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Saturday Open Thread

I think it's going to be a slow-news weekend. And the weather here is too nice to stay indoors. But it's the start of Labor Day weekend, so we need some appropriate music. Here's Bon Jovi with "Work for the Working Man." (Nice touch that the video also features Jack Bauer of "24" since we're on the precipe of the 10 year anniversary of 9/11.)

For those of you online, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Obama in action. (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by MO Blue on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 12:25:38 PM EST
    Ozone proof that Obama can take action when he choses to do get something done to show just how business friendly he can be.

    Science indicated that there needed to be tighter particulate control, and the Bush administration issued new guidelines. Environmental groups sued. Time passed. Once elected, Obama told the groups to withdraw the suits, the administration would put in tighter standards.

    Now, with the endorsement of Boehner, Cantor, the US Chamber of Commerce and the whole right wing contingent, Obama decided to not even implement the Bush standards, much less more stringent standards.

    To say it's appalling would be meaningless. Numb we've all become to being stabbed by the President. And this isn't an issue of getting something out of Congress - this was a 100% Executive Branch screwing. (t/l sidebar)




    Don't worry (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 12:33:18 PM EST
    He will reinstate the rules just as soon as he is re-elected and no longer have to worry about the economy.

    Don't believe me?

    Read this.

    Parent

    heh - has to (none / 0) (#5)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 12:33:54 PM EST
    You do realize that (none / 0) (#21)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:41:35 PM EST
    is a 2-1/2 year old article?

    Parent
    You do realize that (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 04:06:56 PM EST
    the article is about Obama re-instating rules that the Demos and Repubs had just dumped in the summer/fall of 2008 that had popped the oil bubble and led to $1.81 gasoline on the day Obama was sworn in.

    Proof positive that he cares more about rules than he does people.

    So you can be assured that of he is re-elected he will turn the EPA loose no matter how bad it hurts people and the economy.

    Parent

    Funny (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 04:51:48 PM EST
    "...the article is about Obama re-instating rules that the Demos and Repubs had just dumped in the summer/fall of 2008 that had popped the oil bubble and led to $1.81 gasoline on the day Obama was sworn in."

    Of course, those with actual knowledge and expertise in oil prices deny this silly argument (even those working for the energy companies and those that support lifting the moratorium), and there's not a single bit of evidence that supports it.


    Nonsense! Panic drove oil to that peak in 2008, but it was primarily the recession that drove it back down so far. Furthermore, U.S. domestic supply and demand are factors in world price, but usually not as significant as a variety of others.

    Most energy economists applauded President Bush's action in regard to offshore drilling, but suggesting that this "caused" the precipitous drop in global oil prices is akin to the rooster's boast that his crowing brought the sun up.

    - Joseph M. Dukert, senior associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, independent energy analyst, and former president of the U.S. Association for Energy Economics.

    "I would support a lifting of the Congressional moratorium and increased offshore drilling, so I am not coming at Mr. Bolling's claim as an opponent. However, it's important to get the arguments right, and attributing much of if not the entire fall in the price of oil to President Bush's lifting of the offshore drilling moratorium is not correct in my view."
    - Michael Canes, Energy Economist, Senior Research Fellow at the Logistics Management Institute and former Chief Economist of the American Petroleum Institute - proponent of lifting the moratorium.

    Then there's a whole lot of articles with experts citing the real reason for the drop in energy prices - lower demand caused by the worldwide recession.  But Eric Boehlert, Fox and the wingers love this fairy tale.

    Parent

    Snark if you wish (none / 0) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 09:09:41 PM EST
    The facts speak.

    Parent
    Indeed they do (none / 0) (#72)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 10:01:55 PM EST
    If only you would try using them once-in-a-while ...

    Parent
    As I noted (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 11:06:00 PM EST
    The facts speak for themselves. Your snarky denial changes nothing.

    1. Congress and the President acted in a bipartisan manner and removed the "rules."

    2. Gasoline prices dropped to $1.81

    3. Obama reinstated the rules.

    4. Gasoline has climbed back to $4.00 plus before falling to around $3.75.

    Cause and effect? Yes. Amply demonstrated.

    Parent
    "Amptly"?!? Not even SLIGHTLY (none / 0) (#91)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 07:57:41 AM EST
    As Michael Caines (proponent of lifting the moratorium and former Chief economist at the American Petroleum Institute) noted:

    "Coincidence is not causation"

    Can you name a single study which supports your silly idea?  A single expert?

    Nope ... didn't think so.

    Parent

    Read (none / 0) (#96)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 08:44:44 AM EST
    Your sources reference Bush.

    You should read the link:


    Facing gas prices near $4 a gallon and a pivotal national election, congressional Democrats allowed a ban on offshore drilling to lapse in September.

    The "energy" people are invested in high prices obtained with minimum effort. It is no surprise that they claim that we can't lower prices by drilling more or that the bipartisan effort to remove the regulations had nothing to do with the collapse of oil prices. People believe in what they want and experts often say what they believe the audience wants to hear.

    The sad thing is this.

    A national policy to drill more and reduce regulations would cost nothing to implement yet you, and people like you, put policy above efforts to improve the economy and improve people's lives.

    This is doubly sad when it is realized that high gasoline prices directly affect the middle and lower classes much more than it does the upper.

    At one time the Democrats were supposedly the party of the working man. This is no longer true.

    The term, "Limousine Liberal" should be your moniker.

    Now, I'm done. Trying to have a debate with you is useless.

