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Sunday Night TV and Open Thread

We must be in May sweeps. I had to use all my DVR's to be able to record all the shows on tonight: Survivor finale, Desperate Housewives series finale, Harry's Law, the Killing, Nurse Jackie and the premiere of a new season of the Next Food Network Star. It will take me all week to watch them all. And tomorrow night a new Bachelorette season begins,

I'm sure there's political and other news tonight, but I spent the day with the TL kid, so I'm not sure what it is.

Here's an open thread, all topics, TV related or not, are welcome. (If you want to discuss Zimmerman, there's a new thread on the case here.)

< O'Mara to get George Zimmerman Discovery Monday | John Edwards Begins Presenting Defense >
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    This is just so infuriating (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by NYShooter on Sun May 13, 2012 at 10:28:26 PM EST
    Didn't anyone read Shakespeare? "The play's the thing."

    Every time you see the advertisement for a new cop/lawyer/whatever show, it's always the same. The female lead has to be beautiful, young, brilliant, and able to outfight a gun wielding murderer.....in her heels.  Then there's the guys. They have to be young, irritating, wise cracking punks who, if they miraculously didn't solve Interpol defying cases, you wouldn't spit on them.

    And that's the Mensa level demographic the networks are catering to.

    No wonder we gave two terms to Man/Boy "W" and Obama is neck in neck with a serial liar for the Presidency.

    And most of the time the murderee (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by ruffian on Mon May 14, 2012 at 11:14:12 AM EST
    is a woman killed on a grotesque way.

    I can't reconcile my distaste for 99% of the shows you describe with my love of "dexter'. Maybe because there is more to it than the sensationalism.

    Meantime I am enjoying the Masterpiece version of 'Little Dorrit' I recorded a few weeks ago.

    Parent

    "...woman killed on a grotesque way." (none / 0) (#24)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 14, 2012 at 11:44:15 AM EST
    except for the time the male Murderdee had his brains sucked out through his nose with a straw.

    At least they didn't say whether this feat was accomplished pre, or post, mortem.

    For THAT, there's a desireable demographic.

    Parent

    lets not forget the underlying (none / 0) (#104)
    by jondee on Thu May 17, 2012 at 12:45:05 PM EST
    subtext: ABSOLUTE EVIL is lurking out there and it's utterly impervious to our understanding and attempts at non-violent rectification..

    Best to not think about it too much, gird our loins (with a concealed weapon) before leaving the house; but most of all, place our absolute trust in the powers that have pledged themselves to protect us. Then immediately cut to commercial by a corporation that of course has our backs at all times (just like those crime fighters)

    Parent

    whaddaya expect? (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by jondee on Wed May 16, 2012 at 12:32:52 PM EST
    the ideal they're shooting for is a nation of non-reflective, impulse buyers..

    Expecting to find anything resembling profundity or spirtual edification on television is like looking for true love in a cathouse.

     

    Parent

    What do I expect? (none / 0) (#102)
    by NYShooter on Thu May 17, 2012 at 01:03:24 AM EST
    Exactly what we're getting.

    Which

    is

    exactly

    why

    it's

    so

    infuriating!

    Parent

    Yeah, well.. (none / 0) (#103)
    by jondee on Thu May 17, 2012 at 12:26:02 PM EST
    they used to at least make tentative gestures in the direction of acknowledging that the audience MIGHT have hearts and minds. They'd throw in a little Jaques Cousteau, or a Hallmark-Paddy Cheyevsky production once in a while..

    That was before these aim-for-the-viscera-always marketing mutants seemingly assumed complete and utter creative control..  

    Parent

    So now... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by desertswine on Sun May 13, 2012 at 10:53:18 PM EST
    the world's not gonna end in December?  I think I'm a little desappointed.

    Not to worry. Mayan research is always (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by oculus on Sun May 13, 2012 at 10:57:41 PM EST
    coming to differing conclusions!

    Parent
    dis. (none / 0) (#6)
    by desertswine on Sun May 13, 2012 at 10:53:58 PM EST
    Community is coming back (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by CST on Mon May 14, 2012 at 08:55:54 AM EST
    Gotta love NBC and their willingness to take a beating in ratings.  Although I still wish they kept Outsourced.  I'm pretty sure my sister and I were the only people on earth who watched it.

    That being said, I haven't watched any of my usual TV lineup this year (Community, Parks and Rec, Glee) because I've either been watching the Wire, which I just finished, or not watching TV at all.  I guess I'll catch it all on netflix at some point.

    But... (none / 0) (#20)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon May 14, 2012 at 11:10:41 AM EST
    Community only coming back for 13 episodes and it is being moved to Friday.  It sure looks like NBC is only interested in keeping it around until it can go into syndication.  Which is too bad since it has been another great season (same goes for P&R) and where will I get my Alison Brie fix?!

    I watched Outsourced as well...

    Parent

    I'll take what I can get (none / 0) (#65)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 08:51:21 AM EST
    Especially since I'm kind of part of the problem given that I don't watch when it's on.

    She's still on Mad Men right?  That's another one I have to catch up on.  Glad to know someone else has a similar sense of humor!

    Parent

    Arizona strikes again.... (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by kdog on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:52:10 AM EST
    Brewer and Co. just gave sc*mbag debt collectors a license to steal...I know it is hot as hell down there, are they trying to turn Arizona into actual hell?

    If they are, they're doing a great job...I will never emigrate there.

    I'm going to miss Harry's Law. (none / 0) (#1)
    by caseyOR on Sun May 13, 2012 at 09:07:55 PM EST
    NBC has decided not to renew Harry's Law for next season. Too bad. I like Kathy Bates, and really, when considering the scope of dramas on network TV, Harry's Law is one of the better ones.

    The viewer demographics, though, show that its viewers are older, and therefore, not all that appealing to the networks.

