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Marines Arrive in Yemen, Bomb Threats at U.S Schools

The U.S. Marines have arrived in Yemen following an attack there on the U.S. embassy.

Closer to home, bomb threats at University of Texas and North Dakota State University have led to evacuations.

Rhonda Weldon, the school’s director of communications, said the university received a call about 8:35 a.m. from a man claiming to be affiliated with Al Qaeda. The man said he'd placed bombs all over the campus that would detonate in 90 minutes.

There have also been attacks on embassies in Tunisia and Sudan.

The protests are rapidly escalating around the world. The U.S. has now identified Nakoula Basseley Nakoula as the a self-described Coptic Christian, as the key figure behind the anti-Muslim film that sparked the protests. He is on federal probation in California for bank fraud and the Probation Department confirms they are reviewing his case to see if he violated his probation. One of the terms was he could not use the internet. Authorities say he is "a self-described Coptic Christian."

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    Time (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by koshembos on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:28:15 PM EST
    It's about time people realize that 1000 people don't find themselves protesting together due to something they saw at home/office/Internat cafe separately. Some centralized inciting must get them together. Inciting is rational, political and motivated. Forget the word anger.

    Agreed (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 09:03:55 PM EST
    And another once in a lifetime we agree!

    Parent
    Obviously, (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 03:14:49 PM EST
    this is my opinion only, but I believe our approach to the Moslem community has been wrong, or, at least, misdirected. I mean, we treat them as if they are products of abusive foster homes and, so we have to be oh, so delicate, and understanding, in our dealings with them.

    We can argue till the cows come home whether Islam is a religion or a cult. I don't know enough about cults to speak definitively about them, but I do know that some of Islam's practices dictate behaviors that go beyond "suggestions or encouragements." In our high tech, advanced societies,  getting a billion Moslems to stop what they're doing, get down and bow their heads, touching the ground, suggests a behavior modification that goes far beyond most of the world's other religions.

    It seems to me that the excuse, "a small minority," for the atrocities being committed is wearing thin. At what point, if indeed, it is a "small minority," will the great majority stand up and crush those creating all the killing, themselves. When will the mantra, "education, not murder," replace "death to the Infidels," become the guiding light for the Moslem youth?


    A holy war against all of Islam (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 10:52:54 PM EST
    is a bad idea.

    And, it is hard to read an opinion on an entire religion whose adherents you refer to as "Moslems," when the correct reference is "Muslims," without questioning how informed the opinion is.    

    I think you will find that it is still a small minority involved in the protests, and a tiny, tiny minority involved in the military attack on the consulate in Libya.  

    Parent

    I thought so to but, spell-checker (none / 0) (#47)
    by NYShooter on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 02:05:57 AM EST
    replaces "Muslim" with "Moslem."

    Parent
    Heavens (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 09:01:08 PM EST
    Mark this day down.

    I agree with shooter.

    Have some okra and pole beans sides on me!

    Parent

    "Heavens" is right! (none / 0) (#27)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 09:46:31 PM EST
    But, keep your "okra and pole beans," a couple of Stolichnaya doubles for me!

    Parent
    P.S. (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 09:53:17 PM EST
    Regarding "a small minority:"

    From tonight's NYT:

    "Anti-American rage that began this week over a video insult to Islam spread to nearly 20 countries across the Middle East and beyond on Friday, with violent and sometimes deadly protests that convulsed the birthplaces of the Arab Spring revolutions, breached two more United States Embassies and targeted diplomatic properties of Germany and Britain.

    The broadening of the protests appeared to reflect a pent-up resentment of Western powers in general, and defied pleas for restraint from world leaders, including the new Islamist president of Egypt, Mohamed Morsi, whose country was the instigator of the demonstrations that erupted three days earlier on the anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

    The anger stretched from North Africa to South Asia and Indonesia and in some cases was surprisingly destructive."

    Parent

    Well, and what do you propose? (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:03:32 PM EST
    The transition from authoritarian governments to liberla democracies does not occur overnight.

    We need to protect our people.  Beyond that a war or a conflict based on relgious grounds will paint with too broad a brush and kill many.

    Parent

    I think it is time to back up (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:20:53 PM EST
    and quietly stop sending them money we have borrowed from the Chinese so they can riot and attack us.

    Simply put it is time these "countries" and "leaders" understand that if we buy them then they must do what we want.

    That must be our message.

