Friday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 09:38:18 AM EST
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I got off to a rocky start with my college football picks, going 1-3-1. But the weekend is just starting. I'll have more picks on Saturday.

With regard to the "robust" discussions that sometimes break out in the threads, I am going to ask that they be confined to the Open Threads. They are getting in the way of discussions of the topics of the posts.

This is an Open Thread.

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Friday Morning Open Thread | 51 comments (51 topical)

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Open fighting, mean discourse! (5.00 / 2) (#1)
by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 09:53:02 AM EST

On the other hand, Joshua's referral to Dr. Mosca for his feet is through.....Hoooray!

Yesterday he went for a hearing test, he has always had a slight hearing loss in one ear. We were told it would likely progress and it has, now it is moderate. When he was really little they could not tell us whether his hearing loss was nerve related or conductive. Now they can tell us, and it is conductive. Also, they may be able to fix it. This is incredible. This was not an option when he was born, it was only to be endured. As with so many things, they will likely wait until he is older and the gaps between the bones are wider but they will make an assessment this year. The surgery is so delicate that the ENT told me that you must assist on around a 100 surgeries before you can be considered proficient enough to do it yourself. Joshua is so happy though. The ENT told him he will need to address his deviated septum at some time too but he just shrugged his shoulders to that. Walking out though he told me that he wants them to fix his ear cuz it bothers him. He is still the coolest person I know. And the audiologist was really cute, he was so smitten.

Congrats to you and Josh (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:02:05 AM EST

It must make him feel great to know they will be able to fix his hearing at some point. He really does sound like the coolest person I know of!

Parent

things are progressing (5.00 / 2) (#4)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:03:09 AM EST

I am pretty sure he will be pleased

Parent

: Thanks Capt! (none / 0) (#6)
by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:06:55 AM EST

Parent

I agree Josh is really cool (5.00 / 2) (#10)
by MO Blue on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:26:10 AM EST

His ability to focus on what can be fixed and find happiness in it is a rare gift.

Parent

: Truer words . . . . (none / 0) (#19)
by oculus on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:02:00 AM EST

Parent

I glad that settled (none / 0) (#2)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 09:59:47 AM EST

Stephen Hawking: God didn't create universe

There you have it! (none / 0) (#5)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:04:05 AM EST

case closed.

Next question?

Saw a brief article on that this morning. I'm going to read his new book. I like the short explanation - Basically, it's just the way the universe is.

Parent

you know (none / 0) (#7)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:09:44 AM EST

I think the hectic rush to ignorance we see all around us is I think in some ways a reaction to the fact that we are on the brink, with the LHC, of proving some of these things. like the existence of extra dimensions. before that can happen we have a system in place to discount all this book larning stuff.

Parent

Well Hawking's latest (none / 0) (#14)
by brodie on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:49:04 AM EST

though it seems a little too neat and convenient -- a multitude of universes -- is at least an improvement over his silly remarks earlier this year about evil aliens and how humans should be trying to avoid them, etc.

But as for theories about how this particular universe began or was created, I care very little about such things, given our current dicey earthly circumstances in the established space-time dimensions. With all the major threats right now to this planet by anthropogenic activity in the industrial age, plus overpopulation and abuse of natural resources, I'm much more interested in hearing scientists discuss those threats and how we can rescue ourselves in the time left.

Parent

IMO (none / 0) (#15)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:53:58 AM EST

Hawking had a great point about Voyager.

it was an invitation to dinner with directions.

I still think we may regret that.

Parent

and I feel that I have some (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:55:16 AM EST

expertise in this area having spent the last 20 years or so making brain eating aliens for a living.

Parent

: Are you worried about gamers (none / 0) (#20)
by oculus on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:04:00 AM EST

choosing to be the Taliban?

Parent

Nah, pretty silly (none / 0) (#22)
by brodie on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:09:18 AM EST

and he seems to be assuming technologically advanced aliens would only represent the dark amoral side of our own natures. Curiously narrow way of looking at things, and overly fearful.

Plus I suspect he's just plain ignorant of the intriguing evidence brought forth in the past 30-40 yrs about alien contact/visitation of this planet. But for a number of mainstream scientists, this is all still taboo, and they find it much safer to advocate a noncontroversial "they're probably out there somewhere, just not here" position that keeps them in good standing with the official scientific bodies and which keeps the federal funding coming in ...

Parent

ever read (none / 0) (#23)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:28:19 AM EST

Watership Down?

Parent

meaning maybe they were here (none / 0) (#24)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:31:18 AM EST

and are coming back. now that our numbers have exploded and we are nice and plump.

