Who Reads The American Prospect?

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:37:21 AM EST
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In a glancing justification for the lack of reaction to The American Prospect's publication of Robert Kuttner's February 2010 article American Taliban, Adam Serwer writes:

As for Kuttner's piece, I didn't remember it until it was pointed out to me, but plenty of people write things in this magazine I disagree with. Moulitsas' book is considerably more high-profile.

(Emphasis supplied.) Robert Kuttner is a fairly big cheese in Dem circles in the Beltway. Beyond that, in the initial salvo from TAPPED on the subject, Jamelle Bouie wrote:

Now, to be sure, American Taliban is clearly meant for activist consumption. Unlike myself, Moulitsas isn't a journalist, and his job isn't to be an honest broker for ideas; no, it's to rally progressives and score points against conservatives.

(Emphasis supplied.) Now Bouie and Serwer can't have it both ways - either Markos is not their (or Robert Kuttner's) journalistic equal, or he is their "higher profile" superior, with a higher responsibility to be "careful" about his comparisons. Frankly, this continued flailing to justify their strange war against Markos is hard to explain. Having started the fight, they seem unable to extricate themselves from it. Here's a suggestion for them - let it go.

Speaking for me only

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Who Reads The American Prospect? | 46 comments (46 topical)

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Like others, I found this statement notable: (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by esmense on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 11:30:55 AM EST

"Now, to be sure, American Taliban is clearly meant for activist consumption. Unlike myself, Moulitsas isn't a journalist, and his job isn't to be an honest broker for ideas; no, it's to rally progressives and score points against conservatives."

It made me wonder if the "moderate, centrist" insiders vs. "progressive" "grassroots" conflict really isn't just flat out emotional class bias and snobbery parading as reasoned ideological differences and concerns?

I mean, isn't what he is really saying is "Unlike myself" Moulitsas doesn't have the correct Ivy League credentials and elite connects?

Class bias? (none / 0) (#34)
by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 02:24:37 PM EST

Somebody who can commit the abuse of the English language "unlike myself" is putting himself somehow above others in class and erudition?

ROTFLMAO.


Hey, I could easily put something (none / 0) (#40)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 04:14:19 PM EST

like that into type.....oh yeah, I forget that I'm Yankee white trash :)


: Sure, but you're not (5.00 / 1) (#44)
by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 06:20:32 PM EST

writing for a very prestigious national magazine and putting yourself out there as some sort of elite, superior intellectual.
That kind of screeching language error embedded deeply in pomposity and condescension makes me absolutely crazy.
And I really doubt you would ever say or write something as crudely wrong as "like myself."

So...calling oneself a journalist (5.00 / 3) (#16)
by Anne on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:11:30 PM EST

automatically elevates one to honest broker status?

Who knew?

I'm hearing, "oh, what do you know, you're just a dirty-hippie-activist with a cause...I, on the other hand, am a jouuuurnalisssst which means I am objective and have no axe to grind - so what if no one notices the details I don't include, or that I lead people to the conclusions I want them to reach - that's just editing, silly..."

Spare me from people like this, please.

: I love Anne (none / 0) (#18)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:16:53 PM EST

just right to the heart of the matter with the honesty brokers :)

Just rolling on the floor laughing (none / 0) (#1)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:50:20 AM EST

They are sort like arguing with teenagers though.

oops...forgot my "of"...again (none / 0) (#2)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:51:02 AM EST

Where does the "of" belong? (none / 0) (#6)
by oculus on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 10:52:49 AM EST

Confusing.


: sort of like arguing with a teenager (none / 0) (#10)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 11:22:48 AM EST

Well (none / 0) (#3)
by lilburro on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 10:31:02 AM EST

as you say in your comment on the article, the American Prospect must be "low-profile." That is clearly the only problem they have with Markos, that he is loud. You will never enter Versailles if you raise your voice! It is the same attitude you hear from Kevin Drum.

