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Sunday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 08:34:10 PM EST
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The finale of Homeland is tonight.

Update: Once you've seen the finale, here's a two minute video with the show's writer explaining it.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome, including your thoughts on solutions to the problem of mentally disturbed mass killers.

< Obama on the CT School Shootings | Monday Open Thread >

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    Sunday Night Open Thread | 54 comments (54 topical)

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    Once (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by lentinel on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 10:57:39 PM EST
    again, I will reiterate that our government does not set a good example when it comes to the expression of violence.

    We bomb areas and call civilians, including children, who are killed in the process, "collateral damage".

    If we kill a wedding party, wiping out entire families, we extend a hearty apology and that is that. Next case.

    When a drone killed a 16 year old boy, an American citizen, there were no tears. Just an expression by Obama's press secretary that the child should have chosen a different father. (The father was also an American citizen "suspect" targeted by a drone and killed two weeks earlier.)

    We can't preach non-violence and compassion and practice violence and indifference to suffering at the same time.

    Obama on Obama (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:41:44 AM EST
    I don't know that there are a lot of Cubans or Venezuelans, Americans who believe that," Obama said. "The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican." link
    I've been saying that for four years (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by sj on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:10:13 AM EST
    Maybe five.

    Now that he's said so himself I wonder if people will still compulsively deny it and just call me an Obama hater.

    I am totally saving that link.

    Parent

    Charlie Pierce (5.00 / 7) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:50:27 AM EST
    It had been a weekend in which vast schools of red herrings had run through our national millrace. The conspicuous performance-sorrow of the television anchors. (CNN's Don Lemon took to the air at one point and, basically, apologized for having to do his job.) The endless warning to "hug your kids like I'm going home to hug mine." (And good for you.) Truckloads of bad theology. Some oddball moral bullying from right and left. Everything is a red herring if spoken of in isolation. Guns are a red herring, if we don't talk about restricting the access that damaged people have to advanced weaponry in the context of the misbegotten mental-health system in this country. Arm the teachers. Turn every school into a fortress. But don't forget to hug your kid before you send him off to this militarized, narcotic nightmare. In the larger world, the world you could hear going by as you left the highway, there was already an awful congealing of these terrible events in the public mind as something too large to comprehend, and as something with so many causes that it was beyond our ability to anticipate or prevent. One pastor got on TV and blamed "the evil in the heart of man." (Unless you adopt his particular interpretation of monotheism, there is something inherent in you that might put seven bullets into a seven-year old.) This is convenient, because this is something against which we cannot legislate.Read more:


    "Performance-sorrow" (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by ruffian on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 10:48:09 AM EST
    Exactly. In my 5 minutes of watching CBS live I saw it followed immediately by the "silver lining" - their words - of the fact that the first responders responded well. Well bully for them. That is when I turned off the TV.

    Parent
    "Heroes" (5.00 / 8) (#14)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:15:22 AM EST
    Of course, I am amazed by and admiring of the teachers who died, trying to save their students, an those who survived and did save their students.  I think that Obama ought to award all the highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

    Fine.  And I am heartbroken by their stories, believe me, because I am a teacher, and my daughter is a teacher -- of kindergarteners and first graders (a combined class) -- and especially because one of the teachers looks and sounds so much like my daughter that it made my heart stop.

    But the media lionization -- for a few days, 'til we return to demonization - of the teachers as "heroes" has me worried.  My daughter called again to talk through the impact of this upon her and her students.  And I begged her to not be a hero.  I begged her to dive for cover, if a crazy enters her classroom . . . such as the seriously disturbed parent of her seriously disturbed student, about whose behaviors the parents and the principal and other administrators have refused to do a d*mn thing for months now.  You would not believe the daily behaviors of this boy. . . .

    I told her that, if the media and the public want heroes, she is a hero every day for doing what she already does, especially in dealing with that boy.  And that she has done what she needed to do to try to protect the other children -- to little avail -- but she is my child, and I don't want her to be the media's kind of "hero."  I want her to live.

