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Thursday Morning AWOL Open Thread

I've been busy. Be back next week with regular posting.

Open Thread.

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    Thanks to everyone... (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:19:41 AM EST
    ...who sent good wishes to me last night regarding my mother's health.  Talked to her when they finally got her into a room, and she sounded absolutely normal, ready to go home, which will be today.  They're saying it was stress related, but no one is certain.  She's a workaholic who can't say no to anyone, so stress is always there with her, especially since she decided to keep her public school superintendent's gig a few years back, though going to part time.  School politics right now are horrible, as we all know, the entire job is cut money, fire people, nothing at all fun.  I think her husband and my half-siblings are going to tell her it's time to quit the administrator gig, she's put in thirty years almost, still has her college teaching and consulting and lobbying and film production work to fall back, none of which comes with the anxiety of her superintendent's position.  She's a terrific artist (painting, woodcuts, drawing), she can play the piano, speaks three languages, it's time for her to take it a little easier.

    Peace to all.

    What a relief! (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:47:28 AM EST
    So glad to hear your mom is okay, and that her wake-up call that it's time to slow down was only that, and didn't involve anything dire.

    That being said, your mom doesn't sound like someone who has ever lived life at a slower speed, so it may take quite a concerted campaign to get her to heed the message her body's sending her.


    Parent

    Retirement may be amazingly good (5.00 / 0) (#129)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:47:46 AM EST
    for her health.  I have a friend, also an educator, who retired ahead of the time that he planned, when he abruptly did so last year due to the stressful politics of education these days -- especially stressful for those of us near the age of retirement with the uncertainties from threats to pensions and so much more.

    He gleefully reports that in his first post-retirement physical, his physician found that my friend's high blood pressure was gone.  Entirely gone, after decades of worrying levels.

    He is off hypertension meds.  He looks great, as he has lost weight.  He feels wonderful.  He is evidence that is sending more of my friends to the financial planners to see how soon they can retire from the craziness of education these days.

    I am delighted to hear that your mother is doing well, and you may be delighted to see what is ahead.

    Parent

    Good to hear... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:25:26 AM EST
    she is ok Dadler.

    How does Moms feel about certain herbal stress relievers?  Works for me.  I think the fam is right to suggest retirement, she's paid her dues and who needs it in the age of "gut the schools and everthing that is cool"'s budget...so the DEA can chase cocaine in Africa and cops have exrtra nightsticks to club 99%'ers.


    Parent

    Such an evangelist. (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:22:08 AM EST
    Excellent news (none / 0) (#3)
    by jbindc on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:27:13 AM EST
    Glad to hear the good word.

    Parent
    Good news, Dadler! (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:57:20 AM EST
    she sounds like a super-talented lady who ought (none / 0) (#17)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 12:15:02 PM EST
    to be enjoying life. Hope she takes your collective advice! Tell her she has to so those of us unable can live vicariously!

    Parent
    I missed that yesterday, Dave (none / 0) (#53)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:31:26 PM EST
    this was probably the proverbial 'wake up call'..Sounds like maybe your Mom is one of those people who,(like most of us), has a hard time stepping back from, and taking an objective look at what they've been doing..Or maybe what she does just brings her that much fulfillment..

    Sounds like you two are due for some quality time together..

    Good to hear she's o.k. Peace.

    Parent

    I'm glad (none / 0) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:17:47 PM EST
    to hear that your mom is doing okay.

    Parent
    Remember the WH creation of the (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:37:23 AM EST
    We the People campaign?  The one where people could create petitions, and if enough signatures were obtained, the administration would review it, send it to the right experts, and then respond?

    I can't believe it (1) took this long for someone to put up the following petition and (2) that it's still on the website:

    We demand a vapid, condescending, meaningless, politically safe response to this petition.

    Since these petitions are ignored apart from an occasional patronizing and inane political statement amounting to nothing more than a condescending pat on the head, we the signers would enjoy having the illusion of success. Since no other outcome to this process seems possible, we demand that the White House immediately assign a junior staffer to compose a tame and vapid response to this petition, and never attempt to take any meaningful action on this or any other issue. We would also like a cookie.

    I can believe it has almost 11,000 signatures - only 14,000 to go!

    I think this deserves (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:39:43 AM EST
    an address to the nation from the oval office, too... (with no grinning)

    Parent
    Another popular one . . . (none / 0) (#16)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:59:16 AM EST
    Fact (none / 0) (#19)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 12:37:15 PM EST
    "Nov. 8 (Bloomberg) -- The number of positions waiting to be filled in the U.S. rose in September to the highest level in more than three years, indicating some companies are preparing for an improving economy."

    Parent
    McDonalds is expanding? (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 12:47:54 PM EST
    Good. Barack shouldn't have any trouble landing a job next year then. I've been getting more and more worried about the guy lately. He's getting a little blurry around the edges. Looks stressed...

    Parent
    Seasonal hiring time (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 12:55:47 PM EST
    gotta love those low paying jobs for folks with degrees and many years of experience . . . .

    Parent
    Data (none / 0) (#26)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:15:02 PM EST
    • Jobless claims are at their lowest levels since April

    • The fact that opening are at a three year high, by definition, indicates that it is not attributable to seasonal issues.  

    • The IT sector is leading the job growth, signaling that there level of new jobs may be of surprising quality.

    Alternative explanation: Things maybe getting better.  Not quickly but they are getting better.

    Parent
    Yeah, I just got one of those "jobs" (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:46:15 PM EST
    Holiday retail, 25 hours per week at $9.00 an hour. Ends December 27th. Wow, it is so exciting to be part of the 1% again!!!

    Parent
    Hey, have you checked out doing (none / 0) (#116)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 08:33:39 PM EST
    product demos? I picked up a gig for the holidays and the pay and hours are much better. The company I'm working for pays $18hr plus all expenses. And once you're in, they say they would like to continue use you. You may want to check out some companies since they do it year round.

    Parent
    I'm considering all sorts of jobs (none / 0) (#120)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:22:09 PM EST
    that I wouldn't have been caught dead doing even three years ago. Once you have run your own business and made $35 an hour, it's hard to believe you'll take almost anything to pay the rent. At this point in my life, I am running through savings, depsite being non-materialistic and a good budgeter. So, after this holiday thing ends, I will be looking for something that will give me more than just 33 cents above minimum wage.

    I've seen product demo jobs advertised for as much as $12 an hour here. Our cost of living is still lower than that in SF, which is among the highest in the nation.

    Parent

    I may take a job (none / 0) (#121)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:45:02 PM EST
    stocking grocery shelves on 3rd shift for a while myself, since finding something i'm qualified to do doesn't seem to be an option.

    Still going to expatriate, but cash in hand is nice.

    Colombia, romania, Hungary, Moldova, the crimea, uruguay...I've kind of narrowed it down to these. Maybe Algeria or Libya or Tunisia... warm is better than cold.

