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The point of the remarks was primarily to advance two goals: explain why Paul Ryan's radical proposal must be rejected and present a "balanced" alternative towards long-term deficit reduction.
But along the way, the president made a point of reminding his audience that government, the institutions of the modern welfare state, and the modern social compact are worthy of a spirited defense. Indeed, to hear Obama tell it, the progressive vision is the American vision. . . . There's a word to summarize this approach to government. It's called "liberalism."
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_04/028935.php
This is what we wanted from him, right? He's got to implement obviously, but a strong establishment of liberal ideals is what has been at the top of everyone's gripe list.
He's delivered and should get some credit.
Seeing that he's worse than Reagan and all.
:) Parent
Okay--Dancing with the Stars, got it.... Parent
Mr. Obama spoke in strikingly partisan tones in parts of the 43-minute speech, offering a blistering critique of the Republican approach to reducing the deficit and laying down political markers that are sure to please even his most skeptical Democratic allies. The president vowed not to extend tax cuts for the wealthy or to dismantle the government-run health care systems for the elderly and poor. And he said there is "nothing serious or courageous" about the proposals Republicans offered this month.
Crticizing when the speech was given shows that there is very little, if anything, to criticize about the substance of the speech. So, on to process of when & how the speech was given. Actually, I like that it was given on a Wednesday. It will dominate the week's coverage and should be the main topic on the Sunday shows--unless something else happens....This was not a Friday dump of info when no one was looking.
And a prime time speech would have been a little much. That would only add to a sense of emergency--that could bolster the idea there really is a need to cut..... Parent
This is part I liked the least because IMO these are just empty promises that he made before and chose not to keep:
We will cut spending on prescription drugs by using Medicare's purchasing power to drive greater efficiency and speed generic brands of medicine onto the market.
This is the polar opposite of what is contained in his health insurance legislation. These elements are not in the legislation because Obama traded them away. I have no faith that that action will be reversed.
Can't say I trust him to let the tax cuts to the wealthy expire either. Parent
His word is no good. If he does better in negotiations with the GOP than he has done so far then maybe you'll be right but it seems to me Obama might just be doing this speech right now because so many activists have been saying they aren't going to work for him in '12. Parent
Maybe, in future, it will not seem like such a mistake/bad deal after all. (Kind of like breaking an impasse & preventing a govt shutdown by smartly selling a $14.7B savings in spending as #38.7B. Smart man!) Parent
You raise taxes and cut spending after the economy is back on its feet....this would help to avoid inflation.....
From a political standpoint, however, any extension of the tax cuts cedes the field to the Republicans...... Parent
I'd rather see him start by going farther than the middle.
I would prefer that he step on the Republicans toes until they, the republicans, apologize.
He didn't.
So... we'll see.
I didn't think it was inspiring for him to give a speech defending SS and Medicair to a bunch of college students. Parent
It may be a bit of Kabuki for too long at first; but, now we are hearing--for the first time in so long I can't recall the last time--a discussion in the speech today about the role of government from a Democratic perspective. Very significant...and, very significant that the President put down a specific marker about enhanced tax revenue from the wealthy in a formal speech setting. Parent
They give in, we win. Parent
i'm not seeing it... Parent
I so wanted somebody to make that point forcefully in a very public way.....Bonus points that it was the President who said it.... Parent
This is where Obama's approach should pay off. Parent
I think Obama's philosophy is more, "It may cost what is right, but I'll continue my career."
I have met, worked with, for and had work for me both types mentioned-- there are of course more than just two types.
It's Martin Luther compared to oh, one of the Medici popes, or, say, MacArthur compared to Eisenhower. differences in governance or style. I prefer the Luther/MacArthur style, if not the reasons on MacArthur... Truman also versus Eisenhower in presidential leadership.
YMMV. Parent
That's the fallacy of Obama. He prefers fluff over substance. Parent
However, if we think that the final plan is going to be as good as the one he proposed, we are going to be disappointed. Not because of dem weakness, but because of the GOP congress. We will have to make concessions.
We need to have fair and realistic expectations of what can be accomplished. Parent
It is a gamble but one that may be the only option in this environment and with this dynamic.
