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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:27:25 PM EST
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I've been cleaning out my parents' storage unit on weekends for the past 6 weeks, determined not to move the stuff to my house and fill it with clutter. I'm finally done. I just met GotJunk there and in 20 minutes they hauled everything away and swept the unit clean. As for the 11 boxes of financial and medical records dating back to the 1960's, they will take it to a shredding company which will send me a certificate.

What a relief. Now I'm taking my car to be thoroughly vacuumed to get the dust out from the boxes I did decide to keep.

As for selling the nameless crystal and china on EBay, forget it. There are thousands of baby boomers doing the same thing as their parents die and the place is flooded with the same stuff my parents had.

Moral of the story: Don't do this to your kids. Stop hoarding and throw stuff away. Hearses don't have luggage racks.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread | 109 comments (109 topical)

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    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by vicndabx on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:39:57 PM EST
    Stop hoarding and throw stuff away. Hearses don't have luggage racks.
    I can (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:43:28 PM EST
    sympathize. My mother in law is a hoarder. She had unmailed birthday cards to my husband that she wouldn't throw away. Getting them out of the house that they lived in for about 40 years was a literal nightmare. Over the last 10 years we've slowly been getting rid of stuff and every time she offers me something I take it because I know she won't get rid of it. I'll just drop it off at Good Will or somewhere when I leave her house.

    a painful task (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:43:39 PM EST
    on several levels

    my condolences, Jeralyn

    I'm totally stealing your great line (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:52:25 PM EST
    about hearses not having luggage racks, and using it on my husband - who, in spite of having helped me clear out my uncle's house, that when he died, was loaded top to bottom with stuff (to give you an idea, we filled a large moving box with boxes of zip-loc bags, that my brother and I split, and which took us the better part of 18 months to use), and then my mother's house, when she sold it to move to the retirement community, and finally, my aunt's house - when her husband died and we had to sell the house to maintain her in the nursing home, has resisted most of my efforts to de-junk so that we don't perpetuate the process with our own kids.  He's afraid I will throw out something of value, or something the kids might want someday; I told him that (1) I'm not so hardcore about this that I would do that and (2) the kids have already said they don't want most of what I would want to get rid of.

    "But, what if we need it someday?"  Hey, I have a novel idea: we'll buy one, or borrow one!

    Seriously, having done this three times, I feel suffocated by "things."  Some of what we've kept was definitely worth keeping, but a lot of it is not.  It can find new life with someone who actually needs it, or it can go to the dump.

    I've made some progress, but we have a long way to go.  

    the line (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:22:20 PM EST
    "Hearses don't have luggage racks" comes from a Don Henley song, "Gimme What you Got."

    You spend your whole life
    Just pilin' it up there
    You got stacks and stacks and stacks
    Then, Gabriel comes and taps you on the shoulder
    But you don't see no hearses with luggage racks


    Parent
    How many boxes of Eagles/Don Henley (none / 0) (#41)
    by magster on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:46:19 PM EST
    memorobilia do you have in storage? You are quite the fan!

    Parent
    I was quite the fan (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:20:58 PM EST
    but I traded him in for Bon Jovi. :)

    Parent
    Good judgment! (none / 0) (#71)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:29:07 AM EST


    Parent
    I have (none / 0) (#33)
    by Zorba on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:28:26 PM EST
    a barn and a tractor shed both half full of stuff from my mother-in-law.  Who died in 1995.  We do have most of her of antique furniture in the house, but the rest of the stuff is stored.  Fortunately, we have the room for it, but as we get older, I really wonder what the heck we're going to do with all of that when we decide to down-size and move to a smaller place.  I'm going to leave the decision up to Mr. Z., since it's his mother's stuff.  (Much of it is mineral specimens and fossils- she was quite a mineral and fossil collector- and the rest is books.  I'm thinking a museum of some kind for the rocks and minerals, but who knows?  I'm sure that many of them are worth something, but I don't know.  Mr. Z. knows way more about geology and paleontology than I do.)

    Parent
    I bet there are auctions (5.00 / 0) (#72)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:33:54 AM EST
    for this stuff, too, that collectors patronize.  Unless it's really, really rare, museums won't be interested.  OTOH, I'm thinking maybe a local high school science teacher might love to have the collection for teaching purposes, so the school could have its own mini-museum.

    Books, I can tell you, are totally hopeless.  The bottom has completely fallen out of the market with the advent of the Internet.  There are though, or used to be a few years ago, various charities that would come and take them away for free (otherwise you gotta pay to get rid of them!) and sell them for pennies on the Internet to raise money for their operations.

    Parent

    Thanks for the suggestions (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 09:41:04 AM EST
    I like the idea of local high schools- especially fro the fossils (oh wait, do they still teach evolution?) and maybe the local community colleges.  The local chapter of the AAUW still has yearly used book sales- I think many of the books will wind up with them.  If they can't pick up, we have a pick-up truck that can make a couple trips to them.

    Parent
    honestly (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by CST on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:52:38 PM EST
    this is one of the things about moving/renting that i actually appreciate.

    It forces me to scale back and get rid of things I don't need.

    We recently moved my grandmother out of her house and it was a 2 year endeavor.  She didn't just have all of her things and my grandfather's things, but also all of their parent's and aunt's and uncle's things.  One good decision that my mother's generation made was to split things up between members of the family of both generations (4 children and 4 adult grandchildren) so that no one ended up dealing with too much stuff.  Although to be honest, as nice as some of those china/crystal/silver items are I don't know what to do with most of them.