    I had a feeling that (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Sun May 13, 2012 at 09:23:02 PM EST
    would happen. It's too bad because the writing was really good, as was the acting, particularly Kathy Bates. I loved listening to the closing arguments -- they made for good TV because you would listen to the prosecutor and think, how's the defense going to get around that, and then the defense makes an equally, if not more, compelling argument. I also like that the some of the cases are so far-fetched -- it's unlikely anyone will take the show for being more than  entertainment -- kind of like Ally McBeal and Boston Legal, which were also by David Kelley.

    Harry's Law also did a good job of humanizing the defendants, no matter how serious the charges.

    I knew it skewed to an older audience, but I wonder whether that might not have been different had they set it somewhere a little more exciting than Cincinnati. And some of the supporting characters were a little bland or got predictable after a while. Still, this season, it was " NBC's second most-watched drama series with 8.8 million viewers, just a smidgen behind Smash." I would have given it another season.

    Parent

    Kathy Bates interview: (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Sun May 13, 2012 at 09:53:25 PM EST
    LAT

    She wanted the show to go on.  Says, I've got to make a living.  

    Parent

    'How did they get those guns into the courtroom?' (none / 0) (#27)
    by RonK Seattle on Mon May 14, 2012 at 02:02:16 PM EST
    "We're still working on that."

    I'll bet the screenwriters were, too.

    Good show, anyhow. Sorry to see it go.

    Parent

    Sunday night is our only (none / 0) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 14, 2012 at 08:51:10 AM EST
    big TV night.  We watch 'Once Upon a Time' (Josh loves it), Game of Thrones as a family after checking the level of sex in it at the start, Nurse Jackie as a family after checking the level of sex in it too, and when everyone is asleep I watch the Borgias.

    I started reading Game of Thrones (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by CST on Mon May 14, 2012 at 08:58:52 AM EST
    I watched the first season - don't have HBO anymore though.  I have to say, after reading some of the "sex" scenes I'm a lot more uncomfortable with how they are being portrayed in the show.  Let's just say there is one in the beginning that they unnecessarily turn violent.  It's not that way in the story at all.  And it makes me kind of angry that they decided to take it that way.  Not because it's not "true to the story" that happens all the time with books turned into film.  But because the way they changed it says something to me (not good) about the people making the show.

    Parent
    Another thing they left out (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 14, 2012 at 10:00:19 AM EST
    that I thought was important, and considering the sex scene portrayals you would think wouldn't be that big of a deal, was that Daenerys nursed the baby dragons after her son was stillborn.

    They keep calling her the mother of dragons and she keeps saying that the dragons are her children, and I would think that them being "breastfed" is some key information.  But I guess too mind blowing, while some of the really off the charts sex things are not.  I guess crazy sex sells, and crazy breastfeeding is worrisome :)


    Parent

    Love the Game of Thrones (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Yman on Mon May 14, 2012 at 09:01:20 AM EST
    Just started watching Season 1 with my oldest son (he's 17) - initially had to leave the room during the $ex scenes because it was making him uncomfortable.  Now I stay and he just sort of squirms awkwardly until they're done.

    Great series, though, if you like the genre.  Good writing, photography and general production values.  I think the original plan was one season for each of the five(?) books, so I hope it makes it.  I heard it's a fairly expensive series ($60-70 million/season?), so fingers crossed.

    The Killing is also a good Sunday series.  Haven't tried The Borgias, yet.

    Parent

    The Borgias take too many fact (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 14, 2012 at 10:03:49 AM EST
    liberties for my taste.  It sort of put me off for awhile, but the costumes are awesome and Jeremy Irons as Pope is awesome because how could he not be?  So I didn't give it up.

    Parent
    Yes - I made a point of doing very limited (none / 0) (#22)
    by ruffian on Mon May 14, 2012 at 11:17:54 AM EST
    fact checking since I do love this production. It is even better this year, IMO.

    Parent
    In fairness (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by nyjets on Mon May 14, 2012 at 01:04:51 PM EST
    While a lot of the details on the borgia are off, the overall history is accurate.
    But you are correct, take a lot of the details with a grain of salt.
    And it is a great television program. The three actors who play the pope's kids are excellent.


    Parent
    I just watched the latest episode (none / 0) (#98)
    by ruffian on Tue May 15, 2012 at 10:16:08 PM EST
    That confessional scene with the Pope and Ceasare was so good. A little gem.

    Parent
    that was a great scene (none / 0) (#99)
    by nyjets on Tue May 15, 2012 at 10:29:10 PM EST
    I loved that seen. And the pope was stunned that Ceasare commited the dead.

    And, on a purely gut level, the scene where the pope describes the accident to the mother of his children was great. I had to watch that scene twice/

    Parent

    I bought them in paperback (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 14, 2012 at 09:55:22 AM EST
    as a set after the first season.  I can't remember what I paid for them though.  I don't usually like that sort of thing, and can't put my finger exactly on why this series is different, but I think I might be an addict

    Parent
    They shoot in a few difficult to get to (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 14, 2012 at 10:05:18 AM EST
    locations, but gorgeous.

    Parent
    Feel bad for John Snow (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Yman on Mon May 14, 2012 at 10:17:19 AM EST
    Shooting at "The Wall" aka Iceland.  Beautiful scenery, but he's gotta be wishing he was in Winterfell (Ireland) or King's Landing (Malta/Croatia).

    Brrrrrr ....

    Parent

    I might make GoT my summer (none / 0) (#23)
    by ruffian on Mon May 14, 2012 at 11:20:12 AM EST
    hibernation catch-up series, since I have never watched it.  Too many other shows on Sunday - I can't even record them all.

    Parent
    Pretty addictive (none / 0) (#37)
    by Yman on Mon May 14, 2012 at 03:43:33 PM EST
    There's 10 episodes in the first season (about 55 minutes each).  Hard to watch just one.

