home

Thursday Night Open Thread

Looks like we need another open thread. Here it is, all topics welcome.

< Thursday Open Thread | Joran Van der Sloot Trial Postponed Pending Decision on Confession >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    court rules on LGBT parents, birth certificates (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by desmoinesdem on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 11:55:51 PM EST
    This week an Iowa district court ruled that the state Department of Public Health should issue a birth certificate naming two legally married women as the parents of their child, rather than making the non-birthing mother go through the adoption process.

    However, the court's ruling doesn't necessarily apply to all LGBT couples who want to be listed automatically on their children's birth certificates (as the husbands of birthing mothers are, regardless of genetic parentage).

    The judge specified that in line with the Iowa Supreme Court's 2009 decision on marriage (Varnum v Brien), "where a married woman gives birth to a baby conceived through use of an anonymous sperm donor, the Department of Public Health should place her same-sex spouse's name on the child's birth certificate without requiring the spouse to go through an adoption proceeding."

    It's not yet clear how the IDPH will implement the court ruling; perhaps some lesbian couple who did not use an anonymous sperm donor will have to fight the same court battle in the future.

    Unemployment (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 07:46:40 AM EST
    "The United States added a robust 200,000 new jobs last month, the Labor Department said Friday, in a sign that the long-awaited economic recovery has finally built up a head of steam.

    The nation's unemployment rate fell to 8.5 percent in December from 8.6 percent in November, the government said. The Labor Department revised the number of new jobs added in November to 100,000 from 120,000.

    The employment report built on a flurry of heartening economic news in December, when consumer confidence rose, manufacturing came in strong and small businesses showed signs of life. It was the sixth straight month that the economy has added more than 100,000 jobs -- not enough to restore employment to pre-recession levels, but enough, perhaps, to cheer President Obama as he enters an election year.

    The upward trend restored some of the ground lost this spring and summer, when global events like the earthquake in Japan and domestic ones like the debt ceiling debate slowed the American recovery to a crawl and raised fears of a second recession. Then, even signs of modest growth were dismissed as too anemic. Now, they are drawing tentative praise."

    Link

    Just saying.

    OH Please !!! (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by samsguy18 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:35:31 AM EST
    This is a seasonal report....

    Parent
    The numbers are always adjusted (none / 0) (#64)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:09:51 AM EST
    for seasonal issues....

    So, not it is not a seasonal report....

    Parent

    Millions of Americans Unemployed Still ! (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by samsguy18 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:55:39 AM EST
    The numbers do not include the underemployed...or the millions who have given up hope of finding a job....You have to be blind not to see how many people are hurting!I find this political/media game of manipulation infuriating !

    Parent
    The point was not whether (none / 0) (#99)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:07:17 PM EST
    the overall economy was good or bad.  The point was whether this jobs report was a good one.  It was.

    Moreover, the broader measures of unemployment came down too.

    But you fall into a binary, all-good v all-bad absolutism.  Why not just admit the obivous and then make another point?  

    Parent

    That the jobLESS numbers were better (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by Towanda on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:50:53 PM EST
    is not really the point.  The point is how many people have jobs -- and decent ones, of course, but that statistic is buried.  

    The statistic in that story that is telling is that the percentage of people with jobs is unchanged, flat, going nowhere.  

    Factor in the standard increase in population, and you are only celebrating that the little Dutch boy still has his thumb in the dike -- but there has been no serious effort to repair it, and against a mighty tide of trouble, we remain at the whim of the equivalent of a little boy.

     

    Parent

    Still good jobs numbers (none / 0) (#139)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:21:16 PM EST
    We will need a better econonmy before long term systemic issues can be addressed.  

    These jobs numbers suggest, if they continue, that unempolyment will be lessening.....

    The attention and frankly money needed to address the long term issues will be hard to garner until the boy with his thumb in the dike holds back a little more water.

    Parent

    Wondering how many of the "new" jobs (none / 0) (#142)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:25:06 PM EST
    are Christmas retail hiring.  

    Parent
    The numbers are seasonally adjusted (none / 0) (#200)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 03:12:52 PM EST
    Although these numbers may have a quik of 44k in courier jobs for December, similar to last year.

    Parent
    Dean Baker (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:21:59 PM EST
    The survey reported 200,000 jobs in December; however this figure is skewed by the 42,200 job gain reported for couriers. There was a similar gain in this category reported for last December, which was completely reversed the next month. Clearly this is a problem of seasonal adjustment, not an issue of real job growth. Pulling out these jobs, the economy created 158,000 jobs in December, in line with expectations. link


    Parent
    Interesting, the consensus (none / 0) (#115)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:26:33 PM EST
    prediction was a net job gain of 150k.

    Parent
    Another report out today..... (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:13:37 PM EST
    20% of full time jobs in the US pay poverty level wages. I guess we can fix that by redefining the poverty level.

    Parent
    People dropping out of the job market (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:27:33 PM EST
    The rate for Hispanics fell most steeply among the racial groups, from 12.9 percent to 11 percent. But that's because a disproportionate number of Hispanics have stopped looking for work and so aren't counted as unemployed. Immigration has also declined sharply. That means there are fewer foreign-born job-seekers.

    Unemployment among African-Americans was unchanged at 15.8 percent over the past year. link



    Parent
    +200,000 jobs added in Dec (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 07:48:38 AM EST
    Unemployment falls to 8.5% - lowest in 3 years.

    Good news.  Hopefully not just temp/ seasonal help.

    372,000 people filed their initial (5.00 / 5) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 08:40:06 AM EST
    unemployment claims in December and 200,000 new jobs for the month, and magically the unemployment percentage falls?  That being a healthy happening is impossible, what has happened is that people have left the workforce for you to get that kind of magic.  Your aggregate demand has just shrunk some more.  This is lose/lose.  There was no win here.

    Parent
    MT (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:03:52 AM EST
    With all due respect, this is analysis is not correct.

    1. The initial jobless claim number also fell to the lowest level in 3 years and beat estimates.

    2. Altogether, the economy has added jobs for 15 consecutive months.

    3. It is complicated, but if the initial claims number is falling it is a harbinger of material continued unemployment decreases.

    4. Here is a further breakdown on why you can't just look at jobs added on one hand and initial claims on the other:

    "So the first statistic is called "initial claims." But this term is misleading. This isn't necessary the first time an American has filed for unemployment insurance. There are a number of reasons why a claim might be considered "initial," even if it isn't in the strict sense of the word. For example, if someone stopped getting insurance for a time, when they file again, it may be considered an initial claim. So really, this number isn't terribly useful, because lots of variables can effect whether a claim is considered initial or not."

    Link

    5. A few months back, many here agreed that Felix Salmon was one of the best, left leaning, economic commentators out there, so I generally check his thoughts when these reports come out.  His take:

    "File this one under "unmitigated good news": America's employment situation turns out to have been rosier, at the end of 2011, than anyone had dared hope. There were 200,000 more people in work last month than there were in November, and the unemployment rate -- by far the single most politically-important macroeconomic statistic -- fell to 8.5%, the lowest rate in three years. All data series are noisy, of course, and we'll surely see volatility in this one over the course of 2012. But it really does seem that there's a bit of fire in the American belly right now, and that things are going to continue to get better over the course of this year unless and until some new crisis comes along.

    The cheer is spread all over this report. The broadest measure of underemployment, U-6, fell sharply to 15.2%, again a new three-year low, and down two full percentage points in two years. The unemployment figures more generally are now beginning to look as though they're in a downward trend, rather than every good month being offset with a subsequent disappointment. I'm not worried about an economy falling below stall speed any more -- there's a world of difference between this report and the gruesome one we were initially presented with four months ago. Back then, it seemed like nothing could get Americans back to work: now, with political gridlock as far as the eye can see through 2012, it seems that America has got used to nothing and is has worked out how to grow anyway."

    This is good news MT. It doesn't diminish the struggles of those still hurting to acknowledge that.

    Parent

    I just will not read this after the first sentence (5.00 / 6) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:11:30 AM EST
    Your first sentence is "with all due respect" and I know what respect you think is due me :)  I'm not going to fret about you and your respect today :)  I'm not going to do it :)  Go take a nap or something :)

    Parent
    Donald (none / 0) (#132)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:10:06 PM EST
    Honest question.  You tell me if I am wrong.

    My first post today was just a flat quote about the economics numbers.

    If you look at the responses, I am the one who was talked down to.  In other words, I rarely if ever start this nonsense and I didn't today.

    I respect you so if I am wrong, I will concede that.  I just don't think I am wrong.  Which is why I wonder why I am the one scolded for talking down to people.  Just as I am scolded for bullying while the guy who wanted to meet me and fight gets a complete pass.