    You'll (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 03:37:35 PM EST
    use them one day. I could never figure out why I had to register china when I got married but after a few years I finally figured it out. Once in a while you're going to want to have a dinner party and have stuff that actually matches!

    Parent
    who said (none / 0) (#31)
    by CST on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:25:52 PM EST
    anything about matching :)

    I know I may want nice things some day, that's why I took it.  But really I think I need a house for it to be useful.

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:26:42 PM EST
    "Non-matching" is in right now.  :)

    Parent
    Yes, indeed! (none / 0) (#73)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:36:03 AM EST
    You can pick up really nice antique china individual pieces at good antiques places for very little money, and they make a wonderful and very elegant table.  Not to mention it's a great excuse to visit every antiques place for miles around to look for nice pieces.

    Parent
    As opposed to my plan, a few years (none / 0) (#94)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 11:26:49 AM EST
    ago, to acquire Ruska Arabia after the company discontinued it.  Ebay.  Very expensive.  One of my friends sd., have you been to Pottery Barn lately?  But, I love it.

    Parent
    Good Job Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 03:20:44 PM EST
    My sister and I learned another way of getting rid of stuff. We had a 'yard sale' at my Dad's retirement apartment complex. Put up a sign in the elevator that said 'Everything's free in 303' and spent a day sorting the few things we kept from the rest of the dishes, lamps, knick-knacks, tables, clothes, etc. We opened up the doors at 8 am and I am not kidding when I tell you everything was gone by 8:30. I mean, a nearly empty apartment. We had to tell people to come back the next day for the sofa and mattress cuz we had to sleep on them that night.

    They were happy, we were happy.

    It (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by lentinel on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:32:57 PM EST
    may be apocryphal, but I grew up hearing about a suburban block that allowed everyone to empty their attics for collection the next day.

    The next day came, but all the junk had disappeared from the street because people wound grabbing their neighbors junk and refilling their attics with it.

    Parent

    In the county (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Zorba on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:40:14 PM EST
    I live in, they used to have a twice a year collection day for anything that you couldn't put in the trash.  Old furniture and other large items.  It used to be a regular thing for people to go out the day before the collection to scavenge other people's stuff (especially in the "nicer" neighborhoods).  I never had a problem with that- I always figure that recycling something is better than stuff winding up in the landfill.  Of course, due to budget cut-backs, the county stopped this a couple of years ago.  

    Parent
    On the sidewalk (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:39:21 AM EST
    The Boston suburb I used to live in had a real sort of culture of leaving usable but unwanted stuff out on the curb a few days before trash pick-up for other people to take.  No matter what it was, it rarely lasted more than a few hours.

    A friend and I hauled an old bureau out to the curb one day, and by the time I got back in the house, a young soccer mom type and her little son were shoving it into the back of their SUV.

    Parent

    not just the burbs! (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by CST on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 09:44:20 AM EST
    on our last day of moving we finally decided we were not going to attempt to move our desks.  They were perfectly nice, although we got them for free when my mother's office moved.  But they were big hulking metal desks and just too heavy and cumbersome to lug up three flights of stairs on day 16 of moving.  So we finally decided we didn't really need desks and put them out on the curb.  Within 5 minutes we finally met our next door neighbors :)

    Parent
    I meant to add that the thought of (none / 0) (#13)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 03:30:53 PM EST
    my family having to go through all my stuff has been had a real impact on my shopping and hoarding habits. I have not bought anything purely decorative for a year.

    Also like you others have said I do a major purge periodically.

    It's hard, because I don't want to live like a monk for the rest of my life, but I hate the thought of my nice or someone picking up a doo-dad and thinking "what the heck did she want with this?"

    Parent

    During this housing and job (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 03:43:05 PM EST
    crisis I wonder if there is a way to funnel such things to those who lost everything?  Before we left the Springs, the first foreclosures were happening.  A family down the street who had a son that went to school with and hung around our daughter was thrown out of their house.  The parents were divorcing, the mom and kids were still in the house when they were evicted due to foreclosure.  All of their things were piled into the yard and she had no place to store them immediately and probably no immediate money on hand either.  By the time we found out what had happened half of their property had been taken by other members of the neighborhood.  My husband attempted to find out where she was to see if he could help her out but no dice.  Everything they owned just disappeared item by item, it was tragic to watch.

    Parent
    Look up a local women's shelter (5.00 / 0) (#18)
    by Towanda on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:00:29 PM EST
    or Habitat for Humanity or the like.  I've sent some appliances (after a late marriage merging homes) and the like, and I like knowing that the shelters can use the stuff or have clients trying to get started again who can do so, just as some of our local families helping to build their HforH homes can use some help to fill them with useful things of no further use to me.

    And for clothes, this is the time of year when a lot of kids will be cold without the mittens and hats and more that multiply in closets.  For women's clothes, see if there is a place near you like one in our town that helps those trying to get a job to get outfitted for job interviews and for the workplace until that first paycheck.  And, of course, these days they can't get jobs and need our help even more.

    <note to self, a horrible hoarder from my broke days of yore, to head to the closets. . . .>

    Parent

    We did take most of the clothes (none / 0) (#23)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:11:57 PM EST
    to a shelter. They were by far the most useful items in the apartment.