    And I told her that if the parents of the other students want their children to live, they can do their part by pressuring the principals and the pols and others to do their jobs, so that she can do her job.  And the parents and the pols can refrain from returning next week to demonizing teachers and taking away the protections that they had, when they had a union that would have been able to step in and help her remove the seriously disturbed student to get him in the classroom that he needs, so that her 59 other students can get the education that their parents expect her to give them, and that she cannot give them now.

    And now, I have to know more about the security drills at the Newtown school and at her school.  I suspect, from reports of so many teachers taking the same steps at Newtown, that they are the ones being drilled to be this sort of "hero," giving their lives for their students.  If so, and if this is the drill at my daughter's school, we are going to have another conversation about that.

    Go find your "heroes" somewhere else, America.  Heck, do something heroic yourselves.  Demand what  my daughter needs to do her job, so that she can teach your children.  But do not dare demand that she die for them.  Do not dare.  Not my child.

    Parent

    Oh Towanda (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by sj on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:28:48 AM EST
    You spoke right to my heart.

    This morning on whatever "news" magazine was on, George Stephanopolous was in Sandy Hook interviewing the son-in-law of the principal who lost her life.  GS said something to the effect that it must be some comfort that she died a "hero".

    The son-in-law kind of stammered something that might have been agreement, but I can't help wishing he weren't so young and could tell the truth:

    No.  It is not a comfort.  She died insanely and her hero status might make you feel better but it isn't going to bring her back or heal the wounds of the family. She may have already been some relative's hero.  She didn't need to die violently to achieve that.

    Parent

    If that were me on your tv (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:38:28 AM EST
    there would have been a lot of bleeping out of what I would say.  

    Thank you so much for your understanding of what I did say here, sj.  Now, I'm doing the countdown to when we return to normalcy -- when media and parents and the idiots at the bagel shop every morning and more again demonize my daughter . . . and me.  

    I think that it's coming even sooner than I thought, as my governor already bashed me again in the media today.  

    Parent

    I Hear What You are Saying... (none / 0) (#27)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:20:25 PM EST
    ...but come on, the one teacher who put her kids in closets and cabinets then told the gunman they went to gym is something more than any of us.  Dead yes, but the pain she saved many other parents from is remarkable.  There are a lot of people alive to day because of her willingness to put the lives of many before hers.

    She saved lives and sacrificed her own to do it, she knew it.  And while I understand that we would all want our loved ones to live, there is something very noble in saving the lives of children knowing you will most likely die.  Had this been your daughter, are you seriously suggesting she should have hid in the closet and left the children fend for themselves ? I know you aren't, but that seems to be the only alternative in this particular instance.

    I am positive that it would help me with the grieving to know that the person I loved died to save a lot of kids.  It would give me some comfort know that X amount of kids are alive as a direct result of my loved ones actions.

    People were going to die in that classroom, it's just a matter of who and how many.  And this teacher seems to have made sure only one person died, in that room, herself.

    When you are teaching kids there is some expectation because you are the only adult, that you are in charge, that you will do what is best, and that you will try and protect them the best you can.  Diving for cover might be what you want as a parent, but those other parents, the school administrators, and the rest of the community expects a little more.  Maybe not laying you life down, but certainly not diving for cover and leaving the kids to fend for themselves.

    Parent

    You're working through this, I see (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:46:13 PM EST
    with contradicting yourself in the end.  Not easy, is it?

    Okay, try this:  Should a college teacher, teaching grownups, treat them like first-graders? or run for cover and count on grownups to take care of themselves?  

    Should any teacher have to do this, when we are too cheap to provide real protection in our schools and on our campuses? too weak to fight the NRA lobby?

    Should movie ushers -- maybe a student, or maybe a mother or father -- lay down their lives for moviegoers at the next Aurora?

    Should retail clerks -- maybe a student, maybe a mother or father -- lay down their lives for the next mall shooter?

    If that's different, why?  

