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Thursday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 08:46:37 AM EST
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Once the country is saved from debt ceiling kabuki, what happens to the economy? New jobless claims are down this week:

First-time claims for state unemployment benefits fell more than expected last week, dropping below the important 400,000 level for the first time since April, according to a government report on Thursday. Jobless claims dropped 24,000, to a seasonally adjusted 398,000, the Labor Department said. [. . .] The prior week’s figure was revised to 422,000 from 418,000.

But this is a stalled economy which has not been creating jobs in a meaningful way:

The government is expected to report on Friday that the economy grew at a 1.8 percent annual rate, according to a Reuters survey, after a tepid 1.9 percent pace in the first three months of the year. On Wednesday, the Federal Reserve said growth had slowed in much of the country in June and early July.

And there is no reason to expect improvement. After the President enjoys the debt ceiling fight's result - while he is not trusted on the debt ceiling, the GOP is even less trusted - will he realize that no one is going to give a crap about that next November?

Open Thread.

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    Thursday Morning Open Thread | 86 comments (86 topical)

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    Why cite government employment numbers... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 08:57:05 AM EST
    ...when they are all factually proven lies that are ALWAYS revised negatively later?

    This nation exists in a state of pathological denial and self-delusion.  Nothing positive can come from that.

    It's going to take masses in the streets, a lot of ugly confrontation and battling,or nothing will change.  It is beyond obvious we are at that point.  The powers that be have no interest in helping anyone do anything but stuff their fat pockets and stroke their tiny d*cks.

    When we decide to revolt, genuinely, then we might be talking.  Right now, however, all avenues for voters to make real change are dead.  

    Masses in the streets... (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 09:24:24 AM EST
    a little taste yesterday in LA, an impromptu free assembly block party, not a protest, but it gives us an idea of what we will face if and when we decide to try something meaningful to right our course.

    Rubber bullets & bean bags for starters...and all the kids wanted to do was rave, imagine if they wanted good jobs or health care or something that costs some cashish...the man might bust out napalm.

    Parent

    Dog, it won't be napalm (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 09:40:29 AM EST
    It will be real bullets.  Kent State, May 4, 1970.  A bunch of kids trying to do something meaningful- protest the senseless war in Vietnam.  Four dead, nine wounded.  (Although that one was the National Guard, not the police.)  Ten days later, Jackson State.  Two dead, twelve wounded.  That was the police- state and local.  It happened before, in my lifetime.  It may very well happen again.

    Parent
    I believe you are all too correct. (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:53:41 AM EST
    Today's so-called law enforcement is probably much more prone to violence and deadly force than the National Guard ever was in the 60s and 70s.

    Parent
    Too true... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 09:59:40 AM EST
    and no doubt it will happen again, if people get off their knees.

    We didn't learn from the 30's, why would we learn from the 60's?

    Parent

    Unfortunately, (none / 0) (#15)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:14:45 AM EST
    we never do seem to learn the lessons of history.

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."  
    George Santayana


    Parent

    Here's another one (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:55:49 AM EST
    Homeless man tased five times and beaten to death by Fullerton CA cops.

    While people look on, I might add. I can't blame them too much - interfering would get them tased too probably. But what kind of people have we become? My mom lived in Fullerton for a time, and so did I. It is about as average a town as you can find.

    Parent

    Jesus H... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 11:15:06 AM EST
    if we dug deep enough, we could fill this open with nothing but recent police brutality stories and authoritarianism run amok.

    Though here's a ray of hope on the taser front, pending appeal of course.  Maybe civil courts will prevail where constitutional protections and elected leadership have failed.  

    Though in our corporate-fellating system, I wouldn't bet against Taser Int'l in the appeal.  

    Parent

    Oh my God (none / 0) (#76)
    by sj on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 05:57:13 PM EST
    With trepidation, I followed that link to the extremely graphic photo.

    That poor man.  That poor man.


