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Sully's CDS Moment Of The Day

The unrepentant sexist Andrew Sullivan:

Quote For The Day

"God bless [Clinton]" - Karl Rove, on the secretary of state's success in starting the war in Libya.

(Emphasis supplied.) Poor hen pecked Obama sez Sully. It's no wonder he is a Tweety favorite.

Speaking for me only

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    Have (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:46:53 PM EST
    you noticed that in a lot of ways this is just more of the "impotent president" theme?

    It is (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:53:49 PM EST
    God knows the guy couldn't do so much of everything before this because it would be too decisive and rock the boat too much, and now a bunch of women are taking turns packing his balls around in their purses.  What's next....?

    Oh Yeah, the part that if everything goes wrong - he wasn't the one who did anything.  And the evil women, having gone so horribly wrong and full of shame will I guess hand him back his balls so he can then save the world as it should be done and would have been done if it wasn't for the evil women :)

    Parent

    attack of the 150-foot woman borg (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:45:49 PM EST
    well (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:04:38 PM EST
    look on the bright side.  he finally found a war he didnt like.

    while it was happening I mean.

    (lets not tell him we are not actually at war with Libya).

    Do you (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:05:58 PM EST
    know what he said about Kosovo? I bet he was against that one CDS and all...

    Parent
    The man is so much drama (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:08:13 PM EST
    The only time he doesn't sound like drama to me is during the primaries when we are all drama :)

    Parent
    When I first read that (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:19:44 PM EST
    Ambassador Rice, Professor Power and Secretary Clinton were the trio (not known to be always on the same page)  that substantially influenced the president's action, I felt it was an orchestrated move by the White House in an attempt to distance the president from another war.  The trip to Brazil and Chile was not cancelled and was continued in the interest of "jobs", with no distraction from winning the future.

    For the past two years, we hardly saw or heard from most Cabinet officers (other than Gates and Geithner-- and even Clinton kept her head down).  Indeed, letting them play the softer humanitarian role against the steadfast, cautious yet manly response of other (male) advisors seems to be the intention. It seems doubtful to me that President Obama would be worried about "nagging", after all, President Clinton was influenced by Madeline Albright, who when UN Ambassador, took on Powell and his doctrine with the argument "what's the point of having that superb military you are always talking about if we can't use it."

    If you would have asked me (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:29:41 PM EST
    a few days ago, I wouldn't have been able to name Susan Rice.  I had forgotten about her and Power.

    Parent
    Yes, and the anonymous, (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:05:22 PM EST
    un-refuted sources with this inside information (approved leak) could not come up with a single male in the State Department, UN or national security council of equal  status and prominence of Power, for example, who was on their  team. This all seemed deliberate, de-emphasizing the "strategic" (i.e, oil)  and emphasizing the humanitarian, while at once attempting to give the president some distancing from the decision.

    Parent
    can't stand Sully (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by desmoinesdem on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:47:40 PM EST
    Why so many people read his blog is totally beyond me. In the spring of 2008 few things irritated me more on blogs than the Obama supporter refrain, "Andrew Sullivan nailed it again!"

    That "fifth column" quote BTD posted earlier was even worse in the original version--Sullivan said liberal elites "could well mount a fifth column," then later revised the post to "could well mount what amounts to a fifth column."

    If you weren't an Obama fan (none / 0) (#53)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:25:46 PM EST
    you probably weren't going to like Sullivan very much.

    Parent
    That is the stupidest thing (5.00 / 7) (#58)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:45:45 PM EST
    you have written yet.

    It implies that you liker him BECAUSE you are an Obama fan, and ignore the truly atrocious public career of Andrew Sullivan.

    This may surprise you, but not everything is about Obama.

    You have been awful today in your comments imo.

    Parent

    And why would any (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:09:54 PM EST
    Obama fan want the President portrayed as being lead reluctantly into a war by someone else whose pressure he could not resist? Makes him look weak and non-presidential.  The fan-thing cuts both ways.

    Parent
    Kinda does (none / 0) (#76)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:15:14 PM EST
    make it seem that the "3 a.m." commericial might have been a little too close to the truth,then.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#79)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:25:31 PM EST
    I don't quite see it in that way because I don't view stubbornness and inability to take advice as being a bad thing.  What I believe happened was that everyone was pretty against intervention, Ghaddafi became more violent and a group within the WH made a strong case for why a change in policy was appropriate. And Obama was persuaded.

