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Friday Open Thread

It's a jail day for me which means an open thread for you.

Megaupload user Kyle Goodwin is going to get an evidentiary hearing on his motion for return of the data he stored on Megaupload's servers. The judge says he wants to hear evidence about whether Rule 41(G) (Motion for return of property) applies. He's already made up his mind on the other statute involved, 18 USC 1963. From the court order:

"Upon thorough review of the arguments before the Court... and careful consideration of the applicable law, the Court finds that it is unable to reach a conclusion as to this matter without an evidentiary hearing."

Megaupload/Kim Dotcom lawyer Ira Rothken says Megaupload will seek to intervene.

George Zimmerman is going to sue NBC News and some execs and reporters/producers over the distorted edits of his non-emergency call. The edit wasn't limited to one Today show. And it appeared online for a few weeks on NBC Miami's website. I outlined all the tv and online versions here, here and here.

Your turn.

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  • Display: Sort:
    I am (5.00 / 6) (#113)
    by lentinel on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 04:17:35 AM EST
    one of those pinko alarmists with regards to global warming.

    Huffpo has an article today detailing the melting of the Arctic ice.
    It reports that this is happening decades ahead of when it was predicted. This threatens fresh water supplies and food shortages among other disastrous effects.

    Is it too much to ask of the twit moderators to ask these two candidates for the highest office in the land - one of whom will control our destinies - what they intend to do about it?

    All I see is more drilling - and "clean" coal. (Clean filth. You gotta love that.)

    Personally I see this as a far greater threat than the bugaboos of Iran and North Korea that these two love to wave before us.

    With no link (none / 0) (#136)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 01:25:00 PM EST
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 02:36:02 PM EST
    So a slight increase in the Antartic sea ice level (one barely outside the normal range) is supposed to negate the massive drop in Arctic sea ice ... a drop that is well outside the normal range and unprecedented in over a thousand years.

    Heh.

    Parent

    1000 years (none / 0) (#138)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 03:36:49 PM EST
    .

    The measurement quality of sea ice before satellites is spotty at best.  The thousand year assertion is one that appears on its face to be at odds with farming and cod fishing communities in Greenland.  

    The fact remains that Antarctic ice made an all time high, a fact that the CAGW alarmist industry chooses to ignore.  Talk about inconvenient truth.

    .

    Parent

    They "chose to ignore" ... (5.00 / 3) (#147)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 08:20:26 PM EST
    ... the "all-time high" in Antarctic sea ice because it's barely outside the norm for the past decade, while the drop in Arctic sea ice is large and unprecedented in the past 1,000 years.  IOW - it's not newsworthy, except among the skeptics who are desperate for anything they can try to use to counteract the mountain of data/studies against them.

    Let's break it into terms you can understand.  If your friend weighs between 177 and 180 lbs for the past 10 years and one day weighs in at an "all time high!" of 181 lbs, there's no reason to call the doctor.  If that same friend weighed 177-180 lbs their entire adult life, then suddenly drops to 145 lbs., that's newsworthy ... time to call the doctor.

    Parent

    BTW - Your opinion ... (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 08:22:29 PM EST
    ... of the 1,000 year data and stories of codfishing in Greenland notwithstanding, I'll stick with the actual climate scientists/geologists on this one.

    Parent
    Right (2.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 12:46:20 PM EST
    .

    No point in relying on concurrent human observation when a reconstruction fits the narrative better.

    .

    Parent

    You know, it is a fact (none / 0) (#157)
    by MKS on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:29:45 PM EST
    that they have not proven that ciagarette smoking causes cancer, either.  

    By the time you have absolute 100% proof it will be too late....

    Parent

    Ah yes (none / 0) (#159)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 01:30:01 PM EST

    The old change of subject.  Perhaps you are right, those historians and archeologists documenting the Viking experience must be working for some tobacco company.

    Parent
    BS (none / 0) (#160)
    by Yman on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 02:06:14 PM EST
    Link to something indicating that "historians and archaeologists" are calling MMGW into question based on whatever the hell you're referring to, ... otherwise your claim is just another one of your typical, winger fairy tales.

    As far as "changing the story", I did no such thing.  But I understand why you tried to ...

    Parent

    Ahhhh ... you were responding to MKS (none / 0) (#161)
    by Yman on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 02:08:45 PM EST
    Whatever.  Where's the link to a single study backing up your fairy tale?

    Parent
    I should have known (none / 0) (#162)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:26:10 PM EST
    Citing actual experts is good (none / 0) (#163)
    by Yman on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:38:31 PM EST
    But citing experts that disagree with your fairy tale doesn't help your case.  The fact that you may think their conclusions are counterintuitive doesn't either.

    Still not a single study to try to prove it?

    Guess the reason is obvious ...

    Parent

    Wrong (none / 0) (#158)
    by Yman on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 11:23:05 AM EST
    No point in relying on anecdotal evidence of fisherman (because it fits the narrative of the deniers) when scientific data and evidence from actual experts is far more reliable.

    Parent
    Gee. (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by lentinel on Sun Oct 07, 2012 at 08:43:43 AM EST
    No link?

    I said it was in today's Huffpo.

    All you had to do was go to there.

    There are alarming photos.


    Parent

    And the Orioles Magic continues... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Anne on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 09:19:55 AM EST
    Great game last night, beating the Rangers 5-1, and now back home to take on the Yankees in a best-of-five divisional series.

    I like our chances!

    Today we are all Orioles fans (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by CoralGables on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 10:21:17 AM EST
    The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Baseball has marked the time. Memorial Stadium and Camden Yards, it's a part of our past and our future. It reminds us of all that once was good and could be again. It's the place where dreams come true. Fans will watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. An Orioles win and a Yankees loss... Maybe this is heaven.

    (with apologies to James Earl Jones/Terence Mann)


    Parent

    Alan Simpson: tired of listening to the (4.83 / 6) (#3)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 01:54:28 PM EST
    little guy - no, make that "damn sick and tired."

    From an event before the debate:

    SIMPSON: I get so damn sick and tired of listening to the little guy, the vulnerable, the veteran -- I am a veteran, and the seniors and this and this and this and the meanwhile this country is headed for second-class status while everybody just babbles into the vapor.

    Seriously - if only the little people would just STFU so the special people like Simpson and those he loves so much could just do what they want to do without anyone bothering them.

    What a terrible burden he bears, huh?

    Alan Simpson, Alan Simpson, (none / 0) (#32)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:58:57 PM EST
    let's see, isn't he the guy talked about for Secretary of Treasury? Or, is it the other guy?  I get them mixed up.