    Because the audiences isn't students?  What if they are -- what if it's a school field trip in the movie theater?  Movie ushers should do so only if it's a kids' movie, but not for grownups?  Why?  Mall clerks should do so only if it's a children's department but not for misses' or men's?  Why?

    Parent

    Of Course It's Different (none / 0) (#38)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 03:39:18 PM EST
    And any of those situations, one would think adults would try and help kids because they are not capable of helping themselves, doesn't matter if they are employees or not in your other examples.  
    Who the F is not going to help kids in a crisis ?

    To me if you are going to run out the building every time a fire alarm sounds, you probably shouldn't be a teacher.  Part of their job is ensuring the kids are safe, from fires to tornadoes to those infamous bomb drills, they prepare for this and I have never heard of an instance where the kids decide what to do in a crisis.  From what I read, one kid told his teacher not to worry, he was in Karate, you know, these aren't adults who understand what is really going on.

    Not sure why you are trying to draw an analogy to adults.  I sure as hell am not going to listen to the bosses around here should a disgruntled employee decide to shoot up the place.  I am perfectly capable and odds are they re the targets, not me.

    Now ask me about a classroom of 12th graders and that line gets a little more gray, but since we are discussing elementary schools, there isn't much gray area. If you don't want anything to do with the safety of kids, don't teach.  

    It's not there job to inspect the fire system either, or to pat down kids for lighters, but when a fire breaks out, it is there job to make sure everyone gets out in an orderly fashion.  

    Isn't that what you teachers taught us, to listen to you when there was a crisis ?

    I totally agree about other people should be ensuring this stuff doesn't happen, but there is only so much one can do, and like anything else, there should be a plan B.  And short of having an armed guard in each classroom, that plan B falls on the teachers, always has.

    Parent

    I am asking about the analogy of adults (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 04:00:46 PM EST
    because others of us teach adults.  At colleges, not just in high schools -- both more often the targets.

    You want to discuss only elementary schools, because only those students are cute and tear at our hearts this way, fine.  But I am not discussing only elementary schools.  I am discussing all of the targets of these mass shooters, from movie theaters to malls to temples to spas to workplaces to whoknowswhatnext.

    I am, then, asking why only teachers are to be heroes -- the same teachers that, at all levels, are demonized on a daily basis these days in this anti-intellectual culture, until the day when we want them to be heroes.  And to be dead.

    I am asking, in the context of this subthread, why we see this media mythologizing of teachers when media need heroes -- and media demonizing of teachers when media need to bash somebody for the schools, and simplistically so, when the problems are the blame of administrators and school boards and voters, because we elect them . . . and we often elect them to be cheap.

    Consider what being cheap may have meant even in wealthy Newtown, where the outside security door just went in weeks ago -- and it was able to be blasted out.  But there were no inside security doors, there were no security cameras, there was no security guard . . . so teachers died, and that wasn't enough to save the children.  They could have had all that security, had they paid for it.  

    Some campuses do have all of that and more, but private campuses not reliant on cheap taxpayers.

    Some movie theaters and malls do, too, also are not reliant on taxpayers.  And, despite the horror of the mass murders that we have seen at those sites, I have seen the statistics on how many potential crimes do not occur when there is proper security to catch the crazies in time.

    We could be doing more, in addition to changing gun control laws and mental health laws.  We could stop being so cheap, so that schools and colleges could be safer.  Or we could lull ourselves with media mythologies for a few days, and feel all warm and fuzzy that someone else's children will die for our children, and then we can forget again.

    Parent

    Agreed... (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:02:30 AM EST
    And actually, I wanted to discuss elementary schools because this incident was at an elementary school and we have a specific set of circumstance, not hypothetical.

    You don't need to sell me on the importance of teachers, I am a champion of their fight.  It's pure non-sense how we routinely put burdens on them that are not theirs to bare and I think it is a travesty that they are not one of the best paid professions.  