    Parent
    Has (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 14, 2012 at 09:04:37 AM EST
    anybody else around here struggled with teenage boys? My son is giving me a run for my money and I'm at my wits end. Right now he is supposed to graduate from high school but we are waiting on a final to find out if he's going to graduate. This has been an ongoing problem with him. He won't hand in work so we have had to cancel numerous vacations and not make summer plans because of his problems with school. Pretty much everytime we punish him we end up punishing ourselves too.

    Not just boys :) (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 14, 2012 at 10:18:21 AM EST
    I wish I had magic words.  I'll try...people with strong personalities usually end up quite successful at the game of life?

    We went through much of this with our daughter, and now she is mostly done.  According to her dad, her brain is done now.  In her peer group, for her age and by her actions I would say she is a good example and leader.  She is not afraid to be who she is and defines her boundaries and standards clearly, very clearly.  It would seem though that adults who are strong within themselves do not often have idyllic teen years.

    When I really wanted to kill her, an old Chaplain kept telling me when my husband was away on deployments that with many teens we build the bridge and they burn it down, we build the bridge and they burn it down.  He had an enormous education in psychology and family dynamics too.  He promised me that this too would pass, but it is the most difficult long term time I've ever had.  I was fit to be tied every single day.

    I think this is a lonely time for many parents too. I also find that I must coach myself that when it happens to her, I will not shut myself in my house alone and cackle wildly for hours with my own reflection in the mirror :)

    Parent

    It is (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 14, 2012 at 02:06:06 PM EST
    VERY lonely. I know a lot of people have lived through all this but when you're doing it it's just no fun at all.

    Parent
    I didn't have boys, but as Tracy says, (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by Anne on Mon May 14, 2012 at 11:00:16 AM EST
    girls can be really challenging, too.   Really challenging.

    They all so want to be done with being kids - they seem to think the adult world is so much more fun, because no one tells you what to do and you don't have to do things you don't want to.  It is so hard not to laugh in their faces when they get like this, because we all know that, short of having the infinite choices being independently wealthy would provide, very few of us have the freedom these kids think we do.

    I used to tell the girls that they had the choice to close the doors to their options and opportunities, or keep them open, and if keeping them open meant doing the stupid homework for courses they "knew" they would never need, or studying for tests they thought were a waste of time, or going to classes they hated, or dealing with teachers they didn't like, then they needed to do that.  That they needed to develop the adult skill of selectively sucking it up to get to what they wanted and where they wanted to be.  

    It's all about whether they are going to let "this is stupid" or "that's not fair" decide what their choices are going to be later, when they can't be undone.

    They can choose to fail; that is actually a choice, I think.  But is that the choice they're trying to make?  What would they tell their own child if they were the parent?

    No one ever tells you how hard it's going to be - well, they try, but we're all so sure that it will never be like that for us, that we won't make the same mistakes others do.   Oh, if only, huh?

    Hang in there, and keep us posted...


    Parent

    why we wanted to be 18 (none / 0) (#25)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 14, 2012 at 11:52:39 AM EST
    "That's my library card?"

    "Oh Dratdit!! I must've grabbed it instead of my draft card at home, and I live two hours away. I so wanted to celebrate a little with my friends before being, you know, shipped out."


    Parent

    Thanks (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 14, 2012 at 02:31:02 PM EST
    for responding. Everyone keeps telling me that they grow up eventually but it sure seems like a long time before that will happen.


    Parent
    Imagine how my moms feels... (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by kdog on Mon May 14, 2012 at 02:42:41 PM EST
    35 years and she's still waiting;)

    Seriously though GA, all I can tell ya is when 17-18 hits you've really done all you could already, then its time for the young adults to make their own mistakes and learn from them.  As much as you would like your son to accept the wisdom that comes with your years, everybody has to learn  for themselves at their own pace, and find their own way.

    Parent

    I know. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 14, 2012 at 03:31:38 PM EST
    I'm just trying to get him out of school at this point. I figure he's going to the "school of hard knocks" after high school.


    Parent
    Best of luck... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by kdog on Tue May 15, 2012 at 08:43:27 AM EST
    hopefully he gets the h.s. diploma this year, and that basic parenting expectation has been met.

    I would strongly suggest you not pressure him to go to college, at least right away.  My parents did that and I succumbed to their pressure, all I did was waste a bunch of money and time, my heart was never in it.  

    Especially nowadays with too many kids racking up debt in college with too few jobs...trade school or an apprenticeship in the trades is the new "old" way to get ahead, imo.  

    Parent

    I've (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 15, 2012 at 01:33:41 PM EST
    seen too many boys sent off to college who were not ready. He's not academic which is okay with me. He wants to go to tech school at some point but I'm not even sure he's ready to do that. He's also looking at the military.

    Parent
    He may need (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Zorba on Tue May 15, 2012 at 01:47:12 PM EST
    to work, assuming he can find a job in this economy, for awhile (and any job he could get would most likely not pay a whole lot) before he is ready to go onto either tech school, apprenticeship, or college.  While I'm not exactly thrilled with the idea of the military (given my way-leftie background), this may be something that he may want to explore.  He would at least learn some discipline and perhaps some skills that he could apply to civilian life.
    The main thing that I would recommend, if he does graduate high school (and I sincerely hope he does) is, if he has no other plans, he needs to start earning his "living" at home, whether paying rent, or doing substantive work around the house- repairs, repainting, whatever.
    If he doesn't graduate HS this year (and, OMG, I really, really hope he does!), I would say much the same as above.  Work, study, pull his load around the house.
    Good luck, Ga6thDem!  And just remember, "this, too, shall pass."
    Peace be with you.  

    Parent
    "..Spent most of my time (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by jondee on Tue May 15, 2012 at 01:54:03 PM EST
    occupying administration buildings..smoking alot of Thai stick..To tell you the truth, I don't remember most of it.." :)

    A corny and New Agey as it sounds, I firmly believe young people should, as Joseph Campbell says, "follow their bliss", and since we all Have to work, do some real work to discover what kind of work has real meaning for you, and then it becomes that much easier to really put your heart into the nitty gritty, refining-your-skills process (which is, in reality, a lifelong process.) It doesn't matter imo, if the kid is passionate about auto mechanics, or interior design..Just the sense of accomplishment of being able to do something REALLY well will carry him a long distance through life. Bank on it.