Inany event the gauntlet he threw down with the tax cuts is really the biggest flashpoint.
The GOP has called tax increases a non-starter. Despite what BT argued was the downside of The Deal, this is the time to have that battle. Giving up two years of tax cuts to appear reasonable and win the larger war on taxes will be (if successful) well worth it. Parent
Re-election doesn't necessarily lead to good governance. The US can't wait until after the election for a strong presidency.
This administration reminds me more and more of the Carter administration in terms of governance, but for different reasons.
The president needs to step up, or decide he's not the person for the job. Re-election is NOT governance. Parent
I write this bit only to point out that certain Senators in the first two years--lets just say, e.g., Baucus, Nelson, Landrieu, Lincoln, & Liebermann--had interests in their particular states that were occasionally at odds with the WH goals. That became obvious early on. Maybe way back in our history, the dynamics of how far the Executive could go (sub rosa) may have favored a harder knocks...but, the times have changed somewhat over the years by virtue of other Executives' miscues as well as by the concentrated power of the Senate. Summary: Easier said than done. Parent
Now, he has 237 Reps and 41 Senators who signed Grover Norquist's No Tax pledge, the vast majority of them Repubs who are very serious about their no-tax pledges and remember what happened to GWB when he broke his pledge. Parent
Not because of dem weakness, but because of the GOP congress.
The GOP does NOT control Congress. They control one house of the Congress, which would not have happened had he acted something like a resolute Democrat.
He had a free chance to at least restore the Clinton tax structure last December by doing absolutely nothing. Instead he deliberately gave away more of the store. Parent
You can't minimize that fact. He will have to concede a fair amount to reach a deal. We shouldn't fool ourselves or set unrealistic expectations.
There is no path to legislation that checks all of the progressive boxes without caveat. Parent
What happened to the republican 80th Congress? The same.damned.thing that happened last year.
Have you ever heard the phrase, "Do something, even if it's wrong?" I support the president's actions in Libya for that reason-- not because I think it's wrong, not because I think it's right, but he decided to DO something.
He applies this tactic, decision-making and action, more, he becomes a president, not an empty suit. Parent
The GOP has 1/3 of the government and we have to do everything they say??? You are the best advocate for voting GOP that I've ever seen. If we have to do what they say when they ONLY have 1/3 of the government then why not just let them have the whole government and quit the charade??? Parent
Update: I should probably say, I could live with this [Obama's plan] as an end result. If this becomes the left pole, and the center is halfway between this and Ryan, then no -- better to pursue the zero option of just doing nothing and letting the Bush tax cuts as a whole expire.
Why do you want to "hold him to that without reservation" this time? Besides, given your constant apologia for all of his other broken promises, what does that even mean? Parent
I am writing to tell you that I plan, without reservations, to hold you to your promise to not extend the tax cuts again.
Enclosed please find my check and rest assured that no matter what policy you pursue, I plan to work tirelessly for your reelection and vote a straight Democratic ticket, without reservations.
;-( Parent
I deeply regret that he's taught me not to believe he will stand up for what he says he will, though. So the speech is very welcome for, finally, a full-throated defense of liberal government, something I haven't heard him do for a very long time.
But... sadly, it's just a speech, and going on past record, there's absolutely no reason to have any faith that he'll stick to the principles he outlined in it.
I did note with amusement and satisfaction that the GOP congressional leadership reaction at their press conference today didn't amount to much more than sputtering and spittle and whining about "partisanship." (Wrong, guys, it's not partisanship, it's ideology, but whatever.) Parent
He is utterly confusing to me - I do think, unlike others, that he does believe in liberalism and good government, and many of his speeches are excellent examples of this.
But his actions are often completely at odds with these principles.
Nevertheless, good speech. Parent
I too believe that Obama's word is no good. Parent
I am pleased with the speech. If that's the standard he's set for himself, then to cut those programs is to fail. So he agrees with me then policy-wise.
He can give into the GOP on austerity. He obviously is on the same page as they are on that issue at some level. But letting something happen to Medicare, Medicaid, or SS is suicidal for a Democrat. I think his speech demonstrated that he knows that.
