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Atrios As Matt Yglesias' Cab Driver

Matt Yglesias writes:

This, right before our eyes, is a living, breathing example of why presidential speechmaking doesn’t do the things people say it does. It doesn’t even have the intended impact on its intended audience! Is Atrios fired up and ready to go? Prepared to stop writing sarcastic, depressed, and dismissive blog posts and instead go hard against the president’s critics, boosting the morale of the president’s audience? No, he’s sarcastic, depressed, and dismissive because the objective situation is depressing and everyone knows the jobs plan won’t pass.

I love Atrios but the prototypical voter he is not. Yglesias needs to find a more "representative" Friedmanesque cab driver.

Speaking for me only

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    Is Atrios depressed? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:34:00 PM EST
    I have this impression of him avoiding depressed people :)  Understand....I've only seen him from across the room with someone pointing to him and saying "that's him".  I'm cracking myself up today.

    Actually, my impression of "Atrios" from across the room is that he is idiot intolerant :)  Pretty high minded and sort of snobby in this world if you ask me.

    Maybe (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:52:33 PM EST
    Maybe Atrios isn't "fired up and ready to go" because Obama isn't saying the right things at the right time....Hmmm, is that possible?

    If you're going to fire people up, you do it by speechifying the right policy at the right time.  People take this policy to their reps and fire them up with it.

    None of us are fired up and ready to go and support a policy that feeds the rich while ensuring that the economy continues to tank in middle America.

    Matt, you can't just say ANYTHING and expect the minions to follow. My, how did you get your job with such a ridiculous lack of common sense.

    I don't think they can just tell us what we (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:57:40 PM EST
    want to hear this time either and have us all get fired up.  You can't precrap on your base over and over and over again and then think they'll believe that you will fight for them this time :)

    Listen to me....all depressed....where's the Prozac......crap....Prozac doesn't make you forget, it just makes you not care and you can't fire that up either :)  That's not a boat going to anyplace, that's just a party barge.

    Parent

    But (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:08:08 PM EST
    I don't think they're even telling us what we want to hear THIS time...

    Hobble Social Security to "save the economy"?  Nobody wants to hear that.

    Tax cuts for people to hire, when they don't have the money or demand to hire?  What a stupid idea.

    Etc etc.

    And what little good is offered in the latest speech obviously won't pass now.  And they know it and they dragged their feet and waited until they knew good policy wouldn't pass...hmmm.  And that's why cynical Atrios stays cynical even in light of some things that would potentially be promising.  And anyone who doesn't see that is either living in a vacuum or deliberately ignoring the obvious....

    Parent

    Nope they aren't telling (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:22:37 PM EST
    us anything we want to hear, and now they are punching us for not loving the new Democrat which is nothing new....it is only an old Republican.

    We will have people fighting for the existing Democratic power structure and we will have people fighting to improve brokedown palace and I think we must have both.  We know who Yglesias bats for and we know who Atrios bats for on that necessary field.  But I suppose that Yglesias  is going to be chapped at Atrios right now because Atrios won't shut the hell up and Yglesias feels like he's leaving him twisting in the wind that only three years ago Yglesias was so confident to twist in :)

    Parent

    You know what? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:25:36 PM EST
    I followed that on the first reading :)

    Parent
    This sure hits the nail on the head (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:32:46 PM EST
    they are punching us for not loving the new Democrat which is nothing new....it is only an old Republican.

    Didn't support the old Republican before and don't intend to support it now even though it is now called the New Democratic Party.

    Parent

    I've thought about that (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:09:51 PM EST
    Listen to me....all depressed....where's the Prozac......crap....Prozac doesn't make you forget, it just makes you not care and you can't fire that up either :)
    While stipulating that many people have a genuine need for antidepressants, too often it is simply the soma of our era.

    Parent
    If you're going to get people (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:00:29 PM EST
    fired up, it's not only about "speechifying the right policy at the right time," it's also about showing people that you're willing to actually fight for that which you are "speechifying" about.  Unfortunately, we've seen very little of this willingness from Obama.  He can talk a good game, but that's not what he seems to be willing to go into the trenches and fight for at the end of the day.

