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TGIF, peeps. Oh, and in sports news, a starting lineman from the Miami Dolphins left the team after having to endure bullying by teammates (LINK). No wonder the franchise has been sh*t for three decades now.
They have not mentioned any previous events, only referring to it as bullying.
I read something not long ago about one of the commonalities to mass shooting was the person had been embarrassed publicly in the recent past. It wasn't concluding anything, just mentioning that nearly all of them had that one common thing. To some people, usually with mental issues, publicly embarrassment seems to be what triggers them. They also seemed to be, and I can't remember the term, but the scapegoat, either at school, at work, or even in the family where a member of a group is perceived by others as being the black sheep when in most cases it's not deserved. But human nature tends to chastise those who are different, which in the mass shooters cases, where generally those who we shy and quiet, and the people doing it are almost always unaware of it.
But in the NFL, really, isn't all the jabber jawing on the field meant to intimidate, to bully. I don't know, I am torn on this one, and unfortunately the NFL will ensure we never get the full scoop if it was bad. Parent
The NFL players union is investigating Incognito as the source of the harassment. Some football forums are hinting Martin was harassed because he was suspected of being gay. Incognito left Nebraska as a soph and was kicked off the Oregon team before turning pro. He had a troubled past with the Rams and the Bills before winding up at the 'fins. The 'fins are defending Incognito as a model citizen.
Not sure just what the story is but it seems like more drama than most sports teams have. Parent
Of the four Republican offices, one was amenable to listening to me, but insistent that I give her my name and address for a cookie-cutter email reply (which I declined); one office only had a voice mail; one Republican staff member actually had the audacity to state that they are not allowed to talk about issues like that from the state office because "that's a policy issue, and we don't deal with policy here. You'll have to call D.C."
The last was Republican Dave Reichert's office, and while the staff member readily stated that Reichert had voted to cut benefits the last time around, she was very nice, more than willing to engage in a respectful discussion, and, dare I say it...even compassionate-sounding when it came to the issue of people not being able to feed their kids, while agri-businesses continue to receive subsidies from taxpayers.
Bottom line, all the reps offices are cranky at us for calling and being engaged in issues like this. They really DON'T want to heat from us..unless, of course, we are calling to shower the rep with accolades.
By the way, the House isn't in session right now. They've taken another two weeks off. Parent
Dadler: "I always get a tad passionate on the phone with my reps' reps, then they tell me if I don't calm down they're going to hang up."
... with whom you are talking at the congressional representatives' home offices in your respective districts are paid about $30,000 annually. If it's a state legislative office, their pay may even be less. I know that may surprise a lot of you who may have believed that congressional and legislative aides are generally rolling in the dough, but it's true.
I'm not singling you out, Dadler. But having been on the receiving end of a not-insignificant number of these calls during my years in the business, and this being a family-friendly site, I can't begin to tell you some of the absolutely horrible things that have been said to me in that capacity. What I can tell you is that there are an awful lot of people who apparently believe that as taxpayers and voters, they somehow have license to verbally abuse the help. I even had my life threatened on a couple occasions!
While all of you have every right to contact your elected officials to convey your opinions and inquire as to said elected official's position on a given matter -- and I strongly urge each of you to exercise that right -- please be respectful of the person who's on the other end of the phone and taking your call, and don't take out your frustrations on them by treating them like your personal piñata.
Quite frankly, the majority of these people are not paid enough as it is, and certainly not enough to be cussed out and even threatened by angry constituents.
Aloha. Parent
There are lots of people who aren't paid enough. If we're going to completely change the subject to income, then I'd rather talk about teachers. Parent
The compassionate and concerned citizen talking to a political aid who thought they were going to make a difference but has been forsaken to phone duty until they learn to despise the very people their boss represents. Then and only then are they accepted as having the right stuff. Parent
I had to go on welfare and food stamps for a few months about twenty years ago. It's not something you ever forget, is it? In fact, I've kept an old two dollar packet of food stamps in a dresser drawer as a reminder of where I've been. Let's call it a strange kind of keepsake. Parent
And I called my two Dem senators as well. Got voice mail only. Parent
Eric Cantor is cutting the number of work days for the House from 126 to 113 next year so they have time to campaign and fundraise. Parent
Those 126 days you're referencing, soon to be cut to 113, constitute the days in which the House is actually gaveled into session in the House chambers at the Capitol. The rest of the time, their offices are open five days a week, 52 weeks a year save for federal holidays.
House Majority Leader Eric Cantor is rewarding the least popular House in history by cutting their number of scheduled work days from 126 in 2013 to 113 in 2014. The 2014 House calendar reveals where the Republican majority's priorities really are. House Republicans are scheduled to be in session for only 12 days in each of the first three months of the year. The "busy month" for House Republicans will come during the usually slow July political season. This schedule is all about giving House Republicans the time to campaign in their districts and fundraise. They will be on vacation for the entire month of August, in session for 10 days in September, and will only be working for a laughable two days during the month before the 2014 election.
The 2014 House calendar reveals where the Republican majority's priorities really are. House Republicans are scheduled to be in session for only 12 days in each of the first three months of the year. The "busy month" for House Republicans will come during the usually slow July political season.