    Parent

    Napalm is soooo yesterday (none / 0) (#8)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 09:52:02 AM EST
    IMO the Active Denial System (ADS) weapon or something similar is what will be used.

    The ADS weapon's beam causes pain within 2 to 3 seconds and it becomes intolerable after less than 5 seconds. People's reflex responses to the pain is expected to force them to move out of the beam before their skin can be burnt.

    A few kinks to be worked out; portable versions and a system for controlling riots from the air and the government will be in business.

    Parent

    I've heard about that... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:02:41 AM EST
    heinous tyranny gadget...too spooky.

    I'm scared to even contemplate what other tyranny gadgets are in the R&D phase.  Devolution baby.

    Parent

    So if they eventually use this (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:22:25 AM EST
    for "crowd control," with the expectation that people will just get out of the way before they get burnt- what happens if the crowd is so thick that many people in the middle cannot move quickly enough?  How about someone disabled or injured who cannot move out of the way?

    Parent
    People will die (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:27:19 AM EST
    But they will blame the people

    Parent
    "Murder is a crime!.... (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:33:20 AM EST
    Unless it was done by a policeman or aristocrat".

    Know Your Rights

    Parent

    Use tazers for reference to (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 11:44:54 AM EST
    answer your question. It will be too bad, so sad but it was their fault for not accepting their fate and bowing down to authority.

    Parent
    Yes, MO Blue, (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 01:19:56 PM EST
    I was thinking about tazers, as well.  You die after being tazered?  Well, it wasn't the police officers fault!  You should have followed his orders immediately, and in fact you should have been quiet and compliant in the first place!  I need a new country.   :-(

    Parent
    Can we all move to your mountain top (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 01:34:00 PM EST
    and create a Zorba Republic, separate and distinct from the current government. ;o)

    Parent
    Hmmmmm (none / 0) (#49)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 01:38:55 PM EST
    "The Republic of Zorba."  It has a nice sound to it.  Although, somehow I think that the State of Maryland and the United States of America would not let us secede.  The Civil War sort of settled all that.   ;-)

    Parent
    Always room... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 01:52:46 PM EST
    on the pirate ship you two:)

    Parent
    Aside from fish and seafood, (none / 0) (#56)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:19:34 PM EST
    where are you going to get the rest of your food?  You may have to come ashore at times and sneak on up to the mountain- we have all kinds of food!

    Parent
    Good call... (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:33:26 PM EST
    and a place to stash our booty!

    As long as you're willing to accept risk of UN sanctions against the Republic of Zorba for harboring pirates:)

    Parent

    LOL! (none / 0) (#62)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:39:07 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    The pirate ship will certainly (none / 0) (#57)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:23:09 PM EST
    need to put into port on occasion, if only to stock up on scurvy-fighting fruits. Limeade, anyone?

    Parent
    Rum and limeaid (none / 0) (#67)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 03:41:56 PM EST
    Great summertime drink. Especially good if it is made like a frozen margarita.

    Parent
    I seem to recall (none / 0) (#73)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 04:58:51 PM EST
    that I read somewhere a long time ago, or I was told, that "grog" (rum, water, and lime juice) was issued to early British sailors, to give them some relief (the alcohol in the rum) from both the rigors and boredom of the sea, to dilute the rum so that they weren't too drunk on their @sses to perform their duties, and the lime juice was added to prevent scurvy.  I don't know if that's true or not, and I'm too lazy to do a Google search.  (And I love a good frozen margarita, MO Blue- are you mixing?  Invite us over!)

    Parent
    If I was mixing, I think I would mix (5.00 / 0) (#77)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 06:53:23 PM EST
    up a batch of frozen rum and limeaid. Good stuff when it is 100 degrees at 6:44 p.m. god only knows what the heat index is and I don't want to know. BTW, rum can really sneak up on you. One minute you are fine and the next your are drunk on your @ss.