    I distinctly remember my parents complaining when I was in like 8th grade about the salaries of one of my brothers friends parents, bother were teachers.  They couldn't believe how much they made.  The salaries were printed in our small town paper.  I remember telling them that Mr Swanson was one of my favorite teachers.  But mostly I remember them laughing at me like I was a child, which I was I guess, and acting like that had nothing to do with anything.

    I really don't know what to say about the continuing cheapness of America in regards to things that really effect our future like schools/teachers and infrastructure.  Seems like an discussion for one of our resident anti-tax republicans, I am all for giving them what they need.

    Parent

    Lemon's admonition to go home (none / 0) (#34)
    by DFLer on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:43:00 PM EST
    reminds me of a beautiful song by a friend of mine...Go Home

    GO HOME AND HUG YOUR KIDS AND DON'T LET A DAY GO BY
    WITHOUT TELLING THEM THAT YOU LOVE THEM

    You can hear a segmnet...with this chorus on his
    CD Baby page  (song # 14)

    Parent

    Depressing... (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 10:58:05 AM EST
    For years now I have blocked out news on the weekends, including anything political.

    Basically from when I leave work on Friday until I get up Monday I am in blackout mode.  So beyond the snippets from all day yesterday while watching football, I haven't read/seen much about the CT shootings.

    I turn on my TV today and they had just started reading the names, man did that hit me hard.  Not sure why reading them makes much of a difference, but it does.  Nearly every first name reminded me of someone I am close to, and how lucky I am that it's not one of them.

    For me it's really just taken the part of Christmas that I really like, the infectiousness of everyone being in really good moods.  And just as important, that we are so divided that solutions have become political, even before they are proposed.  And how I know in my heart, that this will happen many more times in my lifetime.  

    That is just straight-up depressing.

    When Obama said the names in his speech last night (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by ruffian on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:29:50 PM EST
    It was almost physical pain with every one, and knowing that there were going to be so many more made it worse.

    It was one of the rare times a pol said exactly what I had been thinking all weekend. We can't call ourselves a great or even a good country when we can't even do this much for our children. It has to change.

    Parent

    I had the same reaction (none / 0) (#13)
    by sj on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:13:32 AM EST
    when reading names and ages this weekend.  Six and seven year olds.

    It's a blow to the solar plexus.

    Parent

    On a different note (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:58:37 AM EST
    Last night, right after it turned dark, sirens from multiple vehicles blasted by my house. From the sounds of it, I thought the whole neighborhood must be on fire.

    Away to the window I flew like a flash,
    Tore open the shutters, and threw up the sash
    ...
    When, what to my wondering eyes should appear

    Multiple fire trucks and emergency vehicles instead of reindeer. One cheerfully decorated vehicle had Santa and his sleigh mounted on bed of the truck. He, to the delight of the children, spent several minutes going up and down the neighborhood shouting HO, Ho, HO and Merry Christmas.

     

    My adult niece, who grew up in (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 10:24:24 PM EST
    Indialantic FL, yells "Santa's coming"!!!!!!

    Parent
    Anonymous & Westboro Baptist Church (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:49:00 PM EST
    I wish WBC would just go away, how anyone can believe in a god that supposedly kills innocent people because of it's hatred of gay people, is beyond me.

    On Saturday, Westboro Baptist Church spokesperson Shirley Phelps-Roper tweeted that the group would be protesting the vigil in Newtown, Conn., to "sing praise to God for the glory of his work in executing his judgment."

    Anonymous apparently vowed retaliation as part of #OpWestBor in a video posted to Vimeo under the handle KY Anonymous. "We will not allow you to corrupt the minds of America with your seeds of hatred," says the voice-over in the video. "We will not allow you to inspire aggression to the social factions which you deem inferior. We will render you obsolete. We will destroy you. We are coming."

    LINK

    Apparently they have already printed the names, addresses, and phone numbers of every adult member of the WBC.

    Kind of in line with Mike Huckabee. (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:59:10 PM EST
    The former presidential candidate and one-time governor of Arkansas blamed the Newtown shootings on the removal of god and religion from the public schools. He made these remarks on, of course, FOX.