    Parent
    Yup (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:08:26 PM EST
    that too...

    Parent
    I'd be willing to bet that no matter (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:02:06 PM EST
    how conservative the bill was, there would be those - including the usual Democrats - who would declare that it wasn't conservative enough.

    And since it would still be true that a liberal bill - whether a little liberal, somewhat liberal or flamingly liberal - wouldn't be likely to pass, one once again has to wonder why, then, can't the liberal side of the policy be the starting point, providing tons of opportunity to shape the narrative around something that could actually get people fired up?

    I'll tell you why.  Because when those more liberal policies became part of the conversation, and the people rallied around them, overwhelmingly demonstrated in poll after poll that they supported them, Democrats and their special interest pals killed them.

    We're seeing this right now on the safety-net issues, and all Obama and way too many Dems for my liking can see or think about or demagogue is: DEFICITS!!!  WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING NOW!!!

    The truth of the matter is that Obama is out selling this bill for one reason and one reason only: he wants to be re-elected.  Do I blame him for wanting four more years?  No.  But I do blame him for neglecting this issue for so long.  And because he waited until campaign season was heating up, when the other side is determined to not give him one thing he wants, it's unlikely that the bill will pass - so there goes any chance of whatever was good about the bill ever benefiting anyone.

    I blame him for playing politics in pursuit of his own interests at the expense of the people who so desperately need help.

    I don't presume to speak for anyone else, but I don't rally around anyone just because he or she is a Democrat.  In fact, it makes me a little ill thinking about getting behind someone I know is not working in my best interests - I get that there is something in it for the object of the rallying, but what's in it for me - for the country as a whole?

    And how does rallying around someone who is pushing bad policy increase the chances that we will ever get better policy?

    It doesn't.

    Anne (none / 0) (#52)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:07:56 PM EST
    I was favorably surprised by the new Obama jobs plan, which is significantly bolder and better than I expected. It's not nearly as bold as the plan I'd want in an ideal world. But if it actually became law, it would probably make a significant dent in unemployment.

    A reasonable and smart liberal can believe that, right?

    Parent

    A 1% dent is significant? (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by lambert on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:12:06 PM EST
    Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

    Parent
    I dunno (none / 0) (#56)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:35:25 PM EST
    Show me one who does.

    Parent
    the quote (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 03:05:14 PM EST
    is from Krugman's column of the morning after the speech

    because of course everybody here who is to the left of Obama, & everybody here who has any criticism of Obama's jobs (sic) plan (sic), is also & automatically a clone of Krugman & must therefore now agree absolutely with Krugman that Obama's jobs (sic) plan (sic) is significantly bolder than Krugman (that is, than we Krugman clones) expected, as if Krugman's praise were not rather faint praise to begin with

    Parent

    Oh, quite underhanded for ABG (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 03:14:27 PM EST
    to write that without attribution, but par for the course.

    ABG just doesn't seem to get that we don't follow personalities with all the giggly enthusiasm of tweens in luuuuuv.

    I read Krugman to see if he agrees with me, not to get my instructions on what I should be agreeing with today.

    Parent

    my bad (none / 0) (#65)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 03:32:30 PM EST
    for exposing the trick question

    Parent
    Krugman (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 08:24:45 PM EST
    Doesn't represent all liberals but he did represent someone that the TL community respects.  I was interested to see what would happen if his opinion was channeled through my voice.

    Parent
    What happened (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 08:33:11 PM EST
    You managed to demonstrate that you and Krugman share something in common with respect to Obama.

    ... low expectations.

    Parent

    You mean, you aren't willing to (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 03:10:11 PM EST
    accept that ABG's a liberal?  I can't imagine why not...

    Maybe we need a new tag: "Obama liberal."

    If someone would just say, "I'm an Obama liberal," I would know to approach any conversation with that person as if I were speaking with a Republican.

    Parent

    Atrios is the perfect cab driver (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by lambert on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:10:28 PM EST
    [N]early nine in ten Americans who believe we are either a) in what feels like a recession or b) will be soon.

    Atrios is in that 90%. I do understand why an Obama apologist would try to make the DISemployment problem into a spat between pundits, because Obama can't run on his record, but really, this is a little transparent.