This schedule is all about giving House Republicans the time to campaign in their districts and fundraise. They will be on vacation for the entire month of August, in session for 10 days in September, and will only be working for a laughable two days during the month before the 2014 election.
I don't recall saying anything about their staffs, since the conversation was about the House being in session.
But thanks for playing. Parent
shoephone: "[O]ne Republican staff member actually had the audacity to state that they are not allowed to talk about issues like that from the state office because 'that's a policy issue, and we don't deal with policy here. You'll have to call D.C.'"
When I worked for the late Congresswoman Patsy Mink in the 1990s, the staff in our Honolulu office were directed to refer all constituent inquiries about current or pending legislation to the D.C. office. And if the media called, staff were directed to refer those calls immediately to Mrs. Mink's communications director in Washington.
The reason for that was because the district office -- which was staffed by no more than seven people -- primarily concerned itself with district case work, i.e., constituents who were having a problem with a federal agency and needed the congresswoman's assistance or intercession.
(And you'd be surprised how much case work they actually did. They received an average of 60 inquiries daily, from Social Security benefits to tax issues to requests for appointments to the military academies. Further, it was also their job to arrange U.S. Capitol tours for those constituents who were planning a trip to D.C., and we'd average about four of those daily, too. We actually had another office next door in the federal building in Honolulu that was filled with nothing but file cabinets, each one full of case work files.)
When constituents called the Capitol office in Washington to express their opinion, staff in that office were directed to record the constituents' concerns and try to get some contact information, but to not engage in any prolonged political discussions with constituents.
That's because save for Mrs. Mink's communications director, the staff were not officially authorized to speak on behalf of the congresswoman, unless they were given a memo which outlined her position on a topical issue that was generating public interest. Then they were allowed to quote from that.
"If anyone in this office is going to put their foot in their mouths," Mrs. Mink used to tell us, "please let it be me, and not you."
I came to appreciate Mrs. Mink's established staff protocols as good legislative office policy. It served to protect her staff from either creating or getting caught up in some inadvertent controversy, by placing the responsibility for communications and messaging directly upon the congresswoman herself, where it properly belonged. When I returned to work at our state legislature in 1999, I subsequently adopted that policy for the Speaker's office.
I can also tell you that it is near impossible to get through to a live person at Patty Murray's D.C. office pretty much any time of day, any day of the week. That number almost ALWAYS goes directly to voice mail.
So much for being accessible to us slobs who pay their salaries and pay for most of their health care. Parent
I am no fan of Bloomberg or Michelle and their efforts to restrict what folks buy with their own money. But in this case I would like to see food stamp purchases restricted to real food. No soda, no chips, no candy, ect.
But the bigger issue is the structural problem that forces to depend on food stamps. Parent
Today there are massive numbers of folks living in congested urban areas without even enough space to grow pot. There is also a massive lack of skills to survive.
I just returned from six weeks sailing in the Dry Tortugas. Probably half my food was lobster and Mutton Snapper I harvested my self. I also supplemented my water supply using tarps to catch rain water. My boat has extensive solar panels for refrigeration and navigation, not to mention computer use.
It is one thing to say the needy should be provided assistance. It is a different thing all together to support a system that creates a dependent class and then demand support for them.
The system is what needs to be changed. Parent
What makes you so confident that poor folks aren't growing their own food ? But I highly doubt may have the 2 acres it takes to support a grown adult, add in kids, and I am pretty sure most of the Nation's poor will never, ever own that kind of property.
Skills to survive ? Surely you jest; I give you 45mins in the dead center of Houston's poorest area on a good day. Pretty sure most of those folks would outlast you any day of the week in a real survival mode, not sailing for pleasure 'survival mode'.
The only structural issue is people like you think poor people like being poor and that the only thing holding them back is the little help we give them. In a year you can explain why cutting food stamps didn't actually reduce the number of poor folks, because you clearly believe the aid is hindering them so reducing it should reduce the number of poor, correct ?
And lastly, you know when unemployment is at say 10%, that doesn't mean 1 in ten are lazy, it means for every 10 people that want a job, 1 doesn't get one. For the country, that is like 20,000,000 people who don't have a job because it doesn't exist. Parent
There are currently about two million fewer people working than when Obama took office, which is better than the around five million at the worst of Obama's first term. Of course the population has grown as well, but the labor participation rate is at historic lows. The economy is bad and there is no way to sugar coat it.
This is the biggest problem I have with Obama, he has not fixed the economy. Parent
I can't help thinking how much this reminds me of one of those yuppie "self actualization", I-am-the-world, wilderness retreat accounts. I went through est, so why can't all those welfare mothers and their kids?
Christopher Lasch's Culture of Narcissism in all it's glory. Parent
But what they can do is better understand their reality and try and change it. Parent
Heh. Parent
But congratulations on all your sucess, just the same. Parent
Fewer expenses for wages and the purchase of their stock-in-trade, and more income from even more customers who can't afford to shop anywhere else and have to buy their products, therefore the result is more profit for them! The executives and owners of Walmart are ecstatic, and after all, who else counts? {{Sigh}} Parent
But I can't recall that she ever said anything remotely like "You will not spend money on potato chips and pop." Parent
OTOH $2.2 B was stripped from the food stamp program to pay for Michelle's nutrition program.