    That's exactly what I want my POTUS doing.

    I don't care about appearances.

    I care about him making the right decisions.  I believe this was the right decision.  I am happy he was persuaded. I give him credit for being flexible enough to change based on the circumstances and the advice of his advisors.

    I think it's one of Obama's strengths.  He doesn't always come to the conclusion that I want (i.e. Afghanistan) but I know he has studied the issue closely and listened to all of the voices in the room.

    Parent

    You are irrational (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:32:37 PM EST
    The point is that your new hero Andrew Sullivsn is arguing that that is NOT what happened.

    Instead, Obama the Weak was browbeaten by 3 harpies, the chief harpy being Hillary Clinton, into the Libya intervention against his better judgment.

    My gawd, your comments are simply nonsensical now.

    Parent

    He's not my hero (none / 0) (#98)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 07:43:04 PM EST
    He's just a guy I read. Agree with some stuff. Disagree with other stuff.

    I see no need to demonize him because of anything he's written.

    He's a conservative who saw bush for what he was and voted accordingly.

    That's generally what we want. Has he said sexist and racist stuff. Probably. But not to the extent that I would label him a racist for example. That's pretty much it.

    Parent

    You don't read Sully, (5.00 / 3) (#103)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 08:18:11 PM EST
    He's not a "guy you read," he's just a guy who's in the tank for Obama and that's all you know or care about.

    Has he said sexist and racist stuff. Probably.

    Probably?  What, you don't have an opinion?  Can't say for sure?  

    But not to the extent that I would label him a racist for example.

    So, where's the line for you?  Would he be racist or sexist if he were "in the tank" for a Republican?  

    Do you need the context of whose side someone is on before you decide whether their words are offensive?  Because that's what you seem to think the rest of us need to do, so I have to think that that's how you do it.

    Un-freakin'-believable.

    Parent

    How many (none / 0) (#104)
    by chrisvee on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 08:21:47 PM EST
    sexist things does one have to say before one is sexist, I wonder????

    Parent
    I'm guessing that it all depends on (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 08:32:06 PM EST
    which political leader the person supports; good to know that situational ethics is alive and well, eh?

    Parent
    Good Question (none / 0) (#111)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Mar 24, 2011 at 07:53:30 AM EST
    And actually one that is crucial to any mature understanding of sexism, racism and bigotry.

    Clearly there is a line between the good hearted person who makes one (or even a number of) unfortunate statements and those who have a real animosity (conscious or unconscious) towards members of a particular group.

    For example, do I think Harry Reid is a racist for using the word Negro and some other unfortunate statements? No.  Do I think Hillary Clinton or Bill Clinton were racist for some unfortunate things they have said? No.  Do I think Obama is a sexist for using the word "sweetie"? No.

    Do I think Andrew Sullivan is a racist or a sexist for unfortunate statements he's made in the past? No.

    So where do I draw the line: between unfortunate statements and actual bigotry.

    Easy answer: Pat Buchanan.

    Parent

    If you can reduce Andrew Sullivan's (none / 0) (#113)
    by Anne on Thu Mar 24, 2011 at 09:15:14 AM EST
    blatant and unrepentant misogyny and racism to "unfortunate statements," I am more convinced than ever that you don't read  - or haven't read him.

    This shtick you have going where you think you can guess what some public figure's positions and history are by how they are perceived in the media and elsewhere, or by who they support, where they work or how popular they are, and then pretend you are actually familiar with those positions or statements, just isn't working here.  

    We're onto it.


    Parent

    being or not being an Obama "fan" (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:49:31 PM EST
    has squat to do w/whether or not Sully is a misogynist

    imo, Sully's views as expressed by Sully's own words are what make Sully a misogynist

    Parent

    OK (none / 0) (#1)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:26:02 PM EST
    1.  I don't think Sullivan is an unrepentant sexist.  I think he was pro-Obama and anti-Hillary early on and that was instantly the way that he was portrayed, but nothing I've read supports your assertion.  I think he's as sexist as Biden is racist for his unfortunate comments about Obama.  I look at "look he's a sexist" comments like those from the folks at Shakesville (link) and it doesn't support the assertion.