    Parent
    The women's shelter (none / 0) (#92)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 10:24:06 AM EST
    is a really good idea, Towanda.  Years ago, after the kids grew up, I called and asked if they wanted used toys (in good condition).  They did- kids come with their moms to the shelter.  They also took some used cell phones.  Apparently, even without a cell phone provider, cell phones will call 911, so they give them to the women who don't have cell phones, who might be in danger from their husbands/boyfriends.  Used clothing in good shape I take to the Salvation Army.  

    Parent
    That is so sad. Those poor kids, (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:14:03 PM EST
    having to go through that. Ugh.

    Parent
    That was the worst for me (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:54:40 PM EST
    Seeing the things that I knew belonged to my daughter's friend simply being taken.  And the baby stuff, the swing and changing table and the baby approved toys...that stuff isn't cheap.  I didn't see beds or a crib, hopefully they at least were able to keep those.

    Parent
    Occupy Wall Street finally broke through (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 03:45:55 PM EST
    the media silence.

    They really need a poltical platform (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:08:56 PM EST
    Maybe five concise things they are looking to get done.  And they need to voice these things in language everyday people connect with.  Humor helps a lot.  I hope they can manage to get something together, because if they become unable to voice exactly what they are after, they're are going to fade away, or just be rubbed out, I fear.

    A five point platform off the top of my head:

    *Real financial regulation (which goes to almost every issue, including illegal foreclosures, etc.  And I'd frame it with sports metaphors: would you play the Super Bowl without referees kind of thing?)
    *Tax on Financial Transactions (NO taxes on a hundred million dollar bet that pays off? Huh???)
    *Democratic control of the Fed Reserve (No more secret society bullsh*t ruling the economy)
    *Repeal Citizens United (I tried to shake the hand of a corporation, like I would a person, but the door handle didn't shake back)
    *Close loophole that allows Congress to legally engage in insider trading.


    Parent

    On their facebook page (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:56:17 PM EST
    Someone wrote up a bit about 10 things the 99% wants.  It was good

    Parent
    Perhaps Michael Moore can help them with this (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 05:00:01 PM EST
    We are all PO'd though.  I am.  If I were closer I would be there with them.  How horrific the rip off has been and it has been a rip off on so many levels, almost everyone I know is mad as hell at the Wall Street rip off/bailout for a variety of reasons.

    You are right though.  Cindy Sheehan distilled all of us from all walks to one plot of land with What Noble Cause?  They need something like that!

    Parent

    San Francisco financial district (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:35:47 PM EST
    Occupation starts here on Thursday.  Hopefully it'll spread.  In San Francisco anyway, it should be colorful.  I'll be there as often as I can -- which means whenever daddy duty doesn't call (can't call in sick for that unfortunately).

    And Cindy Sheehan, damn, what an example.

    Parent

    God's Blog, by Paul Simms (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:05:27 PM EST
    from Aug. New Yorker: link

    A friend just mailed this to me--snail mail.  

    Book hoarder here (5.00 / 0) (#40)
    by brodie on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:44:40 PM EST
    Overflowing the numerous bookshelves inside and filling about thirty boxes in the garage.  Years ago I figured, well at least I can always sell them to used book stores and at garage sales.

    Then a few years ago came the e-book reader technology and it seems most of these books aren't quite as valuable as I'd anticipated.

    Many will be donated to local public libraries.  Will keep the dozens dealing with US political assassinations going back to Lincoln -- those still have value.

    That will still leave probably five boxes worth of books on flying saucers, if anyone's innerested.

    Also consider (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by sj on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:51:38 PM EST
    Donating to jails and women's shelters and other public facilities. Sometimes the libraries get picky about what types of books they'll accept in donations anyway.

    Parent
    Haven't had a single donated book (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by brodie on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:50:28 PM EST
    rejected so far by the two local PLs, and that's probably 7-8 boxes of books.  But then nearly all mine donated are quality paper or non book club hardcover in good to excellent shape.  They even accept used videos which (the library folks tell me) end up in a local senior citizens facility.

    Besides the easy convenience of giving to PLs, I'm also just focused on trying to help them stay in business, given all the funding cutbacks in recent times.  We've already lost too many local bookstores and I want to do my small part to see that doesn't happen to our public libraries.  

    Parent

    Schools may want them also (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:04:33 AM EST
    I gave all of my art/etc books to a HS in Brooklyn. They came and picked them up and were thrilled. It was a new school and my books were the first in their library.

    Parent
    The utter disdain (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by NYShooter on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 05:50:37 PM EST
    The health "rip-off" titans show towards the politicians, and the public, is nothing short of breath taking. Even as the rallying cry out of Washington is "Austerity for All" the Blackmailers of Big Insurance & Big Pharma (while forcing pay and benefit cuts on their employees) seem to enjoy flipping the big bird publicly to its captured customers (victims.)

    So, what's a few million in campaign contributions (payoffs) for returns of a few Billion?

    What I've been doing (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:43:14 PM EST
    to keep myself from thinking about politics ;-).

    Link

    Lovely stuff (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:57:20 PM EST
    Really vibrant.  You have a very good eye, and the composition is great.  

    Here's three of my favorite photos of my son when he was much younger. (LINK)

    Parent

    Oh sweet! (none / 0) (#62)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 07:46:23 PM EST
    The sprinkler head ones are just priceless.  Adorable.

