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Monday Afternoon Open Thread

I'll be busy the rest of the afternoon. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

BTD - some posting tonight, particularly on why the Ryan pick was an ill advised political move for Romney (think Florida and the fact his VP candidate can not campaign there).

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    Can't campaign in FLA... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:04:45 PM EST
    I can relate, I've been chased off a few lawns by seniors armed with canes in my day, and I was only after a shortcut, not their SS checks.  And Florida is a SYG state!  Better double the secret service welfare payment for Mr. Ryan, should he be so bold as to venture to Palm Beach.

    Funny sh*t that after the big pep rally in WI, Golden Boy Ryan was banished to Iowa.  Do they even give Iowa any electoral votes?  (j/k MileHi, Oculus, and all proud Iowans;)

    Repulican talking point (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:12:35 PM EST
    Ryan polls well with seniors.

    Fact is all the old blue hairs in FL have nothing to worry about.

    It's me and the rest of the working 30 and 40 somethings that his plan will affect.

    Parent

    Exactly. His mother is a Florida senior (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Towanda on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:45:23 PM EST
    on Medicare, as he points out, explaining that he wants nothing to change for her and other current recipients.

    Many boomers are far more imperiled, with the least amount of time to compensate in their careers for the loss of all that they have paid in for so long.

    Parent

    They have nothing to worry about... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:29:17 PM EST
    if they are only worried about themselves, perhaps.  Not everybody is like Team R&R Slado...I'd like to think seniors who have been served well by SS and Medicare want to see their boomer kids be taken care of in old age too, and their grandkids, and beyond.

    Parent
    Interestingly enough, (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:14:25 PM EST
    I heard an interview (admittedly, at a Romney-Ryan event in Florida) who basically said (paraphrasing here):
    "Well, Paul Ryan says we all have to sacrifice.  I know that my children will help me out with my medicines and such if it becomes necessary."

    She doesn't appear to be worried about her boomer kids being taken care of in their old age.  She thinks that they will be happy to take care of her.  Well, good luck with that, lady.  I hope that they really, really care about you, and that they all have decent enough jobs and enough money saved for retirement to be able to afford taking care of you, paying for your medicines, and also taking care of themselves and their own families.    ;-)


    Parent

    The thing (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:23:50 PM EST
    is though they're not asking EVERYBODY to sacrifice. If they were they might find some support. It's only the people that they deem "unworthy" who should "sacrifice"

    Parent
    Well, but of course (none / 0) (#21)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:32:35 PM EST
    Asking the extremely wealthy to sacrifice?  Quelle horreur!  Mon Dieu!
    Obviously, if you are not one of the very privileged, very rich few, you are not worthy.

    (Yes, that was snark.)

    Parent

    What an amazing statement to make! (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:41:52 PM EST
    The odds are probably better than even that her children and grandchildren are probably a lot worse off financially than she is.

    (Sigh!) Just another self-absorbed Republican who's busy raising up the drawbridge behind her after, she crosses the moat ...

    Parent

    Well, I was (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:46:51 PM EST
    pretty gob-smacked by her statement.   I think she has drunk way too much of the Fox News Kool-Aid.  
    I continue to be amazed at the number of people who vote against their own self-interests.

    Parent
    A friend told me her Fox-news watching (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 12:23:16 AM EST
    GOP neighbor sd. basically the same thing.  I've got mine.  Who cares about the succeeding generations.  

    Parent
    It's the age old mantra of conservatives (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by shoephone on Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 12:43:55 AM EST
    "I got mine, now scr*w you."

    Parent
    The working (none / 0) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:39:30 PM EST
    30 and 40 something? Do you think they support a personhood amendment? Do you think they like vouchers? Do you think they like a 94% pro George W. Bush voting record?

    The problem is that the GOP base is mostly seniors.

    Parent

    Since I clicked (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:09:29 PM EST
    on your link I'm finding that polls are saying that only THIRTY EIGHT percent approve of Ryan. Wow, I hardly think that's a majority of seniors. Once the ads start rolling, I'm sure that 38% might be his high.

