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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 02:58:09 PM EST
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BTD - I'll write something worthwhile again soon. I promise.

In the meantime, Open Thread.

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    Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread | 122 comments (122 topical)

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    Worthwhile would be good. (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 04:04:14 PM EST


    LOL! (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:37:22 PM EST
    From your keyboard, to BTD's eyeballs.  ;-)

    Parent
    Cryptic, eh? (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:35:31 PM EST


    Parent
    update from istanbul (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by CST on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 05:36:25 PM EST
    I don't really know where to start.  We spent our first night in a dorm, since we got in late after our bumped flight (no time in Prague outside the airport) much to my brother in law's dismay for such shabby accomodations.  It was nicer than a lot of 4 stars hotel.

    The day was filled with lots of sights and even more food, which has been wonderful - even on our flights, luftansa and turkish air do not skimp.  The best way I could describe the city is if the melting pot of America was represented in architecture.  East meets west meets.... Everything.  We visited the hagia Sofia and blue mosque, and a bazaar while riding the tram.  I have seen everything from designer clothes, fine jewelry, rabbits, guns, and leeches (with a warning not to use without doctor supervision) for sale.

    We also had tea at a hotel balcony which overlooked the mosques, the sea, and very modern skyscrapers.   We had dinner and are staying at a house on the Asia side.  It makes the dorm look like a dorm.   Our view at dinner was again, the massive city and sea.

    It's stunning and busy and HOT.   It could be overwhelming but you keep stopping for food or tea and get to sit and absorb it all.  I will post pictures when I am home but they won't do it justice.  It's unlike any other place I've ever been.

    I was just wondering about where you were. (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 05:53:15 PM EST
    Keep the updates coming!

    Parent
    cst (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:26:05 PM EST
    I have no idea what sort of photography experience you have, could be much more than mine.  However, in case you are not an expert, here are a few tips to get the best from your camera.  
    Push the envelope, take pictures in extreme conditions and see what happens.  Particularly with digital camera, you have nothing to lose. Early Morning and late afternoon are the best times to get interesting shadows and graphic looking shots. Late afternoon gives warm light and early morning, more of a cool blue. Either way, if you can, walk around something (trees, small buildings, even a flower) until you see the shadow/light combo you want to shoot.  If you have a polarizing lens (not something you would have with a point and shoot.)use it and experiment.
    Between 10 and 2 on a sunny day is the best time to get anything that you want to come out in really bright crayon worthy colors.  For instance, if I wanted to take a picture of the Adriatic Sea at it's very bluest most saturated color, I would shoot it around noon on a sunny day.  Or if I wanted to get a picture of my son's hair looking it's very reddest when he was a little kid, I would take his picture in the sun between 10am and 2pm.
    Can't wait to see your pictures.

    Parent
    "circular polarizing lens" (none / 0) (#14)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:30:08 PM EST
    is what I meant to say.  Of course if you have a circular polarizing lens you probably already know what fun they can be.

    Parent
    CST, this sounds magnificent. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:52:57 PM EST
    I've been fascinated with Turkey since I was a kid and learned that Istanbul sits in two different continents. My 10 year old self was completely taken with the idea that you could walk across the street and be in a whole other continent. And that fueled a lifelong interest.

    I eagerly await your pictures.

    Parent

    Not for the directionally (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:39:34 PM EST
     impaired though.   I have been there and found Istanbul (and Turkey) fascinating.  But I am still confused on the Europe/Asia  geography.   Pretty sure you can't walk across. Water!

    Parent
    I'm proud of my former debate partner (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 05:38:24 PM EST
    36 years ago in high school. Brian Hart messaged me after seeing a photo from our reunion last month. He was instrumental in demanding better equipment for soldiers in Iraq, after his son was killed early on. He has worked hard to end the wars.

    I read about these issues, but I must not have made a connection because his name is common and he lives in Bedford, Mass., now.  This is a fascinating story from the WaPo about him. He now owns a company that makes robots to disarm bombs, in hopes of sparing lives.

    The article talks about the systems for awarding contracts, and for obtaining and dispersing supplies and equipment, and how screwed up they are.

    It makes me think of oncology, in which so much money is spent on a screwed-up research system while we could extend lives and improve the quality of life for patients if they could only afford the treatments available now.

    I'm craving peaches. (5.00 / 7) (#8)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:11:38 PM EST
    Tomorrow I'll buy a couple of baskets, and eat a dozen if they're small, and just let the juice dribble into my beard.