Parent

Haven't read it, (none / 0) (#25)
by brodie on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:40:35 AM EST

but it sounds like the kind of narrow and overly grim outlook that Hawking reflects.

I suspect the alien phenomena is multi-faceted, with several groups "taking an interest" in this planet and its inhabitants, for various reasons good bad and indifferent. Very complicated situation with no easy answers, but for me long ago I concluded there was sufficient there there in that 10% of never-debunked material.

Parent

you know what? (none / 0) (#26)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:47:25 AM EST

I agree with you. but I dont really buy the alien stuff. IMO evidence of a lost civilization far more ancient than previously thought is there and mounting.

but I dont buy them being influenced by aliens.

Parent

Well, you have some (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by brodie on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:03:56 PM EST

intriguing evidence from the ancient Dogon tribe of Mali (Timbukto) re ancient alien contact, as well as the ancient Sumerians and Egyptians, and all that worldwide pyramid and megalith building showing so much advanced engineering capability so long ago. It is a puzzle, but the traditional explanations don't hold water and are usually very limited in their scope and don't take account of the overall picture planet-wide, so I long ago dismissed those as mere safe academic theorizing within acceptable narrow bounds.

As you may know, in the 60s or 70s, the late ufo debunker extraordinaire Carl Sagan, while dismissing contemporary alien contact, did allow much more for the possibility of ancient alien contact which, in his view, could have jump started civilization on this planet. Me, I tend to think it happened, and that also they never went away.

Parent

I always thought (none / 0) (#35)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:15:18 PM EST

there might be something to the abduction stories but not the CW. the amazing thing is how similar stories are throughout history in different cultures.
faries, elves, leprechauns and on and on who all kidnap people for their own purposes. I read something a long time ago that compared the really old stories to the new ones. the similarity to abduction stories (which is IMO our current mythology) are stunning.

but I think aliens from another planet is to easy and simple. IMO they might just as likely be from another time. or another universe. or another dimension. or they could be something for which we do not even have a concept. so we make stuff up to explain it.

I read about the first contact with primitive people in the last century. the things they made up about the white people were great.
like, obviously they can not go to the bathroom. the stuff they wear would make that impossible.

Parent

: The French ufo (none / 0) (#46)
by brodie on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 03:04:32 PM EST

researcher Jacques Vallee (the Francois Truffaut character in Close Encounters) has written about the similarities between all those reports of alien abduction (rather big wave of such reports in the 1990s, but kinda quiet since) and the curious encounters with strange beings of yesteryear you cite. He's also argued in favor of expanding what the entire ufo phenomena might entail, including the hypotheses you list.
Ultimately though, he doesn't put all modern ufo reports in that same fanciful or fantasy category as faeries and elves, nor could he easily, since he (with his mother) was an eyewitness to a fairly long-duration ufo sighting back in his teens in France.
As I understand it, as to some of the cases where he's interviewed contactees or gone over their physical/photo evidence carefully (e.g., the one-armed Swiss villager Billy Meier with the remarkable photos and film) he has reported favorably as to their credibility.
Other respected researchers like the dean of ufology Stan Friedman, take a narrower, more conservative nuts and bolts approach and want to know, basically, what could be taken into a courtroom as solid evidence towards proving a case of extraterrestrial visitation, and they don't often get into non-traditional notions of hidden dimensions and multiverses and the like.
Both types of researchers bring something of value to this area of study.

Parent

coming back (none / 0) (#53)
by weltec2 on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 09:54:29 PM EST

for our bunnies?

Parent

Hawking's main premise is not (none / 0) (#9)
by Dr Molly on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:25:49 AM EST

unique or new, but it is so elegant and lovely that it bears frequent repetition:

in such a universe [i.e, one with our laws of physics], something not only can, but must, arise from nothing.

Therefore, there's no need to explain it with a god.

Love it.

Parent

Is there ever a "nothing"? (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by jondee on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:00:03 PM EST

in the sense of a complete and utter vacuum devoid of energy, and, or, matter?

We come up against the limitations of language and our pedestrian frames of reference when discussing these things..

And pantheists are always still safe..

"..banking and filling, appearing and disappearing,
I tread day and night such roads.
I visit the orchards of spheres and
look at the product,
And look at quintillions ripened
And look at quintillions green.." Old Walt..

Parent

I don't know dude. (none / 0) (#30)
by Dr Molly on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:16:40 PM EST

Is there ever a "nothing"? (none / 0) (#27)
by jondee on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:00:03 PM EST
in the sense of a complete and utter vacuum devoid of energy, and, or, matter?