    Parent
    7 electoral votes. 14.9% of pop. (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:14:46 PM EST
    over 65, which is a little over the national average.  Throw ethanol and drought into the mix.  

    Parent
    It wouldn't at all surprise me ... (none / 0) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:00:07 PM EST
    ... at this point if Republicans tried to blame the drought on Barack Obama.

    Parent
    Well, that didn't take too long, did it? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:13:44 PM EST
    We pretty much know where they were going to go, before they even know they're going to go there.

    Parent
    Donald, seriously??? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:17:40 PM EST
    This has got to be from The Onion!
    Well, OTOH, it is Boehner we're talking about.......

    Parent
    Hey, kdog, (none / 0) (#17)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:15:54 PM EST
    I use a cane, and I would never chase you off my lawn if you were taking a short-cut!   ;-)

    Parent
    Served on my first Jury (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:08:53 PM EST
    What an experience.

    Meth, meth and more meth.

    Came down to a women victim vs. the word of the accused male.   Neither was very sympathetic as both admitted to heavy drug use during a 3day bender.

    Prosecutor spent a whole day proving the testimony of both witnesses with physical evidence placing both in a car with another man when the alleged incident took place.

    She said he tried to choke and stab her.  He said they where cooking meth and got into a fight over a knife while they both tried to remove lithium from batteries.

    The prosecutor/victim had a story which said they kidnapped her after the two men accused her of being a NARC.  We the jury had to believe this story in order to not have a jurisdictional issue.  Most of the crime occurred in another county but since they originally kidnapped her in my county the law said we could convict him on all five counts.

    Problem was we didn't believe the kidnapping beating story.   We knew something happened in the car in the other county but we believed his story that they had gone their to make and smoke more meth.

    A few on our jury still wanted to convict him because he was obviously not a nice guy and he did harm her in the fight.

    I pointed out that since none of us believed anything bad happened in our county it didn't matter.   We where told by the judge in his instructions that the prosecution had to prove a crime was committed in our county to convict and the state didn't prove that.  The holdouts himmmed and hawwed for a while but eventually gave in as the law was pretty clear.

    We found him not guilty on all counts.

    I must say it was very enlightening to sit in that room with someone's life in your hands.  I will never look at a jury in one of the high profile cases the same way.   Knowing what I know now I will give the jury the benefit of the doubt in the future because in these high profile cases no one can know what it's like to sit in that box and hear only what they want you to hear compared to all the chatter and back in forth we're privy to.

    I didn't feel good about it afterwards but I felt I had applied the law and that I'd have felt worse if we'd sent the guy to jail and I'd had lingering doubt if that was the right thing to do.

    Excellent comment (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Democratic Cat on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:24:12 PM EST
    I've served on juries also -- it's no fun, but I liked that all my fellow jurors took their job so seriously. And it's a hard job. The easy cases usually don't get as far as a jury.

    Parent
    I served on a jury ... (none / 0) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:35:12 PM EST
    ... for a domestic violence case, in which all of us during our very brief deliberations concluded that the complaining witness had clear anger-management issues which rendered her testimony entirely less than credible, that she was actually the person who was most at fault by provoking the confrontation with her estranged husband in the first place, and that the entire family needed group therapy.

    We returned a not guilty verdict after being out only 15 minutes, and wondered aloud why the prosecutors even bothered to bring charges against the defendant. Both parties had been initially arrested for assault, because she had swung a baseball bat at him and he punched her in retaliation, but while he declined to press charges against her, she in turn declined to do likewise.

    Parent

    good for you! (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by womanwarrior on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:32:10 PM EST
    I am always so proud to hear of jurors who listen to what the law requires and don't just find the defendant guilty because they don't like him.

    Parent
    If being on a jury is challenging, (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:32:44 PM EST
    being foreman is even more so.  My experience was the proverbial herding of cats, but, as with you,  it gave me great confidence in jury decisions.