With his wife by his side, President Obama on Monday signed the child nutrition bill, strongly pushed by the first lady, who has made nutrition part of her campaign to help the young get healthy. ... The bill also increases the spending per meal by about 6 cents, President Obama noted. He said the money for funding the increase came from cuts in the food-stamp program but that he was committed to working with Congress to find a way to restore those funds. link
We're very excited to announce two new members joining our team: Dan Froomkin and Liliana Segura. Dan and Liliana will work alongside Laura Poitras, Jeremy Scahill, and me as we develop our new venture with Pierre Omidyar. Dan Froomkin is a veteran journalist who has received national acclaim for his writing about U.S. politics and media coverage. He's been particularly focused on the issue of journalistic accountability - i.e. correcting misinformation, asking critical questions, and holding those in power accountable to their actions. He was preparing to launch a website called FearlessMedia.org when we approached him about working with us. Before that, he was senior Washington correspondent and Washington bureau chief for The Huffington Post. During 12 years working for The Washington Post, he spent three as editor and six as the writer of the popular and controversial White House Watch column. Dan has also worked since 2004 for the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard, most of that time as deputy editor of the NiemanWatchdog.org website. Liliana Segura is journalist and editor with a longtime focus on prisons, prisoners, and the failings and excesses of the U.S. criminal justice system-from wrongful convictions to the death penalty. She covered these and other issues most recently as an editor at The Nation Magazine, where she edited a number of award-winning stories. Previously she was a senior editor at AlterNet, where she was in charge of civil liberties coverage during the early days of Obama's presidency. She is on the board of the Campaign to End the Death Penalty and the Applied Research Center, a U.S. racial justice think tank.
Dan Froomkin is a veteran journalist who has received national acclaim for his writing about U.S. politics and media coverage. He's been particularly focused on the issue of journalistic accountability - i.e. correcting misinformation, asking critical questions, and holding those in power accountable to their actions.
He was preparing to launch a website called FearlessMedia.org when we approached him about working with us. Before that, he was senior Washington correspondent and Washington bureau chief for The Huffington Post. During 12 years working for The Washington Post, he spent three as editor and six as the writer of the popular and controversial White House Watch column. Dan has also worked since 2004 for the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard, most of that time as deputy editor of the NiemanWatchdog.org website.
Liliana Segura is journalist and editor with a longtime focus on prisons, prisoners, and the failings and excesses of the U.S. criminal justice system-from wrongful convictions to the death penalty. She covered these and other issues most recently as an editor at The Nation Magazine, where she edited a number of award-winning stories. Previously she was a senior editor at AlterNet, where she was in charge of civil liberties coverage during the early days of Obama's presidency. She is on the board of the Campaign to End the Death Penalty and the Applied Research Center, a U.S. racial justice think tank.
Link is to the temporary site.
Have to say I think this venture has the potential to be a platform for the practice of actual journalism. Which is not to say it will or should have the last/only word, but I hope what it does is raise the bar for media outlets everywhere.
I am getting very, very excited about this new journalism venture if that's the calibre of stuff we can expect. Parent
NYT Link
Did you read his letter? D@mn, but he is well-spoken. In addition to being brave. He is his own best advocate. I don't know how he does it, but he doesn't give back even an inch of whatever he ground he may have gained and still manages to stay measured and deliberate in tone. Parent
Not to say I have any problem with what Snowden did, just that his strength is not building a huge online system. Parent
My solution: Abolish hospitals and doctors because we should be seeking preventive vaccines, not just treating disease after it has manifested. We should not waste money on doctors and hospitals and should spend money instead on prevention.
Your diary was basically a drive by to throw chum at the crowd.
Your solution is no solution. Very disappointing.
Not feasible right now either. Couldn't get a public option out of the Democratic House without the Stupak Amendment. And, Boehner will allow this to be voted on? Parent
But to get to a Democratic Congress and Hillary as President, Obamacare cannot flop....
I have said here that a Democratic Congress could graft on a public option--and that only draws jeers here.....
You have three years until the first real opportunity to address this. In the meantime, trying to sink the ACA from the Left will be unhelpful. Parent
The whole grafting on a public option is really silly. Why create a whole new thing when you could just open up Medicare?
Overall, probably the ACA is not going to be a failure but it's also not going to be a massive success. The underlying problem of our healthcare system still exists. Parent
Given the reality of the Senate at the time, no amount of so-called "leadership" would have persuaded certain Senators against what they perceived to be their own interests. As you know, you might lead that horse to water, but you can't force them to do much else ... especially in the Senate. The atmosphere and the committee rules that allowed for the equation of "leadership" with "my way or the highway" has eroded for a number of years. In many ways, the consensual model of leadership reflects what has been happening bit-by-bit in society overall ... the move away from top-down as the standard or preferred form of management.
