Second Presidential Debate Live Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2012
Posted on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 07:25:41 PM EST
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First, the good news, USA mens soccer team leads 3-1 over Guatemala. Look good to qualify for the next round. But Germany blew a 4-0 lead today so, as Yogi said, it's not over till it's over.

My Yanks? Ah, my Yanks. Do you believe in miracles? Here's hoping we can beat the best pitcher of his generation, Justin Verlander, while mired in a team wide slump. Hope springs eternal.

Meanwhile, in other news, there is a debate tonight that could very likely decide who will lead our country for the next 4 years. But other than that, no big deal. Live blog to commence at 9. It'll be on the flip once the debate starts.

LIVE BLOG

Obama: "I'm going to kick your ass tonight!"

First question - JOBS;

Romney wants to help you afford college - I LOOOOVEE Pell Grants!!

"I know what it takes!!! But I can't tell you what that is.

Obama- Intent on being more energetic. Seems nervous.

Energy level much better for Obama.

Crowley follows up and Romney still has no answer for what he would do - oh the 5 point plan.

Romney "I did want Detroit to go bankrupt."

What Romney said simply is not true."

Good explanation of the Bain plan. Good going back to the Bush way.

Certainly a better Obama tonight. Conveying that he in fact does want to be President.

Romney's energy seems down in this debate. Maybe that works this time.

That's gotta be a lie. No way the President said if you build a coal plant you;ll go bankrupt.

Drill, baby, drill!

Nice balance on the "not true." Good anecdote on the coal plant.

Good moment for Obama. Romney looks flustered.

Tactical mistake by Romney to move beyond generalities.

Pretty good Obama tonight I must say.

Iowa and wind energy, nice hit.

Candy Crowley decided to change the debate format tonight. Pretty funny.

TAXES - Middle class tax es need to be reduced, but what about the question?

Who in the middle class makes interests and capital gains?

Ok answer, but frankly Obama did not answer the lady's question and missed a chance. A single but should have been a double at least.

5 point plan! Drink!

Nice answer from Obama on the arithmetic.

Candy Crowley decided to run her own debate. Funny as sh*t.

I really detest Romney.

Obama hitting Romney on the women's issues (family issues). Personally, I love this answer.

Why are you like Bush? I wrote that question.

Funny, Romney on why I am not like Bush.

Please President, say the effing word BUSH!!!!

Effing Obama. totally missing this fat pitch. I can not believe it. I am so pissed I do not know what to say.

Effing idiot.

Finally.

Hated Obama's answer on the Bush question. He totally missed the fattest pitch of the debate.

That was a pretty good answer.

This was Romney's best answer.

IMMIGRATION - Romney. Word salad. What about the wall? Romney lies about his support for Arizona law. That is a flat out lie.

WTF? Cayman Islands?

Obama feeling good now.

Good answer by Obama on Benghazi.

Good for you Obama.

Wow! Candy just corrected Romney.

The moment of the debate just happened. Shocking that Romney got that wrong.

< Pre-Debate Open Thread | Romney Shows His Dominant Trait: Rudeness >

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Second Presidential Debate Live Thread | 214 comments (214 topical)

Romney knows what it takes... (5.00 / 4) (#3)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:05:45 PM EST

but he's not going to tell you.

: I n some ways reminds me of (5.00 / 1) (#140)
by cal1942 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:54:06 PM EST

Nixon's 'secret plan' to end the Vietnam War.
Secret plan turned out to be more of the same in stepped up combat operations to no avail.

: Well, as Ann Romney said: (5.00 / 3) (#201)
by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:14:49 PM EST

"We've given you people everything you need to know."

Pretty short on the "how" Mitt. (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by magster on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:05:58 PM EST

Yes, this is the guy. Keep it up (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:07:16 PM EST

: Red Bull about 20 minutes ago? (none / 0) (#15)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:08:18 PM EST

More energy, for sure.

: 100 percent better than last time (none / 0) (#18)
by Democratic Cat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:08:51 PM EST

Pres. Obama seems pretty ocnfident, gave some specifics, seems much better.

Obama was good in (5.00 / 3) (#21)
by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:09:39 PM EST

question number 1. Engaged and focused.

Mitt seems like a snake oil (5.00 / 2) (#24)
by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:10:43 PM EST

salesman

This may be a bad format for him since he doesn't communicate well on a personal level.

On NPR just b/4 the debate, some (none / 0) (#32)
by oculus on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:13:22 PM EST

commenter stated Romney has done 100 townhalls in this campaign.


: Yeah! (none / 0) (#148)
by cal1942 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:55:41 PM EST

Among crowds overwhelmingly Republican.