    Parent

    Of COURSE they agreed, Jim (none / 0) (#101)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 09:37:02 AM EST
    They were going in to a major election season and wanted to appear to be doing something about high gas prices.  It was pure, political posturing, and not a single person with any knowledge or expertise on the issue of gas prices supports your silly claims ... which is precisely why you can't back them up with a single study or expert opinion.  Not a single expert (even the bought/paid-for winger suspects) won't climb out on that flimsy limb.

    But it's fun to watch you twist in the wind ... ;-)

    BTW - Your new-found concern for the working/lower class citizens is heartwarming.

    No, ...

    ... really.

    Parent

    Read (none / 0) (#97)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 08:44:44 AM EST
    Your sources reference Bush.

    You should read the link:


    Facing gas prices near $4 a gallon and a pivotal national election, congressional Democrats allowed a ban on offshore drilling to lapse in September.

    The "energy" people are invested in high prices obtained with minimum effort. It is no surprise that they claim that we can't lower prices by drilling more or that the bipartisan effort to remove the regulations had nothing to do with the collapse of oil prices. People believe in what they want and experts often say what they believe the audience wants to hear.

    The sad thing is this.

    A national policy to drill more and reduce regulations would cost nothing to implement yet you, and people like you, put policy above efforts to improve the economy and improve people's lives.

    This is doubly sad when it is realized that high gasoline prices directly affect the middle and lower classes much more than it does the upper.

    At one time the Democrats were supposedly the party of the working man. This is no longer true.

    The term, "Limousine Liberal" should be your moniker.

    Now, I'm done. Trying to have a debate with you is useless.

    Parent

    BTW, Jim ... as I stated previously ... (none / 0) (#103)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 09:42:12 AM EST
    It's not a "debate".  Maybe call your old assistant, and have her look up the definition for you?

    You really shouldn't overstate the significance of your silly, unsupported opinions.

    Parent

    I see that (none / 0) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 12:27:23 PM EST
    you again don't debate, just snark and dissemble.

    You know, I make no claim beyond believing in the innate intelligence of the American people. At one time in my previous life I carried a business card that had the word "engineer" on it. Now I freely admit that I couldn't "engineer" anything in the new technology but the basics remain. Observation reveals action which is cause and the effect follows.

    In the ancient world people didn't understand why striking a flint a certain way would produce a spark and that could be used to start a fire in dry grass and wood shavings. They had no idea as to exactly how a woman became pregnant yet they knew the cause.

    But beyond that, why do you, and others like you, resist "trying?" Our economy is in a dreadful shape. Our energy "policy" has pushed corn, a human food source, as a source of alcohol for a gasoline extender at the expense of millions of people in third world. And, at the same time, our own food prices are spiraling upward and out of control. Corn is an essential part of hundreds of good goods. Gasoline is used to plant, cultivate, harvest, and transport that food.

    Yet instead of saying, "Yeah. Let's try drilling every possible place to produce more...." You demand we produce less. You cry that the environment will remain at the 1997 level.....

    Do you think that the people who can't heat their home, buy food and medicine care??  Do you think it ethical to endorse programs that cause that?

    I think that for you everything is politics. You care nothing for the greater good and your intent is to do what is necessary to have and hold power.

    Parent

    How can we "debate", Jim? (none / 0) (#110)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 03:44:11 PM EST
    You make some baseless, winger claim - I counter with facts and evidence from people who actually understand what they're talking about to support my argument - then you make some "Shadow" comment and follow with straw arguments and try to put words in my mouth.

    That's not a "debate".

    Parent

    Quit dodging (none / 0) (#111)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 03:54:18 PM EST
    I would think anyone claiming to be a liberal would be willing to try anything that would drop oil prices and improve the economy.

    That you aren't speaks volumes about you.

    And that is a fact.

    ;-)

    Parent

    That's just silly (none / 0) (#113)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 04:04:45 PM EST
    I'm also not willing to try self-flagellation or praying to the Economic Gods ...

    ... and that does speak volumes about me.

    BTW - Still not a single study or expert to support your silly ideas?

    Guess that says something about you and the validity of your claims.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Study? (none / 0) (#117)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 05:40:50 PM EST
    You are great on studies.

    How about trying to actually do something?

    It would cost nothing... though it might bother some polar bears...

    Can't be putting people in front of polar bears, eh?

    Limousine Liberal describes you perfectly.

    Parent

    Straw, straw, straw ... (none / 0) (#118)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 09:09:21 PM EST
    Hope you buy in bulk.

    BTW - The studies and experts I were referring to had to do with your silly claim that lifting the moratorium caused the drop in oil prices in 2008.  Nothing to do with the future, although there are also plenty of studies showing that "Drill, Baby, Drill!" would have virtually no impact on the price of oil.

    BBTW - Tell the fishermen and tourism businesses of the Gulf Coast that it would "cost nothing ... though it might bother some polar bears."

    They know differently.

    Parent

    And yet when (none / 0) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 10:36:32 PM EST
    Bush issued his EO in 2008 and the Demos followed and the price of oil fell...Obama reversed it and the price of oil has increased.

    Action. Cause. Effect.

    Try it sometimes instead of using excuses to abuse the working class.

    You are a liberal, aren't you?

    ;-)

    Parent

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Jim (none / 0) (#122)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 08:36:30 AM EST
    Just because you drink a home brew for your cold doesn't mean it made your cold go away.  Just because the rooster crows at dawn doesn't mean he makes the sun rise every morning.

