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Sunday Open Thread

I'm still focused on the Grammy Awards show and Whitney Houston. The latest: Her daughter, 19 year old Bobbi Kristina, has been taken by ambulance from the Beverly Hilton to the hospital, for issues reportedly related to her emotional distraught over her mother's death.

Check out Big Tent Democrat's post at Daily Kos, E.J. Dionne Breaks Faith With Progressive Values.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Abortion (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by denise k on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 04:21:15 PM EST
    Have you seen this? Anatomy of an Unsafe Abortion. This is, in the memory of many women alive today, the experience of abortion before Roe.  I was 14 or so when Roe was handed down and it had an instant impact on my life and the lives of all of the women around me.  This experience has fallen into the collective memory hole for too many.  Outlawing abortion does not mean abortions will go away, it just means that they go underground.  Never a good solution...  

    We need more of this (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 04:36:28 PM EST
    We need a good book written about those that were lost, and those they left behind.  I was seven when abortion became legal.  It is now my time to fight though.  I need better tools.

    Parent
    I was 25 (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Zorba on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 05:26:36 PM EST
    when abortion became legal.  I have a friend who, in her younger days, had an illegal, "back alley" abortion.  It didn't kill her, but it was so botched that she wound up with a lot of medical complications and the inability to bear any more children, ever.  So, yes, we need much more light shed on this.

    Parent
    May I suggest (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 06:24:16 PM EST
    Ellen Chesler's book

    Margaret Sanger: A Woman of Valor

    Parent

    That particular book is 20 years old (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 07:48:48 AM EST
    We need more documentation in current language and nuance of what was lost before we lose the survivors.  If I didn't have Josh right now, that might even be a journey that I would embark on.  

    Parent
    It may be old (none / 0) (#24)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 08:47:15 AM EST
    but it gives a clear and compelling portrayal of the effects of forcing abortions into the back room.  

    Parent
    All true (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 10:01:45 AM EST
    But it is important to stay current.  It is very important and it is an area that the pro-choice movement has lost and lost and lost on.  We have not stayed current in the debate and we have allowed the discussion of the life and death circumstances to become taboo to speak of.  We are ashamed to show our faces, so that the stories could become one with a face and a real person.

    Parent
    This movie (none / 0) (#25)
    by smott on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 09:28:57 AM EST
    Spans several time frames...the vignette with Demi Moore is riveting.

    If These Walls COuld Talk

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116607/


    Parent

    It is good (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 10:03:59 AM EST
    I've seen it several times.  Real people though sharing a real life experience, it trumps "fictional" works when we must debate real life circumstances and consequences.

    Parent
    There is a terrific documentary on this subject (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 10:41:30 PM EST
    called "Motherless," by Janet Goldwater and others.

    Parent
    i don't comment at DK (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by The Addams Family on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 05:18:44 PM EST
    so i will here: good on BTD

    I dont even visit (none / 0) (#12)
    by Left of the Left on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 07:27:12 PM EST
    My loss I guess.

    Parent
    Sometime we forget how young our (5.00 / 8) (#13)
    by loveed on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 08:11:17 PM EST
    country is. Slavery ended between 1863-1865. Emancipation 1863. My husband and his mother take a yearly vacation to Buffalo,NY to celebrate Juneteenth.  link.
      I told you guys about my sister in my last post on my black history.
      Now I will tell you about the most prejudice person in my life. I also told you I lived in a black and white world. And no white person has ever called me a ni***a.
      I grew up around all black people. The only time I saw white people was on TV or when my mom took me down town. TV was also black and white.
      We did not have southern roots or the deep religious roots that most black people had. I still have never been to Alabama or Mississippi.
      I was born in 1953, my mom in 1919, my grandmother 1900.
      Slavery ended in 1863, but the ramification still exit today.
      The most prejudice person in my life was my grandmother. She died when I was 7yrs. old. She hated her dark skinned grandchildren. She was very dark herself. My older brother and sister are very fair. My oldest brother looks just like Smokey Robinson. We had different fathers.
      My mom had five children. She never knew her mother until she was 21. Her mom left her with her parents when she was a baby. My grandmothers brothers and sisters did the same thing. I never knew my mom was a only child. I found this out when she died. All my life I thought my cousins was my moms sisters. They all grew up together at there grandparent home.
      She use to call me '' black nappy haired ni##a'' all the time, also a black heathen(even today I hate my hair). I did not know what a heathen was.
      My moms 3 youngest children was dark. my brother who is a year older, is probably a shade lighter than my older brother and me.
      My grandmother would beat my older brother and me all the time with anything available(belts ,shoes,curtain rods,switches) . We would hide from her. We dreaded when she came to visit. My middle brother she spoiled him. Sending him gift. His meals served first.
      I remember coming home from school for lunch, the police was putting her body on the stretcher. She had fallen in the bathroom and hit her head on the tub. My mom and sister was crying. Me I felt relief.
      In my black and white world, being called black was worse than being called a Ni@@a(pre James brown song I Am black and I'm proud) . The color of your skin matter in the black community. The lighter your skin the better you were treated. Especially in all black schools.
      Hair was also a big deal. All black people wanted long good hair. This still persist today. Chris Rock made a movie recently called "Good Hair".
      My oldest brother who looked like Smokey, called me his pretty girl. He still calls me that today. I adored him as a child. He is 17yrs older. And I believed him. I did not grow up with the self hatred that a lot of blacks had about the color of there skin, but I hated my hair.
      Thick coarse long nappy hair. My mom would wash my hair on friday, so it would be dry by monday. Pressing my hair took 2 people and a lot of time.
      I often think about my grandmother. And have forgiven her. I try to understand what her life was like. She married 6 times. Traveled all over the country. My grandfather was Canadian. She also had lots of money.
      She was born so close to the end of slavery. Her father was a free educated man. My mom worshiped him.
      I feel the things she said to us, was said to her. I wish I could ask her.
      My mom grew up with her six cousin. She was light skin with green eyes. Her cousins were dark. She told me they treated her terrible, calling her cat eyes, and that her father was a white man. Children can be so cruel. But they learn from adults.
      But they were all very close in the end. Like sisters.
      You may think I had a horrible childhood, I did not. I had so much love from my family.
      Now I am a grandmother. I remember how I felt, and how easily words can hurt.