    Parent

    One time, in the midst of what seemed like (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Anne on Mon May 14, 2012 at 02:55:56 PM EST
    unrelenting tension and friction, I ended up sharing with my older daughter something that ended up giving her a little something to think about: that I knew how hard she was struggling to separate and be her own person and grow up, and that I understood that part of that was going to involve us being at odds.  I told her that what I hadn't counted on was how hard it was to reconcile this person she was at the moment with the one who used to think I could do no wrong.  I said that it hadn't been that long ago that her love for me shown through every pore, and she thought I was the smartest, best, mom whose hand she wanted to hold and whose lap she loved to snuggle in...and now I was 12 kinds of stupid she didn't want anything to do with - and it hurt.  And that it was hard for me to let her hurt me so that she could grow, because I was sometimes afraid she would never come back to thinking I was that same smart, good mom; and that I was doing my best not to let it get to me - but that day, in that moment, I was failing.

    I didn't scream it or shout it or say it with anger - it just came from my heart and she heard it.  I became human, and it helped connect us where the connection had frayed.  It didn't cure anything, but it helped - a lot.

    She became human - a wonderful young woman, who, together with her equally wonderful husband, will be having my first grandchild in December!

    There's hope: just get a good grip on it and don't let go; you won't be disappointed.


    Parent

    Mark Twain (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Zorba on Mon May 14, 2012 at 03:22:33 PM EST
    on his father:
    When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.

    I think that applies to girls and their mothers, as well.  Or, for that matter, any child with either parent.   ;-)

    Parent

    You (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 14, 2012 at 03:32:48 PM EST
    actually brought a smile to my face with that one!


    Parent
    Well, I'm glad (none / 0) (#36)
    by Zorba on Mon May 14, 2012 at 03:38:24 PM EST
    Take heart, Ga6thDem, kids do grow up (and I mean mentally, as well as physically).   ;-)

    Parent
    My friends assured me the pre-teen (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Mon May 14, 2012 at 08:14:46 PM EST
    re-surfaces later. True as to one but not the other-- both female.  

    Parent
    Ga, my 2 cents, if I might (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 14, 2012 at 04:53:47 PM EST
    When my son was pre-adolescent he was so unmanageable my wife and I seriously considered enrolling him in a school for behavior troubled youths. But, then I had a conversation with a friend whose advice literally changed our lives. (Said friend also happened to be a psychiatrist, but we talked as friends.)

    He told us that most problems such as the ones we were having were a result of the unfair positions the parties start from. The parents talk from a position of up here, and the child from down there. Consequently, everyone talks past each other. He said to forget the child is a child and, instead talk to him as if he were an adult. That's easier said than done, of course, but it turned out to be the miracle answer for us.

    My friend told us to talk to my son as if he were a college professor, and not a kid. Use all the big words you would with the prof., the big concepts, and the advanced ideas.

    To make a long story short, I confronted my son and said, "Joe (not Joey,) you don't like being treated like a kid, so from this day forward I'm going to talk with you as an equal. I'm going to appeal to your brain, your intellect, and your common sense. And, no matter what the conflict is, or the discussion we're having, you're going to live with the results. If you reject my advice on an issue, fine, but you will live with the results. If they're bad, I won't be there to rescue you. If they're good, you'll get an apology out of me, and all the credit you earned. Grown ups don't go around slamming doors, screaming obscenities, or disrespecting one another when one party is sacrificing themselves for the good of the other. Pejorative comments will not be allowed in this house, and if you don't know what that word means, go look it up in the dictionary. So, think it over, and if you're ready for this new relationship, so am I. Let me know what you want to do."

    Joe is in his mid twenties now. He's married to a wonderful young lady, founded his own growing million dollar business, and, for the last 10 years, has been a part time police officer, and firefighter. I would tell you how proud I am of him, but my crying would cause me to not finish this note.

    Just think about it. Everyone's different, I know.

    p.s. I have a grown daughter also; same problems, same "therapy," same results.....And, you can call me gramps now:)

    Parent

    Prior (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 14, 2012 at 06:09:01 PM EST
    to reading your post I did sit down with him earlier today when he got home from school and I just talked to him. I told him that we could not help him if he would not tell us what was wrong. Anyway, other than him trying to run away one time the discussion went pretty good.

    Parent
    GA, My friend, your son (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 14, 2012 at 09:29:03 PM EST
    is closer to being an adult than he is to an infant. Do him a favor and deal with him as an equal. Yes, you have a lot to still teach him, but bring him up to you, don't you go down to him. Children achieve based on their expectations. You'll be amazed at how much smarter, and more capable he is than you might have thought.

    You know, many Japanese put a violin into their baby's crib, instead of a doll. And, by the time they're in Kindergarten, they're playing Bach's concerto in D Minor.

    Be amazed by your son for he truly is amazing.

    Hang in there, kiddo.


    Parent

    Shh...my son is 12 today (none / 0) (#53)
    by Dadler on Mon May 14, 2012 at 07:46:43 PM EST
    I have one more year.  Best of luck to you.  ;-)

    Parent
    Happy Birthday (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon May 14, 2012 at 08:17:32 PM EST
    to your son! Actually I found middle school to be a lot of fun with my son--it was high school that has been the nightmare for him. So if your son follows that trajectory, you still have a few years before you're seeing any of this.

    Parent
    Woe, that's great (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 14, 2012 at 09:32:51 PM EST
    almost a teenager......Big birthday.

    you don't have to be Jewish to anticipate becoming a Man.....13.

    Mazel Tov!