    I'm currently on a diet and exercise program as part of a two year clinical trial. Since the results may help develop treatment that will reduce the reoccurance rate for breast cancer survivors, I'm sticking with the programs guidelines (not cheating at all). An occasional glass of white wine* is the extent of my alcohol consumption. Since I only have x number of calories to spend that means less food for the day. A margarita would take up most of the calories for an entire meal.

    *Yes, I know red wine is said to be better for me but I don't like it.

    Parent

    Yes, the lime juice provided the vitamin C (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 07:01:14 PM EST
    needed to ward off scurvy, which had been decimating the British navy for ages. And each sailor did have a daily ration of rum. I don't know about the water, but it makes sense that the rum would  be diluted, if only to make a keg last for the whole journey.

    Another little factoid about the British navy and alcohol: India Pale Ale (IPA) was developed by British brewers specifically to make the long sea voyage from Britain to India. At the end of the four month journey the beer, which traveled in barrels, had properly aged and was ready for the drinking.

    As the health and well-being of the crew is of paramount importance on our pirate ship, we will always carry sufficient citrus fruit. Also, we'll stock plenty of gin and tonic in which to swirl those lime wedges. We will have to carry ice, though. Gin and tonic w/o ice is one British drinking custom I have never cottoned to.

    Parent

    And think of it this way (none / 0) (#82)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 08:22:02 PM EST
    With the tonic, you won't get malaria.  ;-)

    Parent
    Like I said, the health and (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 08:24:33 PM EST
    well-being of the pirate crew is paramount. Whatever it takes. :-)

    Parent
    Once Texas secedes courtesy of Perry, (none / 0) (#66)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 03:39:30 PM EST
    it will open the door for "The Republic of Zorba." ;o)

    Parent
    Well, (none / 0) (#74)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 05:00:59 PM EST
    there is that.  If they let Texas secede, maybe we can secede.  Although I think my state and my county might have other ideas.  ;-)  (OTOH, West Virginia did secede from Virginia after Virginia seceded from the Union, so who knows?)

    Parent
    Very discouraging (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:21:06 AM EST


    Parent
    That's the point... (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 11:06:58 AM EST
    can't have the people thinking they are "we the people"'s streets...no ma'am.  

    Today just looking for a good time release, tomorrow they might want redress for grievances...can't be tolerated.

    Parent

    Congressional Black Caucus (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 08:58:23 AM EST
    Congressional Black Caucus Chair: We Will Only Support A Clean Debt Ceiling Vote

    The Congressional Black Caucus has come out in opposition to the Reid Plan, which includes trillions in cuts that would devastate minorities the most.

    The Congressional Black Caucus's Position on the Debt Ceiling No Cuts, No Cap, Just Raise

    Wednesday, July 27, 2011 at 4:50pm

    Washington, DC - Today, the Democratic Members of the Congressional Black Caucus officially took a position in support of a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling. Chairman Emanuel Cleaver released the following statement below:

    "Let us remove every partisan reason to fight. Every rational American understands the need to pay our national debt. It is reckless to play Russian Roulette with our economy and with the solvency of our great nation. Democratic Members of the Congressional Black Caucus support a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling. We have run out of time between now and August 2nd to hash out a well thought out plan to address the debt ceiling, deficit reduction and revenue increases. Members of the Caucus are disappointed that some have used this debate as a distraction from the real crisis Americans continue to face every day-- joblessness. We must reduce the deficit with a fair, and balanced approach that includes both revenues and spending cuts. Until we can achieve such a plan, we must raise the debt ceiling to give the markets certainty, avoid more disarray and prevent irresponsible cuts. We cannot in good conscience support bills that require draconian cuts that disproportionately affect the most vulnerable communities. Yesterday we learned of the ever-widening wealth gap between white Americans and minorities. We cannot support anything that will further handicap those in our community. We all agree that we have to responsibly to reduce the deficit but not on the backs of hard-working American families, all while protecting special interests and the wealthiest Americans. People of color, seniors, and children heavily rely on vital programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Deep cuts to these critical programs would devastate our community.