    Cavuto: People will ask after tragedies like this, "How could God let this happen?"

    Huckabee: Well, you know, it's an interesting thing. When we ask why there is violence in our schools, but we've systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools have become a place for carnage because we've made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability? That we're not just going to have to be accountable to the police, if they catch us. But one day, we will stand in judgment before a holy God in judgement. If we don't believe that, we don't fear that.

    God wasn't armed. He didn't go to the school, but God will be there in the form of a lot of people with hugs and with therapy and a whole lot of ways. ... Maybe we oughta let him in on the front and we wouldn't have to call him when it's all said and done on the back end.

    Here is a link to the story and video of Huckabee with Neal Cavuto.

    Parent

    Seems Like Their God... (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:22:36 PM EST
    ...is a terrorist, killing innocent people to make some sort of political point.

    Parent
    And a spiteful d*ck...n/t (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:54:00 PM EST


    Parent
    You envision a male (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 10:27:18 PM EST
    Supreme deity?

    Parent
    In my vernacular... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 07:56:52 AM EST
    d&ckishness is gender nuetral;)

    Parent
    As it should be. (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by caseyOR on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 02:03:15 PM EST
    D&ckishness knows no gender boundaries. Why, one of the  biggest d&cks around is Ms. Ann Coulter, followed closely by Ms.Megan McArdle.

    Parent
    Ha! (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 09:26:58 AM EST


    Parent
    In my house it is gender neutral too :) (none / 0) (#49)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:51:18 AM EST


    Parent
    No Casey (2.00 / 2) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:22:15 PM EST
    There is absolutely no connection between the WBC idiots and what Huckabee said.

    And you gotta know that so why did you post your comment?

    Parent

    Actually, there doesn't seem to be (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:34:50 PM EST
    much difference between them at all.

    Parent
    God goes away and pouts (none / 0) (#51)
    by jondee on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:58:41 PM EST
    if he's not explicitly made the center of attention..

    God the narcissicist..God the prima donna..

    Parent

    Why, yes there is a connection, Jim. (5.00 / 6) (#31)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:35:04 PM EST
    Huckabee is certainly more personable than anyone associated with Westboro, but the beliefs he espouses are one and the same.

    Huckabee doesn't demonstrate at memorial services. Instead, he goes on TV and makes claims that "God is punishing America for " some fact of life that Huckabee doesn't like. It could be no prayer in public schools or womens' reproductive health or same-sex marriage or teh gays in general or any of a number of things that Huckabee and Westboro and so very many others on the right find icky.

    They all dwell in the same muck.

    Parent

    Exactly. And "muck" is being charitable. (5.00 / 5) (#32)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:36:39 PM EST


    Parent
    Not trying to make this a religious argument... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Eddpsair on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 04:04:28 PM EST
    Because I think that is off topic.  

    But he was talking about "free will".

    He was paraphrasing a parent of Columbine shooting's testimony before congress.  Perhaps you should google it rather than rely on a filtered version.

    But feel free to continue in ad hominiem.  

    Hmmm. President Obama invoked God in conjunction with this event.   Is your contention that he was just faking it?  Or is it that he is ignorant too?  

    While still refraining from Judeo/Christian centric arguments, id still like to ask: how do we account for the fact that thought out our history, guns have been more accessible to the public but crime rates, even in Dodge City and Tombstone were a fraction of today's big cities....  

    We are so much more enlightened today...yet we can no longer be trusted  to not kill each other.  And the only solution is to remove the means, rather than the motive.  

    Social mores have historically been driven by religion in most societies.   Perhaps it is just a bunch of ignorant shamans.  But the argument that there has been a price to society for removing that engine for driving social mores without replacing it, is not a comforting one.

    We tend rely on our own inmate moral judgements now.

    I assure you, Lanza felt perfectly justified in what he did in his mind.   He planned it for day's if not weeks.  It was not a spur of the moment thing.  He planned it.  

    No biggie for him. He was highly intelligent and realized that as long as you kill yourself, you escape any eternal retribution. And this life was no longer worth living.  Get some payback and hurt people.