I think you were to the right of Obama on this speech ABG. Parent
It's nothing but a playbook move. Obama has made it singularly clear that the only way he will stand for something on principle is if others lead him to it. Not, as with a competent leader, the other way around.
Yap yap yap is cheap. Action is all that matters, and there is zero track record here. Parent
It took RFK awhile....to get there. He viewed MLK warily at first....and wanted to put off civil rights until later.... Parent
Economically, when reality is factored in (and I highly recommend this new piece from Taibbi which lays ALL this granny-hating, entitlement trashing, budget deficit nonsense to rest, and shows what a kleptocracy/oligarchy we live in), it's all just a very, very, VERY cruel joke. (LINK) But look, I have a ten year-old child, I'd love to be wrong. Parent
David Dayen:
The weakest part of the speech was his rebuttal to this concern, where he says he basically agrees, he gave everyone a payroll tax cut (which doesn't do a heck of a lot for people not on a payroll), and an evidence-free assertion that "doing nothing on the deficit is just not an option." But it's actually quite a good option. At the moment the international investment class is prepared to lend money to the United States of America at low interest rates. What's more, at the moment the United States of America has a lot of infrastructure needs. Furthermore, at the moment the United States of America has a large number of unemployed people. The logical course of action would be to accept international investors' desire for us to increase our volume of low interest borrowing in order to put people to work on useful infrastructure projects. Near the end of his speech, Obama said that "doing nothing on the deficit is just not an option." But it is an option! It's not an option for Spain, which is facing sky-high borrowing costs. It's not an option for Portugal, which just accepted a bailout from the European Union. But it is very much an option for the United States of America. It's a good option, an appealing option, an option that will increase our wealth over the long term. It won't be an option forever, but that's all the more reason to exercise the option while we can. Policies like this are just a missed opportunity, a chance to actually win the future with investments in the present that extend our economic performance. We could recover the half of the deficit created by falling tax receipts just by employing people. No deficit reduction works at 8.8% unemployment.
At the moment the international investment class is prepared to lend money to the United States of America at low interest rates. What's more, at the moment the United States of America has a lot of infrastructure needs. Furthermore, at the moment the United States of America has a large number of unemployed people. The logical course of action would be to accept international investors' desire for us to increase our volume of low interest borrowing in order to put people to work on useful infrastructure projects. Near the end of his speech, Obama said that "doing nothing on the deficit is just not an option." But it is an option! It's not an option for Spain, which is facing sky-high borrowing costs. It's not an option for Portugal, which just accepted a bailout from the European Union. But it is very much an option for the United States of America. It's a good option, an appealing option, an option that will increase our wealth over the long term. It won't be an option forever, but that's all the more reason to exercise the option while we can.
Policies like this are just a missed opportunity, a chance to actually win the future with investments in the present that extend our economic performance. We could recover the half of the deficit created by falling tax receipts just by employing people. No deficit reduction works at 8.8% unemployment.
And, as Paul Krugman noted in his update to his initial post-speech critique:
I should probably say, I could live with this as an end result. If this becomes the left pole, and the center is halfway between this and Ryan, then no -- better to pursue the zero option of just doing nothing and letting the Bush tax cuts as a whole expire.
There's "balanced," ABG, and then there's "give them an inch and they will take a mile;" most of us have reason to be concerned that legitimizing the bad ideas of the GOP is what happens when Obama seeks balance. Parent
If unemployment contiunes to go down, and Federal revenues go up, the deficit will fall. If that happens then the pressure to devastate the poor and the middle class to benefit the rich will dissipate...
There was very little legitimizing of GOP ideology here....And there is a difference between the short term deficit and the long term deficit..... Parent
Krugman, bless his heart, fails to see the political suicide in doing that. You lose the political advantage in advocating increased taxes for the rich.
Bill never suggested raising taxes on the middle class.
The last major political figure to do that was Mondale.
If you try the Krugman approach--advocating that all the tax cuts expire, including the middle class tax cuts--you would be shellacked for this for life. All the oxygen would be sucked up by such a proposal. Republicans would have the upper hand politically--even more so.