    Parent
    Those are really nice Teresa (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 10:58:08 PM EST
    I particularly like Rattlesnake Lake and A trail on Tiger Mountain. The naked tree limbs and corresponding shadows of the limbs give them a lacy or fractured appearance that is very interesting IMO.  

    Parent
    Thank you! (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 11:06:55 AM EST
    I am enjoying my new photo manipulation toy for sure.  I like the scenery pix too.  I really need to start thinking about isolating subjects like trees in my photography, just so they work well with the tool!

    Bright colors are really helping.... this fall....

    Parent

    My Mom passed away early August (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 08:20:50 PM EST
    fortunately she was not a hoarder of stuff. But she did save money and we are still finding little accounts here and there.

    Now I have a used Mercedes C220. It's ok, but I'd trade it for Mom any day of the week with no hesitation...

    Totally with you on both counts (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:56:32 AM EST
    My mother also kept cash stashed away in various places just in case.  She never got over the Depression, and Y2K scared the wits out of her. I found $500 in a purse stashed in the back of a closet, and many books with $10 and $20 bills slipped between the pages.  God knows how many of those ended up with the people who took the books away.

    Parent
    My sister's MIL did tthat with the books (none / 0) (#81)
    by sj on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 02:12:00 AM EST
    And I've heard of someone else's parent doing the same thing.  I wonder how the idea came into being.  I'm pretty sure it wasn't an original idea with her MIL.

    Parent
    When my uncle died, we found $1,500 (none / 0) (#91)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 10:07:25 AM EST
    in hundred dollar bills rolled up in a plastic cylinder that was buried in the freezer...my husband was cleaning out the fridge and very nearly just chucked it out with the rest of the stuff.  Since my uncle was a fisherman, and my husband is, too, he thought it might be bait, so he opened it out of curiosity.

    Once you make a discovery like that, it compels you to look through everything - and my uncle's "everything" was vast; I don't think he threw much of anything out after his wife died ten years before.  We decided that every week, when he went to the store, he bought the same things - whether he needed them or not: zip-loc bags, paper towels, laundry detergent, among other things - along with the plastic bags he carted them home in.  The bags came in handy when we packed up the stuff we did take, and neither my brother nor I had to buy a lot of the other stuff for a long time.  Both the upstairs fridge/freezer and the basement freezer, and cupboards, pantry and basement shelves, were stocked to the gills with food - most of which had years-old use-by dates.  The canned things that were more recent we donated to the local food pantry.

    There was a ton of shelving in the basement, and the number and variety of things like nails, nuts, bolts, zip-ties, washers, sandpaper, WD-40, tools of all kinds was hardware store-worthy.  He died in 2005, and needless to say, we have rarely found ourselves needing to buy any of this kind of stuff - and that was after we divvied it up among the family.

    It was a huge project, made all the more difficult by the fact that he lived 2+ hours away, so we spent a lot of weekends traveling the NJ turnpike.


    Parent

    Oh Edger, I'm so sorry (none / 0) (#82)
    by sj on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 02:13:19 AM EST
    I'm so very sorry for your loss. Peace to you.  

    Parent
    I found it very hard (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:46:49 AM EST
    because sorting through and clearing out my mother's stuff, and particularly my dad's books though he'd died 30 years before, was very painful because it was such a journey through their intellectual lives in particular-- the stuff that fascinated and intrigued them.  It brought them both vividly to life when they were still vigorous and fully engaged with life. I wept a lot.

    I'm going through the same thing (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 07:23:45 AM EST
    with my Mom. She moved from a  4-bedroom house to a 2 bedroom apartment a couple of years after my father died.. The apartment looks like a hoarder lives there. There is absolutely no room to move about. She just has too much stuff in there. Plus she's got a large storage unit. I've told her that if you have anything in storage for over six months, you obviously don't need it. Get rid of it! Even throwing the stuff out is better than paying that storage bill on a fixed income.

    I Just Went Through It With My Buddy... (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 09:59:41 AM EST
    ... and his pops is still alive.  He was diagnosed with brain cancer and was told he needs a sterile environment to return to.

    The problem is his dad is loaded, so the junk was peppered with valuable junk.  He also had mountains of porn and some sort of bunker like collection of guns and survival gear.

    We went through and pulled out the real valuable stuff, and what we wanted.  A service came in, three small dump trucks of garbage.  They listed the other stuff on Craigslist, the valuables were taken to another service that listed it on Ebay.

    He broke even after making all the repairs and modifications to the house to accommodate a handicap person.

    But unlike most people, my friend had to explain to his dad why all his stuff was gone.  It was awful and a position that my friend should not have been put in my a parent.

    So it's not just the hearse, you can't have that clutter should you become ill and need a sterile environment or end up in a home.  Don't burden your kids with C you don't know what to do with.

    Good for you! (none / 0) (#1)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:31:44 PM EST
    I'm kind of a "collector" of stuff. It's not big or grand, for the most part, but I am realizng that living with clutter does lead to a cluttered mind and really can be depressing, as I look around and realize that I don't have room for much of it, nor do I need it.  I have been trying very hard to slowly rid my life of this "stuff".  I realized I bought a lot of it to try and fill some emotional need and now realize that all I did was put myself deeply into debt, for which I am now paying (barely).

