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Wednesday Afternoon Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 02:31:13 PM EST
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I'll be offline this afternoon, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Wednesday Afternoon Open Thread | 73 comments (73 topical)

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    Anybody fiending for another war? (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 03:17:05 PM EST
    Chuckie Schumer has got your back...War on Synthetic Reefer.

    I'm with Rand Paul on this one.

    Interesting to note that this synthetic crap is popular with (drumroll please)....those who fear arrest and those who are subject to regular drug-testing for their employment.  No sh*t.  So if we end the prohibition on the good stuff, that should be sufficient to lesses the scourge of synthetic reefer....no new prohibition required, just repeal an old one.  Could work to lessen the meth scourge too, if we end cocaine prohibition.

    But I guess there is no chains and cages in any of that.

    They Will Never Understand (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 03:49:57 PM EST
    That a lot of human beings like getting high, and no matter what they do, those human beings will get high, whether its growing/cooking their own or paying someone else to get it.  If the war on drugs has taught us anything, is that basic human need for many can not be controlled.

    "I don't get it.", Schumer says sipping his scotch...

    Parent

    Classic Schumer... (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 03:57:11 PM EST
    he loves this kinda nonsense, gets his name in the paper for reasons other than giving Wall St. perpetual bl*wj*bs for 14 years.

    Absolutely right...Caveman & Cavewoman were eating, drinking, and burning sh&t to get high, or dying trying.  

    Accept it while attempting to minimize the societal costs, or go to war with it and increasing the negative societal costs.  These are our choices.

    Parent

    There's (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by lentinel on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:12:32 PM EST
    big bucks in prohibition, imo.

    It's an industry that has a symbiotic relationship with the drug-dealers. Each keep the other in business. The war keeps the drug-busters in business. The war keeps the price of a weed sky high.

    In addition, it gives the government the added perk of being able to do whatever the fk they want whenever they want. They can bug anybody. They can break into anybody's home. They can stop anybody. They can shoot anybody. They can kill anybody.

    Heaven.

    Parent

    Too true, unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:16:07 PM EST
    I think Edger also makes a good point (comment #9, below) about the private prison industry.  The prison-industrial complex makes more money, too, if more people are locked up.

    Parent
    Yes... (5.00 / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:34:30 PM EST
    don't we all know it.

    Money, the most dangerous addiction of all.  Kills and/or harms more people than all the drugs in the world put together...in a landslide.

    Parent

    I Would Change You Words... (none / 0) (#59)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 10:06:03 AM EST
    ...from

    Accept it while attempting to minimize the societal costs, or go to war with it and increasing the negative societal costs.  These are our choices.

    ...to

    Embrace it while maximizing the economical profits, or go to war with it and increasing the negative societal costs.  These are our choices.


    Parent
    Well, if you've ever seen (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:09:46 PM EST
    a cat react to catnip, you'll realize that we're not the only species that likes to get high.  Horses can become addicted to locoweed, even though it is toxic and will cause death if consumed over a short period of time.  A recent study indicates that male fruit flies which are thwarted from mating are more attracted to alcohol than the sexually successful male fruit flies; hhhmmmm, sounds like some human males I know.   ;-)
    So, the urge to get high on whatever is available is not restricted to humans.  Prohibition laws never work.
    PS, Excellent zinger directed at Schumer, BTW, Scott.  

    Parent
    My dog eats mushrooms he finds in the grass (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:13:22 PM EST
    He is obsessed with them. He has such a stoner attitude anyway that I can't tell if he gets high.

    Parent
    Did they check to see... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 05:29:23 PM EST
    if the successful male fruit flies had a sip or two before they found success?  Or if the thwarted found success after loosening up by taking the edge off? ;)

    Interesting stuff...googling around I see psychedelics are pretty popular in the animal kingdom.  And really interesting...the reindeer who filter toxic psychedelic mushrooms to allow for human consumption.  

    Parent

    I saw that, too (none / 0) (#29)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 05:39:51 PM EST
    But I'm just not sure that you'd be willing to drink reindeer urine, no matter how much you wanted to get high.  You probably ran across this website.  I don't think that you would be willing to scrape your teeth down to the gum-line to get high on narcotic lichen either, as some bighorn sheep are said to do.