    Given the lack of reaction to an actual threat of violence by the TL community, how am I to take seriously the idea that this place is objective or fair in its criticism.  You aside of course.  You, MKS and a few others seem pretty fair even when you disagree with me.

    We play this pattern out repeatedly.  I make a generic statement, someone responds inappropriately, I escalate back and then someone asks me to settle down or stop bullying or what have you.

    Then I donate $5 to Obama and hope for the day I can gloat on behalf of the one person they are united against more than Obama supporters:

    Obama.

    Parent

    Agreed (5.00 / 3) (#150)
    by vicndabx on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:34:25 PM EST
    I read thru that thread and was shocked.  Don't know what the double-standard has its roots in, but it is clearly obvious to me.

    The pile on was even more amazing.  It's like (junior?) high school all over again.  People should be able to get as good as they give.

    Or, stay out of it completely and stop passive agressively referring other posters.

    Parent

    Useless gloating (none / 0) (#204)
    by sj on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 08:48:44 PM EST
    The consensus here is that O will win re-election.  To varying degrees of applause, to be sure, but it's pretty much a given here that the election is Obama's to lose.  Will he?  I don't think so.  But I'm not willing to bet on that either.  The situation seems volatile to me.

    Parent
    Oh I know (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:47:54 AM EST
    But I am going to focus on the positives - it's Friday, sunny, and going to be near 60 degrees here in our nation's capital.  I choose to be a Tigger instead of an Eeyore today. :)

    Parent
    Some of our comrades though (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:50:37 AM EST
    They don't get a choice between their rosy glasses and their bifocals.  Some people are really going through some hell and have been for a long time.

    Parent
    Completely agree (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:00:19 AM EST
    But maybe this will give them just a tiny bit of hope that 2012 will bring better news for them.

    I'm not cheering this news as proof that all is well, but rather as an indication that something better is out there - even if only for some. Let's face it - Europe is still a disaster, it's an election year, which means nothing will get done except more of our brain cells will die having to listen to polticians and pundits alike tell us how bad the other guy is, and people who aren't working aren't buying things. This positive number probably won't be sustained, but it's better news than saying we lost +200,000 jobs.

    Parent

    Do you really think nothing can get done (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:09:51 AM EST
    this year?  He did appoint Cordray.  I keep hoping that he will get serious about doing what he can do to help the middle and the poor because he must set himself apart from Romney in very meaningful ways.  I wish he would do it because his heart and soul demanded but that isn't who he is.  I was hoping maybe an election could be inspiration, because the people need him to care about them.

    Parent
    Not much (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:24:48 AM EST
    Boehner won't let anything major go through that will help Obama's chances of re-election, and with 24 Dems up for re-election in the Senate, at least 8 of those being toss up (in mostly conservative states), and with only 4 seats needing to flip to give Republicans control, I don't think much will be coming out of that chamber either.

    Parent
    Democrats being scared of their own (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:14:48 AM EST
    shadows is what has led to this current insecurity.  Either Democrats in office have joined Republican's at the trough of feeding on power to overly enrich their own lives and that is why they no longer publicly fight for or honestly defend the public, or they have all become too stupid to argue a debate in which they champion the people - a debate that is already won on the atmospheric level.

    Parent
    Sheesh, MT. Did you get up (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 08:51:09 AM EST
    and come here just to rain on somebody's parade this morning?

    ;-)

    Parent

    Paying it forward (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:09:42 AM EST
    BTD showed up the other day and said the Republican primaries didn't matter, but it is the only thing I've got watch where fighting for thrones is concerned and he broke my heart :)

    Parent
    At least (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:17:53 AM EST
    republican right wingers don't troll this place as bad as the 'democratic' right wingers do...

    Parent
    Care to engage on the merits? (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:07:07 AM EST
    Edger (none / 0) (#28)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:05:35 AM EST
    Do you share MT's opinion that the economic news is a lose/lose?

    Parent
    Yes, of coures, he does (none / 0) (#63)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:08:19 AM EST
    Even if the broader under employment rate declined....

    Parent
    Having tears this morning (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 08:23:28 AM EST
    Reading about Matt Damon and Mom declining the nomination from NEA.  Times like these call for courage, we must all stand up for what we believe in but only a few do.  I have seen Damon speak in support of teachers and giving our children the education they deserve, but knowing that he and his mother are up there standing together and saying No to the con artist's stroking and false prizes makes me shed a few tears.

    I thank them

    Anyway (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:23:23 AM EST
    It's a good job report and I am happy that it is positive.  

    The jobs report: Decent...but weak. (5.00 / 4) (#41)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:39:15 AM EST
    I thought I would reply to you, MT, with some cautionary information that ABG cannot/will not acknowledge or consider...

    From Calculated Risk:  

    This was a decent report compared to expectations, but it was still weak compared to the number of people unemployed and the high level of unemployment.

    There were 200,000 payroll jobs added in December. This included 212,000 private sector jobs added, and 12,000 government jobs lost. The unemployment rate fell to 8.5% from a revised 8.7% in November (revised from 8.6%). U-6, an alternate measure of labor underutilization that includes part time workers and marginally attached workers, declined to 15.2% - this remains very high. U-6 was in the 8% range in 2007.

    For the year, the economy added 1.64 million total non-farm jobs or just 137 thousand per month. This is a better pace of payroll job creation than in 2010, but the economy still has 6.0 million fewer payroll jobs than at the beginning of the 2007 recession.

    There were 1.92 million private sector jobs added in 2011, or about 160 thousand per month.

    Both the participation rate and the employment population ratio were unchanged in December at 64.0% and 58.5% respectively.

    Lots more numbers and graphs included in the CR post.

    David Dayen:

    The reason that the unemployment rate was able to tick down, however, is that the labor force participation rate remained unchanged at 64.0%. This low participation rate means that, even with the economy growing and the job market improving, a fair number of able-bodied workers have not rejoined the labor force. When they do, and when the labor force participation rate increases, that will put upward pressure on that topline unemployment rate. And unless everyone came into found money, that's fated to happen. The employment-population ratio also remained unchanged in December (58.5%), despite the job additions. The average workweek and average pay went up very slightly over the month.

    We still have a major problem with long-term unemployed, those out of work 27 weeks or more. They account for 42.5% of the total unemployed, a record 5.6 million workers. They need more than just decent reports; a surge in hiring would be required to get them back to work. Involuntary part-time workers fell in December, so really the long-term jobless stick out even more.

    [snip]

    Transportation employment, particularly couriers and messengers, went up sharply in December, along with the expected gains in retail, given the holiday shopping season. A boost to couriers makes complete sense around the holiday season as well. Manufacturing jumped by 23,000 after four months of stagnating. Health care and restaurant services added jobs. Professional business services stalled out.

    If you strung together a bunch of months like this, the economy would still not be where it was in the Clinton years, when 300,000 jobs a month were created on average. This is a decent growth report that, even if replicated, would still take years to get back to a normal rate of employment.

    As Felix Salmon said - in the part of the excerpt ABG left out:

    Of course, the long-term problems remain long-term problems, including the number of people unemployed for more than six months or a year, and the overall percentage of the population which actually has a job. None of those numbers moved significantly, and none are likely to any time soon. They're not things which get changed by a month-long bout of hiring: they're deeply engrained in the economic structure of the country, now, and are likely to prove stubbornly resistant to change.

    But for the majority of us who are working now or who have had a job in recent months, things are looking relatively rosy. Average weekly earnings rose to $799.46, continuing a steady upward rise. And there's even hope that the painful public-sector layoffs might be coming to an end: while we now have 280,000 fewer government employees than we did a year ago, that number was pretty much unchanged in December. (Or maybe it's just that even the government has a little heart, and doesn't like laying people off right before the holidays.)

    "Decent, but weak."


    Exactly...the not participating rate (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:49:16 AM EST
    is what changed.  And this was a decent report "compared to expectations", failing again to see any real win for the little people as soldiers will now be kicked out of the military before they become eligible for a retirement.  And kicked to the curb in this job market.

    Parent
    Anne: (5.00 / 0) (#59)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:36:18 AM EST
    Anne the numbers were better than expected across the board.  The analysis you quote says, in a nutshell, things are still bad.

    Which is a very basic point.  Of course things are still bad. The very sources you quote indicate that under the best of scenarios, the dream numbers they target won't be reached for years.

    The point is whether things are moving in the right direction.

    Answer: They are.  And it is moving faster than projected.  This answer is unquestionably true on all fronts.

    In any event, when challenged I asked for names of economists and blogs that TL respected and Calculated Risk and Felix Salmon were two.  One of those sources says that this was unmitigated good news and the other says that " decent report compared to expectations".

    No matter what math you are using, if you average out those results you do not get "lose/lose" as Tracy suggested, which is my point.