    Parent
    Channeling Barbara Bush (4.67 / 3) (#25)
    by CoralGables on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:49:21 PM EST
    This time from Arkansas state Rep. Jon Hubbard (R)

    "The institution of slavery that the black race has long believed to be an abomination upon its people may actually have been a blessing in disguise. The blacks who could endure those conditions and circumstances would someday be rewarded with citizenship in the greatest nation ever established upon the face of the Earth."


    "Citizenship"... (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:59:03 PM EST
    as long as they don't wanna vote.

    Parent
    Seriously? (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by unitron on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:09:27 PM EST
    Too bad they couldn't have had the blessing of everybody else staying the 4e11 out of their continent.

    Parent
    I'd like to have an argument, please. (4.50 / 2) (#1)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 01:41:10 PM EST
    Just wanted to say... (4.50 / 2) (#5)
    by Thanin on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 01:59:47 PM EST
    if the Obama administration could control the jobs numbers we'd have been under 8% a long time ago.

    The little Republican tyrant whose office (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:08:32 PM EST
    is around the corner from mine was stomping his little feet over the BLS report, having another one of his selective hissy fits, this time over the "outrageous" manipulation of the numbers that was clearly being driven by the administration.

    I said, "kinda makes you wonder why Obama waited this long to get the BLS to monkey with the numbers, doesn't it?"

    ::crickets::  He just stared at me and went back to his playpen, I mean, office.

    Parent

    Thank you for that! (none / 0) (#11)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:15:42 PM EST
    On behalf of all of us with similar co-workers.

    Parent
    Thankfully, my co-worker says (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:36:08 PM EST
     "WOOF!"  :)

    Parent
    working at home this afternoon (none / 0) (#17)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:37:11 PM EST
    so mine does too! When she is not chewing the throw rug in the other room. :-(

    Parent
    Mine has discovered how to (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:41:50 PM EST
    unravel the rug in my studio :P She's currently crated until she learns that "leave it!!!!" applies to unraveling the rug also . . . we won't talk about the gaping hole in the couch :/

    Parent
    LOL. I am not allowed to be home and not paying (none / 0) (#22)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:44:07 PM EST
    attention to HER! She goes in search of ways to get my attention.

    Parent
    Yup! And Rox is still very young (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:49:39 PM EST
    so if I can't keep "eyes" on her, she's contained. I really don't want to see/clean up her next "big idea". She gets so d@mn proud of herself too :P I tell her she's lucky she's so f*cking cute . . .

    Parent
    Ginger is 5! (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:52:34 PM EST
    But I have only had her two years. I keep wondering what horrible deed was the last straw for her previous owners. She is otherwise so sweet and adorable that it must have been really bad.

    Parent
    They may have just let her get (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:23:42 PM EST
    away with everything and/or kept her outside until they decided it was even easier not to have a dog . . .

    Gotta pic?

    Parent

    See if this works... (none / 0) (#48)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:54:22 PM EST
    Still working on a public sharing spot since apple shut down mobile me....

    Google+ link - should be set public:  [https://plus.google.com/photos/112107099820138642235/albums/5795929803136367393 Ginger ] preparing to unstuff a toy.

    Parent

    Not sure how I screwed that up. Sorry Jeralyn (none / 0) (#49)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:55:11 PM EST
    nycstray can you copy that link and use it?

    Parent
    said the url couldn't be found :( (none / 0) (#54)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:19:09 PM EST
    Try this instead (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:25:09 PM EST
    Forgot I set it up a long time ago to show you all some pictures.

    Ruffian's Album

    Ruffian is my dearly missed old dog, Ocli is my current older dog, and Ginger is the problem child!

    Parent

    They're beautiful, ruffian (none / 0) (#62)
    by sj on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:46:48 PM EST
    Thank you! (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:14:36 PM EST
    They really are - I can't take credit. Old Ocli is the sweetest dog ever too. Ginger is sweet but very hyper. Together they are like Romney and Obama the other night in the enrrgy contrast!

    Parent
    Seems like you have a dog "type" :D (none / 0) (#70)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:16:43 PM EST
    Which is the snow doggy?

    Ginger doesn't look like a problem child! Roxy! rarely stops long enough to get in that position. She chews, un-stuffs and everything else in constant motion . . . .

    Parent

    Snow doggy was Ruffian back in (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:05:43 PM EST
    the Denver area blizzard in spring 2003 I believe. He was 5 then. He passed about  3 years ago. Such a good dog!

    Yes, I got started on Goldens and kept the pattern. Ruffy was the puppy of a dog of some good friends. I just had fallen in love with her and the breed since a few other friends had them. Then I got Ocli, who is a golden-lab mix, when he got released from the canine companion program. Pretty lazy, even as a puppy. He did not want to work for a living!

    Then 2 years ago a neighbor asked me if I wanted his friend's golden. They were trying to find her a home and my neighbor knew I had lost Ruffy. So I could not resist. I think I was just not used to a young dog. She is really not all that bad. Her efforts to make Ocli play are pretty funny. Ill have to post a video sometime.

    I just wish she would stop the chewing!

    Sometimes I think it would be easier without pets, but I really don't know what I would do without them!

    Parent

    Young dogs can be rather shocking (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:22:31 PM EST
    after you've lived with a more mature one or two for awhile :) I've had several "OMG! WTF! have I DONE!" moments* with Roxy!, lol!~ but I don't know what I would do without her either . . .

    Was Ocli pretty much trained when you got him? I always thought it would be nice to get a CC drop out, but it would need some spots :D

    * most recently was 2 nights ago as she tore through a veggie garden bed on a play rampage that my kitty Harlem started . . . said garden bed diagnosed as flattened . . .

    Parent

    Ocli was as well trained as they could do! (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 07:12:09 PM EST
    A friend at work was training him, which is how I met him, and said he was the most stubborn dog he had worked with. He had no bad destructive habits though- just will not walk where he does not want to go.

    He had a bin full of stuffed toys he loved, and had some for years. After Ginger moved in they were destroyed in two days.

    Sorry about your garden. I bet they had a blast though! I call Ginger my favorite mistake, after a Sheryl Crow song.

    Ruffy once dug a hole around an armadillo and tore up my sprinklers. That was a fun repair!

    Oh we'll, what are we gonna do?

    Parent

    We are having puppies in a week (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 09:36:18 AM EST
    I haven't had any puppies for over two years because how can you bring puppies into this economic reality?  But I am now on the cusp of losing some of my really good alleles, I held off on breeding her and her first breeding six months ago did not take and she absorbed them.  Just having an unspayed dog doesn't mean she is fertile.  I guess all the progesterone released when they are in heat beats up their reproductive systems and it is worse if the cycle didn't produce a pregnancy.  So unspayed dogs that have had pregnancy delayed in their lives are usually less fertile.

    I am excited on one hand, and on the other hand I'm thinking "What the hell have I done to myself?"

