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Bill Bratton to Serve Again as NY Police Commissioner

By Jeralyn, Section Crime Policy
Posted on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:38:08 AM EST
Tags: Bill Bratton (all tags)
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New York City Mayor-elect Bill de Blasio announced that William Bratton will again serve as police commissioner.

He replaces Raymond Kelly, who served since 2002.

Good move by de Blasio. Bill is a strong believer in constitutional rights. I attended his swearing-in ceremony in Los Angeles in 2002 -- here's my report.

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    Bill Bratton to Serve Again as NY Police Commissioner | 21 comments (21 topical)

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    Best police chief LA has ever had, IMO (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:03:58 AM EST
    And I am just old enough to have lived during the infamous William H. Parker days. And Darryl Gates, jaysus, he, I believe, might have been the "best" modern incarnation of Parker. Had Parker's type of corruption been accessible to Gates, I have no doubt he'd have bitten that hook hard.

    I am really encouraged for New York City, civil liberties-wise.

    Thank for this, put a little smile on my face. And after my latest unpleasant run-in with the police, that's saying something.

    Peace, J.

    Although from the LAPD's bio of Parker... (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:12:38 AM EST
    ...you'd think he was the second coming of Zeus. (link)

    And Gates, well, I'll let this bio speak, er spew, for itself. (link)

    Parent

    Much preferred to... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:10:36 AM EST
    Ray Kelly, that's for damn sure.

    A Jeralyn endorsement goes a long way with me, I feel even better about the hire.

    Can't say I'm a fan of the "broken windows" style...it drags alotta people through the system over nonsense, and I'm not sold any benefits outweigh the costs, both human and monetary.  But if it's done with more respect for individual rights than we've seen under Kelly, we can certainly live with that.

    Hope he chills out with the "ring of steel" candid camera sh*t too.

    On the effectiveness of (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by KeysDan on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:49:12 PM EST
    the "broken glass" theory of policing:  a re-visiting of criminologists Kelling and Wilson idea that minor disorders, such as vandalism, act as gateways to more serious crimes is considered by University of Chicago Professor Harcourt and Georgetown University Professor Ludwig, who conclude that criminologists know little about the effectiveness of the theory, and observe that the policy targets minorities.  

    Parent
    I feel that you are a part of (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 06:51:35 PM EST
    a large community, me among them, that prefers to live in a vandalism-free neighborhood.  However, the issue at hand is  evidence of the effectiveness of this policing strategy and evaluation of claims for its reducing serious felonies, such as murder and rape.   It does seem plausible that a campaign to eradicate graffiti on bus stops and eliminate turn-style jumping, that deploys significant police resources,  is likely to  result in arrests for such low crimes and misdemeanors.

    But, police resources are not unlimited and it is important to use such resources effectively, based on demonstrable outcomes.  The "broken window" idea may require a diversion of resources from serious crimes, arrests and convictions.

    Moreover, evaluations may prove that other policing tactics and strategies are more effective, to guard against those who break windows as well as those who break other laws. Community policing, for example, enlists support of the community in the fight against crime and provides for respect and dignity.  After all, all communities are affected by crime.

    Parent

    You write (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 12:04:52 AM EST
    The "broken window" idea may require a diversion of resources from serious crimes, arrests and convictions.

    I think the results should speak for themselves and in New York it appears that serious crimes have been reduced.

    Parent

    Rooster - sun (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by Yman on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 06:22:32 AM EST
    Doesn't establish cause-and-effect.

    Even though I spent "two years in law enforcement" (safety patrol in elementary school) and I'd need some studies/research before drawing those conclusions.

    Parent

    Yes, this was the missed point (none / 0) (#18)
    by KeysDan on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 08:09:53 AM EST
    of the commenter.  Causation v correlation.  The study cited, which , at least, needs to be read to consider,  speaks to the need for evaluation.  Particularly, what other factors were going on ( e.g., crime rates fell in other cities that did not use the strategy.)  Such studies are important to determine if "broken window" is a good policing strategy or a political fear tactic. becoming part of the lore---stop that squeegee man before he kills.