This reminds me of the health care debate. So many here fault Obama for not putting single payer on the table. But he, Hillary and Edwards took single payer off the table during the Primaries. Obama did not campaign on single payer. To try and throw out single payer just as a negotiating ploy would have been sooo transparent. Perhaps some members of Congress could have done more to advance such a bill, but the unilateral concession to the GOP was made in 2007 by Obama, Edwards--and Hillary.
To just throw out a clearly unserious proposal will often harm future negotiations by suggesting your future proposals will be just negotiating ploys too. Single payer would not have been a credible proposal in 2009.
So too, advocating a tax hike on the middle class would, in the best case, be seen as not serious, and in the worst case, as real--an attempt by Democrats to raise taxes on the middle class. No, no and hell-no. Parent
The game is now joined in earnest. The deal and the budget compromises were just positioning. This is the real fight we must win.
Today clarified the reasons that I thought the attacks on the Deal were fair but overblown. That was just a minor opening skirmish important only to set the stage. Parent
Lots of people here show emotion. Now, let me show some. Whoopee, Bravo, Allaeluja, and everything else.... You got it. You see it. You know it. Thanks!!!
It is one thing to negotiate in private business or even at the governmental level, as I did. You start high, the other side says "no way" (or words not so nice), and--if it works--you move toward the middle. Everybody is happy, or not so happy. When it is the highest levels of our governmental life...i.e., the big, big standoff with President & Congress (or one Branch of Congress), it isn't so simple. The major audience is the public; the public is not composed of attorneys nor of politicos; the public more and more wants "results" "no nonsense" & all that stuff. They want a choreographed version of bipartisanship....translation: reasonable man. (I don't just say that; every poll that comes out for years says or affirms that assertion.) So, the complication has to do with the inevitable insertion of politics; and, that has to do with the reality of what can happen. Not necessarily what we want for ouselves.
I love Krugman, for the most part. He deserves all kinds of accolades for his perceptive, principled positions in the past several years. BUT, from Adam he doesn't seem to realize that to start with saying a "tax on all your houses" is anathema. The line in the sand of whatever it is in is precisely the right time (when people are sort of listening now) and the right tone...Obama has voiced what most people can/will support: The rich need to contribute a bit more...they can & must absorb this moderate tax hike. His timing is excellent. Great. Parent
Oh, wait... Parent
As always we will see if the actions match the rhetoric, but this was a good opening salvo. If the Republicans are indeed muttering about partisanship, it is a sign it was a good speech in my book. Parent
But this theme of portraying him as someone who hates liberal values across the board was just something I feel compelled to push back against.
Should we criticize? Yes. But argue that he's worse than Reagan and we shouldn't vote for him to allow for President Romney?
Oh he'll no. Parent
As I said above, it's just a speech. But it's a heck of a lot more promising speech than 99 percent of what's come out of his mouth since he showed up on the scene back at the primaries.
YMMV, of course, but here's one decidedly non-swooner who liked it a lot. Parent
But as far back as the 1980s, America started amassing debt at more alarming levels, and our leaders began to realize that a larger challenge was on the horizon. They knew that eventually, the Baby Boom generation would retire, which meant a much bigger portion of our citizens would be relying on programs like Medicare, Social Security, and possibly Medicaid. Like parents with young children who know they have to start saving for the college years, America had to start borrowing less and saving more to prepare for the retirement of an entire generation
makes it sound like the baby boomers and entitlements are the major cause of the increasing debt. Reagan's tax policy, for $1 trillion, Alex?? Big big minus points for this. Hope he corrects later.
I can't criticize what he says on tax policy, but I'd like to see some independent analysis.
My review: many good things, several annoying omissions in the discussion of recent history. Also, his talk of lowering medicare costs sounds like pure fantasy, which means option B---doing whatever the catfood commission says---comes into play. Parent
But there were bipartisan budgets in the 90s. Parent
Why should we believe you?
Rude pundit speaks for me! Parent
I think I give up, time to do something completely different.