    Parent

    Well, you are probably talking (none / 0) (#41)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:29:09 PM EST
    about our aid to Egypt.  It is by far one of the largest recipients of U.S. foreign aid.

    That aid has been given for close to thirty years as part of the Camp David Accords.   It has been part of the treaty that has brought peace in the Sinai all these years.

    I am not so sure that Israel would agree with suspending aid to Egypt.  If you do that, you risk re-opening a war between Egypt and Israel.

    It is complicated.

    Parent

    Yes it is complicated (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 10:37:50 AM EST
    But I wasn't referring just to Egypt. All of these countries that are rioting and not aiding us, including Pakistan and Afghanistan and Iraq, should be sat down told them that they act right or else no more American dollars.

    It is time we come to the conclusion of a foreign policy that started out, during the Cold War, as a means to help/protect us and has morphed into a welfare plan for people who hate us.

    And being nice and apologizing, which was Obama's contribution, has failed just as "real politk" failed as soon as we stopped propping up what ever "leader" for whatever reason.

    It just hasn't worked and we are broke.

    The party is over.

    Parent

    Oh good (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 11:24:47 AM EST
    grief. What a condescending paternalistic attitude and that's one of the reasons these people hate us so much. The answer is containment. These are not children you're talking to. These are adults albeit irrational ones but still adults.

    I thought all this stuff going on the middle east was great according to conservatives and it was because of the War in Iraq that all these "great things" happened. Now all of a sudden it's Obama's fault. Frankly what is going on is the product of decades of meddling in their business.

    Parent

    Act right or else? (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 10:44:22 AM EST
    Yes, the exact road to functional democracies.  Yer crazy as hell

    Parent
    Egypt in the top 5 perhaps (none / 0) (#119)
    by DFLer on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 08:32:31 PM EST
    but not the top. See Wikipedia chart. It also shows an interesting per capita figure.

    Foreign aid can be calculated by State Dept., USAID monies but also could include military assistance etc.

    But are we broke BECAUSE of foreign aid? Not. It's a small part of the budget, really.

    The money to Egypt pales in comparison to the 2008 TARP payment of $100 billion to Bank of America, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo. Do they hate us? Maybe

    Parent

    that's obscene the bucks (none / 0) (#121)
    by fishcamp on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 09:36:38 PM EST
    we give to so many people who hate us.  Unbelievable chart.

    Parent
    I read somewhere (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:16:35 PM EST
    that Morsi discouraged the rioters in English and encouraged them in Egyptian. (Arabic?)

    Parent
    Should we blame everyone (none / 0) (#35)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:14:06 PM EST
    in the South for the KKK?

    Parent
    It is often done. (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:17:01 PM EST
    Is it appropriate? (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:23:09 PM EST
    The KKK are/were overtly Christian and very violent.  Very similar to the extremists in the Muslim world.

    It takes time to defeat this type of extremism, and some of these countries are early in their infancy.

    Parent

    No it is not. (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 10:52:54 AM EST
    The KKK is no force whatsoever in the US and are not recognized or supported by any Christian denomination. (I recognize that someone will now play the Westboro Baptists, McVieg, etc.)

    When these ancient cards of our sins are played, the KKK, the Crusades, etc., all that the person is trying to do is get an equivalent between the Muslim terrorist and the west TODAY.

    At the same time they don't bring up the fact Islam was originally a very militaristic religion and invaded and converted by the sword.

    And yes, it does take time but I don't think it can be done by us. Time to tell them to straighten out their own world and that we'll leave them alone as long as they leave us alone.

    If they do, we can have relations. If they don't we should immediately response with our full force and might.

    That would be hard on the "moderates" but if they were truly moderate they would get control of their problems.

    That this hasn't happened is testimony to what shooter wrote.  

    Parent

    Oh for Christ's sake (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 11:00:33 AM EST
    Islam is not a militant faith, some of its followers are.  And it converted by the sword while the Jesus people used the Inquistion and burnt uppity self possessed women in the United States as witches.

    Don't try to get all Christian self righteous, it won't go well for you.

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 11:01:55 AM EST
    Inquisition, nothing makes me type too fast like some drivel from you.

    Parent
    "Originally" (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 12:22:53 PM EST
    originally your Christian brethren tortured, burned, and drew-and-quartered people..

    I thought we weren't going to use events in the distant past
    to explain what's occuring today??