    Parent

    A request from your captain. (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by caseyOR on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:01:10 PM EST
    As you scout for pirate locations, please keep in mind that some in the crew are female and cherish their personal freedoms. m'kay?

    Thanks.

    Parent

    We all only have the freedoms... (none / 0) (#145)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:25:03 AM EST
    we can defend Captain...anybody fixin' to subjugate my captain or her crew has to get past my cutlass!

    Wherever we wind up doing our anarcho-syndicalist pirate experiment, we will not allow ourselves to be subject to tyranny...thats the whole point of being pirate outlaws, right?

    "To live outside the law we must be honest".  


    Parent

    Take care of your back (none / 0) (#122)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:54:27 PM EST
    I was looking at stats on pay in my field (none / 0) (#124)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:36:13 PM EST
    23% higher than national here. I was looking at perhaps going to another west coast city since I have little baggage these days, but the pay does take some serious drops :-/ Where I live, the COL is lower than SF, but still easily commutable. If I can hook up a full time job or some new clients, I could possibly make up for the economy, NFL lock out, NBA lockout, etc . . . . too bad my mover stole all my belongings including all my portfolios and files :(

    I found the promo co because they were looking for someone to rep a product that I absolutely loved when I had it. They put me on another product that I'm real happy to know about, lol!~ It's mostly weekends, which leaves me free for my 'regular' work. I checked out doing retail for the holidays, but the one place that called me back wanted us to do stock for a month and then work door busters and sales (aka be there at 2AM) for less than 9bucks. Must say, glad they didn't call back and this other company did!

    Parent

    Your mover stole your stuff?? (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:54:02 PM EST
    Sheesh, I missed that part of the story. I would have turned into some kinda monster if my mover did that to me. Release the hounds!

    Parent
    Yup, I landed with the clothes on my back (none / 0) (#128)
    by nycstray on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:18:55 AM EST
    (with a few changes in the bag) and my pets. Gotta great resume and not much to back it up visually . . .

    First time I've mentioned it, as it's officially a done deal that my belongings are gone. Been a very long year . . . and I really wish I had a hound or 2 to release. Think I'll go the legal route though . . . I'll save my future hounds for some good ol' fashioned love :)

    Parent

    That sucks stray... (none / 0) (#146)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:27:03 AM EST
    was it a NY based mover? You still have connections back east who would be happy to assist in an attempted retrieval...or simple revenge:)

    Parent
    Forget the hounds (none / 0) (#157)
    by sj on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 03:29:38 PM EST
    Release the Kraken!

    Parent
    Are there any openings (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:03:07 PM EST
    for democratic party shills and apologists?

    Parent
    There is no room left (none / 0) (#78)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:35:24 PM EST
    because the party is now full of people whose sole job is to complain about everything, regardless of progress or accomplishment.

    Now those are the folks who should be outsourced to another party.

    Parent

    ABG, where have you been? (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:38:47 PM EST
    A good many have already left the party, quite willingly. It's called being an independent. We don't believe in shilling for any party.

    Parent
    shoephone (none / 0) (#90)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:05:10 PM EST
    The numbers tend to say otherwise. A very, very small minority of democrats have left the party. Instead of relying on the opinions of small subsets of the most engaged (which is what you see on blogs and such), let's look at real numbers.  The political party affiliation numbers are actually very consistent over the past 5 or so years during which Obama is supposed to have destroyed the party or whatever:

    Percentage of Dems in Nov 2004: 35%

    Percentage of Dems in Nov 2005: 35%

    Percentage of Dems in Nov 2006: 35%

    Percentage of Dems in Nov 2007: 33%

    Percentage of Dems in Nov 2008: 39%

    Percentage of Dems in Nov 2011: 36%

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

    The numbers tell us that the party itself isn't losing members in any material way and slightly more people identify as democrat than normally the case.

    The concept fundamental to your comment is the perception places like this but not the broader reality.

    And I shill for no one.  I call it like I see it.  

    Parent

    The question asked in the poll wasn't (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 06:11:56 PM EST
    "are you a registered Republican, Democrat or independent," it was "do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat, or an independent?"

    Why does that make a difference?  It suggests that those asked were not necessarily registered with any political party, so it doesn't capture, I don't think, actual membership trends.

    It doesn't matter much if Joe Blow considers himself a Democrat if he isn't even registered to vote.  Or if he's like me, and while registered as a Democrat, is finding it difficult to cast a vote for Democrats who aren't advocating for what I consider to be Democratic policy; I would say that I consider myself a Democrat, but if no one's going to ask me how I define "Democrat," it doesn't mean much.

    As for the whole jobs thing, you haven't provided any information about the kinds of jobs for which there are openings, or information about salaries and/or hourly wage rates for those positions, and how they compare to wages for those same jobs pre-2008.

    High unemployment has depressed wages.  Those fortunate enough to be going back into the job market after a period of unemployment are finding that they aren't going back at the salaries they were earning before they were laid off.  Are they happy to be working, and is it a good thing for that person to be gainfully employed?  Of course it is.  

    But it doesn't tell the whole story, just as "9% unemployment" doesn't capture those who have stopped looking for work or who no longer qualify for benefits, which pretty much doubles that rate.

    I think it's time you perhaps faced the truth that a lot of people no longer blindly and loyally line up behind Democratic candidates if they don't feel those candidates, or incumbents, are satisfactorily representing their interests.  It doesn't mean they are voting another party, it means they are voting third party, writing in, or choosing not to vote.

    It simply isn't enough that the Democrats be slightly less bad than their Republican opponents; we're enormously tired of settling for crappy candidates who don't feel any obligation to represent our interests.

    Parent

    Anne (none / 0) (#137)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:18:58 AM EST
    1. I don't think that matters for the purposes we are discussing here.  I am not a registered democrat.  No one in my family is and I doubt many of the people I interact with socially are.  But they are democrats and they vote democratic and align themselves with the party.  Fundamentally, that's what we are talking about. If you are arguing that people like me aren't Democrats, that's really saying something.

    2. Your other points again go to your repeated statements that I (or maybe to be fairer, people like me) don't see the truth, or we haven't read enough to have your knowledge, or what have you.
    And you also repeat the belief (which I continue to strongly disagree with) that if you support the president and generally think he is doing a decent job, it's blind loyalty.  Both of these opinions are condescending and fundamentally insulting of the intelligence of those who simply analyze the facts and come to a different conclusion. You don't seem to see that point, but it makes it no less insulting and condescending for those you paint with that unfair label.