    I don't know why Atrios is depressed (none / 0) (#2)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:45:04 PM EST
    but speaking for myself I'm sarcastic, depressed, and dismissive because the objective situation is depressing and everyone who can analyze knows that what we know of the jobs plan won't help even if it passes.

    Tax cuts!!!  Deficit reduction!!

    I don't think Atrios is depressed (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:52:21 PM EST
    I only think him brutally honest and he doesn't care if he is stroked, but he gets stroked anyhow from a rather silent following because he says things everyone else wishes that they could say and we need some honesty around here :)

    Parent
    Well, I do agree with that :) (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:56:50 PM EST
    Completely.  Also with your statement that he is idiot intolerant.  

    I don't know if he's depressed or not.  But he is angry in a sustainable way.

    I'm not good at managing my anger in a sustainable way.  Which is not good when it is righteous anger.

    If that makes any sense at all.  I know what I mean, not sure I conveyed my meaning.

    Parent

    Well, I'm pretty (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:54:54 PM EST
    d@mned depressed, myself, sj.  What the he!! do we have to not be depressed about right now?

    Parent
    You are just exhausted from all that (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:06:42 PM EST
    cooking for the Greek festival.  The sun will come out tomorrow.

    Parent
    Yes, well. (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:52:54 PM EST
    Now they're telling me that our church has been asked to have a big food booth at some d@mned thing or other in mid-October.  I told the parish council, you go right ahead, but I won't be doing anything for it, I need more recovery time.  I think that I will definitely be out of town at the time.  My back, my knees, and every other joint in my body is still hurting.  I'm still looking for the sun.  

    Parent
    Not getting the cabdriver connection. (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 12:59:48 PM EST
    Probably because that last link doesn't go to anything mentioning same.  

    Tom Friedman's cab drivers (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    It's in the headline to my link.

    It is a pretty well known reference.

    Parent

    OK. Got the reference--now. But (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:05:47 PM EST
    link just gives me Atrios' headline.

    Parent
    Oh dear (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:13:20 PM EST
    It's a case of having to explain the reference.  Here it is (unless I have it wrong, too).

    Atrios is to Yglesias as cabdriver is to Friedman.

    Parent

    "Women of a certain age, . . ." (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:17:26 PM EST
    I should add however (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:23:43 PM EST
    that I know Atrios exists and can actually be quoted.  Not so sure about Friedman's cabdriver.

    Parent
    Why do you love Atrios? (none / 0) (#16)
    by lyzurgyk on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:11:36 PM EST

    He's way overrated and produces very little worthwhile content.   Only enough to keep milking that blog for every penny he can.   Not that I wouldn't do the same thing in his place.

    There are so many people (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:32:03 PM EST
    jealous of that dude.  It is hard.  He is wicked smart in 20 words or less every single damned day.  The truth though is that other bloggers have spent loads of times and money and typed their fingers to the bone building websites to attract and affect...and then there is Atrios, with a nickel and twenty words until tomorrow when he'll do it all over again.  Sad truth if you ever wanted to be just like Atrios, it isn't that hard if you are Atrios.

    Parent
    He has his audience because he was first. (none / 0) (#54)
    by lyzurgyk on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:27:11 PM EST

    If Duncan started the same blog now - with the same effort he makes now - it wouldn't create even a ripple.

    Parent
    I have heard all this before (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 03:43:56 PM EST
    And the day of the last milking never shows up, and we all show up to see what he says because he is nothing if not proficient.

    Parent
    Sort of like some other people (none / 0) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 03:49:54 PM EST
    unworthy people out there

    Parent
    Nice distraction (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by lambert on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:15:47 PM EST
    The issue is Obama's record of successfully implementing a policy of ~10% nominal (20% real) DISemployment, as far as the eye can see, how he's got to run away from that record, and how apologists like the poster are helping him do it.

    * * *

    That said, Atrios is an incredibly productive blogger who's managed successfully to steer the discourse. Takes work, even if he makes it look effortless. I don't agree with him on a lot of things, but technically he's a master.