    Parent

    G8 Summit disrupts (none / 0) (#30)
    by Zorba on Mon May 14, 2012 at 02:37:07 PM EST
    Frederick County, MD.
    The G8 Summit will be held at Camp David within Catoctin Mountain Park, in northern Frederick County.  So Catoctin Mountain Park is closed during the Summit (plus the day before and the day after).  This was to be expected.  But they're also closing nearby Cunningham Falls State Park. (Both of these closures, we were told, were at the request of the Secret Service.)  They're also closing several miles of Maryland Route 77 (the road to Catoctin Mountain Park).
    And they're closing all of the Frederick County Public Schools on Friday, May 18.  Not just the schools near the Park.  All of them.  Frederick is a large county in area, and most of the county's schools are many, many miles away from Camp David.
    They're also closing Frederick Community College, also nowhere near Camp David.
    I can understand the park closures.  But not all the schools.  That's just stupid (and that was at the request of the County Sheriff, apparently, not the Secret Service).
    The Feds have told the locals that there will be no reimbursement
    for resources spent preparing for and supporting next week's G-8 summit unless they can get some help from local lawmakers.

    Federal officials have not designated the summit a National Special Security Event, which would have triggered funding for local agencies, Frederick County Sheriff Chuck Jenkins said Friday.


    Link.
    So who knows how much the Frederick County Sheriff's Department, the Frederick City Police, and the Thurmont Police will spend on all their "security arrangements"?  As far as many of the locals are concerned, all the local law enforcement agencies should just pull back and let the Secret Service handle anything that comes up.

    MT, I need some dog behavioral advice. (none / 0) (#38)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon May 14, 2012 at 03:56:12 PM EST
    We rescued a Great Dane about 4 years ago. She was 9 months when we got her from the rescue.

    She has always gone pretty crazy around other dogs, but in a playful way when she was younger.

    At the rescue she was the puppy who was constantly rough housing with all the other dogs. Nothing serious, they all just played with her too, as she was clearly just a puppy.

    After we first rescued her we took her to dog parks just about every week, and she continued her rough housing ways there. She never got in a fight, but could not wait to get inside the fence and jump on and get jumped on by the other dogs.

    Then, over the past couple years, we did not take her to the dog park at all, but have walked/run her at least once a day. During that time we have to constantly check her with the prong collar because when she sees another dog she gets crazy excited...to play, we've always thought.

    However, the other day I had her at the pet store and she got in two fights there with the same dog. She literally was trying to tear the other dog apart. It was scary, and I've never had another dog that did that. I had to yank her off the other dog with all my strength.

    Any ideas on getting her re-socialized?

    Not MT but, If you're checking her with the prong (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by nycstray on Mon May 14, 2012 at 05:42:24 PM EST
    every time you see another dog, you may have taught her that other dogs means she gets 'corrected'.

    Try the opposite. Desensitize her to that reaction. Start at a distance far away from other dogs (before she starts reacting to them) and have her sit and watch you, reward and move on. Any time you see another dog in the distance, work with her before she hits her react point. Eventually, you should be able to work closer and closer and walk past other dogs. Or you may always need to keep a bit of distance if it turns out she's just matured in to a dog aggressive dog. But you should be able to come to some sort of resolution to walk her peacefully. Also, cross the street when you see other dogs being walked toward you until you can start getting a constant reaction/calmness from your girl. I use the dog park as a testing ground after I get the dog to a certain point of control. BUT! I start far away again and work closer over time. Do the same with parks where lots of dogs are.

     I'm doing something  similar with my 9mo Dal as she's just over the top happy when she sees other  dogs/people/whatever. She surprises the crap outta me sometimes and  looks up/checks in and stays at my side, lol!~ My last Dal could be dog reactive depending on the dog/it's body language, so I have a bit of practice, which is coming in handy with Roxy! the youngster :)

    Parent

    that often compared to my wife, I made very sure I checked her only when she "locked in" on the other dog, with the idea that she learns that when she "locks in" on another dog she gets checked, so ultimately she would learn to just ignore other dogs.

    Made sense to me, but in hindsight maybe not to my dog...

    My wife, who is the dog's main walker, and who isn't big enough to physically control the dog like I can, has never been quite so organized or consistent, so the dog may have been getting mixed signals.

    That said, I always say "hey" when I check her, so now I often don't have to check her anymore, I just say "hey" and she breaks her gaze.

    And we do cross the street, etc., when we see other dogs. As big as she is, we can't take any chances with her lunging at another dog. She did that once to my wife and threw my wife's back out to where she was flat in bed for three days.


    Parent

    i use a variant of clicker training: (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by the capstan on Mon May 14, 2012 at 08:21:54 PM EST
    whenever we meet dogs on a walk, I have tiny treats ready to reward my dog for good behavior..  Originally, I said, "Look at me!' and gave the treat when he looked at me, not the dog.  Now I just palm the treat; even if he offers a brief objection to the other dog, he breaks it off immediately.  Real clicker training would have resulted in his not reacting at all to any dog, I think.  Still, he calms immediately, so this old lady can safely walk in the park despite the presence of aggressive dogs.  Some dogs do seem to have a provocative stance that makes even mild-mannered dogs take offense at least briefly.

    Rewards work better than punishment or pain.

    Parent

    Hmmmmm (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 14, 2012 at 06:36:05 PM EST
    Could it be just that particular dog?  Or is she becoming aggressive with other dogs as well?  See if you notice this behavior around some other dogs.  Dogs pick up cues and signals that aren't so easily picked up by human beings about other dogs and other people too.  If you think you can manage it, try taking her near a different dog and see if it is still aggression that she is displaying.

    I lost my beautiful Othello a couple of months ago to an accident.  It was my fault too.  I was so sick about it and stricken I couldn't even talk about it.  He had such a good nature.  I had my granddaughter Zoey with me right before the accident though and she wanted to walk Othello so we were along the road above our house.  Zoey had him on leash and a dog began approaching, it was still pretty distant but he got really upset.  I had never seen him like that.  It kind of scared me, maybe he was changing somehow and not in a good way.  I had never seen him be this overly protective of Joshua.  As the dog got closer though I recognized it.  It lives about a mile down the road but it had bitten two people, one of them the son of one of Josh's past school teachers.  Othello had never really been around the dog before, and this wasn't a scary looking dog (border collie mix) I don't know how he knew from a distance that this dog was a biter of little people, but somehow he knew.

