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Reaping What They Sowed: Americans Believe Cutting Spending Will Create Jobs

Digby and Greg Sargent lament that Americans have come to believe the Obama Administration's parroting of Republican talking points on the relationship between economic growth and cutting government spending. Digby writes:

It's fairly clear that the administration long ago bought into the deficit trope and threw in its lot with the confidence fairy to create growth.

Indeed, Obama proved me an idiot when I thought he would use the "deficit trope" to fight against renewing the Bush tax cuts. Instead, The Deal was born. I'm with Kevin Drum - this is the policy the Obama Administration wants.

Speaking for me only

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    It's all for that magical second term (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 02:44:17 PM EST
    Grab enough votes from the right with this nonsense, to replace all you pie-in-the-sky and disaffected Libs, then he'll unleash the greatest progressive agenda the world has ever seen.  You wait, just you wait, it's gonna be great.

    Fiddle fiddle, burn burn, inhale inhale inhale...

    Re: "this is the policy the Obama (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 02:46:54 PM EST
    Administration wants."  Was there some question as to whether this is the policy the admins. wants?

    If you listen to people like ABG, you would (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:30:32 PM EST
    know that the president is powerless to affect - really affect - the economy; Obama is merely along for the ride - it's Congress that is to blame for all that is bad.  The good stuff - that's all Obama, for sure.

    Parent
    [I don't.] (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:27:34 PM EST
    I listen (none / 0) (#71)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 07:52:42 PM EST
    To what everyone says.  That's a poor retort but true.

    Parent
    Gee, did the blinders fall off you guys? (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by Gerald USN Ret on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:02:20 PM EST
    There is a writer, a professor named Victor Davis Hanson.

    He wrote some time ago that Obama never really did anything to establish a track record that could be scrutinized, except for the list of a series of posts he held for a brief time.

    Obama was always busy applying and running for the next post.  He never really wrote anything (excepting his memoir which of course is really an application paper)
    He never served anywhere for very long, for he and all the hopeful folks around him were always pushing for the next better slot.

    Well finally Obama got to be the President after one of the most hated men in history and you would think that at least he would pause and establish a record.  Oops, it turns out that he is too busy seeking the next job, a 2nd term.

    (I deliberately have chosen not to mention Obama-care above as an accomplishment.)

    You may be missing signs of maturity (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Towanda on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:06:43 PM EST
    as from what I can find, the man is settling down -- staying in the same job for a third year now.

    Parent
    But one does have to wonder if (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 02:03:47 AM EST
    he cares about serving more than four - going for the whole eight.

    Anyone who ignores the jobs crisis as much as he and his team have done, doesn't appear to be serious about going for a second term, in my opinion.

    Seems to me that they can get out soon and pursue the lifestyles of the global rich and famous without a second term effort.

    I was complaining about Obama to a friend of mine and they finally asked, "What Republican are you going to vote for then?"  I gave my response after a bit of a pregnant pause for the full effect and said, "Barack Obama."  But my vote doesn't count one way or another where I live.  When I vote for someone it isn't taken seriously and is never particularly meaningful...

    I have never not voted in a presidential election, but I might opt out this time around.  Mostly because I really feel that for the first time in my life my vote for a democrat is really not at all important - and that the only way I may be counted in my district is to not show up at all because he will win here no matter what - not voting is to deny Obama of a claim on a mandate by population count because he clearly does not represent my best interests or those of the country at large.

    I am not an advocate of this practice of not voting.  I have been intensely opposed to this tactic up until now, but I take my Democratic vote seriously and I just don't know if I can offer it to someone like Obama who is even more conservative than the Republican Senator for whom I served as an intern.

    It is all very depressing.

    Parent

    VDH hasn't done much, either, and (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by observed on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:09:12 PM EST
    he's a lot older.
    Why anyone cares for the opinion of a Classics professor of no reputation when he speaks on modern politics is a minor mystery.

    Parent
    Obama's resume was a Figment of the MSM's (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by samsguy18 on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 05:02:29 PM EST
    Imagination.....we should all pay close attention this election cycle ! Fool me once shame on you....fool me twice shame on me !  

    Parent
    Why were you fooled (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:32:27 PM EST
    the first time?  Seriously.  His lack of resume was obvious.

    Parent
    People who don't understand DC (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 02:18:25 AM EST
    often make a few mistakes in measuring a candidate:

    1.  They believe the mythology lock, stock and barrel of "outsiders" being genuine outsiders and that they can "change" things.
    2. They believe as in Obama's case that he came out of nowhere, was fresh and new; and just "worked his way up through the people and not the politicians".
    3.  They believe that it is still possible to just win the Democratic Party or Republican Party nomination without herculean effort and backing within their party.
    4.  The really seem to think that a figure such as Barack Obama could effect change by playing nice; appeasing opponents; and by applying an almost obsessive-compulsive self-defeating "pragmatism" to extraordinary problems this country is facing.

    That's just the short list.  I could go on, but I am finally getting ready to sleep

    The bottom line is that all of the above is just a bunch of spin and marketing to sell you something that is not real and to capture your loyalties in order to quash any dissent as they set about screwing you and yours.

    All I wish for is an electorate who will not fall for "hope and change" and will demand campaign slogans that are focused on the actual issues like jobs, climate change, green tech, infrastructure, etc.  And I guess people would stop pretending like by not holding these people's feet to the fire we are doing ourselves some sort of favor - because we are screwing ourselves when we do that.

    Parent

    Heh, like a lawyer talking (none / 0) (#29)
    by Wile ECoyote on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:08:25 PM EST
    about the military.  Or economics, or sports.

    Parent
    yes, but BTD is a good lawyer. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by observed on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:12:21 PM EST
    VDH was a hack academic.