    Parent

    and I'm still asleep.. (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 10:55:11 AM EST
    KKK .....and "is"

    .... immediately "respond"

    Parent

    Bill Maher is wrong (none / 0) (#73)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 12:00:00 PM EST
    Yes, our very own Bill Maher. He is very hostile towards religion but he always says that our religious wackos don't kill people like the Muslim wackos.

    But our religious wackos foment and desperately want a conflagration in the Middle East.  Conservatives need a villain.  Without the Soviet Union, they have been at a loss--this is why they elevated Saddam Hussein into Hitler with WMD.  With an external villain, they feel validated and do not have to look at the evil in their own hearts.

    And, look at the relgious conservatives today--quite animated and appearing even to relish the conflict in the Middle East.

    As if that were not enough, religious conservatives advocate torture.

    No, Bill Maher, in some ways our religious extremists are more dangerous than the Muslim extremists.  Our religious wackos are quite adept at fometing war, and since our country has a very powerful military, the reach of our wackos extends far.

    One of the greatest dangers we face is being pushed into a conflagration in the Middle East.  If you think the riots are bad now, what do you think would happen if we were to bomb Iran to set back their nuclear program six months?  

    John Lennon had it right in his song Imagine.

    Parent

    Two groups of violent nuts (none / 0) (#78)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 12:27:21 PM EST
    who always fly under the radar: the Israeli settlers and their Rapture-invoking, fundamentalist useful idiots
    in the U.S.

     

    Parent

    the Klan is hardly (none / 0) (#100)
    by DFLer on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 05:26:19 PM EST
    an ancient card of our sins

    Parent
    Sadly their faith has been highjacked (none / 0) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 10:06:52 AM EST
    By the power hungry in the same way that Christianity has.  The Quran has been cherry picked to find suggestions of violence and teachings distorted according to a chaplain that works with my husband.

    For instance, the Quran says that a woman must cover her bosom and now fundamentalists have interpreted that into the burqa.  There are hundreds of verses promoting peace, love, kindness, decency, and a handful that could be interpreted to promote violence.

     

    Parent

    The Old Testament (none / 0) (#74)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 12:02:59 PM EST
    is filled with all kinds of violence and the advocacy of violence.

    Parent
    The Old Testament was stolen from (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 12:25:34 PM EST
    the Jewish faith, as Christians we are followers of Christ....but we aren't, not these days.  I was taught though that Jesus brought us a new covenant and I don't have to be Jewish to be one of "the chosen" people now.  That is how that works.

    Jesus had different rules though in order for me to be one of the chosen, and I'm not to attack anyone for anything....maybe money changers but that seems to be it.

    Parent

    Religious conservatives (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 12:32:33 PM EST
    have little in common with the Jesus of the Gospels, and just love the Old Testament.

    Jesus divided fishes and loaves so people could eat; he was not dividing chariots or swords.  He was an anti-authoritarian who elevated real people above abstract principles.  Not much for consevatives to like.

    Parent

    Colonialism was awful (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 04:22:43 PM EST
    Post-colonialism is definitely his son.

    Societies never allowed to stagger and stumble and ugly their way to their own MODERN history will have to be allowed that "luxury" -- one we could never imagine not being afforded us in our history. Staggering and ugly it will be, but it must be allowed to happen on its own.  To think we can "influence" as we have in the past is folly. Beyond that, it's willfully blind.

    Do I think we will finally let these areas determine their own modern fate?  

    Of course not.

    Men & honor (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by SuzieTampa on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 04:05:19 PM EST
    First to NYshooter: Who argues that Islam is a cult? If you surveyed professors of religion in the U.S., the overwhelming number would agree that Islam is a religion.

    Second, as a feminist, I wish people would notice that it's not just Muslims or Muslim youths, it's overwhelmingly Muslim men who commit violence, just like men of other faiths. Many cultures instill in males that they can use violence to protect their honor. Until that changes, we'll always have angry young men attacking someone.

    Thread cleaned of (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 08:51:42 PM EST
    spat between Jim and other commenters.
    Jim, take your opinions on this topic to another site.

    It's Going Global... (none / 0) (#1)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:19:41 PM EST
    ...beyond anti-American to what seems like anti-everything that's non-Muslim.

    Outrage at the anti-Islamic film purportedly produced by a Coptic Christian in California spread throughout the Middle East and North Africa on Friday, with US embassies in Egypt and Yemen coming under assault. In Sudan, protesters stormed the British and German embassies, and in Jerusalem Israeli police fought with Palestinian protesters. The film's YouTube trailer has sparked days of violence in the Middle East and beyond.