Not really. <-Just in case anyone from the "board" is reading TL Parent
The problem with the statement about the tax cuts is that he already gave away the store on that one so it's kind of silly to talk about giving himself a tax cut when he already did it. Parent
I mentioned a few days ago he needed to be questioned about those grim economic figures from Stiglitz at his next presser, what was happening on his watch, so maybe what happened is Obama read my post here at TL and decided to take my advice for a change. Parent
If only he keeps it up during the closed door negotiations.... Parent
As for action, sticking to core Dem principles, and the nitty-gritty of negotiations with the Goopers, let's just hope he doesn't pull another one of these ... Parent
That line shows that he's reasonable and that the time has come for the other side to cave. This is the set-up I talked about in December. Parent
Not his best comment. But not what you portray, either.
Another difference was that FDR took office in March--a couple of months later than now. So, FDR really had less reason (or ability) to do anything in December. But Obama was faulted for not naming a Secretary of the Treasury right after the election in November....
The timing of the economic downturn still gives Republicans some cover. As in unemployment went up after Obama took office. Of course, it would--the economy was falling off a cliff.
If the downturn had been a few months earlier, and Obama took office at the bottom, many Republican (bad) arguments would never have seen the light of day.
Parent
I remember the comment about FDR didn't have it as bad because he waited (for months after his election) to act until March (when he took office)......
I think you remember the comment as critizing FDR for making mistakes his first months in office. Parent
"We didn't actually, I think, do what Franklin Delano Roosevelt did, which was basically wait for six months until the thing had gotten so bad that it became an easier sell politically because we thought that was irresponsible. We had to act quickly." - President Obama
I mean.. WTF?? Parent
But the six months he was referring to (or intended to refer to) was the gap between the November 1932 election and the March 1933 Inaugural--not quite six months....
The First Hundred Days of FDR was historic--and the reason people still talk about an administration's first hundred days. No one could suggest that FDR waited for six months after he took office before acting.....The Bank Holliday was right away. Parent
Whereas people demanded Obama do something in November....with respect to TARP especially.
But different contexts.....FDR had no real power until March....Today, in the info age perception is much more clearly reality..... Parent
That is the undisputed fact that gives context to the quote.... Parent
Interesting comparison. Parent
"I will not concede on taxes ... ... again. No, ... ... seriously. What?!? I'm not kidding this time!"
... again.
No, ...
... seriously.
What?!? I'm not kidding this time!"
Jeff, you offered in the other thread to start scouting locations this summer. I say, "Go for it. Find us a home." Parent
But, yes, running water, please. Parent
Folks, the US is like 30th in internet wifi connectivity... some South American countries are A LOT better... Parent
Internet Access is somebody elses department. Parent
In the pirate spirit, if we're not sailing we should be squatting land. Somewhere with as wide a circumference from signs of industrialization pollution as possible, but within a few days pack-mule hike to a trading post.
You guys be the brains, I'll dig the well and run in the hamster wheel to charge the batteries. Parent
If we wanna get really Rudie we can squat the Bush Family Compound...largest fresh water reserves in the world. Ya can get lost in 100,000 acres:)
Rudie Can't Fail...dems pirate lyrics. Parent
I'm sure some growing could be arranged south of the border. I think the climate is right for it . . . .
I've got a good seed stash for food crops going :) Parent
In case you missed the news from your old stomping grounds back east..."same sh*t different day" in local vernacular:)
Farmers, laborers, educators and assorted brainiacs...sweet talk the special lady into an anarcho-syndicalist pirate commune experiment, we got ourselves an MD. She'd be down too.
It would be some scene if nothing else:) Parent
Ty matey! We need enough power for a CD player.
Or an old-fashioned record player! Parent
Any chance you can rig us a rudimentary anti-drone defense system with your knowledge? :) Parent
It's business. Don't worry!
Now that anti-drone stuff...Jim, help us out? we're peaceful pirates! any jammers? Parent
Can't really do that now due to tax implications, it's an hour round trip, but thats another story. Parent
the cheap ones-- provide nicotine...harsh
middle-- still sort of harsh for US customers
Cowboy Killers-- Marlboro for export. Guaranteed to have double the nicotine and tar of a US cig. and still harsh. You can buy five cartons in the duty free, and fill your suitcases with your brand, the 'service charge' is a lot less "South of the Border." Parent
I was gonna say something but the PA was going on about inappropriate remarks and handcuffs and what not so I pulled a Kramden.
