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Labor Day Weekend: Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Colorado News
Posted on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 12:48:00 AM EST
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The weather in Aspen could not be better. It's sunny, the air is crisp, the scenery picture-perfect. There was zero traffic driving up yesterday afternoon. Today the crowds will begin arriving.

Jazz Aspen Snowmass kicks off tonight with Wilco. The remaing nights:

Glenn Frey and Joe Walsh of the Eagles will headline Saturday at 7:15 p.m., and Martie Maguire and Emily Robison of the Dixie Chicks have formed their own side group — the Court Yard Hounds — which will open for the Eagles duo at 5 p.m.

Sunday: Leonard Skynyrd and the Black Crowes.

The peacocks are still sleeping here at Owl Farm, and so far, the only thing on the agenda is a hike.

Wishing everyone a safe and happy holiday weekend, my posting will be light. Let us know your plans. This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Labor Day Weekend: Open Thread | 80 comments (80 topical)

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    I just (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:12:34 PM EST
    wanted to commend BTD for the excellent posts he's been putting up lately. Too bad I have been so busy working that I haven't had much time to read them much over the last few months.

    +1 (none / 0) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:20:41 PM EST
    he has been busy.

    Parent
    Not to mention temporal role of (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:54:34 PM EST
    meta-monitor.

    Parent
    A "feel good" story about a very (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:15:49 PM EST
    persistent South Korean woman who finally passed the written driver test:  NYT

    feels like fall here (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:50:00 AM EST
    its excellent.

    96 degrees here today (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 04:40:08 PM EST
    Bleh

    Parent
    90 up in Vermont (none / 0) (#21)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:51:33 PM EST
    Now it's a decent 80-something, but 90 percent plus humidity, so it feels even worse.

    Parent
    The Abnormal Width of Normal Heights (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:50:41 AM EST
    The memoir blog will be refreshed soon. Too much daddy daycare work over the summer. Have a peaceful, joyful weekend y'all.

    So catch up... (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:54:05 AM EST
    ...before i finish this book, which should be in the next few installments. Maybe another 20,000 words.

    Parent
    Jeralyn, it sounds perfect. (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:53:50 AM EST
    Ron Powers, in his bio of Mark Twain, opines Twain was the master of description, but soon photography, film, and TV would supplant this skill.  Not so.  Enjoy.

    See The Crowes if you can.... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:08:38 PM EST
    one of the best live bands out there, always a great show...and this is their farewell tour before they go on hiatus for the foreseeable future.

    Not much on tap for the weekend (none / 0) (#6)
    by jbindc on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:22:47 PM EST
    Watching lots of football!

    Tonight however, my sister and I will be in the Smithsonian Scultpture Garden, listening to jazz and drinking sangria.

    Same here... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:26:59 PM EST
    self-imposed hermitude back in full effect...might trek down to the beach tonight to sit in awe of Mother Nature and Hurricane Earl, conditions permitting...other than that, taking it easy this Labor Day...so drink some Sangria for me and don't forget to eat the fruit:)

    Parent
    Jerry Jeff Walker (none / 0) (#51)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 02:23:19 PM EST
    I love Sangria wine...

    Parent
    LaborFest! (none / 0) (#8)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:29:55 PM EST
    is in our plans as usual.  It starts with a hoot of a parade, lots of pols like Feingold -- and this year including President Obama.

    Looks like Wisconsin is back to being the most purple state; this is something like Obama's fifth visit in recent weeks.  

    Will it work?  Depends upon whether there is work for many Wisconsinites who need real labor days . . . as the unemployment rate just went up yet again.

    I just read somewhere today (none / 0) (#9)
    by jbindc on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:43:30 PM EST
    That Feingold is deliberately not going to be there when Obama is there.  Have you heard the same?

    Parent
    I think not, as it's that (none / 0) (#11)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:14:55 PM EST
    Feingold already has his own speaking commitments on Labor Day -- as does any Dem pol in this state, if up for re-election.

    And I tend to believe his office, as he certainly has been happy to be at Obama's side in other recent visits to the state, as local media are reporting -- a lot.  Looks like a rumor started by local rightie blogs.