    Guardian

    This sucks.

    We are witnessing the (2.50 / 6) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 09:02:43 PM EST
    implosion of Obama's foreign policy and it isn't a pretty sight.

    Parent
    Oh (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 09:28:59 PM EST
    good grief. Calm down and take a chill pill. The hysterical right always goes nuts. I know fear rules your life but some of the rest of us would rather actually find out what is going on and would you rather him act like Bush and think there's a mushroom cloud somewhere and have the whole world laughing at us?

    Parent
    GA, all you have to do (1.00 / 1) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:12:39 PM EST
    is connect what Obama said he wanted to do, and then did, and turn on the TV to see the result.

    Your snarks about fear and nuts reveal an undying love for Obama that may be nice from a personal view but decidedly uninformed when viewed from a historical and real world view point.

    Parent

    "decidedly uninformed" (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 01:41:52 AM EST
    lol!~ So nice to see you describe yourself when you say this:
    . . . reveal an undying love for Obama that may be nice from a personal view . . .

    You obviously do NOT pay attention. Which of course, makes YOU "decidedly uninformed". Just saying'

    Oh, and thanks for the laugh! :)

    Parent

    Ah, no, you got the wrong (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 02:30:53 AM EST
    person in terms of undying love of Obama.

    Parent
    ROTFLMAO (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 06:18:50 AM EST
    Undying love for Obama? You should read some of the comments that I have received on my criticism of Obama.

    link

    Watch the above speech. The Libyan Ambassador speaks in it and he apologizes for what has been happening and talks about what a wonderful person the ambassador was.

    Parent

    They get hysterical when things like this (none / 0) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 10:37:10 AM EST
    happen under a President who is a Democrat, when things like this happen under a Republican President they don't even watch the news.

    Parent
    Temporary (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:44:38 PM EST
    It's just the Muslim ultra-conservatives having their Arab spring fever.  I do wonder what our embassy in Egypt was tweeting about though when it asked the Muslim Brotherhood if they were monitoring all their feeds, even the Arabic ones, and did they understand that the embassy read those too?

    Parent
    Muslim Brotherhood was tweeting (none / 0) (#3)
    by caseyOR on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:47:47 PM EST
    support for USA, urging end to violence, in the English tweets. In the Arabic tweets the Brotherhood was urging the protestors on.

    So, basically, the embassy was calling out the brotherhood on its two-faced tweeting.

    Parent

    I think I get it now... (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:19:13 PM EST
    maybe this is the muslim world's version of kick the dog...no money, no prospects, no happiness, no representation in government...pay no attention to the men behind the curtain, it's time to kick the dog!  In this case, anything American is the dog.

    Not to say there aren't legit gripes, we all know there are...60 years of foreign policy, Israel, drones, military presence, occupation, etc.  They got 99 problems, but movies should not be one.

    Hopefully saner cooler heads start to prevail after the two minutes hate.

    Parent

    Kdog, (none / 0) (#9)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 02:54:48 PM EST
    do you really think that there are "saner cool heads" anywhere on this earth?  Because I am rapidly getting to the point that I don't think so.
    Mr. Zorba and I have a close friend who is always saying "humanity is a near miss."  I would tend to agree with him and amend it to say "humanity is a far miss."
    We have not come so very far from our primitive ancestors.

    Parent
    I do... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 03:12:16 PM EST
    there's you and Mr. Z, the entire TL community (or close to it), the billions of people who did a good deed today all over the world.  Keep the faith sister...as sorry as things seem I still insist 99% (or close to it) of the world is for the most part kind and decent.

    Easy to get it twisted when the 1% trying to ruin everything for everybody gets 99% of the press, ya know?

    Ya gotta believe...or why get out of bed.

    Parent

    Sweetie, I am (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 03:37:44 PM EST
    older than you are.  I have lived through the anti-Vietnam War protests, the Civil Rights movement, and the Feminist movement.  I used to be optimistic, and thought that all that we did would change the world, permanently.  I was wrong.
    There are, indeed, very many things that are way better than they were back then, but we seem to be going backwards, in so very many ways.
    I am willing to get out of bed, and support those causes I believe in, while still being prepared for the fact that whatever we do, it may not make any g*dd@mned difference.  I know that you, and several of us, have talked about the "pirate ship."  Which, of course, is a wonderful fantasy and fun to talk about, but it ain't gonna happen, in reality.
    And I know that you mistrust things so much that you avoid banks and credit cards and such like the plague.
    However, Mr. Zorba and I, while living in this country and participating to the fullest extent that we are able, have also made our plans to get the he!! out of the USA and go elsewhere, if worse comes to worst.