    2. T/F: Clinton was instrumental in convincing Obama to go to war.

    "T" I think.I mean that is the story: Link

    Honestly, I just think many on the left just don't like Sullivan.  To give him credit though, he is roasting Obama unmercifully on the topic of the war and pulling no punches.

    3. No idea how Tweety plays into this discussion in any way, but I'd rather a nationally known opinion maker be in the tank for Obama than for a republican. You talk about Tweety being a fan of the democratic president as if the alternative is better.

    I have a radical idea (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:28:47 PM EST
    How about people who are held up as "national renowned journalists" not be in any politician's tank?  How about they do their d@mn job and quit falling in love with personalities - you remember what journalism is supposed to look like, don't you?  Question everything - especially those people you personally like.

    I know - crazy ideas.

    And Sullivan IS a sexist.  He just doesn't like a woman who has more cojones than he does.

    Parent

    I don't think (none / 0) (#37)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:11:04 PM EST
    Tweety or Maddow or Beck or Hannity are journalists.
    I think they are entertainers and opinion makers.

    Again, I am looking for evidence that Sullivan is a sexist.  Not that he made a dumb statement here or there.  We all do that. But that he really has an issue with women.

    i have this really creepy and uncomfortable feeling that if he were straight, he wouldn't be getting these types of accusations.  

    Parent

    so you're saying (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:42:11 PM EST
    that homophobia on the left is driving the accusation?


    Parent
    because (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:47:07 PM EST
    if thats what you are saying you should quit while you are ahead.

    Parent
    I am saying that (none / 0) (#54)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:29:32 PM EST
    There were a number of discussions about why Sullivan, of all of the various bloggers that supported Obama, was directly vilified as a sexist, despite the fact that others made far more questionable comments.  

    I think his sexuality has something to do with that, yes.

    Parent

    sorry (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:34:19 PM EST
    I think you are wrong.  I disliked Sully long before 2008.  and so did many others.  and his history of misogyny is rich and well documented.  and to BTDs point about Tweety, I believe he meant that was because Tweety also has a problem with women that is fairly rich and well documented.

    Parent
    "women" (1.00 / 1) (#59)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:47:06 PM EST
    of course, in no shape or form possibly being code for Mrs Clinton..

    perish the thought..

    Parent

    just as everything is not about Obama (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:50:26 PM EST
    everything is not about Hillary.  he has written things that insulted many women other than Hillary.

    Parent
    How about the fact (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:42:54 PM EST
    That he was a right-winger until he disagreed with Bush and then began his crush on Obama?

    Parent
    Changing your mind (none / 0) (#81)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:26:46 PM EST
    is underrated.

    Parent
    That's just moronic (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:48:47 PM EST
    of course it is.. (none / 0) (#65)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:51:00 PM EST
    btw, is this the last time we can expect to see The Nation referenced here for another year?

    Parent
    You wouldn't have to look far, (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 03:16:37 PM EST
    but you actually would have to look, and I don't know - that might mess with your ability to keep defending Sullivan just because he supports Obama.

    Parent
    your accusation (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:13:14 PM EST
    about dislike of homosexuals driving the criticism is utterly offensive.  

    Parent
    Especially since a few of the people (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:23:24 PM EST
    doing the criticizing are openly gay.  

    Parent
    We HATE gay people around here (none / 0) (#80)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:25:41 PM EST
    Didn't you get the memo?

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#91)
    by MO Blue on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:44:18 PM EST
    Can't wait to go to the next Obama Donnie McCurkin gospel concert. How about you? Should be one scheduled sometime in 2012. L-(

    Parent
    I'm hoping (none / 0) (#92)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:45:16 PM EST
    to win backstage passes.

    Parent
    Well for starters (none / 0) (#40)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:24:25 PM EST
    He had a non stop barrage about how Trig Palin really wasn't Sarah's baby, but Bristol's (never mind that he can't explain how Bristol gave birth to another child before a full gestation period had elapsed).

    Think he'd say something like that about a male politician like (cough) Obama?

    Parent

    Here's an decent take (none / 0) (#42)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:27:24 PM EST
    So (none / 0) (#57)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:43:44 PM EST
    I'm going to need you to reference something other than an affiliate of Redstate.org for your support on this one.

    Parent
    Of course, (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:55:09 PM EST
    If you can't argue the facts, attack the messenger.

