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Empire State Building Shooting: Dispute Between Co-Workers?

By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 08:59:17 AM EST
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5th Avenue and 34th Street was not a good place to be this morning. 8 people shot, the shooter and at least one other are dead.

The New York Post says the cause was a dispute between coworkers.

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    Empire State Building Shooting: Dispute Between Co-Workers? | 52 comments (52 topical)

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    Totally off topic (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 03:46:11 PM EST
    But while most are keeping their eye on Isaac possibly hitting Tampa, and bands of storms are already covering South Florida today, lets keep in mind that (if I'm not mistaken) there are two TL commenters directly in it's path in the Florida Keys, KeysDan and Fishcamp.

    It's not a big storm by Key West Conch standards but the Keys are still little more than a beach that will be surrounded by water and storm

    Yes, put up storm shutters (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by KeysDan on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 05:39:52 PM EST
    as soon as our little rescue cat from Hurricane Wilma, Eve,  wouldn't go outside without being accompanied.   Will be quite happy if the shutter work proves unnecessary.  And, I do hope that Tampa is spared as well---hurricanes are not much fun, and particularly so for travelers, even Republican ones.

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    We hope that (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Zorba on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 06:08:47 PM EST
    the shutter work won't be necessary, either, KeysDan, but better safe than sorry.  Best of luck!
    (And isn't it amazing how animals are able to sense threatening weather, as well as things like impending earthquakes, well before humans can?)

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    My two rescue cats (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by fishcamp on Sat Aug 25, 2012 at 08:08:34 AM EST
    are seriously following me around the house all the time.  They are also eating more food than normal but still don't get along with each other.  If one cat gets too close to me the other goes into a hissy fit and it's quite funny.  They could be on America's funniest hurricane cats.

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    Onion (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dan the Man on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 09:13:11 AM EST
    Onion


    Cheers filled the streets and American flags waved triumphantly through the air today as the nation turned out in full force to celebrate an entire week having passed since the last time a madman opened fire on innocent civilians in some kind of fatal mass shooting. "We did it, folks! We banded together and managed to go seven whole days without killing our fellow Americans in a senseless murdering spree!"
    It doesn't appear to be ... (none / 0) (#5)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 10:43:43 AM EST
    a "typical" mass shooting.  Rather a murder followed by a gun battle with police.

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    When NYC turns into.... (none / 0) (#19)
    by heidelja on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 03:01:15 PM EST
    ...Smallville, USA for the curiosity seekers over-inflating the "largeness" of the "crime"! How many minutes have been burnt by CNN & MSNBC today over this little event while we hear much too little for the Republican gaffe of the day...Mitten saying "I have never been asked to show my birth certificate!"  

    Do people really understand the significance of this for one seeking what some say is the most powerful job in the world?  It seems that the little people have not yet caught on to what has been slipped past them by the Fascists in America government protecting "our security"!

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    Let's compare apples to apples (none / 0) (#21)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 03:08:36 PM EST
    How come the media jumped all over this tragedy in NY - where 9 people were shot, but ignored that 19 people were shot in Chicago overnight?  Is it because it wasn't one single act?

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    It was (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 03:29:10 PM EST
    in the biggest city in the US in front of the Empire State Building. It won't be news outside New York after today but yes a shootout outside the most iconic building in the country will make national news.

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    Well... (none / 0) (#26)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 03:46:59 PM EST
    ...it's not yesterday Prince Harry Pics, people getting shot and killed is important stuff, surely more important then a Romney gaff or bad joke, or whatever you call it.

    Parent
    Terrible, terrible, terrible... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 09:48:45 AM EST
    Pretty rare for NYC, thank goodness.  We have our murders, and the caught in the crossfire/stray bullet killings, and of course the 9/11 mass murder....but I can't remember a random firing on a crowd since Colin Ferguson on the LIRR.