    There's a reason you can't find a single study or expert to climb out on that lonely limb with you, and it's obvious.

    Parent

    You can't avoid (none / 0) (#123)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 10:40:58 AM EST
    several things so you just keep harping away as if repetition makes it true. These will not go away.

    1. Oil prices fell drastically when the bipartisan efforts in summer/fall 2008 showed that drilling sites would be opened. This was a clear sign to the speculators that there was no shortage and there would be no shortage.

    2. Oil prices started to rise when Obama re-instated the rules a few days after he was sworn in. Gasoline prices have increased from $1.81 to a high of around $4.50 before falling back to around $3.65.

    The economy has remained in collapse. Oil prices have been a large part of the reason why.

    My point is that I would use everything I had to lower gasoline prices because they are a huge tax on the middle class and working poor.

    Your opposition proves that you are a Limousine Liberal.

    Parent

    No, Jim (none / 0) (#124)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 02:50:04 PM EST
    Oil prices fell drastically when the world economy tanked in the Summer/Fall of 2008.  All of the experts agree this is the reason oil prices fell, which is why you can't provide evidence of a single expert or study to support your silly theory.  They also know that "Drill, baby drill!" is a winger fantasy that would have no impact on the price of gas.  

    "Using everything you have" doesn't mean you use things that will, at best, have no effect, and at worst, make things worse.  It's like a unqualified quack promising to heal people with snake oil.

    Your refusal to acknowledge the obvious while claiming to be concerned for the middle class and working poor proves you are a Concocting Conservative.

    Parent

    So, "caring about people" (none / 0) (#46)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 06:11:17 PM EST
    means caring about Oil Companies?

    And pollution is good for the economy, no?

    Parent

    Do you believe that the oil executives (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 09:11:20 PM EST
    really care if their utility bills triple???

    Parent
    dday has a good post (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by MO Blue on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 01:50:59 PM EST
    on how much worse this is when you learn the whole story.

    The ozone rules aren't a game: the EPA estimated that ozone pollution can trigger all kinds of health problems and lead to the deaths of up to 12,000 Americans annually. The reason the regulation seems so expensive is that you're talking about complying up from 1997 rules. Of course fixing a 14-year gap will be expensive. It will only get more expensive. And people will die as a result of inaction.
    ...
    UPDATE: The American Lung Association will reopen their lawsuit against the government over the ozone standards. Of course, this comes two years too late for those suffering and dying from heightened smog levels.


    Parent
    12,000 deaths annually (none / 0) (#61)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 08:41:13 PM EST
    may bother the afflicted but it is chump change in a population of 300,000,000.

    Parent
    Very, very disappointing. (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 01:01:57 PM EST
    I'm expecting to know my departure (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by observed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 12:25:52 PM EST
    date by the middle of next week.
    I found out that the remaining paperwork (apostilles) can be mailed after I leave.
    So in 10 days or so,I will be moving 6,000 miles.

    WOW (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by MO Blue on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 12:34:32 PM EST
    Talk about change. Hope this works out great for you.

    Parent
    Obviously I'm nervous, but (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by observed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 12:50:00 PM EST
    the job terms are very good.
    My professional acquaintances all seem to think this sounds like a great job.
    Central Asia may seem like the middle of nowhere,but from Astana, conferences in Asia and Europe will be equally close, comparable to the distance from New York to Paris.

    If you haven't done so yet, google "astana architecture" to see some amazing photos of new building over there.


    Parent

    I looked at (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 12:57:15 PM EST
    "astana architecture" a while back when you mentioned it and it is indeed amazing.

    A great job is nothing to sneeze at and new adventures are often wonderful for those who have the ability to pursue them.

    Parent

    Expecting a full report on the opera house. (5.00 / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 01:02:31 PM EST
    I'm not s sports fan, but I'd like to (none / 0) (#13)
    by observed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 01:49:31 PM EST
    go to some event in the stadium that looks like a giant spaceship.

    Parent
    Good Luck (none / 0) (#15)
    by Politalkix on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 01:55:56 PM EST
    If you limit yourself to enjoying "astana architecture" and your work, things will probably turn out well for you. Once you are there, how candid are you going to be about the President and government of Kazakhistan in your posts?
    I have a feeling that you will appreciate America better once you are there but time will tell. I will read your posts with interest.

    Parent
    Well, I am leaving a country which I know to (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by observed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:01:23 PM EST
    be fascist, and which recognizes almost no individual privacy rights.
    A country which has tortured and murdered hundreds of prisoners in the last 10 years.
    If I speak out about those things, what happens?
    Exactly nothing, because only an idiot can believe that we have a representative government anymore.
    But thank you for your concern.


    Parent
    I think it's an excellent opportunity, (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 03:57:58 PM EST
    observed... I'm still looking at next year in Colombia. We'll have to keep in touch!

    Parent
    Thanks! (none / 0) (#33)
    by observed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 04:02:09 PM EST
    I used to say that July 20,1969 was the most exciting day of my life. Maybe not anymore.

    While this is purely individualy excitement for me, it's pretty wild!!

    Parent

    July 20, 1969 (none / 0) (#37)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 04:19:49 PM EST
    still ought to rank in the pantheon of great days, though!  

    Parent
    Greatest WWII day, IMO. (none / 0) (#39)
    by observed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 04:45:07 PM EST
    lol,I meant post WWII, and of course (none / 0) (#40)
    by observed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 04:45:38 PM EST
    pre-Ipod.

