Wednesday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Aug 01, 2012 at 10:36:38 PM EST
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The Drew Peterson trial is off to a rocky start. Prosecutorial errors may cause a mistrial. More here. This is one of those cases, like Casey Anthony, I have zero interest in and haven't followed. Nor have I figured out why anyone else is following it.

A new report on James Holmes and his psychiatrist: "Sources" (who don't sound like law enforcement) say his doctor notified members of a special assessment team at CU that he was potentially dangerous a few weeks before the Aurora shootings, but he dropped out before the team could evaluate. No one notified police. It's not clear why she was concerned -- whether it just his statements or he disclosed he might take violent action. I put no stock in the "threat assessment expert's" generic opinion.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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Wednesday Night Open Thread | 29 comments (29 topical)

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And in my email account (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 01, 2012 at 11:32:16 PM EST

From one of the German Shepherd message boards is a post from the breeder who told the newbie she had to kill the puppies with the broken pasterns. She had a hand in creating "extreme gaiting", she is considered one of the oldest and most respected in American German Shepherd lines.

She is panicking because there are no entries in the futurities anymore and that our breed is collapsing (sort of like its pasterns I suppose). She posts this after listing her champions and making it clear that she is the $hit man......

Change the shows so that owners can exhibit and win.
Get rid of the extreme gaiting, it's not necessary for a trained eye anyway.
Make it FUN for new people and families.
Make it FUN for old people with arthritis.
MAKE IT FUN so people will return and want to exhibit.

The people with the names and the credibility were the ones who made it where a sound truly healthy German Shepherd could not win. She's a judge for phucks sake, she has a hand in all that has happened here too. Now she's panicking because Americans as a whole don't want any of the broken dogs or her broken sport? You just couldn't make this crap up. What are they going to do about people like me and the other two "new" people like me who ended up having to put dogs to sleep because of what they were doing and trying to hide? We were there, we wanted to participate and we were made very very sorry for that. No apologies?

My horrible husband was reading our granddaughter's Cinderella last night when they stayed over, and when he got to the end he added a couple of sentences. He added, "And then Drizella and Anastasia were run over by a car. Karma"

Just wait til the uber class (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by observed on Wed Aug 01, 2012 at 11:54:29 PM EST

breed people for show.
In a world where 200 people control over 50% of the wealth of the world (which is where we are heading), there will be no limits on the application of imagination to human breeding and sport.
Let the Games begin!


: Why not (none / 0) (#5)
by CoralGables on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 12:53:41 AM EST

just make it The Hunger Games

Ok, I had no idea (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by lilburro on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 12:54:03 AM EST

what extreme gaiting or broken pasterns were, but after some Googling...GAH!! There are certain things done to dogs (cropping & docking) that may've made sense in the past (HUNDREDS of years ago), but why would this ever make sense? Sheesh.


I didn't know either (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by sj on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:31:49 AM EST

This was the best article I could find on it although this was also interesting.


: That is actually a decent article on it too (none / 0) (#17)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:05:23 AM EST

Leerburg helped me with one of my dogs long ago that was just my new puppy and family dog. I used to have working German Shepherds. Problem with that is the people who want to buy your working German Shepherds though, they are the attack dog people. So we decided no more of attracting that sort of thing. I do have a huge scar on my arm from someone who purchased one of our dogs and attack trained him. They lied to me about training him for it, and I went to go get him and work with him because he was having problems according to them. He did to me, the minute I stood near him, exactly what he had been trained to do. He bit the hell out of me and then sat down in front of me and waited for me to praise him.
I agree with Leerburg on this. He used to be such a Conservative though that I got to where I couldn't stand him. His son served in Iraq, joined after 9/11. I went to Crawford, and he doubled down demanding people around him support the surge. He would sometimes attack people who were against the Iraq War, so I began to avoid him in all ways. Didn't even read his site. I don't know when that changed, but it did and then the next thing I know he has a diary up at DailyKos about the horrible buildings our wounded soldiers were being housed in at Walter Reed. He started that whole deal. He is a very very intelligent guy, and though we focus on different goals for dogs, I keep running into him over and over again. And he cares about being factually accurate and not just blowing smoke.

The dogs looked kind of cool running (5.00 / 4) (#9)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:33:18 AM EST

It was sort of a mass hysteria for awhile I think, and since many breeders are judges they can change what masses consider optimum desirable. When bystanders not emotionally invested complained that the dogs didn't seem to be able to walk properly though, as a group they sneered at them and looked down their noses at them. What would these peasants know about gaiting dogs? And if you are a newbie to the sport they will convince you that they know magic things and that common sense can't be used. This stuff is all magically too complex for you you newbie. They will talk "mechanics", they pretend they have bio-engineering degrees. Later down the road, if you are brave, you will come to understand that they are mostly talking out of their a$$e$ about this gaiting business :)

It also does another thing too, to breed one of the winning aberration you have to get your hands on some of their DNA. If freakish aberrations aren't needed to win, well...some "backyard breeder" could walk through the door with his/her best puppy out of a litter and beat you.