    Cease Fire

    Intersting that Bloombegr was talking (none / 0) (#3)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 10:10:06 AM EST
    about guns right before the shooting started:

    Eeerily, just minutes before the mayhem, Mayor Bloomberg was warning about the dangers of "too many guns on the streets" on his weekly radio show.

    "The argument guns don't kill people, people kill people is one of the most disingenuous things you can say," he said shortrly before 9 a.m. while discussing tougher guns laws being proposed in Albany.



    Parent
    I saw that too (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 10:19:56 AM EST


    Parent
    Obviously.... (none / 0) (#24)
    by heidelja on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 03:42:26 PM EST
    ...the danger appears to be when police "fearing for their lives" have the guns!

    Parent
    Correction... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 01:31:49 PM EST
    Doesn't appear the shooter fired at random...latest reports say he shot his old boss and then exchanged fire with police.  The bystanders were hit in the crossfire.

    Parent
    As for the gawking bystanders.... (none / 0) (#20)
    by heidelja on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 03:04:09 PM EST
    ...soon enough we'll hear how good the sharpshooters of the NYPD might not be!

    Parent
    Why did the cops open fire if there was people... (none / 0) (#6)
    by redwolf on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 12:12:12 PM EST
    in the line of fire?  

    Great shootng there: (none / 0) (#7)
    by redwolf on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 12:15:56 PM EST
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_EMPIRE_STATE_BUILDING_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&am p;TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-08-24-11-49-15

    The two officers fired a total of 14 rounds, he said. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said some of the nine wounded may have been shot by police in the mayhem. Johnson's semi-automatic weapon was equipped to fire at least eight rounds; at least one round was left in the clip, police said.

    Perp fires 5 rounds.  Cops fire 14.  9 people hurt.  That's really good shooting guys. My god.

    Parent

    For all here and elsewhere who said (5.00 / 8) (#8)
    by Towanda on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 12:24:14 PM EST
    that the solution in the Colorado shooting was for the audience to carry guns and shoot up the theater:

    This incident today is evidence of your idiocy.

    Parent

    Can You Imagine... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 01:49:50 PM EST
    ...everyone on the street with a concealed weapon, this would have been the old west with a ton of fatalities.

    Parent
    Prove it. (none / 0) (#23)
    by redwolf on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 03:29:24 PM EST
    There are places where everyone has a CCW.  Find me a story were the CCW holders shot bystanders.  This isn't the first case I've read of were cops fired into a crowd of people and hit bystanders.  I still have read about a CCW holder doing the same.

    Parent
    good Gravy (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 03:54:53 PM EST
    Not to point out the obvious, but I can't prove something that didn't happen.

    But I feel pretty confident in believing the police are better at using their guns then your average gun tooter.  And they make lots of errors, so anyone without an agenda would reasonably assume there would be bullets going where they didn't want them to go.

    But you do bring up a good point, with the millions of conceal carry permit out there, why haven't any of these mass killings ever had a brave soul save the day.  Surely one of these events had someone with a gun, statistically the odds of someone not have a gun are probably as close to zero as you can get.

    But I will save your 'Prove It' non-sense for the next time you claim arming the entire nation will stop the violence.  

    It's not rocket science, more guns = more gun violence.

    Parent

    probably because (none / 0) (#35)
    by cpinva on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 07:38:54 PM EST
    why haven't any of these mass killings ever had a brave soul save the day.

    they were too busy ducking for cover, and wetting their pants. most likely better they didn't try to jump in and save the day: they'd have probably shot innocent bystanders, and then themselves been shot, by the police.

    Parent

    Can't say that anymore (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 04:04:10 PM EST
    Find me a story were the CCW holders shot bystanders.  This isn't the first case I've read of were cops fired into a crowd of people and hit bystanders.  I still have read about a CCW holder doing the same.

    Here ya go.

    CHL holder fired shot that killed store clerk


    Houston Police confirm it was a customer with a concealed handgun license who accidentally shot and killed a store clerk.  The CHL holder was trying to protect Tyrza Smith, 26, from armed robbers, but something went terribly wrong and she was killed.