    Sorry if I am off topic, but I felt  this whole line of religion bashing was a bit off topic.  

    Guns, mental health, video games, Hollywood, bullying, social mores....  IMO they all fit into the puzzle.  

    Parent

    Yes, there is, Jim (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:00:39 PM EST
    The WBC is claiming this attack was God's will.  Huckabee and Bryan Fischer of the AFA claiming that God allowed this to happen because we have outed God from the public domain and schools.

    They're ridiculous.

    Parent

    The end of an era is approaching. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:33:38 AM EST
    U.S. Sen. Daniel Inouye, 88, the most senior U.S. senator who has represented Hawaii in Congress since statehood was first achieved in 1959, is suffering from what doctors characterize as "respiratory complications," and remains hospitalized at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Washington with no prediction as to when he might be released, Deputy Chief of Staff Peter Boylan said tonight.

    While most of you know him as the Chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee, and a few more of you might recall his service as a member of Sam Ervin's Senate special committes investigating the Watergate scandal back in 1973, from a local perspective, Sen. Inouye is the last man standing among John Burns' intensely loyal and disciplined cadre of liberal Democrats, 90% of whom were Japanese-American World War II veterans.

    Back in November 1954, Burns and Inouye and a brilliant political strategist named Robert Oshiro masterminded the Hawaii Democrats' decisive political rout of the ruling white Republican corporate oligarchy, which heretofore had held its foot to the throat of the islands ever since the successful U.S.-led military coup d'etat in 1893 toppled the constitutional monarchy of Queen Lili'uokalani, and the United States unilaterally annexed her kingdom five years later. The self-styled "Revolution of '54" remains the watershed moment in modern Hawaiian politics.

    And in the long history of island politics stretching back to the days of King Kamehameha and Queen Ka'ahumanu, it's not overststing the case to say than Dan Inouye is truly one of the giants. Tonight's report serves to remind us that he is now an increasingly frail old man, and his era is perhaps closing upon us faster than we'd like to think.

    My best wishes and aloha are with the senator, wife Irene and son Ken.

    I just read that he passed away today. (none / 0) (#40)
    by Angel on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:44:23 PM EST


    Parent
    You better not pout, I'm telling you why. (none / 0) (#3)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 03:50:25 AM EST
    Santa Claus is coming to town - unless you're in a smoke-free building. Then you're out of luck.

    "When what to my wondrous eyes should appear,
    But a miniature sleigh and eight tiny reindeer,
    With a little old driver, so lively and quick,
     I knew in a moment it must be St. Ni--"
    -- aah, on second thought, scratch that.

    Merry Christmas from San Juan, PR Mayor Jorge Santini and family.

    And finally, Happy Hanukkah from Rick Santorum -- and Jesus?

    Happy Monday morning, everyone. Let's all have a good week, okay?

    Aloha.

    That... Was... AweSome (none / 0) (#17)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:34:48 AM EST
    Doing it in my best Chris Farley in 'Black Sheep' Voice.

    Parent
    It kinda gives a new twist to ... (none / 0) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 12:46:46 PM EST
    ... the term "deer in the headlights," doesn't it?

    Parent
    Had to Be Someone From Wisconsin... (none / 0) (#22)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:39:45 PM EST
    ...just had to be.

    Parent
    Jeralyn: David Headley (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:29:53 AM EST
    made the front page today. Above the fold. Thanks to Mr. Malik.

    The Times of India

    Type of propaganda being spewed (none / 0) (#6)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 08:37:01 AM EST
    to sell cutting domestic and safety net programs.

    Deficit deal offers chance for salvation for the 112th Congress

    The historically unpopular 112th Congress has one final chance at redemption: two weeks to strike the deficit deal that has eluded it for nearly two years.