Hey, jimppj asked a question! (5.00 / 2) (#29)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:12:27 PM EST

Not the last decade... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by kdog on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:13:43 PM EST

the economic policies of the last 30 years Mr. President.

A good jab though
.

Sure, Mitt - let's just drill, mine and (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:16:40 PM EST

extract the hell out of all our federal land.

Sounds great.

crawford shut down rommney (5.00 / 1) (#41)
by DFLer on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:16:52 PM EST

when he tried to have his way, and went on to her next question...good

Canadian tar sands oil is not cheap. (5.00 / 1) (#42)
by caseyOR on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:17:37 PM EST

It is dirty and expensive, as is the oil from N. Dakota.

So cue both of them to cheer on the Keystone pipeline.

"Now, suddenly, you're a big champion of (5.00 / 1) (#45)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:18:08 PM EST

coal!"

Good one.

Romney the Bully (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:19:20 PM EST

A truly unlikeable not-quite-human.

: I'm in the other room (5.00 / 1) (#53)
by nycstray on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:21:02 PM EST

so I don't have to look at him! Listening is bad enough. :D
"You'll get your chance in a minute"?! OMG, I really don't think I could say that to a POTUS . . .

Romney looks like he is chasing Obama (5.00 / 2) (#49)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:19:33 PM EST

he looks a bit pathetic.

Whoa, Romney get away from Obama man! (5.00 / 4) (#50)
by Dr Molly on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:20:06 PM EST

Way too aggressive

Jesus, let the people ask their questions, (5.00 / 1) (#51)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:20:37 PM EST

or get out the boxing gloves and let them go at it. Lots of tension and animus here - I think Romney's baiting Obama, and hoping to make his show anger.

: With the gloves on (none / 0) (#152)
by cal1942 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:57:46 PM EST

my money's on Obama.

Is Romney going to have his back to the audience (5.00 / 1) (#52)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:20:41 PM EST

For the rest of the debate?

And also, idiot about gas prices.

WTF, Candy - this isn't supposed to be (5.00 / 1) (#56)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:21:55 PM EST

your show - I bet the commission people are apoplectic.

Two questions from "the people" and 20 minutes gone.

yeah annd she's to make MR shut the frack up (5.00 / 1) (#84)
by DFLer on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:35:02 PM EST

so they can ask their questions,,,he doesn't care, privileged bully SOB


: Exactly my impression (5.00 / 1) (#159)
by cal1942 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:59:34 PM EST

he seems to think he's entitled to an extra shot.
Stomach turning.

wow, Romney is really an (5.00 / 2) (#57)
by ZtoA on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:22:21 PM EST

a$$hole. And creepy!

: I was going to go with di** (5.00 / 2) (#68)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:26:52 PM EST

But I'll take your word.

I don't remember paying a buck 86... (5.00 / 2) (#60)
by kdog on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:23:37 PM EST

4 years ago.

Mitt is coming off as totally full of it...

: He was channeling a certain Jim ;) (none / 0) (#63)
by nycstray on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:25:21 PM EST

Wow Mitt's an a$$hole (5.00 / 3) (#62)
by Democratic Cat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:24:08 PM EST

I mean, I knnew that, but wow.

Romney looks mean tonight. (5.00 / 4) (#65)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:25:31 PM EST

Maybe he does not like low altitude.

: He is mean. This is the man who put (5.00 / 4) (#72)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:27:49 PM EST

Seamus on the roof of the family station wagon, remember?

Good question for Romney (5.00 / 2) (#66)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:26:20 PM EST

on deductions... challenging him specifically. And he's answers with pablum on the middle class. I think this qualifies as "working folks on Main Street." So, I'm taking a drink.

Pick a number, any number! $25,000! You get to design your own tax credits! It's a fun new game!

Ha, but thank god he is not going to tax (5.00 / 3) (#73)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:27:55 PM EST

the capital gains of the middle class. Lol.


: LOL (5.00 / 2) (#171)
by cal1942 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:03:16 PM EST

talk about out of touch. This ranks with Charlie Gibson's typical middle class $250,000 income.
Or when Chainsaw Al Dunlap justified chopping off thousands of workers by saying he'd increased the value of their portfolios.
Sort of like 'let them eat cake.'

: yeah, that sure makes a difference. (none / 0) (#151)
by womanwarrior on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:57:09 PM EST

what all two dollars and fifty cents of them?

Voucher system for tax deductions! (none / 0) (#93)
by oculus on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:37:29 PM EST

But what about the "undecided" lady's question re mortgage interest and charitable deductions.


Interest from a bank? (5.00 / 2) (#69)
by kdog on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:27:01 PM EST

Tax free 1.5%...dude is clowning.

did anyone catch Mitt said he'll (5.00 / 1) (#70)
by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:27:30 PM EST

bring back manufacturing jobs over 8 years? That's the best he can do? How does that help people now.