    Parent

    Oh, call the whaaaambulance, ABG... (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:55:04 AM EST
    (1) His name is Jeff, not "Jim"

    (2) It's hard to "lighten" a tone that comes from what most of us recognize as the pain - both physical and mental - of being in Jeff's situation - a situation you cavalierly dismissed as being not enough to drive any policy that affects a lot of people.

    (3) There is no double standard: your history of polite conflation of comments, measured mangling of the facts, selective use of buzz words to substitute for reading and following the information others have provided because you wouldn't or couldn't, set you up for what happened last night; in my opinion, it was long overdue.

    (4) This is just a dalliance for you, a diversion, a place to push buttons and take your passive-aggression out to play - that's your persona, the one you brought here, so don't get all whiny when people treat you accordingly.

    Karma's a bitch, ABG - deal with it.

    Re-Jeff (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by samsguy18 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:45:20 PM EST
    Anne I'm not replying to your post...I haven't been here for a little while...I went back to the previous Thursday open thread and saw Jeff's heartbreaking news. This message is for Jeff..I don't know where you are today...there are good county hospitals in this country with some of the best medical personel in the country who will take care of you.

    Parent
    ABG is right (none / 0) (#61)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:04:41 AM EST
    I had thought you would be different, and was hopeful you would engage on the merits.

    But, no, you went the ad hominem route.

    The posts last night were way over the top and unjustified in my opinion.  There is most defintely a double standard here.

    And, and I think ABG has the better of you on the jobs report--especially using your preferred source........

    Parent

    You REALLY think.... (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:28:35 AM EST
    ...this report represents something tangibly positive?  No offense, but, first, these reports are ALWAYS revised negatively in the future to little fanfare.  So whatever positive you might want to see, odds are very good the reality is something different and worse, but that will be added later when no one is looking anymore. The truth is, the country is not even HAVING A DISCUSSION about what is really needed to employ securely a modern and growing and heavily armed population (i.e. jobs for the sake of jobs to fend of social chaos; jobs that reward work with generous wages and benefits JUST BECAUSE WE THINK OUR FELLOW HUMANS WORTHY).  As it stands now, we're really just twiddling our thumbs and pissing into the wind, then wondering "What the hell is burning my eyes so much?"  Hey, I know ABG gets a handful here, I understand, but on jobs reports, I'm sorry, history is too easily read, too predictably an indicator of what this report really is -- soft propaganda aimed more at temporary ratings than anything else.

    That said, let's be honest, if Obama cannot win this election, he was nothing to begin with.  Against this field of Republicans, literally, I could coach the right high school senior to a win.  And so could you.  Any of us could.  That's kind of the problem.

    Peace.

    Parent

    Responses (none / 0) (#80)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:41:32 AM EST
    1. These reports are not always revised negatively.  The variables move around one way or another regularly after the fact. The change in total nonfarm payroll employment for October was revised from +100,000 to +112,000, and the change for November was revised from +120,000 to +100,000.

    2. Obama should win the election given the competition.  Agree with that.

    3. The competition is so terrible that people who assist in them winning by not supporting Obama are welcoming bigger disaster IMHO.

    4. Normally I'd be a bit more reserved on the economic indicators, but I am willing to stick my neck out and say that the uptick is real and the start of a trend. I think if we get another down tick in unemployment next month, people should grudgingly acknowledge, at the least, that the ship has turned and we're moving in the right direction.


    Parent
    Thanks, ABG (none / 0) (#107)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:17:01 PM EST
    Normally I'd be a bit more reserved on the economic indicators, but I am willing to stick my neck out and say that the uptick is real and the start of a trend.

    Always nice to have a good laugh, especially after a long week ...

    Parent

    I am saying nothing different (none / 0) (#128)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:03:36 PM EST
    than what most economic experts are saying about the last quarter, including, as I have said, economists who have been referenced here in the past.  

    Are you arguing the trusted economists are not saying this or are you arguing that you know better than the economists?

    Parent

    Neither (none / 0) (#134)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:14:03 PM EST
    I'm laughing at the beginning of that sentence:

    Normally I'd be a bit more reserved on the economic indicators, but I am willing to stick my neck out ...


    Parent
    I do not believe that the jobs numbers (none / 0) (#105)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:16:02 PM EST
    are consciously manipulated.  Too many people involved to pull off such a conspiracy.

    Yes, this jobs reprots was unambiguously good.  Better than last month.  What does it portend?  That is a fair question.

    I think we will need a recovery within the current framework (which does hold back the middle class) before anyone will be able to address the long term systemic concerns.   If we could duplicate the Bill Clinton economy, it would be a boon, no?.....But the economy of the 90s still labored under systemici bias against the middle class.

    My analogy is environemental issues.  You need a decent economy before people will listen about using resources to protect our environment.  Just the way it is, reality.  So, too, with the economy.  We need to get this current albatross of a bad econonmy off our necks  before anyone will pay much attention to a fix for  long term problems.  

    Parent

    Change of subject--Cormac McCarthy (none / 0) (#118)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:35:50 PM EST
    What do you think of him?  For me, very frustrating....

    Parent
    Oh, please, MKS...I engaged ABG on the (5.00 / 0) (#100)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:09:20 PM EST
    specific points he made in response to Tracy - that's now considered "ad hominem?"

    I also provided more substance to round out the everything's-coming-up-roses comment he originally posted - and I used one of his own sources as part of that response.   And for what it's worth, I don't regularly cite or link to Felix Salmon, so I don't know where you are getting the idea that ABG got the better of me using Salmon's take on the jobs report.  What I did was click on the link and read Salmon's entire post - something I would encourage anyone to do when presented with quoted commentary and a link.

    As for last night, I can't speak for Jeff, but it was clear to me that he was tired of repeated efforts - ones we have all made - to engage ABG in honest debate, tired of correcting his constant conflations and weary of having his (Jeff's) clear, cogent and substantive comments met with indifference and dismissal.

    And, given Jeff's struggles with job loss and the cancer diagnosis, it shouldn't take an advanced degree in rocket science to understand why Jeff reacted the way he did.  Were others over the top?  Maybe, but we're all human, we all have our limits, and clearly, some people reached theirs last night; it happens.


    Parent

    You ad hominem wasn't (none / 0) (#110)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:20:15 PM EST
    your post discussing the jobs numbers--it was the karma is a b*tch post.

    I do not fault Jeff, or ABG.  That looks like a class miscommunication with ABG talking about policy and Jeff not so much.  

    But, yes, I do fault the rest of you for pouring gasoline on that fire.  It appeared that too many here were waiting with baited breath for an opportune moment to pound ABG.....  Because you do not like his ideas...

    Parent

    "classic" miscommunication (none / 0) (#114)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:24:08 PM EST
    Anne (none / 0) (#130)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:04:26 PM EST
    You resorted to name calling and questioning of motives.

    Parent
    Lordy (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by sj on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:02:57 AM EST
    Shows how much attention you pay to facts.  After that set-to you can't even get the name right.  That really is the kind of respect we have learned to get from you.

    sj (none / 0) (#56)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:30:15 AM EST
    It shows how little I cared about what he said.

    To be honest, his name wasn't worth getting right.  I have no respect for him.

    Parent

    Mom gives 7-yr-old daughter liposuction ... (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:24:29 AM EST
    ... "certificate" for Christmas.  Last year, the "Barbie-Mom" gave her a certificate for breast augmentation when she turns 18.

    Sometimes I wish there was a way to prevent some people from having children ...

    Wouldn't it be cheaper? (5.00 / 0) (#55)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:27:26 AM EST
    To give the kid healthy food and tell her to go outside and play and encourage het as opposed to already telling her she's fat and not worthy?

    Parent
    You would think (none / 0) (#85)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:52:10 AM EST
    Although, the girl is actually quite thin, based on the thumbnail of the video at the bottom of the article.  I guess she just want to be like her mother, which is pretty normal for her age ... just a shame she has that woman for a mother.

    Parent
    Of course all I can talk about today (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:25:33 AM EST
    is what will happen to the people who fought ten years of two wars when they need to put food on their family :)

    I have learned that after the first Gulf War, President Clinton took this very seriously.  He was downsizing the military, and many of them had gone overseas to fight a war.  He greatly respected that and in light of that fact offered buyouts instead of curb kicking through evil promotion boards. Nobody can remember how much he offered soldiers to get out though.  And I have too much to do to look it up today.  But Clinton was sending them into a much different job market.

    My husband asked me how much I thought should be offered in a buyout.  I said a starting base of $150,000.  In this economy most people are unemployed for at least a year.  Also, these people spent ten years making war and I don't know how many of them have the skills that employers will immediately find attractive.  Talking about how responsible and capable of learning someone is takes a backseat to every other credential.