    Parent
    Trying to get this in the right spot. (none / 0) (#35)
    by Gerald USN Ret on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:23:46 PM EST
    As somewhat of a military history buff myself, I think highly of Prof Hanson and his analysis in general, and even in politics it is pretty good.


    Parent
    I agree in a sense (5.00 / 5) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:27:43 PM EST
    I am anti-credentialist.

    I don't ignore VDH because he is a Classics Professor. I ignore him because I do not think he makes much sense.

    Obviously, YMMV.

    Parent

    I wasn't saying to ignore him because (none / 0) (#45)
    by observed on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:57:01 PM EST
    he's a Classics professor. But anyway, it's not important.

    Parent
    Thank you! (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:36:51 PM EST
    Very well said all the way through.

    The Russian suffering in WWII is nearly unimaginable, and their troops fought ferociously and incredibly valiantly.  And they then still had energy to go take over half of Germany and Hungary and etc.  It's really quite mind-boggling.

    Parent

    You must be fairly new around here (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by cal1942 on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 09:44:43 PM EST
    Very few people who comment on this site had blinders on for one minute.  The overwhelming majority strongly (fiercely would probably be a better descriptor) OPPOSED Obama's nomination.

    We knew that Obama had the thinnest of resumes, that he deliberately avoided establishing a real record and in fact what record showed was anything but that of a real Democrat.  His showing during the primaries yielded strong clues about what to expect.  We knew he was a DINO. Predictable and predicted.

    Parent

    I was a minor officer (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 10:34:01 PM EST
    in our county party.  My wife is currently an officer in the county party.  We live in a suburban/rural county.  We have no conservatives in our midst.  Many, probably most, in the local party are deeply upset with Obama and feel he's simply not a Democrat.  He's the reason we lost control of the County Commission.

    I've always considered myself a bread and butter Democrat.  I don't believe that liberal is any particular ideology beyond a belief in activist government and practical effective policy.

    Through the years I've always been able to talk up Democratic candidates among various groups.

    I can't defend or promote Obama.  It's not in my heart to do so.  I feel he's damaged the Democratic Party.  I can't bring myself to call him a Democrat, it's like soiling every decent Democratic office holder past and present.  So it's DINO.   I don't want people to think that he's the example of a Democrat.  After the primaries I was unable to promote Obama in any way so I kept my mouth shut and restricted myself to working for a local candidate.

    Inasmuch as big tent is concerned I believe that accommodating conservative Democrats may be part of the party's identity problem over the last few decades.  We've lost the capability to present a discernible message, a real alternative that people can recognize, trust and bank on.  Much of the general public now thinks we stand for nothing, a party about nothing.  Right or wrong that's the image. There was a time when I could talk to people and say that Democrats will do X and Z or Democrats will prevent Y.

    I just can't say that anymore, not in any honesty and if I can't say it honestly, as something I believe, I can't say anything.  We seem to lack an X or a Z or an A or a B.

    So after all these many years I'm not a good party man after all.  Maybe I never was.

    After the 2012 election, when party officers are elected and my wife's term expires, my wife and I will be leaving the party.  No more contributions or fund raising, canvasing, organizing precinct groups, serving as delegate, letter writing, etc.  I'll be keeping my mouth shut but if asked I'll tell whomever asks that Obama was not a proper example of a Democrat, that he was a Democrat in name only.

    Parent

    That comment of yours (none / 0) (#110)
    by Nemi on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 06:41:52 AM EST
    made me immensely sad. So sorry for both of you. And all of us. And the future of the Democratic Party.

    And I think you're spot on with this

    Inasmuch as big tent is concerned I believe that accommodating conservative Democrats may be part of the party's identity problem over the last few decades.
    And, if blogs are any indication, since the election 2008 many life-long/ former/ disenfranchised Democrats have also started leaning more right, simply out of spite _ which might be understandable but not very helpful to the course.

    Parent
    No way (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by cal1942 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 02:17:30 PM EST
    will I ever lean right.

    I'm not into spite.  My disenchantment with the party's lack of direction in recent years doesn't change my core beliefs, it doesn't change my view of history.

    I'll continue to vote Democratic even though I'm enraged about the lack of direction.  The alternative is unthinkable.

    Parent

    Thank you! (none / 0) (#102)
    by Farmboy on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 12:04:36 PM EST
    Being a member of the Democratic party does not equate with being a liberal, although it is my impression FWIW that most members hold those ideals. And similarly, being a member of the Republican party does not equate with being a conservative, although again it seems that most self-identify that way.

    And progressives come in all flavors, Democrat and Republican. That's why it's possible for Obama to score high on an objective progressive litmus test, while not being as liberal as many on the left would like.

    Parent

    When was (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 07:52:01 PM EST
    the last time you saw or heard of a progressive Republican?

    Parent
    I know some - so do you, if you have any (none / 0) (#111)
    by Farmboy on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 10:20:21 AM EST
    Republican friends who care about the environment, believe in social justice and human rights, want to eat safe food, value a good education, etc. - progressive goals.

    To be clear, I'm not talking about politicians. And I'm not talking about Tea Partiers, Fox followers, etc. I'm talking about friends, neighbors, co-workers - regular folks.


    Parent

    And if your friends, etc. (none / 0) (#114)
    by cal1942 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 02:21:09 PM EST
    believe as you say, then why are they voting for Republicans who are the antithesis of their values.

    Parent
    Why do folks vote for Democrats who (none / 0) (#115)
    by Farmboy on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 11:51:34 AM EST
    vote against women's rights, or against the EPA, or against disaster recovery funds, or against regulating out of control corporations, or against increasing educational funding, or against workers' rights, or any of a hundred antithetical issues?

    Parent
    Two things (none / 0) (#116)
    by cal1942 on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 12:16:59 PM EST
    Thing 1:

    Because the GOP alternative is even worse

    Thing 2:

    You're making my point that the big tent inclusion of conservatives in our present day environment muddies the perception of the party.

