That is all.
Make a new account
Except when trying to put together a Grand Bargain. Or when stirring up deficit hysteria. Or when embracing tax cuts as stimulative measures.
Etc...
Soon I'm sure he'll say, with tears in his eyes, "You just don't want me to be happy!" Parent
Why oh why did Johnson think it was a good idea to dance around the end zone pretending to shoot himself in the thigh, ala Plaxico Burress, and then to add insult to injury by mocking Santonio Holmes? The Bills got hit with a 15 yard penalty, and outstanding catches by Burress and Holmes sealed the win for the Jets.
Boy did the Jets get lucky...thanks Stevie! Parent
On a slightly different note, what is it with wide recievers and erratic behavior in general? Is it all the unprotected hits they take? I wonder sometimes. I tend to think it's something more than just a position-subculture thing..
Parent
If only the can teach him to pass in the off season. Parent
Can't vouch for the source. Parent
There's a reason NFL QBs must be able to throw. Parent
It is fascinating to watch this contraption that is the Denver offense rumble, bumble, stumble along, but they do win.....at least for now.
And Elway, (he of greatest arm strength in NFL history), watching in bewilderment and probably with some indigestion at his southpaw QB as he spits out passes. Great irony. Great story. Parent
When leaving Florida, Steve Spurrier speaking of the pressure at Florida said something like...if you don't win ten games each season you're a failure.
By comparison, at Ohio State you can win just one and be successful as long as it's against Michigan. Parent
When I lived in Littleton and was a very heavy air traveler I saw Muslims praying in public at DIA on a regular basis. Never felt threatened or had a desire to tell them to quit.
I mean I thought we have freedom of religion.
OTOH - Maybe his critics are just more observant than Teebow, and think that public displays of prayers at a football game are just silly. Personally, I think if there is a God, I hope he/she has bigger issues than an NFL game.
Mathew 5:5-5:6:
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
And I am familiar with Mathew. But then we have this.
.... if public prayer is not permitted, then just about every Christian service is seriously in error......it criticizes only that prayer in public that is motivated by a desire to show off. Prayer "may be offered in any circumstances, however open, if not promoted by the spirit of ostentation..." 1
And since you like Mathew:
Matthew 14:19: "...took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude." (KJV)
But then we know that Jesus went up to the mountain to pray alone. But then we have:
John 11:41b to 42: Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me."
Religious Tolerance
So is asking for a blessing or giving thanks for a successful football game a prayer?
I think so. Parent
... at some point, it gets kinda silly. Parent
Tebow is not the only athlete whose faith is right out there for all to see - I watched NFL Network's special Sound FX on Saturday night, which did an entire hour on Ravens/49ers, and there was a shot of Terrell Suggs - who had been an absolute beast on defense all night long - on the bench, sweat streaming off of him, with his head down, whispering "thank you, Jesus." Hey, whatever gets people through, right?
When they start having recitations of the Lord's Prayer at games, then I'll object - but it just isn't my place to judge whether someone - Tebow or anyone else - should refrain from any "public" expression of faith. After all, I might want to do it someday, and I sure don't want others sitting in judgment of me! Parent
If these guys were researchers looking for a cure for cancer, EMTs trying to save patient, or teachers praying for a way to get through to a difficult student, I could understand ... but they're not. They're guys trying to get a ball across a line, through a goalpost, or prevent another guy from doing the same thing. I just don't think God cares about a football game. Maybe it helps these guys personally to feel like God cares, but I'm not buying it, and I think in many cases the public displays of peity are for the consumption of the TV audience.
BTW - If you don't think people should judge them based on these public displays of their religion, why would you have a problem with the Lord's Prayer being recited? Parent
Everyone's faith - for those who have it - takes the form that is most meaningful to them, and isn't based on what others deem most meaningful or worthy of prayer. You don't know, and neither do I, where the universe is going to take us, but the experiences we have shape us, and sometimes determine the direction our lives will take. I happen to believe that we are each responsible for our own lives - but if my faith gives me support for that journey, for the decisions I make, for the paths I choose, who are you - who is anyone? - to judge whether that faith is meaningful or selfless enough?
I guess I just don't care for how you trivialize what you believe these athletes are praying for, demean them for doing something you've decided they're doing, and even managed to provide an assessment of what God thinks or feels; and this is based on what, exactly? Your feelings?
And, for what it's worth, there's a huge difference between an athlete's personal expression of faith, whether it's pointing skyward, or genuflecting, or bowing his head, and a stadium full of people being asked to stand and recite the Lord's Prayer. I am, quite honestly, a little surprised that you don't see that.
And yes, before you ask, I would also be fine with not being asked to stand for the playing of the national anthem at these events, because there is nothing about a football game that has anything to do with patriotism. Parent
Your essay should be widely published as an example of First Amendment understanding on a deep level.