    Be sure (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:13:26 PM EST
    to ask for Elberta peaches. They are the best if you can get them.

    Parent
    Love Elberta peaches! (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:19:05 PM EST
    I also love white peaches, but for taste, Elberta within 24-48 hours from the tree... ^|___|^

    I've noticed an appetite for fresh and healthy foods since getting home, along with chili dogs from the mom and pop place that has made them since 1952. Greasy heaven.


    Parent

    You can't (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:26:31 PM EST
    live in the south without some "greasy haven" to eat at. My husband's favorite is the Varsity in downtown Atlanta. I'm not sure that I have one yet.

    Parent
    Whaddayahave whaddayahave (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:35:29 PM EST
    whaddayahave!  The Varsity is the best hot dog place in the world. My local place runs close, but I love The Varsity.

    Parent
    If you are eating chili dogs and (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:15:44 PM EST
    baskets of peaches you must be feeling okay. And that's good news.

    Are you up and completely mobile yet?

    Parent

    id you catch the word (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:39:47 PM EST
    "craving"?  Man goes in for prostate surgery and ends up pregnant.  Read all about it here.  

    Parent
    Not completely mobile, catherter for another week (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:41:40 PM EST
    or two, and then still haven't heard the pathology report yet. But I was in pain for so long I only felt it when it got really bad. When it was just bad, I thought that was the way I was supposed to feel.

    Now that I know there's a difference, I'm darn close to pain free, and that by itself is wonderful!

    Parent

    Jeff, I had to catheterize myself (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:20:20 PM EST
    from 2002 till 2010, when I finally had my bladder removed. I share your delight, remembering how it felt to be pain-free.

    Parent
    @ Casey, no chili dogs yet, (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:43:28 PM EST
    but I'm thinkin' about them! @Oculus...If so, it will DEFINITELY be a C-section!

    Parent
    When you can consume chili dogs and (none / 0) (#38)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:48:27 PM EST
    suffer no adverse reactions, we will know you are well into recovery.

    Are you dealing with the catheter at home? That seems painful in and of itself.

    Parent

    It is in place until (none / 0) (#58)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 07:30:00 AM EST
    the 16th. yes, it can be painful, but it's not nearly as bad as what was going on before.

    Parent
    I'm so (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 07:37:40 AM EST
    glad things are getting better for you!

    Parent
    Just had 2 white nectarines :) (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:38:50 PM EST
    sitting on the porch with my dog on a warm summer's afternoon.

    I 'spect to hear you doing the same soon.

    Parent

    Peaches! (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:35:08 PM EST
    We love peaches, but don't even talk to me about peaches!  Our peach tree was loaded with peaches, and the d@mned deer ate every single peach except one!  I am royally p!ssed.  One of the locals told us to try hanging bags of moth balls and yellow deodorant soap all over the tree to discourage deer.  Didn't work.  Mr. Zorba is so mad, he said that next year he's going to put an electric fence around that peach tree, and its neighboring apple tree.  Me, I'm ready to take the rifle and go out and murder any deer I see on our property.  Deer are royal pains in the @ss.

    Parent
    So I can't tell you about the two boxes of fresh (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Angel on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:34:33 PM EST
    Texas peaches delivered by a client to Mr. Angel's office today?  (ducking so I don't get hit)

    Parent
    No! (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:55:40 PM EST
    ;-)

    Parent
    Venison Bologna... mmmmmmmm. (none / 0) (#17)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:37:21 PM EST
    Check with the game warden, because shooting deer pests is legal in many states.


    Parent
    It's legal here (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:54:11 PM EST
    But you have to get a permit first and prove your "need".  And they really frown upon shooting anything within 100 yards of a residence.  Not that anyone pays attention to that up here, because we all shoot rabbits eating our gardens, without permits, and way less than 100 yards from our houses.   ;-)
    PS  Mr. Zorba hasn't hunted himself in years, but we do allow some trusted neighbors to shoot deer in season on our property, and they keep us supplied with boxes and boxes of nicely packaged, labelled, and frozen venison, venison sausage, and venison bologna.  I have a freezer full of venison.  If you get hungry for any kind of venison, come on up here, jeff.

    Parent
    I have been classically conditioned (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 12:39:54 PM EST
    Whenever I see the word "Zorba" I get hungry. The drooling part might be TMI.