    Parent
    Excellent news, observed. (5.00 / 0) (#43)
    by caseyOR on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 05:47:20 PM EST
    This is such an opportunity. I am so happy for you.

    I await your posts from abroad. I know so little about that part of the world, I am sorry to say.  

    Don't forget us here at TL. We'll be wanting to hear everything. :-)

    Parent

    Thanks. (none / 0) (#45)
    by observed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 05:49:10 PM EST
    I feel very lucky to get this job,and I hope to do my small part to  help put this school on the map!


    Parent
    Your America is no. 1 (5.00 / 0) (#125)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 06, 2011 at 08:07:07 AM EST
    post is tired. My sister moved to Nanjing, China over 5 years ago with no regrets or feelings of "I miss the great America." She has a better standard living, affordable health care with no insurance and no need to own a car. She doesn't miss Houston one bit. I envy her.

    Observed hit the nail on the head in his characterization of the demise of the US. We are becoming an oligarchy with no power left to the masses or certainly not the working class. Soon, we'll have the rich, the poor and not quite so poor (after all they have "refrigerators"). There will be no US middle class, while China, India and others have burgeoning middle class.

    Good luck Observed.

    Parent

    What is 6000 miles from where you are?: (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 12:08:12 AM EST
    I remember well making those moves in my earlier years. I loved my experiences in the middle east, australia and new guinea, and would have enjoyed any assignment given elsewhere.

    Enjoy.


    Parent

    thanks! (none / 0) (#94)
    by observed on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 08:39:39 AM EST
    Astana, the capital of Kazakhstan. (none / 0) (#95)
    by observed on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 08:40:07 AM EST
    A friend (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:22:41 PM EST
    of mine who is an independent keeps telling me she's sure that Obama isn't going to run for reelection. I don't know why she keeps saying this. I told her I wish that he wouldn't run because if he runs, there is a distinct possibilty that the country could fall under radical fundamentalism with someone like Perry.

    That's your new "politics of fear" (5.00 / 0) (#38)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 04:24:41 PM EST
    as played by the Democrats this time.

    They're all the same.  To h*ll with them all.

    Parent

    "In Latest Concession to GOP, Obama .... (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:51:38 PM EST
    Endorses Bachmann 2012"

    A friend had this as a FB status update today.  Just had to share it here.

    I heard the president (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 03:09:59 PM EST
    was relaxing this Labor Day Weekend, planning to watch "The Undefeated" the Mama Grizzly documentary and then just, kick off his shoes, grab an apple, and finish "In My Time", by papa grizzly.  The only work on the schedule was to practice for upcoming presidential debates figuring out how and when to weave in that good line, "I'm paying for this microphone."

    Parent
    I don't think he reads ... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 03:19:25 PM EST
    or watches anything that isn't about him.  So he'd likely watch "Undefeated" with fast-forward button, jumping to sections mentioning him, ignoring the rest.

    Parent
    On Wisconsin . . . and 2012 (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:53:10 PM EST
    Tom Hayden writes in the Nation about Wisconsin -- quoting some of my old friends there and young ones about continuing protests.  

    If this were New York City, the New York Times might be comparing the uprising to Cairo on its front page every day. But this is Wisconsin, celebrated as the heartland by the coastal elites, but in reality marginalized in the national political culture. . . .

    This is a homegrown revolution, not one led or fed by outside forces or agitators in the grip of ideology. International unions and Democratic Party strategists based in Washington, DC, didn't start the fight, but were drawn into it by their rank and file and thousands of independent citizens across the state. . . .

    Obama had been a regular visitor to Wisconsin until the fight over collective bargaining broke out in February. In a national television interview, he criticized the attack on labor rights, but he has been mostly silent while the drama unfolded. Many speculate that Obama and his advisers are concerned that too close an association with militant labor demonstrations will lose middle-class votes in several swing states. In addition, the president's team may have believed that class war in Wisconsin was inconsistent with his negotiations to avoid default by achieving a budget deal with the likes of Wisconsin Representative Paul Ryan.

    For Democrats in Wisconsin, however, the sense of abandonment by the White House has been real, and could erode Obama's public support in 2012. Even on his Midwest listening tour in August, Obama's bus rolled right past the Wisconsin border.

    "If Obama had come here in February," says Paul Soglin, "there would have been 150,000 people in ten-degree weather." Among many labor leaders, John Matthews, the longtime director of the Wisconsin teachers' union who pushed the original February walkouts, agrees with the need for Obama to step into the battle.

    As long as Obama appears to be disengaged, his support is waning in Wisconsin. . . .

    This week will tell -- this week, when the protests, despite continuing assaults and arrests, hit their 150th day.  That's 150 days that Obama still can't find those comfortable shoes.

    I would like to thank everyone (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by loveed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 06:28:58 PM EST
     My mom passed away this morning.All of you helped me through it. I started writing here when my mom got sick. Reading and writing on this site got me through some hard times.
     I loved my mom more than you will ever know. She taught me to be strong. And it was nothing I couldn't overcome.
     It was like pulling teeth to convince my older sibling to get hospice involved. She never wanted to go back to the hospital. She wanted die in her own home and bed. No extra measure. She felt she had lived a long wonderful life(she was 91yrs old).
     Hospice came yesterday. They was wonderful with my brothers. This is the best run organization in health care. They explained everything about the process of death.
     Last night was the first night I slept like a baby. Her final wish was accomplished. I believe this is what kept her hanging on.
     This morning when I went to take care of her before work. She was non-responsive.But when I kissed her and told her I loved her,she puckered her lips and just kept kissing me. I should have known she was kissing me goodbye.
     My brother whom I was so worried about, handle it well. Her breathing was shallow, he pick her up and held her. She died in his arms.
     It funny I miss her already, but I have a deep feeling of peace. Me and my mom spent so much time together these last 5 months. We talked about everything. We laugh and cried together. We slept together.And we made peace together.
     I stopped grieving for her in April,and lived life with her until today.
     I did not realize today is my 19th wedding anniversary. My daughter reminded me.