    You can't possibly name even one progressive Republican office holder at the federal level and outside the northeast probably few if any at the state level.  Republicans purged their liberals years ago and have almost no moderates left.  Those GOP office holders at the national level who are called moderates are far more conservative than the moderates of a couple of decades back.

    Parent

    Your point was that Obama was a Manchurian (none / 0) (#117)
    by Farmboy on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 01:23:50 PM EST
    candidate, harboring a secret agenda that disqualified him as a "real" Democrat.

    We knew that Obama had the thinnest of resumes, that he deliberately avoided establishing a real record and in fact what record showed was anything but that of a real Democrat.  His showing during the primaries yielded strong clues about what to expect.  We knew he was a DINO. Predictable and predicted.

    My point was that voters often had values and opinions that aren't a part of the party platform. Evidently by your standards, most voters aren't "real" members of their parties because they wouldn't pass your purity test.

    Parent

    I did not say (none / 0) (#118)
    by cal1942 on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 09:45:32 PM EST
    that Obama was a Manchurian Candidate.  He told us what he would do, his approach, etc. during the '08 primaries.  That's why some of us were frustrated that his followers couldn't see what was quite plain.

    My point was that voters often had values and opinions that aren't a part of the party platform. Evidently by your standards, most voters aren't "real" members of their parties because they wouldn't pass your purity test.

    Clearly you don't understand the "discussion."  

    Parent

    Very correct Farmboy (none / 0) (#112)
    by Politalkix on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 10:57:56 AM EST
    Every survey where I have been polled identifies me as a "solid liberal", based on my beliefs. I therefore fall among the 14% population that is considered the leftmost end of the political spectrum. Yet, I have very big problems agreeing fully with the majority of posters on TL on most issues when it comes to Democratic Party and national politics.


    Parent
    All historians who reconsider well-trod (none / 0) (#70)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:53:23 PM EST
    areas are, to some degree, revisionists. VDH, as you've characterized him, is just a bad historian.

    One of the more interesting historical counterfactuals is the question of whether the Soviets could have beat the Germans on their own without our material aide. I am pretty confident that they would have even absent the D-Day landings.

    Parent

    In a sense the Russians were lucky (none / 0) (#73)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 08:41:43 PM EST
    that the Germans bailed out the Italians in Greece, delaying Barbarossa.

    Parent
    I have very smart friends who insist (none / 0) (#77)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 09:31:11 PM EST
    that operation Sea Lion was never possible. Germany simply didn't have the landing craft.

    Parent
    Kursk was a masterpiece of (none / 0) (#74)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 08:59:02 PM EST
    defense in depth. the Soviets used blocking forces and counterattacks and overwhelming numbers of lesser-ability but faster-to-produce tanks to wipe out the technologically superior panther and tiger tanks. Those suffered from slow replacement time.

    Just adding, this in no way refutes Donald's post. Of course, I recommend the field manuals, available online for your perusal. Try FM 7-8, the infantry rifle platoon and squad.

    Donald, Sun Tzu used to be required reading in Officers' Advanced Course.  That's also the change from tactical to more critical thinking, indirect control versus direct control...

    Interesting stuff.

    Parent

    As grandmom would say: Word! (none / 0) (#87)
    by Gerald USN Ret on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 10:57:46 PM EST
    My invoking Prof Hanson really brought out the military history.  Personally I liked his very early analysis (Greek and the like).  I have gotten more than enough modern theory elsewhere.

    Given time, it would be fun to delve into many of the subjects that were brought up by the commenters here, but I only brought up Prof Hanson because I read a critique on Obama's career that Hanson wrote.

    It appears that many of you agree with that critique of Obama's resume though you dislike Prof Hanson.

    Parent

    Bloomberg's latest poll is proof of (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:05:20 PM EST
    how well the deficit hysteria has been sold...with the able assistance of the stenography pool that is our media - and much to what I'm sure will be the GOP's chagrin, even though it is increasingly a Democratic message, people see it as a Republican one.

    Full poll results.

    Emphasis mine.

    Fewer than a quarter of people see signs of improvement in the economy, and two-thirds say they believe the country is on the wrong track overall, according to a Bloomberg National Poll conducted June 17-20.

    [snip]

    By a 44 percent to 34 percent margin, Americans say they believe they are worse off than when President Barack Obama took office in early 2009, when the U.S. was in the depths of a recession compounded by the September 2008 financial crisis and the economy was losing as many as 820,000 jobs a month.

    The gloom covers the immediate future, with fewer than 1 in 10 people expecting unemployment to return to pre-recession levels within the next two years, and it extends to the next generation. More than half of respondents say their children are destined to have a lower standard of living than they do, upending a traditional touchstone of the American Dream.

    And here it is:

    As the public grasps for solutions, the Republican Party is breaking through in the message war on the budget and economy. A majority of Americans say job growth would best be revived with prescriptions favored by the party: cuts in government spending and taxes, the Bloomberg Poll shows. Even 40 percent of Democrats share that view.

    [the Republican Party - really?  Someone needs to tell Kent - 2-trillion-is-not-enough - Conrad (D)]

    "Unless you limit the actual money coming in to the government and give businesses a break, I don't think you're going to have a bounce-back in the economy," says poll respondent Michael Jefferys, 37, a business analyst for a building supply manufacturer. The economy "is at a teetering point: Depending on what changes are made, it could take a dramatic fall or start to revive," says Jefferys, a political independent who lives in Pitman, New Jersey.

    [snip]

    Though Americans rate unemployment and the economy as a greater concern than the deficit and government spending, the issues are now closely connected. Sixty-five percent of respondents say they believe the size of the federal deficit is "a major reason" the jobless rate hasn't dropped significantly.

    [snip]

    Fewer than half cite failures of Obama's economic stimulus or cuts in government spending as contributing reasons. Fifty-eight percent say the economy needs time to heal in the wake of the financial crisis.