    Parent

    Sure, but (none / 0) (#92)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 07, 2010 at 08:27:11 AM EST
    In politics, that's not how it works.  I know several schedulers on the Hill, and a close family member who schedules for a high ranking cabinet official.  We were talking about this yesterday, and she said, "Look, I've put together rallies where 10,000 people attended in just two days.  If Feingold wanted to be seen with the prez, and it was politically advantageous for him to do so, his schedule would have been changed in a heartbeat and there would have been no excuse-filled press release."

    It was totally a snub,

    Parent

    To be specific, 1:30-3 p.m. (none / 0) (#12)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:18:17 PM EST
    is when Obama is to be at LaborFest, which is exactly when Feingold is to be in his hometown of Janesville for its Labor Day events.  And now that his home base is Madison, and with southwest Wisconsin also being a base for his opponent, I can believe that Feingold will not diss Janesville.

    Keeping in mind that poor Janesville, a wonderful town, also has been hardest hit by GM closings of any town in this state and, I read, in this country outside of Michigan.  

    Parent

    Nevada: (none / 0) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 01:54:03 PM EST
    Angle 45, Reid 45

    Hey Zorba (none / 0) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 02:01:57 PM EST
    Our Greek festival is this weekend. We are talking about making it a family outing. Also, there is an Fina Art Fair that normally has interesting work on display.

    Excellent! (none / 0) (#39)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 12:50:25 PM EST
    Hope you enjoy the food- leave a review.  Our food festival is the following weekend.  We will be very busy all week cooking.  The baklava is put together and in the freezer, awaiting baking and the addition of the syrup.  Then there's the tzatziki to make, the hummus, the dolmades, the salad dressing, prepping all the vegetables and the feta......I may wind up with Ace bandages and Bengay on every joint by the time it's over.  My body's not as young as it used to be.    ;-)

    Parent
    My Greek friend introducted me to (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:13:09 PM EST
    potatoes w/feta at our local Greek festival.  Yummy.  

    Parent
    You can put feta (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:47:03 PM EST
    on just about anything.  (Well, maybe not dessert.)  I like shrimp with feta (and lots of garlic, butter, olive oil, lemon juice, oregano, red pepper flakes, white wine, tomatoes).  Don't tell my Greek relatives, but for eating straight, I really prefer Bulgarian feta.  For cooking, definitely the Greek.     ;-)

    Parent
    Yum (none / 0) (#47)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:51:08 PM EST
    Watermelon and feta salad

    Parent
    Sounds good to me (none / 0) (#49)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 02:14:25 PM EST
    I might throw a bit of fresh mint in that salad.  And/or perhaps a tiny bit of a good balsamic vinegar, or a balsamic glaze.

    Parent
    Double Yum (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 02:20:17 PM EST
    I can taste it in my minds mouth...

    Parent
    Daughter-in-law did that recipe (none / 0) (#68)
    by Cream City on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 05:32:34 PM EST
    recently, and it was wonderful.  So was another way I never had thought to serve watermelon: grilled!

    Parent
    Dog show (none / 0) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 07:56:54 PM EST


    I just finished slinkerwinks diary (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 08:12:02 PM EST
    at orange about the Obama economic plan.  If that is it, I must take a blog vacation of some kind because I will be literally vomiting rage at that point.  Why do I care?  It isn't as if this family will ever be out of a job, we are part of the military industrial complex forever and we are part of the elite of the elite of that.  My spouse is about to be awarded a giant award too any day.  Why do I care?  Deflation and crawling on the belly for everyone else is probably going to be a good thing for me.  And as long as Al Qaeda has an online magazine in English going by 'Inspire' I'm fricken golden.  There must be an antidepressant out there somewhere that will allow me to not think about anyone else....all the peons who are about to be mown over.  If there isn't one perhaps research and development will quickly find one, because I'm suffering man.  I guess I'm codependent or something cuz I can't stop watching what everyone else is going through or about to go through and I have insurance!  Just numb me and dumb me!  Do it now!  Someone, something....extract my conscience please!

    Parent
    Rattle Snakes (none / 0) (#20)
    by cpresley on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 09:01:30 PM EST
    We are at our place in the mountains of N. Calif. and just killed another rattle snake in our yard. With 3 dogs and the Grandkids comming next weekend does anybody know how to keep them out of a yard? It's fenced, but only with deer fencing.