    Parent
    Allow me to rephrase... (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 03:56:59 PM EST
    I am optimistic when it comes to the individual being basically kind and decent, 99 out of 100.

    Institutions, religions, governments, corporations, countless faceless entities...not so much;)  Basic humanity gets lost in the groupthink, the indoctrination, the acceptance...all bets are off.  

    I'm not saying the world is ever gonna change or humankind will ever make that evolutionary leap beyond all the nasty as a whole...I'm saying the basic decency of the individual human is something we can hang our hats on.  I know what you mean by the trends, I sense them too...feels like we're devolving a little, two steps forward three steps back...I guess I'm hoping that perception is worse than the reality.

    Parent

    I think that (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 05:01:41 PM EST
    many individuals are basically kind and decent, but unfortunately, I don't think that it's anywhere near 99 out of 100.  I used to think so, kdog, but I no longer do.  And it may even be more than 50%, but too many of those "basically kind and decent" people do not seem to be willing to work for and support and vote for the people and the issues that will make any d@mned difference. And I can understand this, because so many of them are struggling to pay the bills and raise their kids and just survive on a day-to-day basis.  They don't have the wherewithal and energy to go up against the enormous forces of those with the power and the money who are running things.
    But when I contemplate many of the people that I know, who are basically kind and decent people, who continue to listen to those enormous forces and continue to vote against their own self-interests, I cannot help but feel totally discouraged.  I think that we have lost, and the forces of the 1% have won.
    :-(

    Parent
    Yeah 99% is much too high, (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by brodie on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 08:07:10 PM EST
    at least as we observe the situation before us, the attitudes and behaviors people bring to bear in the totality of their lives.  Were it so, or even close to that figure, we'd be much further along the evolutionary path both individually and collectively.  But actually we're close to devolving as a society.

    Might be truer to just say 99% of us have at least some slight influence of human decency, even if for some the bad influences heavily predominate.

    I figure things will improve one day -- but not for a few more centuries or so.  TPTB, including religion and powerful corporate interests and of course the NRA, won't be overcome overnight.

    Get back to me on this a few lifetimes from now, say 2512.

    Parent

    I think At This Point... (none / 0) (#15)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 04:22:33 PM EST
    ...not having a plan B is rather foolish.

    The writing is on the wall and I am so tired of all of it.  This Muslim stuff is product of the west, it's not about a single 14min clip, it's about out entire view of other people and the shame of us for invading their countries and doing basically what we please and then having a conniption when they express their frustration.

    And while I disagree with the way they go about it, I certainly understand it.  And freedom of speech is a great thing until it starts costing lives and generating hate.  It's not a universal right, it's an American and other countries right, but like everything else on the planet, if they don't behave like us and adopt our seriously warped views of freedom and justice, they are in the wrong.  We shout about freedom and injustice, but refuse to to even try Muslims in American courts, so we make up special off the grid facilities to ensure we can manipulate the very freedoms and justice we are out peddling.

    And no offense to kdog, but how is this any difference than OWS, the violence, sorry the people who are actually oppressed (as to our whining about oppression) have more anger in their hearts against their oppressors, or they are handling the outrage in way that makes Americans comfortable.  They are playing for bigger prices and are more serious about it, but it's the same, they are sick and tired of being oppressed.  When you measure their degree of oppression to ours, it's easy to see why their methods are more extreme, there oppression in infinitely worse.

    In some way they are retaliating in which we retaliated against an empire, foolish at first and using methods that we detest, but really, should they be holding hands and in front of BoA, that didn't really work out real well.  Still getting screwed and all it did was get a bunch starry eyed kids police records. Or should they start stripping their countries of everything foreign, everything they view corrupt.  Hard to argue that we aren't a corrupt nation.  

    Violence is never the answer, but GD, sometimes it's the only language anyone cares about.  And it's that most effective language, it's why our military budget exceeds all other combined, violence works well.  And even then, as in Syria, everyone cares until it's till time to put-up.  Of all the violence we propagate, Syria was just a little too much, let them figure it out while we use 'intelligence' (trickery and thugism) to make sure we reap more befits than anyone.  So there's a GD KFC on every corner and everyone is wearing Levi's while making sure we get that cheap crude.  While women and kids get ran over by an army.  We care enough to bring anyone we think might be a so called terrorist to 'justice' at GITMO while totally ignoring every single tenant the country was founded on.  Creating a special American justice system just for Muslims, complete with torture and indefinite detention.