    My husband laughed out loud like a horse and said, "Well, that number isn't happening!"

    Off Topic a Bit, Then Back to It (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:56:35 PM EST
    One of my major beefs in regards to the military is the companies who wouldn't exist w/o the US military, not opening their checkbooks to the people who make their overseas ventures possible.

    I'd like to see Exxon, Continental, Wall mart, or even Toyota turn a profit without them.  Is it to much to ask they help some of these people out with jobs, tickets, cheap cars, gas, clothing, meds, something of substance that will help.  A free dinner on Vets Day is hardly the sign of the gratitude they should be showing.
    ____

    Back to your point, I got out after Clinton was elected.  I benefited greatly, not just from leaving, which was my plan anyways, but the financing that was set-up beyond my GI Bill, was excellent.  I basically went to college free of charge and did not have to work, except summers.  As much as I hated the military, they took care of me after.

    I didn't see anything like the soldiers see today, and I still needed 9 months to decompress.  I can not imagine not having that net of security and feeling of appreciation.  And as much as people say this and that in regards to hireability, the fact is the military operates so completely different adjusting is hard even under the the most normal of circumstances.  This country's wealth class should be bending over backwards for these people with more that hollow words.

    Compared to what I did, real soldiers should get mountains more.  Even the medieval Lords recognized and lavished their soldiers, not today's Lords, they want to charge them another $50 for extra piece of luggage on their trip home from war or charge them 30% on their car note once they get there.  Just more souls to fleece.

    Parent

    Do they still get part of a pension (none / 0) (#72)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:33:08 AM EST
    with the buyout?I don't know any of the rules. I think your number is fair - after all, they don't get to collect unemployment, do they? Some people have gotten 99 months worth of that - I know it is not enough to live on usually, but I think the military people getting de facto laid off should get equal.

    Parent
    Possibly (none / 0) (#82)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:47:26 AM EST
    Having Friday martinis, I will hear more.  But possibly for those past 15yrs.  That would help.  That would help stabilize a family who had a soldier who dedicated a huge segment of their adult life and their adult employment lifespan to the service they have all given.

    We have a huge bunch of Colonels waiting to be baby Generals and a ton of baby Generals too.  In order for the Lts and the Cpts and the Majors to have a future and be able to be the force we will still need, some of those guys are going to have to do the right thing and get out.  Otherwise they completely lock up the flow.  After ten years of war I'm sure they all feel like they deserve to be a General, but we don't need them all, they have full retirements and I can almost promise you a really juicy job someplace for them.  Everyone can't be a David Petraeus :)  And seriously, what would we do with more than one.

    Parent

    Seems like giving these folks a well deserved (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:56:20 AM EST
    severance or pension would be a good stimulus package. Well worth letting the Bush tax cuts expire to pay for. hint hint, Obama.

    Parent
    Lovely idea (none / 0) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:11:41 PM EST
    I do hope our President works out how to manage this well.  He should go down in history in full glory.  He cleaned up the Iraq mess, he got bin Laden, he downsized the military coming out of wars.  Clinton maintained a large following of military even though he had to downsize it.  It can be done if the people have some options.  Offering buyouts seems very good to me too in that instead of pink slipping someone and turning your back on them you are allowing members of the force who may have better outside prospects than others to leave and move into those prospects with some compensation for the sacrifice.

    Part of the sternly worded new assignment we now come to understand is where the military is going to encourage people to get out who have made 20 years by making you work very hard every year you remain in :)  Sort of funny in a way, but smart too.  My husband sent his career manager a "What is up your butt" email, and that was the beginning of us understanding that the wheels have been in motion for the downsizing even before Obama officially announced it.

    Parent

    Did the part of whatever law they were arguing (none / 0) (#75)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:34:51 AM EST
    about that gave employers tax incentives for hiring vets get passed? I hope that helps.

    Parent
    I don't know (none / 0) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:48:10 AM EST
    Last I heard the Republicans were crapping on the troops on that one.

    Parent
    Would venture a SWAG that the drawdown (none / 0) (#108)
    by BTAL on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:17:21 PM EST
    program will follow the model from the Clinton era.  I retired a year early under that program based on the salary being pushed at me from a few software companies.   Then the cut off for retirement (with a 1% retired pay reduction for each year of early retirement) was at 15 years depending upon your job category.  Some had to wait closer to 20 to take early retirement.  Those that did (like myself) have the same retirement benefits as those that stayed 20+, just a reduced retirement monthly amount.

    For those between 10 and 15 (or qualifying year groups) were given a lump sum (or could be paid in payments over the course of 1 year IIRC) in the range of $10k and up to somewhere around $16k depending on years of service.   No other benefits (medical, life insurance, commissary, etc.) were provided.

    MT, how may years does your husband have?

    Parent

    We are way over, don't worry about us (none / 0) (#124)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:57:54 PM EST
    He is at 23 now, and he wants to retire out claiming W5 so they will ask for those three years there.  And they will be hard working years it looks like, but that's cool :)

    This was the lay of the land that was given to me this morning, basically what went down for you guys.  But we didn't know what the lump sum buyouts were for those in between 10 and 15.  Obama is going to have to do a lot better than that for those guys this go around.  If he doesn't he will destroy his cred and memory within the military and they have long long memories.  I had hoped to hear the lump sum buyout was around 30,000 for your go around.

    Parent

    What the hell happened.... (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:37:54 AM EST
    last night?  I unplug for the evening and I see things got very testy, which makes me sad.

    A friendly reminder for all my pals.  

    Me too (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:41:09 AM EST
    I was too stressed out about my car to read it all, but it makes me sad when the family argues. No need to get personal. We all have our opinions.

    Parent
    speaking of family (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by ZtoA on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:59:38 AM EST
    I used to watch two of my cousins get into it. One was always "positive" but had a back end sting. Like - Good News! (you're stupid), or Good News! (you don't count). The domineering cousin could always point to how rational and positive he was and the other cousin always understood and reacted to the putdowns and it infuriated him. He became more and more irrational and reactive. And that really pleased the domineering one. His main message really was the sting and his enjoyment of his brother's emotional pain. That was easy to see from the outside. Similar dynamic here.

    Parent
    Which is which? (none / 0) (#147)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:32:46 PM EST
    Hope the mechanic... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:05:34 PM EST
    don't run ya over the coals too badly pal.  My old Toyota is gonna go sooner rather than later...I hope she gives me one more year.

    And a belated very Happy Birthday...I missed that comment party.

    A song in the spirit of friendship...Take This Bread.

    Parent

    I did not go back and read it (none / 0) (#84)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:48:55 AM EST
    I will later. I heard that Jeff left, is that true?

    Parent
    Apparently (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:53:02 AM EST
    so. When you are sick, ABG becomes simply intolerable.

    Parent
    Not just sick (none / 0) (#96)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:05:14 PM EST
    Really REALLY sick
    and
    Without insurance and no hope of getting it anytime soon.

    ABG nees to STFU sometimes.

    Parent

    A_G pulled a "s_u_a_y. (none / 0) (#87)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:55:38 AM EST
    Mutual blame all around (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:03:03 PM EST
    when the facebook wall bashing approach arrives, walk away rather than type. Cookies and tea beats getting sucked into keyboard ninja strikes every time.

    Parent
    Life is so much simpler w/a limited (none / 0) (#98)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:06:13 PM EST
    # of facebook "friends."  

    I pretty much ignore ABG but have become virtually invested in jeff's travails.  

    Parent

    You are stuck with me ;-) (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:15:59 PM EST
    I don't let anybody go!

    Parent
    Ha. We are now joined at the hip! (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:28:54 PM EST
    John wanted to know if you have auto insurance.  I sd., she's a permissive user--although I know zip re Georgia law.  

    Parent
    Yep, I have insurance! No sweat there. (none / 0) (#157)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:41:14 PM EST
    I found that I have an extended warranty that I did get because the free Toyota warranty was so paltry. So the inspector comes to see the car on Tuesday and we will see what they come up with. I hope it gets fixed soon after that.

    They have to give me a loaner or cheap rental as part of the warranty too, so no sweat if the repairs are delayed past time when John needs the car.

    So all in all I am downgrading from crisis mode to pain in the a** mode - until they try to mess with me on the warranty.

    Parent

    Good news there. "We" have (none / 0) (#160)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:46:56 PM EST
    med. check-up today.  Not sure when the car will be driven by bro again.  

    Parent
    I thought that was today...hoping for good news (none / 0) (#161)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:49:29 PM EST
    I've been reminding myself my own problems are pretty easy to deal with.

    Parent
    Hey MT - This isn't you, is it? (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:21:12 PM EST
    "The Peni$ Mom".