This is also weird:

As for Kuttner's piece, I didn't remember it until it was pointed out to me, but plenty of people write things in this magazine I disagree with. Moulitsas' book is considerably more high-profile.
So let's look at Markos' argument,

He doesn't even bother to distinguish Kuttner from Markos, or take on Kuttner AND Markos. I would like to see Kuttner weigh in on this, or see Serwer argue against his own editor. Better than to just ignore the apparent inhouse disagreement.

Also, Kuttner makes a great point by even mentioning Rick Warren. Remember the whole Uganda anti-gay bill? Was that "Taliban" enough for you? But as Jeffrey Goldberg writes:

Andrew highlights the vicious homophobia of Pastor Rick Warren's main ally in Uganda, a minister named Thomas Ssempa who burns condoms and seems ready to burn gays as well. I know Rick Warren fairly well, and though we disagree on some issues, he's a good man who does good deeds across the planet, and it seems that he should be teaching Ssempa the error of his ways. I've e-mailed Rick to see what he has to say about Ssempa's homophobia. [emphasis supplied]

It's a Beltway thing.

: This (none / 0) (#5)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 10:44:06 AM EST

"He doesn't even bother to distinguish Kuttner from Markos, or take on Kuttner AND Markos. I would like to see Kuttner weigh in on this, or see Serwer argue against his own editor. Better than to just ignore the apparent inhouse disagreement."

I found this to be interesting (none / 0) (#4)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 10:37:17 AM EST

So if I understand correctly, the writer is saying that some people involved in the public debate doesn't have to be honest because that isn't their job.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Not being an honest broker of ideas is more like (none / 0) (#9)
by Harry Saxon on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 11:19:02 AM EST

Freddy Barnes, Fox News Commentator and recipient of Republican money, which fact somehow FNC doesn't feel is important enough to inform their viewers, from Media Matters:

Revelations that Weekly Standard Executive Editor Fred Barnes had taken money from local branches of the Republican Party -- which followed his recent criticism of JournoList as an "online clique of liberal journalists" -- drew sharp critiques from numerous journalism ethics experts and news veterans.
Longtime news ethicists said both his GOP income and his hypocrisy for criticizing others for alleged political leanings are improper.
"Fred Barnes is unwise in his criticism of other journalists given his own actions. It is disingenuous for him to chastise journalists he characterizes as members of a liberal team, thereby questioning their professional integrity, when he, himself, has been paid for speaking to partisan political groups," said Bob Steele, a longtime ethics instructor at The Poynter Institute. "Barnes is, in essence, wearing the jersey of those Republican teams. That alone raises questions about his journalistic independence. It certainly undermines his credibility as a critic of other journalists."

Click Me

So, Kos is dishonest because of the way you interpret a passage in an essay, the way a preacher interprets John, chapter 11 to mean he could go to Fiji using the congregations building fund to finance his trip.

Fascinating.


Nope (none / 0) (#15)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:01:11 PM EST

I think Bouie's point is a little deeper.

What he said:

Now, it's true that certain tendencies on the American right have analogues in fundamentalist Islam; for example, and as Moulitsas points out in his chapter on sex, right-wing conservatives share a hatred of pornography with fundamentalist Iranian authorities. Of course the similarities end there; conservatives boycott pornography, Iran punishes it with death.
But, this gets to the huge, glaring problem with American Taliban; ultimately, any similarities are vastly outweighed by incredibly important distinctions and vast differences of degree. I'm no fan of the right wing, but the only possible way it can be "indistinguishable" from the Taliban is if conservatives are stoning women for adultery, stalking elementary schools to throw acid in girls' faces, and generally enforcing fundamentalist religious law with torture and wanton violence. The chapter on women becomes a joke when you realize that Moulitsas can't distinguish between the odiousness of right-wing sexism and the vicious amorality of permanently disfiguring "immodest" women. Likewise, there are magnitudes of difference between executing gays (the Taliban) and opposing a hate-crimes bill (Republicans).