    However, I wish I had thought of the concept of the PODS company.....

    My in-laws had their formative years during .... (none / 0) (#2)
    by magster on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:36:46 PM EST
    ... the depression, and they didn't throw away anything. Now that my mom-n-law passed and my dad-in-law is talking about selling the homestead for an easier to manage, every visit to them entails attacking the piles of cr*# in every extra room. Our generation's battle with stuff might be a product of the times our parents grew up in.

    And, on a totally unrelated topic, Obama is going to be one block away from the best Vietnamese food in the city of Denver. If he has any brains, he will bring an appetite and find some time for take-out.

    My parents, too (none / 0) (#20)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:05:15 PM EST
    Depression-era hoarders.  After my mother died and I had to tackle clearing out her enormous house, I had to go through boxes and boxes and boxes of things like broken window shades, children's clothes we outgrew in the '50s and '60s, at least a dozen pairs of heavy old curtains, stained this, ripped that, broken the other, all carefully stashed away out of fear that they might be needed for something Some Day.

    Parent
    which Vietnamese restaurant? (none / 0) (#24)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:12:50 PM EST
    Vietnamese is my just about my favorite food type and so many of the restaurants have gone downhill in recent years. I'd love to find a new one.

    Parent
    I used to go to Te-Wa Terrace down off (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:15:50 PM EST
    Arapahoe and Yosemite, IIRC. Yum. Hope it is still there, and still good.

    Parent
    New Saigon (none / 0) (#28)
    by magster on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:17:34 PM EST
    and looking at their website now, they are more like a mile away from Lincoln HS than a block away (I would have swore Lincoln was right down the street).

    Parent
    8 marriages between my two parents (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:37:01 PM EST
    9 if you count living with someone for a few years.  Way too much crap saved up.  I still find junk from my second or third stepfathers when I'm at my mom's.  My dad's office, heck, looks like something out of Hoarders.

    Glad you got through it, J.  No melancholy it sounds like (though I can't presume), just a lot of friggin' STUFF.
     

    My father was married five times (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 03:29:24 PM EST
    I'm used to divorces leading to spartan existence :)  Or what my daughter gleefully calls minimalism.  It never bothered my father either, I guess they are both minimalists


    Parent
    Wish minimalism was either... (none / 0) (#17)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 03:47:32 PM EST
    ...of my parent's thing. Mom's getting a little better, but she can't even fit a bed in her guest room because it's so cluttered with stuff.  Dad, forget it, he grew up in horrid urban poverty in NYC during the Depression, he really likes to keep his junk close.  His biggest hoarde, not surprisingly, is food.  He says he was so hungry so much as a kid, he likes to keep all that food around, makes him feel more secure.  Now, if I could get him to trash the five thousand old copies of magazines...

    Parent
    All you really (none / 0) (#7)
    by someTV on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:48:42 PM EST
    need is a reality show to solve your hoarding problems...one weekend and those deep seated psychological problems evaporate...and yes, I'm working on one of those right now, Extreme Clutter, it's on OWN in case you find yourself needing a dose of Peter Walsh and his professional organizing techniques.

    I was just gonna say that despite my recent (none / 0) (#61)
    by brodie on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 07:09:04 PM EST
    de-cluttering efforts at home, I've lately picked up a habit of watching too many tv shows involving other people's junk.  I'm talking all the shows on The History Channel related to hoarding and finding old (valuable) junk ( American Pickers), fixing it up real nice (American Restoration), and selling it (Pawn Stars).

    So I think there's an obvious need for the kind of show you're undertaking.  Good luck.

    Parent

    I've got a huge dump (none / 0) (#103)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 05:11:03 PM EST
    in the woods not far from me dating from approximately 1890 to just before the first World war, that keeps me plenty busy with interesting junk, highly collectible junk, and stuff to make shadow boxes and such with..

    And of course, since even back then people threw out stuff that they'd hoarded over the years, once in awhile I find civil-war-era and pre-civil war era stuff: bisque doll heads, stoneware, tons of patent medicine bottles etc

    Nothing wrong with a little "hoarding" if you can recycle, turn over, or do something cool and creative with the hoard.

     

    Parent

    Huntsman is on the bubble (none / 0) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 02:50:00 PM EST
    of not being invited to the next CNN debate on October 18.

    Only reaching 2% in one of the last six national polls and averaging at 1.2%, Huntsman needs to reach the incredibly low threshold of 2% in one more national poll or he faces the likelihood of getting bumped to the sideline based on debate rules.

    I have twice hired American Haul-A-Way (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:02:26 PM EST
    for purposes of reaming out my garage of stuff that doesn't belong to me and I don't want.  Didn't know you could include shredding.  Thanks.  

    Cooking discovery: (none / 0) (#27)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:16:45 PM EST
    Clams can be prepared in the microwave. Make sure to cover so as to avoid a splatter/explosion.

    define (none / 0) (#30)
    by CST on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:24:24 PM EST
    prepared.

    To be more clear, are these clams already opened (ie cooked)?

    Just so you know, I find this blasphemous and I think you're crazy but I'm willing to hear more.

    Parent

    Oh no, there is no way (none / 0) (#35)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:35:05 PM EST
    I would attempt something as crazy as to REHEAT cooked clams. These bivalves were live, place in a circle around a bowl, and covered with punctured plastic wrap.

