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Friday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 02:48:16 PM EST
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    Friday Afternoon Open Thread | 52 comments (52 topical)

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    Whitey Bulger (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CST on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 03:07:31 PM EST
    arrived back in Boston today.

    I know a lot of people here may not know much (or care) about this case, but around here it's huge.  Don't take my word for it, just visit the front page of Boston.com

    For anyone looking to come up to speed, I thought this was a pretty good article outlining the background of this case.  And this is a pretty good article outlining some of the questions still to come.

    Essentially, this is such a big deal because Whitey was a mob boss/FBI informant who was tipped off by his FBI handlers in 1995 right before he was about to get arrested and that's when he went on the run.  It's arguably the largest FBI corruption scandal in it's history, as they essentially let him run rampant in exchange for bribes and information about his enemies, and it's also why everyone thought Whitey would remain free until he was dead.  I think it's no accident this took 16 years.  They needed to clean their own house first.  I bet there are a lot of former FBI agents who aren't sleeping too easy these days.

    Some side info that you won't find in the above articles - Whitey's younger brother Billy Bulger was the president of the MA state senate for 20 years - which occurred during Whitey's reign of terror.  He has never faced any charges.

    Also looking to get a crack at him are the states of Oklahomah and Florida where he has been charged with murder and may face the death penalty.  But he's 81, and Boston and the Feds go first.

    He's Promising to Sing like a Canary... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 03:27:00 PM EST
    ... about all the corrupt cops and FBI agents he paid off, which according to him is many.  I read a quote form him that was something to the effect 'Christmas is for cops and kids' when referring to bribes.

    Romney got his brother to resign by pressuring him to testify or resign.

    The FBI agent who got 10 years for tipping him off is getting released from the Fed in a couple day, then off to Florida to serve 35 years for his supposed tip-off that lead to a murder.  He's appealing, saying he never did it, the person who can exonerate him is no less than Bulger.

    This is going to get very interesting.

    Parent

    His brother (none / 0) (#7)
    by CST on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 03:35:28 PM EST
    actually did eventually testify.  And he resigned after a full vote of confidence from the UMass board of directors - saying the distractions were "bad for the school"

    When he did testify, it was found that he received a call from his brother shortly after he went on the run.  Although of course nothing was said during that phone call that could possibly help lead to an arrest.

    If there is one person who will come out of this as squeeky as can be it's gonna be Billy.  No way his brother would ever turn on him, if there is in fact anything more "there".

    Another big question right now is what will his girlfriend do.  She is much younger, and while Whitey has some grudges he will no doubt let loose on, she has a more personal incentive to cooperate.  Right now I believe she is facing charges for harboring a fugitive, but nothing in relation to his other crimes.

    Parent

    He's Too Old to See the Light of Day... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 03:42:37 PM EST
    ... I can't imagine he would care what she says.  Oklahoma and Florida want a piece after Massachusetts is done.

    This is big news everywhere, at least here in Houston.  It's been on all the national news stations, and even the local stations.

    Parent

    Day one in court (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by CST on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 04:09:47 PM EST
    some highlights

    He's been held without bail.  His brother was at court, with "no comment" to reporters.

    "In the second hearing, which took about 17 minutes, before Magistrate Judge Marianne Bowler, the issue of whether Bulger could afford a lawyer arose again.

    "Can you afford a lawyer?" Bowler asked Bulger.

    "Well, I could if you gave me my money back," Bulger said."

    I imagine there will be no shortage of soundbites in this one either.

    Parent

    "Gave me my money back"... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 06:08:11 PM EST
    Gotta admit, great line.

    I wanna hear Whitey talk about MK ULTRA at Leavenworth, maybe he was CIA and FBI.

    Parent

    Oh, this should be great fun (none / 0) (#26)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 10:54:25 PM EST
    Whitey has absolutely nothing to lose here, and I'm sure he has the same wit and talent for short zingers Billy always had.