So the aberration du jour insures that the established oligarchy maintains control of the prestige and a majority of the available money too.

Pugs and Pekingese can barely breathe anymore and Pekingese must lay on ice packs in the ring while being shown in the summer for the same reason. But if a Pug or Pekingese walked in the door with a nose of a healthy length, our current AKC judges wouldn't even look at them. In order to win their noses must be flat with their faces, they can't breathe properly though and it does kill them.


: The show ring (5.00 / 2) (#19)
by Zorba on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:35:49 PM EST

for many breeds has totally scr*wed up those breeds. Really, really too bad. Pekinese, besides their breathing problems, tend to have a lot of eye problems. Corneal abrasions are a big problem, because their eyes protrude so much. Oh, and eye prolapse (yes, folks, other than MT, whom I am sure is aware of this: their eyes are prone to "popping out" of their sockets under certain conditions). Boston terriers will almost invariably need a C-section to whelp; they cannot free-whelp because the puppies' heads are too large for the mother's pelvis.
All this is normal? This is what the "show ring," breeders, and too many owners want? Really??? What a d@mned shame.

No entries in the futurities? (none / 0) (#3)
by nycstray on Wed Aug 01, 2012 at 11:53:48 PM EST

There are no new up and comers? Nobody trying to fix the health of the breed? Where's your rebel spirit there?!

Gotta say, I would never want an American show line GSD. Such a shame . . .


The UKC passed new regulations (5.00 / 2) (#7)
by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:01:49 AM EST

that any German Shepherd showing up that can't walk properly with be immediately DQ'd. And in the UKC the slick professional handlers can only show their own dogs. Everyone must show their own dogs in the UKC. The International Shows have always been a safe place to show an unbroken American German Shepherd too.

But it looks like the AKC affiliated futurities are frucked, sort of like Wall Street. The dumb money isn't showing up anymore.

To thine own self be true, should anyone want to party with these people after they've damaged you and animals you were connected to? Should we want to save the people who did all this when we can just ditch them and their oligarchy and all go compete in the UKC and the International shows with dogs that aren't freaks of nature so could never win anything in their shows? Shouldn't we just go some place else where the system is completely different and it isn't all about who can breed the craziest dog? If your dog is V-1 in meeting the standards in an International show, you go home with a V-1 even if there is another V-1 there.

You are safe to buy an American lines German Shepherd, just not from some people. It is the same with working lines too, there are many unethical breeders breeding some freaky dogs in those lines too.


: I wrote about my GSD (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by the capstan on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 07:24:46 AM EST

maybe 2 or 3 years ago. She was from a German SCH line, born in 1996. Had to have her put down just after she turned 8 because paralysis was almost total. Her back had the slope, which had been a surprise to me because my GSD of American show lines (born in 1967) was a huge fellow with a straight back--Rin Tin Tin look-alike. The breeder, who had been raking in money for her pups, disappeared.
I switched breeds (new one was ARBA, but is now AKC--and breed club is carefully monitoring). It is darned hard to care for a large paralyzed GSD even if it has been bred down pretty drastically in size.

Colbert is killing me about free (none / 0) (#1)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 01, 2012 at 10:52:49 PM EST

gov. birth control for all the ladies. He says reset your watches and check your calendars because it is now Whore o'clock on the first day of Skankuary . And women are lining up to get on the free Yaz force feeding tube like a fois gras goose. We are marauding the streets, we own the night and we seek the life essence.

he was potentially dangerous (none / 0) (#10)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 07:23:56 AM EST

he was potentially dangerous

The only problem with this evaluation is it applies to 100% of the population.

Mitt and Planned Parenthood (none / 0) (#12)
by Yman on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 08:06:31 AM EST

Romney promises to get rid of Planned Parenthood, then clarifies his statement was re: federal funding for PP.

Since the regressive tax code.... (5.00 / 2) (#13)
by Dadler on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 09:08:04 AM EST

...essentially means Mitt Romney receives lavish federal funding, can he please propose getting himself off the federal nipple?


Is anybody (5.00 / 3) (#14)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 09:18:59 AM EST

else sick of the culture war coming from the right?


Sadly... (5.00 / 2) (#15)
by Dadler on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 09:55:21 AM EST

...our president responds to this war by cowering in moronic fear of the class warfare card being hurled at him. We are "led" by idiot egos and imagination vacuums.

But yes, I'm tired of it too. I only wish we had some fight on the other side.


Can it really be considered (5.00 / 2) (#16)
by NYShooter on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:36:01 AM EST

a war if the assault comes from one side only while met by an equally agressive capitulation by the other?


: The left is pathetic in its response (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Rupe on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 12:53:42 AM EST

but the right is repulsive. There we go, our election choice in a nutshell: repulsive versus pathetic

: tiiiiiiime is on our side (none / 0) (#23)
by CST on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 10:48:30 AM EST

yes it is.