As for the praying athletes, I trivialize their prayers because they're praying for something trivial, IMO. I'm not judging your faith or your need to pray to reach inside and motivate yourself to do something. I'm judging the motives of those who think that God should give a r@t's @ss about whether they're able to do something as noble and valuable as get a leather ball across a little, white line or kick it through some metal poles. Yes - in fact I do believe that any God worthy of prayer should have several million things that are of a higher priority than an NFL game. If you don't like that, well ...
... that's a shame. Parent
Does the term "strawman" ring a bell?
And we may have to leave it there; I'm not getting into a jim-style argument with you on this, because you clearly do not get it. Parent
Yeah - I get it that some people feel get motivated or inspired to do all sorts of things by saying a prayer when they feel the need. Whatever floats your boat. I just think it's silly to pretend that God is involved in an NFL game.
YMMV. Parent
And why does it matter so much to you how - or where - anyone chooses to express his or her faith, and why is it so important that you've granted yourself the special ability to see into people's minds and proclaim what it is they're praying for - and further render judgment that it's not important enough - to you, to the world? - to waste God's time with?
As for it being silly to think that God could be involved in a football game, I don't suppose it has occured to you that sports has been a way out of poverty and less-than-ideal family and living situations for a lot of young people; if any of those who use sports as a way out choose to thank God for that, and continue to show their appreciation for the opportunities, end up mentoring other athletes, give back to their communities, well, who is to say that God is not at work there, and it's silly to think God cares about football?
Perhaps God works in ways more mysterious than you are willing to give Him credit for.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as other people's religious beliefs are not legislatively forced on me, it's very much a live-and-let-live thing for me; it just seems like the best way to have my own views respected. Parent
As Nick Novak lined up a 53-yard field goal late in overtime, Tim Tebow could not bear to look. He sat on the bench, helmet in his hands and tried to find comfort in a familiar place. So he prayed. "Obviously, I want to win," Tebow said when asked about the intentions of his prayer. "But no matter what happens, good or bad, I want to have an opportunity to give my lord and savior credit for whatever." So he wasn't praying for Novak to miss? "I might have said that," Tebow said with a laugh. "Or maybe a block. Maybe all of it."
So he prayed.
"Obviously, I want to win," Tebow said when asked about the intentions of his prayer. "But no matter what happens, good or bad, I want to have an opportunity to give my lord and savior credit for whatever."
So he wasn't praying for Novak to miss?
"I might have said that," Tebow said with a laugh. "Or maybe a block. Maybe all of it."
As I said, I really don't care much about Teebow's (or any other NFL player's) public displays of their religious beliefs. I just think it's beyond silly to think that God was responsible for scoring points (or the other team not scoring points) in a football game. I think it's preposterous to think that Gos cares in the slightest which team wins a game. Moreover, while the players have every right to drop to their knees, point to the sky, bow their heads, or do whatever else they want to do to demonstrate their peity for the world to see, I have the right to judge anyone who thinks that God is responsible for their getting the ball across the line, or for the other team missing a field goal. For some reason, that really bothers you.
I guess you'll have to get over it. Parent
It strikes me that someone who truly did not care about Tebow's - or anyone's - public expressions of faith would not find it necessary to then trivialize and demean him, and by extension anyone who dares to express faith as an athlete, by asserting your opinion - I'm sorry, your judgment - that God couldn't possibly care about sports and anyone who thinks He does is just being silly.
I guess I'm not as confident as you are that I know what God finds important and what He doesn't...
Oh, well...I don't think I need to get over your right to judge, as much as you need to get over yourself; I'd suggest you pray for some help with that, but aside from the fact that it isn't my place to tell anyone what he or she should pray for, you may be screwed because God might have more important requests to listen to - at least according to the standards you've set for God's priorities.
Wow - no ego there, eh, Yman? Parent
what athletes are praying for, and suggesting that - your handy-dandy quoted material notwithstanding - it's a global assumption you have no basis for making.
I have absolutely no basis for making the assumption that these athletes are praying to win the game. Well, except for the fact that most of these expressions of faith occur immediately after they score, or (as in the Teebow example) when the other team is trying to kick a field goal or otherwise score to win the game. Maybe you're right ... maybe scoring points gives these athletes the sudden urge to pray for world peace, and end to hunger, a cure for disease, etc. You have every right to engage in that self-delusion if you wish, but don't expect me to ignore the obvious. Then, of course, there's the fact that Teebow was specifically asked about his praying and admitted what he was praying for. Yeah, ... maybe we should just leave that "handy-dandy quoted material aside".
Heh.
BTW - You - of all people - may want to watch yourself up on that high horse of yours - lecturing people about refraining from judging others. We all judge people for what they do and say - every single day of our lives. Apparently, you've decided that no one should judge others based upon how they decide to express their faith.
Good for you.
I disagree.
Moreover, I could easily come up with numerous examples where you would decide to judge others based upon how they express their religious beliefs. So it's not a question of whether we judge others based upon their religious beliefs ... it's a question of where we draw the line. I choose to draw the line in a different spot, although as I've indicated all along, it's not an issue I care much about. The players are free to pray to God to win the game or thank God for winning the game. I'm free to think God has much more important things to worry about. As I said, if that bothers you so much, well ..