    3. Chris Rock gave an interview this week that encapsulated well my take:

    "I'm like everybody, I want more action. But I understand that he's trying not to piss off a lot of people. But I believe wholeheartedly if he's back in, he's going to do some gangsta sh--. . . [Bush] was the first cable TV president we had. And what I mean by that ... he was the first president that was only president to the people that voted for him. He did not give a f--- about the people that didn't vote for him. Obama is actually trying to be president to the whole country and there's a lot of compromise being president to the whole country. ... In a weird way our complaints about Obama is because we miss Bush. We miss hating somebody. We miss the guy who didn't give a f---. ... Bush didn't give a f--- about us. He just really, really didn't. We want revenge; we don't want justice. That's the problem with the Democrats. We want revenge."

    My position is pretty simple: I want Obama to do everything I want him to do.  He has to govern even for those that didn't vote for them and can't ignore their opinions and concepts.  That angers me at times, but if Mitt becomes President, I'd hope that he would govern the same way.  If he does not (as Bush didn't) the response isn't to do the same thing the next time our guy is elected, no matter how tempting that might be.  Holding this position means that there is always something the POTUS does that is going to anger me.  But people like me put everything in the bigger perspective.

    You see that as ignorance or a lack of knowledge or evidence of evil or secret conservatism while it just means (for most) that their view of the responsibilities, powers and capabilities of the POTUS in this environment are different from yours.

    My only real problem with you is that you refuse to acknowledge that a knowledgeable, good and progressive person can have my views, while I am more than willing to acknowledge that a knowledgeable, good and progressive person can have yours.

    We'll be at each others throats for years until you give me the same respect I give you.

    Because I don't take kindly to the continued assertions that you somehow know more than I do.  That does nothing to encourage constructive discussion.


    Parent

    ABG, please go back and look at what (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 10:22:20 AM EST
    you said in your original comment.

    You said (emphasis is mine):

    A very, very small minority of democrats have left the party.  Instead of relying on the opinions of small subsets of the most engaged (which is what you see on blogs and such), let's look at real numbers.  The political party affiliation numbers are actually very consistent over the past 5 or so years during which Obama is supposed to have destroyed the party or whatever:

    You made an assertion about party membership, which was why I pointed out that the stats you cited did not address actual membership, only the political leanings of those polled.

    If you want to assert that a small minority of dems have left the party, then the stats you needed to post to support that assertion should have been membership statistics, not "do you consider yourself to be..." poll results.

    As for this:

    And you also repeat the belief (which I continue to strongly disagree with) that if you support the president and generally think he is doing a decent job, it's blind loyalty.

    I never repeated any such thing.  What I said was that

    a lot of people no longer blindly and loyally line up behind Democratic candidates if they don't feel those candidates, or incumbents, are satisfactorily representing their interests.

    which is exactly the opposite of what you claim I stated.  

    If necessary, I will continue to state that I want a Democratic president to advance Democratic policy - the old kind, not this new PPUS garbage - because I think that's the best policy that will do the most good for the most people.  The president can certainly acknowledge awareness of the opinions and positions of others, but leadership is about doing the hard work that will bring those who don't share your views over to your side, and not abandoning the fight at the first sign of opposition.

    There is not a Republican that I see on the near-term horizon who will cater to, indulge, cooperate with, concede or reach out to Democrats or liberals or progressives when it comes to their vision for the country, and all Obama has done, in my opinion, by wanting or needing to be all things to all people is move this country way farther to the right and erode the Democratic brand for the foreseeable future.  And there is no indication that a second term will see things stop moving to the right.

    I've never demanded that you not have the views you have, but honestly, the rhetorical contortions you routinely engage in make it nearly impossible to determine what those views are, other than the whatever's-best-for-Obama that nearly everything comes down to for you.

    This isn't about me knowing more than you, it's about the difficulty you seem to have in understanding and presenting your own assertions and arguments - which is why threads that involve you tend to go sideways almost as soon as you show up.


    Parent

    ABG: Thank you. Well-stated. (2.00 / 1) (#153)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:01:03 PM EST
    Now, now, sj (none / 0) (#159)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 04:58:48 PM EST
    Open discussion & free-speech & persoanl opinions are not very acceptable if not in agreement with your position.

    Look, ABG (or me...sometimes) may drive you up a tree or somesuch, but I will repeat that my view as to what ABG stated here is totally in accord with him.  If you disagree, fine.  But, the ratings game routine is beneath you...especially since you address your thoughts better than that. As ABG--and Anne--says on a later thread: Its a good day. So, lighten up.  We don't have to clobber each other in respectful disagreement.

    Parent

    For this, I would not rely on polls (none / 0) (#110)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 06:13:56 PM EST
    A lot of people don't answer their landlines when they see a pollster ("research company") calling, and a lot of people only have cell phones, which don't get called by pollsters. I'm someone who never talks to pollsters.

    All it takes a few thousand -- or hundred -- in each district to effect congressional elections. And I'm not hearing many of the OWS protestors claiming allegiance to the Democratic party.

    Parent

    "The past five years or so" - heh (none / 0) (#112)
    by Yman on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 06:35:20 PM EST
    Seems like such a strange period to select, since Obama was only elected in 2008.  Not sure who would have claimed Obama was "supposed to have destroyed the party" before 2008, when he was merely a freshman Senator and candidate.

    Unless, of course, someone was trying to broaden that period in an attempt to distort/minimize the @ 10% drop in Democrats since Obama took office.

    Parent

    I gave the numbers (none / 0) (#138)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:22:09 AM EST
    and they went beyond the last five years to show that there have been no material erosion in the last 10 years.

    Bottom line: the numbers today are better than the numbers 10 years ago.  If people were fleeing the party, that would not be the case.

    Parent

    I'm sure that's why ... (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Yman on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:01:52 PM EST
    ... you gave those numbers.

    The number have grown and shrunk for several reasons, but the subject at hand was Obama's effect on those numbers.  Since he's been in office, the numbers have dropped 10%.  Actually, the November numbers are a high outlier.  If you take the average for this year, the percentage of decrease would be much larger - without running the numbers, looks like @ 32%.  Heck, just last month the number was 31.

    Bottom line - Since Obama took office, the numbers have dropped substantially.  Guess that's what a hopium hangover does to people...

    Parent

    folks should be outsourced to another party? (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:05:56 PM EST
    You want more people to join the republican party?

    Not surprising. I've felt that's been your goal all along. You'll get all of Barack's policies with no problem at all if you can get another republican elected next year, after all.

    Parent

    I want more people (none / 0) (#94)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:13:35 PM EST
    To focus on the evils of the conservatives instead of spending every day bashing the democrats.

    Shocking position coming from a democrat, I know.

    Calling anyone who disagrees with you a republican is fun.  Can I try it:

    Edger, you don't seem to support Obama or the dems in congress, spend an abnormal amount of time talking about bad guys other than republicans and may not even vote for the dems next fall.

    You must be a republican!!!!

    Hmm. No. I got no fun out of that.  You'll have to help me because I must be doing it wrong.