    Parent
    A jury returned a guilty verdict (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:20:02 PM EST
    here as to kidnapping after the car was brought in on a flat bed truck (inoperable, per defendant's gf).  Defendant could deactivate passenger side lock so victim couldn't leave the car.  When she finally did, she ran into the back entrance of a shop from the alley.  The witnesses inside testified she was trembling and seemed afraid.  No jurisdiction issue.  

    Parent
    I Served Twice... (none / 0) (#8)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:30:30 PM EST
    ...both petty and both juveniles.  The holdouts were problematic in one case.  I thought it was very weird to argue, even peaceable, with people I had never met.  It's not that I didn't care, but I knew what I was voting and trying to change a stranger's mind about it was painful.

    One thing I really hated, nearly everyone wanted to talk about it before the end which was in direct conflict with what the judge ordered.  It was like no one cared, and then after both attorneys polling us.  That was just weird, I was thinking this was kind of a private matter and then they both tried to find exactly why we went in the direction we went in.

    The other case took a plea while we were deliberating.  So two days wasted.

    But it is interesting to see how us average joes are part of the system.  How people's fate is in the hands of average people.  And really just how average those people are.

    Parent

    "Obama That I Used to Know" (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by caseyOR on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 05:12:52 PM EST
    Saw this parody of Gotye's song "Somebody that I used to Know" over at Susie Madrak's place.

    Kids in their 20s, recent grads, are getting harpooned by this economy. How is Obama going to get them to the polls this time?

    I don't think pretty speeches will do the trick.

    If Romney's Parade of Pratfalls ... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 05:53:16 PM EST
    ... continues, he may not need them.

    Parent
    The response of Democrats (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:15:53 PM EST
    that Ryan's plan would end Medicare as we know it, should be jettisoned.  The Ryan plan ends Medicare.

    That is the statement that needs to be made. And,  Ryan's replacement is something else: it is subsidized private insurance with varying premium support and  less coverage.  It is unstated what private insurance structure would serve as a foundation--prior to Medicare in 1965, a major issue was capabilities for private insurance with that immutable pre-existing condition, old age.

    Ironically, an effective individualized  coupon market would require all individuals to enroll, some might say, a mandate.  With Obamacare repeal a part of the overall plan, that base is unavailable.  But one thing is likely, that the coupons would provide for the purchase of less coverage  and result in higher premiums. The re-shaped iteration that allows options for Medicare or the privatized Ryan program, is not sustainable for either program and will cost recipients substantially more each year

    For those current Medicare recipients dozing off with the Ryan lullaby that these changes will not affect them since it would not kick-in for ten years, they will have a rude awakening to find a different Medicare, in both coverage and premiums as the program is phased-out.  

    The Dems should hire you today (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:40:23 PM EST
    because they suck at messaging!

    Parent
    Paul Ryan (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by lilburro on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:18:18 PM EST
    the only real reason I can think of that he was selected is that his all-out conservatism might bring in more corporate money than the others.  Thoughts???

    Yes, and to protect their (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:26:22 PM EST
    previous investment in Romney.   Certainly, the Koch Brothers are tickled pink.  Ryan seems to have all the attractiveness and charm of Santorum with the uniqueness of harebrained economics.

    Parent
    Rick Santorum's attractive & charming? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:36:38 PM EST
    I must have missed something somewhere. I've always thought of him as a smug little pr*ck.

    Parent
    I think that's what Dan's saying (none / 0) (#44)
    by lilburro on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:53:27 PM EST
    we're all in agreement.  I think Ryan and Santorum occupy similar places in the GOPantheon.

    Parent
    Romney has no need for money (none / 0) (#46)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 12:20:36 AM EST
    I believe Romney not only out-raised the Dems for the last 2 months but also has available hundreds of millions of dollars in PAC money - Rove & Koch Brothers, not to mention his personal resources.  The Republicans are awash in $.  

    Seems to me he chose Ryan to mobilize the base & have a running mate who knows how to deal with Congress if elected.  

    Parent

    Oh, Wesley Clark...reality TV - really? (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:38:45 PM EST
    A new "reality" show premiers tonight on NBC.