    Whether anybody can believe anything he says about anything is another story.  I sure wouldn't.  As you say, he's going to have a great old time settling all kinds of scores, and there's no reason at all to believe he'll do it with the slightest regard for objective facts.

    But he's going to cause a lot of chaos for a lot of not so nice people, and I can't wait!


    Parent

    Too true... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 06:38:50 AM EST
    all with a grain of salt, he is an informer.  But no more or less believable than the FBI that made an asset of him...on with the show!

    Parent
    I saw a CNN interview with an (none / 0) (#5)
    by observed on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 03:28:50 PM EST
    ex-mafioso who said that Bulger was worse than the mob. That sure was fair and balanced coverage.

    Parent
    Probably true, though (none / 0) (#27)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 10:56:08 PM EST
    The Mafia has always had its own sort of code, but Whitey and his gang never did.

    Parent
    Other than protecting his brother (none / 0) (#25)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 10:49:16 PM EST
    by keeping his mouth shut, I've never heard of anything implicating Billy Bulger in any mob business, have you?

    Parent
    certainly not directly, no (none / 0) (#41)
    by CST on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 09:33:42 AM EST
    I have my own personal doubts about him, since he was Connolly's "mentor" and by all accounts, fairly close to his brother, and one of the most politically powerfull men in the state at a time where his brother was being helped along by the politically connected powers that be.  I don't think he would ever get his own hands dirty, but I have a hard time believing he was ignorent of it all, which is more or less what he claimed in court.

    But fair enough, he is the definition of "innocent until" - since he hasn't really been touched by any of this.  And I know a lot of people who think he was doing just fine at UMass and should not have resigned.  But then I also know plenty of people who would probably defend Whitey in some way too.

    You're right about one thing though, this is going to be one heck of a show.  Whitey didn't get to be top of the mobster food chain by mincing his words.  And I think we are going to see a stream of $hit about the FBI really soon, implicating all sorts of people we didn't know about.  As you said - I would take anything he says with a giant heaping of salt.  But it should be popcorn worthy.

    If anyone wants to read the original profile on him, the globe has re-released it, here is part 1, with links to the other sections.  I was a kid during most of it, so I didn't really know a lot of the "facts" of the case other than what you hear on the street, now I've just been gobbling up news.  Here is also a profile of the 19 alleged murder victims.  If anyone was wondering - they are not all mobsters.  There are a few ex-girlfriends and "whoops we got the wrong guy"s in there too.

    Parent

    My guess (none / 0) (#42)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 10:56:43 AM EST
    Billy and Whitey had a deal, spoken or unspoken, probably since they were very young and Whitey was just a garden-variety local hoodlum, that Whitey wouldn't share info about his doings with Billy to keep him clean.

    Parent
    certainly possible (none / 0) (#43)
    by CST on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 01:53:53 PM EST
    maybe even probable - but I also think Billy was very helpfull to Whitey in advancing his FBI "career".

    To be clear I do not think he had any direct dealings with mob related activities or events. I don't even necessarily think he did anything illegal. I just think that he probably used his connections and influence to help keep the heat off of for him so long.

    In other words, I think he's a super shady guy, but probably not technically a criminal.

    Parent

    Prohibition hits home... (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 03:21:22 PM EST
    on a Friday afternoon...one of the acquaintances I think I mentioned awhile back suffering with brain cancer is in a bad way for herbal medicine, his sister just called me frantic...unable to procure.  And it is all that makes what is left of his life bearable for him.

    I'll be helping them out of course, but it is beyond infuriating that this poor man (and his family for that matter) has to suffer needlessly for hours, when in a rational compassionate society his sister coulda been to the store and back 20 times by now.

    So a big F*ck You to NY State and Uncle Sam for their senseless cruel heartless brand of tyranny...a circle in hell awaits all who are party to and in a position to cure this prohibition sickness.

    Now I need medicine for nausea...grrrrr.

     

    Agreed, but You Know, Why the Wait ? (none / 0) (#6)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 03:34:26 PM EST
    Unlike government controlled meds, he doesn't have to wait until he runs out to get more, which IMO is a huge benefit for people who are suffering.  Just go see the street doctor, his hours are far more convenient.