    She's pretty funny too.  She is my first female dog who has had her legs swell during her pregnancy.  It doesn't just happen to humans :)  She's huge though, she lays on the floor and looks at me and her eyes ask the same question "What the hell have I done to myself?"

    Parent

    Do you keep the pups? (none / 0) (#128)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 09:43:08 AM EST
    Just wondering how hard it is to find homes for them.  We got an Aussie-mut three years ago after the crash and were told by the rescue people that they were just flooded with rescues, particularly from kill-shelters in the South.  Maybe a different situation with purebreds?  Just wondering if it's gotten any better.

    Parent
    It probably won't be a cinch (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 01:20:34 PM EST
    Putting them into their homes.  I will keep one female if the litter turns out well and it really should.  They have a great pedigree, super super pedigree, big champions in there and both parents are awesome.  It will probably be the best litter I've ever had.  If I wait another year I suspect my female will no longer be fertile and her alleles will be lost to the gene pool.

    I will probably advertise them nationally, most of them will likely fly to their new homes after a puppy contract and puppy questionaire passes. Most of our puppies have ended up flying to their homes though unless it is a home in the Southeast.  If it is a home within four hours from my home I've delivered them myself.   I did deliver one puppy to Orlando once and once to South Carolina, so I have gone farther before and I probably would again for the right home.

    Parent

    Oh, very nice! (none / 0) (#89)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:29:23 PM EST
    Thank you, ruffian.

    Parent
    Our first dog, (none / 0) (#29)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:57:08 PM EST
    an otherwise wonderful Standard Poodle, ate a good bit of our living room rug.  She did eliminate the fibers eventually, some by upchucking them (in the house, of course) and the rest came out of the (ahem) lower digestive tract, in the normal course of events.
    Needless to say, we got a new rug.  ;-)

    Parent
    Roxy! has puked up some "interesting" (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:28:19 PM EST
    fabric items. One day I couldn't figure out what it was for the life of me. Then a few days later I noticed the stuffed rabbit was missing his big ol' ear. She returned that one "whole" :P

    Dot had SUCH good house manners, that I always joked my next pup would be H#ll on Wheels, and that she is :D The rug she is working on now is a free second hand one that I put down to see if I could get new rugs yet . . . I think I have my answer, lol!~

    Parent

    That's funny. I will definitely be watching (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:08:02 PM EST
    for rug fibers this weekend.

    Parent
    And if Mitt Romney could control them... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:09:48 PM EST
    it would be 20% right now...because he loves 100% of us so so much;)

    Parent
    Happy Golden Anniversary (4.50 / 2) (#14)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:25:42 PM EST
    to the first of the James Bond movies, Dr. No.
    I was a teenager 50 years ago today when this came out, and I loved it back then.
    I also loved Sean Connery.  To me, he is the one and only, quintessential James Bond.
    I may have to have a vodka martini, "shaken, not stirred" in James Bond's honor tonight.   ;-)

    Today is also... (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:36:12 PM EST
    the 50th anniversary of the release of The Beatles first single, Love Me Do.  It was a red letter day half a century ago!  

    Parent
    And I feel (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:46:06 PM EST
    terribly, terribly old, because I clearly remember these two events!    ;-)
    (Oh, well, I guess I'm lucky because I actually still remember them!)

    Parent
    It's also.... (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by desertswine on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 09:36:57 PM EST
    Larry's birthday!  Happy Birthday Larry, if you were still alive.

    Parent
    The Beatles and Beach Boys (none / 0) (#47)
    by brodie on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:52:00 PM EST
    and Bond, JFK in the WH (no one worried about him being aggressive in debate).

    Pretty good times 1962.  Though the Beatles' ditty LMD was a weak song, and iirc the US radio jocks didn't start playing their songs until the latter part of 1963.

    In second grade at the beginning of that year.  Where were you in '62?

    Parent

    Well, for myself, I was (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:00:09 PM EST
    in high school.  
    And I also clearly remember where I was when JFK was assassinated- still in high school, and the principal came on the PA to announce it.
    The 60's were more than an "interesting" time, if I can even call it "interesting"- that seems like such an inadequate word, in very many ways, not just musically, but politically.

    Parent
    Yep. Freshman algebra, 1:10 p.m. (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Towanda on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:09:04 PM EST
    on that fateful day when we lost JFK.  Also a PA announcement, and in a Catholic high school.  You can imagine the sight: nuns and priests crying, along with students.  No more algebra nor any other subject for the next few hours.  Just praying, first with hope, and then for his immortal soul.

    More numerical reminiscences:  Then, when I saw the Beatles on their first U.S. tour, the ticket cost $2.50.  (I still have the stub.  Also Beatles trading cards and Beatles bikini underwear.)

    To put that into perspective, $2.50 was 10 hours of babysitting -- and, in the baby boom years, in a Catholic parish, 10 hours x average client family size of 8 kids.

    Parent

    I was in Catholic grade school, first grade. (none / 0) (#71)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:16:58 PM EST
    We got sent home early and all the moms on the block were crying. Very sad time even though of course I did not understand that much. But I remember looking at the funeral pictures in Life magazine.

    Parent
    i was in 6th grade, also 1:10 p.m. CST. (none / 0) (#72)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:18:57 PM EST
    I was walking through the school cafeteria on my way to the principal's office (don't ask). A classmate walked up to me and said, "The president's been shot." I said, "Yeah, right." He said, "No, really." And we both ran to Sister Benedict's office where she had the radio playing through the school's PA system.

    1963? Not such a good year.


    Parent

    I was a sophomore (none / 0) (#86)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:20:03 PM EST
    in high school, although it was Algebra II for me.  A public high school.  And I remember that most of the kids in the class were in shock or crying, but there were a few who seemed to be happy.  I was shocked at this, but I must say that the teacher called them out on this.

    PS  You only got 25 cents an hour for babysitting, Towanda???  The going rate where I lived was 50 cents an hour.  You were cheated!   ;-)

    Parent

    The girls got 50 cents an hour (none / 0) (#110)
    by Peter G on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 12:28:51 AM EST
    but I was a boy, so I got $0.75/hr for babysitting! My first lesson in discriminatory pay rates. I noticed. I perceived the injustice of it.  But I took it and kept it.
       I was in Mrs. Frost's 8th grade Latin class, public junior high in northern New Jersey, when we got the news over the PA on Nov. 22, 1963.

    Parent
    They made you take Latin in 8th grade? (none / 0) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 02:23:46 AM EST
    Might I assume, then, that it was Catholic school, pre-Vatican II?

    Parent
    No, as I said, it was a public junior high (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Peter G on Sun Oct 07, 2012 at 03:10:49 PM EST
    Latin was an elective.  I chose to take it for two years, 7th & 8th grades. Whether November 1963 was "pre-Vatican II," I'm quite sure, can be objectively verified, without the need for any assumptions.