... I guess you'll have to learn to deal with it.
Watch yourself getting down, now ... that's a mighty tall equine. Parent
I wouldn't mind it if Tibetan Buddhists were to worship overtly in public.....
I don't care that Tebow does it too....
Gingrich on the other hand.....pure yuck, pure politics Parent
Thousands of years from now, the remnants of our society will be the statues, busts, and stadiums.....
We worship and idolize the players.....
Or, one could say we are just going back to our ancient Greek roots....and gods and heroes from that era--Hercules, Atlas, Achilles, Ajax. Parent
Other regions it's far more of a sane situation comparatively and most coaches don't have to worry about death threats when they fail to win the Big Game. At least not out here in laid back CA. Parent
If Bellotti is offered the job and accepts it that could stir things up with the Oregon staff. A couple of Ducks' assistant coaches could move with Mike to UCLA.
In other head coaching news, Urban Meyer is heading to Columbus, Ohio as the Buckeyes new head football coach. Parent
I know the TV stations are not exactly quaking in their boots at the loss of my viewership...I am hardly their target market, since I never buy Bud or Miller or Doritos. Parent
What I don't get is why our heathen harping on the Jesus fetish bothers some believers so...it don't seem to bother Tebow, he seems to expect it, as should all those who wear their religion on their sleeve.
If you're secure in your beliefs a little ribbing shouldn't bother ya...besides, we're non-believers...what do we know, we are damned! lol:) Parent
It's fun to be a Bronco fan again.
I'm not really up on all the particulars of Denver's offensive schemes, or their personnel issues - as in, does Tebow have enough weapons to throw to - but as a Ravens fan, who remembers quite well the 2000 Super Bowl season, where Trent Dilfer managed an offense that failed, in five consecutive games, to score a touchdown - and still found ways to win with field goals - I don't understand why people are so up in arms about Tebow-ball and, in spite of the streak of wins, are still deeming it impossible for the Broncos to win while playing it.
True, it's a much more pass-happy league than it was a decade ago - even the rules have changed to make it more so - but the other component that has to be present for it all to work is a smothering defense - one that can prevent teams from scoring, period. I'm not sure Denver has that component to the extent it would need it against teams with better offenses.
It just annoys me when I hear commentators saying that teams shouldn't be able to do this or that, when the evidence that they can is happening right in front of them. But then, I am not overly impressed these days with most of the network guys covering games; I'm pretty sick of them having these meaningless "conversations" between themselves and failing to actually call plays or pay attention to what's happening on the field. Gregg Gumbel and Dan Dierdorff are one example of a team I simply cannot stand to listen to - they are next to useless, in my opinion.
Anyway - I'm for anything that makes it fun to watch one's team play; if Tebow's getting it done for Denver, more power to him, and more power to the coaches who are helping it happen. Parent
He deserves more press along with the rest of the Bronco Defense. Parent
I can never remember a QB whose running prowess was ever featured as a key component of the offensive game plan.
Most teams don't want to get their QBs killed. Parent
And you can't brace for what you don't see -- one of these games a kamikaze linebacker or DB is going to go flying at his head or knees with tremendous velocity and that will be the end of the brief era of Tebow running fearlessly around the field every other play. Not recommending anything, just saying this is the NFL and that's how it usually ends up for young QBs used to running a lot. Parent
I expect Tebow to follow in this tradition -- fewer designed running plays as his pocket passing skills evolve and as he gets hit hard more often from running too much. Parent
Something is different if the first thing to look at on Monday morning is the sports page in the Post. There, sportwriter Mark Kiszla wrote: "In recent days, I've heard a barber in Montana and a rental-car agent in California both testify they are not Broncos fans but have started cheering for Tebow because pro sports cry out for more inherent goodness." That's an interesting comment...which might have something to it, much broader than a religious proclamation. For example, some years back, a number of players had various (and sometimes petty) criminal charges, etc. lodged against them...also, while we didn't have any animal cruelty issues involving teams members, we had our share of immature acting-out where the wannabe "coach" McDaniels made more headlines clashing with his pouty quarterback than for any positive game reasons...etc.
It feels good to watch the team start to cohere with this quarterback...and win. It feels good to be rid of the bad-boy-stupid acts in recent Denver vintage. And, for me, it feels good especially to confound the "experts" (if only for a time.)
As for the running game: 'Seems you have to go back pretty far to find that type of running. Maybe an old Chicago team? Parent
Yep, IMO & as you point out, Brees and others (K. Warner) were/are example of good guy-ness.
Without putting on blinders, that increasingly rare good guy-ness quality among top professional athletes has an allure of itself that we want to cheer. For one thing, it softens the obvious $$$-driven hardness of big time sport. Parent
In addition to the ones you have mentioned, also add Warrick Dunn to your list. Parent
Ah well, I'm sure he'll be just as comfortable in the announcers booth...