    Parent
    I wouldn't totally rule out... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 05:49:42 PM EST
    the reindeer urine...I can't imagine its that much worse than the old cleansing tea one had to drink prior to advances in masking agent development.

    And we could use a tool to score some lichen, see what the bighorns are turned on to...there sure do go out of their way to get a hit.

     

    Parent

    Eeeewwww! (none / 0) (#31)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 05:56:51 PM EST
    Kdog, please tell me that you wouldn't drink reindeer p!ss.

    Parent
    Zorba (none / 0) (#58)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 10:00:17 AM EST
    If one likes certain illegal substances, surely they have had something that was stored in a rectum.  Doing lines off the urinal is so cliche' that... whatever.

    Trust me, if Reindeer urine was available, it would go like hotcakes, and then some.  I'm just curious if one serves it warm or on ice.

    Parent

    Whats really nasty is... (none / 0) (#61)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 11:57:44 AM EST
    the humans would then use their psychedelic pee to attract more reindeer, rinse and repeat...I tell ya, thats getting the most out of every dose!

    Nature is amazing.

    Parent

    Think of Santa! (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 12:19:10 PM EST
    The elves,  I don' t trust.

    Parent
    Have you been googling? (none / 0) (#65)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 12:47:09 PM EST
    One theory is this shamanic psychedelic ritual may be the origin of the Santa and his flying reindeer legend.

    Parent
    he was thin and kinda Fagin-like (none / 0) (#68)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 01:05:43 PM EST
    (like the character in Oliver Twist) until Coca Cola made him insufferably cheerful, overweight and dressed in bright red and white..

    The reindeer though, could definately have a Siberian shamanism connection..

    Parent

    I actually Thought (none / 0) (#71)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 01:47:47 PM EST
    ...it was know that mushrooms were behind the entire North Pole deal, from Santa to elves to flying reindeer.  That's just a myth ?

    Parent
    How can one prove such things... (none / 0) (#72)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 01:54:41 PM EST
    its a theory that makes a lot of sense to me.  

    Also a theory that makes a lot of sense to explain the legends of Moses, Jesus, Joan of Arc and countless other historical/religous figures who communed with god, or rather claimed to have communed with god.  Trippin' balls all.

    Parent

    Or They Drinking From... (none / 0) (#74)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 03:08:23 PM EST
    ...those Roman lead pipes.  

    Parent
    Someone here obviously hasn't (none / 0) (#66)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 01:00:00 PM EST
    tried Steel Reserve..

    Parent
    Gave Up Malt Liquor... (none / 0) (#75)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 03:16:22 PM EST
    ...years back, when they started cracking down on drinking and driving.  I know I sound like an old man, but now I try and find the lowest alcohol content.  Light beer and it sucks, but better then my a$$ in the hokey.

    And if I'm not driving, I am on the brown liquor.

    Parent

    Big money (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Edger on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:02:46 PM EST
    in for profit chains and cages these days...

    Private prisons for adults were virtually non-existent until the early 1980s, but the number of prisoners in private prisons increased by approximately 1,600 percent between 1990 and 2009.In 2010, the two largest private prison companies alone received nearly $3 billion in revenue.

    --ACLU



    Parent
    To his credit.... (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:39:52 PM EST
    One of Rand's objections to the Schumer bill is that we put enough people in prison.

    To his discredit..."where they can be exposed to radical Islam."

    Though I suppose we can now open the prison gates as part of the war on terror, right Rand?  In which case I could grow to love the war on terror;)

    Parent

    What would (none / 0) (#18)
    by Edger on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:44:32 PM EST
    an alien (illegal or not) think of Rand and Schumer?

    Parent
    The medical establishment in action. (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by lentinel on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:20:25 PM EST
    I read in the Times today that a new study shows that the daily use of aspirin can prevent cancer in a great many cases.

    The article then goes on to say that the daily use of aspirin can induce gastro-intestinal bleeding.

    Two studies. Both, while not contradictory, leave us with no place to turn.

    The obvious answer is that more study is needed.
    The Times ends the article by saying that there will be no more studies. Why? Because they are expensive, and - aspirin IS AN INEXPENSIVE GENERIC DRUG.

    In short, there's no money in it.

    Lovely, ain't it.