    Parent
    I took Latin in 9th and 10th grade (none / 0) (#153)
    by oculus on Sun Oct 07, 2012 at 04:15:19 PM EST
    public school, pre-Vatican II.  

    Parent
    I was 5 and playing in the living room (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by SuzieTampa on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 04:52:55 PM EST
    in our house in Irving, TX, when my mother rushed in to explain the president had been shot and then soon, she explained that the man who killed Kennedy was the husband of the woman who had been living with Ruth Hyde Paine, who had been my Sunday school teacher.

    Years later, when I was a reporter in Tampa, I ran into Ruth, and I ended up interviewing her for a feature story. She's a remarkable woman.

    Parent

    Great story! (none / 0) (#142)
    by shoephone on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 04:56:58 PM EST
    Pretty good times until that pesky missile (none / 0) (#64)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:00:06 PM EST
    crisis in October. But, hey, what's thirteen days out of an entire year, right?

    Let's see, in 1962 I was 10 years old and in 4th grade at the beginning of the year. Luckily, that fall I moved up to 5th grade.

    I agree, Love Me Do is not one of the boys' bets tunes, but it is a snappy little song. Listening to some of the early songs and then working my way through the Beatles songbook, well, the boys really had an amazing musical range.

    Parent

    Oh, yes (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:30:18 PM EST
    the Cuban missile crisis, then, as I said, the JFK assassination the next year, then LBJ escalating the Vietnam War based on the whole Gulf of Tonkin "attack," and on and on.  The 60's were not exactly my favorite time.  JFK killed, Vietnam War escalated, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and RFK killed.
    Let's just say that, while I appreciate a whole lot of the music of that era, and I am glad that the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were passed, there were a whole lot of other things going on, too.

    Parent
    Hey, thirteen dark days (none / 0) (#75)
    by brodie on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:30:49 PM EST
    but if it hadn't been successfully resolved by the two Ks, we wouldn't be here talking about it today.  So in that sense, a good year even with that -- and it did seem to launch a beginning to detente, cut short of course by what happened the next year.  

    Was the Twist also '62?  

    Larry of Arabia.

    Catholic Church still probably giving its "seal of approval" to Hollywood movies making the censors' grade.

    Parent

    Ah, yes, the Legion of Decency, (none / 0) (#77)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:46:07 PM EST
    arbiter of moral good taste for American Catholics. Yes, it was alive and kicking in the 1960s.

    Chubby Checkers and The Twist was 1960.

    Parent

    Yes the official and unofficial (none / 0) (#83)
    by brodie on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:06:45 PM EST
    censors kept the culture rather innocent seeming back in the early 60s.  

    Things really didnt start to open up in movies until the middle of the decade, and the new MPAA movie rating system. Music stayed mostly light and fluffy until about that same time, except for PP&M and Dylan and a few of the socially concerned folkies, some of my earliest and warmest musical memories.

    Parent

    I'm told... (none / 0) (#68)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:14:14 PM EST
    being a living, breathing doll for my big sister.  I turned all of two in the Fall of '62.  

    Parent
    Unarmed Army Reservist... (4.50 / 2) (#15)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:26:01 PM EST
    shot and killed by NYPD detective...while an off duty cop is asleep in the victim's backseat.

    Weird one...sounds like a possible case of road rage.

    I run out of words for these (none / 0) (#19)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:41:07 PM EST
    episodes. Thank god the woman that was in the front seat seems like a reliable witness. Sober and sure of what she saw.

    Parent
    Yes... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:45:22 PM EST
    and run out shock...ya just wait for the next one, and hope it ain't you or yours.

    It's not like the DOJ is gonna do anything to the deified NYPD.  And sometimes I think Ray Kelly is the mayor, and Bloomberg works for him.  May as well be...carte blanche.

    Parent

    NYC cops... (none / 0) (#107)
    by desertswine on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 09:40:04 PM EST
    bill Mom for dent in car that killed her son.

    Parent
    Swat raids, does the left oppose them? (4.50 / 2) (#18)
    by redwolf on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:39:50 PM EST
    http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20121005/NEWS/310050060/Terrorized-family-SWAT-team-raids-wron g-home?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home&nclick_check=1

    I've seen increasing use of SWAT raids for the smallest things.  In the raid above it was to get a DNA sample from someone.  Does anyone oppose this? The expanding police state is a travesty but both parties seem all for it.  I get it the right loves the cops, but shouldn't the left oppose this complete destruction of our 4th amendment rights?

    Count me as opposing (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:43:03 PM EST
    What I don't get is why you get that the right supports these - aren't they the ones supposedly against big government? What is bigger government than the cops crashing through your door?

    Parent
    Every republican I talk to... (none / 0) (#39)
    by redwolf on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:16:01 PM EST
    loves swat raids.

    Parent
    You must (none / 0) (#43)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:34:16 PM EST
    .

    You must talk to very few.

    .

    Parent

    How do they square it with their (none / 0) (#58)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:30:19 PM EST
    distrust of government?

    Parent
    If you oppose it like I suspect most of the TL (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:49:50 PM EST
    regulars do...get yourself a Talk Left 4th Amendment tote bag. . I like to use mine at the airport.

    Parent
    How does that work re TSA? (none / 0) (#154)
    by oculus on Sun Oct 07, 2012 at 04:17:55 PM EST
    Strongly opposed... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:57:55 PM EST
    and yes, both parties are all for it as far as I can tell.  They might have even more use for a domestic army in the future...and thats what the police in many jurisdictions have become...a military force.  They've got all the latest tyranny gadgets and weapons...and once they got 'em, its use 'em or lose 'em...and they're gonna use 'em...to collect DNA samples if they have to.  Outrageous.

    What did Orwell say about the future?

    If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face.



    Parent
    Indeed. One of my neighbors (none / 0) (#42)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:33:43 PM EST
    is an incumbent Dem CA state senator running for re-election, in an obviously very blue state, and yesterday we got a mailer from her.

    It was all about increasing Law and Order. "Stronger" sentencing, especially for sex crimes. Etc.

    I read it and thought "Man, she'd get thrashed by the TL community!"

    Parent

    This is disgusting (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:06:59 PM EST
    And this type of SWAT raid has been happening more and more.  
    He was "a person of interest"?  Oh well, then I guess it's supposed to be okay for the police to act like storm troopers, invading the wrong house (which, yes, he had given as his address, but they obviously did not do any "due diligence" or any type of corroboration).  And not even to arrest him, or to stop a crime in progress, but to get a DNA sample????
    Give me a f*cking break.  
    Welcome to the current police state.  
    The United States of America, and the U.S. Constitution, I hardly knew you.   :-(

    Parent
    Too BiG BiRD to FaiL (4.50 / 2) (#30)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:57:43 PM EST
    Gotta love Charlie Pierce on Big Bird (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:56:17 PM EST
    If Romney is not hereafter haunted at various campaign stops by people in Big Bird suits carrying tin cups and singing, "Buddy, Can You Spare A Dime?" -- well, I'm going to be very disappointed by the modern American political imagination. link

    Parent
    Oh boy, you just gave me my Halloween (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:31:27 PM EST
    costume!