    Sorta sounded like something you'd do ... :)

    I wish (none / 0) (#129)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    Not in the South....I might do it up North though.  Isn't that sad?  I do modify my behavior here because I get tired of being the outcast :)  My son's teacher this week even used a Bible reference to define a spelling word.  Josh came home and just vented.  He shouldn't have to have Bible references be a part of study in a public school.  His teacher is one of those people just dying to have it go down, daring people to call her out and throw a huge damned fit.  

    Parent
    Gotta pick your battles ... (none / 0) (#131)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:09:21 PM EST
    ... and limit them to the stuff that matters most.  Don't envy you, though.  I traveled through many areas of the rural south when I worked at DOJ.  Some pretty country in certain places, but I'd have serious issues living there, let alone raising kids.

    Parent
    What was the spelling word and what (none / 0) (#152)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:35:58 PM EST
    was the Bible reference?  

    Parent
    "she" being: (none / 0) (#177)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:14:25 PM EST
    His teacher is one of those people just dying to have it go down, daring people to call her out and throw a huge damned fit.


    Parent
    Favorite headline of the day (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:24:09 PM EST
    13 Iranians rescued from pirates in the North Arabian Sea by US Navy. Someone on the far right is probably complaining that we should have killed both parties.

    San Diego--a destroyer. Is this in these (none / 0) (#172)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:07:55 PM EST
    enlistees' job description?  LAT

    Parent
    i thought this was funny (none / 0) (#1)
    by fiver on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 09:38:00 PM EST
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=299749580054502&set=a.293639293998864.121791.20534445282 8349

    SITE VIOLATOR? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Peter G on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 10:25:02 PM EST
    it's an open thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by fiver on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 10:26:52 PM EST
    i thought anything goes. if i did anything wrong then sorry.

    Parent
    You must "link" not include (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 10:29:04 PM EST
    entire URL.  

    Parent
    yeah (none / 0) (#7)
    by fiver on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 10:30:20 PM EST
    not entirely sure why it didn't work since I just copied/paste.

    Let's try this instead.

    Parent

    OK You're right. That's very funny. (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 11:00:51 PM EST
    err (none / 0) (#8)
    by fiver on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 10:31:27 PM EST
    yeah, sorry, thought there was an auto-formatter that would make it a working link. now i know.

    Parent
    You may or may not find this interesting... (none / 0) (#4)
    by fiver on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 10:25:48 PM EST
    http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/local/120105-rockets-guard-kyle-lowry-charged-with-misdemeano r-battery

    Deborah Ruiz, an investigator with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, writes, "in that the victim was acting in the capacity of a referee during the game, she is considered a protected person. The suspect knowingly threw a basketball at her after the game ended for calls he didn't agree with. The victim and both witnesses believe that his intent was to hurt her and that he could have hurt anyone of them by his actions."


    It's that time of year (none / 0) (#9)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 10:48:47 PM EST
    My new years resolution to fully fund my IRA faster this year than last year.

    If anyone has any special insight into any Vanguard or Janus stock funds that might be worthy of my cheap cable, no Apple products, minimum cell phone, 35mpg car savings for the year I'm open to positive insight.

    Soooooo. You cut back on cable (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 11:01:55 PM EST
    but are an ace on football.  I just reinstated it for my injured, football-loving brother.  What's wrong with this picture?

    Parent
    Ace? (none / 0) (#12)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 11:06:48 PM EST
    I don't know anything about football other than the Gators and former Gators. If I wasn't at work I would have missed most every bowl game. There's no ESPN with my minimal cable.

    Luckily I like baseball on (free)radio.

    Parent

    Ha. You always have an answer for (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 11:12:12 PM EST
    my Tebow-centric questions.  (P.S.  My brother says he must be in front of TV for Pittsburgh/Denver game.  This is my chance to learn what he really thinks of Tebow!)  And yes, I enjoy free radio broadcasts of Pads games.  

    Parent
    My Sunday will revolve (none / 0) (#14)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 11:32:03 PM EST
    around 50% rooting against the degenerate Roethlisberger and 50% pulling for Tebow and the Broncos. The Tebow hating women of TL must be in quite a conundrum with this Roethlisberger/Tebow matchup. I can only assume they will all Tebowing this Sunday. (maybe not MT)

    Parent
    Don't have to go to every dance :) (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 07:16:30 AM EST
    What football game?  Is there a football game?

    Parent
    Well played MT (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:19:15 AM EST
    even on an Eeyore type day you can find a pair of rainbows in every closet :)

    Parent
    You be careful with those Janus people (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:17:00 AM EST
    They can be two-faced :)

    Parent
    It's not easy going one on one (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:34:38 AM EST
    with you in the morning. Your brain works faster than mine.  I choose the forward looking face with an eye to the positive future should I go with the god of beginnings. I'm a tigger today.  

    Parent
    Tiggers bounce ;) (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:01:28 PM EST
    Personally, I will be looking for ... (none / 0) (#16)
    by cymro on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:49:10 AM EST
    ... something that's actually interesting to watch, on another channel.

    Parent
    More Stratfor problems? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 08:07:55 AM EST
    It looks to me that at least one of their servers has perhaps been hacked again or maybe a previously hacked server has had a previously installed trojan activated in the past day.

    I've received the following email 6 times in the the past 6 hours... purportedly from george.friedman@stratfor.com

    Hello loyal Stratfor clients,

    We are still working to get our website secure and back up and running again as soon as possible.

    To show our appreciation for your continued support, we will be making available all of our premium content as a free service from now on.

    We would like to hear from our loyal client base as to our handling of the recent intrusion by those deranged, sexually deviant criminal hacker terrorist masterminds. Please fill out the following form and return it to me

    My mobile: 512-redacted
    My home phone: 512-redacted

    I've redacted the phone numbers, and there were also three links in the email that I've not included here that I will not click on. One to a youtube, one to a jpg file called butthurtreportform.jpg, and one to a .es url.

    All or any of the three could spread a virus or trojan.

    There is no "form" included in the email.

    Don't click the links in this email if you receive it.

    What does the message headers (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by BTAL on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:39:50 AM EST
    show as the source?

    Parent
    Here it is... (none / 0) (#90)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:57:16 AM EST
    Return-path: <root@zulu705.server4you.de>
    Envelope-to: redacted@antemedius.com
    Delivery-date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:43:44 -0600
    Received: from zulu705.server4you.de ([188.138.100.209])
        by server5.websitehostserver.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256)
        (Exim 4.69)
        (envelope-from <root@zulu705.server4you.de>)
        id 1RjA59-001g6h-Ly
        for redacted@antemedius.com; Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:43:43 -0600
    Received: from zulu705.server4you.de (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
        by zulu705.server4you.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7FA1BAF278
        for <redacted@antemedius.com>; Fri,  6 Jan 2012 14:36:43 +0100 (CET)
    Received: by zulu705.server4you.de (Postfix, from userid 0)
        id 72DAA1BAF2FE; Fri,  6 Jan 2012 13:33:52 +0100 (CET)
    To: redacted@antemedius.com
    Subject: Rate Stratfor's Incident Response
    From: george.friedman@stratfor.com
    Message-Id: <20120106132722.72DAA1BAF2FE@zulu705.server4you.de>
    Date: Fri,  6 Jan 2012 13:33:52 +0100 (CET)

    * the bolds are my redactions to try to (probably fruitlessly) reduce the amount of spam I get

    .de is the country code top-level domain for the Federal Republic of Germany. I don't know if Stratfor normally uses servers located in Germany or not - previous emails from them that I've received all show the return-path as .stratfor.com

    Parent

    Definitely spam/phishing email (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by BTAL on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:10:24 PM EST
    The message headers tell the tale.

    Since anonymous posted the email database online, there will be mountains of similar messages.

    Parent

    It looks that way, yes (none / 0) (#106)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:16:02 PM EST
    I'm curious about the links in it too, but I won't click them. Easy to embed a virus in a .jpg, for one thing, even if it is a real picture...

    Parent
    Anyone who knowngly clicks on a link (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by BTAL on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:18:48 PM EST
    in a spam/phishing email is a candidate for an Internet Darwin Award.

    Parent
    Lol! (none / 0) (#113)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:23:33 PM EST
    Curiosity killed the cat, I hear ;-)

    Parent
    That's a good policy, Donald. (none / 0) (#203)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 08:28:44 PM EST
    I hope you make backups, too...

    Parent
    The subject line on the email was (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 08:14:14 AM EST
    "Rate Stratfor's incident response"

    But it may have been sent with different subject lines at various times.

    Be very leery of any emails you receive that purport to be from Stratfor or Friedman. Look for misspellings, odd spellings, out of place CAPS, strange attachment or link names, etc - all of which are usually clues to spam.