    Thank you (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by sj on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 08:25:10 PM EST
    This was open and very moving.

    And if it makes you feel any better, my hair is straight and decidedly NOT thick, and I wished for different hair, too.

    Parent

    Thank You.... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Rojas on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 12:08:35 AM EST
    I appreciate you sharing with us.
    Write that down somewhere where your children can find it, please.

    One of the things we did back in the depression was send these government folks out to take a verbal history. Jesus, I love reading those...

    Both of my parents grew up very poor. That was a sense of shame for them and they would never talk about it. In their passing days they would talk and they would talk about those days....

    Once again I want to say thank you for sharing and if I said anything that you would take offense that was  certainly not my intent.

    Parent

    All weekend (none / 0) (#15)
    by sj on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 08:35:15 PM EST
    I've been hitting "post" too quickly.  

    I meant to add that I also learned things about my Mom when she died.  Things my family knew that somehow never made it into the oral history (which is odd, because the family gossip network was quite open and active).  Things I wish I could ask her about.  Some things that make me appreciate her more, and I wish I could tell her how honored I am that she was my mother.

    Parent

    It's funny how I hate my hair (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by loveed on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 10:46:26 PM EST
    but I get so many compliments. Women always tell me, they wish their hair was thick like mine. My hairdresser luv's cutting it. It takes about an hour. When I go to the hairdresser am there at least 4hr. I wear it short, it still takes an hour to dry.
     The things women go through to be beautiful.

    Parent
    How your hair falls: all physics. (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 11:06:49 PM EST
    read it on line.  Must be true.  

    Parent
    Since when is E.J. Dionne "Progressive"? (none / 0) (#2)
    by ek hornbeck on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 04:27:13 PM EST
    Oh, he plays one on TV.

    Gotcha.

    Grammys? (none / 0) (#4)
    by ks on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 04:38:12 PM EST
    Adele is going to win big.  She has the right combination of timing, sales and critical respect.

    EJ is progressive (none / 0) (#6)
    by koshembos on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 05:20:38 PM EST
    Doubting Dione's progressive beliefs belies a long record of publication and speeches. Actually, I would rather question BTD progressive tendencies. For one, he was a strong supporter of Obama in 2008 when many of us knew Obama not to be progressive.

    Disagreeing on a single policy is a ridiculous reason to object to a person with a decent record.

    what BTD said (none / 0) (#7)
    by The Addams Family on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 05:24:34 PM EST
    is that EJ Dionne has betrayed progressive values - hard to do that if you are not a progressive

    as for BTD, he is a self-described centrist

    Parent

    Life in Iran (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 06:07:51 PM EST
    Life on the Streets: Iran in the Shadow of War
    CounterPunch, January 24, 2012

    As the prospect of a deadly confrontation between Iran and the United States increases, the fate of 78 million Iranians remains absent in the calculus of war on both sides. Invisible in the current war discourse, Iranians are caught between a repressive government with a reckless and dangerous foreign policy, and an outside world largely uninterested in their voices and their lives. "We are trapped. We live under the heavy shadow of war," a resident of Tehran told me.
    [snip]
    The United States and its allies are using elaborate economic sanctions to drain the resources of the Iranian regime, ignite domestic revolt, and force the government to abandon its nuclear ambitions. Sanctions are, however, chocking the Iranian people. While the government continues enriching uranium, sanctions penalize the Iranian people through dizzying increase in the price of food, gasoline and other basic items in ordinary people's basket of consumer goods. Food inflation in Iran is currently at 50%, more than double the official inflation rate.