In any event, we are here now (as they say.) In that regard, MKS emphasizes an important point: If we kick the legs out from under the ACA at this point, the policy reality for a long time will be that generation(s) will see nothing/no improvement/nada for a long time to come ... because, given the history of the earlier attempts such as the Clinton initiative in 1993 and now the hard-fought coalition building to get as far as the ACA, it would be highly unlikely that anyone would go into a buzz saw for a long time. (As I've said before, I would strongly prefer a gradual expansion of Medicare for everyone ... after we establish the ACA and after people can adjust to that amount of change so as not to forfeit the gains that have been made.) Parent
Despite urging Democratic senators on Wednesday to forge ahead on health care reform, President Obama and his aides have been largely hands-off in guiding the legislative process, Senate aides tell the Huffington Post. And on Thursday a leading Senate progressive called out the White House publicly for abandoning the leadership role that is needed to get legislation passed.
Jim Webb: Health-care law represents a leadership failure for Obama
"If you were going to do something of this magnitude, you have to do it with some clarity, with a clear set of objectives from the White House," added Webb, who opted not to run for a second term this year. "...It should have been done with better direction from the White House." He faulted Obama for playing too passive a role in shaping the legislation. Taking a lesson from Bill Clinton's failed 1994 health-care overhaul effort--which was faulted for its micromanagement of the details of the bill--Obama opted to spell out a broad set of goals, and let Congress work out the details. What happened in the end, Webb said, "was five different congressional committees voted out their version of health-care reform, and so you had 7,000 pages of contradictory information. Everybody got confused. ... From that point forward, Obama's had a difficult time selling himself as a decisive leader."
He faulted Obama for playing too passive a role in shaping the legislation. Taking a lesson from Bill Clinton's failed 1994 health-care overhaul effort--which was faulted for its micromanagement of the details of the bill--Obama opted to spell out a broad set of goals, and let Congress work out the details.
What happened in the end, Webb said, "was five different congressional committees voted out their version of health-care reform, and so you had 7,000 pages of contradictory information. Everybody got confused. ... From that point forward, Obama's had a difficult time selling himself as a decisive leader."
Cheering quietly from the sidelines while waiting to be handed a bill is precisely how you end up with numerous alternatives and no consensus. Parent
But I have learned something here: It was not only Obama's fault that we didn't get the public option back then--and only his fault, exclusively; it will perpetually be his fault forever--and so leave Hillary alone and do not expect anything from her on healthcare. Parent
Yes, it would have been great if a word or command from the President would accomplish what we all wanted ... there are nations where leaders can do that :) And, most important, none of us knows to date what sidebar discussions, late night cajoling, classic attempts that always take place behind-the-scenes ... none of us really knows squat about that. We have our beliefs, of course. For me, I think that the Dem leaders had learned a lot about what was doable in 2009 in terms of America's longstanding inability to move off the dime in the area of health care--let's call it the "we want to, but we can't because it might hurt/be socialism/take our doctors away/cost too much/is un-American" syndrome that prevented any change in the past.
The judgment made about what was doable and the getting of it, imo, is evidence of the needed collaborative style of leadership. For many of us, it was important to stay ahead of the onslaught of destructive $$$ advertising that confronted the well-intended and strong attempt made by the Clintons in 1993. My Democratic friends were determined to learn from that loss (and the all-or-nothing situation that Sen. Edward Kennedy confronted years before as well, the situation that he later said he would compromise if he to do it again.)
Positions on what-could-have-happened are similar to angels-on-pinheads arguments today. Maybe, in future, we will learn the real story of who-said-what-to-whom in private, as well as what the real calculus was by the principal players. Without that, all we have are the numbers of Senators who publicly stated positions combined with the voting numbers and our own speculations. Parent
lead·er·ship [lee-der-ship] Show IPA noun 1. the position or function of a leader, a person who guides or directs a group
as in, not sitting on your hands cheering quietly from the sidelines while waiting for Congress to hand you something - anything - so you can call it a win. Parent
"Leadership" in some programs has entire courses dedicated to that subject in higher education curricula. Parent
Some people set the bar very low. Parent
Meh.
2) You are happy with moving the ball a few inches and calling that "incremental gains", despite Obama's opportunity for real gains and - in fact - his specific promises of same (drug reimportation, a public option, open hearings, no backroom deals with the drug lobby, etc.).
That's what cheerleaders do.