    Parent
    Then maybe I shouldn't mention (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    the 36 jars of dilled bean pickles I recently put up.  Our green beans, of course.  Or the zucchini frittata I'm making for dinner tonight.  Our zucchini.  Or my cherry jelly, strawberry jam........              ;-)

    Parent
    Recipe for the bean pickles pls :) (none / 0) (#74)
    by nycstray on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:03:20 PM EST
    I'm planting massive consecutive amounts of green beans this year. Roxy! loves them, so they are great for training, but the pickled ones sound good for me (and her)!

    Parent
    Dilled beans (none / 0) (#84)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:43:18 PM EST
    Wash and cut your beans to the size of the jar (so they'll stand up lengthwise).  Make your pickling solution with half water and half white 5%-strength vinegar.  For every 2 1/2 cups of water and 2 1/2 cups of vinegar, add 1/4 cup canning and pickling salt (do not use iodized salt!  You can use Kosher salt, but it's more expensive.  What you want is a pure salt, with nothing else in it).  Let this come to a boil, make sure the salt is dissolved, and keep it hot.  Wash your jars well- I use a dishwasher.  If you don't have a dishwasher, wash them by hand, but then rinse them with boiling water.  Put one or two cloves of garlic in the jar (or more), a frond of fresh dill, and if you want it spicy, a slice or two of fresh hot pepper.  All these are "to taste," basically.  Pack the beans in carefully, side by side.  Boil your jar lids and bands.  Add the hot vinegar mix to your jars, up to within 1/4 inch of the top.  Immediately put the lids and bands on, and fasten firmly.  Put the jars in a boiling water bath for 10 minutes (water covering the jars by an inch or two).  Remove jars.  They will seal and keep for a long, long time.  (I use regular pint jars- the height works well for the size of the beans.)
    If you're only making a few jars, you can skip the boiling water bath and put them in the fridge when they cool off.  You will have "refrigerator pickles" after awhile- test one after about 10 days to two weeks.  These are crisper, but they don't last nearly as long.  You have to keep these refrigerated.
    Kali orexi!  (Greek for bon appetit!)      

    Parent
    Thanks! Saved :) (none / 0) (#94)
    by nycstray on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 02:44:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Oh, and did you know they have (none / 0) (#75)
    by nycstray on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:05:10 PM EST
    pint and a half jars? Saw some this weekend, and they look perfect for a few things I want to do :)

    Parent
    I haven't seen these (none / 0) (#86)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:47:48 PM EST
    Could work well for some of the things I make.  Have you noticed the short, squatty, fat pint jars?  They're really cute.  Would be nice for pints of jam or preserves.  (Not for the beans, though- they're too short.)

    Parent
    My mom got me some half pints (none / 0) (#95)
    by nycstray on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 02:50:51 PM EST
    last year that weren't the normal wide mouth halfs. I used them for sauces, jams etc.  Recipes I was doing small experimental batches with. They're cute (squat and shapely), but don't stack as nice as the reg wides. Good for gifts or using on the table when you have company etc. I had ketchup in some of them. Also a really good sour orange chipotle bbq sauce that I lost the recipe too :( Wish mom would quit asking for it, lol!~

    Check out the one and a halfs. I'm going to pick some up this weekend specifically for pickling and marinara sauce.

    Parent

    Yes, I have used (none / 0) (#97)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 03:31:44 PM EST
    the squat, shapely half pint jars.  I use these for jellies that I intend to give as gifts for Christmas, since they're so cute.  But they have the squat pint jars now, too.
    If you do run across the sour orange chipotle bbq sauce again, BTW, please do share it with us.  I won't bug you with asking all the time, like your mom, but it sure sounds good!     ;-)
    PS  The marinara sauce that I can, I use the quart jars.  There are three of us at home, and the pint-and-a-half jars wouldn't be big enough!

    Parent
    I used those little half pint jars to can salmon (none / 0) (#106)
    by Angel on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 06:26:45 PM EST
    from one of our fishing trips and for jellies for gifts.  Otherwise, they are way too expensive for me to use just because of the cute factor.   And cute they are!

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#107)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 06:32:00 PM EST
    That's why I use them only for jellies that I'm going to give away as gifts.     ;-)

    Parent
    When we (none / 0) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:37:23 PM EST
    were in the Smoky Mountains National Park they had put some kind of wire fence around some heirloom trees to keep the deer from destroying the trees.

    Parent
    It's easier to string (none / 0) (#31)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:38:08 PM EST
    electric fencing, though.  Works like a charm.  They bump into it, get shocked once or twice, and learn to stay away.  They never seem to learn that they could jump over it.   ;-)

    Parent
    It's amazing isn't it, how the return (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 09:19:32 AM EST
    of hunger is like the dividing line between before and after?  It tells us we're still alive and our body's working, prodding us to give it what it needs.