Anybody else... (none / 0) (#18)
by kdog on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:50:11 PM EST

totally creeped out by the fact C.U. even has such a thing as a "special assessment team" playing NSA with the student body? What's the world coming to?

See: V-Tech. See: Pima Community College. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by Towanda on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 05:06:10 PM EST

Nope, not surprised at all.

Campuses needed to get their acts together on this a lot sooner.

Ask a prof who has had a student hold a class hostage and came after the prof in her office and has had another student, a convicted felon, stalk her on and off campus -- and only later discovered that others on campus had endured incidents with both students but just dumped them from the major and never reported the incidents to anyone.

That's just one prof. Ask a group of profs, and the stories would turn you into an online student. (The stories of a group of profs are out there, on faculty fora, after every such incident.)

Remember, a prof tried to get V-Tech to do something about the deeply troubled student there. A prof tried to do the same at Pima about the deeply troubled student there -- and in that case, the campus did go to off-campus authorities. But maybe ask Gabby Giffords whether enough was done.


So now students and teachers... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by kdog on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 08:45:29 AM EST

not only have to fear the one in a million nut job, but also the threat assessment team?

Who could feel safe seeking mental health services when what they say in confidence can get them labeled a potential violent nut job, and tossed from school or fired?

It make you feel safer Towanda, but I think it may do more harm than good. I don't think I'd wanna attend a school that has a threat assesment team assembling a dossier on me, nor send my kid to one.

No easy answers.


You raise good points, of course (3.00 / 2) (#24)
by Towanda on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 12:54:56 PM EST

but most of what you worry about has been in place for a long time, such as requirements to report to authorities and access of authorities to mental health services' records, and not solely on campuses. There are dossiers on you, I suspect, at your workplaces and elsewhere. . . .

No, I don't feel at all safe on campuses today.

You do realize that campuses, unlike high schools, can have thousands of doors that cannot be locked or have metal detectors or the like? Have you ever had to stand up alone in front of many hundreds of hormonal kids, in an entirely unprotected lecture hall, and many of them were raised to hate you in one of the most right-wing counties in the country, and the class is in an atmosphere of protest and chaos, in a state at the center of the right-wing haters? And some of those students are relatives of the leading legislative right-wing haters in the state, and you have to teach about historic precedents to current events? And they're taping you to put you on Youtube at any point, before you even get back to your office? (And of course, such devices are not allowed. Try to enforce that on students sitting several hundred feet from you, in a low-light lecture hall, while you're trying to stay organized in covering your course material, trying to run a multimedia podium. . . .)

The hateful shout-outs, including from outsiders roaming campus to disrupt classes, and the hate emails . . . and this, while I was hit with another cut in pay and trying to figure out how to keep helping out my own kid in college (on a far safer campus, having transferred her away from mine; fortunately, we got her graduated, and now she will be teaching wee kindergarteners, and in a school that can lock all of the doors).

Worse, my campus now is in a concealed-carry state. We already had estimates, for years now, of at least five hundred guns on campus per day. Thankfully, past hostile students attacking and stalking me only had knives, scissors, etc. . . .

No, I don't feel safer. No easy answers, indeed -- so I take my own steps to avoid more harm, and I do my good teaching almost entirely online.


I haven't... (none / 0) (#25)
by kdog on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 01:39:50 PM EST

and don't envy your at times trying and difficult work...but before I dropped out I attended lectures with hundreds of well-behaved students and felt perfectly safe, when I showed up;), without knowing there may have been a department at my school tasked with trying to figure out if I got any mass murder in me.

The openness of the university campus, with unlocked doors and free people coming and going is something we should be striving to preserve...we've already got K-12 schools too closely resembling prisons, I think if anything it might be fueling the rage in the air, not lessening it.

With ya on concealed and open carry on campus...no place for firearms in a place of learning, no place.


Yes, I also was a college student (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by Towanda on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 01:55:41 PM EST

in a previous century. . . .


I'm still a young buck;)... (none / 0) (#27)
by kdog on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 02:02:18 PM EST

it was only 12 years ago for me, not ancient history.


: The year 2000 (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by Towanda on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 07:32:47 PM EST

-- twelve years ago -- was the previous century, even the previous millennium, sorry to break it to ya.
(Centuries and millennia and decades, too, end in the years with zeros . . . officially. And in this case, that seems so, as 2001 began a new era in so many ways.)
Yer, like, so last century, kdog. Admit it. lol.

"Guns don't kill people,........." (none / 0) (#28)
by NYShooter on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 07:23:28 PM EST

Guess how many people were killed with guns last year in Japan, a country with 127 million people, and very restrictive gun laws?

answer:... 11.

(wait for it. "Yeah, but what if you were one of those 11 people. If you had a concealed weapon maybe you could have.......")