As far as "impugning each other's right and responsibility to disagree", who's doing that? Parent
Parent
So Senate Democrats on the Finance Committee offered an amendment that would enable the federal government to bargain for lower drug prices for their bulk purchasing, a direct assault on the White House/Big Pharma deal from a few months back. Basically it would shift poor seniors back onto Medicaid for their drug purchasing, where the government can negotiate discounts. This would save the government over $80 billion dollars. And Tom Carper of Delaware defended the secret deal in the most amazing of ways: I was not involved in negotiations with PhRMA but I believe that the administration was, obviously PhRMA was, and I presume this committee was involved in some way in those negotiations. And what PhRMA agreed to do through those negotiations is to pay about 80 billion dollars over 10 years to help fill up half the donut hole. That's my understanding. And they are prepared to go forward and to honor that commitment. As I understand it, the commitment from our colleague Senator Nelson would basically double what was negotiated with PhRMA. And whether you like PhRMA or not -- remember I talked earlier today in our opening statements, I talked about four core values, and one of those is the golden rule, treat other people the way I want to be treated? I'll tell you -- if someone negotiated a deal with me and I agreed to put up say, 80 dollars or 80 million dollars or 80 billion dollars and then you came back and said to me a couple of weeks later -- no no, I know you agreed to do 80 billion and I know you were willing to help support through an advertising campaign this particular -- not even this particular bill, just the idea of generic health care reform? No, we're going to double -- we're going to double what you agreed in those negotiations to do. That's not the way -- that's not what I consider treating people the way I'd want to be treated. That just doesn't seem right to me. link
And Tom Carper of Delaware defended the secret deal in the most amazing of ways:
I was not involved in negotiations with PhRMA but I believe that the administration was, obviously PhRMA was, and I presume this committee was involved in some way in those negotiations. And what PhRMA agreed to do through those negotiations is to pay about 80 billion dollars over 10 years to help fill up half the donut hole. That's my understanding. And they are prepared to go forward and to honor that commitment. As I understand it, the commitment from our colleague Senator Nelson would basically double what was negotiated with PhRMA. And whether you like PhRMA or not -- remember I talked earlier today in our opening statements, I talked about four core values, and one of those is the golden rule, treat other people the way I want to be treated? I'll tell you -- if someone negotiated a deal with me and I agreed to put up say, 80 dollars or 80 million dollars or 80 billion dollars and then you came back and said to me a couple of weeks later -- no no, I know you agreed to do 80 billion and I know you were willing to help support through an advertising campaign this particular -- not even this particular bill, just the idea of generic health care reform? No, we're going to double -- we're going to double what you agreed in those negotiations to do. That's not the way -- that's not what I consider treating people the way I'd want to be treated. That just doesn't seem right to me. link
And whether you like PhRMA or not -- remember I talked earlier today in our opening statements, I talked about four core values, and one of those is the golden rule, treat other people the way I want to be treated?
I'll tell you -- if someone negotiated a deal with me and I agreed to put up say, 80 dollars or 80 million dollars or 80 billion dollars and then you came back and said to me a couple of weeks later -- no no, I know you agreed to do 80 billion and I know you were willing to help support through an advertising campaign this particular -- not even this particular bill, just the idea of generic health care reform? No, we're going to double -- we're going to double what you agreed in those negotiations to do. That's not the way -- that's not what I consider treating people the way I'd want to be treated.
That just doesn't seem right to me. link
Seems a word or command from the President could easily accomplish what the industries wanted....us not so much. Parent
Moreover, as crappy as the ACA has been so far (both substantively and politically), I wouldn't expect much in the way of healthcare reform for a looooonnnnng time. Particularly no real changes, like single-payer or even a public option. Parent
The thing Hillary has going for her is that she was in the state department during all this and had nothing to do with it. Smart lady I would say. Parent
If it was unintentional, you need to work on reading comprehension. Parent
That's not the "big picture" ... that's a little, pre-schooler's fingerpainting. Parent
Hillary has a real shot--especially with good numbers in the Senate, as all those Republican Senators who were elected in 2010 from Blue states are up.
You continue to find fault at every turn....and as you point out current success of Obama would be helpful to Hillary.
You fight micro battles when other bigger issues are on the horizon. Parent
BTW - Has a "real shot" to do what? Are you trying to suggest that 2-3 years after Obamacare rolls out (or tries to roll out) she's supposed to go back and push real healthcare reform ala her 2008 platform (Medicare Plus - aka single-payer)?
Because that is seriously funny. Parent
If Obamacare does better than you assume, Hillary will have a number of favorable things going for her. The continuing changing demographics, the continuing transition of Republicans away from social conservatism into isolationist Libertarians, and the continuing collapse of the political power of religious fundamentalists, all auger well.
You apparently have not given this much thought. You all have been saying for years how much better Hillary is than Obama. Well, she is up. I hope you are right. First things first, she will have to beat a very confident and thinner Christie. Parent
Brings to mind the old saying about men always expecting women to clean up their messes ...
BTW - As far as her running in 2016, I have no idea who the Republican candidate will be - but if she decides to run she'll also have to overcome the negative coattails of a President who came in with near record approval ratings and has steadily declined to 41%.
Good luck to any Democratic candidate who has to do that. Parent
Just opening up Medicare is seen as the rational way to go--here. It was not a viable political option back then.
And, the idea that more leadership would have resulted in a public option is speculative. Just guessing. What we do know is that Pelosi could only pass a public option out of the House at the expense of the Stupak Amendment. Most here thought that was an unacceptably high price. So, given that piece of actual evidence, as opposed to speculation, it is hard to say that a public option was there for the taking.
I understand it is Gospel here that a public option was easy pie available....but there is not actual factual support for that. Parent
Again, with Stupak it was another cave and when the actual votes were counted there was enough for it to pass without the Stupak Amendment. From the beginning to the end there was a complete lack of leadership wasting over a year chasing Republican votes, begging them to go along and the continual moving of goal posts. It's really sad that it has taken Obama five or six years to figure out what the posters here at TL have known for years. So who really knows what we could have gotten if Obama wasn't so darn worried about what the GOP thought. Parent
If you do not build public support during a campaign for something like that, no LBJ style arm twisting will pull it off.