    It has also been known (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:59:41 PM EST
    for a long time that daily use of low-dose aspirin can be beneficial in heart attack and stroke prevention in certain populations.  And it is an inexpensive, generic drug, so you're right that there's no money in funding further studies.  But the internal bleeding cannot be minimized, either.  It's just too bad that some governments (ours, or the Brits, or whoever) won't put a lot of money into much more research on this cancer-prevention aspect, too.  Maybe they could find a way to make aspirin use safer for your gastrointestinal tract, for instance.  This is why government funding for basic and clinical medical research is so vital, and that money is being cut in this country (and I would suspect, in Britain, too).  It's just not the case, as fiscal conservatives would have you believe, that "private industry" can do everything better than the government.  Private industry is simply not going to be paying for anything that does not promise to make them a whole lot of money.  

    Parent
    And another.... (none / 0) (#48)
    by robert72 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 08:59:53 PM EST
    aspirin is supposed to help to prevent liver disease.

    Parent
    I bet in powder form... (none / 0) (#33)
    by Dadler on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 06:07:32 PM EST
    ...and blended into a drink or a smoothie, it would probably be much less corrosive internally.  

    Parent
    I also wonder if aspirin's (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 06:22:41 PM EST
    gastrointestinal effects could be minimized by other methods.  The effects of "buffered" aspirin (such as "Bufferin") have been disputed.  There has been a bit of research, although from a few years ago, that indicates that vitamin C (ascorbic acid) might mitigate the gastric damage of aspirin.  Who the he!! knows?  There's just not that much money in finding out how to use aspirin positively without damaging your G-I tract.

    Parent
    no profit to be had (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Dadler on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 07:09:59 PM EST
    and healing is only important if it comes with a sales force and patent protection and tax breaks.

    Parent
    Well, but of course (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 07:28:34 PM EST
    That's the way it is currently, unfortunately.  The profit motive, no matter what field we are talking about, seems to be the main thing.  At the expense of the public good, of course.  :-(

    Parent
    It is good if you are at risk for colon cancer (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 08:24:37 AM EST
    I'm very lucky, a little asprin doesn't bother my tummy at all.  But it isn't the easiest thing to find at the drugstore.  It is on a very low to the floor shelf with a price tag of $1.00 or less.

    Parent
    What is there to say about the "Saints" (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Amiss on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 01:36:07 AM EST
    and their little scuff up. I am sure it is going to end up hurting other teams as well. Pweaonally , the Saints deserved more than they got. To deliberately set out to hurt another player that bad has to come from a warped mind.

    Saints (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 09:31:14 AM EST
    The New Orleans Saints' crush-for-cash bounty system already cost them head coach Sean Payton for all of next season and general manager Mickey Loomis for half of it, plus two second-round draft picks and a $500,000 fine.

    Former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, who oversaw and contributed money to the illegal fund, was suspended indefinitely.

    Unforgiving and unprecedented penalties Wednesday from an NFL determined to rid its sport of hits that aim to knock opponents out of a game.

    Now Commissioner Roger Goodell will turn his attention to possible punishments for two dozen or so defensive players the league's investigation found were involved in the extra payouts that he called "particularly unusual and egregious" and "totally unacceptable."

    LINK

    I read somewhere else they are coming down this hard because they have been hit with a rash of lawsuit from injured players who claim the NFL didn't do enough to prevent this kind of behavior.  The owners are scared.

    Punishment (none / 0) (#60)
    by indy in sc on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 10:26:55 AM EST
    I thought it was too harsh until I heard that the main reason they are coming down is that they warned the Saints twice and they completely disregarded the warnings.  That is Payton did nothing to stop the practice.  After hearing that (coupled with what we know about the long-term effects of injuries under even "normal" circumstances), I began to come around to the Commish's view of things.

    Parent
    Just overheard at the office (none / 0) (#1)
    by CST on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 02:55:31 PM EST
    "Yea, but it's gonna go back down to 50 or 60 this weekend"

    Talking about the weather dejectedly.  Are you kidding me?  This is mid-march, it could be 30!!

    Can you call it an early spring if winter never came and it's mid-summer weather?