Except he fails to explain (none / 0) (#20)
by Harry Saxon on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:32:43 PM EST

why it was alright when the term was used by writers for the American Prospect in the first place.

If it is wrong to use that term now, then it was also wrong for them to do so then, and their lack of self-reflection is a glaring omission to the question at hand.


Essentially, this is coming down to, (5.00 / 2) (#29)
by Anne on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 01:18:24 PM EST

"I can use that term because I am a journalist, a man of ideas - you can't, because you are a dirty-f'in activist just trying to make trouble."

I haven't read Markos' book, but when I hear the term "American Taliban," I don't assume that it means that conservatives in this country are stoning people and flinging acid, as they do in the Middle East, but that conservatives exhibit an equivalent intolerant, repressive, doctrinaire, my-way-or-the-highway mindset and agenda that is saturated with religious overtones, and who are equally determined not to yield in their mission.

I thought that was obvious.

If the journalists at the American Prospect want to have an intelligent discussion about this or any book, they first need to be honest about their own history with the term in question.

I thought that was obvious, too.


: Markos the activist (5.00 / 1) (#41)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 04:15:23 PM EST

That is fricken too funny.

I guess the "term" (none / 0) (#26)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:53:57 PM EST

is The American Taliban... And the others may have erred.

My point was that you compare a minister stealing with stoning, gay hanging, etc.

The wrongness of the comparisons is obvious.


Rick Warren (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by lilburro on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 01:08:50 PM EST

has supported this guy:

With safe sex advocates on the run, Warren and Ssempa trained their sights on another social evil. In August 2007, Ssempa led hundreds of his followers through the streets of Kampala to demand that the government mete out harsh punishments against gays. "Arrest all homos," read placards. And: "A man cannot marry a man." Ssempa continued his crusade online, publishing the names of Ugandan gay rights activists on a website he created, along with photos and home addresses. "Homosexual promoters," he called them, suggesting they intended to seduce Uganda's children into their lifestyle. Soon afterwards, two of President Yoweri Museveni's top officials demanded the arrest of the gay activists named by Ssempa. Terrified, the activists immediately into hiding.

oops (none / 0) (#28)
by lilburro on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 01:09:13 PM EST

left out the source of the quote.


: Sounds to me like (none / 0) (#38)
by Harry Saxon on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 03:46:24 PM EST

generally enforcing fundamentalist religious law with torture and wanton violence.
at work.

That is quite droll (none / 0) (#30)
by Harry Saxon on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 01:20:48 PM EST

and you didn't get the point, I was comparing your interpretation of the passage to that of the thieving minister.

And the others may have erred.

Then why don't they say so? "Tell the truth and shame the Devil."

Of course, comparing an American minister, even a thieving one, to the Taliban, that's almost as silly as saying that the leader of the Free World thinks like a member of an African tribe-based society.

From that well-know Communist/Socialist/Islamofascist publication, the Christian Science Monitor:

Andy Card, the former White House chief of staff under George W. Bush, said in an MSNBC video Monday morning that the comments could hurt Republicans up for election in November. "I don't think the statements that Newt Gingrich made are helpful, no," he said, when pressed.
Obama Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, meanwhile, says the comments leave him confused.
"I don't even have ... the slightest idea what he's talking about," he told George Stephanopoulos on ABC's Good Morning America. Gingrich is "trying to appeal to the fringe of people who don't think the president was born in this country," he added.
Gingrich's comments came in reference to a Forbes article by conservative Dinesh D'Souza, which suggests that the president shares an anticolonial ideology with his father, a Luo tribesman from Kenya who Obama barely knew.
"What if [Obama] is so outside our comprehension, that only if you understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior, can you begin to piece together [his actions]?" Gingrich told the Review, adding that "this is a person who is fundamentally out of touch with how the world works, who happened to have played a wonderful con, as a result of which he is now president."

Click Me


I got your poin (none / 0) (#35)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 02:31:03 PM EST

But it appears you missed Bouie's.