    Parent
    As every weapons expert (none / 0) (#30)
    by NYShooter on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 04:11:23 PM EST
    will tell you the CCW holders were too busy soiling their undergarments to think about drawing their weapons. The biggest fear these heroes have is being discovered to be carrying and being forced to confront a real situation that only in their wet dreams do they come out victorious.


    Parent
    No kidding about the CCW pants wetters (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 07:04:01 PM EST
    Reminds of the the time I was attacked by a 6'5" insane streetperson while I was working an outdoor coffee cart. (He flipped out because we only served coffee, no booze.) As soon as his hands went around my my throat, I knocked his arms up off me and pushed him backwards all the way to the end of the other block, screaming the whole way. (Adrenaline works wonders.) He was too stunned to know what just happened.

    After he fled, one of my regular coffee customers, Mr. CCW rightwinger, who had been sitting there talking with me half the morning,  finally got over his terror and hopped to his feet to see if I was okay. I said, "What the he[[ were you doing, just sitting there! I coulda been killed, and aren't you the one who's always boasting about carrying a gun on you at all times??" He sheepishly responded, "You're right. I was too scared to do anything. But you were amazing!"

    Pistol packing chicken sh*t.

    Parent

    No offense, but I wouldn't shoot with deadly (1.00 / 1) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Aug 25, 2012 at 10:03:32 AM EST
    force, iow, shoot to kill, a homeless guy who was flipping out on you either.

    Now, if the guy had a gun and was flipping out on me, well, that would probably be a different situation. (No, I don't have a CWP)

    Parent

    Congratulations, you missed the point entirely (none / 0) (#45)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 25, 2012 at 08:27:27 PM EST
    I wasn't hoping he had shot the guy. I was being physically attacked by someone more than a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier than me, and the cocky, macho right winger who was sitting three feet from the attack did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to come to my aid. He sat there, like a scared child and let a small, young woman fend for herself. He even admitted as much.

    There. Is it clearer for you now?

    Parent

    Well, if you don't tell us that you're a (none / 0) (#48)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sun Aug 26, 2012 at 11:34:20 AM EST
    "small young woman" in your story how are we to know? We can't magically read your mind.

    Ya, he should have helped you. No, he should not have pulled out his gun. You only pull it out if you are in a situation where you are absolutely going to shoot to kill.

    Having grown up in fairly large town in NJ and spent a lot of time in NYC I have noticed that "big city" people seem to tend to not get involved in stuff like this compared to where I live now in Cali. Here, there's more of a sense of community and people seem to be more inclined to get involved and help out...

    Parent

    It doesn't sound like (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 26, 2012 at 12:31:34 PM EST
    it was NOT demonstrated that you were in danger of being killed and if the customer who paid your wages had responded he would have been nailed for manslaughter.

    But nice anecdotal story and I'm glad you weren't harmed.

    Parent

    Check out this video (none / 0) (#42)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Aug 25, 2012 at 10:06:47 AM EST
    here.

    Pretty sure the CCW holder wasn't the one who soiled his boxers...

    Parent

    Odd how he checked his sites and only fired.... (none / 0) (#44)
    by redwolf on Sat Aug 25, 2012 at 07:34:53 PM EST
    when he a clear line of sight.  He also didn't spay and prey.  But hey, he's not a professional like NYPD.  

    I've been watching police forces get more and more wild with their shooting for the last 20 years.  They unload entire clips in a very indiscriminate manner because they are almost never charged or held responsible when they screw up.  And these are the only people you want with fire arms?  

    I'd rather be a freeman who takes responsibility for my life and my actions than a slave that has to cowtow to morons who unload their guns in full panic fire mode.

    Parent

    Awesome (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 26, 2012 at 12:33:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Because why? (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 04:14:47 PM EST
    CCW holders are superhuman beings - unlike the rest of us - who never panic and lose their heads and act out recklessly?