    Parent
    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 10:48:30 AM EST
     Such studies are important to determine if "broken window" is a good policing strategy or a political fear tactic.

    Isn't that the answer?? Fear put into the perp that bad things will happen to s/he??

    Parent

    Not an answer (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 06:05:01 PM EST
    The issue is whether prosecution of minor crimes ("broken windows") is effective and caused a drop in the crime rate, or whether the drop (which occurred everywhere) was due to other factors - the drop in unemployment, an increase in felony arrest rates, hiring of more police officers, or other factors.  Or, it it just an ineffective use of resources.

    Just because the rooster crows, it doesn't mean he's making the sun rise.  Mistaking correlation for causality is a common logical fallacy.

    Parent

    LOL... (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 08:53:53 AM EST
    Serious crimes have been reduced...you slay me old friend!

    Have you already forgotten the greatest financial capers in a millenium that came to a head in 2007?

    Parent

    Demographics (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 10:47:16 AM EST
    NYC fascist policies had zero to do with crime reduction in NYC.
    Crime all over the US dropped at about the same rate. Crime reflects demographic waves, not policy.

    Parent
    zero? (none / 0) (#21)
    by NYShooter on Sat Dec 07, 2013 at 12:51:30 AM EST
    Unless, of course, you make a distinction between NYC policies, and NYC fascist policies.

    In any event, hyperbole rarely convinces.

    Parent

    But the article also says (none / 0) (#17)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 07:52:12 AM EST
    (which I know will not be popular around here):

    "Years ago, we thought it was a myth that cops prevented crime," Zimring said. In theory, criminals could just commit crimes in corners of the city where cops didn't patrol.

    "But crime is a heck of a lot more situational than we thought," Zimring explained. If a criminal wants to rob somebody on 125th and Lexington but sees a cop there, he'll probably just throw in the towel for the night, Zimring says.

    When former Mayor David Dinkins came into office, he proposed a $1.8 billion plan to "fight fear" in New York and hired 8,000 new officers, the LA Times reported at the time. He also hired an effective new police commissioner, Lee Brown, who supported "community policing," the practice of having cops patrol neighborhoods and get to know people to help solve problems -- instead of just answering 911 calls. Crime's hold on the city really started to falter while Dinkins still sat in City Hall from 1990 to 1993. Data from NYC.gov shows the murder rate in New York City peaked in 1990 and dropped 30% by 1994.

    To be fair, Giuliani also hired 3,660 new officers once he came into office, On The Issues found.

    "The growth in police is a two-mayor phenomenon, and it really was extraordinary," Zimring told BI.



    Parent
    Obviously be skeptical until results occur (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:21:24 AM EST
    But the guy really did seem different to me. Not exactly the kind of cop who'd have a gun on me in my own garage cuz my crazy neighbor said the door was open all week. You know, the sorta normal kind. ;-)

    Parent
    that shoulda been "normal" (none / 0) (#6)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:22:28 AM EST
    quotes intended for sarcastic effect regarding garage cop.

    Parent
    You know me Bro... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:28:20 AM EST
    when it comes to the people in blue, it's a low bar, just give me lesser evil.

    Parent
    Surveillance (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 12:53:43 PM EST
    Hope he chills out with the "ring of steel" candid camera sh*t too.

    that horse left the stable long ago and is only going to increase and be more efficient, imo.  Too many parties find the data of individual behaviors far too valuable for the surveillance to do anything but increase in its scope.

    Parent

    I hear ya Squeak... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:08:45 PM EST
    the best we can hope for is a slight delay of the inevitable...everybody on candid surveillance camera 24/7/365.

    Parent
    The funny part is... (none / 0) (#10)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 01:25:28 PM EST
    ...they seem not to be able to recognize a genuinely valuable piece of information or do anything until it's too late to do anything but react to something they're supposed to prevent. Like Pirandello meets Christopher Durang, except with, you know, reality.

    Parent
    I believe I remember your Bratton/LA report. (none / 0) (#5)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 11:21:34 AM EST
    I guess you've removed the comments of the old threads to save bandwidth?

    Anyway, I hope he does good.

    Bill Bratton to Serve Again as NY Police Commissioner | 21 comments (21 topical)

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