    Republican criticism of the federal budget growth has gained traction with the public. Fifty-five percent of poll respondents say cuts in spending and taxes would be more likely to bring down unemployment than would maintaining or increasing government spending, as Obama did in his 2009 stimulus package.

    Even with their concerns about the deficit, Americans aren't ready to pay more in taxes: More than 6 of 10 say they are unwilling to do so, even as 77 percent say it's inevitable taxes will rise as a result of a deal to curb the deficit.

    The economy is not the only thing that's depressed.

    [sob!]


    Let's Get It Out - Cuz In 12 Months LOTE will (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by seabos84 on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:16:23 PM EST
    rear its ignorant head and ...

    NO More dissing on 0-$ell out till AFTER the election !!!

    (ya know, when he renews bush's community theft ...AGAIN!)

    I'm looking forward to writing in my own name for President of the United States, and I seriously don't give a rat's ass which lying fascist beats 0-$ell-0ut.

    rmm.

    I keep saying it.... because it's true, I think... (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:34:19 PM EST
    And now even Kevin Drum is figuring it out...

    His actions suggest that he wants long-term spending cuts. Like it or not, that's the real Obama.

    Obama is not incompetent, nor is he stupid.

    He made it to President, after all.

    If he keeps on getting the results he keeps on getting, it's because those are the results he was aiming for.

    Everything he's 'accomplishing' he's accomplishing on purpose, because it's what he set out to accomplish.

    And on another note... by the end of 2012, after his Afghanistan "drawdown", he'll have twice as many troops in Afghanistan as there were there on the day he was inaugurated.

    His actions suggest that that is what he wants.

    Like it or not, that's the real Obama.

    Ever wonder why he wears that big grin so often? It must take nearly everything he's got to not burst out laughing.

    I'm bushed.

    Want a job? (none / 0) (#66)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:35:42 PM EST
    Sign up for Afghanistan. It should be good for decades...

    Parent
    Tomorrow's David Gergen Shall Coo (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Addison on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 09:10:00 PM EST
    It's a policy based on securing Obama's legacy, not serving Americans now.

    And before someone notes that cutting spending to create jobs is not a policy that will result in a better tomorrow for America, and thus would not secure Obama's legacy, I'll just note this: the media of tomorrow will see balancing the budget and cutting the deficit as heroic actions. The Sturm und Drang of suffering people will prove an easily forgettable sidenote -- the people suffering today are rarely on the TV now, they'll be on the TV even more rarely 10 years from now.

    The applied history of tomorrow as written by political groups and journalists (who all employ each other and deal with each other and are accountable to each other) will be what rich people do and experience. It's in that context that this policy has been followed for 2 and a half years. So that tomorrow's David Gergen will coo at Obama's resolve.

    The left is living in a fantasy world (1.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Slado on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 05:22:23 PM EST
    What part of the CBO's estimate don't you understand?

    Based on us continuing to do what we've been doing we will have twice as much debt as GDP in a decade.

    We have to cut everything.

    The left is delusional if they think that any president and any congress won't eventually cut everything.

    We can cut it now or we can cut it later.

    I can garuntee you that cutting it later will be much more painful and you'll like it even less then you like the cutting on the table now.

    As for taxes keep dreaming.  We tax enough already.   As I've said before no matter the tax rate we get about 20% of GDP in tax revenue.  Never much more and never much less.   We spend way more then 20% in GDP.  That's while we're in the hole.

    Tax cuts won't help the economy and tax raises won't help the debt.

    The only thing that will help the economy is less government spending and less debt.

    And it won't help it tomorrow.  The hole is already too deep.  The positive is it will keep the economy from going into total collapse olike they're seeing in Europe.

    Next term we may be blessed to find (none / 0) (#3)
    by observed on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 02:52:04 PM EST
    out that Obama doesn't believe in global warming.

    I have to say that Huntsman sounds very good, at first impression. It's hard to believe that
    A) a moderan Republican can actually be sane
    and
    B) that a sane Republican could get the GOP nomination, but we'll see.

    I agree that Huntsman (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by CST on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:02:22 PM EST
    represents the best of the worst.  By far.

    However, when it comes to the economy:

    "In his speech, Huntsman warned of the danger of a growing national debt and stressed the importance of creating a new industrial revolution.

    "We must reignite the powerful job-creating engine of our economy - the industry, innovation, reliability, and trailblazing genius of Americans and their enterprises - and restore confidence in our people," he said.

    He touted his record as governor of Utah cutting taxes and balancing the budget.

    Advisers say Huntsman's campaign will focus on job creation, reducing debt by cutting spending, and foreign policy."

    It's the same ol' nonesense.  In other words, he's a lot like Obama, only a little bit more Republican.  Scary, no.  Better?  Also no.

    Parent

    I'm not sure we've seen the (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:27:02 PM EST
    extent of Obama's Republican tendencies; for reasons I would need to be a whole lot smarter to understand, Obama seems to think that instead of offering the nation something on the other side of the political spectrum to solve our problems, he has to be a bigger, stronger and improved version of his Republican competition.

    Makes me think he needs - more than ever - a primary opponent from a deeply Democratic point of view; it might make his head explode, but I would just dearly love to see him put his neo-Republican garbage up against an old-school liberal.

    If he won, he'd have a whale of a time backing off what would be undoubtedly more liberal views than we've seen in the last couple years; if he lost the nomination, we'd have a liberal candidate with starkly different views.  Is that a recipe for ultimate disaster?  Depends on whether you see the re-election of an invigorated, unabashedly conservative Democrat as a plus or a minus for the country - or for the future of rhe party.

    At this point, I don't think we have all that much left to lose.

    Parent

    I'll work on your campain, Anne... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:31:26 PM EST
    I'll be the 'back room bully.'

    You are at least as qualified as the current facilitator in chief.