    "Now is the time for real work to be done, jobs to be created, and to protect and uplift our citizens. It is not the time for ideological wars. It is time to cut and cap the political games!"
    Right on Emanuel! (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:01:05 AM EST
    Finally, someone says something resembling sanity.

    Parent
    I am glad to see this (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 01:26:33 PM EST
    I just wish they had started to beat this drum a few weeks earlier in the process. Some things need to be repeated over and over again to drown out the "safety nets must be cut to save the world" crowd which unfortunately includes Obama and most news outlets who feature all those "serious people."

    Parent
    Nobody will care (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 09:27:21 AM EST
    about the debt ceiling bill unless he also cuts social security, medicare, et al.  Then they will care about the bill and he's toast.

    Oh, I think when more jobs are lost (none / 0) (#13)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:05:40 AM EST
    as a result of near-term spending cuts, people will absolutely notice, regardless of whether the safety net gets cut; I don't see Obama getting points for cooperating in the manufacture and sale of a crisis that ends up contracting the economy if - by some chance - the safety net comes off the table.

    The only hope I have for the safety net - and it's razor-thin - is Congress coming to realize that Obama's just going to blame them when things go south, which may make enough of them more determined to reject any recommendations by any new Deficit Commission that might be created that call for cuts to Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.

    I think, at this stage, the consequences of any deal that's getting any consideration is going to be ugly, or uglier.  So...ugly/uglier, bad/worse: not much of a choice, is it?


    Parent

    Here's our recovery (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by smott on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 09:45:02 AM EST
    From NYTimes -
    >>>>>
    In their newly released study, the Northeastern economists found that since the recovery began in June 2009 following a deep 18-month recession, "corporate profits captured 88 percent of the growth in real national income while aggregate wages and salaries accounted for only slightly more than 1 percent" of that growth.
    The study, "The `Jobless and Wageless Recovery' From the Great Recession of 2007-2009," said it was "unprecedented" for American workers to receive such a tiny share of national income growth during a recovery.
    According to the study, between the second quarter of 2009, when the recovery began, and the fourth quarter of 2010, national income rose by $528 billion, with $464 billion of that growth going to pretax corporate profits, while just $7 billion went to aggregate wages and salaries, after accounting for inflation.

    The share of income growth going to employee compensation was far lower than in the four other economic recoveries that have occurred over the last three decades, the study found.
    According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, average real hourly earnings for all employees actually declined by 1.1 percent from June 2009, when the recovery began, to May 2011, the month for which the most recent earnings numbers are available.
    "Aggregate employment still has not increased above the trough quarter of 2009, and real hourly and weekly wages have been flat to modestly negative," the report concludes. "The only major beneficiaries of the recovery have been corporate profits and the stock market and its shareholders."

    >>>>>

    The top 2pct are doing quite well, thank you.
    Or should I say,
    Thanks, Obama.

    And the real cynicism of it is (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:05:31 AM EST
    that pols think that when people see news of profits going up and the market doing well, they actually believe they are better off themselves.


    Parent
    Absolutely nauseating (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:32:19 PM EST


    Parent
    Do you have a link? (none / 0) (#45)
    by nycstray on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 01:10:03 PM EST
    would like to read the whole thing . . .

    Parent
    Sure my bad (none / 0) (#81)
    by smott on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 08:18:47 PM EST
    Here's the whole thing with Lambert snark as extra!

    http://correntewire.com/president_fuck_yous_policies_on_disemployment_mission_accomplished

    Parent

    Plot thickens. DSK's PR team resets. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Addison on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:42:08 AM EST
    DSK Accusers remarks misportrayed, says Diallo's lawyer after listening to full tapes of conversation.

    wow, sounds like at the very least (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:21:54 PM EST
    whoever leaked the information about her phone calls to her friend in jail seriously misrepresented the content and context. Nice work.