Romney - (5.00 / 2) (#71)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:27:37 PM EST

"You get a car, you get a car, you get a car, you get a car!!" on tax policy (reference).

: But will they get a car elevator? (5.00 / 2) (#76)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:29:19 PM EST

He didn't say... cagey Mitt.

Cause the taxes on my savings account (5.00 / 5) (#75)
by caseyOR on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:29:19 PM EST

are so burdensome. Interest is what .10% now? And how many in the middle class pay much in capital gains? Or pay on their investments? Do people with 401Ks pay taxes on those earnings (if there are any profits) every year?

The 99% owns so little of the investments in this country that Romney's claims are empty.

Autocratic Mitt:"You heard what I said." (5.00 / 1) (#80)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:32:13 PM EST

Don't challenge me!

Oh, but he cares about small business. Something like 95% of small businesses have ten employes or fewer!

He keeps talking about "energy independence for North America." Has anyone asked the Canadians how they feel about Mitt's plan for thier country's natural resources?

"You wouldn't have taken such a (5.00 / 2) (#82)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:34:39 PM EST

sketchy deal!"

Zing!

Obama (5.00 / 1) (#83)
by ZtoA on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:34:45 PM EST

had some good debate prep! he is nailing it! whew! And he seems to be getting under Romney's skin. :) (yes, this rates an emoji)

: The arrogance is coming out. (none / 0) (#85)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:35:37 PM EST

Up is down (5.00 / 1) (#86)
by Democratic Cat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:35:41 PM EST

Trust me, of course they add up.

He's killing him on the deficit baloney too (5.00 / 2) (#87)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:35:54 PM EST

Obama has returned. The numbers don't add up. Of course they add up Candy, because I said so.

Romney is coming off (5.00 / 3) (#88)
by fishcamp on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:36:04 PM EST

as a whiney, elitist, bully boy with mixed up numbers and facts. just saying.

: agree completely (5.00 / 2) (#95)
by DFLer on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:38:08 PM EST

what a jerk

"Of course they add up" (5.00 / 2) (#89)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:36:44 PM EST

I think we're seeing more of the real Romney than we have, and that's not going to work well for him.

I'd love for Obama to hit him on his years as a vulture capitalist, bleeding huge amounts of money out of businesses.

Obama's good on MItt's sketchy plans (5.00 / 2) (#90)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:36:49 PM EST

on balancing the budget. He got some good prep this week. Mitt say's Obama's characterization o fhis plan is "foreighn"... but doesn't say what his plan really is, even though pressed by Crowley. And she needs to shut him up now.

MR: I ran businesses and balanced the books (5.00 / 2) (#92)
by DFLer on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:37:28 PM EST

LIAR.....bailed out always, including the Olympics

: And of course, all governors HAVE TO (none / 0) (#96)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:38:27 PM EST

balance state budgets. It's the law.

Bully won't play by the rules again (5.00 / 4) (#94)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:37:31 PM EST

What a jacka$$

He's unbelievably rude. (5.00 / 5) (#102)
by Dr Molly on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:41:29 PM EST

Man, at the beginning, he was just about stalking Obama on the stage. I was ready for the police to come out or something. He's repugnant.


Agree and it's a great description (5.00 / 1) (#116)
by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:45:43 PM EST

Rude.

He seems like an impatient man who thinks he's always right and doesn't tolerate others' opinions.


: This is what we get (5.00 / 3) (#194)
by cal1942 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:10:44 PM EST

from a privileged person of questionable morals.

Mitt Romney (5.00 / 2) (#97)
by CST on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:38:28 PM EST

THIS HOUSE IN MA THINKS YOU ARE AN UTTER @SSHOLE AND IF YOU THROW US UNDER THE BUS ONE MORE TIME... You couldn't get a dog to vote for you here. Maybe some rats, but no dog.

Please don't kill your TV... (5.00 / 1) (#98)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:39:53 PM EST

cause you sound like you might have something in your hand you'd like to throw at Bully Boy.


its hard to remember sometimes (5.00 / 2) (#177)
by CST on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:05:21 PM EST

That its not my tvs fault I put this douchebag on the screen. There are no words to describe how much I despise him though. My state learned the hard way, he LIES SO MUCH. And then he throws you under the bus on his way out the door. I hate it more because we elevated him to this position, and he uses us when he wants to but f*cks us all the while.