    Sometimes dogs that have a certain "look" trigger other dogs too.  The dogs I have most noted triggering other dogs are boxers.  It is odd too because in general boxers are usually pretty kind hearted, but something about their look and the way they carry themselves seems to sometimes trigger other dogs.  Is this the doggy with the sensitive toenails too?  I remember a Great Dane on here having sensitive nails like our dog Auburn.  Auburn is a very dominant female dog too.  I think it is part of her dominance that it is a virtual rodeo to trim her nails without sedating her.

    I will ask my friend Sheila who is a professional behaviorist and get back to you.

    Parent

    I'm so very sorry to hear (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by sj on Wed May 16, 2012 at 01:36:25 AM EST
    about your beautiful boy.  Leave karma to karma, MT.  He stayed with you as long as he could.

    Parent
    Thanks MT. (none / 0) (#49)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon May 14, 2012 at 06:57:11 PM EST
    No, she's great with getting her toenails done, thankfully, because we have only hardwood floors in our house and the constant click-clacking of too-long nails is really irritating. The pet store grinds them down and she's totally cool with it.

    It may be just this one dog, who we'll surely never see again.

    The other dog's owner said her dog growled at mine first. I don't know, I had my back to the situation as I was signing for my dog's rabies shot.

    Then, while I was signing the credit card at the checkout counter 5 mins later, the lady walked her dog right behind me and my dog jumped hers. What in god's name was she thinking?!

    Then, since my dog is bigger, and jumped hers, and quickly got the upper hand, everyone looked at me and my dog like we were George Zimmerman.

    Afterwards I started driving straight to the dog park, but then thought it maybe wasn't the best idea...

    I need to walk her soon to see how she reacts to neighborhood dogs.

    Yes, please let me know what your friend says!

    Parent

    Totally separate from the re-socialization issue (none / 0) (#39)
    by sj on Mon May 14, 2012 at 04:13:24 PM EST
    (I'm also interested in MT's response) I'd like to note that dogs can take an instant dislike to a particular other dog.  My dog has an "arch-enemy" that became so at their first meeting.  Her usual behavior is to either accept or ignore other dogs.  I'm not sure why this one dog sets her off the way he does.

    Parent
    Thanks, that may be the case, (none / 0) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon May 14, 2012 at 04:20:33 PM EST
    however my wife is usually the one who walks the dog and she has been saying for a while now that when our dog gets excited when she sees other dogs, it seems less like she wants to play (like she used to), and more like she wants to fight the other dogs.

    I wasn't there for any of these other incidents so I just figured (hoped?) the dog was just wanting to play.


    Parent

    I'll be interested in the response you get (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by sj on Mon May 14, 2012 at 04:26:59 PM EST
    and it does sound like some resocialization is in order.  But I wonder sometimes with big dogs like this how much it has to do with how they feel.  A former colleague is partial to Great Danes and there can be significant health and structural issues related to their size.  I wonder if it also causes loss-of-confidence behavior issues.

    Parent
    Dunno. Danes have usually been bred to be (none / 0) (#44)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon May 14, 2012 at 05:33:14 PM EST
    "Gentle Giants" for decades now. She's very gentle with people, it's dogs that she seems to have a problem with.

    Parent
    This is why ... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 14, 2012 at 07:44:09 PM EST
    ... I have a cat.

    But as a former longtime dog owner, my advice is to always remember that dogs and cats are social creatures that innately respect hierarchy. You have to establish yourself as the alpha in your relationship with your pet, and make sure he or she gets it. Once they get that, they'll respect you.

    Because if you don't, your pet will soon see herself as the alpha and will quickly learn to ignore you whenever she thinks it convenient. That's not a good place to be with a big dog like a great dane. Spare the prong, spoil the dane.

    I wonder if they make cat prongs ...?

    Parent

    "establish yourself (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by sj on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:33:29 AM EST
    as alpha" while it's true, has gotten us a lot of bad owners and unstable dogs, imo.  It seems to miss a lot of people that establishing a bond of trust is equally important as establishing hierarchy.  Dependence on the prong for a dog is just as "good" as dependence on the rod for a child.

    I'm with capstan, rewards work better than punishment or pain.

    Parent

    The more years I have dogs the more I realize how binary they really are: if it does an action and gets something "good" as a result the dog will repeat the action, if it gets something "bad" it will not.

    In general, of course...and consistency is paramount.

    Parent

    This is basic (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Zorba on Tue May 15, 2012 at 12:27:58 PM EST
    "Behavioral Theory 101," s.u.  Yes, of course, humans are more complex than dogs, but the basic premise is the same.  If something that you do rewards you, you are more likely to do that again.  If it results in negative consequences, you are less likely to do it again.  Of course, what is rewarding and what is not can get incredibly complicated when it comes to human behavior.  And, as you said, "consistency is paramount."  Not only behavioral psychologists, but good parents (and good teachers) have known this for a long, long time.   ;-)


    Parent
    Thanks Z! (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue May 15, 2012 at 12:38:34 PM EST
    Thank (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Zorba on Tue May 15, 2012 at 01:00:34 PM EST
    B. F. Skinner, "father" of operant conditioning, and before him I. P. Pavlov, "father" of classical conditioning.   ;-)
    And, I might add, behavioral theory has come a long way since their days.  But the basic premises hold.  And I should have added, besides good parents and good teachers, good animal trainers also apply these theories, not to mention good managers in business and elsewhere, even if they have not formally studied behavioral theory.