    Here's Glenn's take:

    A new military-themed reality show from NBC, entitled "Stars Earn Stripes," debuts tonight. The show "enthusiastically melds warfare and fame," as a Washington Post review today put it. It features eight celebrities (using the loosest definition of that term) -- such as husband-of-Sarah Todd Palin, former Superman Dean Cain, and former boy band member Nick Lachey -- paired up with "military and law enforcement veterans, including a Green Beret, a SWAT officer, two Marine sergeants, a retired member of the Delta Force and two Navy SEALs", whom NBC hails as the "Bad Ass Operatives." They're all under the "command" of Gen. Wesley Clark, who once actually thought he should be President, as he co-hosts this reality show with former Dancing with the Stars host Samantha Harris (subjecting oneself to the two preview videos below, one wonders how much NBC had to pay to purchase Gen. Clark's dignity in full: probably more than the Terror group MEK paid him to become its loyal shill).

    Together, says the LA Times quoting NBC, the "stars" and the Bad Ass Operatives will participate in "missions reminiscent of counterinsurgencies that have taken place all over the world," with "real bullets" and "real danger." Just in the first episode, says the Post, "they have to leap out of a helicopter into a lake while weighted down with automatic weapons and full gear; swim to a motorized raft; wade ashore under enemy fire; destroy a lookout tower with a grenade; shoot at paper `enemy' targets with live rounds; wade through mud to seize the enemy's ammo cache and then, finally, blow it all to kingdom come." In this maiden episode, one of the Bad Ass Operatives marvels at Todd Palin's skill in performing one of these tasks, and exclaims: "[He] is an animal! Good God! . . . . He's just straight-up Rambo!" The Bad Ass then adds: "Next time I go to war, I want Todd Palin on my side." Another Bad Ass Operative vows to take "Nick Lachey, guy in the boy band, and turn him into Nick Lachey, bad boy guy with a gun."

    Needless to say, this is all being done To Honor The Troops. The winner will receive $100,000 to donate to a military-related charity of their choice.

    [snip]

    UPDATE: Nine Nobel peace laureates have called on NBC to cancel this show, pointing out that "war isn't entertainment" and "people--military and civilians--die in ways that are anything but entertaining," adding: "Trying to somehow sanitize war by likening it to an athletic competition further calls into question the morality and ethics of linking the military anywhere with the entertainment industry in barely veiled efforts to make war and its multitudinous costs more palatable to the public." The list of those peace laureates singing the letter includes 1984 winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu, 1987 winner President Oscar Arias Sanchez, and 2003 winner Dr. Shirin Ebadi, though -- shockingly - it does not include the 2009 winner and current American President, Barack Obama (the one who, according to MSNBC's Harris-Perry, has "an impressive record on foreign policy for hawks": quite a strange attribute for a Nobel Peace laureate). Numerous anti-war groups have also been circulating a petition against the show and "war-o-tainment," which can be signed here.

    "Bad Ass Operatives?"  Seriously?

    How much money do you figure NBC has that it could just donate to military-related charities without turning war into a cheesy TV show?  Oh, wait - I guess NBC doesn't want to give its own money - just some teeny portion of the money it makes from this dreck.

    Ugh.  Just...ugh.

    One more gigantic reason to not watch TV. (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:08:10 PM EST
    I'm happy with my books and music and various other interests.  

    Parent
    We saw it advertised (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:21:01 PM EST
    Yuck!  Why would he do this?  I don't ever remember him being one who glorified the job that is often NOT glorious.  Maybe we all suffer from "Wegotosama-itis".  Disappointing, we need him for so many other real things.  Why can't he do something joint involved with Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton if he feels out of the loop, leave an amazing legacy if he can't be a President and doesn't want to hold another office?

    Parent
    Why would he do this? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:54:49 PM EST
    Does he need it that badly? (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 02:41:38 PM EST
    He retired out a General.  He could do just about anything he wants to do too and money I'm certain would be involved.  So I'm still not getting.

    Parent
    Does he still show up on CNN etc? (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by nycstray on Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 03:21:41 PM EST
    I'm not getting it either and am pretty disappointed he'd go there . . .