    Parent

    sign me up for the ANTI-rove team - (none / 0) (#64)
    by seabos84 on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:32:56 PM EST
    let's follow the creep 24*7 and put the videos on you tube of pasha Rove living large on the sweat of all the droolers he's lying to 24*7.

    and for all you dedicated to losing weenie-0-crats who ONLY want to emphasize 'the positive' -

    YOU stay on your side of the building, and I'll stay on my side.

    I'll stay out of your waste of time happy happy kumbaya crap, and YOU stay out of my way. I want to win, NOT whine about mean meanies lying so they can steal.

    rmm.

    Parent

    That rhetoric is indistinguishable from (none / 0) (#9)
    by observed on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:10:26 PM EST
    Obama's, IMO.
    If anything, Obama, with his constant reminders that everything is "on the table" when it comes to "entitlements", is worse.


    Parent
    Would we at least have a (none / 0) (#12)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:18:17 PM EST
    chance in H*ll that if a mod repub is elected, the dems would grow a bit of a spine and start acting like Dems?

    Parent
    god I hope so (none / 0) (#14)
    by CST on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:27:42 PM EST
    I'm actually starting to really hope he wins the nomination.

    For one thing, I could live with him as president, I certainly won't vote for him, but I could live with it.

    For another, it may force Obama and the Democrats to actually move to the left during the general election since there will be nowhere left for them to go.  If a righty candidate is nominated, forget-about-it.

    That being said, I don't want him to actually win.  I don't see a single issue where I would expect him to be more liberal than Obama, and I can see a number where he would be more conservative.  Who is more likely to stand up to republicans on cutting medicaid benefits - for example.  The guy who spent a ton of time and political capitol on the bill, or someone who's got limited skin in the game and is in the same party as those proposing the cuts?  I think the answer to that one, among other situations is farely obvious.

    Parent

    Huntsman is adamantly anti-choice (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:40:21 PM EST
    Any candidate who is for keeping women as second class citizens is unacceptable to me.

    Parent
    Huntsman's support for same-sex (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:06:05 PM EST
    relationships is also being "refined." It sounds like, in preparation for the Republican primaries, Huntsman is maybe no longer so sure same-sex relationships should have legal recognition.

    Of course, this "refining" of one's position on same-sex relationships is quite similar to Obama's change of heart on same-sex marriage.

    Parent

    did not know that (none / 0) (#23)
    by CST on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:47:42 PM EST
    thank you, and I agree.

    Parent
    "All that glitters is not gold." (none / 0) (#30)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:08:43 PM EST
    You appear to be quite reasonable, CST: How do you think he managed to become governor of that "liberal" bastion of Utah?

    Truly, the depressing news of the public--at least in the Bloomberg poll (wherein the poll opened with a question about the economy guaranteeing a negative mood...interesting question order there)--appearing to support the canard about cutting spending equals economic growth & jobs. The entire poll, tho, does indicate ambivalence in all directions. The just-released AP poll shows related ambivalence.

    What both polls also have in common is that the President fares substantially better than the Repubs even on economic questions. And, in the AP poll, the pollsters remarked that there is an internal contradiction as to the public thinking the economy won't get better for awhile on a broad level, but that their personal situations were regarded as better. I commend both polls to you as they make interesting reading; especially the write-up for the AP cover story which describes the President's position as being "weakened" by the economy so that he now stands at a 52% approval rating. (AP may be trying to square their storyline for the leveling effect time that makes for a more interesting story with the bottomline approval number. Hmmm.)

    As for the basic question of did the WH join forces with the Repubs on the overemphasis on the debt/spending cuts because that is what the WH really believes OR did the WH try to neutralize the issue that had been gaining the simplicity traction even as early as last fall's election?
    Not unlike a chicken-egg puzzle, one's answer depends upon what one was predisposed to think at the outset of the issue's rise.

    Parent

    Funny how the CNN (none / 0) (#25)
    by observed on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:00:42 PM EST
    apparachick this morning didn't ask him about that.


    Parent
    yea (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by CST on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:07:22 PM EST
    I've read a few articles on Huntsman now, all positive, all designed to make him sound nice and not scary for liberals, and not one of them mentioned that.

    Very telling about the news media priorities.

    Parent

    Right, the apparaChick asked questions (none / 0) (#31)
    by observed on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:09:43 PM EST
    which made it sound like he's not conservative enough---which gives him a wholesome bipartisan appeal compared to the rest.

    Parent
    the media LOVES Huntsman (none / 0) (#89)
    by BrassTacks on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 01:38:47 AM EST
    I do not. period.  

    Parent
    Even if (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by sj on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 05:39:01 PM EST
    it did cause O to move to the left during the general election (and I'm not convinced he would) I don't trust him to govern to the left once in office.

    It's really painful to be a liberal these days.

    Parent

    That it is . . . (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 05:42:19 PM EST
    It's really painful to be a liberal these days.

    at least in 2006, we had hope things would change with the next election . . . .

    Parent

    I think the media likes him (none / 0) (#18)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:36:24 PM EST
    coverage of him that I saw was pretty decent. He also has roots where I live now, so he got some extra play locally. "Most Popular Governor" was pretty much attached to his name in the first couple of sentences in what I saw. It would certainly make the primaries and general easier to watch if they focused on him vs the crazies.

    Be kinda funny to watch him and Obama try to out-reasonable each other :P Would be even better if what you suggest (push O to the left) happened. Not sure how much I would trust it though . . .

    Parent

    Huntsman is a Mormon, like Mitt, (none / 0) (#26)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:02:05 PM EST
    and yet, in my reading about his candidacy I don't find the same anti-Mormon comments that people make about a Romney candidacy. In fact, Huntsman's religious affiliation is hardly remarked upon.

    So, if people believe that right-wing Christians will never vote for Romney because he is Mormon, why would they vote for Huntsman?