    Parent
    Key graphs (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:40:30 PM EST
    "The [NYTimes] has reported, citing an anonymous law enforcement official, that Diallo said "words to the effect of, 'Don't worry, this guy has a lot of money. I know what I'm doing'" to her friend shortly after Strauss-Kahn's arrest.

    "But on the tapes, her mentions of Strauss-Kahn's resources and her knowing what to do are made at different points, and in contexts that cast them in a considerably different light, Thompson said.

    "In her first conversation with the man, she didn't mention Strauss-Kahn's wealth at all...

    "In a subsequent conversation, she told her friend that her attacker "is powerful and rich," her lawyer said. But it was earlier in that conversation -- and not in connection with any mention of Strauss-Kahn's status -- that she said "I know what to do" to signal that she gone to authorities, planned to hire a lawyer and would be all right, Thompson said."
    -------
    I was suspicious of that anonymous "something to the effect of" quote in the Times from the get-go, and from this account, it sounds like it was a deliberate falsification.


    Parent

    Shocking (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:15:20 PM EST
    Not.

    Parent
    Another thought-provoking (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 11:22:04 AM EST
    piece today, via DB, is this Newsweek review of a new book which asserts that the world's greatest political leaders have all had some mental quirks or madness to some degree which actually helped them as they managed the major crises of their times.  

    Abe, FDR & Churchill (bouts of major depression), and  JFK & MLK ("mania") -- all, in the view of the author, had such psychological non-normalcy which enabled them to succeed.  Whereas apparently presidents like Nixon and George W. Bush could have benefitted from being less normal.

    Wait! (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:43:39 PM EST
    Nixon and GWB were too normal?  Is that what this is saying?

    Nixon was pretty darn close to barking mad, and GWB was profoundly, cripplingly neurotic.

    Parent

    Exactly. Not to mention Hitler (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:05:57 PM EST
    I think the more accurate conclusion is that sometimes abnormality helps, and sometimes it hurts.

    Did not need a book to tell me that.

    Parent

    Well, imo, Nixon was a (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 03:42:07 PM EST
    borderline personality (paranoia, deep personal insecurity) from the beginning, although in the Final Daze some of his top aides -- like SecDef Schlesinger -- feared he might do something rash, such as arranging a distracting war somewhere, and so quietly arranged with the JCS not to allow the president to be able to give the launch attack orders he normally would have as CinC.  Schlesinger also feared that Nixon might not leave if impeached and convicted, and would arrange with others in the military to stay in power via a friendly coup.  (see wiki entry on James Schlesinger)

    I'd hate to think of someone like Nixon needing further mental disorders in order to "govern well".

    I'd have to check out the book when it's published to see a) whether a lot of what gets published these days in the nonfiction area is a bunch of nonsense, and/or b) whether the author himself needs some psychiatric evaluation and counseling ...

    Parent

    Never a stable man (none / 0) (#86)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 09:07:33 PM EST
    Nixon was coming completely unwrapped in his final months in office.  It was very, very scary to read about in memoirs after he helicoptered off into the sunset how close we came to real horror as you describe.

    Parent
    Nixon (none / 0) (#64)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:47:05 PM EST
    was indeed "barking mad."  I'm no psychiatrist, but he sure sounded and behaved awfully paranoid, at the least.  And GWB?  There was more than a little speculation years back that he was a "dry drunk."
    "Dry drunk" traits consist of:

            Exaggerated self-importance and pomposity
            Grandiose behavior
            A rigid, judgmental outlook
            Impatience
            Childish behavior
            Irresponsible behavior
            Irrational rationalization
            Projection
            Overreaction

     Link.  (Just Google "George W Bush as a dry drunk" if you want more links- there are tons of them.)