    Vigilance (none / 0) (#22)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 10:58:32 PM EST
    I suspect is your only recourse.  Fences won't keep snakes out.  I just googled "rattlesnake control" and it popped up something like 58,000 hits, so you might try that and see if you can find any useful advice.  There's apparently no repellent, so it's a question of making the area less hospitable to them-- removing leaf litter, keeping grass well mowed and weeds suppressed, etc.

    I think if I were you, I'd consult a physician/pediatrician ahead of time just in case.  And I'd absolutely keep the dogs restrained.

    Parent

    Thanks for your response (none / 0) (#24)
    by cpresley on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 12:41:50 AM EST
    The fenced area is only about the size of a football field out of 20 acres. The dogs are not allowed out of the fenced area without us there ( I'm paranoid they are not). I will make sure we have the medical card for the grandkids and we know where the nearest hospital is. Winter is great, they go in hiburnation.  

    Parent
    Check in with your local vet also (none / 0) (#25)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 02:44:33 AM EST
    they may have some tips ta boot.

    I do know that there are snake training clinics for dogs. when I thought I was going to be living in the mountains, I thought about taking my dog to one when I got there. may be something to look into for the future.

    with the kids, also training. As a kid growing up in Kern County with tumble weed fields behind our house, we were pretty snake aware, and we used to play in washed out rodent/snake tunnels/pits, lol!~ a lil' education/awareness can go a long way.

    Parent

    Mesh fencing (none / 0) (#26)
    by the capstan on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 10:11:30 AM EST
    I had deer (bird) mesh put on the inside of farm fencing to ensure a very small puppy could not crawl out.  Over the years, 2 snakes have been caught in it--paid to get one out, but the second one strangled itself.

    I just hung the mesh on the wire fencing using garden ties (the green plastic stuff) at the top and fastened it again at the lowest level.  If I were worried about rattlers, I would think about laying the last couple of inches of mesh on the ground, fastened with landscape stakes.

    Even small snakes get caught in the mesh because they don't proceed in a staight line.

    Parent

    Guineafowl have a reputation (none / 0) (#30)
    by Rojas on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 11:06:35 AM EST
    for keeping snakes away. I have no idea if it's well earned or not. Our neighbor had them and they would come over to our place to graze. I enjoyed them. They make quite a bit of noise when they get to cackling so you might decide you prefer the occasional snake.
    Every fall one of the pointer clubs used to hold a desnake clinic for dogs here in Texas. The price was reasonable and all dogs were welcome. I believe they need a refresher course every so often. You might try checking some of the hunting dog forums in your area.


    Parent
    Guineafowl are great for snake proofing (none / 0) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 03:02:28 PM EST
    You can't beat them.  My subdivision does not allow fowl though, or at least when the covenants were in affect they did not allow them and I have not considered pushing the issue.  So many snakes around here too, they just ended up making themselves miserable I think.

    Parent
    Are the dogs with you? (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 03:00:16 PM EST
    The snakes hate the heavy vibration of running dogs.  I live on a lake in Alabama and we have a lot of cottonmouths and copperheads and eastern diamondbacks around the lake.  I did have one get bitten when we first moved in, but this is a dog yard now and we haven't had an episode since.  My neighbor killed four copperheads in her yard when they were landscaping and came over and asked if we had a copperhead problem too, but nope...they hate running dogs.  If they consider your yard their home though you may have a standoff problem though that would require killing them.  This is their mating season too and they are more aggressive and if you have a standoff with one rattlesnake this time of year there is almost always another nearby that is its mate.

    When my Uncle lived in AZ in the country, not in town, they had a lot of rattlesnakes. He would walk the drive to the road every morning before my cousins went to the bus stop and he carried a walking stick and he would thump it heavily on the ground for the same reason.  They hate heavy vibration, it sounds big and dangerous and usually they will clear out.  They hate lawnmowers too.

    Parent

    The dogs (none / 0) (#66)
    by cpresley on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 04:30:15 PM EST
    Yes we have the dogs with us but it was really hot
    yesterday(102)so they spent all day laying around the house.

    We are only up here every other week so maybe the snake got the wrong week to show up. We can't get hens because we are not here all the time to take care of them. There  are to many critters here that would eat them if  left on there own.

    I think we are going to try small mesh chickenwire at the base of the deer fencing. We have it around most of the fence now except for the small area by the propane tank and that is the area we have had all the snakes.

    Thanks for all of the suggestions.