    Parent
    A tip for the thrifty: (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by NYShooter on Tue May 15, 2012 at 01:41:18 PM EST
    While in the service I became friends with a K9 trainer. Boy, was he good! Anyway, he gave me a tape for novice dog owners, and, while I long ago lost the tape, there was a tid-bit in there I'd like to share:

    The thrill, or the joy, a dog feels when being rewarded with a treat, doesn't come from his/her taste glands, they come from his/her salivary glands. When a dog takes the treat into its mouth, it's not the flavor, or texture, that they crave. It's that the dog gets an orgasm-like release by salivating. And, since it's the salivating that they love, a tiny, fingernail size morsel is as good as a fist sized treat.

    So, Don't waste money; It's The Drool, Fool!

    Oh God, I didn't just call you a fool....I swear, I didn't mean you. It rhymed, it just came out, my dear Ms Zorba

    Parent

    for training. Not only do I not want the dog to get sated from too many big treats and stop responding to the treats, but also it's just easier to deal with a small packet of treats rather than a large packet, especially when you're training "in the field."

    My family, on the other hand, always made fun of me saying that small treats are being "cheap" to the dog, even though she spends hours each day hunting down and hoovering up actual crumbs off the kitchen floor...

    Parent

    Heehee! (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Zorba on Tue May 15, 2012 at 01:55:31 PM EST
    No offense meant, no offense taken, NYShooter.  I would absolutely agree with the trainer that you knew.  You don't have to overwhelm with the positive reinforcement and pile it on.  A little goes a long way.
    And I'm not even going to "go there" when it comes to "thrills" and what that means as far as humans are concerned, speaking of "drool."  A "little" can indeed go a long way.  But this may be a discussion for another day.  ;-)

    Parent
    This is the best part (none / 0) (#43)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Mon May 14, 2012 at 05:08:38 PM EST
    Where people who claim that the parties are the same and the candidates are the same look silliest.

    How's life on Wall St. (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Rojas on Mon May 14, 2012 at 07:01:16 PM EST
    These days?
    Nevermind, carry on....

    Parent
    I watched "The Killing." (none / 0) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 14, 2012 at 07:27:13 PM EST
    OMG! We've got to do something about the City of Seattle, which is a cesspool of political corruption and den of moral iniquity. Why doesn't anyone up there want to do anything about that poor dead girl?

    Not to mention ... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Yman on Mon May 14, 2012 at 09:15:02 PM EST
    ... the constant rain.

    I am wondering how many seasons they're going to be able to get out of a single murder ...

    Parent

    I know. (none / 0) (#58)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 14, 2012 at 09:27:24 PM EST
    I lived in Seattle while going to college at the University of Washington. But while it definitely did rain a lot there, it never rained as much as on The Killing, and I remember the summertimes up there as being absolutely magnificent. Seattle enjoys one of the most picturesque settings of any big city in the country.

    And given that last night's episode ostensibly marked the 21st day since Rosie Larsen was murdered, another thing I'd like to know is how Seattle City Councilmember Darren Richmond could be up and rolling (albeit in a wheelchair) and raring to resume his campaign for mayor again, mere days after being nearly fatally shot and totally paraplegicized.

    But hey, it's TV.

    Parent

    One of my most vivid (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by jondee on Tue May 15, 2012 at 02:12:02 PM EST
    memories is sitting in a bar/restaraunt in Pioneer Square in the morning watching a rerun over and over on the news of that crazy kid shooting Reagan. The other intense memory from that year is of Howard Cosell cutting into the last few minutes of that Patriots-Dolphins game to say " but, lets all keep in mind that this is just a football game..in an unspeakable act in New York City..John Lennon.."

    Btw, Donald when you said The Killing, I thought you were going to start talikng about Kubrick and Sterling Hayden and Timothy Carey..

    I guess like Billy Pilgrim, I've become "unstuck in time.." lately..:)

    And yes, Seattle, (and I would add the Northwest in general) is amazing. Where else can you stand downtown and see snow capped mountains in one direction and the ocean in the other?  

     

    Parent

    LA. (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue May 15, 2012 at 02:41:23 PM EST
    Where else can you stand downtown and see snow capped mountains in one direction and the ocean in the other?


    Parent
    I've never been there, ... (none / 0) (#61)
    by Yman on Mon May 14, 2012 at 09:52:50 PM EST
    ... but the wide/panoramic shots on the show make it look quite beautiful.  The hills of the city make for what appears to be a much more interesting topography/vistas than what we typically have here in our flat/coastal plain/east coast cities.

    Good point about the timeline - apart from that timestamp at the beginning of the show, it's easy to forget how compressed the timeframe is.  Richmond must be on some miracle drugs.

    Parent

    Why is Romney leading Obama? (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 15, 2012 at 07:19:52 AM EST
    Seriously why?  And why have women already forgotten the war on women?  Do we like being threatened and beaten on or something?  I thought my generation was the generation that graduated out of that believing we deserved to be cracked when "the men" were a little stressed by real life.

    some other depressing things in that poll (none / 0) (#64)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 08:49:49 AM EST
    For all those that thought the "evolution" was a good political move by Obama:

    "25% are less likely to vote for the President because of his support of same-sex marriage (many of them are Republicans). Fewer -- 16% -- are more likely to back him because if it."

    "Most Americans favor some type of legal recognition of same-sex relationships, including 38% who support marriage. When asked directly whether same-sex marriage should be legal or not, 42% say it should be, but 51% say it should not."

    Among independents it's 14% more likely, 22% less likely.

    Possibly the most ironic thing in this poll:

    "The President's job approval rating in this poll is 50%, while 48% disapprove. With the exception of just after the killing of Osama bin Laden, 50% is the highest his approval rating has been in the last two years."

    It's a long way to the election still.  They are pivoting to jobs.  So I'll just leave this here.

    Parent

    The probelm with that ad, however (none / 0) (#66)
    by jbindc on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:10:55 AM EST
    is, that it doesn't tell the whole story. WaPo was generous in giving it only One Pinocchio.