: I feel your pain (5.00 / 1) (#195)
by nycstray on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:11:27 PM EST

I lived in NYC when "Rudy" was around. Thank Gawd he crashed and burned last cycle.
{passes CST a glass of chilled Cali Chard}

Roxy! won't vote for him (5.00 / 3) (#100)
by nycstray on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:41:22 PM EST

but she would be more than happy to "trickle down" on him :)


oh now you like us here again (5.00 / 2) (#101)
by CST on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:41:24 PM EST

Binders full of women. What a jerk.

: yeah and what does that have to do with (5.00 / 1) (#114)
by ZtoA on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:45:16 PM EST

the issue? Some stupid on-and-on about his personal little moment. Obama is using Hillary's lines about women's rights. Good for him.

: LOL. Great Headline in tomorrow's news: (none / 0) (#109)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:42:54 PM EST

"Romney Promises Binder Full of Women, If Elected."

Pres. Was good in describing Ledbetter cure. (5.00 / 3) (#104)
by oculus on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:41:38 PM EST

LOL (5.00 / 4) (#108)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:42:22 PM EST

"binders of women" first of all that's hilarious, second of all, fairly certain I saw that in Big Love.

Yes- I was hoping he would tie health (5.00 / 1) (#110)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:43:38 PM EST

and planned parenthood and contraceptives into the women's economic discussion.

In Romney's America (5.00 / 2) (#117)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:46:02 PM EST

You don't need contraception. He will hunt you down at home and hire you, and then wait for you to come to work whenever you can swing it.


: But you can leave before 7 pm! (5.00 / 2) (#126)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:48:58 PM EST

Now he's going to come find me (5.00 / 1) (#111)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:44:26 PM EST

Even when I don't turn in an application. He's going to hunt me down, give me a job, and then it almost sounds like I don't even need to show up for work. What sort of rube does Romney think I am?

: Lock your door (5.00 / 1) (#118)
by Democratic Cat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:46:44 PM EST

Obama's doing well on the issues (5.00 / 2) (#113)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:44:46 PM EST

of what matters to women, and how those issues affect the economy.

whiney asshole ..."that was supposed (5.00 / 1) (#119)
by DFLer on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:47:28 PM EST

to be my turn whaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Excuse me, but this is a bunch of malarkey (5.00 / 1) (#121)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:48:12 PM EST

I guess Bush didn't have a 5-point plan, (5.00 / 1) (#122)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:48:26 PM EST

so Bully Boy is just sooooo different.

Just segues into Talking Point No. Whatever.

Ugh.

Romney came through small business... (5.00 / 1) (#124)
by Dadler on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:48:38 PM EST

...like that camel through that other small business.

"I came through small business" (5.00 / 2) (#125)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:48:42 PM EST

my jaw literally dropped open during that one. What did he deliver a pizza once?

he understands how hard it is to start (5.00 / 2) (#127)
by CST on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:49:01 PM EST

A small business. That's why he asked daddy for help.

Dodging the Bush question... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
by kdog on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:49:14 PM EST

now "new technology"?

China? That's his job creation resume.

Trade agreements?

I don't think this lady is buying it...who could?

He's got stiff talking points and nothing else.

Obama's doing great. (5.00 / 1) (#130)
by Dr Molly on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:50:26 PM EST

However, Mitt is a committed and effective liar. Which still makes me nervous.

: Well, it's exhausting to debate a sociopath (5.00 / 1) (#136)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:53:05 PM EST

Obama's getting a little tired. But Mitt's still not looking too good. ANd he's doing a good job answering a stupid question from that last guy.

: He seems (5.00 / 1) (#139)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:54:03 PM EST

more conscientious on time than Romney does. And has more poise.

: yeah but he doesn't look so good (none / 0) (#132)
by DFLer on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:51:27 PM EST

should have used the man-tan again

Obama good on how Mitt and Bush different (5.00 / 1) (#131)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:51:19 PM EST

Zing.

Careful Obama (5.00 / 1) (#135)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:52:21 PM EST

this guy is hurting

I like how Obama brings back answers... (5.00 / 1) (#141)
by magster on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:54:17 PM EST

... to prior questioners to show he still remembers them.

Loved the Bush answer from Obama. (5.00 / 1) (#143)
by indy in sc on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:54:24 PM EST

Obama showing where W. was better than what Romney is promising was a stroke of genius.

Looking at it from the point of (5.00 / 2) (#149)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:56:09 PM EST

view of "even Bush wasn't as big a whack-a-doodle as this guy," it works - didn't strike me that way at first, but I see it now.


: I liked it because it was a surprising twist on it (none / 0) (#158)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:58:45 PM EST

I hated it (none / 0) (#144)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:54:54 PM EST

me too (none / 0) (#147)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:55:41 PM EST

I thought it was an effective way... (none / 0) (#157)
by magster on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:58:20 PM EST

for Obama to make the point that Romney is more of a whack-a-doodle than even Bush was.