    Parent
    Upcoming winter (none / 0) (#2)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 01:51:10 PM EST
    Well, the Farmer's Almanac is predicting a colder and snowier than normal winter for this area of the country.
    However, the woolly bear caterpillars in my back yard are predicting a very mild winter, judging from their exceptionally wide brown areas.
    I choose to believe the woolly bears.  And I sincerely hope they're right.   ;-)

    We woke up to... (none / 0) (#4)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 01:54:45 PM EST
    a dusting of snow this morning.  May get more tomorrow.  

    Got to get that out of way so we can have a true Indian Summer.  And so I can grow my beard!

    Parent

    It's 80 today here in Maryland... (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:02:24 PM EST
    reminds me that, on the day I had my daughter, 26 years ago on the 9th, it was in the 80's - it seemed unusual then, as I recall, and now we find ourselves getting a little irritated when it actually begins to get chilly this time of year.

    The only request I have of Mother Nature this winter - well, make that two requests - (1) no major weather issues when my older daughter goes into labor with her first child and (2) just one good snow that starts when everyone is home from work, and ends in time to leave no doubt that we're getting the next day off from work, without guilt!

    Parent

    Have faith (none / 0) (#12)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:16:50 PM EST
    in the woolly bears, Anne!
    One good snow is fine, as you said.  But not on the date of your daughter's labor!    ;-)
    PS  It never got above 70 degrees today up here in the mountains.  We love that, but we pay for it in the winter, when it tends to be colder and snowier than it it for you folks "down below" and closer to the coast.

    Parent
    F*ckin'... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:07:46 PM EST
    80 degrees and sunshine sweet sunshine in the NY...and everything's still so green.  Weird.  Last fall was the same way, followed by a most wild winter.

    With the price of heating oil, my household needs a repeat of some of that action.  Mother Nature, have I told you lately how beautiful you are? ;)

    Parent

    We went from... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:11:17 PM EST
    sunny and 80 to cloudy, windy and 40 in a matter of minutes the other evening.  Got to love Colorado weather.

    Parent
    We're talking (none / 0) (#13)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:19:55 PM EST
    Colorado here, MileHi, after all.
    When daughter Zorba was living in Ithaca, New York, the weather could change from sunny and warm to rain or snow seemingly in an instant.  They always used to say "Don't like the weather?  Just wait a minute."

    Parent
    Snowing in Minnesota... (none / 0) (#52)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:04:30 PM EST
    ...as I type.

    LINK

    Parent

    Snowed (none / 0) (#67)
    by Towanda on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:11:20 PM EST
    in Wisconsin a couple of weeks ago -- but northern Wisconsin, so that's like saying it snowed in Canada.  No biggie.

    Parent
    A follow-up on California's (none / 0) (#23)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:44:08 PM EST
    "Prop 8 Priest":   Salvatore Cordileone was installed yesterday as the Catholic Archbishop of San Francisco amid ceremonial splendor.  Getting that pesky drunk driving charge of last August out of the way, Mr. Cordileone pleaded guilty to the lesser misdemeanor charge of reckless driving (he had been set to be arraigned Oct 9.) The Archbishop was sentenced to 3 years probation, a $1,120 fine, and attendance at a panel discussion by Mothers Against Drunk Driving.

    Speaking to his audience, the archbishop referred to the matter saying, "I know that in my life God has always had a way of putting me in my place.  I would say, though that in the latest episode of my life, God has outdone himself."     Love, just love his humor...but it would seem that Jack Daniels may have had more to do with this episode than God.

    Yes, no kidding, Dan (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:12:22 PM EST
    God has been far, far too kind to him, if that's what he believes in.  I would prefer more thunder, lightning, and retribution.  Not only for him, but even more for the pedophile priests in the Catholic Church.


    Parent
    Way to go Granny! (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:10:26 PM EST
    My kinda Grandma...13 (count 'em 13) home invaders came to steal her crops, but Grandma wasn't havin' it...so she warded them all off with a can of bear repellant.

    Not all good news though, she says she is getting out of the marijuana business, too dangerous.  That's what happens when you only quasi-legalize...ya still have to deal with the gangsters and inflated black market prices attracting thieves.  

    The post debate reaction (none / 0) (#38)
    by Politalkix on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:13:05 PM EST
    from some who knew him from many years ago. link
    I personally feel that BHO's subdued debate performance was a combination of the following
    (1) he was advised not to get into a mud wrestling pit with Romney and play it safe. I heard Jen Psaki tell Candy Crowley before the debate that BHO would not engage with Romney on "zingers" but talk directly to the American people who were outside the debate hall about his policies. When Crowley (with an incredulous look on her face) asked whether that meant BHO would just "ignore" Romney, she once again repeated that he would talk directly to the people outside the debate hall. This is probably the reason he did not look at Romney directly for most of the time, during the debate.
    (2) I think he and his campaign staff really think that Romney is a dishonest a##h##e, not worthy of the respect that was due to HRC or McCain. So his attitude towards Romney is just as our reaction would be towards a dishonest vacuum cleaner salesperson who came knocking at our door-i.e. just get him out without going into details about why we feel that his/her vacuum cleaner s#cks. His advisors may have told him that "look, Romney is never going to be Prez unless you screw up very badly by losing your temper in public or getting into an argument about who is lying and appearing less than Presidential-just play it safe".


    I'm actually leaning (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by brodie on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:37:04 PM EST
    towards the theory that it was the non-confrontational PPUS Obama who was leading his advisors on the strategy and not the reverse.  And I can see there being a lot of advisors already thinking the same way.

    I think he just prefers not to directly confront, if he can, and I don't see him also as the type who has to worry about losing his temper.  Naturally somewhat aloof and even keeled type, not emotional.

    Though I think that now, post debate, he's probably angry at himself for his strategic choice.

    Strong stuff today from Bob Herbert at HP also about Obama the serial non fighter.

    Parent

    Playing (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 03:58:22 PM EST
    it safe was playing not to lose which Democrats do way too much. He did a poor job of talking to voters if that was his goal. I don't think that not looking at Romney really mattered. What mattered was he kept looking down and shuffling papers.

    His reaction towards Romney is a BIG mistake if that's true. I have seen other politicians do the same and they ended up LOSING the election.