    Oh, sure, you can get vitamins and minerals from boring food, but where's the fun in that?  So, to the extent you can, indulge.  Taste.  Savor.  Make sure each day has at least one perfect bite of food.  That juicy, ripe peach.  A vine-ripened, still-warm tomato with a sprinkle of salt, or sliced up for a sandwich with the one-and-only Duke's mayo.   Fresh, sweet corn, with butter - real butter - salt and pepper.  Grilled anything.  

    I could go on, but the drool's kind of becoming an issue...


    Parent

    I don't even know what Duke's mayo is (none / 0) (#66)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 12:19:02 PM EST
    but the drool is contagious. YUMMM.

    Parent
    You're a warrior... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 08:07:15 AM EST
    enjoy that sweet nectar, ya earned it in spades my brother.

    Parent
    Hey dog, (none / 0) (#67)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 12:21:28 PM EST
    are you familiar with the writer Dale Pendell?

    I just discovered him. I believe he's a man after your own heart. You should check him out.

    Parent

    Not familiar... (none / 0) (#78)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:12:58 PM EST
    but it looks like I should be...his "horizon anarchism" seems like just what I'm always on about.

    If it took a thousand years to gradually dismantle the armed forces watching over us, and mechanisms of the State, that would be a bargain. That's fine. That's no problem.

    And that's Horizon Anarchism.

    Muchas gracias hombre, you're always turning me on to the good sh*t.

    Parent

    While googling (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:29:22 PM EST
    i found this oddly prescient editorial on Obama

    link

    It was wrong about Obama's ability to win but strangely right about a lot of things that have since come to pass.

    was this guy an Edwards supporter? (none / 0) (#20)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:52:40 PM EST
    Just curious, since he seems to have thought at the time that neither Obama or Clinton could win.  
    Good article, he seems to have Obama down.  On the other hand, I wonder if he knows Hillary beyond thinking she is Bill in a pantsuit.

    Was going to share this with the the Obot loving relatives in face book, but why piss everyone off right before bed time?

    Parent

    I don't know. (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:06:58 PM EST
    Just odd how he had Obama down pat.

    Parent
    yeah, he really did (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:26:57 PM EST
    I was surprised to read that hope and change were old rhetoric from Obama's Chicago days.

    Parent
    This part is so true: (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:36:23 PM EST
    Paul Krugman noted months ago that the Obamistas display a cultish quality in the sense that they treat others' criticism or failure to support their icon as a character flaw or sin


    Parent
    at least being called Man Hater (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:43:47 PM EST
    is a change from the same boring old charge of "raycyst".

    Parent
    And the (none / 0) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:37:35 PM EST
    fact that this is the first time I have read about the organization and Obama actually worked for as a community organizer and I guess his claim to fame really was registering voters.

    Parent
    A lot of (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:47:14 PM EST
    what he wrote was not news to me.  I have lots of relatives in Chicago, always kept in constant contact and visited with them, and grew up in the St. Louis and Southern Illinois area.  I was always rather jaundiced about his candidacy.  Not that I was a Clinton supporter, either.  I'm way to the left of both of them, and have no patience for the neoliberal/Third Way ideology.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by lilburro on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:38:42 PM EST
    community organizer never really swayed me one way or another, but the main thing I got out of it was that he didn't immediately cash in on his education - he committed himself to service, for however long.  And I think that is laudable.  I did some canvassing for a while (a summer; I suppose Obama would have hypothetically been my boss) and while I don't think it qualifies me to be President (I don't recall that claim being explicitly made, anyway), it is still a job experience that stands out among my others and that I think about much more than most, mainly because you just encounter so many people while doing something like asking for donations or registering voters.  Their stories expand your view and demand serious consideration if you can change their mind about going to the polls, that's a real achievement.  And it is hard work - it's a sales job, but your product is intangible.  Having since met people who would balk at going into a neighborhood slightly to moderately poorer than their own (their sh*t, apparently, don't stink, or whatever it is that makes them feel stepping out of their privileged comfort zone is unimportant), I appreciate the openness and civic spirit that kind of job fosters.  I can see myself talking about this job in 20 years.