Does this comment constitute (none / 0) (#163)
by oculus on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:00:26 PM EST

"live blogging"?


: Oops. Just scrolled up. Sorry. (none / 0) (#207)
by oculus on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:17:31 PM EST

I completely disagree. (none / 0) (#181)
by indy in sc on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:06:59 PM EST

I'm thinking about the mythical "undecided voter", who, if you're still undecided at this point, you probably don't have a strong opinion against Bush. Having Obama defend Bush with Romney leaving him twisting in the wind on the very day Bush re-endorsed him is powerful.

I think this was Obama saying--you know that Bush wasn't a good prez, but even he didn't support the radical things that Mitt Romney does.

People intuitively know that Obama inherited a bad situation, but they still don't want to hear him actually blame Bush.


you mean you can't afford it (5.00 / 1) (#145)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:55:18 PM EST

Mr. Cayman accounts

Gawd, Mitt is just a creepy thing (5.00 / 1) (#146)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:55:39 PM EST

Mean, mean, mean. Nothing but criticism, and no new ideas of his own.

Mitt is sooooo patronizing (5.00 / 1) (#153)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:57:47 PM EST

I just loathe him. Time for a drink.

: cheers! I'll join you (none / 0) (#174)
by DFLer on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:04:12 PM EST

Really, Mitt? You're going Reagan (5.00 / 1) (#154)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:57:58 PM EST

on us?

Holy moly.

: Yes, that's worth a drink or 3 :) (none / 0) (#162)
by nycstray on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:00:12 PM EST

We welcome legal immigrants (5.00 / 1) (#161)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:59:42 PM EST

and want to deport their children.

Crowley not in control (5.00 / 1) (#176)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:05:01 PM EST

And Mitt likes the AZ law, it's "a model for the nation."

: Was Romney running all over (none / 0) (#210)
by oculus on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:20:39 PM EST

Lehrer as he is trampling Crowley?

Going back to my word. Romney is a di** (5.00 / 1) (#185)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:07:51 PM EST

OMG Romney is a horrible, (5.00 / 2) (#186)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:08:00 PM EST

aggressive, mean, rude ass.

: Darn right he's awful! (none / 0) (#193)
by the capstan on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:10:08 PM EST

Turned it off and following comments on blog instead.

: not too hard to imagine him... (none / 0) (#197)
by Dadler on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:12:39 PM EST

...back in prep school terrorizing the "less popular" kids. As Greek-hating satire snobs, we made up our own fake fraternity when I wrote for the Harvard Lampoon-like paper at my school -- Delta Ipsilon Kappa, the DIKs. Romney, I believe is a charter member. Member for sure. DIK.

Planted question on Lybian consulate (5.00 / 1) (#188)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:09:21 PM EST

: Heh. "Libyan." (none / 0) (#191)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:09:50 PM EST

And libation too, apparently.

God, he did it again. (5.00 / 3) (#189)
by Dr Molly on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:09:36 PM EST

Chasing him around the stage like he's gonna attack him or something. Outrageous.

Romney (5.00 / 1) (#190)
by Mr Tuxedo on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:09:39 PM EST

He's about to find himself strapped to the roof of the clown car that is the Republican Party. Bon voyage!

Romney's going to hit Obama on the (5.00 / 1) (#196)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:12:01 PM EST

Benghazi issue, because Obama's not really answering the question.

He needs to tell the people that Republicans denied additional funding for the extra security.

: No (5.00 / 3) (#198)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:12:49 PM EST

Taking responsibility was exactly the way to handle it.

: Hahaha. Love this instant fact checking. (none / 0) (#205)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:16:26 PM EST

My head exploded on Romney response to fair pay (5.00 / 5) (#199)
by Dexter on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:12:53 PM EST

I am a 58 year old female who has worked since I was 16. Romney thinks that women aren't paid equally because they need "flexibilty" that men don't? Total BS. I have never requested "flexibilty" and no woman I have ever worked with has requested it. I'm surprised Candy didn't croak. I doubt she ever told CNN that she couldn't be on assignment because she needed to be home to cook dinner. What about women workers who never have children, have not yet had children, or are empty nesters? Why are they paid less, Mitt? I am beyond insulted.

Now Mitt's flustered on Libya (5.00 / 2) (#206)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:16:39 PM EST

because Crowley confirmed what really happened.

Applause from the crowd! Mitt's toast!