    Really, the question I have, is how come it took this long ?

    END OF RANT.
    Have a good weekend.

    Parent

    Scott, you may be (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 05:19:05 PM EST
    even more fed up than I am.
    Violence is never the answer, but GD, sometimes it's the only language anyone cares about.  And it's that most effective language, it's why our military budget exceeds all other combined, violence works well.

    I never thought that way, although it was tempting to think that way back in the day, and it's tempting to think that now.  But if we seriously even approach contemplating violence, or worse, resort to it, then we are no better than the oppressors.
    I truly and sincerely understand your feelings on this, believe me.
    But I refuse to descend to their level.  Peace out, my brother.
    Namaste.

    Parent
    Zorba (none / 0) (#122)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 08:45:35 AM EST
    Even in the quote you used, I state that violence is never the way.  My point, I think, Friday was not that I condone it, but I certainly understand it.

    Innocent people are caught in the middle and that really stinks.

    Parent

    Correction (none / 0) (#17)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 04:24:04 PM EST
    comfortable s/b uncomfortable
    bigger prices s/b bigger prizes

    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 08:57:34 PM EST
    It's not a universal right, it's an American and other countries right, but like everything else on the planet, if they don't behave like us and adopt our seriously warped views of freedom and justice, they are in the wrong.

    All they have to do is just not attack us.

    The thing is.... this really is about religious nut cases whipping up the great unwashed mob in the mistaken belief they can make the world obey them.

    Ain't gonna work. And I am sad the thought of how many will die in the backlash.

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    We're in agreement, Jim! (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 07:42:58 AM EST
    The thing is.... this really is about religious nut cases whipping up the great unwashed mob in the mistaken belief they can make the world obey them.

    Now if the producers of this film and their fellow Islamaphobes would cut the cr@p, maybe things will settle down.

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    Islamophobic (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 12:48:24 PM EST
    and still ranting, Brother Jim Birch fashion, about how them commonists was behind all those demonstrations in the sixties..

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    Jim (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 08:56:16 AM EST
    You could be the spokesman for Muslims around the world, great advise for all sides:
    All they have to do is just not attack us.

    The thing is.... this really is about religious nut cases whipping up the great unwashed mob in the mistaken belief they can make the world obey them.

    I would add to attacking, 'stop building military bases and putting military personnel on our/their soil', but that is a one way street.

    And for the record, it must be really nice to live in a vacuum where Muslims have attacked us absolutely no reason.  They just woke up one day hating a nation on the other side of the planet for absolutely no reason.

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    different values (none / 0) (#10)
    by markw on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 02:56:23 PM EST
    It's important to realize that we are dealing with societies that have very different values than in the US or most countries in Europe.  In Egypt, for example, according to a survey by the usually reliable Pew Research Center, 84% of the Muslim population supports the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim religion. That's a mind-boggling different view of the relationship of religion to society to freedom and personal choice than in the US.  

    People like to compare the Christian right in the US to Islamists in the Middle East, but what percent of the Christian right believes that people should be put to death for leaving Christianity?

    So yes, there are hard-core salafists that are fanning the flames in Egypt, but the broader problem is that there is that there are very few Muslims in the country who support even the most basic freedoms related to religious expression (or expression about religion).

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    I will continue to compare (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 10:34:58 AM EST
    The Christian religious right to the rightwing of Islam, the only thing that has prevented them from heading down the same roads is that we have avoided becoming a failed state at any point, and many of us still demand separation of church and state.  Fundy Christians argue to have that separation dissolved though, and until they stop they are no different than Fundy Islam....not one bit different, only lacking the same social power.

    Where the wingnut politicians really frighten me is where they keep insisting that charity should come from churches and Dubya pumped big money into churches.   In the Islamic faith the Mosques are used to distribute food and all manner of basic needs.  I remember when we went into Iraq, and sociologists who tried to stop the Bush administration but couldn't so they begged at least to please distribute food and all manner of necessities to the moderate Mosques in country so that they would become the social centers with power.  The Bush administration blatantly ignored that, I think they even laughed at that.

    When people in great need get their needs met through a religious entity that entity takes on a new meaning and earns a different form of loyalty.  Eventually though, the religious leaders can say all manner of horrible inciteful things and the loyalty of followers is baked in because they have needs that must met, children must be fed and cared for.