    I recommend canvassing to anyone, actually, be it paid or volunteer.  I thought of myself as somewhat shy before I did it and it really helped me open up and learn to roll with the punches, as you do meet some mean people/straight up weirdos.  But you also meet some really generous people, and get to hear honest feelings, opinions, and fears you might not otherwise hear.  Plus, you get to enjoy experiences like canvassing in heavily African-American, retired neighborhoods in NC for Obama's election.  Let me tell you most of those people needed no reminders to vote (I think they must've all lined up on the first day of early voting; to say they were on top of it would be an understatement) and their pride and excitement was palpable.  And then there are more left-field memories, like sitting through a 20 minute long lecture on the Age of Aquarius and my apparent status as an indigo child.  Good times.

    Parent

    I have done lots of canvassing (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by TeresaInPa on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 06:21:23 AM EST
    organized a small city for Kerry.  I have registered hundreds of voters.  Canvassing is something most people do in their time off. It is a job thrown in as important experience because Obama's resume was so thin.

    Parent
    There (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 07:07:46 AM EST
    was no immediately "cashing in of education" back in the 80's. I graduated with a business degree in 1982 and the UE number was 10%. I don't think the UE number went under 7% in 1985 and making 12K was kind of an average salary back then.

    Parent
    I know.... (none / 0) (#37)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:47:23 PM EST
    I used to say he registered voters "so did I, elect me president please".  I was half kidding then.  Imagine my shock now that I know I was deadly (in terms of our economy etc...) serious.

    Parent
    Man haters gonna hate (none / 0) (#22)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 06:59:47 PM EST
    Its hilarious that basically any day of the week at any time I can read a comment like that and know instantly its one of about 4 people on here.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:07:59 PM EST
    we know that you think Obama is the greatest thing since sliced bread for some reason. That's your prerogative. You have to admit that a lot of what this guy says has come to pass.

    Parent
    Your response is equally formulaic (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Mr Tuxedo on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:22:02 PM EST
    and predictable.

    Parent
    man haters? (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by TeresaInPa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 07:33:01 PM EST
    Archie Bunker is that you?


    Parent
    No. (none / 0) (#46)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:20:36 PM EST
    But I think it could be my Uncle Erv ...
    ;-)

    Parent
    Are you calling Ga6thDem a "Man Hater"? (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:21:31 PM EST
    kinda thought name calling was frowned upon here . . .

    Parent
    Things have changed recently. (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 08:25:10 PM EST


    Parent
    The case of the missing comma . . . (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Mr Tuxedo on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:26:52 PM EST
    after "Man"

    Parent
    Maybe SS meant to say (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 03:32:46 PM EST
    Ma'am and then put in a comma.

    Parent
    Ah, so she's just a general "hater"? (none / 0) (#52)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 10:08:24 PM EST
    Thanks :)

    Parent
    just to be clear (5.00 / 5) (#56)
    by TeresaInPa on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 06:30:02 AM EST
    there was a certain amount of joking about your calling a woman here a "man hater".  But it is not really funny.  It is sexism of the type used to shut women up for many generations now.  Join the last half a decade with the rest of us.  Sexism is bad enough, dumb-assed women hating rhetoric is just plain stupid considering that women have given every single democrat elected in the last 20 years their victory.

    Parent
    the term 'man hater' (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 12:28:58 PM EST
    seems a put down for women in general by inferring that if they do not agree with a man then they must be lesbian and 'hate' all men. Maybe like saying a man is 'swishy' or some other stupid attempt at an insult. And I agree that even tho there was some good natured joking, socraticsilence's comment did not contain any humor. It was meant as a put down.

    BTW, ss, if you are trying to persuade, then insulting and demeaning others into submission will not be particularly effective.

    Parent

    Yeah, we're all looking forward to several (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by nycstray on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 12:58:26 PM EST
    months of re-hashing the '08 insults and put downs. We loved them SO much the first time around . . .  

    Parent
    I recently heard Samuel Popkin, a poli (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:08:11 PM EST
    sci Professor at UCSD, talk about his recent book "The Candidate:  what it takes to win -and hold-the White House."  Prof. Popkin has been involved in Presidential campaigns from Carter to Gore.  But, chapter 4 is entitled:  The Challenger Who Couldn't lose:  Hillary Clinton in 2008."  Which makes me think I may not make it through the book, which I recently got from the library.  

    Parent
    Yeah, something to look forward to (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:10:28 PM EST
    NOT!  But its gonna happen to some extent. And demeaning insults have been proven to NOT work in winning hearts and minds - or votes either. Besides, one reason some people really hated the sexism of that primary is that is is so not new, but rather unexpected from such a vast number of supposed political allies. I think that's what you are saying tho.