    Parent

    Just read that Huntsman refers to (none / 0) (#33)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:18:46 PM EST
    his LDS faith as his "heritage."  When the Repub primary battle is really joined, the competition between the two LDS Utahns could be fascinating. Does one knock the other out quickly; or do they level each other politically in that primary system...leaving room for Pawlenty or Bachmann?

    Parent
    I don't think Pawlenty is much (none / 0) (#44)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:56:29 PM EST
    of a threat to win. Unless of course it's a wallflower contest. Putting Mittens next to Huntsman, I think in the end, it may go to Huntsman. Mitt has some history to deal with. Be interesting to see what they can dig up on Huntsman. And if he falls into the flip/flop trap.

    I think in the end we are going to see Reasonable Adult In The Room, D vs Reasonable Adult In The Room, R.

    Parent

    In that case, his church is telling him (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:29:25 PM EST
    to be against same-sex marriage, urging donations, and issuing yard signs.

    Parent
    The angle on his faith right now (none / 0) (#41)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:48:41 PM EST
    (that I've seen) has been, yes he's a mormon, has lots of kids, but also has 2 foster kids and is raising one Hindi in keeping with her faith. It's also wrapped up in the fact he specks Chinese in 2 dialects.

    Are they still busting on Romney for being a Mormon? (haven't been following Mittens too closely yet). Isn't that so 2007?

    Parent

    Oh no. Not another "media darling." (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 10:47:18 PM EST
    Don't worry, republicans won't nominate Huntsman (none / 0) (#90)
    by BrassTacks on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 01:40:46 AM EST
    They're out for blood, Huntsman is too meek and mild and too far left for them!

    Parent
    I am in the same boat (none / 0) (#84)
    by Politalkix on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 10:11:29 PM EST
    I am hoping that Huntsman will win the Republican nomination. We can then have a GE between two decent and reasonable candidates. The crazies on both sides of the political spectrum would be left without a choice. IMO, that is good for the country. As you said, I will not vote for Huntsman and would like him to lose; however, I can live with him as President.

    Parent
    You know (none / 0) (#119)
    by cal1942 on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 09:54:50 PM EST
    you're probably right.  When Bush was pitching his Social Security privatization schemes Democrats actually united.

    Now we have Max Baucus talking about Medicare cuts, other Democrats avoiding giving unequivocal support and Obama ain't sayin' nuthin'

    IMO, many rank and file voters don't know what Democrats stand for anymore.

    Parent

    Jon Huntsman's candidacy is apparently (none / 0) (#11)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:17:32 PM EST
    the major concern of President Obama, probably because Huntsman plans to occupy the center-right--a place that Obama has sought to carve out for the "new/Obama Democrats."  Of course, by "center-right" I am referring to the old-fashioned terminology, which is now the "right" as compared with the ruling Republicans who are extremist right.  Those of the "professional left" and moderate left are taken for granted or for cranks, banking on their feeling that they have no sane place to go.  The Obama campaign surely hopes that Huntsman will not make through the Tea Party Republican primaries, but if that crowd smells a winner in Huntsman, tightly held ideologies may be discarded.

    Parent
    The TEA party will NEVER support Huntsman (none / 0) (#91)
    by BrassTacks on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 01:41:47 AM EST
    He's not conservative enough for them!

    Parent
    I think no one is (none / 0) (#100)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 09:37:36 AM EST
    conservative enough for many of the Tea Party Republicans, save for Attila the Hun, and he, disappointingly for them,  is not available.  Huntsman would have to do a lot of flip flops, not unlike Mittens, for any hope in the primaries, and as you note, that is still not likely to be enough.  Huntsman, perhaps because he is less known, seems to have the advantage over Mittens of being the "non-Mormon, Mormon".  Maybe due to being not being the first on the national stage.

    Parent
    I am a little wary (none / 0) (#10)
    by CST on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:15:55 PM EST
    of the chicken and egg correlation here, as I recall living in a country where something like 75% of people believe in a supernatural power, but only 50% of people believe in science, and 10% of people still think the earth is flat.

    That being said, Obama clearly isn't helping the situation.  And more importantly, what he personally believes matters a lot more right now since he is in a position to actually do something about it.

    I had similar thoughts (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:38:04 PM EST
    To me, Obama is just going along with what Republicans long ago convinced most of the country of (probably including himself) - tax cuts create jobs, etc.

    I would have much rather preferred a president who would attempt to educate and persuade the public of the efficacy of better policies, but Obama is not that guy. He is happy staying where the majority of the people already are.

    Parent

    That's what leaders do, (none / 0) (#92)
    by BrassTacks on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 01:42:58 AM EST
    They lead.  Obama is a star, not a leader.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#17)
    by lilburro on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:32:54 PM EST
    I am not necessarily worried about what the American public supposedly thinks, but we are in a lose-lose situation here.  Either Obama sucks at negotiating/is a chump, or this is what he actually wants.  That Kevin Drum of all people is making the case that this is what Obama wants is somewhat alarming.

    Parent
    From Greg Sargent (none / 0) (#21)
    by lilburro on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:41:36 PM EST
    Obama and his team decided the best way to recapture his central political identity -- even at risk of weaking Dems in negotiations -- was to re-emphasize his role as a conciliator who simply refuses to accept that Washington needs to be the way it is and who won't ever abandon his faith that differences can be bridged.

    On the upside, at least we can argue about triangulation again...

    "Conciliator"? (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:44:43 PM EST
    More like "capitulator."

    Primary challenger, please.

    Parent

    OT to the extreme: (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:34:26 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton supports Saudi women in their push for females driving in Saudi Arabia.  


    Parent
    well, that's a surprise . . . . (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:59:34 PM EST
    I'll take (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 05:44:18 PM EST
    some old style Clinton style triangulation any day over Obama new style capitulation. At least Clinton started negotiating from the left and there was some decent policy.