BTW LBJ arm twisted his own party.....and he had two powerful voices in support.....MLK and posthumous JFK. The Civil Rights legislation became easier when it was seen as a legacy of a martyred President. Parent
Was he perfect? No. But all the "left" (really, only some on the left) can remember is Vietnam. Parent
It was the topic of intense conversation, not only in the papers and on t.v., but also just day-to-day. People did not want to go to Vietnam....
You obviously weren't there or you would not say something like this.
Ah, you know, I just remembered why you say only some on the Left had issues with LBJ.....You are parroting someone else... Parent
Well, of course Obama didn't build support for anything in 2008. He didn't campaign on issues so that is part of his problem. I mean h*ll he's had to send Bill Clinton out to explain the ACA which is really pathetic that Obama can't even explain his own policy to voters. Parent
What Conrad said is a fact. Not speculation. Show me where someone else said there were the votes in the Senate for the public option.
Pelosi skinned that cat with two votes to spare. The public option was not the easy pie alternative many here say. And if the public option only passed the House with two votes to spare at the expense of the Stupak Amendment, and the Senate never passed it at all, why on earth would anyone think single payer was any more feasible? Parent
Conrad repeatedly said there were not the votes for the public option in the Senate. When a Democratic Senator tells you there were not the votes, I would pay attention. What Conrad said is a fact. Not speculation.
What Conrad said is a fact. Not speculation.
So a Senator who was actively opposing a public option and pushing his own alternative makes a public statement that there aren't enough votes to pass a public option, and you think that makes it a "fact"?!?
Now you're just trying to be funny. Parent
You do know what a non-profit is, right? Parent
You do know what a non-profit is, right?
Oh, and his count on how he didn't have the votes?
Dubious. Parent
That is the point. Parent
You keep spouting his comment as gospel, when in fact, his claims about not having the votes were dubious at best. Parent
And "whip counts?" Do you know what that means?....It does not mean articles written by reporters who are speculating...... Parent
I'm shocked. Parent
link Parent
People forget that there were a few Democrats who were not all that progressive.
They also forget what they wrote just a few minutes earlier. Parent
Your response is just laughable, contorted b.s. Parent
... as opposed to what you said previously:
BTW - Lieberman was "considered"? By whom? Are these the same "people" who think that "single-payer" means only a Canadian-style single-payer system with no option for private insurance? or should I say ...
... same person?
Without Lieberman or Conrad or Baucus you lose altitude very quickly....
The so called filibuster proof majority of 60 included Lieberman....because just counting tells you so.
You remind me of young lawyers who love to fall into the classic trap of trying to impeach a witness on a collateral matter....Doesn't work....
Try addressing the merits.... Parent
He wasn't.
More importantly, some actual leadership from the White House could have helped. Not to mention that they could have used the budget reconciliation process to pass it with less than 60 votes (as indicated even in your link). Finally, another option would be to stop making promises that your @$$ can't cash or - at the very least - deliver on the ones you can (no backroom deals, public hearings, drug importation, etc., etc.). Parent
Care to respond? This will probably be the only other post you do not respond to. Parent
Care to respond to this:
And Lieberman said (5.00 / 1) (#133) by Politalkix on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 11:56:58 AM EST that he would do anything in his power to stop the public option because he thought that it was the "camel's nose under the tent" to single payer....There you go...no need for some to post revisionist history...
People forget (none / 0) (#139) by MKS on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 12:03:28 PM EST that there were a few Democrats who were not all that progressive.
Was Lieberman a Democrat, or did he just vote with them sometimes? Parent
Sen. Lieberman is an independent member of the U.S. Senate and that is the reason he is not an unpledged delegate; because he is not a "Democratic member." Yes, Sen. Lieberman may caucus with Senate Democrats but [it's] not the same thing. Lieberman agreed to caucus with the Democrats after being bribed with the promise that he could keep chairmanship of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
Sen. Lieberman is an independent member of the U.S. Senate and that is the reason he is not an unpledged delegate; because he is not a "Democratic member." Yes, Sen. Lieberman may caucus with Senate Democrats but [it's] not the same thing.
In 2008 Lieberman addressed the Republican National Convention endorsing John McCain.
In 2012, he was invited to neither Convention.
Frankly, I'm truly shocked that any Obama supportor would hold up Lieberman as an example a Democratic Senator. He may be/may have been influential but not in a good way.
Who did Lieberman caucus with? (5.00 / 1) (#150) by MKS on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 01:14:56 PM MDT What an asinine argument....
What an asinine argument....
Some of your arguments are too tricky, too hairsplitting, too lacking in common sense....
Lose Conrad and you lose your 6o vote filibuster proof majority. Lose Lieberman and you now have at most 58 votes. And, I suppose Conrad is biased against the Public Option, and so you think that is the basis to toss out his comments about other Senators? If he were wrong, he could have been easily embarrassed, and I think politicians more than anything want to avoid that.
But even so, you do not have 60 strong for the Public Option, making it much harder. Parent
You claimed that Conrad's claim was a fact that deserved special weight because he was a Democratic Senator. His statement was an opinion - a self-serving argument made by someone wanting to kill any chance of a public option.