    Parent
    Don't forget Coke Stroke (none / 0) (#80)
    by smott on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 08:17:29 PM EST
    Brain damage/aphasia and all that....

    Parent
    Oh, yes (none / 0) (#84)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 09:00:22 PM EST
    There's that, too.  And add to it the sense of entitlement that he seems to have grown up with.  After all, every time he had a failed business, he never had to suffer the consequences.

    Parent
    Dry drunk or not, he had/has (none / 0) (#85)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 09:05:28 PM EST
    horrendous "daddy" issues his entire life and a genuinely sadistic mother.  He didn't even need "dry drunk." (Though I freely entertain the possibility.)  He would have been only semi-functional at best even if he weren't, IMO.

    Parent
    A place of agreement, gyrfalcon! (none / 0) (#65)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 03:29:19 PM EST
    When I read that "study" or whatever it was, swearing off any "studies" or analyses became an option to consider. Maybe this strange study mixes up its terms--or there is a real question of who is sane in that article.

    Shades of you-won't-have-me-to-kick-around-anymore Nixon.

    Parent

    Just think how much you'll be (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 03:48:16 PM EST
    missing ... You won't have Nixon to kick around anymore.  Because, gentlemen, this is my last press conference.

    (that's how I recall the quote, from memory -- quite a farewell performance from quite a peculiar character.  and too bad, for all of us in this country, that he didn't deliver on his implied promise to retire from politics ...)

    Parent

    Latest diary re-do out soon (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 01:45:39 PM EST
    I had posted it last night, but there were some problems with it. I'm working on it, and will get it posted later, I expect.  

    I sort of feel like I've been run over by a truck today, so it'll be tonight, probably.

    Is there an insta-pill to understand HTML and other such things? I wish!

    Ugh, getting pulled out of Luddite-ism kicking and screaming.

    Re last night's now disappeared diary: (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:08:41 PM EST
    Bottom line reaction:  get thee back to your doctor ASAP.  

    Parent
    ANOTHER precription. (none / 0) (#72)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 04:37:08 PM EST
    this antibiotic means I can't go out in the sun unless long sleeves, pants, and big hat.

    The beach will not be fun in two weeks, lol.

    Parent

    Get a big life guard hat, 100 sunscreen, and (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 05:12:05 PM EST
    a huge umbrella to stick in the ground.  And, prehaps, confine your time on the sand to b/4 10 and after 4.  Long tanning rays. {I give this advice as the former spouse of a dermatologist!]

    Parent
    Find sunscreen that contains zinc oxide (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 07:05:11 PM EST
    or titanium oxide. These are the only two substances that properly block both UVA ad UVB rays.  And wear sun glasses with polarized lens. It is kind of shocking how much damage happens to the eyes w/o sun glasses.

    Parent
    Jobs (none / 0) (#3)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 09:16:37 AM EST
    some good news, anyway.

    These (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:06:28 AM EST
    numbers aren't good enough to help Obama but I do hope the job trend continues because there are a lot of people hurting right now.

    Check the above from NYTimes (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by smott on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:19:46 AM EST
    Even if there's a positive job-trend, there ain't no money going to the workers.

    Yes we potentially hired a few more 50+ ex-IT engineers to be Greeters at Wal-Mart. That's it.

    We're in a Recovery for the Oligarchs and a Depression for the bottom 98%.

    Parent

    We were notified yesterday (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:30:31 AM EST
    that our homeowner's insurance policy will not be renewed because of the tornado risk.  I wonder who WILL insure us.

    MT: (none / 0) (#26)
    by the capstan on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:56:45 AM EST
    My sister's entire family (3 generations grown and married) all have United States AA insurance on everything.  Check their website.  They go by initials only (must have military connection to get it), so I just wrote out what I suppose the first 2 initials stand for.

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    thank you!!!! (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:57:31 AM EST


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    I had actually found (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:59:04 AM EST
    someone with a better rate than USAA.  I figured that in the end they wouldn't let us down, but even they have become much more profit driven lately.  They do insure us on some things, but not our house.