    Parent
    What's funny, jb, is that most of the (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:15:58 PM EST
    message ABG is rejecting on the basis of your link is coming directly from Sullivan's own writing - where it gets re-printed doesn't change how ugly it is.

    Yeesh.

    Parent

    The message (none / 0) (#82)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:27:53 PM EST
    was filled with a bunch of stuff about killing unborn babies and the way that opposition to Israel meant you hate jewish people and stuff.  I kind of stopped reading after that.

    Parent
    Of course you did (none / 0) (#84)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:31:18 PM EST
    Because the point after that (which was NOT about killing babies) was about Sullivan's obsession with Trig Palin.  Which proves my point.

    Thanks for proving it.

    Parent

    You are just embarrassing yourself now (none / 0) (#62)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:49:36 PM EST
    About "evidence" & misogyny (none / 0) (#47)
    by christinep on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 03:13:48 PM EST
    Since I do not read Sullivan any more, the specifics you require I cannot give. Rather, I can say that my decision not to read in light of the obvious CDS was reinforced by scanned comments wherein I asked myself the question: Is there any strong woman--in a relatively power position in the US--about whom Sullivan has written a sentence containing positive words? (I'm still curious about that, but not spurred enough by him to look further.)

    We reach impressions by various means. As for Sullivan, I confess: He strikes me as one enamoured of his voice and bound up by his serpentine written words. Intuitively, his image to me is that of one taking offense to cover up defense. At this point, my opinions of him are just that opinionated...sort of the way I recall his writing. He seems to feel comfortable enough to say that a few (notably women) repel him, and--in brief--I feel that way about him.

    Parent

    Too bad (none / 0) (#64)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:50:48 PM EST
    He created one of the most trafficked political blogs on the web based on his way with words and his cross party takes on the news.  He deserves to be cocky.

    He's one of the few with conservative leanings who will support a democrat, speak out against the church, and simultaneously blast Obama as he's doing this week.

    We need voices like that and I think he fills a valuable role as a representative of an unacknowledged middle.  A middle that those on the extremes don't respect.

    Parent

    it's a free country (sort of) (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:52:30 PM EST
    & you are entitled to your stupid opinion

    Parent
    It's not hard to drive traffic on a blog; (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:12:39 PM EST
    write red-meat posts that insult and inflame and - voila! - there's your traffic.  It's why people like Ann Coulter used to sell books, and why Rush Limbaugh has the ratings he has - doesn't mean that what is offered is valuable in any sense of the word.

    It has been my observation that conservatives who support Obama do so because so many of his policies lean that way - there's a kinship and an identification that wouldn't be there with truly liberal policies.

    And no, we don't need Andrew Sullivan's misogynistic and racist point of view; if that's the middle, there's a reason why it isn't respected, because even though it comes with a lovely, plummy British accent, it's ugly - why you would want to be a part of that is beyond my ability to understand.  The political fortunes of one man simply cannot be so important that you could find ways to make the ideas Sullivan represents acceptable.

    I must say, you have really outdone yourself today - and not in a good way.

    Parent

    Why did Tina Brown hire him then Anne? (none / 0) (#87)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:36:04 PM EST
    To Anne, but really to all those I've talked to today, one of the best arguments I have against the proposition that Sullivan is racist and/or sexist is his hiring by Tina Brown at the Daily Beast.

    Tina Brown, new EIC of the Daily Beast and Newsweek is one of the most feminist leaders in the media.

    If what was said here about Sullivan is even half true, it tells me that (a) Tina Brown hates women and minorities or (b) more likely, that the comments here are a little overblown.

    I would never claim to defend everything Sullivan says but the idea that he's this fire breathing, woman hating, anti-semitic lunatic is just silly.

    At least that's what I get from Tina Brown here: Link

    Parent

    Tina Brown? (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:39:06 PM EST
    "Tina Brown, new EIC of the Daily Beast and Newsweek is one of the most feminist leaders in the media."

    You have got to be kidding me.

    Being a woman does not make you a feminist.

    Yet again, you prove you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Parent

    oh lordy (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:54:59 PM EST
    apart from the fact that Tina Brown is not everyone's idea of "one of the most feminist leaders in the media" (& no, i am not going to debate that point w/you), what you are actually saying is that Andrew Sullivan can't be a misogynist b/c Tina Brown hired him

    it's also true that newspapers across the country, including many "mainstream" papers, carried James Kilpatrick's column - i guess this means that Kilpatrick was never a pro-segregation bigot, right?