    Loss of a loved one is difficult (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 07:37:10 PM EST
    at any age. Most of us do not think of our parents as being old, just getting older.  Your decision to engage Hospice was the right one and your siblings will, if they have not already, soon agree.  Indeed, today should be thought of as  a special day for you --one that  marks your love for spouse and mother.

    Parent
    My thoughts are with you (none / 0) (#49)
    by Dadler on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 06:37:47 PM EST
    Your post was very moving.  You mother sounds like she was quite a woman.  The sense of peace you have found is profound.  All the best to you and your family.  

    Parent
    I'm so very sorry, loveed (none / 0) (#51)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 06:53:01 PM EST
    May your mother rest in peace.  You have my deepest sympathies.

    Parent
    I am sorry for your loss, loveed. (none / 0) (#55)
    by caseyOR on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 08:09:01 PM EST
    It was so good of you to make sure your mother's wishes were followed at the end. That can be so hard when siblings aren't all  on board.

    Parent
    bless you, loveed (none / 0) (#57)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 08:13:37 PM EST
    & your mom

    i had the same experience with my mom in January - family didn't see the need for hospice, thought she would "get better"

    i finally got hospice in there on a Friday evening, & my mom died peacefully on Monday morning

    thank you for sharing this, loveed

    you must have been a comfort & joy to your mom, especially during the past five months

    Parent

    The peace you feel is from the (none / 0) (#59)
    by Anne on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 08:21:34 PM EST
    gift you gave your mother in her final months - the ability to have the death she wanted, to tie up the feelings and memories of the past, to strengthen your connection, to be known by her, and know of her, in ways you may not have been able to when life was not so simple.

    I had never been in the presence of death until my uncle died.  He was a widower with no children, and his sister, and my brother and I were the only family he had.  He missed his wife so terribly - she had died ten years before - and we believe he knew he was sick long before he went to the doctor.

    The day he died, in the hospital, he was mostly unconscious, off the respirator, but we sat and talked to him, gave him permission to go, assured him we would be okay.  We talked and laughed, cried, held his hands, rubbed his forehead, and late in the afternoon, he took his last breath, and was gone.  It was peaceful and warm and happened in the presence of love - and there was a lot of peace in that for those of us left behind.

    I am so sorry for your loss, but so glad for you and your mother that you were able to be with her, and she with you, in so many meaningful ways as she made the last steps on her life's journey.

    Parent

    You are so very kind, loveed (none / 0) (#66)
    by christinep on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 09:03:24 PM EST
    So very kind, gracious, & loving to share like this with all here. Thank you, thank you. I pray that your mother is truly with Peace, and that Peace is with you.

    Parent
    I would like to thank everyone (none / 0) (#71)
    by loveed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 09:33:31 PM EST
    for the kind thoughts and best wishes. It's like and extended family here.
     She wanted to be cremated.  We will take her home to Covington,kentucky. Release her ashes along the river she swam in as a child.
     I have been receiving calls all day, from family I haven't seen in years. It's funny how death always bring a family closer together.
     Friends and family hear, I've asked for a few days. I haven't really been home for a straight 24hrs. in about 5 months.
     My husband has been wonderful through all of this. He loved her also. Near the end it was harder on him.
     This day will always be special. My moms day of peace. And the day I married my husband.
     

    Parent
    There is something of a warmth (none / 0) (#82)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 12:02:38 AM EST
    to the end of life - particularly the end of the lives that started our own.

    My dad died in hospice exactly one week ago. I'm not sleeping through the night and I can't focus well enough to hold a thought for more than 5 minutes. He was 88 and certainly had lived a very honorable and worthwhile life. But, everything we, as his children, had known is now closed to future memories. It is a remarkable experience in the scheme of life.

    I don't know your mom's journey, or yours, but I will advocate for the rest of my life for decent treatment of our elderly.

    Parent

    On the loss of a father (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by christinep on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 12:05:29 PM EST
    Whether young or old, the leaving is indelible. My dad--who raised my sister & me from aged 2 and 6, respectively, after my mother died--was wonderful beyond words. The day before he left this earth many years ago at a youngish 65, he had done his usual ice-dancing turn and stopped by for a special dinner with me and called when he got home a few miles away to say with a smile "I'm safe; I'm home now." Those were the last words I heard from him...and, they still ring clear.

    Just as there will always be certain memories, they not only glow as in times past...but they often gently nudge nudge us, tickle us, hearten us both with new life & in new ways. Today, I still glance up over my shoulder or get an idea that he would urge.

    The sorrow is profound; and, the love that imbues it all and sparkles over the years is profound as well. May that love sustain you.

    Parent

    my sincere condolences, Inspector (none / 0) (#85)
    by The Addams Family on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 12:36:04 AM EST
    Let me add my condolences, Inspector. (none / 0) (#88)
    by caseyOR on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 01:43:57 AM EST
    No matter how old we are, the loss of a parent is always deeply affecting.  