    Parent

    Well it mattered in this sense (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by brodie on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:13:36 PM EST
    that O, by looking down and not directly eyeballing his accuser, looked like a guilty student being lectured and scolded by his teacher for constantly turning in homework late.  He looked weak and guilty as charged.

    Not sure who in prep thought that picture on the split screen would be good politically.

    Hate to beat a dead horse about this, but I am sick of wimpy Dems not fighting.  

    Did Obama also miss the Dukakis campaign?  

    Parent

    He (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by lentinel on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 03:22:52 AM EST
    might have also missed the Kerry campaign.

    Parent
    He might have . . . (none / 0) (#55)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:21:26 PM EST
    Did Obama also miss the Dukakis campaign?


    Parent
    He didn't want to offend (none / 0) (#63)
    by NYShooter on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:51:11 PM EST
    the Republican's choice.

    He still believes he can win Mississippi.


    Parent

    Good Point (none / 0) (#91)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 07:12:27 PM EST
    only not so much- I trust the Obama team at least on campaigning, they won an underdog race in the 2008 primary, then crushed as a favorite in the general, and other than this debate performance they've been spot on this year tactically so forgive me if I trust them to bring this home.

    Parent
    Obama wasn't the underdog in 2008 (3.67 / 3) (#143)
    by SuzieTampa on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 05:06:08 PM EST
    The Dem honchos backed him and threw out votes from Michigan and FL. NYT stories have described how he was never much of a debater. Where he excels is in prepared speeches to supporters.

    Parent
    Obama doesn't want to be president. (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by redwolf on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:36:58 PM EST
    He'd rather golf and watch ESPN than run the day to day affairs of the government. I think it was loosing the majority in congress ended his ability to make big changes which in turn  ended his fire for the office.

    As un-enthusiastic and uninterested as he seems on the campaign trail, I'm surprised he even decided to run.  Stepping aside and letting Hillary run would have been a better choice.  He really reminds me of Bush 1.  Bush really didn't want a second term and didn't campaign all that hard against Clinton.

    Parent

    This may be the dumbest thing I've read (none / 0) (#92)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 07:14:45 PM EST
    today, watch him in Wisconsin today, the man wants it he had an off night but he's going to win. How on Earth would letting your Secretary of state run have been a good idea?

    Parent
    Redwolf (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 07:34:15 PM EST
    is partly right. Obama really does not seem to care for governing but loves campaigning. So that's why you probably saw what you saw in WI. I mean have you ever seen him animated about an issue during a press conference?

    Parent
    His personality (none / 0) (#94)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 08:00:09 PM EST
    isn't animated, he's more laid back and calculating-- don't take that to mean he wont fight for a policy- take healthcare, he got that through despite opposition that would have cowed other Democratic administrations (see the Clinton admin on Healthcare), and is more willing to take chances than some give him credit for (see for example spineless congressional Dems--even those who supposedly care about civil liberties like Feingold-- undercutting him on Gitmo).

    Parent
    Sorry (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 08:14:00 PM EST
    but I don't consider passing Bob Dole's healthcare plan as a great accomplishment. Clinton could have passed it back in the 90's if he had rolled over for the GOP. The reason he has so many problems is his lack of leadership. He thinks leadership is cutting deals and standing back and watching others. He really does not have an ideological compass or either he has a conservative compass. Take your pick I guess.

    Parent
    And Bill admits (none / 0) (#98)
    by CoralGables on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 08:53:23 PM EST
    he made a mistake on healthcare by striving for the unreachable, and would have been smarter to take what he could get passed at the time. So yes, as much as I like Bill he failed on healthcare and we would have been about 18 years further along at this point had he compromised.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 07:31:24 AM EST
    you have a point. We would have already known that it doesn't work.

    Parent
    Excuses, Excuses (none / 0) (#99)
    by Politalkix on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 09:02:28 PM EST
    "Clinton could have passed it back in the 90's if he had rolled over for the GOP...."
    Coulda, shoulda, woulda...does not cut it. This is as stupid as saying "My team would have won the game but we did not want to win the game by scoring a field goal when we were down by two point, anything less than a touchdown was not acceptable to us".
    The Clinton health care debacle set back health care reform by 2 decades!

    Parent
    Oh (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 07:35:38 AM EST
    brother. Clinton is to blame for Obama passing the crappy ACA. The ACA is actually indicative of all Obama's problems in a nutshell. He handed it off to somebody else to write. Then he cut backroom deals. Obama just wanted to "pass something" so he could check off his list. He couldn't even sell his own legislation in town halls because either he didn't believe in it or didn't even understand it or care about it.

    Parent
    No (1.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Politalkix on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 08:03:59 AM EST
    You have a reading comprehension problem. You wrote "Oh brother Clinton is to blame for Obama passing the crappy ACA". No, if we really want to talk about blame (which I do not), Clinton is to be blamed for not being able to pass a health care bill that he promised, no amount of shifting the blame to BHO (for all real and imagined ills of the ACA) is going to cover for this fact.
    Your defensiveness about Clinton borders on the ridiculous.

    Parent
    You have (5.00 / 3) (#119)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 08:24:44 AM EST
    to be kidding? You're the one that makes excuse after excuse for Obama. Did Clinton pass healthcare? No, he did not. Could he have passed Bob Dole's health care plan if he wanted to? Yes, he probably could have. You seem to be saying that he should have passed Bob Dole's healthcare. My opinion is that not passing the ACA would have been better because it's designed to fail. All the ACA does is kick the can further down the road and does nothing to solve the problems in the health care system which is rising costs. And as far as things like preexisting conditions, if Obama was a smart politician, he would have sent those through congress as separate bills and dare the GOP to vote against them.

    Parent
    Well, then, if we're to track back the blame (none / 0) (#120)
    by Towanda on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 08:29:06 AM EST
    to the Clinton era, the blame is on Dems in Congress then, when they had Congress.  Blame Teddy Kennedy.

    Or, wait, if blame must be on a Dem president who proposed national health care but didn't win it, blame Truman.  Anything to get the blame off Obama!

    Parent

    There you go again! (none / 0) (#121)
    by Politalkix on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 08:35:38 AM EST
    Everything that sucks in your life has to be blamed on BHO. How can it not be?
    We get it (snark).


    Parent
    A Reagan line? (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 09:24:07 AM EST
    He was pretty good with straw arguments, too.

    "Transformative", you might even say ...

    Parent

    The Inconvenient Truth (none / 0) (#130)
    by Politalkix on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 10:43:48 AM EST
    is that between 1992 and 1994, the Democratic Party controlled the Presidency, Senate (57 seats) and the House of Representatives (258 seats).
    Yet Bill Clinton could not pass a health care bill!
    We get it! If Bill Clinton could not pass a health care bill, the buck stops with Ted Kennedy. However, even if BHO could pass a long awaited health care bill (with some imperfections that did not meet expectations of the left) the blame for all real and imagined inadequecies of the bill should be on BHO and not Lieberman or Nelson.