    Parent

    Tina Brown is in the business of (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by shoephone on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 06:56:02 PM EST
    making money. As a publisher, that is her number one goal. And that requires driving traffic to her site by way of provocation and red meat, eg., hiring on people like Sullivan.

    And so ends another episode of simple answers to simple questions.

    I'm really enjoying all your theories on what constitutes a feminist, though. Keep 'em comin'.

    Parent

    Because (none / 0) (#90)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:39:53 PM EST
    Tina Brown hates Sarah Palin as much and as irrationally as Sullivan?

    Parent
    I call "bull" (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by christinep on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:53:46 PM EST
    Sullivan represents no middle.  Being one in the middle (or, typically, a bit left of center), I think that the middle is recognizable. Sullivan is only in the middle when it comes to elitism. (And, yes, I am rather sorry for falling to the kind of name-calling that I usually decry. But, hey, none of us is perfect.)  Seriously, ABG, I respect many people. In fact, all people are entitled to respect. But, the challenge for me to regard Sullivan other than as one full of himself--and, no, I do not believe in entitlement to be cocky--is too large for me to consider at this time. (Though, in the spirit of Lent, I will try.)

    Again, can you show me any strong positive statements he has made about any strong positive women of power in the US?  

    Parent

    How so (none / 0) (#99)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 07:45:44 PM EST
    He's a social liberal who favors drug legalization and choice. He opposes additional war and wants us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. He supports a public option. He supports lgbt issues. a little

    Parent
    Since you didn't answer Christine's question, (5.00 / 0) (#102)
    by shoephone on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 07:52:28 PM EST
    I'm going to repeat it:

    "Again, can you show me any strong positive statements he has made about any strong positive women of power in the US?"

    Parent

    He's not even (none / 0) (#72)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:09:09 PM EST
    in the top 100 blogs

    Parent
    Andrew Sullivan is #18 (none / 0) (#83)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:30:43 PM EST
    on the link you just sent.

    And rising.

    Parent

    More (none / 0) (#49)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 03:18:03 PM EST
    On the January 28 edition of the NBC-syndicated Chris Matthews Show, discussing the potential 2008 presidential candidacies of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) and Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL), Time blogger Andrew Sullivan said "when I see [Clinton] ... all the cootie vibes sort of resurrect themselves."

    Link
    Yeah - I can see that being said about a man.

    Another good one - apparently Sullivan thinks he's a scientist.

    Since most men have at least 10 times as much T as most women, it therefore makes sense not to have coed baseball leagues. Equally, it makes sense that women will be underrepresented in a high-testosterone environment like military combat or construction. When the skills required are more cerebral or more endurance-related, the male-female gap may shrink, or even reverse itself. But otherwise, gender inequality in these fields is primarily not a function of sexism, merely of common sense. This is a highly controversial position, but it really shouldn't be. Even more unsettling is the racial gap in testosterone. Several solid studies, published in publications like Journal of the National Cancer Institute, show that black men have on average 3 to 19 percent more testosterone than white men. This is something to consider when we're told that black men dominate certain sports because of white racism or economic class rather than black skill. This reality may, of course, feed stereotypes about blacks being physical but not intellectual. But there's no evidence of any trade-off between the two. To say that someone is physically gifted is to say nothing about his mental abilities, as even N.F.L. die-hards have come to realize. Indeed, as Jon Entine points out in his new book, "Taboo," even the position of quarterback, which requires a deft mix of mental and physical strength and was once predominantly white, has slowly become less white as talent has been rewarded. The percentage of blacks among N.F.L. quarterbacks is now twice the percentage of blacks in the population as a whole.


    Parent
    jbinc (none / 0) (#67)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:54:01 PM EST
    You should be able to see Sullivan saying it about a man because he did say it about a man named McCain:

    Link

    I have absolutely no problem with his discussions of testosterone, the Bell Curve or any of that stuff.  Pundits talk often and regularly about topics they aren't expert in. No issues with that here, and I think the taboo about the things in the quotes above are not helpful.

    Let's have the discussion.

    Parent

    This tells me a lot (5.00 / 5) (#70)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:01:20 PM EST
    "I have absolutely no problem with his discussions of testosterone, the Bell Curve or any of that stuff."