    Parent

    Because he FINDS stuff (none / 0) (#18)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:14:11 PM EST
    Good stuff.

    Parent
    Saves him from having to write anything himself. (none / 0) (#29)
    by lyzurgyk on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:30:06 PM EST
     
    Atrios aside, Obama's speeches don't generate enthusiasm because he's proven he doesn't stand for anything in particular.   Except for trying to get re-elected.

    Parent
    Um, he knows economics. (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by observed on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:41:12 PM EST
    Unlike any pro-Obama blogger that I am aware of (although there are may be some).
    A few undergrad classes do NOT count.

    Parent
    He really understands economics (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:43:27 PM EST
    on a blood and guts level, not a happy go lucky lets securitize our security for the security of our security level.

    Parent
    I also remember many many moons ago too (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:35:29 PM EST
    when we were in the stock market too, doing what we were told to do for our future.  And I remember watching what was going on and some of our friends were playing around day trading, my husband got excited and wanted to do it too but I was a little bit freaked.  I told him that in my opinion something out there was creating false markets, something unethical was going on and I didn't really want to be a part of it all.  I was honest with him, I didn't know what it was...I only knew that the new reality made no sense.  Then I read this crazy blogger, calling it all a Big $hitpile.  And I loved him immediately because I felt just a little less crazy, and guess what??????  That guy was right.

    Parent
    No body who is pro obama (2.00 / 1) (#36)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:44:05 PM EST
    understand economics.

    Right.

    Parent

    Somebody (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:46:10 PM EST
    has a reading comprehension problem....LOL.

    Parent
    Newsflash? (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by observed on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:52:45 PM EST
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:15:06 PM EST
    not exactly a brilliant observation, was it.. ;-).

    Parent
    I will grudgingly accept that (5.00 / 0) (#43)
    by observed on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:51:04 PM EST
    some Obama bloggers do exceed your analytical skills by some quanta;in the meantime, do tell me which Obama blogger is or has been an academic economist (with a Ph.D). I can easily name several Obama critics with those qualifications---along with a couple of Nobels.

    Parent
    Although.. your statement does have (none / 0) (#47)
    by observed on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:54:01 PM EST
    some merit....

    Parent
    Oh please (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:41:22 PM EST
    Some bloggers write and write and write me into inane insanity or just a nap.  Just because someone spews verbiage doesn't make them something worth giving my time to to read consistently.  You can check in with Atrios and not fall asleep at your keyboard working your a$$ off to "get it" because he isn't working his tail off to bullshit you while also hoping the Obama administration notices what a good blogger he is.

    Parent
    If you think what he does is easy (5.00 / 0) (#37)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:44:12 PM EST
    I invite you to try it.  I'd give you a shot to see if you could hold my interest and/or make me think for 10 years or so.

    So far all his imitators have been just that.  But ::shrug:: it really doesn't matter, does it?  Not every site is for every body.  For example, I find Booman beyond ridiculous.  YMMV

    wrt O's speeches. I'm sure what you say true for many.  For myself, it's because I don't like his message.  Pretty much ever.

    Parent

    I can't believe you just said Booman (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:50:16 PM EST
    For some reason (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:52:15 PM EST
    that made me laugh really hard.

    Parent
    I have this sort of feeling (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:58:28 PM EST
    we are having a discourse with a Boomanish type person.  I may be wrong though, and there may be others out there who say that Atrios provides no CONTENT and is only milking his blog for every last cent...which several years down this road just....will....not....happen....this moment of the last cent :)

    As the leftwing blogosphere grows, quality of REAL content matters.  I don't want to die at the keyboard reading and trying to understand some windy over thought verbiage while my real life burns down around me :)

    Parent

    Love the last paragraph. If only (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 03:16:41 PM EST
    I could be you.  

    Parent
    No don't (none / 0) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 04:51:21 PM EST
    there was some ugly in there.  It has been a learning process too though for everyone.  The whole evolution of the internet and political voice has been really wild. And I'm glad I got to see some of it go down.  But there was a mean girls time too, I know how to be one sure but we all know what happens further down the road in that maturity process. In the end you either have the goods and you bring it, and the people (which are your market) like it and want to hear more from you, or you don't have it.  We are at that point now.