The moment of the debate (none / 0) (#208)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:19:09 PM EST

: Agreed on that, BTD. (none / 0) (#209)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:20:31 PM EST

fingers (none / 0) (#1)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:04:48 PM EST

crossed

mitt (none / 0) (#2)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:05:11 PM EST

talking too much uh oh attack starts

Mitt knows what it takes.... (none / 0) (#4)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:05:52 PM EST

But he's not going to tell us

Shorter Mitt on Jobs (none / 0) (#5)
by Democratic Cat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:05:54 PM EST

Trust me, I can do it.

Obama sounds nervous to me. (none / 0) (#7)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:06:18 PM EST

Oy.

More "how". I like the start so far. (none / 0) (#12)
by magster on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:07:43 PM EST

: He's finding his groove - better. (none / 0) (#34)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:13:52 PM EST

Hate that he's so into fracking.

I guess Romney's original college funding (none / 0) (#8)
by caseyOR on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:06:23 PM EST

advice, "borrow it from your parents," didn't poll very well.

Now will Obama explain how the Romney/Ryan budget will cut Pell grants and other financial aid programs?

Moderate Mitt (none / 0) (#9)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:06:34 PM EST

has shown up again.

Do you think "Jeremy" wants to (none / 0) (#10)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:07:06 PM EST

work in a factory?

That's kind of a hard sell.

Manufacturing plants have managers and accountants (none / 0) (#16)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:08:19 PM EST

and IT guys.


Bet that's not how he heard it, though. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:11:16 PM EST

How many people think "IT and managers and accountants" when they hear "manufacturing jobs?"


: Out of touch (5.00 / 1) (#112)
by Rojas on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:44:39 PM EST

manufacturing means engineering.

: But he's speaing to people beyond Jeremy (none / 0) (#31)
by Democratic Cat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:13:08 PM EST

Lots of people would like to have the chance at a manufacturing job.

: They do need to expand how people (none / 0) (#36)
by nycstray on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:15:37 PM EST

think about "manufacturing jobs". Don't forget the designers, engineers, admin people etc. (depending on product). I personally spent the day designing product.

: We Don't Know What Jeremy's Major Is (none / 0) (#37)
by daring grace on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:16:06 PM EST

Maybe he's aiming for a job in industry...

I see everyone understood Mitt's (none / 0) (#13)
by nycstray on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:08:00 PM EST

answer as I did. Bet the college kid did also . . . .

Mitt's finishing laugh wasn't humane to (none / 0) (#14)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:08:05 PM EST

college student Jeremy. Josh noticed that the undecideds line shot up drastically when Obama began speaking. He is empathetic at least.

Obama is (none / 0) (#17)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:08:27 PM EST

doing a lot better this time.

: Yes, (none / 0) (#27)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:11:30 PM EST

And Mitt sounds like a jerk. Obama is killing him on Detroit now and telling the truth about him. He has challenged him on the tax break offshoring jobs.

Okay. (none / 0) (#19)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:09:26 PM EST

Now Obama is staring to go all over the place. he needs to get back to KISS.

So, I guess Crowley's going to (none / 0) (#20)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:09:32 PM EST

insert herself into this thing - both campaigns complained when she indicated she might do this.

Romney is flailing on the bankrupt thing.... (none / 0) (#22)
by magster on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:09:51 PM EST

"just isn't true" (none / 0) (#23)
by Democratic Cat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:10:34 PM EST

I like it.

: "very little of what he just said (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:18:23 PM EST

was true" Go Obama. What we wanted is happening...yesssssss. "What I try to do, is be consistent."

Romeny (none / 0) (#26)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:11:28 PM EST

is good. Too bad I know his plan isn't going to work but I'm willing to bet that this works with some voters.

So far so good... (none / 0) (#28)
by magster on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:12:02 PM EST

... Romney looked bad trying to off format there.

Obama (none / 0) (#30)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:12:35 PM EST

had a good comeback for the GM bankruptcy.

I liked Pres. Obama referring to (none / 0) (#35)
by oculus on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:15:00 PM EST

Mitt Romney as "Candidate Romney." You wanna be!

Bring up the forced attendance of coal workers... (none / 0) (#38)
by magster on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:16:07 PM EST

C'mon Obama. Door is open

Energy independence within 8 years (none / 0) (#39)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:16:40 PM EST

wtf. Romney is delusional. I just never get out of the OHMYGODIHATEYOUYOULIAR mode with him. Most disingenuous ...grrr.

Wow, he called him a liar again (none / 0) (#43)
by Democratic Cat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:17:47 PM EST

Didn't use the L word, but clearly that's what he's saying.

This is not (none / 0) (#44)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:17:50 PM EST

a good format for Mitt. he looks stiff. I'm thinking this is going to be a tie between the two. At least that's what I'm seeing so far.

oh, gosh (none / 0) (#47)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:19:09 PM EST

I feel like on energy policy it's who can be further to the right.