    Go read the whole thing. It's not very long. Then look around the United States and around your town or city at the results of continuing and deepening economic collapse, and try to imagine the effect of $200 a barrel oil on that economic situation.

    As Gloria Steinem once said...

    "The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off."



    Sunday Worship :-/ (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 07:10:00 PM EST
    According to NBC affiliate in Los Angeles, attorney Ray Boucher has mapped out at least sixty locations of where suspected priests reside in California.

    "Many if not all these priests have admitted to sexual abuse," Boucher told NBC Los Angeles. "They live within a mile of 1,500 playgrounds, schools and daycare centers."

    One of the alleged victims, Dan Smith, graphically detailed his incident with a local priest when he was a child.

    "He would rape me and then say this is what God's love feels like," Smith told Los Angeles NBC.

    video and article at RawStory

    "within a mile" (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 10:47:46 PM EST
    ... of a school or playground?! Give me a break. That's just fear-mongering, not reportage.

    Parent
    What do you think he should do (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 06:31:05 AM EST
    if it is factual? Not report it?

    Parent
    I don't want to speak for Peter (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by sj on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 11:20:42 AM EST
    but the "within a mile" restriction is almost impossible to observe unless everyone on the offenders registry were to live in only the most remote areas.  And since it is shockingly easy to get ON the registry for WTF reasons, the reporting of it really is fear mongering in my view.

    Please understand that I am making no excuses for the priests guilty of child molestation.  Even as a lapsed Catholic, that brings up bile.  The "Holy Church" has shown a most unholy side in pretty much all aspects of this problem.  But the offenders registry is unholy as well.

    Parent

    If something is true, but of absolutely (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 07:41:11 PM EST
    no significance, then reporting it suggests that the fact has some sort of significance.  That, in turn, makes it bad reporting.

    Parent
    I guess then (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 08:49:08 PM EST
    Boucher thinks it has some significance...

    Parent
    Obviously, he does. And I think (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 09:26:50 PM EST
    he's totally wrong. That was my point.

    Parent
    I really didn't notice it (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 09:30:53 PM EST
    when I posted the quote. I was focused more on what Smith said...

    Parent
    How handy... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 07:03:36 AM EST
    Obama anchors budget [bullsh*t] on tax hikes for the rich

    US President Barack Obama will Monday roll out a populist election-year budget, challenging Republicans to support his job creation drive and to finally agree to hike taxes on the richest Americans.

    Obama will use his annual spending plan to flesh out his pledge to build a new economy in which every American gets a "fair shot" and the rich pay what the president calls a "fair share," senior officials said.

    His proposal will be seen as a highly political document, given its timing as Obama gears up his reelection fight and the fact it follows spending guidelines from a deficit control agreement with Republicans in September.

    The budget is also unlikely ever to come into force, as Democratic Senate Majority leader Harry Reid has said there will be no vote on a budget proposal this year, due to the already agreed spending guidelines.

    The photo of Obama giving Warren Buffet a medal is good theater though...

    Bank Settlement (none / 0) (#26)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 09:52:15 AM EST
    Greece is burning (none / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 10:11:33 AM EST
    this is what was going on outside the Greek Paliament while the austerity vote was being taken inside.

    ...

    Fire has a nasty habit of spreading when gasoline is poured on it. I don't think it respects national borders, either...

    New two-part, four-hour doc (none / 0) (#30)
    by brodie on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 10:21:12 AM EST
    on Bill Clinton to air Feb 20 and 21 on PBS' American Experience.  Doc will also air in UK.

    Sixty-one people interviewed, fifty of whom will appear on camera.  Supposedly there's a substantial portion devoted to the extramarital stuff.  Wouldn't surprise me if that is the case.

    I'll be tuning in with the expectation Bill will be treated a little more harshly by PBS than he deserves.

    One hour, 25% of the program, (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by caseyOR on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 10:24:26 AM EST
    will be devoted to the "extramarital stuff."  Because, apparently, in a public service career that spans 4 decades, there just isn't enough other material to fill 4 hours.

    Parent
    then surely a good 75 percent (none / 0) (#34)
    by The Addams Family on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 07:53:50 PM EST
    of that 25 percent should be devoted to Hillary, "cankles" & guffaw & murderous ways & all

    Parent