    Endorsing and promoting racist and sexist claptrap is A-Ok with you, so long as you support Obama.

    Sickening.

    Parent

    Uhhmmmm (none / 0) (#100)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 07:48:11 PM EST
    I'm black.
    Discussing an issue isn't endorsing anything and I vehemently disagree with the bell curve. I am just not in favor of labeling someone a racist on the basis of good faith discussion.

    I think that is the reasonable position to have.

    Parent

    Whatever (none / 0) (#106)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 08:44:00 PM EST
    Frankly, after today, I'm really not much interested in discussing much of anything with you.

    Parent
    Please discuss (none / 0) (#69)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 04:56:44 PM EST
    His irrational obession with Trig Palin being Bristol's child.

    Parent
    Seriously ABG (none / 0) (#97)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 07:34:43 PM EST
    You're among friends here. Let us in on the game.  Tell us how much Obama for America is paying you to spew unadulterated Obama worship.  I have friends that are out of work and could use some extra cash.

    Parent
    I hate this (none / 0) (#108)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 23, 2011 at 09:39:22 AM EST
    labeling someone a "paid commenter" translates to having nothing left to say.

    Parent
    There IS nothng left to say (none / 0) (#109)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 23, 2011 at 11:25:27 AM EST
    When one will twist himelf into a preztel that a circus acrobat would be jealous of, just to defend someone, nothing amount of logic or reason or evidence will change his mind.

    Parent
    fine (none / 0) (#110)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 23, 2011 at 11:28:57 AM EST
    say that.  dont accuse him of being a paid commenter.   its lame.

    Parent
    Obama Derangement Syndrome (none / 0) (#112)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Mar 24, 2011 at 08:20:49 AM EST
    is a disease most often missed diagnosed by those most likely to accuse others of CDS.

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    Gotta love (none / 0) (#71)
    by chrisvee on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:07:24 PM EST
    Sully's take on why Hillary is an anti-feminist. One of his greatest hits.

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    That is a large group of women... (none / 0) (#41)
    by smott on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:24:41 PM EST
    :-D

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    You have no idea what you (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:29:06 PM EST
    are talking about.

    That you defend Bell Curve Sully is surprising. And frankly, disappointing.

    Parent

    iirc (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by nycstray on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:31:55 PM EST
    he seemed to think HRC's only claim to fame was that she was married to WJC . . . .

    Parent
    The bell curve (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:49:39 PM EST
    thing leave me wondering why ANYONE would bother defending Sully. I used to read him when he was talking about that. Are people too stupid to realize that the bell curve is basically the tenets of the KKK regurgitated?

    Parent
    "Predictable" was the word that came to (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:54:59 PM EST
    mind for me, especially when I got to the "nothing I have read supports your assertion" part; I can only conclude that he hasn't read Sully much, if at all.

    The general theme is that nothing matters as long as one supports Obama - especially if that someone has a national audience.

    Sully not sexist?  That's just crazy talk, I tell you, crazy.

    Parent

    a lot of people (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by desmoinesdem on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:48:44 PM EST
    have forgotten about The Bell Curve and Sullivan's role in hyping that trash.

    Parent
    OK (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:46:45 PM EST
    1.  I know Sully is an unrepentant sexist :)

    2.  So, a bunch of women made Obama's mind up for him and he doesn't know his own mind?  All this bullshit about women making the decions to literally include the final decision on this is pathetic.  Anyone thinking I'm going to allow the fruit picking from the tree of knowledge vagina be your fall guy again has got another think coming :)


    Parent
    Lets hear it for your comments, MT (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by christinep on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 03:19:16 PM EST
    You pinpointed it. Sullivan has used the ruse of the "castrating b** woman" to skewer the woman and take down the man as well. The old categorize-the-woman-you-argue-against as b** or bimbo routine. Trite Andy.

    Parent
    Well, Michielle IS a tough woman.. :) (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:56:30 PM EST
    Any women heading to the White House (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:03:26 PM EST
    these days had better be able to eat nails and pee lemonade.  There is nowhere to hide that some vile branch of the press isn't going to come after you in this day :)  And they go after your kids too.