    Parent
    "his faith that differences (none / 0) (#24)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 03:48:38 PM EST
    can be bridged", should probably be read as "his faith that he can bridge the differences."  After all, he prides himself that Tom Coburn was one of his best senatorial colleagues---see. if he can do it with  the reactionary Coburn, why not the world?

    Parent
    I beg to differ. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Gerald USN Ret on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:21:51 PM EST
    As somewhat of a military history buff myself, I think highly of Prof Hanson and his analysis in general even in politics is pretty good.

    only.

    We've discussed where unemployment will be at the time of the next election and there have been suggestions that it will be 9-10%.  I've tended to think that if we were at 7 or the low 8s, Obama and the dems would be OK.

    Despite the waive of bad or OK news, here is the latest prediction from the CBO:

    Between 7.8 and 8.2 percent in 2012.

    Before the waive starts, I know that may or may not be the true unemployment number and yes, I get it, Americans are still suffering with unemployment that high  I get all of that and agree with some of it.  

    It's just that fro a purely political perspective, Obama is likely going to be able to say that the first half of his term was spent stopping unemployment from rising and the second half was spent getting the number to where it was when he took office.  The argument will be that the second term will be about continuing the trend so that we're in the 5's when he leaves.  

    I tend to think that will work.

    I think we are headed to a double dip (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:49:57 PM EST
    jobs recession myself.

    Obama is in for a tough one in 2012. And all because he let Geithner call the shots on the economy.

    Parent

    My family isn't going to let me fall through (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 05:11:12 PM EST
    the cracks. And I thank my lucky stars that they're in a position to be that backstop.

    Some of my friends and peers are likely totally screwed. And it was all preventable.

    No jobs out there.

    Parent

    "...in the 5's when he leaves." (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 04:52:19 PM EST
    Keep dreaming.

    Parent
    "For political purposes" - heh (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Yman on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:31:20 PM EST
    As if there could possibly be any other reason to look at unemployment, apart from how it affects Obama's election prospects.

    Heh.

    Parent

    You might as well have said, (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 09:52:56 PM EST
    "Americans are still suffering, yadda, yadda, yadda," that's how dismissive of that suffering you are, and how much of a hurry you're in, as usual, to throw out delusional projections about where unemployment will be by 2016.  At the rate he's going, Obama will think that homeless people selling apples on the street is a jobs program.  And you'll be telling everyone what a really good thing that is.  Jesus.

    When functional unemployment is in the 18% range, when - and I'm truly shocked that this isn't of any real concern to you - unemployment among black males is in some places as high as 34%, no one gives a crap about gaming Barack Obama's political fortunes.

    Obama's policies have done nothing to put people back to work, and there is little indication that that particular trend is going to do a u-turn.

    I truly have no idea what you see in Obama, but I think you are in serious need of an eye examination.

    Parent

    AngryGuy (none / 0) (#96)
    by lentinel on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 06:00:13 AM EST
    I truly have no idea what you see in Obama...

    Everything that Angry writes about Obama is impersonal.

    During the campaign of 2008, there were many folks clogging up blogs with Obama talking points. They complimented those who said "Ooo" and "Ahhh", and were insulting to or dismissive of those who did not go along with the herd.

    They all disappeared once the campaign was over.

    I once asked Angry what made him angry.
    The context was a comment that he made in which the treatment of Private Manning was something of zero concern to him.
    He responded that what made him angry was 1)  the GOP and
    2) any challenge to the legitimacy of Obama's presidency.

    The wars, the economy, unemployment, people losing their homes... these little items did not make his list. His sole stated interest had to do with the political fortunes of the Madison Avenue creation in the White House.

    And also - his moniker: We are making an assumption that Angry is in fact a guy, and is in fact black. You know, to me, calling someone a "black guy" is something white people say.

    Parent

    Not a chance in hell (none / 0) (#50)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 05:22:28 PM EST
    Combine the fact that current right wing economic paradigms have triumphed (hopefully only in the short term) with ever increasing technological innovation (replacing more flesh and blood -- we need to eat -- workers) and "competition" from more and more countries and peoples...and, at some point, you have to have a conversation as a nation, that results in making, ultimately, a firm and humane commitment to people over maximum profit.  That is, since we know very well that the capitalism game played without equitable and enforced rules (what we have now) will always lead to an unsustainable sort of economic apartheid, we cannot have progress on employment at this point in our history, knowing what we know, without a clear and unambiguous national emphasis on JOBS FOR THE SAKE OF JOBS.  Profit is fine and dandy and great...it's just beholden to the RULES OF FAIR PLAY.  If we can ever bring ourselves to demand them and ensure their implementation.

    Parent
    It's not a partisan issue (1.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Slado on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 05:35:36 PM EST
    It's a black and white one.

    Both sides are wrong.   There are no easy fixes.

    We've been working on this problem since the 50's and the idea that a stimulus, or tax cuts or anything that's on the table will help is delusional.

    We have a massive debt train streaking downt he tracks and we can collectively tighten the belts or get smacked in the face in about 10 years.

    Forget what Washington is selling on both sides.   We cut government spending and deal with the consequences as best we can or we face calamity in the coming years.

    We can't grow out of it, we can't tax cut out of it and we can't tax hike out of it.   We can only slowly work our way out of it through Austerity and that's the cold water in the face no one wants to talk about.

    On either side.

    Parent

    With all due respect (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:40:58 PM EST
    that's complete twaddle.


    Parent
    It's a GAME (none / 0) (#59)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:24:31 PM EST
    Currency is game pieces.  You design the game rules so that innovation, achievement, luck, whatever can still be rewarded with wealth, you keep a high ceiling, I want one, creativity and imagination and freedom demand a high ceiling, BUT...you simply and clearly assert, you ENFORCE as one of the most important RULES of the game that the FLOOR will always be generous and ensure the least among us do not have to resort to desperate measures to survive.  That is, they will always have a job that keeps them functioning and contributing members of society, even if the profit-driven private sector has no place form them at the moment.  