    Parent

    We focus on the evils of (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:48:38 AM EST
    conservative policies which your main guy just loves to get passed including more and bigger tax breaks, cutting domestic programs and job killing trade deals. He BTW has been able to pass conservative policies that the Republicans were unable to get through Congress. When he finally cuts the safety net programs to pay his savvy business friends for his position in the top spot he will have exceeded the expectations of every conservative in the country.

    I know you think that it really sucks to have people judge Obama by his actions and not by his false words but we have to live with his actions unlike you who benefits from his Wall St. centric policies.

    Parent

    Lol. (none / 0) (#96)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:16:34 PM EST
    You obviously haven't read many of my comments then.

    Parent
    All I am saying is (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:53:18 PM EST
    Calling someone a republican is an insult in my house.  Please don't do it to me.

    Parent
    Then don't act like one. (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:43:53 PM EST
    I am acting like a democrat (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:25:33 AM EST
    This is the way that democrats act. Pragmatic. Reasonable. Etc.

    What's going on in our party is the going on in the GOP.

    A republican, a real republican, wouldn't say 70% of the things the Herman Cains and Perrys and Bachmann's say now, but the extreme of the party has highjacked what it means to be a republican.

    I think that in some ways those that are further from the middle are also trying to highjack what it means to be a democrat, and it's incumbent on those in the middle to fight to prevent that from happening.

    We've seen what a disaster it has been for the GOP.  It is going to doom their party long term.  If the economy was better, they'd be getting destroyed right now.  The recession is masking the fact that allowing your party to be controlled by extremists is a long term loser.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#147)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:43:34 AM EST
    You talk and act just like Bush's 26 percenters did. You talk and act like a republican constantly.

    Parent
    In your 'defense', such as it is, (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Edger on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:47:35 AM EST
    pretty well all obama/democratic party supporters talk and act like republicans, with constant excusing or outright embracing of republican policies.

    Parent
    Two comments ago (none / 0) (#156)
    by sj on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 03:22:29 PM EST
    you stated that you are not a registered Democrat.  Your parents are not registered Democrats.  Your social circle is not comprised of registered Democrats.

    As you are not a registered Democrat, you have never done party work or done any of the heavy lifting that is involved in supporting a political party.

    So how, pray tell, could you possible know how the he!! "democrats" act?

     
    I am acting like a democrat (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:25:33 AM EST

    This is the way that democrats act. Pragmatic. Reasonable. Etc.


    All you can do is conjecture.  And, apparently, have another pinch of snuff.  Because, I assure you, effective democrats have been hard hitting and stubborn with a strong populist, moral center.  I don't even know the effete, rudderless "democrat" that you're describing.  But then again, when I registered locally, I dropped party affiliation because I don't recognize democrats anymore.

    I find this comment, makes me feel ill.  It's the kind of person you describe here that corrupted the party and converted it to mush, answerable only to those with the largest checks.

    Parent

    Hyperbole. (none / 0) (#160)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 05:00:31 PM EST
    hmmm.... (none / 0) (#161)
    by sj on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 05:54:47 PM EST
    maybe.  But spineless, no.  And your and ABG's kind of "go along to get along" is ... tepid.  And rather insipid, really.  Prefer a little hyperbole that makes a point than weak, lukewarm tea.  


    Parent
    Oh, and btw (none / 0) (#162)
    by sj on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 05:56:10 PM EST
    My being a registered Independent is a reality.  Not hyperbole.  I flatly reject the weak tea.

    Parent
    No need for you to complain (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 08:57:54 PM EST
    Obama is taking good care of you and your savvy friends.

    Obama Won't Support a Tax on Rich Traders

    Suzi Khimm of the Washington Post asked a "senior administration official" why the White House opposes a financial transactions tax of .03%, and got this absurd response:

    "We share the goal of wanting a more stable financial system. We share the goal of wanting a more progressive tax system. The only real questions are -- what's the best way to do that?"

    A more progressive tax system for Obama is lowering the marginal rate for corporations and the mega rich. Also, according to the Obama doctrine it is much better to cut benefits for the poor and the middle class than have his friends pay even .03%.  

    Parent

    Funny (none / 0) (#85)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:55:37 PM EST
    I would have thought they'd be screaming for help from any evangelists they could get, considering the shape they're in politically.

    But maybe you think they're doing just fine and don't need any help. In which case you could maybe get some badly needed days off?

    You seem a little stressed lately too. Conversion rate not where it should be?

    Parent

    Not stressed (none / 0) (#92)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:08:42 PM EST
    At all. I have to convert no one.  Obama's numbers are rising in the polls. The elections this week were largely a democratic success story and the economy appears poised to grow if the EU doesn't kill it.

    Plus the conservatives are in chaos because they hate their nominee even more than some people I know hate Obama. I am feeling better about the dems chances than I have in some time.

    Anyway, if I had a dollar for every time someone went after my reasons for posting instead of just addressing the points I made . . .

    I'd be in the 1%.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#95)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:14:40 PM EST
    at least you have another scapegoat to blame if things go as expected.

    Those mirrors are awful things after all, I understand.

    Parent

    Come on out to CA and see for yourself (none / 0) (#34)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:28:59 PM EST
    Yeah, we've got IT jobs, but it's common knowledge that IT alone can't save CA. My county still has 11.6 UE.

    Parent
    Jobless claims lowest since April (none / 0) (#67)
    by jbindc on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:13:51 PM EST
    Maybe because everyone has already lost their job or their benefits have run out?

    Parent
    Not according to the data. (none / 0) (#79)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:36:01 PM EST
    Exactly my point (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by jbindc on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:38:27 PM EST
    Those people aren't counted in the data.

    Parent
    One thing about the data: (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:56:47 PM EST
    The data for each month is being recalculated a month or two after original numbers are reported. And many times, the new calculations show the unemployment numbers to be larger than in first reports. Also, the numbers themselves do not reflect those who have given up looking for work (eg., folks over 55, convinced that they will never be hired again anyway, so why look) and those who never filed in the first place because they were self-employed and, therefore, not entitled to UI (like me.)

    I consider it close to a miracle that I was even interviewed for my upcoming temp job. Age discrimination is alive and well -- I have found that out first-hand.

    I sincerely hope the situation is starting to turn around for good, because I need to work! But I will withhold any conclusions about the latest reported stats until after the holidays. Very few of the holiday jobs are going to lead to permanant employment, and the high-tech companies (more than a couple of which are located in my city) are still hiring many on-contract and short-term workers from India, who will accept lower wages, rather than hiring permanent workers from right here.


    Parent

    Another thing about the data (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:57:47 AM EST
    is that the numbers include only those workers who were eligible for unemployment.

    I know many unemployed who never received unemployment comp because they were not laid off but relocated for spouses' jobs, were not in eligible jobs in the first place (a lot of fields are not covered -- such as teachers, who are ineligible as "seasonal" employees with nine-month-a-year careers), etc.

    To use unemployment claims as the measure of unemployment rates, up or down or sidewise, is a clever route away from the reality for many workers who no longer have work.