    Josh is in a teaching hospital in Atlanta (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 08:33:17 AM EST
    But it is packed today and yesterday out of local necessity.  With an unheard of pollen count of 9000, people who normally don't have problems this time of year are having problems and almost all asthmatics are being triggered.  I spoke to my doctor about it and he said the pollen is so thick that lungs are responding to it like it is dust, so you don't have to be allergic to end up in the hospital.

    Atlanta is gorgeous right now though, everything that blooms in the spring bloomed this week.  The whole city prays for rain tonight though.

    Parent

    From my two years (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 09:57:27 AM EST
    once living just outside Atlanta - if it rains during the day today, watch for the streets and parking lots to look like small yellow rivers as the exorbitant amount of pollen begins to drift away.

    Parent
    Fly like an Eagle... (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 03:29:45 PM EST
    A Dutch engineer was able to fly like a bird thanks to robotically-assisted wings made using Wii controllers and other parts, according to Wired.

    "At one moment you see the ground moving away, and then suddenly you're free, a really intense feeling of freedom," 31-year-old Jarno Smeets said. "The true feeling of flying. A f**king magical moment. The best feeling I have felt in my life."

    -- video at Wired.com

    ha.. could be the last moment in his life too. (none / 0) (#4)
    by observed on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 03:37:34 PM EST
    I'd pass on that adventure.
    I would take a seat on Virgin Galactic though.

    Parent
    I'm Sure the Wright Borothers... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 03:50:59 PM EST
    ...heard that line a time or two.

    Parent
    oh yeah, and single person planes (none / 0) (#34)
    by observed on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 06:12:18 PM EST
    were so safe back then..

    Parent
    Did you notice... (none / 0) (#38)
    by Dadler on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 06:57:20 PM EST
    ...the fairly fresh tire tracks directly below his course and the area he landed on?  They lead out of sight ahead of him as he lands.  Methinks there was a vehicle involved in getting/perhaps keeping him airborne.

    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#41)
    by Edger on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 07:30:09 PM EST
    although I don't see any wires in the video.

    But Wired had added some notes just under the video...

    Update 2:15 pm PDT: We have a follow-up report documenting inconsistencies both in the video and Smeets' online resumes.

    Update 11:15 am PDT: The headline of this post has been changed to reflect that we have not confirmed Smeets' claim.

    Editor's note (March 21, 8:15 am PDT): The authenticity of this video has been questioned (Gizmodo, The Register), but Wired's preliminary analysis by physicist Rhett Allain found nothing in the video that indicates it must be a fake.



    Parent
    It turns out the video was a hoax. (none / 0) (#78)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 08:45:14 PM EST
    Wired magazine reports that engineer Jarno Smeets is actually filmmaker and animator Floris Kaayk, who admitted to the hoax on Dutch TV show  "De Wereld Draait Door" ("The World is Turning").

    Parent
    Tebow trade to Jets (none / 0) (#8)
    by Makarov on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:00:23 PM EST
    is in trouble. Apparently, the Jets front office didn't bother to read Tebow's contract before announcing they traded for him.

    Tebow received a salary advance, not a roster bonus, against his remaining guaranteed years in 2011. If traded, the team receiving is responsible to pay back the value of unrealized contract years, which amounts to $5M today, to the Broncos.

    Since the trade hasn't been filed with the league office yet, it is not official. Now, Jacksonville is reportedly back in the mix to acquire Tebow.

    Memo to those (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:13:02 PM EST
    in the front office:  read the d@mned contracts before making deals or announcements, idiots!  Contracts are written for a reason.  Jeez.  

    Parent
    Seriously (none / 0) (#32)
    by Socraticsilence on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 06:02:50 PM EST
    this is like players showing up out of shape- its literally a basic requirement of your job, this could get someone fired.

    Parent
    msnbc interviews one of the (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 04:57:50 PM EST
    people who co-sponsored FL "Stand your ground" defense.  He says he will leave it to the judicial system but says the law won't help Zimmerman if he was pursuing the young man he shot and killed. FL justifiable homicide rate has zoomed up after this bill became law.  link

    and signed into law (5.00 / 0) (#23)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 05:09:20 PM EST
    by Jeb Bush

    Parent
    I'm sorry, but Kos' "Operation Hilarity" (none / 0) (#28)
    by magster on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 05:36:59 PM EST
    has nothing on the hilarity that is Tebow being traded to the Jets and foul-mothed Rex Ryan, and the revelation that the Jets owe the Broncos $5 million because they didn't read the fine print of Tebow's contract before agreeing to the trade.