    Because carrying a firearm automatically confers a state of pefect equanmity to it's posessor?


    Parent

    Nope (none / 0) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 26, 2012 at 12:37:27 PM EST
    but in all the states I am aware of you have to go to class and get some training.

    It helps some people, some people it may not. Even soldiers sometimes fail to respond in actual combat conditions.

    Parent

    What proof do you have (2.00 / 1) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 09:35:50 PM EST
    that the mythical Aurora concealed carry shooter would not have been a much better shooter??

    And the answer is.... none.

    Parent

    And what proof do you have . . . (none / 0) (#38)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 11:45:39 PM EST
    the CCW guy (yes, I said "Guy"!) wouldn't have hit the deck and peed himself?

    The answer is . . . none.

    Parent

    Of course I don't (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 25, 2012 at 08:37:24 AM EST
    no one has any proof of any of these claims.

    That's the point.

    What we have here is a failure to communicate.... understand.... that pinons are just opinions and everyone has favorites.

    Parent

    What "claim" in my post? (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Towanda on Sat Aug 25, 2012 at 09:39:36 PM EST
    What the h*ll are you talking about?  or with whom in your head?

    Parent
    Why in the h*ll can't you figure out (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 26, 2012 at 12:25:25 PM EST
    my comment was to NYstray.

    But yeah. We all have opinions.

    Parent

    Hizzoner the Bloomie (none / 0) (#10)
    by Zorba on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 01:37:43 PM EST
    promises a full investigation.  Cold comfort, I'm sure, to the victims and their families.

    Parent
    Maybe he needs... (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 01:57:45 PM EST
    to give his gun control speech at One Police Plaza...just recently the police shot a deranged man with a knife full of holes in Times Square in braod daylight.

    And how could we forget the 41 shots fired at unarmed Amadou Diallo, and all the bullets they pumped into Sean Bell's car.

     

    Parent

    Iirc, he had a problem with the Bell shooting (none / 0) (#16)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 02:02:36 PM EST
    right after it happened before all the details were out.

    Parent
    Good memory... (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 02:16:59 PM EST
    he said the right things, but he hasn't reigned in the department.  Sometimes I think Ray Kelly is Bloomy's boss....dude has carte blanche.

    Parent
    As long as the cops (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 04:08:14 PM EST
    keep showing up to the gated communites real fast,
    the Bloomies of the world will only go so far in their public criticism of the cops.

    Parent
    Sounds like (none / 0) (#11)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 01:48:47 PM EST
    a two year old argument that the shooter just couldn't let go.

    Parent
    What proof do you have (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 09:35:50 PM EST
    that the mythical Aurora concealed carry shooter would not have been a much better shooter??

    And the answer is.... none.

    Parent

    This makes no more sense (none / 0) (#47)
    by Towanda on Sat Aug 25, 2012 at 09:40:09 PM EST
    the second time.

    Parent
    It doesn't sound like (none / 0) (#13)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 01:53:42 PM EST
    the other victims were between the officers and the shooter. Bullets don't stop though.

    Credit does have to be given to the construction worker that followed the shooter as he walked away and fingered him for the police. Even kdog I think would be okay with dropping the dime on a shooter.

    Parent

    Correct assumption... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 01:59:15 PM EST
    exceptions to every rule CG, exceptions to every rule.

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    Prince Tuesday didn't seem as ... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 24, 2012 at 02:54:37 PM EST
    comfortable with that story as Kelly.  In the end, I think the story will be closer to pointing than following.  And the pointing with be closer to confirmation than information.

    Parent
    BTW - Not "in the line of fire" (none / 0) (#43)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 25, 2012 at 12:50:45 PM EST
    According to the police commissioner, the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but by bullets fragmenting when they hit planters, etc.

    Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds."

    The video shows the shooter walking behind some large planters when the confrontation with police began.

    Parent

    Empire State Building Shooting: Dispute Between Co-Workers? | 52 comments (52 topical)

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