    Parent

    Try this as a snake (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 04:09:10 PM EST
    repellent.

    Pour a 1"-2" line of lime around the area you want to keep the snakes out of. Then sprinkle mouth balls along the line.

    Parent

    Do they really dislike lime? (none / 0) (#88)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 05:24:52 PM EST
    Our lot is heavily wooded, and in the South there can get to be so many layers of decomposing leaves in the wooded areas that I have limed those areas of our yard to speed up decomposition.  Slow humid decomposition is now suspected of increasing ozone and setting off asthma.  May be another reason why we don't have many snakes.

    Parent
    Hey BTD (none / 0) (#23)
    by fiver on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 11:22:57 PM EST
    Thought you might like this diary, I dunno.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/9/4/898959/-Why-I-oppose-filibuster-reform

    Man arrested for carry an Impeach Obama Sign (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 10:19:47 AM EST
    Link

    OK, let me hear it for freedom of speech, right to demonstrate and about police brutality!

    OK (none / 0) (#29)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 10:59:39 AM EST
    Gosh, ppj, I thought you were a private property advocate...
    The fair is on private property, owned by the non-profit Alaska State Fair Inc. If people want to deliver a political message -- on abortion or Pebble Mine, for example -- they're expected to rent a booth and follow vendor guidelines, Phipps said.

    Read more: http://www.adn.com/2010/08/27/1428432/statement-scuffle-caught-on-video.html#ixzz0yZod2gci

    Let me know when you allow people on your lawn with signs that say Stop Islamophobia.

    And here in NYC at the RNC where Giuliani ghools arrested 1000 peaceful protesters on public streets.

    You can thank the right wing and property rights advocates for the extreme police behavior these days. If you are rooting for the LaRouche sign waver, just hope that one of your right wing presidents or politicians were no the ones who appointed the judge who will hear the case...

    Parent

    Perhaps a lawsuit in the sign holder's (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 11:15:52 AM EST
    future:  OK to protest outside "free speech zone" re Cow Palace (owned by ag. district)

    Parent
    RNC Convention (none / 0) (#34)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 11:25:20 AM EST
    The City reportedly refused to release the prisoners until a judge threatened to fine it for every extra hour every prisoner would spend in prison. The victims of the arrests have filed lawsuits against the City of New York.

    Oh and the fair grounds in Alaska do not need to have "free speech zones" as it is private property....

    The fair is on private property, owned by the non-profit Alaska State Fair Inc.

    Read more:

    But there may be mitigating circumstances.... so we will see what the judge has to say.... and as far as a future lawsuit by Mr. Hill, based on the reporting, I do not think he has much of a chance of prevailing.

    Parent

    The event was on private property. (none / 0) (#31)
    by EL seattle on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 11:10:06 AM EST
    At least, according to the local newspaper.

    Contrary to what many believe, the Alaska State Fairgrounds is private property and bringing firearms into the grounds "is not allowed," Remaley said. "It's just like going to Carrs or Fred Meyer, it's private property. ... They apparently wanted him to leave, he wasn't going for that."

    In cases like this, I think taht the private owners are allowed to set and enforce "rules of behavior".

    Parent

    So it was the firearm (none / 0) (#90)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 05:31:24 PM EST


    Parent
    Freedom of speech (none / 0) (#32)
    by waldenpond on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 11:13:48 AM EST
    uh yeah.... it's terrible.   He had two issues though that were going to lead to his being made to leave... first, he came across as mentally unstable by screaming and saying things that get some people 5150'd.  He would have needed a permit to demonstrate which he obviously wasn't doing so his behavior could as easily been disturbing the peace.  Second, his 'sign' was unsafe.  People with items like that (a 2x4? come on) are told to get rid of them the majority of the time.  He needs a plain banner with no hard object attached.

    Parent
    To make benefit top story (none / 0) (#36)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 12:10:10 PM EST
    at Freerepublic-Michele Bachman website..

    Parent
    Very troubling (none / 0) (#89)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 05:29:46 PM EST
    Do we have the whole story on this?  This guy was carrying a firearm too that was confiscated.  Did he threaten anyone?  If he was simply demonstrating I'm troubled by this just as much as anything similar that happened during the Bush Presidency.