    Parent
    I am so sorry for your lost (none / 0) (#89)
    by loveed on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 05:29:16 AM EST
    Soon you will laugh about something, that happen between you and your dad. And start remembering the life you shared. Someone will tell a story, and you will remember the good times.
     Don't grieve to long. You will be wasting life. A life he gave you. I don't think he would want this.
     Everyday tell your love ones, you love them.

    Parent
    Sorry for your loss (none / 0) (#93)
    by Nemi on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 08:10:28 AM EST
    But such beautiful posts by both you and loveed. And I couldn't agree more:
    I will advocate for the rest of my life for decent treatment of our elderly.
    Always and ever.


    Parent
    I'm so sorry for your loss, Inspector. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Anne on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 09:23:48 AM EST
    Glad you got hospice involved - the people who work in hospice are some remarkable human beings, in my opinion - but even though we know on one level it's time, and it's better for the person we love, we really don't want to let go.

    I remember the not-sleeping after my dad died; I think I was intent on not forgetting, of wanting to remember and remember and remember - everything - as if I needed to fill up my head as full as it could get in order not to really lose him.  And when I did sleep, I would have dreams about him, many of which came just before waking, and for that second or two, I woke up believing he was still with us.

    It's a real ebb and flow, isn't it - waves of grief with some semblance of normal every now and then to remind you that life is going on.

    My thoughts and sympathy go out to you.

    Parent

    Such a (none / 0) (#92)
    by Nemi on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 08:01:49 AM EST
    wonderful, close and loving relationship you had with your mom, loveed. I've relished reading about it, and am so very sad to hear about her death. At the same time this is such beautiful approach on your part
    I stopped grieving for her in April, and lived life with her until today.

    Happy anniversary ... despite your sorrow.

    Parent

    It was a good anniversary (none / 0) (#98)
    by loveed on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 08:48:42 AM EST
    One I will never forget. My mom is at peace.
     I wonder how I would feel today. Not waking up beside her,or going to take of her. But I have such a feeling of peace. She prepared all of us.
     I was talking to my niece this morning. About putting together a memorial album. Her father was with my mother when she passed away. 95% of the conversation we were laughing, about different thing that occur over the last few months.
     I see her all around. She left so many pieces of herself here. My youngest granddaughter looks just like her.
     The one thing I noticed about my mom, she couldn't tell us enough how much she loved us. It was the last words she spoke to me.
     So before its to late, tell those you love,you love them.

    Parent
    It's always been my philosophy (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Nemi on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 04:38:06 PM EST
    that one of the most important things you can give your kids is love. It seems your mother agreed with that. And you too I'm guessing, as it's even part of your on-line "name". :)

    It's a blessing to have such fond memories of a recently deceased dearly beloved, that you can actually laugh while sharing memories. And with a granddaughter looking so much like your mom, I was thinking, why not put together the memorial album with her as a future recipient in mind? Just a thought.

    Parent

    Condolences (none / 0) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 09:00:11 AM EST
    but I am glad that you had those last days with your mom and were able to enjoy what you had. This is the advantage of an illness in many ways---you know the time is coming and are able to be at peace when it happens. Sudden death is so hard to take.

    Parent
    Loveed, your poignant words mean (none / 0) (#108)
    by jeffinalabama on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 01:06:29 PM EST
    so much. Thank you for sharing with us, and please accept my condolences. I wish I could give you a hug today.

    Amongst my other issues, I'll soon be facing the same with my father. I have stopped grieving, but I think I may begin again. I miss him now, and his shell still remains.

    Parent

    Jeff I think of you often (none / 0) (#121)
    by loveed on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 10:44:44 PM EST
    You are always in my prayer.
     When your with your dad, close your eyes and think of a special moment shared between the two of you.Take his hand. Don't focus on the present,feel the past.
     You can still take his hand.
     I wish you both peace. Remember the love you shared. It will always be there.

    Parent
    KUSC FM weirdness: supposed to (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 11:51:39 AM EST
    be the Opera Show at 9 a.m.  Instead, a Groundhog Dayesque continuous loop of a Mozart piano sonata.  

    More on the speech (none / 0) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 12:40:31 PM EST
    President Barack Obama will release a detailed deficit-cutting plan soon after his jobs speech, the White House said Friday, answering Republican critics who demanded more specifics during the debt-limit debate but reopening old wounds with the Democratic base.

    In the speech Thursday, Obama will challenge the 12-member congressional supercommittee to exceed its $1.5 trillion goal for budget savings -- setting a higher target that would allow the additional money to fund tax breaks and other stimulus spending. But the "very specific" deficit recommendations that Obama promised last month won't come until after the speech, although the exact timing is unclear, White House officials said. link




    {{Sigh}} (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 01:16:12 PM EST
    I......I.....oh forget it, I have no words for this except how utterly disappointing.  Not unexpected, but disappointing.

    Parent
    Even (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:19:25 PM EST
    if he said he was going to do the things that I think need to be done, I wouldn't believe him so what's the point?

    I'm not going to waste any of my time watching the speech.

    Parent

    Well, this is true (none / 0) (#22)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:41:38 PM EST
    And I'll deliberately be too busy making snacks for the football game to watch the speech.  Gee, darn.

    Parent
    Yeh. Wake me (5.00 / 0) (#26)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:58:36 PM EST
    when my son gets a job -- and in the home of Obama reelection headquarters, yet.