    Depending on the power of your microwave, they open in a couple of minutes. The biggest downside is that, like microwave popcorn, you can "toast" the one that opens first waiting for the laggards.

    I've also read that you can cook lobster the same way, but I'm not sure I would try it. In principle you should be able to microwave anything you can steam.

    Parent

    What if PETA reads this? (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:38:53 PM EST


    Parent
    You can tell them that I also enjoy bacon (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:40:07 PM EST
    They are welcome to discuss the problem with the rabbi who gives a damn.

    Parent
    Mmmmmm, bacon (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Zorba on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:55:01 PM EST
    Better yet, bacon with garlic and hot pepper flakes on grilled clams in the half shell.....just so not kosher.  ;-)

    Parent
    Yeah, but (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:42:44 AM EST
    You're not offing the pig in the microwave to get the bacon.  I confess to being a total hypocrite/coward about this stuff.  I eat some meat, but raising and killing even chickens would be utterly beyond me.  Present me with a live pig and I would very likely starve to death rather than kill it and eat it.

    Parent
    My uncle is still traumatized by the memory (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by magster on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:21:56 PM EST
    when he was a kid of my great grandma picking up a chicken by its neck, breaking the neck and beheading the chicken.

    Just one of those things that my great grandma considered part of the same ol' same ol' that has been lost in each passing generation.

    Parent

    Chickens (none / 0) (#110)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 10:52:17 AM EST
    I remember when I like 4 and my grandma cut off their heads and thought it was hilarious that headless chickens were chasing me and my brother around.

    To this day, I don't eat the bird.  Think about it, all the crazy stuff people say tastes like chicken, off the my list.  I hate the taste, and the funny thing is, every girl I have ever gone out with eventually end up in the no bird zone.

    That being said, I remember watching many cow slaughters.  A guy would come with a truck and a winch and dress it at the farm.  Lovez me some beef, but I can't eat anything that reminds me of the original, Tbones out, RibEye in.  I don't eat meat with a bone.

    We had pigs for a bit and I can't remember slaughtering them, but I am sure it was the same process.  I lovez me some bacon and holiday ham, but again, no bonez.

    This must be how republican can convince themselves that lowering taxes generates more income.  The mind is a funny, funny organ.

    Parent

    i use to spend my summers in VT (none / 0) (#112)
    by CST on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:24:19 AM EST
    where our neighbors had a dairy farm.  We would go over for milking, etc... Sometimes they would breed the cows.  My sisters and I used to love feeding the calfs, they were kept in a seperate pen and you had to teach them how to drink milk, and they were just so cute.  When the calf was a female, they would raise her and eventually start milking her, and keep her until old age.  When the calf was male...  They raised him until he was too big to keep and big enough to slaughter.  We would always cry whenever we had to say goodbye to one of the bulls we helped raise.

    I love beef.  And the beef from those cows were soo good.  I still eat beef.  I also dig for live clams, and fish, and I think I could hunt.  I like animals, but honestly, killing them for food doesn't bother me that much.  I am pretty comfortable with the circle of life.  I guess it helps that I assume I will pay it back when I become worm meat.  I try not to eat too much meat, and I try to eat meat that has been running around in fields, not locked up in a meat factory.  I don't think we need to torture animals.

    But although I've never done it, but I think I could kill a pig.

    Parent

    Everyone's different (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:28:38 PM EST
    I think you might have had a difficult time raising beef cattle, as we did.  We eat venison, too.  But not everyone can get quite so "close" to what they're going to eat.  One time, I bought some live lobsters in the grocery store.  (I didn't have then steam them- I don't mind doing it myself).  The clerk picked up the bag, and when the lobsters moved (I guess she thought they were already dead), she squealed and dropped the bag- I had to pick it up, run it over the scanner, and bag it myself.  She said "How can you kill them yourself?"  I asked her if she was a vegetarian.  She said no.  I asked her if she had ever stepped on a cockroach.  She said yes.  I said "Think of lobsters as large, sea-going cockroaches that taste good."  I wonder if she ever ate lobster again?   ;-)

    Parent
    I don't think I could kill the pig either (none / 0) (#84)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 07:38:03 AM EST
    But really, have you never swatted a fly? I think we're all a bit hypocritical about this stuff. Everyone just draws the line differently.

    Live clams are available in my supermarket, so it seems that at least enough people who live near me are willing to "slaughter" them at home to make it economic for them to be in stock (or perhaps they're just a loss leader).

    Parent

    The silence of the clams (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Rojas on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 08:27:10 PM EST


    Parent
    MicroWave (none / 0) (#111)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:08:51 AM EST
    IMO anything cooked in a microwave tastes off.  But then again it's rare if I eat leftovers.

    I guess I am missing the point here, a steamer would take maybe a couple extra minutes.  Anyone cooking lobster in a microwave needs clinical help.

    I get king crab legs for the holidays because they always put in on super sale.  They steam it for me while I shop, then when I get home, a minute to get it steaming hot, and I can do a couple legs at a time so as not to have cold crab.

    Parent

    In the meantime (none / 0) (#46)
    by NYShooter on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 05:06:47 PM EST
    NY Times
    U.S. Health Insurance Cost
    Rises Sharply, Study Finds
    by Reed Abelson

    "The cost of health insurance this year climbed more sharply than in previous years, outstripping any growth in wages and adding uncertainty about the pace of rising medical costs."