    Parent
    The REALLY inconvenient truth (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 11:05:54 AM EST
    Obama made many promises on healthcare (public hearings televised on C-SPAN, no individual mandate, allow importation of cheaper drugs, a public option, no backroom deals, etc.), all of which he promptly threw under the bus in a backroom deal to gain the support of the drug/insurance companies in order to end up with the Republican plan of '94.

    BTW - Still waiting for that list of Clinton's broken healthcare promises ...

    Parent

    Don't need promises (none / 0) (#132)
    by CoralGables on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 11:08:43 AM EST
    Clinton, in an interview with Larry King, called his failed healthcare negotiations his biggest domestic failure as president by not agreeing to an offered bipartisan deal.

    Parent
    Good for him (none / 0) (#133)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 11:36:52 AM EST
    I think the ACA was among Obama's biggest domestic failures by agreeing to the Republican plan of '94.

    My point was that: 1) Clinton could have had the ACA simply by agreeing to its doppleganger - the Republican plan of '94, and 2) Obama broke a half dozen major campaign promises to get there.

    Parent

    BTW - What interview? (none / 0) (#134)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 11:47:10 AM EST
    Not to question your paraphrasing of Clinton's comments, but you provided no link or direct quote.

    Is it this interview?

    If so, Clinton said no such thing.

    Parent

    There you go, not thinking it through again (none / 0) (#139)
    by Towanda on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 03:52:43 PM EST
    since, downthread, you also point out that Dems controlled Congress for two years during that administration.  And, I hope, you do know that presidents don't pass laws?

    Try to control your knee-jerk reactions to anything that I say, because when you do so when we agree, you're just being a jerk.

    Parent

    BS (none / 0) (#124)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 09:22:47 AM EST
    No, if we really want to talk about blame (which I do not), Clinton is to be blamed for not being able to pass a health care bill that he promised, no amount of shifting the blame to BHO (for all real and imagined ills of the ACA) is going to cover for this fact.
    Your defensiveness about Clinton borders on the ridiculous.

    Here's just two of the numerous broken promises that Obama made re: healthcare reform.

    Show me Clinton's broken promises on healthcare reform.

    Parent

    Also this ... (none / 0) (#108)
    by Erehwon on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 09:40:53 PM EST
    Asked about his greatest regret as a legislator, Ted Kennedy would usually cite his refusal to cut a deal with Richard Nixon on health care.

    In addition, just like Bill Clinton had Sam Nunn (which led to DADT), Obama had Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman (which led to ACA). Of course, Medicare For All or the Single Payer, would be better, but ...

    Parent

    Fairy tales, fairy tales (none / 0) (#122)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 09:18:48 AM EST
    Coulda, shoulda, woulda...does not cut it. This is as stupid as saying "My team would have won the game but we did not want to win the game by scoring a field goal when we were down by two point, anything less than a touchdown was not acceptable to us".
    The Clinton health care debacle set back health care reform by 2 decades!

    This is as stupid as saying "My team made progress on 4th and 25 by taking the 5 yard run that the other team would gladly give up, rather than taking a real shot down the field."

    Not to mention all the backroom deals and broken promises it took to get the lousy 5 yards.

    Parent

    Obamacare is the Republican plan (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 09:30:06 AM EST
    take healthcare, he got that through despite opposition that would have cowed other Democratic administrations (see the Clinton admin on Healthcare), and is more willing to take chances than some give him credit for

    ... from '94, absent the backroom deal with the drug companies and the myriad other broken promises Obama made.  All Clinton had to do to get the crappy ACA was let the Republican party write the bill, instead of Obama's method - letting the insurance companies write it.

    Parent

    He also has had fewer press conferences (none / 0) (#144)
    by SuzieTampa on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 05:12:35 PM EST
    than other presidents, plus he doesn't meet regularly with the opposition leaders. He doesn't like to deal with opposition.

    Parent
    Huh? He was not being president (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Towanda on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 10:04:28 PM EST
    in Wisconsin.  He was campaigning.

    I'm not saying that he doesn't want to be president.  I dunno.

    But going to a pep rally far from D.C. is not persuasive evidence that he does want to be back in D.C. being president.

    Parent

    Here's my theory (none / 0) (#57)
    by vicndabx on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:26:07 PM EST
    his handlers ran the debate day by him a few months back and he, busy man that he is, agreed to the date forgetting it was the anniversary; 20th no less.

    Michelle at some point after says, so....what do you want to do for our 20th anniversary this year? {cue Shaggy from Scooby-doo - zoikes!!}

    The president was looking nervous for a reasl simple reason.  Debate day is reminder of "awww man, I screwed up the 20th anniversary for the wife."

    Surely up there on the list of husband's worst nightmare, I tell ya.

    {of course I have no proof of this, merely speculation}

    Parent

    If that's the real reason (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:36:10 PM EST
    for his lackluster performance then he is not qualified to hold the office of presidency. Most pi$$poor excuse I've ever heard in my life.

    But then, I'm finding all the excuses to be a bit pathetic.

    Parent

    Would you buy (none / 0) (#76)
    by brodie on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:42:25 PM EST
    the wedding anniversary plus the high altitude?  Like, negative synergy?

    How about, he was feeling bad on accounta he was just a mere millionaire but Mitt was a several hundred millionaire?

    Or, alternatively, his planets weren't properly aligned that day and we're still feeling planetary effects from the negative forces of the waning Era of Pisces?

    Parent

    The only excuse I'd consider legit (none / 0) (#80)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:00:58 PM EST
    is if he had just had a meeting or a phone call regarding scarier info in the offing from the Turkey-Syria situation. Forget Bibi and Ahmadinajahd. Syria already having fired into both Lebanon and Turkey could portend a real problem for the M.E.

    Parent
    Maybe you didn't realize (none / 0) (#78)
    by vicndabx on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:53:41 PM EST
    but my post was a joke.

    No need to take it so seriously.  You're not voting for him anyway so why so serious?

    Parent

    Maybe you should use the snark tag next time (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:02:17 PM EST
    Wouldn't surprise me at all if you really thought Michelle scared him into a bad debate.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#88)
    by vicndabx on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:24:26 PM EST
    alrighty then.

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    Just saw the commercial on TV for (none / 0) (#73)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:19:06 PM EST
    Spielberg's 'Lincoln' for the first time. Daniel Day-Lewis is so perfect I got chills. He nails the Illinois prairie voice, mannerisms, everything I imagine Lincoln to have been like.  There will be tears.