    Parent

    Oh crap (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:07:41 AM EST
    I don't do email much these days.  I prefer a phone call and if things need to be emailed then I go fetch them.  Five years ago I used to read some STRATFOR, briefly had a subscription when I was so upset about Iraq.  They send me emails and articles all the time though, to woo you back into being a paying customer.  I haven't opened any in ages and thank God.

    I wonder if the military network was able to block it.  But then if it blocked it, wouldn't the IT people in the military have been aware of that on some level eventually?  What I know about IT would fit in a thimble.  I know it is extremely challenging working military IT, I know China is always trying to bust in and they are kept hopping 24 hours a day on that one alone.  So maybe they could miss it if they were blocking a STRATFOR Trojan.  Or maybe worse, the Trojan got through.  My mind reels now.  You have to have your military I.D. plugged into your computer when you are on the military net.  But I'm pretty sure you can read your STRATFOR at work on that net.  If this is all true, my head spins a bit.  I'm pretty sure people have read their STRATFOR while plugged into the military network, because our friend who subscribes....I don't think he computes much at home....only at work.

    Parent

    Thye're going to be awhile (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:13:11 AM EST
    disinfecting their servers, I think. If they even can with any degree of confidence.

    I'd be leery of even opening any files copied off of them. All they need is a brand new trojan that hasn't been identified and added to antivirus signature files to infect you.

    Parent

    Oh whew (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:17:37 AM EST
    Was thinking how grateful that I am that my husband only sends me things through gmail and not his AKO account, but he has sent me things out of that network that I have opened at home.  So who knows?  What I know about this stuff isn't worth much.

    Parent
    interesting (none / 0) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 08:45:21 AM EST
    On the heels of his strong performance in the Iowa caucuses, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum has moved into second place in the GOP presidential race, according to a new national poll.

    The poll, conducted by Rasmussen Reports a day after Mitt Romney won in Iowa by just eight votes, shows the former Massachusetts governor in the lead with 29 percent support, up from 17 percent in a Rasmussen poll released on Dec. 1. Santorum has 21 percent, up from 4 percent in the December poll.

    and they say he is raising about a million a day.
    interesting

    word (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 08:59:19 AM EST
    Santorum is not Herman Cain.  he is not Michelle Bachman or Newt Gingrich or Donald Trump.  he is not even Rick Perry.  he is serious guy.  whatever you think about his policies he is a smart guy.  he can stand toe to toe with anyone in a debate and he is a hardline conservative who won in a blue state.  he has the potential of having blue collar appeal in a way Romney never could or will.  he connects with people in a way Romney never will or ever could.  when Romney trys to "connect" its almost painful to watch.  Santorum is good on the trail.  I have been watching and I am impressed.  I actually think he could conceivably be a more serious threat to Obama than Romney.  with the caveat that I do not think either of them is a serious threat.

    just sayin

    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:02:18 AM EST
    I can't think of anyone more riduculous.

    Mr. Serious Quotes:

    One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country....

    What happened in America so that mothers and fathers who leave their children in the care of someone else -- or worse yet, home alone after school between three and six in the afternoon -- find themselves more affirmed by society? Here, we can thank the influence of radical feminism.

    The idea that the Crusades and the fight of Christendom against Islam is somehow an aggression on our part is absolutely anti-historical. And that is what the perception is by the American Left who hates Christendom. ...

    All the people who live in the West Bank are Israelis, they're not Palestinians. There is no 'Palestinian.' This is Israeli land.

    Would the potential attraction to Mormonism by simply having a Mormon in the White House threaten traditional Christianity by leading more Americans to a church that some Christians believe misleadingly calls itself Christian, is an active missionary church, and a dangerous cult?

    I don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money; I want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money.

    The question is -- and this is what Barack Obama didn't want to answer -- is that human life a person under the Constitution? And Barack Obama says no. Well if that person -- human life is not a person, then -- I find it almost remarkable for a black man to say, 'We're going to decide who are people and who are not people.'

    Is anyone saying same-sex couples can't love each other? I love my children. I love my friends, my brother. Heck, I even love my mother-in-law. Should we call these relationships marriage, too?

    I would argue yes, it does. ... That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It is one thing."

    How could anyone not take him seriously ??

    If you like him, fine, but don't use serious and smart in the same line, the man appeals to raw hate and deluded views of religion, nothing more.

    Parent

    "if I like him" (none / 0) (#133)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:11:20 PM EST
    youre funny.

    question, have you ever actually met a republican?

    Parent

    you and your whales and sunshine and stuff (none / 0) (#151)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:35:54 PM EST
    the rest of us have to live with these frikin crustaceans.

    Parent
    Well Captain... (none / 0) (#194)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:47:41 PM EST
    I figure anyone who gives the Mad Dog that much credit must support him....  I didn't call him serious or smart.

    Parent
    Santorum on the ticket (none / 0) (#39)
    by smott on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:34:10 AM EST
    May be a boost to keeping PA Blue for Obama

    Parent
    Sure would (none / 0) (#42)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:43:46 AM EST
    What does he bring to the table if he can't even deliver his own state?

    Parent
    Agreed. If Santorum is (none / 0) (#60)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:44:56 AM EST
    thought of as serious by other than extremist Evangelicals and, likely, the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, an even sorrier state of affairs exists than previously imagined.  David Brooks, "the sensible conservative", is having trouble with a Santorum candidacy, although his article (NYT, Jan 6) does vainly attempt to put a spit shine on the shoes caked with recently gained Iowa manure.   Santorum taking his baby's corpse home to pass around to the other children should be enough to give his candidacy a nervous laugh and a call to move on.

    Parent
    "sorrier state" (none / 0) (#135)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:14:59 PM EST
    sorry dan.  we are there.  Romney is being pushed farther and farther to the right.  is there actually any difference in any key position between Santorum and what Romney would say at this point?
    as said below, he is the person Romney is pretending to be.  but he is not pretending.  I will not flippantly ask you if you have ever met a republican because I believe you have.
    the current republican party is virtually in lockstep with him.  he is really the perfect candidate. for example which of his positions do you think the base of the republican party would have a problem with?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:22:44 AM EST
    if Santorum can put PA into play like some are saying then yes, he is a huge threat to Obama. I don't think Obama can get reelected without PA.

    Parent
    I liked what J Stewart said (none / 0) (#81)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:45:30 AM EST
    Santorum is the guy Romney is pretending to be.

    I think the crazy will come through given the big spotlight. But he will certainly get the religious right vote, which is a healthy chunk. Might not be the cakewalk Romney expected.  I still think he will be the nominee though. And would not be surprised to see Santorum as VP nom unless he totally self destructs, which is possible.

    Parent

    exactly right (none / 0) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:17:38 PM EST
    Romney may be able to muscle through but I am not sure at all.  the party is still the tea party.  they are sick of being told who to nominate by the John McCains of the world.
    you know what is going to be really interesting?  who Jim DeMint endorses.  can you see him endorsing Romney?

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#140)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:22:14 PM EST
    but I have to tell you that endorsing Santorum in SC isn't going to win Demint any fans either. There are a lot of people in SC who think Catholicism is as much a cult as Mormonism. Actually having to see Demint squirm between these two would be a lot of fun. Maybe he should just embrace his nickname Dimwit Demint and endorse somebody who's already dropped out.

    Parent
    I think that SC (none / 0) (#148)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:33:05 PM EST
    isn't the only place where a lot of Evangelical/Fundamentalist Protestants see Catholicism as, maybe not quite a "cult," but definitely suspect and not the "right kind" of Christian.  Having grown up Greek Orthodox, I used to get some sh!t from Evangelical-type acquaintances about Eastern Orthodoxy, as well.  Too "strange" for them.  I think that these types of Protestants may be willing to make common cause with Roman Catholics over such things as banning abortion and banning same-sex marriage, but at the end of the day, I wonder how many of them will go into the polling booth on Primary Election day and actually pull the lever for a Roman Catholic.

    Parent
    Actually (5.00 / 0) (#175)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:11:15 PM EST
    some of the older evangelicals see Catholicism as much a cult as they do Mormonism. It's not quite as prevalent in the younger member. I know what you're talking about. I'm an Episcopalian and I've been called "not a real Christian" whatever that means. I think it means that I don't believe 100% what the fundamentalist Southern Baptists believe therefore I can't be a "real" one. Episcopalians and Lutherans kind of fall into that same category down here. The Presbyterians and the Methodists are "tolerable" but not 100% right because the only ones that are 100% right down here are the Southern Baptists. It is so annoying and there is a point where you find out someone is a Baptist you just want to turn and run the other way as fast as you can.