    Waiting on Wallgreens and/or the doctor when in pain is IMO a far worse hell then dealing with the technical illegalness of MJ.

    Parent

    He's a square... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 05:47:58 PM EST
    Never smoked in his life.  His doc recommended he try it. And my friend, his sister, is just an occasional partier with no good connects...came up dry this time.  Happens to the best of us under prohibition.

    Generally your correct, though I would add it ain't hard to find the heavily controlled hard stuff on the street either, though not as popular as mj...gaining ground though.

    Anyway, crisis averted...poor f*ckin' guy, I've never seen a human head look like that.  But he's in good spirits considering, amazing really, cracking jokes to make me more comfortable, can you imagine?  Strong dude.

    Parent

    That's the steroids (none / 0) (#30)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 11:00:40 PM EST
    to keep the brain from swelling.  Horrible.  I lost a friend to this a few years ago.  Not sure the "treatment" was worth the extra months of torture he got out of it.

    Parent
    Definitely a different scene in SF (none / 0) (#13)
    by Dadler on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 04:17:27 PM EST
    Plenty of clubs/clinics in the city, and a lot of delivery services if you're further away.  Right to your door.  A lot don't even charge delivery fees.  And they're cheap compared to the street or most clubs.

    And here's another ray of hope, though I'm sure it'll go down with a whimper like the rest.  Ron Paul and Barney Frank introduce a bill to end pot prohibition. (LINK)

    Parent

    How civilized... (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 06:17:17 PM EST
    we're a couple guys over to the left on the evolution chart back east, in this regard.

    We're gettin' some marriage equality on though...something to cheer about.  Pot smokers might be the largest oppressed sub-group in the state now...hopefully we're in the on deck circle, though Cuomo is Lame-o on this issue.  We know the Frank & Paul show is a no go.

    Parent

    Nuh-uh (none / 0) (#31)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 11:02:50 PM EST
    Come to VT.  Medical MJ has been legal here for a while, and the lege just passed and the new gov signed a bill to allow legal dispensaries.  Took 'em a while to approve a legal way to legally buy and sell something they'd decreed was legal to use, but we finally got there.

    Parent
    I should have specified... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by kdog on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 06:34:55 AM EST
    New York is the neanderthal state...NJ is even moving in the right direction on this, though they're having the problems with a dispensing model, and the ever present federal threats.

    It's why I always thought it wiser to skip over for medicinal use only laws and go right to legalization across the board, no problems dispensing then...but with the feds and their jackboots that's not practical at the state level I guess...and it would be criminal not to get the chains and cages and hassles off the back's of the sick, at the very least.

    Sorry about your friend G-Falc...nasty business.  

    Parent

    My dad got a prescription (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 11:19:00 PM EST
    in Colorado

    Parent
    The life and death of Paul (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Nemi on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 04:47:09 PM EST
    the Octopus Vulgaris/cephalopod who became a beloved celebrity world wide during the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, has been documented on screen.

    Says director Philippe:

    "The news is just so dreadful, day after day, around the world, so I think the world is always craving stories like this; an underdog story -- or rather an underoctopus story. Just everything about it is fun. No one has really been able to do what Paul was able to do. It's charged with positive energy and feeling, and people couldn't help but embrace it."
    Now, I 'believe' that everything can be explained rationally, yet I savor the coincidences life offers. Like this - Philippe again:
    "There's the significance of the number eight -- eight tentacles, eight matches predicted correctly, eight goals scored during the tournament by Spain. It's all very interesting."
    Fascinating animal ... and highly intelligent I'm certain. But psychic? Hardly. ;)

    I don't know (none / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 10:59:15 PM EST
    I think he might have been psychic.

    Parent
    Not psychic, but (none / 0) (#32)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 11:04:35 PM EST
    Octopuses are clearly far more intelligent than the size and structure of their brains would indicate, given the way scientists have decided to measure such things.  They are really, really cool animals, I think.