    Parent
    People (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:50:51 PM EST
    like that are Obama's worst enemy. The thing is the nonsense that comes from the GOP makes you want to vote for Obama just to slap them down but then Obama's own supporters shoot that down with their comments. They are encouraging more people to either sit home or vote for Romney.

    Paul Krugman said Obamistas display a cultish quality in the sense that they treat others' criticism or failure to support their icon as a character flaw or sin and that is exactly how they act. Like you are some mortally flawed person if you can't see the "awesomeness" of Obama. This reminds me of the Bush-nuts who couldn't believe that you didn't think Bush was Jesus reincarnated.  

    Parent

    I read the comment as: (none / 0) (#79)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:25:22 PM EST
    "Man, haters gonna hate." I think a comma was unintentionally left out.

    Parent
    I don't see calling someone a "hater" (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by nycstray on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:28:49 PM EST
    as really all that much better than "man hater". Comma's not gonna save it, imo.

    Also, it just sounds SO Sarah Palin :)

    Parent

    No arguments from me, (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:37:30 PM EST
    just thought I'd throw it out there in case it would save us from ruffled feathers over something that was a typo...

    Parent
    Oh, no. Please don't go there! (none / 0) (#81)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:31:47 PM EST
    BTW, in general, when start tolerating comments criticizing other commenters' comment-writing style.  Crazy.  

    Parent
    Okay, this one baffles me a bit oculus... (none / 0) (#102)
    by sj on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 05:12:52 PM EST


    Parent
    Ha. Not cryptic. I left out a couple of words: (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 05:33:39 PM EST
    when did TalkLeft start tolerating comments

    Parent
    oculus is talking about me, I believe; (none / 0) (#104)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 05:35:17 PM EST
    I described one commenter's style of over-using italics and scare quotes as "most annoying ever," told jbindc I just didn't get the point of her constant you-think-the-GOP-is-bad-but-look-how-bad-the-Dems-are comments, and - worst of all - I told oculus her cryptic, is-this-snark-or-something-else, comments were a wee bit tiresome (after she told me my comment was singing a different song than before).

    But, as she says, at least her comments don't take too long to read.

    Zing!  She really got me on that one - score!

    Parent

    Anne, I really enjoyed that comment (5.00 / 4) (#108)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 09:05:21 PM EST
    you made about the other commenter's writing style. Your idea was that the style did not appeal because of its visual content. I thought that was an interesting idea. Maybe that could be applied to thinking forms as well?

    Unfortunately I am very visually oriented and am now putting my thoughts into word forms and am seeing lots of -- 'for example' --italics, 'CAPS', bolding, underlining and @(#&@#&s. And since once my brain gets on some visual gig it usually gets stuck there for a while. For example, now when I'm driving I don't just have the thought pass thru "don't cut me off you pinhead",,, I 'SEE' "*Hey 'Pinhead' - !!! - get the He!! outa my way, 'dork' @&$%&*($%#!!! "

    Parent

    That's hilarious, ZtoA...I'm glad I'm not (none / 0) (#109)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 09:19:13 PM EST
    the only one who gets distracted by the italics, underlining and quotes; I get the people want others to read their comments with the kind of emphasis they're feeling when they write it, but I think it just gets in the way.

    Parent
    I must admit, I love me some italics (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by sj on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 12:32:34 AM EST
    I write the way I think.  Italics, parenthetical statements, sidebars and all.

    Parent
    exACTly, nycstray (none / 0) (#101)
    by sj on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 05:11:48 PM EST
    How did that become part of our lexicon?  When I heard her say it the first, second, third, fourth and maybe fifth time, I just rolled my eyes.  Frankly it sounded uneducated and crass to me (it still does).  Imagine my surprise when I saw the description become standard fare.

    Parent
    Every P.C, Policepersons Ball.... (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:45:37 PM EST
    needs a benefit of the doubt pooper, and that's why they invited you:)

    Parent
    yes, the only problem (none / 0) (#114)
    by TeresaInPa on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 06:22:02 AM EST
    with sexism is that it is not "PC".  Thanks, I am sure all of us females are so relieved to know sexism isn't really harmful to society or our bottom line, the future well being of our daughters and nieces.

    Parent
    Beg your pardon? (none / 0) (#115)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 07:47:21 AM EST
    If the context is the slang use of "man" as I interpret it is, as in "man I really don't feel like working today", the only sexism is the boy who cried wolf version.

    Parent
    nice try at deflection (none / 0) (#120)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 05:27:42 AM EST
    but BS none the less.  