    Parent
    you should swallow (none / 0) (#156)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:40:34 PM EST
    hard and watch yesterdays hardball.  Tweety in his closing rant explains how the congress of wingnuts meeting this weekend will, in fact, endorse a catholic.  they just have to decide which one.  no doubt it will be Santorum
    that will matter.  
    and speaking of DeMint.  that will also matter particularly in SC.  
    he is the dogfather of the teabaggers.  and I just saw the Santorum has surged to second place in SC as well as nationally.  

    Parent
    I guess that (none / 0) (#162)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:57:53 PM EST
    when push comes to shove, the hard-core Protestants might very well vote for a Catholic over a Mormon (after all, Catholicism has been around a long, long time- the Mormons are relative parvenus).  Mitt Romney has the added disadvantage of having lots of actions and words "on record" in the past that make him extremely suspect to the Evangelicals.  Santorum has been very consistent in his social (and other) conservatism.  I still think that Mitt has a good chance of winning the Republican Primary, and we have certainly seen other "surges" among Republicans that wound up fizzling out.  I do wonder, though, if no-one will emerge as the huge winner and it will wind up being a brokered Republican Convention.  In that case, will they be looking for a savior that has not thrown his/her hat in the ring yet?  And if so, who?  Jeb Bush?  Geez, this could get interesting.  Pass the popcorn- the Republicans are engaged in eating their own.

    Parent
    My brother, a FL voter, says Jeb (none / 0) (#166)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:01:26 PM EST
    won't be the last minute nominee.  Too many GOP voters dissatisfied with W.  I don't see it.  W seems quite liberal to me now.  

    What female of child bearing age will vote for a man who preaches birth control is evil?  

    Parent

    what female? (none / 0) (#171)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:07:07 PM EST
    it might surprise you but I know probably 20 personally.  leftie women do not understand that rock ribbed republican women - at least a good chunk of them - agree with him.

    Parent
    I sd. "women of child-bearing age." (none / 0) (#173)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:09:54 PM EST
    what age is your sample size?

    Parent
    my "sample size" (none / 0) (#180)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:16:57 PM EST
    would be my extended family.  but I can tell you that it is the pervasive feeling around here and in much of red america.  
    again the question.  do you actually know any of these people?

    Parent
    I haven't yet a woman who speaks (none / 0) (#184)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:21:00 PM EST
    English who is against birth control.  I do know a few devout practicing Catholic English-speaking women.  

    Parent
    but you do understand that (none / 0) (#186)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:27:07 PM EST
    devout practicing Catholic English-speaking

    does not equal republican whack job.  yes?

    Parent
    Of course. What percentage of (none / 0) (#187)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:30:16 PM EST
    Catholic voters fit that description?

    Parent
    I wouldnt know (none / 0) (#190)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:33:06 PM EST
    why does that matter.  I would imagine there are far more protestants in the base of the republican party.

    Parent
    Well, my "sample size" (none / 0) (#192)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:42:42 PM EST
    includes many of the people in my local Orthodox Church.  (My own extended family is quite a bit to the left politically.)  The people at church are all over the place when it comes to whom they are going to vote for in the Republican Primary (and, yes, I'm one of the very, very few Democrats or liberals in my parish community).  When push comes to shove, I'm not too sure about their votes in the Primary, but I wouldn't be surprised if they wind up voting for either Santorum or Ron Paul.  They're very leery about Romney.  Santorum's stance on birth control does not seem to bother them much, even though the Orthodox Church does not condemn birth control (granted, many of them are past child-bearing age).  Who the heck knows how this is going to play out?  I am reminded of the ancient Chinese curse:  "May you live in interesting times."

    Parent
    Saving Jeb for 2016 (none / 0) (#197)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:55:24 PM EST
    IMO (none / 0) (#170)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:05:17 PM EST
    its too late for a horses a$$ on a white horse.  it is what it is and that is beginning to dawn on them.  they are starting to realize it will be Romney or one of the other clowns.  and everything you say about Santorum is true.  he is the real deal.  and yes, I know quite a few of these people.  there is no problem - well very little problem - with voting for a catholilc.  particularly one like Santorum who has rock solid credentials.  there is a VERY big problem with voting for a guy whos grandfather fled the country to escape polygamy laws.

    Parent
    But, the disaffected Episcopalians, (none / 0) (#168)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:03:36 PM EST
    including non-celibate clergy, are being welcomed in the Catholic church in U.S.  The earth is moving beneath our very feet.  

    Parent
    We've had (none / 0) (#189)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:31:48 PM EST
    more than a few "disaffected Episcopalians" converting to Eastern Orthodoxy, as well.

    Parent
    Has the Greek church a stance re (none / 0) (#191)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:37:03 PM EST
    same sex marriage and/or a gay priest?  

    Parent
    Oh, they're (none / 0) (#195)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:49:07 PM EST
    very, very conservative.  No same sex marriage, and no "out" gay priest.  I imagine that they wouldn't necessarily have a problem with a celibate gay priest (who kept quiet about it), but we don't have too many non-married priests at the parish level.  Our priests are allowed to marry, although our bishops are not.

    Parent
    The Lutheran church where I was minister of (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:53:58 PM EST
    music called a "closeted" single man as minister.  Later he decided to out himself via a letter to the congregation including his resignation in a month.  Then he proceeded to preach each of those four Sundays on gay rights issues to this exceedingly aged congregation.  Very interesting.  

    Parent
    Good for him! (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 03:35:26 PM EST
    I love it!

    Parent
    According to a friend's (none / 0) (#198)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 03:01:44 PM EST
    very right wing brother, it is unamerican to elect a Mormon as president.

    It never ceases to amaze me how much of the U.S. Constitution is considered unamerican by these folks.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#202)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 03:44:51 PM EST
    It amazes me, too.  Apparently, they have never actually read the U.S. Constitution.  Or, if they have (doubtful), their reading comprehension is very, very seriously lacking.

    Parent
    you actually think DeMinted (none / 0) (#158)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:41:25 PM EST
    cares about fans

    Parent
    Is Helen Mirren going to play (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:18:52 AM EST
    EVERY powerful female leader that England/Great Britain has ever had :)?

    Nope - Meryl Streep is playing Thatcher! (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:29:25 AM EST
    Oh of course (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:34:23 AM EST
    I missed the real picture...I just saw a trailer, Helen's the Queen again and Meryl is Thatcher.  I thought Helen was Thatcher, and because Helen has been the Queen so many times it never occurred to me that someone needed to play the Queen in all of that :)

    Helen is the Queen of England again :)

    She's been the Queen of England in front of more people than a Queen of England ever has been :)

    Parent

    I guess Helen could not play both parts! (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 11:36:51 AM EST
    Meryl is a good backup plan ;-)

    That is funny. it is like Michael Sheen, who will be playing Tony Blair in every movie made.

    Parent

    Sort of funny too (none / 0) (#93)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:01:52 PM EST
    Helen Mirren is to English acting as Meryl Streep is to ___.  I've always thought that no female American actress can really match Meryl.

    I remember when I was in high school trying to get in to see the French Lieutenant's Woman.  It was considered too naughty for a 15 year old, and I was trying to get any one of my friends to try to act old enough with me and try to get in.  Nobody wanted to really see it but me though.  They didn't get it, they didn't feel it.  Even after seeing it they didn't get it :)  I still love that movie because it makes me feel like I'm fifteen again every time I see it.

    Parent

    I hurried to finish the book and saw the (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:30:46 PM EST
    movie the same day.  Not a good idea.  Loved the book and love Streep, and, of course, Jeremy Irons.  

    Parent
    I frequently think that. But more so (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:38:28 PM EST
    re movies or plays that morph into musicals.  Think "Goodbye Girl."  

    Parent
    I loved it too. Very moody. (none / 0) (#95)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:05:12 PM EST
    I was a little older than that - I forget who I went to see it with.

    Anyway, she really is in a class of her own.

    Parent

    saw two great Mirren movies yesterday (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:19:32 PM EST
    Red and The Passion of Ayn Rand

    Parent
    oh and I also DVRed (none / 0) (#164)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:01:07 PM EST
    "The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and her Lover"

    but I have not watched it yet.  I saw it a long time ago.  I love Greenaway and particularly that movie.

    Parent

    Joran van der Sloot (none / 0) (#57)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:33:25 AM EST
    expected to plead guilty to all counts in Peru as his trial begins.

    A little (none / 0) (#58)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:35:04 AM EST
    more

    LIMA, Peru -- In a last-minute defense strategy change, Joran van der Sloot is expected to plead guilty to all the charges against him in connection with the killing of a Peruvian woman, his lawyer told CNN Friday.

    The original plan going into the trial, which was set to begin Friday, was to admit to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores, but to fight more stringent charges that could land him more time in prison, attorney Luis Jimenez said.