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    I Don't Know... (none / 0) (#4)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:56:57 PM EST
    ... KFC and Hardees in Lebanon torched, what the hell does fast food have to with anything.  Seem like they are going after anything western.  

    At lunch I saw a CCN female reporter in the middle of the mix at Jerusalem, complete with a flack jacket.  Surely they have to know she was an American.  So they are trying to scare the wits out of us while sticking one of their own in the mix.  Does not compute.

    All that aside, this pic of a burning KFC is too funny.  What did the bird ever do to them ?

    Full disclosure: I hate chicken.

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    Maybe if it was (none / 0) (#5)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:59:46 PM EST
    a "Kentucky Fried Pork," it almost might make some kind of warped sense.
    This is going to get even uglier, though, I'm afraid.

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    Just an fyi (none / 0) (#8)
    by lilburro on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:40:36 PM EST
    Austin is fine right now, seems to have been a prank (I assumed it was as I doubt a terrorist would call ahead, but who knows).

    "There was always a question about the credibility of the threat," he says. "There was also a threat in North Dakota. Our evaluation continued ,and we could not assure ourselves this was not a credible threat. We could not assure ourselves the other way." Powers would later say, "It's easy to make a phone call," after all. And had the threat said bombs were to go off in, say, five minutes, buildings would have been evacuated immediately.

    "The buildings were cleared very expeditiously before the time of the threatened issues," he said. "We are very confident now, working with state officials, our officials, federal officials. We can't go in to every detail of why we know this, but we are extremely confident the campus is safe."

    - Dallas News

    My husband says they do all the (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 07:43:35 PM EST
    time in the movies

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    Simple solution (none / 0) (#29)
    by diogenes on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 10:45:55 PM EST
    One candidate for president is Mormon.  A major, award-winning play on Broadway is the Book of Mormon, which does not exactly depict the Mormon religion or its founders in a flattering light.  No Mormons are firebombing that theater.  I still remember Mapplethorpe putting a crucifix in urine.
    The West believes in freedom of expression, so a simple solution is this.  If anyone foments a violent attack on an alleged "disrespect", that disrespect should be put on the front page and be the lead story of every newspaper and television program in the entire Western world.  

    Or get in their face? (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 10:58:41 PM EST
    That doesn't sound like it would be all that helpful.

    A recipe for even broader conflict in the Muslim world.  But that seems to be what many conservatives really yearn for--an existential war akin to Armageddon.  That is why we invaded Iraq.  And why we can never let Republicans be in power again.

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    Not sure you want to go with Maplethorpe (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by caseyOR on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:06:56 PM EST
    as an example of tolerance. And the Jesus in urine photo was the work of Andres Serrano. Maplethorpe was hated for his portrayals homosexual sexuality.

    The angry response to both Maplethorpe and Serrano was over the top. Nobody firebombed the Corcoran, but we are still paying the price for the outpouring of anger and hatred for the arts that the right ginned up.

    The attacks on the NEA were the political version of fire-bombing. Budgets were slashed. Repeated attempts were made to defund the NEA. The very idea that the U.S. would celebrate and support art was portrayed as the height of elitism and downright unAmerican.  

    That battle, which went on for years (it's still not really over), was, in its own way, as vicious an attack on culture as the attacks we are seeing in the Arab world. It did enormous harm to individuals and to the entire tradition of American art.

    Oh, I know, nobody here burned down a gallery or a theatre. Nobody here actually killed artists. They sure tried their damnedest to obliterate any appreciation of and support for the arts in the U.S. The right proved itself to be a throwback to another, less civilized, century, much like radical Islamists have proven themselves to be.

    I would hardly call what happened an example of our belief in freedom of expression. And let's not even get started the on book-burning and book-banning that goes on here in our corner of the West.

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    And I am not so quick (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:37:10 PM EST
    to absolve right wing Christians of violence.

    True, right wing Christians typically do not egange in direct violence.  But they support torture and helped drumbeat us into the Iraq War.

    This whole conflagration for me calls into question the efficacy of religion across the board.   You need a lot of patience and tolerance among believers to keep religion from inflicting a lot pain on other people deemed heretics.

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    They do engage in direct violence. (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by caseyOR on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:47:49 PM EST
    The murders of abortion doctors, that's direct violence. They just don't use direct, physical violence as often as people in other parts of the world.