    Parent
    Sexism, noun... (none / 0) (#122)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 07:53:48 AM EST
    Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

    So if the commenter was using "man" in the context I interpreted, which is certainly possible if not probable, you still think it's a sexist remark?

    Talk about deflection...

    Parent

    oh bull,sh*t (none / 0) (#112)
    by TeresaInPa on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 06:10:27 AM EST
    your radar must be broken.  The thing that has been made very very clear to me over the last 40 years, is that there is as much sexism on the left as the right.  It's just that it is usually hidden.....but so close to the surface.
    I grew up on the left, my family with one exception, is all liberals.  The counter culture dropped in on us and stayed for months, all through my childhood and teen years.  Believe me, sexism is as bad on the left as the right.  Sure, I know lots of people on the left who are not the least bit sexist.  But I know lots of people on the right who are also not sexist.

    Parent
    not the least bit.. (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 04:02:53 PM EST
    or not the least bit racist..or callous..or self-absorbed..or stridently, gratingly, crusading..

    Those people are rarer than hens teeth on any side of any aisle..

    Parent

    lol (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 05:33:42 AM EST
    you have just set yourself up as a perfect example.  Women who don't feel like just "getting over it", whatever "it" might be, are strident and grating.  Love it.  Nope, no sexism on the left at all....lol

    Parent
    strident and grating (none / 0) (#123)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 11:47:12 AM EST
    are gender-nuetral..and women (present company excepted), aren't the only one's who've had a little bit of trouble getting over "Hillary Shoulda' Been 44"..

    And saying one or two people are strident and grating.. and embittered..and have an axe to grind..and a permanent chip on their shoulder.. isn't the same as saying ALL people of the same gender express those characteristics. THAT would be sexist.

    Parent

    Maybe so, maybe my radar is broken. (none / 0) (#117)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 12:26:52 PM EST
    Maybe if all our radars were broken, and we all erred on the side of not looking for a reason to take offense, there'd be less redonkulous conversations like this one...

    Parent
    the man hater comment reminds me (5.00 / 4) (#82)
    by DFLer on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:32:10 PM EST
    of guys, who when their pass is rejected by a woman, accuses her of being a lesbian....

    Parent
    yes, a lesbian (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by TeresaInPa on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 06:12:04 AM EST
    or frigid.  

    Parent
    What soc meant to say (1.00 / 1) (#118)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 04:00:09 PM EST
    wasn't "man hater", but more like terminally-embittered post-08 demograph.

    Parent
    Ga6thDem (none / 0) (#111)
    by LeaNder on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 05:20:23 AM EST
    Thanks, sounds like a really interesting man. If one looks at his books, one doesn't know were to start. But he clearly has no big support base, since in Wikipedia his last publication is from 2001. Maybe he should have changed his first name?

    Parent
    another note (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by CST on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:10:46 AM EST
    On traveling dynamics.

    Whenever possible, I try to use my friends and family as excuses to visit places, because there is nothing like going with a local.  But the types of tourists you bring with you is also important for defining your trip.

    A few years ago I visited my sister in Namibia, and we toured with 4 people.  My sister and I the two American white girls that got white Africans and tourists to treat us well and black Africans interested, a black American that made everyone really excited, and a black namibian that made people comfortable approaching and talking to us.

    This time we are here with my sisters and I, one of whom wears a scarf, an American female friend, my Turkish brother in law, various Turkish friends and family, and a 7 month old baby.  Babies are surprisingly awesome companions, because they make everyone excited and happy, even when whining.  The Turks open doors, and my sisters and I seem to confuse/interest people.  It would not have been the same experience if we were just a bunch of tourists.

    Yes, babies are social chum. (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 10:05:48 AM EST
    My brothers and I have often laughed at how guys walking around with young babies instantly become fascinating and charismatically magnetic to all sorts of random women at precisely that time in life when random women are completely off the menu...

    Parent
    Not always off the menu... (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 11:13:47 AM EST
    like say when the uncle takes the nieces out for ice cream;)

    The kids truly are little magnets...as well as dogs and female friends.

    Parent

    Ha! (none / 0) (#64)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 11:37:38 AM EST


    Parent
    CST this is my favorite (none / 0) (#65)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 12:15:32 PM EST
    travel comment ever. Your enjoyment of the entire experience is visceral. I can see that you make lifetime friends wherever you are!

    The only time babies are not cute magnets is in close quarters on airplanes. At moments of ascent or descent it seems that all babies cry, and some are very loud. All parents are frantically trying to stick things, binkies, bottles, whatever makes them happy into their mouths and get them to swallow to pop their ears.