    What I found in my grandmother's storage unit... (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:56:24 PM EST
    I found a 1956 hospital bill for $18.

    That was the entire bill.

    Parent

    Did they give her speed, barbiturates, (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 07:01:53 PM EST
    or both? ;-)

    Parent
    Jon Walker has good post on (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 11:09:16 PM EST
    Health Care complete with charts.

    "Skin in the Game" Fails As a Health Care Cost Control Idea

    Charts like these should put to death the zombie myth that the way to control America's incredible health care cost growth is to just give individuals more "skin in the game." The idea that making Americans pay more out of pocket for their health care will reduce overall health care spending is false, and pursing it will be a complete failure. The idea is based on a childish, simplistic belief that a "free market" functions well in health care and health insurance; it has no basis is reality.  But sadly this notion is still championed by free market economists, including prominent advisers to President Obama.

    As the study and its graphs show, we have been dramatically increasing the amount of "skin" individuals have in the game for years, yet our health care costs continue to grow rapidly. Our health care costs also rise faster than those in the rest of the first world even though we tend to pay far more out of pocket. There is no reason to believe further cost shifting to consumers/patients in the future will end up controlling our out of control health care costs.

    Probably won't surprise many here that the so called "cost saving" ideas from the exchanges to the excise tax in the health insurance legislation which were advertised as a way to reduce health care costs by farther increasing skin in the game won't work.

    Parent

    This whole concept (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:50:41 AM EST
    literally makes my stomach heave.  It's only propagated by people whose health care costs are either totally covered by somebody else or whose income is so high that insurance premiums are utterly insignificant to them.

    Parent
    Interesting post, but what about providers? (none / 0) (#86)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 08:15:45 AM EST
    the writer should've also talked about the differences in cost controls on service providers in the US vs. other countries w/lower costs.  Point being, both skin in the game and cost controls are needed.  These posts never seem to talk about the supply side of the equation.  They end up being another post bashing either the law or insurers.

    Parent
    Hmm (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 11:47:47 AM EST
    Other countries who do not require their citizens to have skin (no deductibles, no co-pays) in the game have much, much lower health care costs. Controlling provider costs is made harder when insurance companies like the one you work for all negotiate different provider rates in order to capture a bigger market share or eliminate competition.  

    Parent
    Aww c'mon (none / 0) (#99)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 01:14:51 PM EST
    that was a totally unnecessary cheapshot :-)

    Seems your argument goes against the theme oft repeated here that insurers are only about the profits.  Insurers want to pay doctors more?  Really?

    As opposed to maybe not and passing those savings on to you as a customer and using that to remain more competitive?

    Here's the reality: hospitals and doctors are merging; and have been for some time.  Side effect is this increases their negotiating power w/insurers.  That, and the socio-economics of the provider's operating area impact rates more than anything.

    Further, what are you really suggesting?  That insurers collude to pay doctor's and hospitals less?  Wouldn't that be.....illegal?  Without laws dictating how much insurers pay for a service, how should rate negotiations be handled?

    Parent

    Not a cheap shot at all (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 04:45:42 PM EST
    We were discussing people who have skin in the game. People who receive their income from the insurance industry definitely have skin in the game. That is why people who have a financial interests make disclosures.

    If health insurance companies were paying the lowest possible provider rates, they would be paying Medicaid rates.  

    During the discussion of the health insurance legislation various people spoke of the ways large health insurance companies squeeze out smaller players.

    Once again: Controlling provider costs is made harder when various insurance companies all negotiate different provider rates. That does not happen in single payer systems.

    Parent

    No, you were discussing skin in the game (none / 0) (#104)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 05:55:16 PM EST
    I was discussing the need for cost controls in addition to.  You incorrectly believe insurers are not just as interested in cost controls and the only way we can have them is through single-payer.  You also seem to believe providers will simply accept low reimbursement rates w/o some sort of requirement, i.e. "...paying Medicaid rates."

    I also remember during the debates the cost controls on Medicare rates were taken out of the final legislation, primarly because of.....?  

    I know it fits the narrative to continuously blame the insurers, but objective analysis of all the issues involved is what's needed.

    Parent

    Funny how the governments of (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 06:35:58 PM EST
    numerous other countries set standard provider rates and maintain health care systems that provide lower costs and better outcomes.

    BTW, that was the whole point which you chose to ignore. You are not even making sense at the moment but actually confirming my point (in your statement highlighted below) at the same time you are arguing against it. A single payer system does impose the requirement of accepting the government determined rates just like it does for Medicaid.  

    You also seem to believe providers will simply accept low reimbursement rates w/o some sort of requirement, i.e. "...paying Medicaid rates."


    Parent
    Single payer imposes no requirements (none / 0) (#106)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 07:25:59 PM EST
    other than that there be a single entity to process claims, ease of administration....but you knew that.  As far as whether providers in the U.S. would be as altruistic and accepting of reduced payments like other countries, well, you keep on believing that.  I give you...

    the AMA, slides 6&7

    and this:

    The American Hospital Association and the American Medical Association expressed concern about the proposed Medicare expansion. They told Congress that Medicare payments were often inadequate to cover their costs.

    I don't make sense because you don't want me to make sense.  That's fine, we can continue to argue from different sides of the spectrum, agree to disagree.