    But that reality will bite -- at the polls, for pols.

    Parent

    Data you say (5.00 / 0) (#118)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:09:19 PM EST
    If the BLS adds the 9.3 million who are "involuntarily" employed part time because their hours were cut back or because they couldn't find a full-time job, that brings the total to 23.3 million un- (or under) employed. Another 2.5 million persons were "marginally attached" to the labor force -- those who were not working, but wanted to work and had tried to find work in the past year without success -- which brings the total to 25.8 million. According to the BLS, the civilian work force is just over 154 million, so doing the math give a potentially more accurate number: 16.8 percent.

    If those who have given up looking for work altogether were counted, that would add more than another nine million, according to John Williams at ShadowStats.com. That brings the unemployment number to 23 percent. This is confirmed by a recent Gallup poll that nearly one in every five Americans describe themselves as underemployed but it doesn't count those who hold more than one job just to make ends meet.

    Finally, no allowance is made for individuals working below the poverty level (less than $10.50 an hour), which includes one in every five workers.



    Parent
    Since you're always a good source (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:17:32 PM EST
    do you remember seeing anything recently (last week or so) about how only 48% of the UE are collecting UEI? And that is expected to drop as more are falling into the 99wk hole?

    Parent
    In Oregon, approx, 2,000 unemployed (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by caseyOR on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:57:18 PM EST
    workers exhaust UE benefits every month. Unless Congress extends UEI again, and does it soon, that number will increase to 12,000-14,000 per month by February. And that is just the state of Oregon.

    I don't care if you are a Democrat or a Republican or none of the above, those numbers are tragic. Multiply that 12,000 out by 50 states and "Houston, we have a problem."  

    This problem will not be solved by cutting SS, Medicare and Medicaid. It will not be solved by cutting funding for WIC. Businesses are not refusing to hire because they think pregnant women and babies get too much free milk.

    I've had it. I am disgusted by all of our so-called political leaders. Obama, Boehner, Pelosi, Reid, McConnell and both caucuses are failing the American people. None of them has clean hands.

    Parent

    Here is an article on that subject (none / 0) (#141)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:31:09 AM EST
    Only 48% of jobless still getting unemployment benefits

    WASHINGTON -- The jobs crisis has left so many people out of work for so long that most of America's unemployed are no longer receiving unemployment benefits.

    Early last year, 75 percent were receiving checks. The figure is now 48 percent -- a shift that points to a growing crisis of long-term unemployment. Nearly one-third of America's 14 million unemployed have had no job for a year or more.

    Congress is expected to decide by year's end whether to continue providing emergency unemployment benefits for up to 99 weeks in the hardest-hit states. If the emergency benefits expire, the proportion of the unemployed receiving aid would fall further.

    The ranks of the poor would also rise. The Census Bureau says unemployment benefits kept 3.2 million people from slipping into poverty last year. It defines poverty as annual income below $22,314 for a family of four.

    Yet for a growing share of the unemployed, a vote in Congress to extend the benefits to 99 weeks is irrelevant. They've had no job for more than 99 weeks. They're no longer eligible for benefits.



    Parent
    Experiment (none / 0) (#140)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:28:47 AM EST
    Someone give us a TL employment number that contemplates all of the things missing from the standard unemployment number, whether it is 15% or 17% or whatever.

    Let's track the status of that number over the last 12 months and into the next 12 months.

    If that number increases from here on out, Obama is failing. If that number decreases, he is succeeding.

    That's the only fair way to evaluate whether he's moving us in the right direction.


    Parent

    No let's track the total number of people (none / 0) (#144)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:53:01 AM EST
    who are unemployed or underemployed. IOW let's track the real unemployment numbers that actually count ALL the people who are unemployed even those who the standard method drops out of the numbers to understate the problem.

    Parent
    You could use (none / 0) (#149)
    by Zorba on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:46:51 AM EST
    the U6 unemployment rate.  Or you could use John Williams Shadow Government Statistics measurement of unemployment (which will make you really depressed).

    Parent
    The data says (none / 0) (#89)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:00:53 PM EST
    it's cold outside today too. I guess we can stop all the ridiculous concern over global warming/climate change.

    And the data says Barack's "drawdown" in Afghanistan means he's reducing troop levels there. Never mind that after the drawdown he'll have twice as many there as he had the day of his inauguration.

    We won't talk about that. Or about the data that says he's withdrawing troops from Iraq across the border into Kuwait.

    Data is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

    Parent

    You prove (none / 0) (#99)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:06:11 PM EST
    that data can be used to support any point.

    But I was referring to the specific data that we have been using as a reference point for progress, not final success or failure.

    Parent

    I know what you (none / 0) (#113)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 07:12:11 PM EST
    were hoping to using your data point for, but the fact is it's simply that. A data point. A meaningless snapshot of a moment in a long term trend of evaporating job prospects and the decline of the economy for everyone but the top 1%.

    It's a lie, in other words.

    Like the cold temperature today does not mean the long term trend is cooling.

    US Gov. Spending Cuts: What's On The Table? You're On The Table

    ...most minimum wage earners in the U.S. can no longer the afford the basic necessities of life


    Parent
    You guys are talking in circles, at this point (none / 0) (#114)
    by christinep on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 07:46:44 PM EST
    ABG made a good point...whether it is a point in time, as any point (data or otherwise) is, he cited his reference to show that those "considering" themselves as Democrats have not plummeted nor plunged in any significant way. (And, yes, the question usually involves the word "considering.")

    Now--if the point of this colloquy is to play & squeeze words for fun or whatever on your part, that is--as you know--a different matter. Quite frankly, it is obviously a little gamesmanship. Well, whatever it takes to occupy your time.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#115)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 08:01:38 PM EST
    It was just a lie.

    Parent
    What Does That Mean ? (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:20:35 PM EST
    With unemployment nearing 10% there can't be a problem filling positions.  I keep hearing about lines for positions, yet there is a stat for 'positions waiting to be filled'.

    This is Bush mentality, a job is a job is a job, never mind they are low paying benefit free jobs, just so long as the numbers look good.  And in this case, just so the number may look good, so long as the people losing jobs doesn't surpass the ones waiting to be filled.

    Really a pointless stat until they get filled.

    Parent

    Perhaps it means, ast at my workplace (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:50:04 AM EST
    that these are "vacant positions" declared so to balance budgets but with no intent to fill them.  If they are not declared vacant, they can be lost.  But they await better budgets to ever actually be positions that employ actual people.

    Parent
    Few Things (none / 0) (#76)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:34:01 PM EST
    We don't go from high unemployment to low unemployment over night.  It will be a slow process, but one which looks to be starting in earnest.

    The number everyone uses as their standard of reference is at 9%, not 10%. And that is down this quarter.