    Parent
    Cool indeed :) (none / 0) (#40)
    by Nemi on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 07:24:52 AM EST
    And no doubt highly intelligent too. It really is a shame that it has been abused as a scare object when in effect it is a deeply fascinating creature with admirable qualities. What about the Mimic Octopus, to name but one?
    This animal is so intelligent that it is able to discern which dangerous sea creature to impersonate that will present the greatest threat to its current possible predator. For example, scientists observed that when the octopus was attacked by territorial damselfishes, it mimicked the banded sea snake, a known predator of damselfishes.
    Wonder if it could actually be trained - like e.g. to search for interesting and/or valuabel things in ship wrecks at the bottom of the sea. :D

    Parent
    NY Marriage Equality looks like a go (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by andgarden on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 04:55:24 PM EST
    The pound of flesh is apparently a bogus nonseverability clause related to the religious "protections."

    Not a big deal IMO.

    Agreed. (none / 0) (#20)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 06:22:36 PM EST


    Parent
    They just wanted to wait until Friday night (none / 0) (#21)
    by andgarden on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 06:39:47 PM EST
    to make sure it had the least news impact possible.

    The Republicans have a really tough needle to thread here.

    Parent

    You are right and I (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 08:15:27 PM EST
    hope that traditional Friday night news drop works for them.   But, this is pretty big and is not likely to get easily  buried--but we will not tell them.

    Parent
    I was pleased to see that Geert (none / 0) (#2)
    by observed on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 03:11:39 PM EST
    Wilders was acquitted in his hate crimes trial in the Netherlands.
    I was appalled to read comments by many Dutch people that Wilders' criticism of Islam should not have been allowed.

    Ditto With the French (none / 0) (#10)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 03:55:07 PM EST
    Galliano and his hate speech trial.

    Wilders was actually on trial for inciting violence against Muslims.

    I for don't have much of an issue if a country wants to criminalize hate speech, there is no reason IMO for anyone to use it, in any form.

    And certainly countries that have been taken over by Facists have that right.

    I'm not suggesting we follow suit, but it's one of those things I that wouldn't bother me.  Certainly if I was a person who hate speech was directed at, I would be down with outlawing it.  It serves no benefit and the product is increased hated.

    Freedom of speech in America is about as accurate as the word freedom or democracy.  Something people wave like we actually have it, but when you look deeper, our speech isn't that free.  I could type something here that would probably end with a couple of suits at my front door, so if you are going to protect one man from that sort of speech, why not protect everyone.

    Parent

    Can't agree with you there. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by observed on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 04:03:29 PM EST
    Hate speech ought to be extremely narrowly defined. I could see Michael Moore convicted of hate speech in some courts.


    Parent
    I'd go even further... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 06:49:08 AM EST
    I can't support hate speech laws at all...freedom of speech must include the freedom to hate, as sad as hate is.

    Hate is an emotion, to ban or attempt to ban it's expression through words or art is lunacy to me...better to get it out in the open to be countered with love speech...thats how you win, not with prosecutors and laws to be misapplied and abused.

    Denmark, France, most of Europe is getting it very wrong, imo.  Bizarro Taliban sh*t.

    Parent

    Actually it is political speech (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 08:53:14 PM EST
    that is free and protected in the Constitution.

    Commercial speech is not protected and is not free.

    Your employer can dictate what you can say and you can be sued for slander and libel against a private individual.

    Maybe some attorney can better define the difference between a public and private individual.

    (I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but it didn't go that far.)

    ;-)

    And Wilders was on trial for some of his statements and his video that showed various Muslims making various statements.

    Parent

    Better spend another night (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Yman on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 09:32:52 PM EST
    You're jumping around a bit, so the logic is a bit hard to follow, but suffice it to say that:

    1.  Commercial speech is protected under the Constitution, but it is afforded a lesser level of protection than other types of speech.

    2.  Some political speech is free ... others (i.e. campaign/issue ads) are not.

    3.   You can be sued for defamation (i.e. libel or slander) against both private and public persons, although the burden of proof is higher against a public figure (i.e. you must prove actual malice).