But I'm a big fan of data and evidence personally, and all the accumulated evidence so far supports the laws of physics and the big bang. So, yeah, maybe once there was a nothing. Which is difficult for us to comprehend.

Beyond those basics, I'm also a big fan of "Militant Agnostic - I Don't Know and Neither Do You" :)

Beautiful poem.

Parent

The Big Bang, or some event (none / 0) (#32)
by jondee on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:39:32 PM EST

very similar to it, is discussed in the Upanishads and in the Jewish mystical tradition. Though, where they got their data and evidence is anyone's guess.

Maybe them space alien fellers gave it to 'em..:)

Parent

I recall some of that from readings (none / 0) (#33)
by Dr Molly on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:46:44 PM EST

long ago (upanishads, brahman). IIRC, those musings on origins of the universe were still rooted, though, in materialism and intentionality, i.e., a creator and a will bring being from nothing. Pretty different from modern big bang theory, which relies mainly on physical laws of matter and energy?

Oh, we are getting too deep here for me...

Parent

Well it wasn't from "nothing" (none / 0) (#34)
by jondee on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:04:35 PM EST

in the Hindu tradition, all the matter and energy is encapsulated in a sort of primal seed, "bindu", I believe is the word.. before the great cosmic expansion-explosion ..there's no real reference to Brahma "doing it" from outside creation..In the Jewish tradition the primal seed is the letter yod, which is the smallest letter in the Hebrew alphabet..followed by a similar tremendous cosmic expansion-coming into being..

Fascinating stuff.

Parent

Yes, it is. (none / 0) (#36)
by Dr Molly on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:21:01 PM EST

That's what I meant by rooted in materialism and causality - still going back to an all-containing source (the primal seed), so still rooted in an ultimate 'something from something' not 'something from nothing'. This concept reappears frequently - aristotle, lamarck, etc.

For example, the Lamarckian view of evolution (in contrast to the Darwinian view) - and the homunculus, a miniature fully formed human within the egg or sperm.

Being and Becoming - goes back to the first philosophers and naturalists and we still struggle with it...

Parent

the really cool thing (none / 0) (#37)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:37:07 PM EST

is that the stuff they are finding out now, empirical data stuff, is way more weird and exciting than any fiction.

what exactly do we do when we know for sure that our universe is a bubble floating in an infinite ocean of other bubbles called the bulk.

Parent

: i've always felt (none / 0) (#39)
by Dr Molly on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:45:25 PM EST

that
empirical data stuff, is way more weird and exciting than any fiction.
That's what make science so much fun.
Discovery and data - not just for geeks. I wish we could convince more kids (shoot, more americans in general) to love science and not be afraid of it.

Parent
: We do what we've always done... (none / 0) (#43)
by kdog on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 02:54:56 PM EST

we live until we know for sure that the bulk is a piece of lint in the Jolly Green Giant's navel...then we panic:)
It's certainly fascinating stuff to ponder...but I never really understood this insatiable need to understand such heavy stuff...I'm here, I think therefore I am, and that's all I need to know...enjoy it while it lasts. Masterful knowledge of our world, yeah...but the universe?
This need to understand things well beyond our comprehension is a dangerous thing...it's what brought us religion, human sacrifice for bountiful crops, and assorted nonsense.

Parent

I have a feeling you might like this blog (none / 0) (#11)
by Dr Molly on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:29:02 AM EST

by a philosopher and skeptic. It's called Rationally Speaking.

Parent

: yep (none / 0) (#12)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:36:38 AM EST

been there before
:-)

Parent

Pillars of Heaven Finale (none / 0) (#8)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:15:32 AM EST

anyone besides me see this? what did ya think?
I thought it was cinematically great. great finish.
but
the whole all the good guys go off into the sunset and all the bad guys get what coming to them just didnt seem to ring as true to me as the rest of the series?

: I did see it (none / 0) (#38)
by ruffian on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:39:06 PM EST

Came in kind of midway through the season, but was able to pick it up.
I too thought the end was a little neat and tidy, but great entertainment. It ended just in time htough - Ian McShane's hair-do was starting to haunt my dreams.