: No, I just don't think Bouie has one. (none / 0) (#37)
by Harry Saxon on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 03:44:49 PM EST

No, he's saying that some people ... (none / 0) (#39)
by Yman on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 03:56:27 PM EST

... involved in public debates do not function as journalists should (i.e. '"honest brokers" of ideas'). He's merely pointing out that, apart from making money, they function primarily to rally activists to a particular position rather than acting as impartial/objective dispensers of information. Much like virtually anyone on talk radio, Fox News, etc. He's not saying they have the right to be dishonest.

But now that you mention it ...


Once again (5.00 / 1) (#42)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 04:18:03 PM EST

Markos rallying activists? He usually invites the staunchest activists to start their own damned website :)


: Yeah, I get'cha (none / 0) (#47)
by Yman on Wed Sep 22, 2010 at 11:51:56 AM EST

I wasn't thinking of Markos in particular. Personally, I think he's focused on the first of those objectives. :)

In the final analysis, does it really (none / 0) (#7)
by oculus on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 10:53:39 AM EST

matter?

No (none / 0) (#8)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 11:16:52 AM EST

Nor did it matter in the preliminary analysis.


It does to me (none / 0) (#11)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 11:27:24 AM EST

Understand though....where I live, it feels like I live under American Taliban rule :) If those who are so offended by the term American Taliban came on down here to Helmand erm...Southern United States, and the beating heart of the Conservative movement perhaps they could better grasp :)


MT (none / 0) (#14)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 11:58:33 AM EST

You make Bouie's point very well.

Thanks


How so Jim? (none / 0) (#17)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:14:53 PM EST

Read Bouie's article (none / 0) (#21)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:46:00 PM EST

I did (none / 0) (#22)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:47:01 PM EST

How so?


Read your own at 10:27 (none / 0) (#45)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 10:06:06 PM EST

: I agree (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by glanton on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 10:12:54 PM EST

That the comparison is totally inappropriate. That however isn't saying much for the social conservatives in the United States, is it? "Hey, you're a lot better than the Taliban!"

How about American Calibans (none / 0) (#23)
by jondee on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:48:37 PM EST

as a compromise? It works just as well, if we're talking about the people in this country who use primitive, tribal forms of religion and morality as a channel for their embrace of irrationality and as a way to give expression to their fearful-hateful impulses.


The Caliban (none / 0) (#25)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:52:15 PM EST

That's who runs the South :)


Caliban, Caliban (none / 0) (#31)
by Harry Saxon on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 01:23:50 PM EST

Tally me bananas.
Daylight come and me want go home.


: day-o, I said day-o.. (none / 0) (#32)
by jondee on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 02:11:10 PM EST

There's south (none / 0) (#36)
by the capstan on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 02:44:32 PM EST

and South. Those malcontent knitters and gun-toters in Appalachia often don't line up behind either set of 'leaders.'


: This is true (none / 0) (#43)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 04:23:19 PM EST

Some of the new fangled hillbilly environmentalists are a surprise. I am living in a sector of very privileged South. A lot of neighborhood has made it into this neighborhood by starting businesses that serve this Army post mostly too. Making money off of big government :) But I'll bet you about half of them drink tea with the movement too. Completely unknowingly conflicted, yet totally oblivious to the facts.

This is when we get to say (none / 0) (#12)
by lilburro on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 11:29:19 AM EST

"circular firing squad!!!"


Maybe it does matter. My high (5.00 / 0) (#19)
by oculus on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:25:15 PM EST

school class newsletter editor solicited essays on "How I Spent My Summer Vacation." One guy wrote a teapartyesque screed extolling Beck's rally and the need to reduce the federal deficit whilst maintaing our nation's security. Guy and his wife have to be eligible for both Medicare and Social Security.


: Bleh! (5.00 / 0) (#24)
by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 12:50:09 PM EST

cough....sputter....cough.....yack :) That's alright, I'm certain that the President handing out a Medal of Honor less than two hours before this major Defense bill vote is exactly as much of a coincidence as the day that Beck chose to restore somebody's honor :)