    Parent

    Do you agree CST "should" write (none / 0) (#70)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 12:45:03 PM EST
    travel articles/books?

    Parent
    Yes I do (none / 0) (#73)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:02:52 PM EST
    and one thing I like to read about (besides food of course, and people and babies) is smells. Sometimes places have distinct smells. My daughter recently visited New Orleans and said the smells of flowers, beignets and garbage made a wonderful impression on her. I would love to visit Istanbul, such an ancient city but still filled with babies!

    Parent
    Man, haters (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by vicndabx on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 02:59:12 PM EST
    and no outrage over Magic Mike!!!!!!

    What is the world coming to?  ;-)

    /s

    I can hardly be outraged when ... (none / 0) (#105)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 05:37:29 PM EST
    ... I'm not going to see it, given that a movie about male strippers probably isn't meant to appeal to the oh-so-manly he-man population demographic.

    Parent
    Oh sure, straight women are going to (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 02:53:11 PM EST
    see Magic Mike. But let's not forget the other major demographic group that is flocking to movie theaters to ogle Channing Tatum's . . . ummmm. . . wellll, his virtues.

    That group, the group that dares not speak its name, that group that comprises the most ardent patrons of Playgirl Magazine, is loving themselves some Channing and Matthew and Matt teal.

    And I say, more power to both of MM's big fan groups.

    Parent

    Well played sir... (none / 0) (#116)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:06:08 AM EST
    My sister saw it with my moms, said she was slightly embarassed by mom's hooting and hollering like a construction worker....brought her back in time to when moms took her to a Chippendales show on her 21st birthday.  Funny sh&t.

    Parent
    New tyranny gadget... (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 03:36:21 PM EST
    soon to be in DHS hands...pretty wild technology actually, with some potentially awesome medical uses.  The tyranny uses though are petrifying.

    I'm going to have to (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by desertswine on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 09:53:24 PM EST
    start wearing lead underwear, along with my tinfoil hat.

    Parent
    We'll get those school kids eating healthy (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 03:48:44 PM EST
    yet.  

    Parent
    LOL... (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 03:52:10 PM EST
    I hope they don't give Bloomberg one;)

    Hadn't really thought about the diet police, scary enough in the hands of narcs.  I'm gonna have to take the old Silkwood shower everytime I go to the airport, is that what they're telling me?

    Parent

    Much prefer the laser scan (none / 0) (#88)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:58:06 PM EST
    as described to the current X-ray cancer producer or the intimate pat down. Looks like very 21st C technology that might be useful if safety not an issue and it's not abused.

    Now when are we going to get 21st C transportation systems to fly in that are at the technological level of those scanners?

    Parent

    As bad as the cancer scanner... (none / 0) (#89)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 02:05:58 PM EST
    and the TSA rub and tug are, neither can detect a couple microscpic thc crystals on your clothing at 50 meters, they make it sound like this dohickey can.

    "If it's not abused"...you funny brodie.  It's not a question of if, but when.

    Parent

    Yeah obviously they would (none / 0) (#92)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 02:42:14 PM EST
    need to calibrate the alarm system so that it registers but ignores the micro background level stuff, including the trace cocaine micros apparently found on all paper currency.  If not then presumably everyone will be stopped and popped for trace amounts.

    Looks like promising technology to me, a definite improvement over the status quo.

    Parent

    I do hope the new technology is not (none / 0) (#93)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 02:43:59 PM EST
    added on to the existing security checks at the airport  

    Parent
    Do you honestly think it will (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 03:37:31 PM EST
    replace the current technology?  I don't.  I think it will be an "add on."

    Parent
    It seems to be such (none / 0) (#99)
    by brodie on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 03:33:21 PM EST
    that it should replace existing intrusive and unhealthful methods.  Can see through clothing and detect to the micro particle level any anomalies. Or that's how I read that report.

    Now when do we get the personal Jetsons 21st C flying veehickle they promised us back in the sixties, so we can forego the airport experience entirely?  Man we are so stuck in the mid 20th C re transportation.  Hard to believe but here we are still burning fossil fuels to putter around.

    Parent

    NL wins All-Star Game. Dickey (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 10, 2012 at 11:20:33 PM EST
    is not of the Bill Durham school of after-game comments:  

    "Just being here in general has been an incredible apex to an incredible narrative," Dickey said. "I don't really know how to quantify it, emotionally. I'm trying to soak it in and celebrate it."
     [NYT.]
    Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread | 122 comments (122 topical)

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