    Parent
    I would too, ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 07, 2010 at 10:28:18 AM EST
    ... if Mr. Hill was in a public area and otherwise just peacefully demonstrating.  But based on the news reports and the Fair's inquiry, I think there are several problems with his actions.  First, the Fair is a private, non-profit corp., not a government agency, and the fairgrounds are private property.  They have a set of published rules which prohibits people from displaying signs or banners in areas other than their booths, as well as soliciting or distributing materials while roving the fairgrounds.  They also prohibit firearms on the fairgrounds.  Mr. Hill was initially approached by a Fair employee when he was blocking a walkway by holding his large sign across it.  When she asked him about his intentions, he yelled and called her names and refused to stop or change his behavior, so she called security.  When security showed up, Mr. Hill was shouting, waving his sign, and disrupting a show that was occurring at the plaza.  When they tried to remove him, he wrapped his legs around one of the guards and resisted, which is when they saw the gun and handcuffed him.

    IMO, the Fair was within its rights to remove him for the sign alone (its rules say anyone violating the signs/banners prohibition is subject to immediate removal).  When they tried to ask him about it, he became belligerent and disruptive.  Then he physically resisted.

    YMMV.

    Parent

    There is usually more to these stories :) (none / 0) (#94)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 07, 2010 at 11:42:43 AM EST


    Parent
    Profile of a WH speech writer (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 11:46:21 AM EST
    (not young Mr. Favreau)    LAT

    Good lord (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Dadler on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 12:14:29 PM EST
    Every week he writes a couple of lousy speeches. Give me that gig. Seriously, unless the kid is an undeniable genius, I find it both hilarious and unsettling that someone with maybe ten years of adult experience to draw on (maybe), writes so much of their oratory.

    Kind of a joke.

    Parent

    No wonder (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Cream City on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 12:33:00 PM EST
    that Obama has lost his touch in speechifying.  He needs to go back to Axelrod, who needs to go back to his files for more speeches by his previous clients.

    Parent
    Ouch and cha ching :) (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 05:32:26 PM EST


    Parent
    Santo Domingo Arts & Crafts Fair... (none / 0) (#40)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:04:05 PM EST
    is this weekend. I like to look at the beautiful pottery even tho I can't afford any. I can afford the green chili stew and fry bread.

    Near Santa Fe, no? I do love pottery. (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:14:34 PM EST
    and the opera.  

    Parent
    Yes, south of SF. (none / 0) (#69)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 06:26:26 PM EST


    Parent
    Take A Class (none / 0) (#44)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:21:54 PM EST
    And make your own pottery...  fun and utile..  and much less expensive than buying someone else's product of pleasure..

    Being creative with hands in mud is very therapeutic as well, imo.

    Parent

    Great advice. I did that... (none / 0) (#48)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 02:13:59 PM EST
    I took a couple of classes with my daughter. It brought us closer together. So I would only amend your advice to - take a class with someone you love.  Alas I didn't have the skill, as all my stuff looked like a child made it. But it was still worth it.

    Parent
    Good Advice (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 06:27:41 PM EST
    And as for stuff that looks like a child did it.... practice makes perfect, and after you gain skill you try to get back to the place where it looked like a child did it... lol

    Parent
    Nice Takedown (none / 0) (#45)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:30:03 PM EST
    Either the center-left political position has shifted waaaaaay to the right or Dana Milbank has lost all perspective from eating too many DC Cocktail weenies...

    digby shines a light on the situation:

    Meet your new self proclaimed "left of center" op-ed columnist for the Village Post:

    If the [cat food] commission does its job right, it will recommend cuts across the government -- the Pentagon, social programs, entitlements, veterans' benefits -- as well as tax increases. That's the only way to solve the debt mess. Special-interest groups on the left and right, the real sucklings at the public teat, don't want this to happen -- so they derailed the effort in Congress to name a commission and now want to discredit Obama's version.....

    ...The folksy and salty Simpson, who turned 79 years old on Thursday and stands 79 inches tall, has long been one of my favorites in politics.

    And he really does think of himself as left of center....

    Yes (none / 0) (#65)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 04:25:55 PM EST
    But if you are interested in renting here is some info.

    And if you want to know the whole sordid history of privatization of Alaskan land, here it is. The short version is people bought the land, formed a non-profit corporation, and continued to purchase land as needed...