"Pins and needles, needles and pins. It's a happy man that grins." Parent
I'm even more disgusted by the government now. When I smoked, in the Army, I bought "Menthol Cigarettes." White pack, green letters. Four dollars a carton. Parent
But grapes, wine, etc, in Argentina or Chile, no problem. Parent
And well worth a read.
The hillsides ring with "Free the people" Or can I hear the echo from the days of '39? With trenches full of poets The ragged army, fixin' bayonets to fight the other line
Also, maybe we could rig up some sort of solar power collection system. I read somewhere (can't find it right now) about mechanisms being tested in parts of Africa that use simple solar power systems to provide electricity to villagers. Enough power for a light bulb or two and to run the laptop computer.
Mostly, let's keep it simple. Parent
Remember, the pirate team is pretty fed up with the corporate bloodsuckers and that includes their attendant toys. Parent
I'm just not into money, and losing my job and moving away haven't helped.
After she gets hers, she might become a pirate auxiliary, who knows? I just can't chase that dollar...we still talk, but we don't agree on some things. Also, we still respect each other. Parent
By the way, Buenos Aires and Montevideo have wonderful opera houses. Parent
Coffee!
What's the brand, I want to buy some!
No... what's the brand?
Coffee... we call it coffee. Parent
I'd be happy making my own paint like substances and also using clay/wood/etc in the sculpt area . . . Parent
Jerry Brown invites energy using industries to leave California
.
As part of the fight against global warming, California already requires its large, investor-owned utilities to get 20 percent of their electricity from the sun, the wind, and other renewable energy sources, a goal they have not yet met. Developers are racing to build wind farms and solar power plants across the state, often using technology developed by California companies. ...
Until the south starts to learn to compete in ways other than corporate welfare, we're always going to be last.
BMW in South Carolina doesn't even hire much locally. They import most of their workers from out of the state and out of the country. Parent
Makes me almost want to go ahead build on some family land in Griffin, GA. Almost. Parent
During the call, which was recorded by the FAA, Boyd said Inhofe's antics "scared the crap out of" workers, adding that the Cessna "damn near hit" a red truck. Referring to the vehicle's driver, Boyd added, "I think he actually wet his britches, he was scared to death. I mean, hell, he started trying to head for the side of the runway. The pilot could see him, or he should have been able to, he was right on him." Boyd also said that Inhofe showed little contrition following the close call. "He come over here and started being like, 'What the hell is this? I was supposed to have unlimited airspace.'"
Boyd also said that Inhofe showed little contrition following the close call. "He come over here and started being like, 'What the hell is this? I was supposed to have unlimited airspace.'"
** I should note that other than when the Giants were playing the Marlins, one of my favorite things was watching Barry Bonds at the plate. Parent
I say this as one who holds a degree in paint, charcoal and color theory . . .
I have a Barry bobble head :) Parent
He was intentionally walked 620 times in his career (2nd place is a mere 229). He was also walked more total than anyone in the history of the game (2,558 vs 2,042 for the Sultan of Swat, The King of Crash, The Colossus of Clout, the Great Bambino). Parent
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/cbo-budget-deal-cuts-this-fiscal-years-deficit-by-just-353-mi llion-not-38-billion-touted/2011/04/13/AFFJnkWD_story.html
Fourth dimensional chess indeed.
Do you seriously think that Republicans would be fooled in to agreeing to only 352 million in cuts?
Nice try. Parent
"entitlements" = 0
specifically wrt SS, Medicare, etc.
good!
a good speech - wingnuts are already fulminating - & now we'll find out if it's "just words"
What would be new, however, and EVERYONE knows this, is Obama doing anything that genuinely resembles playing hardball. The Repubs play hardball, he plays softball, and a "lousy" deal is struck (lousy for the people, that is).
But I'd love to be surprised. Don't think I will be thought. Parent
and
people speaking out against luddite Florida anti-evolution bill