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    Interesting article (none / 0) (#22)
    by CST on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 10:34:13 AM EST
    on the possible plan Bs.

    Included are: making a bunch of coins.  Apparently you can't just print money, but you can just mint coins.  This is the first time I've seen that one floated.

    The second idea, if I'm reading this correctly, is for the government to sell property, to itself.  I think...

    And the third is of course, is the constitutional option.  Although in this case, there is no power to spend that money on things like, social security, and there would be a government shutdown.

    However, and here this writer goes onto alternative 4 - congress has given Obama 2 conflicting instructions.  Spend the money, but don't borrow the money.  So he could declare one of those two orders unconstitutional, and start spending.  That may induce the house republicans to impeach, but the democrats have the senate, and the basic premise this guy has is that no one will impeach the president for choosing to continue paying social security in the event that congress still fails to raise the debt ceiling if the government shuts down.

    There's a good, related (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by brodie on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 11:12:13 AM EST
    piece today at the DB from Tomasky about why Obama won't act unilaterally, a fairly sharp overview of the president's personal and political attitudes which make the 14th Am and similar moves most unlikely.

    Particularly sharp, but a not unfair a reading of O's mindset, is Tomasky's statement that Obama still believing that the other side can be politely reasoned with to bring about good governance -- just like he reasoned with student conservatives back at the Harvard Law Review -- is like a 15 yo still believing in Santy Claus.

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    Well the whole premise (none / 0) (#38)
    by CST on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:09:09 PM EST
    of this article is that congress will fail to raise the debt ceiling, and force Obama's hand.

    Not that this is Obama's plan, but that he will be forced into this situation.

    Frankly, I've been saying since day 1, I don't see how a deal gets done.  Now maybe they pull something together last minute, but I don't see the votes for anything on the table right now.

    And no matter what Obama says, he can't force congress to act.  So if they do not act, then what?  That's the starting point for the article.  At some point he may have to face that reality whether he wants it or not.

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    Coin seigniorage - there's been (none / 0) (#35)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 11:46:20 AM EST
    discussion of this in some places for quite some time.

    From a guest post at naked capitalism:

    The idea of using coin seigniorage to remove the need for issuing debt, and so to always stay under the debt ceiling, is due to a commenter (and occasional blogger) on economics and politics blogs whose screen name is beowulf. He first presented the idea in comments and then posted the seminal blog on coin seigniorage. Throughout the next six months, a number of other posts appeared at various sites (see here for links) with increasing frequency as the debt limit problem received more attention. In the last few days, as coin seigniorage itself climbed up the hierarchy of public awareness, Felix Salmon and Matt Yglesias, both well-respected, mainstream, and professional bloggers, have mentioned the proposal while taking issue with it for reasons I'll analyze below.

    Before, I do that however, here's what's involved in proof platinum coin seigniorage. "Congress provided the authority, in legislation passed in 1996, for the US Mint to create platinum bullion or proof platinum coins with arbitrary fiat face value having no relationship to the value of the platinum used in these coins. These coins are legal tender. So, when the Mint deposits them in its Public Enterprise Fund account at the Fed, the Fed must credit that account with the face value of these coins. This difference between the Mint's costs in producing the coins and the credit provided by the Fed is the US Mint's profit. The US code also provides for the Treasury to periodically "sweep" the Mint's account at the Federal Reserve Bank for profits earned from these coins. Coin seigniorage is just the profits from these coins, which are then booked as miscellaneous receipts (revenue) to the Treasury and go into the Treasury General Account (TGA), narrowing the revenue gap between spending and tax revenues. Platinum coins with huge face values e.g. $2 Trillion, could close the revenue gap entirely, and technically end deficit spending, while still retaining the gap between tax revenues and spending.