    Another problem that isn't getting mentioned is that one of the biggest fundraising bundlers for Obama's campaign is Jonathan Lavine - who was Managing Director (I beleive that was his title) at Bain Capital LLC at the time that these plants were closed.

    Parent

    umm (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:18:59 AM EST
    that actually basically says that the ad is true but it leaves out nuance.  Well it's a 2 minute campaign ad.  So leaving out nuance is to be expected.

    Romney is who he is, he made the business moves he made, calling him out on it is fair game.  In your opinion WaPo was generous.  In my opinion they are trying pretty hard to muddy something that isn't muddy.

    Jonathan Lavine isn't running for president.  Mitt Romney is.  I could care less what someone's fundraising bundlers do/did for a living.  They aren't the ones who are trying to run the country.

    Parent

    There's also a 6 minute web ad (none / 0) (#69)
    by jbindc on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:23:27 AM EST
    And yes, Romney's experience is fair game, although that ad makes it seem as if he personally fired those people, when in fact, he was long gone.  And of course, it was the mismanagement of the pension funds by the company's management (Jonathan Lavine?) tht helped this company spiral into closing.

    So you think those who raise large sums of money for a candidate will have no influence? Or they will have no influence on Obama?  Did you feel that way about George Bush's "Rangers" or do you feel that way about Romney's SuperPACs?

    O-kay.

    Parent

    I don't know who the Rangers are (none / 0) (#71)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:28:28 AM EST
    and I could care less about the SuperPACs, other than the fact that they are anonymously donating boatloads of money - so that's kind of shady.

    I hold Romney personally responsible for a lot worse things than firing people.  He wasn't long gone when the deal was made, he was just long gone when it fell apart on those terms.

    Parent

    Well then (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by jbindc on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:34:08 AM EST
    What do you hold Obama personally responsible for?

    Parent
    his actions as president (none / 0) (#77)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 10:09:08 AM EST
    There are plenty to choose from.  Good and bad.

    Parent
    to put it another way (none / 0) (#68)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:20:53 AM EST
    if working at Bain is so bad that a fundraising bundler can be "tarred" with that brush, and his candidate by association - how do you have no problem with an actual candidate himself?

    Parent
    Wow - that is amazing spin! (none / 0) (#70)
    by jbindc on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:25:45 AM EST
    How on earth do you make the monumental leap into assuming that I "have no problem with an actual candidate himself" based on me pointing out a blatant pandering attempt by another candidate?

    You should be in political marketing with that spin.

    For the record - I don't support either candidate.

    Parent

    Ladies ladies ladies... (none / 0) (#74)
    by kdog on Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:45:16 AM EST
    don't get bogged down in semantics...anyway you slice it we will have a government by, of, and for the Bain Capital LLC's of the world.  At best, a choice between a traditional Bainster and a kinder gentler brand of Bainonomics.  

    I, for one, welcome our Bain overlords...Long Live King Bain!!! ;)

    Parent

    I do (none / 0) (#78)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 10:21:24 AM EST
    and I wear that allegiance on my sleave.

    I'm not gonna play the false equivalency game.

    Parent

    It is easier (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by jbindc on Tue May 15, 2012 at 10:58:44 AM EST
    to make excuses for those you support, however.

    Parent
    Political Marketing (none / 0) (#76)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 10:07:35 AM EST
    Mitt Romney's record as governor on gay marriage:

    "Among his moves: resurrecting a 90-year-old state law, aimed in part at preventing interracial marriage, to keep same-sex couples from flocking to Massachusetts for weddings."

    There are some choice quotes in here, like:
    "We do not intend to export our marriage confusion to the entire nation."

    Mitt Romney's record as governor on the economy:

    "[The state] went from 37th in the nation in job creation to 47th in the nation in job creation"

    "behind only Ohio and Michigan, both of which were being ravaged in the manufacturing meltdown, and Louisiana, which had been devastated by Katrina. Romney even trailed Mississippi and Alabama in job growth,"

    "In addition to almost zero job growth, the state saw a modest decline in real median income, meaning that the folks who had jobs were bringing home less."

    "He slashed higher education, cut revenue to local governments, and raised fees on everything from college students to mortgages, from buying a boat to opening a bar.

    Romney's cuts to education and job training were especially severe. Fees for university students shot up 63 percent as Romney hammered college funding."

    btw - we're doing quite good these days with a different governor.  When you compare Deval Patrick's record in the state, this looks a lot worse.

    You mean (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by jbindc on Tue May 15, 2012 at 11:00:19 AM EST
    Deval Patrick doesn't go around with the constant refrain of "It's not my fault - I inherited this mess?"

    Parent
    If Deval Patrick (none / 0) (#84)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 12:44:01 PM EST
    were running for president I'd be voting for him.

    Parent
    Didn't answer my question (none / 0) (#85)
    by jbindc on Tue May 15, 2012 at 12:48:14 PM EST
    But it actually did - Deval Patrick doesn't go around saying that, does he?

    Parent
    No he doesn't (none / 0) (#87)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 01:11:47 PM EST
    What exactly does this have to do with Mitt Romney's record as governor.  For that matter what does it have to do with Obama's record as president?

    You want to compare them on substance, fine, I'll have that conversation.  But I'm not making this about stupid "gotcha" cr@p. I gave you a long list of things that actually happened.  You're giving me a sound bite.

    You win the sound bite!

    Parent

    You brought up Deval Patrick (none / 0) (#90)
    by jbindc on Tue May 15, 2012 at 01:44:27 PM EST
    Who is also not running for president.

    Romeny had a terrible record, but the new guy isn't complaining.

    Obama has a terrible record, but keeps blaming the last guy.

    What's the difference?

    Parent

    my comment wasn't about him (none / 0) (#97)
    by CST on Tue May 15, 2012 at 04:35:12 PM EST
    The difference is Obama's priorities and policies are better.

    Also, sorry if I was being snappy earlier, rough day.

    Parent