    Alaska State Fair, Inc. "Fair" is a private non-profit corporation with principal offices in Palmer, Alaska. The Fair leases space for the exhibition, sale and distribution of products, services, information, and other items. Lease agreements define the use and occupancy of certain small spaces of Fair's real property located on the fairgrounds and referred to as "spaces". Any company, partnership, institution, or individual over 18 years of age may apply for a space.....

    The Fair is private property. All solicitations for either contributions or sale must be made from within the confines of the booth display area that has been leased from the Alaska State Fair. Begging or soliciting is prohibited. Tacking or posting of any advertisement, bill, sign, banner or printed matter other than within the contracted space is prohibited. No one shall be allowed to solicit or distribute materials in aisles, or while roving on the grounds. Anyone violating this rule is subject to immediate removal from the Fairgrounds.

    Rules

    Pruneyard Shopping Center v. (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 07:57:05 PM EST
    Robins  SCOTUS

    Parent
    Horsenips (none / 0) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 10:12:35 PM EST
    These "non-profits" are always put together at the taxpayer's expense. You can say otherwise until the cows come home and it doesn't change the facts. I mean everyone understands that some politician's back is being scratched, usually at the taxpayer's expense.

    So calling it "private" is like calling baseball teams "private." Think of the public fields, tax breaks, etc., etc.

    Or just look at AARP. Supposedly a non-profit designed to look after the old folks it actually is an insurance company. And before you argue, do some research.

    The old man in question was harming no one. The security "guards" were totally out of line and now we know that the "fair" is not going to prosecute.

    I wonder why.

    I hope he sues and gets a nice chunk of cash and some one has a large hunk of their a$s ripped out.

    And my point remains. If the subject of his affection had been a Repub or....gasp.... Palin, you would be calling for the dismissal of the guards and broadcasting his "rights."

    So quit the posturing. We all know better.

    Parent

    So all it takes is some "tax breaks" ... (none / 0) (#73)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 07:33:48 AM EST
    I mean everyone understands that some politician's back is being scratched, usually at the taxpayer's expense.  So calling it "private" is like calling baseball teams "private." Think of the public fields, tax breaks, etc., etc.

    ... to turn a private organization a public, government body restricting their right to regulate who comes on to their property and allowing others to trespass on their property?

    Ever hear of a "tax break" called "mortgage interest deduction?  Guess any one who owns a home is the government, now.

    BTW - Don't feel sorry for the harmless "old man".  If your accusations have merit, he'll end up rolling in money.

    Care to place a bet?


    Parent

    Rolling in money? Who knows? (none / 0) (#74)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 08:29:25 AM EST
    Alaska is a different place.

    Of course even on private property guards can't act in an unreasonable manner, which the video that you haven't watched, shows them doing.

    Think I'm wrong? If you own some property, go out and tackle an elderly or child trespasser, throw them to the ground and handcuff them.

    Or just shoot one in the middle of your front yard.

    But the issue is this.

    Calling something a "State Fair" and then saying it is "private" kinda seems silly to me... Shouldn't the name be "Private State Fair????" Maybe the slogan should be... "Everyone welcome that your non-tax paying unelected bureaucrats who are friends of some politician think should be here."

    We have had enough of these non-profits operating under government waiver and paying no taxes. If they are so private that people can't demonstrate on them, then they are private and should pay taxes.

    Double standards are no longer in style.

    And, of course you are defending this only because the helpless old man was protesting against Obama. We both know that if it had been anti-Palin, Bush, et al, you would be claiming the actions were justified.

    Parent

    Actually, I did watch it (none / 0) (#75)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 09:37:59 AM EST
    Funny stuff.  Well, I doubt the security guards were so amused when they found the concealed gun on Mr. Hill.  Mr. Hill was only taken down when he wrapped his legs around one of the security guards and he was only pinned down when one of the guards spotted the concealed gun (you can hear the guard warn the other guard at 4:17).  But nice (new) straw argument, since your original claims were of "freedom of speech", "police brutality" and "right to protest", not assault.  Since, in your opinion, Mr. Hill was so clearly assaulted, he should be filing a successful suit shortly, right?

    Once again ..... wanna place a bet?  I'll even give you 5:1.

    BTW - "We both know" ...?  No, ...

    I know, since I base my conclusions on facts and what the law actually is, ...

    ... rather than imagination and what I wish the law was.