    Parent
    Yeah, I really hate this idea (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 12:28:28 PM EST
    and am disappointed in Wes Clark, for whom I used to have a lot of respect.

    Parent
    Wow that's a fairly impressive (none / 0) (#36)
    by brodie on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:10:02 PM EST
    rapid response from the Peace quarter, whose sentiments I tend to concur with.  And before the first airing.

    Rapid response comment from BTD?  Wasn't he a big WEC backer in the 2004 cycle?

    Parent

    I concur. (none / 0) (#38)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:30:43 PM EST
    This show stands as a "Bas Ass" monument to poor taste and insensitivity.

    People who cheapen the harsh reality of war for entertainment purposes should be dropped into the middle of a free-fire zone in Mogadishu, dressed up in outfits of hot pink, neon yellow and international orange.

    Parent

    Anxiously awating what BTD says (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:40:45 PM EST
    about Ryan. Hopefully he will be able to put it up before Master Chef comes on tonight!

    You're assuming, of course, that ... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:58:35 PM EST
    ... he's stopped laughing by now.

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 05:48:06 PM EST
    That is why I'm anxiously awaiting his reply. I think it's going to be a good 'un as we say down south.

    Parent
    Today marks the 30th anniversary ... (none / 0) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:57:57 PM EST
    ... of the release of Fast Times at Ridgemont High, the seminal 1982 teen comedy which launched Sean Penn on the road to stardom: "All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

    Fast Times also proved to be the launching pad for the careers of a number of other Hollywood notables, including Forrest Whitacker, Nicolas Cage (who was billed under his real name, Nicolas Coppola), Eric Stolz, Anthony Edwards, Jennifer Jason Leigh and director / screenwriter Cameron Crowe.

    And it reinvigorated the career of veteran character actor Ray Walston, who deftly played the tyrannical history teacher Mr. Hand, and proved the perfect foil to Sean Penn's stoner-surfer Jeff Spicoli. (There's one sight gag in the linked clip that will only be relevant to those of us who are over 40.)

    Ironically, Sean Penn's never done another comedy since. What a pity.

    Surprisingly... (none / 0) (#20)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:26:06 PM EST
    ...Phoebe Cates never did much after, maybe not surprising, but as a 12 year old boy, Judge Reinhold's dream sequences was nothing less than spectacular.  And Spicoli, well he was the stuff of legend; ordering pizza in class and smashing up the football star's car and blaming the opposing team, pure genius.

    But thanks Donald for making me feel old, 30 years, GD where do they go ?

    Parent

    Phoebe Cates retired from acting ... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 05:48:08 PM EST
    ... in 1994 after the birth of her second child, and currently owns and operates a Madison Ave. boutique (women's wear) in New York. She and husband Kevin Kline were married in 1983, and they live in Manhattan.

    Parent
    No offense to Sean Penn (none / 0) (#50)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 09:22:15 AM EST
    but to me he always be Spicolli.

    Parent
    Romney advisers (none / 0) (#22)
    by desmoinesdem on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:33:57 PM EST
    not wanting to wait for first round of polls, already in CYA mode telling Ben Smith this was Romney's idea, advisers against Ryan on ticket.

    Romney's aides have stressed publicly in the 24 hours since Romney electrified conservatives with his choice that the pick was the governor's alone. They have been less forthcoming on the flip side: That much of his staff opposed the choice for the same reason that many pundits considered it unlikely -- that Ryan's appealingly wonky public image and a personality Romney finds copasetic will matter far less than two different budget plans whose details the campaign now effectively owns.

    "Everybody was against [Ryan] to start with only Romney for," said one top Republican, who is skeptical of the choice and griped that Romney's top advisors have "been giving Mitt everything he wanted in this campaign."



    I'm not surprised to (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:56:24 PM EST
    hear that. I figured there had to be at least some smart GOP advisers but hey, Romney is the CEO and CEO's are used to being akin to dictators in that what they say goes whether anyone likes it or not.

    Parent
    Congressman Lee Hamilton's wife killed ... (none / 0) (#49)
    by Yman on Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 08:50:22 AM EST