    For the current crop of congressmen, the long-running battle over taxes and spending will culminate in the kind of year-end showdown that voters have come both to expect and fear from Washington.
    Yves Smith, Bruce Bartlett and (none / 0) (#8)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 10:43:52 AM EST
    Bill Moyers discuss "fiscal cliff." VIDEO

    No luck in South Carolina (none / 0) (#11)
    by CoralGables on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:02:55 AM EST
    Nikki Haley about to name a Jim DeMint mini me to the Senate. It's supposed to be Congressman Tim Scott who is rated 0.0 by the ACLU, AFL-CIO, Planned Parenthood, and the Sierra Club. Conservatives might be upset because he only scored a 96.0 with the American Conservative Union while Demint has a lifetime 98.77

    Did you (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:41:46 PM EST
    expect anything different. The good news is that Ole Dimwit will probably do for the think tank what he has done for the GOP: start rolling it toward the garbage can.

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    Expect? no (none / 0) (#25)
    by CoralGables on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:55:06 PM EST
    Hope? always

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    Scott to the left of DeMint? (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:39:04 PM EST
    Think Progress chronicles some of his more notorious positions:

    Floated impeaching Obama over the debt ceiling. As the debt ceiling debate raged in the summer of 2011 because of the intransigence of Tea Party freshmen like Scott, the nation inched perilously close to defaulting on its obligations. One option discussed by some officials to avoid that scenario was for the president to assert that the debt ceiling itself was an unconstitutional infringement on the 14th Amendment. However, Tim Scott told a South Carolina Tea Party group that if Obama were to go this route, it would be an "impeachable act."

    Proposed a bill to cut off food stamps for entire families if one member went on strike. One of the most anti-union members of Congress, Scott proposed a bill two months after entering Congress in 2011 to kick families off food stamps if one adult were participating in a strike. Scott's legislation made no exception for children or other dependents.

    Wanted to spend an unlimited amount of money to display Ten Commandments outside county building. When Scott was on the Charleston County Council, one of his primary issues was displaying the Ten Commandments outside the Council building. According to the Augusta Chronicle, Scott said the display "would remind council members and speakers the moral absolutes they should follow." When he was sued for violating the Constitution and a Circuit Judge's orders, Scott was nonplussed: "Whatever it costs in the pursuit of this goal (of displaying the Commandments) is worth it."

    Defended fairness of giving billions in subsidies to Big Oil. Scott and his Republican allies in Congress voted repeatedly last year to protect more than $50 billion in taxpayer subsidies for Big Oil corporations. When ThinkProgress asked Scott whether it was fair to do that, especially at a time when oil companies are earning tens of billions in profit every quarter, the Tea Party freshman defended the industry: "fair is a relative word," said Scott.

    Helped slash South Carolina's HIV/AIDS budget. As a state representative, Scott backed a proposal to cut the state's entire HIV/AIDS budget, despite the fact that South Carolina ranks in the top-third of reported AIDS cases. The cuts were ultimately included in the state's budget, impacting more than 2,000 HIV-positive South Carolinians who needed help paying for their medication.



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    He's downright dangerous (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 03:22:01 PM EST
    Cutting food stamps and slashing the budget for HIV/AIDS. How stupid can a person be?

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    Is Clarence Thomas his guru? (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 10:22:05 PM EST


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    And Jesse Jackson won the SC (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:21:01 AM EST
    Dem. primary twice!

    NYT:  The move will make Mr. Scott the first black senator from the South since the late 19th century.

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    Why mention just the south? (none / 0) (#42)
    by coast on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:45:39 PM EST
    Only 3 states have ever elected a black senator, so it doesn't sound as if any other part of the country making much progress either.

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    Your comment so surprised me (none / 0) (#43)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 10:20:16 PM EST
    I "fact-checked" it. Correctomundo.

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    He wasn't elected (none / 0) (#53)
    by Yman on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 08:29:02 PM EST
    He was appointed to the Senate.

    But - while they're is much progress to be made in terms of electing AAs to office (particularly the Senate - you would think the South would have made more progress, given the much higher percentage of AAs in the population in many of those states.

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    Sunday Night Open Thread | 54 comments (54 topical)

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