    The job openings are surprisingly good if you look at the sectors heating up, but to expect us to fix the unemployment and give everyone the best jobs ever is unrealistic. Task 1: Get people working.  Task 2: Work on raising the wages.  

    Anyway, the point was just that there is good news, not that it was a solution to all problems.

    The perfect should not be the enemy of the good.

    Parent

    And p!ss poor results should not be (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 08:37:20 AM EST
    described as good and then rationalized using the worn out phrase "The perfect should not be the enemy of the good." A phrase which, by the way, has been used to excuse completely inadequate performances by our politicians for decades and is one of the reasons ordinary people are in the dire straights they are in today.  

    Parent
    Piss Poor Results (none / 0) (#148)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:45:10 AM EST
    Your analysis is based on what, the raw numbers or what was actually possible.

    In other words, your assertion includes on baseline reference.  Are you saying that performance is piss poor based on the standard of 5% employment that we'd have if there was no recession and the economy was booming.  Is it based on some analysis of where we would be had we had an additional billion dollars of stimulus.  Or is it based on the correct statement that "sh*t is F**** and bullsh*t" which is an entirely accurate statement but not one on which you can objectively review the performance of the administration.

    Shorter: compared to what?  

    People are very good on the "this sucks" side of the analysis and very poor on the "compared to X results that were highly likely to occur if Y had been done" side of the analysis.

    Parent

    My analysis is based on real numbers (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:01:03 PM EST
    Actual real unemployment numbers and not some "what we have is better than nothing" position that you favor to justify the policies that Obama has implemented that benefit corporations and the rich at the expense of on ordinary people.

    Obama's response to the financial crisis was totally inadequate to the situation as even he admits.  It was based on even more tax cuts, government money going to pay for top CEO million dollar bonuses while cutting WIC etc., his Dec. 2010 tax cuts were even more generous to the rich than Bush's tax cuts and raised taxes on people making $20,000 a year, his trade deals will cost Americans 100,000 to 200,000 jobs which will go to N. Korea, help maintain tax havens and support union killing governments, his new deal will allow contractors to avoid paying taxes.

     

    Parent

    You know (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:23:24 PM EST
    what? For once I hope that is right but we've seen this stuff before. It lasts a few months and then everything crashes back down.

    Parent
    Norwegian airline revokes ban on cellos (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 12:40:31 PM EST
    in cabin:  link

    Well in that case, (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:47:24 PM EST
    Norway's back on my list of countries to visit.

    Parent
    My new band has a cello section... (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:34:02 PM EST
    we're called The Cupkakes...yours truly on percussion, and my sister's three girls on electric guitar (7 year old), cello/flute (9 year old), and vocals (13 year old).  It's a work in progress:)

    We wrote a Halloween song and now workin' on a Thanksgiving jam.  The youngest taking guitar lessons inspired us.

    Parent

    NYC's Gogol Bordello... (none / 0) (#61)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:57:36 PM EST
     ...is playing Occupy Vermont.
    LINK

    Not sure about a cello, but they got enough instruments and people to fill a 747.
    Start Wearing Purple

    And all this time I though Mork was from Ork, turns out he is from Norway.

    Parent

    Mork is a very fine cellist. (none / 0) (#69)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:16:04 PM EST
    Perhaps you can obtain permission (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:34:48 PM EST
    to film and post here!

    Parent
    Oh, gawd! (none / 0) (#134)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:51:58 AM EST
    That sounds like such fun!

    Parent
    This is old but (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:26:09 PM EST
    I didn't see it posted here.  A little levity for those that missed it.  Meant to post it last week but got busy.

    Jon Stewart

    Who will volunteer to read Nixon (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:58:45 PM EST
    grand jury transcript?  This testimony is after Nixon resigned the presidency and after Pres. Ford pardoned him.  Apparently Nixon was surly.  Quelle surprise!  LAT

    I have (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:22:02 PM EST
    been having a six week long drama with the medical community ending with surgery earlier this week. Fortunately the surgery outcome was good but I have never experienced hospitals asking for money before you were even checked out and feeling pretty crappy.

    That sounds terrible (none / 0) (#103)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:37:21 PM EST
    What stress! I hope things are looking much better for your health now.

    Parent
    The thing (none / 0) (#107)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:58:55 PM EST
    was I never physically felt bad. Mentally a wreck because everything was unknown until surgery.

    Parent
    Hope you're all right... (none / 0) (#104)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:42:04 PM EST
    I wish i wasn't used to the insanity of medical care nowadays!  Did you have to get pre-approved for the surgery? That's what was going on in my case, to make sure it was covered. Meh.

    Parent
    I'm sure (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 06:07:54 PM EST
    I did but I'm not the one that called the insurance company. When I went to the surgeons office they wanted to know how much of my deductible was met and they wanted the deductible money before they would schedule me for surgery. So I waited and worried because I didn't know if it was okay to wait or not but I didn't have the money to pay the rest of the deductible up front to the surgeon. So finally all the stuff from the biopsy cleared and I called the surgeon's office but they said nothing about money at that time. Then when I was getting ready to leave the hospital, someone came in wanting $1500 when they told me not to bring anything to the hospital. Already today the hospital has called twice wanting money. I could write a treatise on today's medical system. I have friends who think that if they don't have insurance they will still get care. I hate to tell them that even if you do have insurance you might not get care because they want the money up front.

    Parent
    Only emergency care (none / 0) (#136)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:57:54 AM EST
    So anything short of an emergency fix, they're out of luck.  Nearly homeless friend of mine with no insurance and likely severe colitis only gets help when he's in such agony, he's taken to the E-Room. No real diagnosis, no follow up care, etc.  Just stablized, given a handful of meds and sent on his way.

    Parent
    Goldman Sachs Global Rage Fund (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:59:57 AM EST
    Dear Investor:

    Up until now, Goldman Sachs has been silent on the subject of the protest movement known as Occupy Wall Street.  That does not mean, however, that it has not been very much on our minds.  As thousands have gathered in Lower Manhattan, passionately expressing their deep discontent with the status quo, we have taken note of these protests.  And we have asked ourselves this question:

    How can we make money off them?

    The answer is the newly launched Goldman Sachs Global Rage Fund, whose investment objective is to monetize the Occupy Wall Street protests as they spread around the world.  At Goldman, we recognize that the capitalist system as we know it is circling the drain - but there's plenty of money to be made on the way down.

    [snip]

    the Goldman Sachs Rage Fund is a great way to tell the protesters, "Occupy this."  We haven't felt so good about something we've sold since our souls.

    A Letter from Goldman Sachs Concerning Occupy Wall Street



    Classic... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:36:14 AM EST
    I beat Goldman to that punch...I rated tyranny stocks a strong buy three months ago.

    Parent
    You've always (none / 0) (#10)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:38:11 AM EST
    been ahead of your time, kdog!

    Parent
    If not for this bleeding conscience... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:54:51 AM EST
    I'd be rich Edger, rich I tell you!