    4.  An employer may or may not be able to "dictate what you can or cannot say", depending on the circumstances.  Two Supreme Court cases allowed the firing of at-will employees for engaging in certain speech, but both cases (and other cases) have noted that free speech restriction by a private employer which violate an important public policy would not be permitted.

    But, other than that ...

    ... you're right on the mark.

    :-)

    Parent

    Not to mention the recent SC (none / 0) (#28)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 10:58:33 PM EST
    ruling on drug companies being entitled to the "free speech" of collecting info on our prescriptions, whether we want them to or not.


    Parent
    Well, it's always nice to have my (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 02:26:54 PM EST
    New Shadow show up and fill in the details...not everyone has one although we may all need one.

    ;-)

    Of course you didn't answer the question.

    Parent

    Didn't realize there was one (none / 0) (#45)
    by Yman on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 02:54:30 PM EST
    Must have been distracted by all the innaccurate legal information ... ahhhh, well ...

    Do you mean the difference between a public and private figure?  The standard was spelled out in New York Times Co. vs. Sullivan 376 U.S. 254, (1964).  Read it and I'd be happy to hear your creative re-interpretation of it.

    BTW - Not sure exactly what the public/private defamation standard has to do with Geert or Galliano, since they're not U.S. citizens and it's not a U.S. case.

    Happy to help!  :-)

    Parent

    Now any Shadow worth his salt (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 09:45:00 PM EST
    would break that down into words that us mere mortals can understand.

    I must say you are not turning in a very good performance.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Why bother? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Yman on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 10:24:12 PM EST
    It's just gonna get mistranslated into wingerese after that, sooooo ....

    Parent
    That's a bad attitude for a Shadow to have. (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 26, 2011 at 08:26:26 AM EST
    I mean, if one can't depend on his Shadow, what is left?? Dedication, my good man. Dedication. If you're not careful I won't be able to provide you with a positive recommendation.

    Parent
    "Diversion", my good man ... (none / 0) (#49)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 26, 2011 at 09:35:40 PM EST
    ... "diversion", should be your motto, Jim, which is while you steered the subject away from your faulty, illogical, irrelevant, and just false legal advice.

    BTW - A "positive recommendation" from a winger?

    Talk about an oximoron.

    Parent

    A helpful nod (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 10:47:16 AM EST
    from a social liberal should be helpful to anyone.

    And perhaps if you could make your responses minus the snark I would not remind us that you are my New Shadow?? Or are you the Old  renamed?

    Parent

    Heh, heh, heh ... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Yman on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 03:46:45 PM EST
    "Social liberal" and a dose of paranoia to boot.

    You gotta love a two-fer in such a short post ...

    Parent

    College Lineman Lifts Car to Save Man's Life (none / 0) (#8)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 03:37:39 PM EST
    A Cadillac no less.  
    I love it, real live Hulk's amongst us.

    Here

    Stein collection spec. exh. (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 06:08:56 PM EST
    @ SFMOMA is a don't miss. And huge. Timed tickets avail.on line.

    You talkin' beer steins (none / 0) (#33)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 11:05:45 PM EST
    or Gertrude Steins or what?

    Parent
    Thanks! Think I'll see if my mom (none / 0) (#35)
    by nycstray on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 12:45:45 AM EST
    wants to go. You going to see Picasso?

    Parent
    The Stein exh. at SFMOMA is (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 12:18:19 PM EST
    huge but interesting.  Quite crowded when we started--at 2:30 p.m. on Friday.  Crowd did thin out as the afternoon went on.  Companion exhibit at Contemporary Jewish Museum is also very interesting.

    Didn't make it to Picasso.  

    Parent

    All SEC Final (none / 0) (#36)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 12:53:36 AM EST
    Gators vs Gamecocks

    And an extra congrats to the University of Florida for making it to the NCAA Championship in both Softball and Baseball this year.

    Friday Afternoon Open Thread | 52 comments (52 topical)

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