    Parent

    Facts? (none / 0) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 12:04:03 PM EST
    The facts are that you are supporting these outrageous acts only because of the political position of the demonstrator.

    I ask again. Did you agree that the policeman was acting right when he shot the looter after Katrina??

    That was a clear case of trespass of private property.

    BTW - I don't believe the elderly man is being prosecuted so I would say he had a permit for the weapon.

    But even if he did not the guards were clearly overly aggressive and the claim that quasi "Private State Fairs" are private property is a joke.

    Many people call such arrangements "Communist Capitalism." We can see the result in Red China quite well. We are seeing the results here in Obama serving the unions (see Chrysler and GM) and the incestous relationships between Freddie/Fannie and the variuous financial instututions.

    Now that worked well for the citizen and average investor! (sarcasm alert)

    Parent

    Yes, (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 01:55:03 PM EST
    that's what makes people like you such an asset in battle to insure and protect our civil liberties, Jim: you'd be equally outraged about a case like this no matter what the political position of the demonstrator..

    No transparent, politically motivated, distorting the facts through the omission of vital information stances on issues and events for folks like you: these are strictly matters of principal, after all..:)    

    Parent

    I hate to tell you this (none / 0) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 02:46:05 PM EST
    because I never like to educate my opponents...

    But it does not matter what my motives are.

    What the independent voter sees, and will see here, is a silence that defines the Left.

    My task is merely to point that out.

    Parent

    "Silence"..as in, (none / 0) (#85)
    by jondee on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 03:48:06 PM EST
    silent in regards to giving credence to the talk radio-level swill you consistently post, and noisy about all the things you want everyone to be silent about..

    But, don't task yourself about it too much.

     

    Parent

    Actually not at all (none / 0) (#87)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 10:31:47 PM EST
    I support his prosecution because he clearly broke the law, despite numerous warnings to stop.  The fact that he's a LaRouche Loon is just icing on the cake.  Attacking his conduct merely because I disagree with his political position or defending someone for doing the same thing merely because I agree with his political conduct would be incredibly hypocritical.  Like say, ...

    ... someone who defends Mr. Hill's trespassing as "exercising his rights" while supporting the prosecution of Cindy Sheehan for trespassing.

    Now that would be truly hypocritical.

    But even if he did not the guards were clearly overly aggressive and the claim that quasi "Private State Fairs" are private property is a joke.

    Many people call such arrangements "Communist Capitalism." We can see the result in Red China quite well

    Yeah - Alaska's always been a veritable Red China.

    (snicker)

    Parent

    Nice Fantasy (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 10:05:33 AM EST
    Just like here at TL, where free expression is limited to the rules of the owner of the site, Mr Hill was limited to the rules of the owners of the property.

    Please let me know when Mr. Hill files his law suit, oh and do not forget to send him $$$...  unless, that is, he is paying you to write fiction here and at your site...

    Parent

    Wrong again ... (none / 0) (#77)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 10:32:53 AM EST
    The security "guards" were totally out of line and now we know that the "fair" is not going to prosecute.

    I wonder why.

    The Fair is dropping the assault charge, but they are going to prosecute.

    Hill, who had been held on $500 bail, was arraigned Friday afternoon at the Palmer Courthouse. Assistant District Attorney Trina Sears said her office decided not to prosecute Hill on the assault charge, but is going forward with the charges of disorderly conduct and trespassing. She also asked for, and was granted, an order Hill not return to the fair.


    Parent
    They need to prosecute (none / 0) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 12:46:10 PM EST
    Nothing like creating a victim!

    The Tea Party thanks them!

    Parent

    Day by day, it looks more like The Tea Party (none / 0) (#80)
    by jondee on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 01:19:16 PM EST
    is slowly morphing itself into the Lone Nuts on a String Party. Ready to go postal at any moment..

    Something the average American will surely be able to identify with..

    And who doesn't feel the need to bring a concealed weapon with them to a fair grounds, with the looming threat of all those families and children around: just waiting to launch another full-on assault on the freedoms of white patriots?      

    Parent

    Thread cleaned of (none / 0) (#67)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 05:31:31 PM EST
    comments with personal attacks, calling commenters by derisive names and quoting old comments from other threads.

    Please follow the commenting rules.

    Labor Day Weekend: Open Thread | 80 comments (80 topical)

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