    Jimenez said the intention of the new strategy is to give a "sincere confession," which under Peruvian law can qualify him for a more lenient sentence.



    Parent
    New post on this (none / 0) (#163)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:00:02 PM EST
    If loveed is reading this, (none / 0) (#119)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:44:48 PM EST
    this one's for you, sweetie.  The Boston Globe endorsed John Huntsman for the Republican Primary.  Yes, the largest newspaper in the state whose governor used to be Mitt Romney, endorsed John Huntsman.  I don't know if that will make much difference to the Republicans voting in the Primary, but I had to laugh at that one.   ;-)

    What is the other (none / 0) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:00:32 PM EST
    Boston paper? The conservative one? Have they endorsed yet? I don't know that it's going to make much of a difference though. IIRC, the Arkansas paper didn't endorse Bill Clinton for President. I imagine that Romney's not going to carry MA anyway either.

    Parent
    You know, I lived in Boston at one time, (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:25:59 PM EST
    and have visited frequently over the years.  I have never once read the Boston Herald (in times past, the Herald Traveler, Record American, and iterations thereof).  In fact, I don't know anyone who has ever paid any attention to it whatsoever.  OTOH, I run in fairly liberal circles.  (When we lived in, and when we visit, New York, we didn't/don't read the New York Post, either.)
    Yes, I don't think that the Globe's endorsement for the Republican Primary is going to make any difference to Republicans- most of them will just take it to mean that, because the Globe endorsed him, Huntsman is too "liberal" for them.  I just thought that it was amusing, and a slap in the face towards Romney.
     

    Parent
    I was interviewed by the herald (5.00 / 0) (#169)
    by CST on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:04:39 PM EST
    the other day about Occupy Boston.

    It didn't show up in print.  That's the only time in my life I've ever read the Herald beyond the headlines.  It's a glorified tabloid.

    Today the front page was all about Joe Kennedy III (they are not fans) who is running for Barney's old seat.

    But this question made me curious so I checked it out a bit.  I didn't see an official endorsement but they are decidedly not Paul or Santorum fans.  In fact, the article on Santorum was downright angry.  Romney seems like a mixed bag but the consensus pick.  Nothing on Huntsman that I saw.  Grant you, this is all in only about 10 minutes of me browsing.

    Parent

    The Romney vs. MA thing (5.00 / 0) (#181)
    by CST on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:16:58 PM EST
    is personal.

    He spent his last year as governor traveling around the country trashing MA as a bunch of out of touch liberal demons.

    And this is before he left the office.  Needless to say, that didn't go over well.  The herald might be able to forgive that somewhat, because they kind of think the same thing.  The globe, not so much.  Romney wasn't elected by just the Herald readers, or he never would've been elected.

    As an aside, the Santorum piece I read in the Herald made my respect for them go from 0 to 1.  Specifically they were pissed at the liberal culture/victim blaming for the Catholic Church scandal.  That was a really big deal around these parts and any deflection of blame from the place where it belongs is not going to fly.

    Parent

    A bit much, MT (pls try reading quotes provided) (none / 0) (#122)
    by christinep on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 12:55:40 PM EST


    More flower throwing and cheering again in Iraq (none / 0) (#127)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    Rockets hit Green Zone as Iraq marks Army Day

    Rockets were fired against Baghdad's Green Zone as Iraq's military marked its anniversary with a parade Friday, a day after the country suffered its worst attacks since August and weeks after US troops left.
    [snip]
    In Baghdad, insurgents fired three rockets against the heavily-fortified Green Zone as Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki presided over a huge military parade to mark the 91st anniversary of the founding of Iraq's armed forces.

    The rockets hit the outer edge of the Green Zone, home to the US embassy and parliament, at 12:25 pm (0925 GMT) and did not cause any casualties, a senior intelligence official said on condition of anonymity.

    The noise caused by the rockets exploding could be heard from inside the grounds where the parade was taking place, an AFP journalist said.

    more, at RawStory...



    Are you aware jeff states he has (none / 0) (#144)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:27:27 PM EST
    prostate cancer, cannot have surgery because he has no medical insurance, and is in extremely poor health?  Were you frightened of his challenge?

    Frustration (none / 0) (#153)
    by vicndabx on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:36:27 PM EST
    is one thing, that still does not excuse his behavior.

    Parent
    Hey, this is a criminal defense blog! (none / 0) (#155)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:39:24 PM EST
    Good one (none / 0) (#183)
    by vicndabx on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:19:49 PM EST
    :)

    Let's represent all defendants equally then.

    Parent

    Can't say... (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:45:09 PM EST
    I get the ire ABG draws from some.  I just accept he is interested in different angles than I...the polls, the reports, the re-election of Obama...where I'm more interested in the human elements related to politics and policy.  So we debate political correctness instead and get along;)

    I love Jeff like a brother, though we've never met in real life...I think, in light of his plight, taking it personal can be excused.  I wouldn't dare speak for him so I won't.

    I remember way back when during heated Iraq War debates when JLvngstn and PPJ got into and there was a similar "mano y mano" challenge...they got over it and became blog-buds. I would hope we could see a repeat of that...fwiw.


    Parent

    Does that mean I must read ABG? (none / 0) (#185)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:22:31 PM EST
    question for the Obama is done for crowd (none / 0) (#159)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 01:44:47 PM EST
    why do you imagine all the serious republicans sat out this season?

    do you think they all just suddenly thought "ah hell, I really dont care about being president"?

    do you think they altruistically step aside and give the second string occupants of the clown car a shot?

    how would you explain it?

    Even though I don't believe Obama is (none / 0) (#165)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:01:23 PM EST
    necessarily done-for, can I take a stab at your questions?

    First, who would you consider to be a serious Republican?  Someone more identified ideologically with what we used to know as Rockefeller Republicans? Someone sane, in other words.

    Second, is it possible that serious Republicans are hoping the 2012 election will be the death knell for the Tea Party, and they won't have that to deal with in 2016?

    Third, if I were a serious Republican (and this applies to serious Dems, too), perhaps serving in the Congress, why would I want to beat myself up on the campaign trail when I probably already have some nice, cushy, post-term job waiting for me in the private sector?

    Fourth, is it possible that serious Republicans have already figured out that another Obama term is four more years of getting Republican fiscal, social and national security/foreign policy without having to do anything more than oppose everything that comes out of the WH?

    Finally, is it possible that serious Republicans believe that the path to the WH will be easier in 2016, when there is no Democratic incumbent, and so are just biding their time until then?

    More questions, but that's my take on yours!

    Parent

    not going to go point by point (none / 0) (#178)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:14:27 PM EST
    I will just say; no politician, think Christie, EVER actually believes they are "not ready".  the believe they were born ready.  and on the subject of him and his Rockefellerism, he would have had the support of enough of the teaparty leaders to make it happen.

    no politician is ever going to "wait" another 4 years if they believe they can win now.

    and surely you do not actually believe any pol is going to say, "gosh, it just so hard to run.  I think I will just let Michelle Bachman run and hope for Sec of Def"

    as for this:

    Finally, is it possible that serious Republicans believe that the path to the WH will be easier in 2016, when there is no Democratic incumbent, and so are just biding their time until then?

    THAT is exactly my point.

    Parent

    The fact (none / 0) (#167)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:03:21 PM EST
    that the "serious" Republicans sat out this election doesn't mean anything really because that's the same thing the D's did in '92 and how did that work out? I think it has more to do with the fact that beltway mentality is pro incumbent whether it's a strong incumbent or a weak one.

    I'm not willing to bet 100% against even Santorum winning the presidency because after George W. Bush won it, I'm on the belief that any clown can grift the electorate enough into voting for them.

    Parent

    "how did that work out?" (none / 0) (#174)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:10:10 PM EST
    how it worked out is that the guy NO ONE expected to win won.  Clinton.  who, the argument could be made, is the democratic yin to Santorums yang

    Parent
    Precisely (none / 0) (#179)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:15:18 PM EST
    and that's why I'm not willing to say 100% that Santorum CAN'T win.

    Of course, if Santorum did win the presidency, it would be the absolute end of evangelical involvement in politics because there would be NONE of this playing both sides of the fence on social issues with the GOP.

    Parent

    just to be clear (none / 0) (#182)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:18:11 PM EST
    IMO Santorum will never win the presidency.  but he may very well win the nomination.

    Parent
    I'm not a fan (none / 0) (#205)
    by sj on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 08:54:59 PM EST
    of O's but I don't think he's done for.  But since you invite speculation...

    Maybe because their goals are already being met and they see no reason to intervene at this point?  Better to wait for a continuation in four years.

    Since you invite speculation.

    Parent

    Thread closed, new one (none / 0) (#188)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 02:31:42 PM EST
    is here.