Well (none / 0) (#54)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:21:29 PM EST

I wish either one of them would tell the truth about gas and that's that the days of cheap gas are gone.

Did anyone predict 10 minutes on gas prices? (none / 0) (#55)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:21:40 PM EST

This last answer by Obama is good.

Suddenly Crowley goes to sleep (none / 0) (#58)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:22:44 PM EST

and allows Romeny to run the game and address Obama directly, then when OBama answers ROmney interrupts and Crowley deos nothing. Get control of the format lady!

Now she's asking Obama to answer the same question on oil and gas prices that he's lready answered twice.

What a sham of a "debate." In spite of this, OBama is very prepared and sharp tonight. Hes winnign it so far. Romney has no specifics and no new ideas. Oil, nat, gas, nukes. That's Romney's 1968 plan.

"I appreciate wind jobs in Iowa" (none / 0) (#59)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:23:24 PM EST

huh? Romney is a joke on energy.

Candy, make him play by the rules man (none / 0) (#61)
by Dr Molly on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:23:42 PM EST

She brought this on herself, by veering (5.00 / 1) (#64)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:25:30 PM EST

away from the agreed-upon format and inserting herself into it.

She's terrible - but Romney is really letting his inner bully out - bet that's a peek under the mask.


: Yup. I'd rather see Romney break the rules (5.00 / 1) (#81)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:32:34 PM EST

when he looks bad doing it.

How's Obama going to answer these (none / 0) (#67)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:26:39 PM EST

tax questions?

Bet he's going to get Mitt going on the failure of his arithmetic.

MItt: Trickle down! (none / 0) (#74)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:28:28 PM EST

IOW, Tinkle on the 99%.

OBama's answer so much better on taxes. Go for it, man. Take it to the Mittster and his car elevator lifestyle.

: Trickle? I call it P!$$. (5.00 / 1) (#78)
by nycstray on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:30:40 PM EST

Oh, kill me now...here we go on the (none / 0) (#77)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:29:47 PM EST

deficit.

On tax rates, someone forgot to tell Obama that Pelosi set the cut-off at $1 million, not $250K.

Well (none / 0) (#79)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:31:47 PM EST

the good news is that the lecturing professor is somewhere on sabbatical. LOL

Wow... (none / 0) (#91)
by daring grace on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:36:53 PM EST

"A road to Greece."

: Yeah, that was ridiculous (none / 0) (#106)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:42:12 PM EST

just one of the rightie buzz phrases

MItt went to women's groups (none / 0) (#99)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:40:49 PM EST

and said: PLEASE. I need some token women in my administration!

: What a dumb answer to the question, Mitt (5.00 / 1) (#103)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:41:35 PM EST

You fail.
I'm taking another drink.

when are the commercials? (none / 0) (#105)
by DFLer on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:41:43 PM EST

I need to check the game.

ooops if I had channel hopped i would have missed MR's line about "binders full of women" an interesting concept..(talking about gender equity)

"Important topic..." (none / 0) (#107)
by kdog on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:42:13 PM EST

almost spilled something. Safe to call it a total Romney bedsh*tting yet?

romney is intent on entering the unemployment (none / 0) (#115)
by DFLer on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:45:26 PM EST

rate into every answer, no matter what the question

Ohhh! Romney is gonna pull a Bill Clinton! (none / 0) (#120)
by nycstray on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:48:07 PM EST

and balance the budget!

Romney knows how hard it is (none / 0) (#123)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:48:35 PM EST

To nurture and grow a small vampire squid :)

Mitt has a 5-point plan for everything (none / 0) (#129)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:49:27 PM EST

I'm not Geo Bush
I might be Geo Bush but I'll say I'm not
Geo Bush and I aren't the same on trade. He bad on trade. But Obama bad on trade. Still, I'm not Bush!
Deficits bad, Bush bad on that. Uh-oh. Tea Party coming after me now. WHere's my bullet proof vest?
I'm not going to answer your question on getting us into wars like Bush did. I'm not comfortable with your question, young lady.

Not sure I'm comfortable with (none / 0) (#133)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:51:37 PM EST

Obama finding ways to show how Bush is better than Romney.

: I'm good with it. (none / 0) (#137)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:53:22 PM EST

Say it- bush was a compassionate conservative, (none / 0) (#134)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:51:38 PM EST

Romney is a severe conservative. Dang, opportunity wasted.

: Agreed, I'll take a drink for you anyway. (none / 0) (#142)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:54:23 PM EST

Maannn, I'mm likeing thiz wyine....

"I killed Osama! Top that one, Mitt!" (none / 0) (#138)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:53:32 PM EST

Has Mitt swallowed his tongue yet?