    Parent

    Most widely used single payer (none / 0) (#107)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 07:57:48 PM EST
    system in the U.S. is Medicare. The government set the provider rates. That is why we have "Medicare rates." The government also sets the provider rates for Medicaid. That is why we have "Medicaid rates." But you knew that because you have been referring to these set rates from the beginning of this discussion.

    Wow, did The American Hospital Association and the American Medical Association tell Congress that they would be hurt by cuts to their profit margins.

    All kind of claims are made when institutions are asked to take less money. They IMO fall into the same category as these claims:

    Defense cuts could lead to military draft (House Armed Services chairman)

    Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld warned that it will only be a matter of time before America endures another terrorist attack if Congress ends up blaming the defense budget for this country's red ink woes.

     

    Parent

    I have (none / 0) (#49)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:08:28 PM EST
    one big reason for that (at least my insurance company tells me so)....

    ....the "affordable" care act....my insurance rates went up and my coverage went down all due to measures they've had to implement already.

    Parent

    They're lying to you (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:48:40 AM EST
    Flat-out.  They're lying.  What they're doing is taking advantage of the time lapse before the ACA takes effect to jack up their prices as high as possible before the regulations take effect.

    Parent
    Yep - what was their excuse for the (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 08:17:03 AM EST
    15%+ increases before Obama was even elected?

    Parent
    Don't know (none / 0) (#88)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 08:53:47 AM EST
    but your state insurance comissioner might.

    Rates don't just go up w/o a documented reason.

    Parent

    vicndabx: Thanks (none / 0) (#96)
    by christinep on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:10:50 PM EST
    Sometimes it helps us all to remember what has FACTUALLY happened ACTION BY ACTION. (Also: The capitalization here reflects my own frustration at the longstanding ideological-type statements from both "sides" of the ACA.) It is good to see from time to time a recap of the good, decent, and all-together positive changes--the very real changes in very real peoples' lives--that have occurred per the ACA.  

    As for the earlier rise in rates, your reference to the state insurance commission(s) actions is good as well. IMO, I believe that an inevitable report on prelim & anticipatory profit recoup may be the obvious culprit (similar to the oil company profit-taking practices.) Just a guess, of course.

    Parent

    Curious (none / 0) (#85)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 07:50:43 AM EST
    What part do you believe they're lying about?  ACA is already in effect for insurers.  Regence (I believe the poster gets her insurance from them) has a timeline up on their website that states among other things:

    Already in effect, w/many provisions already started 3rd qtr 2010:

    Dependent coverage extended to age 26
    Restrictions on rescissions
    No pre-existing condition exclusion for children
    Preventive services with no cost-sharing
    No lifetime limits and restricted annual limits
    Medical loss ratio reporting
    Patient protections
    Funding for community health centers
    Medical loss ratio rebates
    Increased penalty for non-medical health savings account withdrawals
    Medicare Advantage changes
     - 2010 payments frozen for 2011
     - Authority to deny Plan bids (MA/PDP)
     - Limits on out of pocket costs
     - Provisions for 50% discount on brand-name drugs in the Medicare Part D coverage gap

    Parent

    healthcare costs go up again (none / 0) (#47)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 05:22:57 PM EST
    Why is that business does not say "we are not hiring because of all the uncertainty with what is going to happen with healthcare costs"

    their taxes have not gone up since the big give away from W, yet every year Healthcare has.  the government should learn something from the HC industry.  Every year your bill will go up 9%.

    See, no more uncertainty and they can hire away.

    Stephen King doing.... (none / 0) (#50)
    by magster on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:15:35 PM EST
    ... a sequel to The Shining. It involves vampires though, hopefully not of the brooding teen variety.

    That is one thing about King... (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by magster on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 09:11:49 PM EST
    ...some of his books really get off to a strong conventional start and then get wacked out and kind of ruined when the supernatural starts (Insomnia and Hearts of Atlantis) and the books he keeps straight are excellent (Misery, Delores Claiborne).

    Then agains some of his scary books are great, too. Dude has an amazing imagination.

    Parent

    Sometime pick up (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:53:29 AM EST
    one of those books and pay attention to the writing instead of the plot.  "Christine," for example.

    King has an ability to paint a vivid scene and character portrait in only a few sentences that's near genius.  It's too bad it's mostly in service of those weirdo horror plots.  (His earlier stuff is best, IMO.)

    Parent

    Probably not a bunch of brooding teens (none / 0) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:30:02 PM EST
    Maybe only one dispatching the children on her babysitting list :)  The latest movie 'Let Me In' is super cool if you like horror with your vampires.

    Parent
    Maybe it was vampires... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 06:42:19 PM EST
    ...who were responsible for all that blood gushing down the hallway.

    Parent
    Poe took it as (none / 0) (#100)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 02:18:27 PM EST
    far as it could be taken 150+ years ago.

    What more was there to say after that? Oh, now we have radioactivity and Tea Party zombies. Same as it ever was..

    Parent

    from 1914 (none / 0) (#101)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 02:25:58 PM EST
    to 1945 (in particular), human history outpaced any scare story, or surrealist excess.

    Parent
    Someone forgot to tell the (none / 0) (#67)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 09:15:10 PM EST
    Republican voters. The latest poll out since the last debate has him with a 7 point edge that slightly tops his RCP avg of a 6.2 point margin over the last six polls.

    Perry has now led in 17 straight polls against the rest of the GOP field.

    Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread | 109 comments (109 topical)

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