    And I agree, they certainly support direct physical violence. It was some of our own home-grown rightwing Christian Evangelicals who inspired the anti-gay laws in Uganda, including the death penalty for being gay law.

    The bill has an American genesis of sorts, inspired to a large extent by the visits of U.S. evangelicals who are involved with a movement that promotes Christianity's role in getting homosexuals to become "ex-gays" through prayer and faith. Ugandan supporters of the bill appear to be particularly impressed by the ideas of Scott Lively, a California conservative preacher who has written a book, The Pink Swastika, about what he calls the links between Nazism and a gay agenda for world domination, which, by itself, would have raised the anti-colonial sensitivities of Ugandan society. Says the Rev. Kapya Kaoma, an Episcopalian priest from Zambia who authored a recent report on anti-gay politics in Uganda, Nigeria and Kenya: "The U.S. culture wars have been exported to Africa."

    Yes, hate is one of our major export products.

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    Good point (none / 0) (#45)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:55:48 PM EST
    I have for a majority of my life been very supportive of religion in general and Christianity in particular.

    I am starting to believe, however, the costs outweigh the benefits.....

    But Catholic Charities and hospitals do a lot of good work.....

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    Violence. (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by lentinel on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 05:09:53 AM EST
    True, right wing Christians typically do not egange in direct violence.  But they support torture and helped drumbeat us into the Iraq War.

    I don't know that you can generalize about any group concerning whether or not they typically engage in direct violence - except a group that explicitly advocates direct violence.

    I do know that some leaders, like GWBush, identify themselves as Christians. Even when they're not asked about their religious orientation. That's one of the reasons that I am repelled when a secular leader, such as the president of the US, invokes God whether it suits him.

    As as for W., we have him to thank for the slaughter of 100s of thousands.

    And then, there is the constant image - first made popular in the old death row movies of the 30s and 40s - in which a Priest is leading the condemned man to the chair while reciting the "Lord's prayer".

    Supposedly they are there to comfort the condemned, but it always looks to me as if they are there to finish the breaking of the spirit of the condemned so that he will proceed quietly and methodically into the death chamber instead of struggling, trying to break free, or in some other fashion give the prison officials a hard time.

    For myself, not a person born into the Christian religion, I have to separate the teachings of Jesus, what he is quoted as having said by the Gospels, and the teachings of the Church. I usually don't see the connection at all.

    The former has influenced me greatly.
    The latter often has me scratching my head.

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    To your point: (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by NYShooter on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 06:04:40 AM EST
    From Mahatma Gandhi

    "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
    ~~~~~~~

    A lesson lost on our "Religious Leaders:"
    "Poverty is the worst form of violence."
    ~~~~~~~

    Gandhi's sense of humor:

    "What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea."
    ~~~~~~~~~~


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    Best post since all this started going down (none / 0) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 04:36:13 PM EST
    I'm reluctant to get overly upset about any of this stuff right now.  The loss of life in Benghazi was extremely regretful, but that consul was only a transitional property and was not built to withstand any kind of assault from anyone.  It isn't pleasant to have embassies under attack, but as far as I know they have what they need to make it through this and the Benghazi property and situation was a very different creature.

    This is the reaping of NeoCons running our policy though for eight of the most miserable years of my life.  The bring it on idiots from hell that now all hang with Romney.

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    When did Maplethorpe (none / 0) (#40)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:24:41 PM EST
    have that exhibit?

    Had to have been close to thirty years ago.

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    It was in the summer of 1989. (none / 0) (#42)
    by caseyOR on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 11:31:17 PM EST
    The exhibit was a retrospective of Maplethorpe's work. The Corcoran cancelled it before it opened. They had not yet received any direct political pressure to do so, but they were fearful that such pressure would come and that the Corcoran's federal funding would be in jeopardy if the exhibit went on.

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    And it was shown the next summer (1990) (none / 0) (#49)
    by shoephone on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 03:50:03 AM EST
    in Boston, at the MFA. It was one of the most amazing photography exhibits I've ever seen. The man was a brilliant technical and creative artist.

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    Nakoula being questioned ... (none / 0) (#56)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 07:55:26 AM EST
    ... by the FBI ... voluntarily.  Turns out it may have been a parole violation if he posted the video to Youtube.  He had previously called police to request more patrols when the media began showing up at his home.

    Good report Yman (none / 0) (#82)
    by fishcamp on Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 02:15:37 PM EST
    I knew that crappy video was shot in the California desert.  Different kind of light on different sand than ME deserts.

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