But since we're down to citing opinions as fact, you didn't need 60 votes to pass it. You needed actual leadership from the guy who promised that any legislation he signed must include a public option. Lacking that, you could also have done it with 50+ votes through the reconciliation process.
That was easy. Parent
Just sticking with your method of citing opinions as facts. Parent
The first objection is that Medicare as is does have financial problems in the future. Hillary did suggest in 2008 creating a donut hole of taxes..... Parent
Rome was not built in a day and neither will our health care policy! Parent
Obama made a deal with the Federation of American Hospitals, the lobbying group for America's for-profit investor-owned hospitals to kill the public option.
"Several hospital lobbyists involved in the White House deals said it was understood as a condition of their support that the final legislation would not include a government-run health plan paying-Medicare rates...or controlled by the secretary of health and human services. 'We have an agreement with the White House that I'm very confident will be seen all the way through conference', one of the industry lobbyists, Chip Kahn, director of the Federation of American Hospitals, told a Capitol Hill newsletter...Industry lobbyists say they are not worried [about a public option.] 'We trust the White House,' Mr. Kahn said."
Show me some evidence that it was possible. Parent
Conrad in the Senate said no way. Beyond that, Conrad actively opposed the public option. He apparently had a number of other Democratic Senators behind him. He certainly implied that.
And, yes, you are correct that Obama opposed mandates in 2008. So what? The point I am making is that public support for single payer was not sought in the 2008 campaign. If it is not part of a campaign, it is very hard to pass as legislation later. Parent
And it doesn't really matter. This bill from the beginning was screwed up, as Obama negotiated a bunch of stuff away that he never had to, and we are left with a steaming pile.
But you keep wanting to bring up 2008 and Hillary, etc. Who cares? The ONLY reason we are in this mess is because of one thing only - Obama did not want a public option, his financial backers did not want it, and his blind sheep followers thought that all would work out perfectly just because of his awesomeness, without paying attention to the details of what was really going on or allowing any questioning. Parent
All this armchair negotiation. My point is that you cannot just toss out "single payer" as a negotiating position because no one campaigned on it. Parent
That isn't what is happening though, at least not at this time.
Just being a pack of yahoos chanting Obama sucks together and celebrating every link that can be found that supports that Obama sucks will not accomplish much of real meaning or value to anyone but haters. Parent
Tell that to metastatic cancer patients whose only hope is to stem the spread, rather than cure the disease.
Tell that to people who carry genetic disorders. How do you get genetic disorders out of the population? Do you kill off people who have them?
Tell that to accident victims.
Tell that to people with corpo-fascist work related injuries.
I agree. Prevention is good, but prevention will not happen in your lifetime, and it certainly won't in mine.
We need doctors and hospitals. But we need to get the middle-man out of things, not interject more enforcement of inclusion of the middle-man.
And you haven't looked up your doctor network on your Exchange plan, because the good folks at Covered California are trying to stall out that access for as long as possible. When you do, please email me and let me know how you like it. Remember you'll be paying your hard-earned dollars for that lack of doctors. Parent
The best that could be done was Pelosi passing the Public Option out of the House by two votes at the cost of the Stupak Amendment.
Single payer was never feasible....But that decision was made long ago. All the I-told-you-so in the world won't make a difference.
What do you do now is the issue. Parent
Not even Hillary campaigned on Medicare for all or single payer....
Do you think repetition will eventually make it true? Both Hillary and Edwards had a single payer component as part of their healthcare reform plans - it was called Medicare plus. POLICY: Clinton and Edwards Open the Back Door
Quite simply, Clinton has opened the door to the single-payer model--if people want it. The beauty of her plan is that no one is forced into a government plan. Americans will wind up in a Medicare-like plan only if they choose it over a private insurer. Clinton is not alone. Last spring John Edwards unfurled a proposal that would force private insurers to compete with a public plan that he calls "Medicare-Plus." Today, in a web-cast sponsored by the Kaiser Family Foundation, he reiterated his goal "to give consumers a choice; they could gravitate in either direction." One journalist on the panel was blunt: "Is this a back-door to single payer?" Edwards liked the question. "That's partly right and partly wrong," he said, with a big smile. "It's not intended to take us to single-payer. It's designed to let Americans decide whether or not they want single payer."
Clinton is not alone. Last spring John Edwards unfurled a proposal that would force private insurers to compete with a public plan that he calls "Medicare-Plus." Today, in a web-cast sponsored by the Kaiser Family Foundation, he reiterated his goal "to give consumers a choice; they could gravitate in either direction."
One journalist on the panel was blunt: "Is this a back-door to single payer?"
Edwards liked the question. "That's partly right and partly wrong," he said, with a big smile. "It's not intended to take us to single-payer. It's designed to let Americans decide whether or not they want single payer."
Single payer for all, across the board, is as you know not the same as the public option.... Parent
Medicare is single-payer. Opening it up to everyone under 65 as an option - which is "Medicare-plus" (see my links) - is giving them a single-payer option.
Whatever issue you have dealing with basic facts is your problem. Parent
Single payer is understood to mean Canadian style single payer for all.