    Parent
    You are. (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 12:40:47 PM EST
    :-)

    Parent
    Don't I know it... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:20:51 PM EST
    bro, and those kinda riches are not subject to stock market speculation.

    Parent
    See NYT Arts section today (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:24:30 PM EST
    re "Seminar" with Alan Rickman.  My ticket is now for Wed. matinee, 2 p.m. Nov. 30.  

    Parent
    I'll see what I can do... (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:23:32 PM EST
    outta vacation days.

    But as always, Guiness assured!

    Parent

    Good. (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:24:50 PM EST
    OK, now I'm officially jealous (none / 0) (#50)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:27:11 PM EST
    Come and join us. (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:12:42 PM EST
    Last time I tried to see a play Rickman directed @ B.A.M. I arrived by train only to learn that evening's performance was cancelled.  This time, telecharge e-mailed that the performance for which I had a ticket was cancelled.  Had to re-pay handling fees etc. to get a new ticket and await credit for cancelled ticket.  Hope this is worth the hassle!

    Parent
    Believe me, if I could, I would! (none / 0) (#71)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:25:52 PM EST
    Alan Rickman, Oculus, Kdog, NYC, beers...the perfect recipe. But alas, I am just about to start a five-week holiday job, and that will be the first money I've made since my summer editing gig.

    I'll be there in spirit!

    But, you know, you are going to want to come to Seattle for the Ring Cycle....

    Parent

    I have friends who always get tickets (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:37:50 PM EST
    for the Seattle "Ring" at the earliest opportunity.  I'm not a "Ringhead."  Seattle Symphony recruited a very fine flutist who formerly played with our symphony.  Damien McGill.  His borther is principal clarinet with Met Opera Orch.  

    Parent
    We've got a wonderful new conductor (none / 0) (#93)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:10:37 PM EST
    But, truth be told, a lot of people were just really glad to see Gerard Schwartz go!

    Parent
    I am an afficianado of Schwartz. (none / 0) (#97)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:27:49 PM EST
    He did great things for SSO, (none / 0) (#102)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 05:35:05 PM EST
    including taking a major role in seeing that Benaroya Hall (our wonderful concert hall) got built, but he ended up being loathed by many musicians in the orchestra for having finagled another five years at the helm after his 20-year contract had expired. He became known as something of a tyrant, and there was a lot of intrigue in the last few years involving public charges of harassment and anonymous/secretive retaliations between those who were known to support him and those who were known to want him gone. It was pretty exciting sculduggery for awhile!

    Parent
    To clarify, I respected Schwartz as (none / 0) (#155)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:42:48 PM EST
    a very fine trumpet player, espec. in Baroque music; and as conductor of LA Chamber Orch.  Dark ages.  

    Parent
    Next week!!! Cannot wait that long (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:42:56 AM EST
    to read BTD's opinions re Cain, Grace, Perry, deficit reduction, this week's elections, etc.

    And what are our opinions... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:53:54 AM EST
    chopped liver? :)

    Suffolk County blames hard times for laying off Santa Claus and his budget-busting $ 660.00 salary...yet I see Suffolk County cops all over the place sitting in their squad cars doing nothing making 80 grand or more...at least Santa provides a public service spreading joy to the county's kids...lets lay-off ten cops and hire 100 Santas and reap the budget savings and increased quality of life.  

    Parent

    To me, the general run of comments (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 12:41:27 PM EST
    lately have become unnecessarily contentious and repetitive.  Need something new to fight about.  

    Parent
    The Herman Cain threads?... (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:13:11 PM EST
    I hear ya.  I thought the crew was a little hard on ABG over what was in my estimation a simple poor choice of words...but for once I stayed outta the fray.  I'm already wanted in 7 states for crimes against political correctness.

    Parent
    Herman Cain PAC has (5.00 / 0) (#55)
    by kmblue on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:39:34 PM EST

    a picture of Karen Kraushaar on it's front page, stating flatly that "she is really ugly" and calling her a bitch.

    Reason 1005 why women don't come forward.

    Parent

    link to pic (none / 0) (#62)
    by kmblue on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:00:19 PM EST
    I should have thrown up the Bat Signal (none / 0) (#27)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:16:36 PM EST
    for assistance.  

    Parent
    Sorry dude... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:28:36 PM EST
    I'll make it up to ya next time, as I'm sure there will be a next time:)

    You rile my other TL pals in ways I never even dreamed of back in the contentious Dem primary days on TL.  You have the patience of a saint.

    Parent

    Oh, I think your memory of the primaries (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:33:37 PM EST
    has faded.  

    Parent
    Has it? (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:38:55 PM EST
    How so?  

    Usually short-term memory is my problem, those days I remember pretty well.  Now where did I put my pen? :)

    Parent

    Oh, Rezko, P_ma, Obama (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:51:38 PM EST
    campaign trolls.  

    Parent
    Who could forget..? (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:16:33 PM EST
    And the people who fell all over themselves to make the OTHER moderate-centrist-foreign-policy-hawk sound like some hybrid of Dorathy Day and Elizabeth I..

    WHat a b.s meltdown some of those primary threads were..

    Parent

    Ha. I never thought she walked on water. (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:13:57 PM EST
    Just thought she'd make a better Pres. than Obama.

    Parent
    you may've been right.. (none / 0) (#74)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:29:49 PM EST
    but still nowhere near better enough.

    Parent
    I don't suppose we'll ever know. (none / 0) (#75)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:34:01 PM EST
    I think we'll be debating (none / 0) (#28)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:17:52 PM EST
    Iran a lot in the future and we'll be talking a lot of Israel too.

    Odds of someone bombing Iran in the next 12 months are pretty decent.

    Parent

    You are not alone (none / 0) (#29)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:17:57 PM EST
    in this opinion.

    Parent
    Agreed (none / 0) (#52)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:30:42 PM EST
    To me, the general run of comments lately have become unnecessarily contentious and repetitive

    Too funny, every comment in your thread is rehashing former comments.  I guess it didn't take.

    Parent

    Never does take. (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 04:00:47 PM EST
    I believe the Colbert Super-Pac is stepping (none / 0) (#18)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 12:19:01 PM EST
    in to save Santa...or trying anyway....

    Parent
    and Paterno, and Tebow and zone read (none / 0) (#57)
    by magster on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:42:31 PM EST
    "Oops," Perry (none / 0) (#14)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 11:54:47 AM EST
    I think even he realized he'd overplayed his role as campaign buffoon.

    Free campaign advice: (none / 0) (#36)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:38:49 PM EST
    Only promise to eliminate departments you can name, not just number.  If you can only think of Departments of Commerce and and Education, then just get rid of those--always time to cut loose Energy or whatever, later, when it comes to mind.

    Parent
    Debate tips for Rock: (none / 0) (#58)
    by brodie on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:43:03 PM EST
    1.  Have your handlers go over just a few simple talking points for several hours a day leading up to the event.