    And it isn't like providing content for magazines or newspapers where you can stand there with your degree and have something to hide behind on your off days, you are on your own every single day so if you want to be prominent you had better really have it and bring it :)  Some people feel under appreciated and they aren't happy with the audience they have, and they blame that on many things but not themselves :)

    Parent

    How do feel about the additional blogger (none / 0) (#74)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 06:03:53 PM EST
    on Digby?  (I think he is waaaay too wordy.)

    Parent
    Digby is another one of those (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 10:01:53 PM EST
    bloggers who says so much with so few words.  I like him but he isn't as good as she is.  I feel sort of spoiled having culled the voices out there and settling on those that speak to me with as few words as possible.

    Parent
    Exactly. Clear and concise and (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 11:30:54 PM EST
    with something to say.  That's the ticket.

    Parent
    Could not agree more (none / 0) (#23)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:24:07 PM EST
    It's been years since he provided an sort of real substantive analysis.

    He gives a link and then makes a two sentence quip about it.  I have an RSS reader.  I don't need a blog to do that for me.

    Too bad. He's a smart guy. Unrealistic IMHO, but smart.

    Parent

    He never did analysis (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by sj on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:34:29 PM EST
    (or not very often anyway) to my recollection.  Not analysis as most people view it.

    He has a very sharp scalpel in his mental arsenal -- extracting the essence in a meaningful way.  He's actually quite good at at, very often inspired and sometimes genius.

    And then there's that idiot intolerant thing that sometimes makes people resentful.  Usually when they're the idiots.

    But lots and lots of words don't necessarily provide clarity.  Often quite the reverse, actually.  Words are often a most excellent means of obfuscation.

    Parent

    OK (none / 0) (#20)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:20:57 PM EST
    Good to have a post directly on point.

    I believe that the Atrios/BTD position (let's call it for convenience) on the one hand and the THC/Yglesias/ABG position on the other hand are each reasonable and I do not think it is fair to assume that personal beliefs are interfering with the logical foundations of those positions.

    Particularly with THC, who has gained a fair amount of respect in the liberal blogosphere for being surprisingly tough on Obama in the past 6 months.  I referenced him specifically so that we could discuss without it being assumed that the comments were not logically thought out.  Is there anyone making this point that you would respect? You have deemed Chait, THC, and Yglesias to be hacks?

    How about John Dickerson or David Plotz at Slate? Or a number of folks posting at huffpo? They can't all be inferior in their ability to analyze the situation.

    The point I would make is that three prominent dem senators have come out on record and stated that they have real issues with the bill, and they would like to make it more conservative.  in that environment, what is realistic?  Should Obama give a big speech? He did that.  Should he travel the country demanding that we pass the bill? He's doing that.

    In essence he is now doing everything that the Atrios/BTD folks would like him to do.

    And he's not getting the support from the Atrios's and BTD's of the world.  That's really the Yglesias and THC (and my) point.

    How on earth do we expect him to take the complaints of the left seriously when he is in essence doing what they've asked and he's still not getting their help.

    We can quibble over whether the jobs bill will have an impact, but it seems crystal clear that any more liberal bill would have even less chance of passing.

    If the situation was reversed, the GOP would have their sites set squarely on rallying around the POTUS.

    They know how to prioritize their enemies and battles.  Liberals, frustratingly, do not.

    That's the real THC/Yglesias point. he says as much:

    "The other day Tavis Smiley made the point that president's job plan didn't go far enough. I'd bet a lot of progressives concur and I think pushing the point is healthy, legitimate, essential and fair. But it's also healthy, legitimate, essential and fair to then ask, "What would make more progressive legislation possible?" That line of thinking has to confront the kind of statements and action by Democratic Senators who evidently feel little or no pressure from their progressive base."


    Which groups has Obama listened (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:53:10 PM EST
    to over the last year.

    Has he taken action on the issues important to the  groups that have said please, pretty please Mr. President don't do that or please, pretty please do this but regardless of what you do I will faithfully send you money, work my a@@ off and vote for you regardless of what you do?