Single payer is not known as an option for single payer for some people. This is your construction shared by few people.
"It is understood"? By whom??? You?!?
Heh.
Hate to break it to you, but Canada is not the only single-payer system in the world. Moreover, Canada has private health insurance, too. Not to mention the fact that Medicare itself - which is a single-payer system - isn't mandatory for all people. People can choose not to enroll, if they want.
But your equivocating/contorting premise - that Medicare isn't a single-payer system if it's optional - is pretty amusing. Parent
No one would openly campaign on "single payer" in 2008 for fear of the socialized medicine tag....and having the anecdotes of long wait times for elective surgery in Canada thrown in their face.
How it is billed and advertised matters because it is how you build public support.
And, I have not said here that a Medicare option is not a single payer option. Actually reading my post matters. Parent
The candidates did not openly espouse "single payer." They talked about a "public option." You are talking about "single payer" in a very strained sense that the candidates did not use. That is the equivocation by you. Your changing of definition of the word as it was commonly used and understood back then to a new definition that you now use.
The candidates touted a public option. They did not accept the label of single payer. A stealth campaign for disguised single payer is not the same thing as an open campaign for single payer. Parent
What is the point of that?
What you're really saying is that we couldn't have a better plan because a president and a body of legislators in 2009 didn't have the same leadership ability that another president and body of legislators used to take us into two wars on much less evidence of a crisis.
The fact is, and poll after poll after poll demonstrates this - the people wanted single-payer, or at least the opportunity to participate in an existing single-payer plan. To be able to sign up for Medicare at 55 instead of 65, for example.
What happened? Obama told us to shut up. That he didn't want to discuss it. That it wasn't uniquely American enough for us.
Who fought for us, MKS? Does anyone fight for us?
Who are these people working for? Silly question. Banks, Wall Street, Insurance and Big Pharma, Gas/Oil, the military/intelligence juggernaut.
I have no idea what is gained by continuing to make excuses for these people, to make it sound like a good thing that they fold up like cheap lawn chairs as soon as they have to choose between fighting for us, and serving their corporate masters.
Reading your comments, I'm prompted to ask if you want us to sprinkle a little salt on the pretzel you've twisted yourself into, because you've yet to give one really good and credible reason why Democrats couldn't lead on this issue, even as you've given us a bazillion reasons why we're supposed to accept their mediocre and self-serving and underhanded efforts to further entrench the insurance industry in an already-dysfunctional and vampiric system. Parent
I am just countering the religious tenets here.....You guys construct these narratives that become established fact, and it ain't true.
Prove it....Obama said shut up? Was that before or after Pelosi did pass it out of the House? This is just something you made up to bolster your narrative......
I am not the one who is always looking back. You are, always, every single post--well maybe not every one. Show me ten of your post and let's say about seven all look back with this constant refrain on how awful past decisions were.... Always this constant complaining....Never a positive suggestion as to what to do going forward.
Want to look forward? Care to comment on my post saying that perhaps Hillary will campaign on lowering the eligibility age for Medicare? Parent
Or, you could write the Hillary groups trying to get an early "in" and argue for single payer.
Back in 2008 healthcare was one of my main voting issues and so I actually read Obama's entire healthcare proposal. It was a mishmash back then even. Parent
Come on by and buy me some drinks;) Steve's got all the Amphetamine you need!
The Times also is reporting that the suspect, himself a TSA agent, has been killed, and that three or four other TSA employees also were injured in the shooting."
LINK Parent
Once again, "getting it out first" is more important than "getting it right." Parent
A ticketed passenger, not a TSA agent, according to this. Parent
NBC News reporter Pete Williams identified the suspect in Friday's LAX shooting, 23-year-old Paul Anthony Ciancia, had "strong anti-government views" based on the literature that he was carrying with him.
LAX is an unpleasant experience anytime, from our experience. We've vowed to fly through some other city next time we head across the Pacific Ocean. Parent
The Miami Hurricanes undefeated at 7-0 ranked #7 in the country
vs
The Florida State Seminoles undefeated at 7-0 ranked #3 in the country
FSU -21
The college boys have their reputations on the line; the LV odds makers have millions of dollars on theirs.
Follow the money. Parent
By getting it as close as possible to encourage gamblers to wager an equal amount of money on each team, they make it easier for the house to collect the vig without doing much work.
Thus, a well made betting line splits the "smart money" right down the middle. Parent
they determine the line internally, using their different data bases,
Then,
they adjust it based on historical betting preferences,
they adjust it further by how the early money is betting,
And, finally,
they sell, or, buy disproportionate betting money (to other books) to try and get the final action as close to 50/50 as they can.
So, you are correct in that the final "line" that's posted does not represent the odds maker's opinion as to the result of the game, but, rather the number they believe will split the betting action down the middle. Parent
I have run across a couple of guys who get complimentary suites etc., from the big Casinos....They had a big score once and are hooked forever.
Knew a lawyer at my old firm who left under big mystery cloud. Always knew the odds on everything....Heard later rumors he played with client money to make up for big loss....One day his office was locked and the internal goons from the home office were running around. I really liked the guy... Parent
Good to know; it explains a lot. Parent