    2.  Use simple mnemonic devices to remember short lists of items:  eg, EEC (as in eek! to get rid of mice) stands for getting rid of Education Energy and Commerce depts.

    3.  Get plenty of sleep the night before

    4.  Lay off the sauce until post debate back in the hotel room.

    5.  Exercise of forty five minutes a few hours before the event -- helps clear mental cobwebs

    6. If none of this helps, consider dropping out before you've completely humiliated yourself.


    Parent
    You forget the age old strategy (5.00 / 0) (#119)
    by MO Blue on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:11:53 PM EST
    which was recently employed by Palin.

    Write the answers on your hand.  

    Parent

    I personally don't hold that against her (none / 0) (#158)
    by sj on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 03:38:41 PM EST
    It's a time honored technique.  Just ask my palm.  Although frankly, it's typically used just for phone numbers and TODO list item.s

    Parent
    Excellent advice for Perry. (none / 0) (#64)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:04:22 PM EST
    And, while not free, as above, I offer these thoughts for little cost. Promises to eliminate the Department of Education are old hat, give it a rest, think new, think big, think bold. The people want huge ideas.  Promise to get rid of the Department of Defense in favor of a Department of Offense, after all the best defense is a good offense (sports metaphors are always good and besides, it fits you, since you are offensive), eliminate the Department of HHS, all that Obamacare will be sunk and your tea party fans will love it even more than they love Prince Herman Cain.  Health, you can underscore, is not for the governmint--it is between the citizen and his preacher.  And, promise transparency in government--after all you are the "cellophane man."   Oh, as for the cost for this advice, erase the name on the entry rock of your hunting camp and then crawl under it.

    Parent
    Did these tips come from the (none / 0) (#65)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:09:57 PM EST
    archives at the Reagan library?

    Or the Ted Baxter display at MTM Studios?

    I didn't see the debate, but I gather Perry's performance was cringe-worthy.  Not that he isn't generally cringe-worthy most of the time, but I'm guessing it went to a new level.

    I guess what really gets me is that people actually support someone like this - and like Cain and Bachmann and the rest of the Cavalcade of Clowns.

    It just boggles my mind.  

    Parent

    Yes, it was difficult to (none / 0) (#73)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:27:57 PM EST
    determine the most cringe-worthy, the candidates or the audience.

    Parent
    Yes I admit I want Rock to (none / 0) (#84)
    by brodie on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:50:46 PM EST
    get the GOP nom -- but probably not for the reason his remaining handful of supporters want him to win.

    Sadly however it appears Rock blew his big chance at the WH some weeks ago when he stumbled and staggered out of the starting gate in his first debate.  He actually seems to be getting worse.

    Although it's a tossup as to whether Rock is quite as dumb as Herm.

    Parent

    Whatever became of GWB innovation (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:56:38 PM EST
    of wearing a wire?

    Parent
    Early dementia? (none / 0) (#133)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:51:04 AM EST
    Honestly, he's not THAT dumb, but his memory failures would be disturbing to me if I were a member of his family.

    Parent
    from fox (none / 0) (#38)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:47:19 PM EST
    underneath headline it reads:

    Penn State replaces ousted head football coach Joe Paterno with Tom Bradley, above left, a longtime assistant who also coached with Jerry Sandusky, the ex-defensive coordinator facing multiple child sex-abuse charges. Bradley then confirmed that Mike McQueary, inset with Paterno, under fire for not calling police after allegedly witnessing Sandusky showering with a young boy, will remain on staff.

    Who wants to wager McQueary never witnessed any such thing?  

    Probably only you (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 01:58:52 PM EST
    He testified to a grand jury, under oath, subject to penalty of perjury.

    Parent
    ok cannot wait to see the next testimony (none / 0) (#56)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:40:19 PM EST
    on what he appeared to see.  

    Parent
    Go to Wikipedia and (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:54:04 AM EST
    look this stuff up.  This was a very long way from the first time Sandusky got caught doing bad stuff with little boys.  McQueary is, IMO, a creep for not stopping it, but his account is entirely credible not least because it's consistent with Sandusky's already long-established, um, habits.

    Parent
    Wager on Fox News' Accuracy ? (none / 0) (#44)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:12:27 PM EST
    Funny.

    Stewart had a clip of the infamous morning show clowns discussing 'these suspicious unnamed sources' in regards to Cain.  Discussion is a stretch, more rabid whining.  Then I swear in the middle of the discussion, some handed Kilmeade a sheet of paper.  He stopped the discussion to announce a source has just confirmed that the story was leaked by Perry working with Emanuel.

    Stewart's take, "Anonymous sources are bad unless they implicate Emanuel".

    Parent

    While FOX is the ultimate, (none / 0) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:24:43 PM EST
    perhaps we should at least consider the 33rd Statewide Investigating Grand Jury findings of fact and recommendations of charges to be penultimate.  Moreover, the Graduate Assistant (McQueary) testified to witnessing more than Sandusky "showering with a young boy".  The grand jury found  McQueary's testimony to be "extremely credible."  Of course, Sandusky will have his day in Court, and McQueary's testimony will be tested.

    Parent
    Oh, not just "showering" (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by jbindc on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 03:41:17 PM EST
    He testified that Sandusky had the boy up against a wall and appeared to be having anal sex with him.

    Ugh.

    Parent

    the allegations keep getting worse (none / 0) (#42)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:04:39 PM EST
    in that case. Here's a link to Huffington Post link ... Sandusky may have pimped out the kids in his Second Mile program.

    Oy (none / 0) (#43)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:05:26 PM EST
    To Rich Donors... (none / 0) (#51)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:28:17 PM EST
     ...I suspect this is going to have some effect beyond outrage.  I can't imagine any politician not taking advantage and legislation that I think is long over due, not reporting sex crimes against children, will be enacted in some form.

    The NCAA better take notice, maybe they didn't give an athlete some shoes or traded goods for signatures, but this is serious and it's the athletic department.

    If the allegations are true, all these 'men' disgust me beyond words.  At least Penn State has some super deep pockets for the victims.  I can not imagine being made to feel so helpless by powerful grow a$$ adults who fed this ahole kids.

    Parent

    More legislation is not needed (none / 0) (#132)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 01:01:29 AM EST
    as the Clery Act is federal law, covering all campuses, and is quite clear.

    What is needed is enforcement of the Clery Act, with some high-profile cases that cost campuses a lot of money.  We may just have hit that point.

    But I have thought so before, so we will see. . . .

    Parent

    NYPD undercover barber: (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:21:22 PM EST
    NYT

    Also sports related (and scary) (none / 0) (#60)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 02:57:10 PM EST
    Cain's lawyer fires warning shot (none / 0) (#111)
    by Yman on Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 06:17:41 PM EST
    ... at any potential new accusers, while saying it's not a warning.

    Heh.