    Ten months -- the average time out of work, I read today -- and hundreds of job applications later, I think that my son will be watching the pregame, too.  He worked so hard for Obama, but the hard times have turned him into a very different voter next time.  Recent conversations with him and others tell me that it's all over for the 2012 election, unless the Dems have even a modicum of sense left and tell Obama to make his last great speech, stepping aside.  They still probably cannot win the White House, but that at least could save some seats in Congress.

    Parent

    My son (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 03:08:44 PM EST
    is out of a job, too.  And no health insurance.  (Not only can he not afford it, he has a "previously existing condition.")  My daughter, who has a doctorate in the biological sciences, is almost done with her post-doctoral training and is starting to look for a job- and it's not looking promising.  She's talking about looking overseas.  This generation of those in their 20's and 30's (as well as those younger), are not going to be able to look forward to doing better than their parents, or even doing as well.  It breaks my heart for all those out of work.  Young, old, blue collar, white collar.    

    Parent
    Yes, it's heartbreaking (5.00 / 0) (#30)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 03:40:20 PM EST
    and not good for the health of aging us, either.

    But thank you, Zorba, for reminding me of the blessing that my daughter-in-law has health insurance through her job, the better job for her that was the reason for their relocation (so my son gave up his job, so does not get unemployment).

    The funds that I do not send to them, I save for travel costs to come, as I know that they also are looking overseas, since her firm is based overseas.  And since she works in the energy field, which sure got a kick in the a** from Obama yesterday, too -- another reason that they were among the young voters yesterday who talked of not voting for Obama again.

    He has destroyed their hopes while putting all of his hopes on Wall Street.  The only reason that Wall Street would want him to win is that he will continue to act Republican while branding this economic debacle as the blame of the Democrats.

    Parent

    I read an article, prob. in Int. Herald Trib., (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 04:06:57 PM EST
    that Purdue has a speciality in homeland security and the students obtaining this degree have countless job opportunities.  Depressing, no?

    Parent
    Control jobs... (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 04:18:55 PM EST
    control of the masses, the great unwashed. How many will be drawing up new regs and/or new laws to be passed by congress, taking away more freedoms?

    just what we need.

    Parent

    we won't be safe, jeff (5.00 / 0) (#65)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 09:03:21 PM EST
    until there's a law prescribing every behavior and proscribing every iota of freedom

    Parent
    So many of the available jobs (none / 0) (#50)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 06:47:46 PM EST
    Are going to be in homeland security or......maybe the service industry?  Control the masses or flip their burgers.  What a wonderful future for our children and grandchildren to look forward to.  :-(

    Parent
    not just children & grandchildren (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 08:15:47 PM EST
    disemployed boomers too, if anybody will hire us

    Parent
    Did the speech already happen? (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:18:09 PM EST
    Yes, the aftershocks are already (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by observed on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:21:14 PM EST
    being felt on skid row.

    Parent
    The subtext to the speech (none / 0) (#25)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 02:56:21 PM EST
    and the context for the urgent need for its delivery before a joint session of congress is, in my view, the "challenge" to the super-committee (aka Cat Food II).  The nightmare scenario of President Obama is that Cat Food II will fail or that Congress will fail to approve its work, thereby triggering cuts of $1.2 trillion by automatic sequestration--across the board cuts in equal parts between defense and non-defense spending. Even though defense accounts for about 20 percent of the budget, it is would take 50 percent of the cuts. Petraeus and Panetta have let Obama know that that can't happen.

    Most low income cuts would be exempt from the auto-sequestration as would direct cuts in Medicare benefits (reductions would occur for providers).  Cat Food II starts its work next week, and that turkey is due out by Thanksgiving with a congressional vote in time to stuff our Christmas stockings with its coal.  

    The ostensible part of the speech, jobs, will be just that, ostensible, with initiatives to help reduce jobless rates or at least show some optimistic forecasts, if possible.  But, the White House has already prepared us for the new normal. We are to  expect persistently high unemployment rates (next year at about nine percent and not below six percent until 20l7, two years later than predicted just last February). So, we can sit back and enjoy the show.

    Parent

    1937 (none / 0) (#62)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 08:48:43 PM EST
    Auburn's defense is.... (none / 0) (#31)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 03:49:27 PM EST
    questionable. But I'll take a win.

    By Monday (none / 0) (#42)
    by CoralGables on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 05:13:20 PM EST
    all anyone will remember is that last year's national champs are 1-0.

    As opposed to last year's Number 2 who played a similar game, and all anyone will remember is 0-1.

    Parent

    Hey, careful there, CoralGables. (none / 0) (#44)
    by caseyOR on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 05:48:32 PM EST
    You might have to eat those words.

    Parent
    Right now (none / 0) (#48)
    by CoralGables on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 06:35:47 PM EST
    I'm getting ready to try and watch Gators and Ducks at the same time, and wonder what in the world happened to the Beavers.

    Parent
    A friend just e-mailed me the entire (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 07:12:43 PM EST
    "Big HOuse" was evacuated mid-game due to thunder and lightening.  Then everyone went back to their seats to see the game resume.  Now that's dedication.  

    Parent
    I just realized (none / 0) (#56)
    by CoralGables on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 08:10:53 PM EST
    When I evaluated the maize and blue's schedule, I was actually looking at their 2012 schedule. They would have to be dead and buried to open 0-3 this season.

    Parent
    Update: game called do to weather. (none / 0) (#70)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 09:26:17 PM EST
    First time ever.  And the Wolverines were beating Western Michigan!