If he comes out and mentions his f-ing 5-point plan again, I'm turning that into my drinking phrase.

Romney (none / 0) (#150)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:56:58 PM EST

is mean. Obama better watch himself. And Romney wants to cut food stamps.

His expression just looks crazy (5.00 / 1) (#156)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:58:18 PM EST

he doesn't draw you in, he pushes you back with his frustration and barely restrained I dunno, disdain? For everyone who doesn't already believe him?


Yeah. I used to think he was a handsome guy (5.00 / 1) (#160)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:59:36 PM EST

But he just looks nasty today.


: Yeah, he's that glance across the room (5.00 / 1) (#167)
by nycstray on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:02:19 PM EST

and the closer you get, the more your warning signs go off. Then you make a bee line for the ladies room . . .

ooowee (none / 0) (#155)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:57:59 PM EST

you patronizing bastard, mitt.

Uh, do,presidents file bills? (none / 0) (#164)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:00:37 PM EST

: So on the first day in office (none / 0) (#211)
by cal1942 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:20:47 PM EST

Romney also amends the Constitution.

OK, weird. (none / 0) (#165)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:01:10 PM EST

Mitt just reminded me of Fred Willard doing a satire of Willard Romney.

"Green card stapled with a diploma."

And Ann's from Wales, an immigrant group that suffers a lot of discrimination in the U.S. of A.

Why can't they get Lorena's name right? Jeez.

Have another drink - I am. (5.00 / 1) (#175)
by Anne on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:04:31 PM EST

The folks at SNL must be out of their minds and wetting their pants at the mileage they're going to get out of this debate.

Shoot, I've had moments where I've thought I was watching an SNL skit.


This coming Saturday night's gonna be fun (none / 0) (#178)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:06:01 PM EST

The opening shot of Candy did it for me (none / 0) (#180)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:06:34 PM EST

The last time I saw her she had straight hair. Was not expecting that mane.


: Candy Judd. n/t (none / 0) (#184)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:07:37 PM EST

Me too on Lorena's name. Not that tough. (none / 0) (#172)
by ruffian on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:03:19 PM EST

At least Obama (none / 0) (#166)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:01:33 PM EST

got her name right, and DON'T GET PROFESSORIAL

How do people... (none / 0) (#168)
by kdog on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:02:35 PM EST

who come here illegally hold up the legal line Mitt? They come illegally, legally they don't exist.

arrgh (none / 0) (#169)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:02:38 PM EST

only a half hour to go and no major gaffes yet.

say something BTD (none / 0) (#170)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:03:10 PM EST

your take so far?

Yesssss (none / 0) (#173)
by lilburro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:03:42 PM EST

dropping the AZ bomb on Romney.

(Yawn) (none / 0) (#179)
by Mr Tuxedo on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:06:20 PM EST

How long till they declare Obama the Winner? Because this is the big Redemption Narrative, isn't it? After which Willard slinks back to his little rat-hole? You had a nice run, Mitt. And now . . . buh-bye!

Mitt trying to hang blind trust on Obama (none / 0) (#182)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:07:09 PM EST

Sickening. Obama needs to take the Cayman's dig and run with it!

Obama is very cool now (none / 0) (#183)
by fishcamp on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:07:34 PM EST

and is letting Romney show what a misinformed jerk he is...oh oh the pension thing is getting out of hand...get the gloves out.

Good it's almost over (none / 0) (#187)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:08:29 PM EST

Obama's tired now and doign the "ummm" thing.

Tje Behngazi question. Well, we knew (none / 0) (#192)
by caseyOR on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:09:56 PM EST

that was coming.

Mitt doesn't understand that the CIA (none / 0) (#200)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:13:05 PM EST

doesn't always get it right the first time. He slept through the Bush-Cheney years.

: And every decade (none / 0) (#212)
by cal1942 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:24:23 PM EST

since 1947.

Candy Crowley should be co-hosting (none / 0) (#202)
by shoephone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:14:56 PM EST

with Nancy Grace next year. She's kinda ridiculous.

new thread, this one closes at 200 comments (none / 0) (#203)
by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:15:03 PM EST

new thread here

oh god (none / 0) (#204)
by kmblue on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:15:37 PM EST

shouldn't end on Behngazi. Quick, a different question. How many questions have actually been asked.

It appears Romney (none / 0) (#213)
by fishcamp on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:30:54 PM EST

knows nothing about guns. I doubt he's ever shot a gun. Obama does know about guns and gun restriction. I like that about him. He knows about the hood and Romney does not.

Excellent (none / 0) (#214)
by Peter G on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 09:43:47 PM EST

They both closed on the 47% statement. I wonder who that helps? ;)

Second Presidential Debate Live Thread

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