    Can't wait to see it (none / 0) (#79)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 05:57:22 PM EST
    DD-L is one of my favs, and this looks like it's gonna be good.

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    Oh boy, me too. Love DD-L. (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:12:26 PM EST
    This looks like a much better fall for movies than last year. I've seen ads for a few I know I want to see. 'Cloud Atlas' looks interesting, and 'Flight', and others I can't remember at the moment.

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    007 Marathon on CLOO (none / 0) (#96)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 08:35:25 PM EST
    Never heard of the channel, but Goldfinger is on now, followed by Thunderball, followed by Dr No :)

    Channel info

    Woo, woo, woo! (none / 0) (#97)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 08:40:20 PM EST
    Cards beat Atlanta, 6-3!!!
    Go, Cards!
    Sorry, CaseyOR.  Well, sort of sorry, but not really.  ;-)

    Hey, I'm no Braves fan. (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 09:03:34 PM EST
    I'm not going to cheer for the Cards, ever. :-)  But with baseball now in the post-season and the Cubs not, well, I've moved on.

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    As a Cubs fan... (none / 0) (#101)
    by CoralGables on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 09:12:18 PM EST
    have you already moved on from next season too? :)

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    I won't even think about baseball until (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 09:13:55 PM EST
    next February. And then it's a whole new ballgame.

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    Have to admire (none / 0) (#104)
    by CoralGables on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 09:16:07 PM EST
    a true Cubs fan.

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    Are they still playing baseball? (none / 0) (#114)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 06:13:23 AM EST
    Zorba, have you been following the story (none / 0) (#102)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 09:12:49 PM EST
    about the army spraying harmful chemicals over poor, mostly black, neighborhoods in St. Louis? This happened in the mid-50s and again in the mid-60s.

    The feds have admitted spraying parts of St. Louis with zinc cadmium sulfide. Now, it appears the army may have mixed radioactive particles in with the cadmium. That's right, there are indications the U.S. Army was intentionally exposing U.S. citizens to radiation.

    The areas sprayed were poor sections of town. Wouldn't the wind, though, have carried these particles across the city? I don't think radiation stops before it gets to the rich part of town.

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    Yes, indeed (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 09:32:14 PM EST
    My relatives and I have been discussing this.  Mr. Zorba, in fact, lived in such a poor, mixed race neighborhood in the mid-50s.
    And, yes, I'm sure that the radiation was carried to other areas.  Not that it at all excuses dumping it on poor sections of the city.
    But the government has a long history of doing totally stupid and unethical "experiments" on unknowing citizens.
    Look up the Tuskegee syphilis "experiment" and Project MKUltra, among others.

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    TPM (none / 0) (#115)
    by lilburro on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 06:52:14 AM EST
    early poll reports post debate.  Looks like there will be some movement, but not sure how much.  I would advise the President to go back to the debate drawing board nonetheless although I think they're already there...

    It is a tad worrisome when (none / 0) (#140)
    by christinep on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 04:00:05 PM EST
    Rasmussen, We Ask America (rep Nat'l Manufacturers Association) & the prototype moneymen Citizens United quickly set the stage to establish how-close-it-is with day after polls.  My goodness and voila... They just happen to find a rapid closing in Ohio.  Hmmm....and there is Repub Gov Kasich & Romney buddy R Portman...and, do they still manufacture Diebold voting machines there...etc.  My, my...I best watch it lest some conspiracy theory hits me on the head.  

    Y'know, why should all those Repub restrictive voting requirements, in several key states, suggest hanky-panky.  And, why should I worry that certain Repub pollsters might have an interest in showing a sudden close race so that we are not too shocked by Ohio on election day.  

    It is a gloomy day in Denver town today.  Cloudy, raw chill. Myself to self:  Cheer up.

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    I don't think we need to worry yet (none / 0) (#145)
    by lilburro on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 05:25:28 PM EST
    of all the polls cited the Gallup one is the one I found the most interesting.  The fact that polls that generally favor Republicans are finding Romney did well doesn't surprise me.  Plus Obama got a huge haul in September donations-wise, and I have no doubt his ground game is superior to Romney's.  I don't think one debate could be that world beating.  And of course the unemployment #s...if that is part of a sustained trend, I will be happy not just politically but on the merits.  I'd love to have more job options open personally and see more people employed in general.

    All things considered I'd say there is reason for cheer :)

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    I needed to read that...thanks. (none / 0) (#146)
    by christinep on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 07:18:20 PM EST
    My impatience (none / 0) (#149)
    by christinep on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 08:25:17 PM EST
    Just wanted to add that the momentary angst undoubtedly stems from the roller-coaster week. Here we were in Denver: At week's beginning, excited & anxious about the debate--tho expecting a sharper result; registering voters throughtout the week at various events, while calling my group for tomorrow's canvass (w/husband doing lots of the heavy lifting); getting reinvigorated as husband & I attended the rally Thursday with lots of like-minded people of all ages at Sloan's Lake..lucky enough to have tickets for rope line & revved enough to see a fresh, feisty President Obama (and each have a handshake); then, on the down again listening to the Friday night wah-wah pundits after being really lifted by the unemployment/jobs positive numbers earlier Friday; etc.

    In the midst of the feel-sorry-for-myself phase that pounces a month or so before each election day....Maybe I'm spooked by Ohio & the chance that these Repub lackey pollsters (some of whom seem to have just appeared this cycle) could actually drive up "momentum" for Romney and that the media would just pass it along in a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy way.  

    So, husband is off to the Saturday symphony & I begged off this one to sit with my buddy doggy, drink Merlot, fret...and be impatient for the next phase.  Meanwhile, lilburro, thanks again for the entry to my venting.  Tomorrow will be a better day (as Scarlett would say.)

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    Cool you got to go to a rally. (none / 0) (#151)
    by lilburro on Sun Oct 07, 2012 at 09:00:09 AM EST
    Here in TX I doubt I'll be seeing any of those (which is fine, I wouldn't want them to waste their time).  Maybe living in a non-swing state lowers my generalized anxiety (last election I was in the competitive NC).  

    I just don't see Romney undoing all the damage his campaign had done and then some to win this.  But the Obama campaign must be smarter too, and hit back on Medicare.  I'm as interested in how Biden will do as how Obama will do in the next debate.  

    The major media seems to be into their own polling that they issue, and Gallup, sometimes Rasmussen, I don't know that they would adopt a brand new poll.  Usually Zogby comes up with some insane numbers each cycle, those don't seem to do much permanent damage.

    Anyway we'll see what happens.  If debates really mattered, we would've had Kerry over Bush.  Some polling shows a drop in enthusiasm for Romney already.  We'll see.

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    Ah, Sloans Lake (none / 0) (#155)
    by sj on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 11:24:33 AM EST
    Thank you for poking my memory...

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