    Parent
    The Beavers :-( (none / 0) (#63)
    by caseyOR on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 08:56:15 PM EST
    Now that Washington State appears to be breathing again, I expect the Beavers to own the Pac 12 basement.

    I have never been all that impressed with Mike Riley. He gets a whole lot of love here. I don't understand why. He does not recruit well, and even when OSU gets good players the team never really gels.

    Oh, they pull out a big victory here and there, like against USC, but no  consistent wins. And now, with Jaquizz Rogers off to the NFL and his brother James still not at 100%, OSU lacks any spark.

    Parent

    A bad bad day (none / 0) (#73)
    by CoralGables on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 10:25:02 PM EST
    for fresh water mammals and water fowl from the great northwest. The Big O cap will have to spend tomorrow back on the hook.

    Parent
    Bad day indeed. (none / 0) (#78)
    by caseyOR on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 11:16:26 PM EST
    Oh well, back to the practice field.

    Parent
    I agree in part (none / 0) (#77)
    by CoralGables on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 11:11:31 PM EST
    but let's remember that Georgia was 6-7 last year and Boise was favored to win.

    Parent
    Games this week (none / 0) (#84)
    by CoralGables on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 12:28:41 AM EST
    that I would absolutely view as much bigger wins than Boise over Georgia (in no particular order):

    South Florida over Notre Dame
    Baylor over TCU
    LSU over Oregon
    Sacramento State over Oregon State

    and maybe Houston over UCLA

    Parent

    I don't know how the Georgia Bulldogs (none / 0) (#102)
    by jeffinalabama on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 09:40:42 AM EST
    got ranked 19 in the pre-season. Nobody in SEC country except Bulldog fans expected much from them this year... Georgia has become Thug U, and Richt is rapidly running out of time. I was surprised last year that he was retained.

    Not speaking against Boise State, but they played a weak, poorly coached, and underperforming Georgia team.

    Gotta hand it to the old ball coach... 19 point win over the Pirates.

    I'd say the SEC west will be interesting... Alabama, LSU, and Mississippi State. Not to leave out Auburn, but I wouldn't want to be on the defensive team starting today through Thursday!

    Parent

    Was Bill Clinton Clintonian? (none / 0) (#52)
    by Politalkix on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 06:55:55 PM EST
    The GOP war on voting (none / 0) (#80)
    by Politalkix on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 11:48:59 PM EST
    is rick santorum still (none / 0) (#90)
    by cpinva on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 07:38:15 AM EST
    ostensibly running for president? i ask because the more i see, hear and read of him, the more i am convinced he is only just barely functionally illiterate. i realize he's been elected to public office before, which i believe is more an indictment of those that voted for him, than of mr. santorum himself. his word salad rivals that of sarah palin, for almost total impenitrability.

    at this point, what sets him apart from ms. palin is that he at least completed his term in office, and doesn't appear to be making nearly the money she is. i'd love to have them in a room together, opining on the great issues of the day. if a psychology phd candidate couldn't make their thesis bones on these two, they don't deserve to get that degree.

    You can throw (none / 0) (#116)
    by Zorba on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 05:35:17 PM EST
    Rick Perry into that room with Palin and Santorum, too, because Perry makes George W. Bush look like a Mensa member.  Which is saying something.  

    Parent
    Cheney would like a HRC primary run (none / 0) (#104)
    by Politalkix on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 10:51:21 AM EST
    link

    so that Republicans can work better with Democrats.

    Go figure :-)

    Just (none / 0) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 12:01:57 PM EST
    goes to show how stupid Cheney is. Cheney doesn't want her to run for those reason though.

    Parent
    Obama-Cheney bipartisan deal (none / 0) (#112)
    by Politalkix on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 03:56:34 PM EST
    Scene in the WH

    Obama: I am intrigued by your suggestion that HRC would have worked better with Republicans. Tell me more about it.

    Cheney: Yes, she would (gives a sly smile)

    Obama: You know, you may have a point. Her talents are being wasted in the state department. She is working too well there negotiating agreements with people who in your opinion should be bombed.

    Cheney: Yes! Yes! (getting all excited)

    Obama: The Foggy Bottom is bottomless pit that starves the brain of oxygen. I know that you too had your problems with Secretary Powell.

    Cheney: The State Dept is a UN mouthpiece!

    Obama: I thought the same too. President Bush really did not need a Secretary of State when he had a very powerful VP in you.

    Cheney lets out a primal scream which seems to indicate that he is in total agreement.

    Obama: I think I sense agreement. We do not need a SoS any more. I will ask HRC to be my VP. And I will ask her to run for President in 2016. Every VP should get a chance to run for Prez. I cannot believe that Prez Bush did not support a run from you in 2008. You deserved better!

    Cheney: What? (is seen slumping on his chair).

    Obama leaves the room. Cheney is heard yelling out a curse and muttering "I knew it, this guy is trickier than Tricky Dick".  

    Parent

    If only (none / 0) (#115)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 05:29:26 PM EST
    Obama was that tricky we would be in a lot better shape than we are.

    Parent
    Bonus points (none / 0) (#119)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 09:26:00 PM EST
    Much more detailed than your usual works of fiction.

    Bravo!

    Parent

    Dick Cheney would like anyone ... (none / 0) (#109)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 02:02:24 PM EST
    ... to primary Obama, but not for the reasons he claimed.

    ... doesn't take much "figuring".

    Parent