    Neither the 14th Amendment Solution, or the Coin Seigniorage Solution will ever be used, because this isn't about the debt limit, it's about shrinking government and pushing a political and ideological agenda - on both sides.  

    The debt limit has been raised over and over and over again, in all combinations of Dem/GOP administrations/Congresses, as a matter of housekeeping; given that it happened seven times while GWB was president, it should stand to reason that any hysterical argument by Republicans about the financial and economic Armageddon that would happen if we didn't get our financial house in order could be easily and swiftly neutralized  - if that were actually the agenda of this president.  

    But it's not.


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    I'm coming to believe that this (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:03:09 PM EST
    is about shrinking prevailing wages.  I'm not necessarily against having wages that can compete globally, but that would mean that we need some deflation in the United States so that people can afford to live on that wage.  That isn't happening, and the economic remedies that this administration has sought prior to this made necessities more expensive and this statement from President Obama seems to be opposed to the economy experiencing deflation.  So average people have been placed in a pressure cooker and the cover screwed down tight.

    As a military family I've experienced the pressure cooker, and it's bull$hit.  It is like the times that I have argued with BTD that it is okay for military leaders to have disagreements with the President....because it just isn't okay to kill your people or force them into impossible circumstances simply because you are "The Decider".  President Bush did that to my family, President Obama never has.  But President Obama is doing it to his civilians.  The health department here that provides enormous services to this under served community is now cutting to the bone, they have to.  People are being forced into impossible situations, our leaders will kill people doing what they are doing.  There is no plan B.  There is no net when people fall.

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    The world gets weirder (none / 0) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 11:38:44 AM EST
    Discovered at Zerohedge, Ronaldo is bank collateral now :)

    Definitely don't like... (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:00:07 PM EST
    the sound of that...next thing ya know they'll be gambling on Rinaldo & Kaka Default Swaps.

    You'll like this one MT...if you're gonna steal houses at least keep up with the upkeep, Bankster.

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    if downgrading our debt status (none / 0) (#40)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:25:43 PM EST
    will cost us more in interest on our loans, why isn't anyone on fire at congress and the tea party for creating greater debt in their jockeying for less debt?

    That would require... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:50:05 PM EST
    a fully functioning rational brain JLV.

    Me thinks its less about the debt than classic "kick the dog".  Ya know, the jealousy over somebody somewheres getting more dole than the "keep your government hands off the taxpayer subsidized scooter I drive around my residence posing as a farm for another subsidy" brigade.

    We may have reached or passed the "Idiocracy" breaking point.

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    Will those of you who studied econ in (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:06:03 PM EST
    college please go read Armando's latest diary at DK as well as the comments?  Lively discussion but seems to assume more knowledge of the subject than this reader has.  Thanks.  

    Can't help ya there... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:30:02 PM EST
    but I enjoyed your LAT link on the friendly neighborhood drug smuggler yesterday...if I only had the stones, and didn't have severe cage-phobia.

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    Did you see the LAT photo of (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:32:16 PM EST
    people "planking" in front of LAPD in Hollywood?

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    Link: (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:34:21 PM EST
    Planking

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    Searching.... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:46:15 PM EST
    Now I have...I was ignorant of "planking", an excellent form of non-violent civil disobedience in action.

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    Well BTD you got your wish (none / 0) (#70)
    by CST on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 04:29:05 PM EST
    Bob Bradley was sacked.

    Oh, and I don't know if you've noticed, but the Red Sox are on fire.  The NFL lockout is over, thanks in large part to the man at the top of the Pats organization.  Speaking of the Patriots, they just traded for their latest "fixer-upper", and appear to be headed to another winning season with their defense relatively intact (Mankins and possibly Light).  Hopefully they can get over their playoff slump.

    Um, other than that, I hear NY has a few teams.  Not sure what they've done lately though :)

    Finally (none / 0) (#71)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 04:30:42 PM EST


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    Thursday Morning Open Thread | 86 comments (86 topical)

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