    Or has he he taken action on the issues important to the  groups who have very publicly protested and stated that they would not contribute, work or vote for him unless he took the action that they wanted?

    Your argument of "why should he listen to you" is not in any way backed by what has happened over the last year.

    This is what the people are seeing and hearing:

    "The president of the United States is now a member of the Tea Party!" said Hikind. "He said, in his own words, that there won't be Medicare and Social Security for my children and your children and my grandchildren unless we address Medicare!"

    That's not really a wedge issue - it's the slow death of a wedge issue. It's the start of a problem for Democrats, who have gone from attacking the Ryan plans for entitlement reform to vouching support for some undefined "everything on the table" entitlement reform. There might not be any way for Democrats to dodge this, and there's no sign that they want to. And that leaves all of them in the position of Democrats in New York's 9th. Their traditional base, weary of the recession, not sure what Democrats have to offer any more, are ready to be wedged.

    The president and many of the Dems have taken winning issues and turned them into a liabilities.  

    Parent

    Which groups? (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by lambert on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:16:34 PM EST
    The banksters. The Peterson Foundation. The Republicans. Why do you ask?

    Parent
    THC Analysis (none / 0) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:24:30 PM EST
    Freudian slip?

    FTR, Show me the analysis, and I'll tell you if I think it is reasonable.

    I don't look at the name and decide on that whether the analysis is reasonable.


    Parent

    I'll try it around here sometime (none / 0) (#38)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:45:09 PM EST
    and see if you are right.

    Doesn't make sense to do it now because it is expected.

    Parent

    Try what around here? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:47:08 PM EST
    THC?

    Parent
    I don't think this is right (none / 0) (#50)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:04:01 PM EST
    "I don't look at the name and decide on that whether the analysis is reasonable."

    Not the time to test it though.

    Parent

    I know it is right (none / 0) (#51)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:06:56 PM EST
    You are the one making the charge - demonstrate it.

    FYI, yesterday I endorsed a post by Yglesias.

    You can accuse me of many things, but one thing you can not accuse me of is not thinking for myself.

    Parent

    I wasn't accusing you of not thinking for yourself (none / 0) (#55)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 02:29:39 PM EST
    We've somehow crossed wires.   Not a big deal.

     

    Parent

    Also, too (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:27:30 PM EST
    Is TNC accusing "progressives" of being too easy on Tom Carper?

    How about Joe Lieberman? Did they give hiom a free pass too?

    I thought that was pretty funny from TNC myself, having fought the Lieberman battles with Jon Chait in the Aughts.

    Parent

    Exactamundo (none / 0) (#27)
    by vicndabx on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:28:28 PM EST
    Primary Carper!!! (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:29:30 PM EST
    Is that the message?

    Parent
    Oh BTW (none / 0) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 01:46:36 PM EST
    BTD has been supporting Team Obama's political moves since the speech.

    Hell, it is the Yglesias/TNC/ABG team who are not giving Obama any credit on the politics.

    Parent

    The jobs speech (none / 0) (#61)
    by lilburro on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 03:07:00 PM EST
    was supposed to increase his poll numbers.  The deficit talk this summer didn't.  Zogby says that it did improve his polling in head to head matchups against Perry or Romney.  Zogby is known for being unreliable, so I'll wait for another poll before I say that the gambit worked.

    The economic reality is depressing.  But the political situation, with Obama's poll numbers increasing because he chose a tactic preferred by Democrats, is a bit brighter.

    More fun from Mr. Yglesias (none / 0) (#68)
    by Addison on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 04:39:33 PM EST
    Matthew Yglesias was talking about himself. Think about it: Yglesias is a long-time blogger who focuses mainly on urban development issues, mass transportation issues, and macro-economic indicators. So is Duncan Black. He could hardly have picked a more similar person! Yglesias knew that speaking of his own disenchantment wouldn't be as effective, I guess, and so he uses a proxy. This is my theory!

    Also, absolutely "shocked" that Matthew Yglesias equates left-wing bloggers with President Obama's "intended audience". Yes, he actually thinks that! How did he ever come to that conclusion?

    Site violator (none / 0) (#78)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 08:36:30 PM EST
    World's longest spam list ...