    Parent
    Sasha and Malia (none / 0) (#15)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:09:21 PM EST
    could probably take on most of the press corps.  :)

    Parent
    Ya think? (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:16:22 PM EST
    Of course many people on the left don't like Sullivan. He was a level 1 conservative columnist/blogger long before he became an 'Obama over Hillary' supporter in 2008. In fact a candidate that had his approval should have been a huge red flag to the left. It wod have been if so many weren't on board with his CDS riddled sexism. That is the source of much of the latent resentment- many on the so-called left chose to side with Andrew Sullivan over their long-time supporters. Luckily there are still enough of us left to dislike him on behalf of the left.

    Parent
    I thought he was fine (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:17:46 PM EST
    Until he called me a cosmic baby murdering super slut.

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    you realize (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:20:08 PM EST
    most of the world is jealous of you for that?

    Sully silliness goes way back.  all the way to bare back.


    Parent

    I have Molly Shannon in her (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:25:56 PM EST
    Catholic school uniform dancing around in my head now.  But instead of declaring herself a Super Star she says Super Slut :)  I'm going outside now to practice on a tree.

    Parent
    Will you get (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:32:19 PM EST
    A cool costume like this for being Super Slut?  :)

    Parent
    still (none / 0) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:36:12 PM EST
    slightly less slutty than this

    Parent
    Old School vs. New and Improved? (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:37:20 PM EST
    Can't have too many lassos (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:38:45 PM EST
     

    Parent
    Sadly (none / 0) (#52)
    by sj on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 03:33:16 PM EST
    I knew exactly what was at that link without checking.  And was pretty sure about Capt Howdy's, too.

    Unlike current events which I often have to look up.

    And may I say --  in a comment that is somewhat, if peripherally, on topic -- now that is a powerful woman.

    Parent

    You mean he says that to all the girls? (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 07:13:40 PM EST
    I thought I was special.

    Parent
    As for the Super Slut part (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:21:06 PM EST
    Takes one to know one Sully

    Parent
    He really did? (none / 0) (#29)
    by sj on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:47:09 PM EST
    I am in awe of you.

    Parent
    No silly (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:51:09 PM EST
    He said that liberal pro-life women were baby killing sluts who sleep around and then get abortions to fix things, stuff like that.  And then as Capt pointed out, shortly after that Sully's personal ad for sex was found and he said bareback was fine with him :)  Just another unsafe unprotected slut out there :)

    Parent
    sadly (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:53:16 PM EST
    he learned that most people are not interested in unprotected sex with fat hairy guys.


    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by sj on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:56:33 PM EST
    and LOL again!!

    [Okay, so I have a mean streak.]

    Parent

    Oops...I just read my comment (none / 0) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 03:00:47 PM EST
    Liberal Pro-choice women, not liberal pro-life women....sorry....confusing.  But then didn't he get really phucked up over Palin and say that her having Trig was a pathetic shot at attempting to credential herself pro-life?  Everything I read from him is secondhand because I won't go to his site anymore.  He can piss off, enough people go there for me.  He really is the scummiest of scum where women are concerned.

    Parent
    MT (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 03:19:25 PM EST
    EVERYONE is "pro-life".  Some are just "anti-choice"  :)

    Parent
    Oh okay (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by sj on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:02:04 PM EST
    the usual stuff then.  I stopped reading him let me see ...

    You know I can't recall exactly when that was, but I recently encountered some notes when I first discovered Eschaton - "Middle C on the Mighty Casio" and watched as his site meter climbed to an amazing 60K views.

    That's about when I stopped reading Sully.

    Parent

    Can you send a link to that quote? (none / 0) (#38)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:15:54 PM EST
    No (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 02:17:56 PM EST
    Ok (none / 0) (#101)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 07:49:50 PM EST
    Sully does (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:34:28 PM EST
    believe in the "Bell Curve"....ever heard of that?

    One of his quotes: ""The notion that there might be resilient ethnic differences in intelligence is not, we believe, an inherently racist belief."

    Whether or not Sully is a sexist, he is arguably a racist....

    Still defend him?

    Parent

    Oops, (none / 0) (#88)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 05:37:38 PM EST
    I missed the talk about Bell Curve.  I'd delete myself if I could.


    Parent
    Not a ringing endorsement (none / 0) (#107)
    by mmc9431 on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 08:53:58 PM EST
    As a Democrat, I was less than thrilled that a conservative Republican liked my party's choice for president! One of us was going to be very disappointed.

    No Democrat should want the endorsement of anyone like Sullivan. We should be at opposite ends of the political spectrum.