    Parent
    Because, as we all know, money... (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:31:24 PM EST
    ...is a completely artificial thing, whose value is determined by nothing more than human thoughts. We control it entirely, it does not control us.  Period.  Were it a sparrow beloved in Capistrano, or a buffalo prayed for on the plains, all the austerity nonsense might have merit.  Might.

    But since we use fiat currency, please, as I said at the beginning...it's a friggin' game!

    Parent

    Swallow in Capistrano, obviously (none / 0) (#63)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:32:40 PM EST
    Smooth spelling error though.  lots of sparrows in southern O.C., too.

    Parent
    Yup, things are looking peachy (none / 0) (#52)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 05:37:46 PM EST
    on the economic front for O . . . .

    link


    Parent
    The article you posted (none / 0) (#81)
    by Politalkix on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 09:55:53 PM EST
    says "Still, the poll also showed the public to be conflicted about the president. And their perceptions about the national economy were often at odds with their own personal experiences.

    More people -- 56 percent of respondents -- had a favorable impression of Obama himself than approved of his performance. Moreover, about three-quarters of the survey participants said it is unrealistic to expect noticeable results on the economy in one term.

    And despite the overwhelming sentiment that the national economy is in poor shape, more than three of five of those polled rated the financial situation of their own households as good."

    In other words, 60% of those polled rated the financial situation of their own households as good. Don't overlook this statement.

    Parent

    See also AP poll out today with (none / 0) (#83)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 10:01:28 PM EST
    similar internal conflicts (and bottomline of 52% approval rating for the President.) Takeaway: People are unsettled with charged, changeable feelings...and, they still have relatively high opinion of Obama in relative and straightforward terms.

    Parent
    Score! ... for the media (none / 0) (#97)
    by Nemi on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 06:27:13 AM EST
    Moreover, about three-quarters of the survey participants said it is unrealistic to expect noticeable results on the economy in one term.


    Parent
    Even if the (none / 0) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 05:50:04 PM EST
    CBO is right, Obama will probably lose the election with those numbers. They aren't good enough and times have been bad enough that people aren't going to be forgiving towards Obama. They are going to want him out of office. They gave him his chance and he failed. A miracle is going to have to occur for Obama being reelected. Either the GOP will have to be on a suicide mission and nominate someone like Bachmann or unemployment goes further down than what the CBO estimates.

    Parent
    He won't lose, (none / 0) (#93)
    by BrassTacks on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 01:48:01 AM EST
    He's our first Black President.  He'll win for that reason, if nothing else.  People want to see the first Black President succeed.  He can't be a failure, no matter what.  

    Parent
    I know there (none / 0) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 08:45:21 AM EST
    are people that feel that way but are there enough that do? That's always the question in my mind.

    Parent
    A key question (none / 0) (#103)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 03:28:43 PM EST
    may be the voting level of Hispanics. Central demographic in significant electoral states.

    While I can't remember which of the bazillion polls mentioned an eyebrow-lifting factoid in recent weeks, here is an interesting thing to consider as well: <Paraphrasing> While the overall approval numbers for the President have been ok in a historical odds-of-reelectability sense, the numbers are actually better than the general conclusion would convey...because the President has mid-50s level in 3 of the 4 geographical regions, losing only the south...and the electoral numbers mostly in states outside the south.  Apparently, the numbers are lopsided in the south; and, that is sometimes accounting for the general approval number being lower than what would be projected for the electoral vote. (Since I paid attention to the comment, it must have been something like Pew or PPP, etc.)

    Also: While this won't have an impact in the upcoming election, that demographic number that has long been hypothesized is reported in the paper today as having occurred. ToWit: The number of non-white babies born in the US now exceeds those considered caucasian. Actually, in recent years, the overall demographics in a Presidential election has led to a calculation whereby lesser & lesser numbers of white voters are needed to win if offset by relatively high minority turnout. ('Seem to recall that, when Kerry ran, the white vote had to be @43 percent. Now, I believe that the thinking is the contest is winnable with 38 or 39 percent, assuming high minority turnout.)

    Parent

    Clarify my paragraph abou regional results (none / 0) (#104)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 03:31:44 PM EST
    In referencing electoral votes outside the south: That is where the big majority of electoral votes are found...and that corresponds to Obama's strength per the poll. (I'll try to locate the name/date of the recent national poll.)

    Parent
    I wouldn't be too sure about that ! (none / 0) (#99)
    by samsguy18 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 09:06:38 AM EST
    I've worked many elections here in Chicago.It's a well known fact Mambi Pambi does not react very well to criticism....... This is a guy who needs to be told how wonderful he is....

    Parent
    Excuse me (none / 0) (#105)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 03:33:50 PM EST
    To whom or what does "Mambi Pambi" in your comment refer? Derivation?

    Parent
    He's (none / 0) (#106)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 04:57:54 PM EST
    referring to Obama. I guess it's well known in Chicago that he doesn't respond well to criticism but it's pretty obvious to me too. He needs to surround himself with sycophants apparently.

    Parent
    That is an INTERESTING term. (none / 0) (#107)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 05:03:33 PM EST
    The people can't make him succeed (none / 0) (#101)
    by sj on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 10:34:27 AM EST
    He has to do that by himself.  The people do not bear the burden of his success, only reap the benefits or bear the consequences.

    Parent
    He can say that, but (none / 0) (#68)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 06:39:35 PM EST
    not with a straight face since he hasn't done **-all about reducing unemployment.

    Reminds me of Bill Clinton's famous characterization of "compassionate conservatism" as "Gee, I feel awful for you and I wish I could do something to help, but I just can't."

    Parent