Parent
: "Heaven" or "Earth"? (none / 0) (#51)
by oculus on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 12:30:34 AM EST

Parent

movie news (none / 0) (#13)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:43:09 AM EST

this is cool

The last time we had a check-in on Selma, the civil rights picture director Lee Daniels (last years Precious) spent much of 2010 preparing to make, financing was an issue. The director had a script and a cast (Hugh Jackman, Liam Neeson, David Oyelowo, Robert De Niro, Cedric the Entertainer) but money was a problem.
Then he was signed to rewrite and direct The Butler, and it seemed like Selma might go away. But, as it turns out, the financing for Selma is now in place. And so, having two civil rights-themed films set up, Daniels is faced with a choice: Selma, or The Butler?
Despite the fact that he did a lot of work to line up the Selma cast -- actors who've waited through this year to work with him, and who likely agreed to take relatively little money for the effort -- it sounds like The Butler is going to be the film.

`The Butler' is a story very near and dear to my heart, about a butler (Eugene Allen) who has lived with six or seven Presidents....This guy went from picking cotton to Eisenhower to today. It's our `Gone With the Wind,' and it's my `Gone With the Wind.' It's my `Forrest Gump.' We've never seen the world from an African American's eyes, pre-Civil Rights to today.

this isnt

Who Will Star in `At the Mountains of Madness'? Studio Wants James McAvoy, Guillermo del Toro Wants...Tom Cruise?

say it aint so Guillermo.

My hope is Cthulhu (none / 0) (#17)
by jeffinalabama on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:56:21 AM EST

plays himself, and Yog-Sosoth makes at least a cameo.

When was the last time Cthulhu had screenwork? Vastly underrated, IMHO.

Parent

From what I've heard, he's 'difficult'. (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by EL seattle on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 05:43:52 PM EST

When he's on the set, he sulks in his trailer all day, drinking constantly.

The rumor I've heard is that he was all signed and set to play the lead on John Carpenter's "The Thing" but never showed up on time or even half-sober. (The dude didn't even have any lines as such, but it took at least a dozen takes to get him to generate a single aura of eldritch horror that was even slightkly hateful.) That's why they called in the shoggoth to replace him.

Parent

from our internal newsgroups (none / 0) (#18)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:59:35 AM EST

You're upset because del Toro wants to cast a crazy person in a movie
about madness and insanity? Or perhaps it's because he's a member of a
cult in a movie about a cult? I think it's fantastic casting, personally

.

Parent

: Wouldn't have to reach very far (none / 0) (#21)
by jeffinalabama on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:07:37 AM EST

would he?

Parent

I'm tellin' ya, Sid (none / 0) (#31)
by jondee on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:18:36 PM EST

that Cruise kid is box office dynamite..Run that idea up the flag pole and watch "the money" salute!

Parent

Meanwhile, Brendan Fraser is to make (none / 0) (#40)
by oculus on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 02:27:42 PM EST

his debut on Broadway. See NYT. With Richard Easton.

Parent

Oh, my. I'd pay to see that (none / 0) (#44)
by Cream City on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 02:56:38 PM EST

as he is the sort of wonderfully quirky actor on the screen whose talents would translate well to the stage, I think. So I am making a note of this for our next trek to an NYC conference, I hope . . . dependent upon yet more budget cuts coming -- not to work travel budgets, which already are gone but to even more personal travel budgets, with more pay cuts on the way, sigh. But if I've got the bucks, I'd get in line for hours at Times Square for tickets to see him in person, a natural clown.

Parent

I'll be there in mid-Dec. and have a (none / 0) (#45)
by oculus on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 02:59:18 PM EST

couple unfilled time slots. Waiting to see if "Mrs. Warren's Profession," with Cherry Jones, will be extended through Dec.

Parent

If I hit Broadway... (none / 0) (#47)
by kdog on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 03:11:23 PM EST

I'm seeing Fela!...Fela Kuti was the man...anybody seen the show?

Parent

: A very good friend saw it--on a half/price (none / 0) (#48)
by oculus on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 04:58:17 PM EST

booth ticket no less. She really enjoyed the show.

Parent

Agree re "Gods and Monsters." (none / 0) (#52)
by oculus on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 12:31:38 AM EST

Loved the really silly "Encino Man" and the preview for "Blast From the Past."

Parent

purdue (none / 0) (#41)
by jharp on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 02:35:51 PM EST

I noticed your rocky start.

One week does not make a good or bad handicapper.

You are a good one.

I like Purdue Saturday. They are getting 11 and they will score, probably a lot. And if they score two TDs it takes 4 to beat them.

Granted their defense sucks. But so does Notre Dames.

hawaii (none / 0) (#42)
by jharp on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 02:37:58 PM EST

I watched the game on TV.

And that was a pretty gutsy performance by Hawaii. A break here or there could have changed things a lot.

Friday Morning Open Thread | 51 comments (51 topical)

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