    24 hours after the Broncos land Manning, talk radio is all Tebow. The circus wins!

    sj. Email me your mailing address (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 06:22:08 PM EST
    Please and I will snail mail you Cleo

    Okay (none / 0) (#55)
    by sj on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 09:42:45 AM EST
    I will send it tonight.  I didn't see an email from you last night (I can only check email from home) but I got kdog's.  Did I miss one from you?

    Parent
    I sent one yesterday. My e -mail (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 12:02:24 PM EST
    addressmail address is in Latin.  Check trash!

    Parent
    nerd :) (none / 0) (#67)
    by CST on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 01:03:47 PM EST


    Parent
    No spam! (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 01:29:00 PM EST


    Parent
    I love (none / 0) (#70)
    by Zorba on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 01:41:48 PM EST
    that idea!

    Parent
    LOL What a wonderful idea (none / 0) (#73)
    by sj on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 01:59:21 PM EST
    I'll check it out. :)

    Parent
    Just sent another. (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 12:20:11 PM EST


    Parent
    sj. Email me your mailing address (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 06:22:08 PM EST
    Please and I will snail mail you Cleo

    Tebow update (none / 0) (#42)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 07:31:04 PM EST
    the person first reporting the trade snafu today is now saying Denver has granted Tebow his choice of teams between the Jets and Jacksonville.

    Denver (none / 0) (#43)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 07:41:40 PM EST
    now backs off that statement (which makes sense because it sets a terrible precedent)

    Parent
    and after a time out (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 07:51:17 PM EST
    It's still the Jets

    Parent
    Oy. The drama just never ends. (none / 0) (#46)
    by Anne on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 08:22:09 PM EST
    Such is life, I guess, with Tebow on one's roster.

    Which probably means the Jets may be the best place for Tebow - they were no stranger to drama before the Tebow signing, and all things considered, it - the Tebow drama - may be the least of the Jets' issues.

    Parent

    Looks like (none / 0) (#47)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 08:49:10 PM EST
    the Jets save $2.5 million for their 4 hours of complaining. Not a bad day's work.

    Parent
    Dunno; sounds like it could be (none / 0) (#45)
    by Towanda on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 08:07:54 PM EST
    kdog's long-lost twin.

    Watching some old Star Trek (none / 0) (#50)
    by observed on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 07:09:01 AM EST
    Voyager episodes. The quality varies a lot, as I remembered. I also note that the Chakotay character has a unique pairing of terrible writing, and rock-bottom, horrendous acting; the latter delivered in Charlton Heston fully wooden mode. Some levels of bad really take skill, and luck too---who else would have hired that actor for a major role?
    The reset, the etch a sketch? (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 09:00:15 AM EST
    It's on its way out.  Having everyone with their own recording devices and youtube is destroying reset ability.  But it would seem today like a bunch of dinosaur political operatives and pundits refuse to grasp the new reality.

    Once upon a time, filming and videoing everything by Joe average wasn't possible.  And sharing it usually meant finding a captive audience who suffered you.  Those days are so over.  It used to frustrate many political junkies when the pivot came and wiped out their pet issue.  Most though planned for the pivot to the point that the pivot became the norm. Being able to pivot with ease is disappearing though.  

    And You Know Fehrnstrom... (none / 0) (#56)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 09:43:28 AM EST
    ...probably woke-up thinking his Etch A Sketch idea was brilliant.  Today he is contemplating Romney's stance on unemployment benefits.

    The right used to say every liberal is robbery away from becoming a republican.  These days, every conservative is a firing away from becoming a democrat.

    Parent

    On the of the destruction of rightwing Reagan (none / 0) (#76)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 08:11:41 PM EST
    Doctrine, is the best I have to run against Walsh really bluedog Tammy Duckworth?  I'm not buying that yet.  Modern day Conservitism is imploding at that same time as it has blown itself up...it nuked itself.  And the bluedogs are fading fast too.  Sorry, but at this time in history the bluedog don't hunt.

    Sorry...meant to type (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 08:21:50 PM EST
    Eve of destruction

    Parent
    Wednesday Afternoon Open Thread | 73 comments (73 topical)

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