home

Thursday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:18:04 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

Open thread time, all topics welcome.

< John Brennan's Confirmation Hearing | East Coast Braces for Blizzard >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Thursday Open Thread | 101 comments (101 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    Penny Pritzker for Commerce? (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by shoephone on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:47:42 PM EST
    RUFKM??

    Her qualifications to lead the Commerce Dept are...

    1. She's the Hyatt Hotels billionairess
    2. She is one of Obama's closest pals from Chicago
    3. She was one of Obama's biggest fundraisers

    What a laughing stock.

    And (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by CoralGables on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 07:53:50 PM EST
    1. She has a BA from Harvard.
    2. An MBA and a JD from Stanford.
    3. She's on the Board of Trustees at Stanford.
    4. She's on the Board of Trustees at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts.
    5. She's on the Board of Directors for the Council on Foreign Relations.
    6. Founder, Chairman, and CEO of PSP Capital Partners and Pritzker Realty Group.


    Parent
    Oh, golly, she's got degrees and everything! (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by shoephone on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 11:00:27 PM EST
    And she serves on boards!

    Shall we compare her resume with that of Gary Locke, Obama's first Commerce Seretary, former governor of Washington State, chief executive of the most trade dependent state in the nation?

    And once again...the woman has no real qualifications for the position of Commerce Secretary. The nomination -- if it is one -- is a political favor to a wealthy pal, with connections to the other fat cat$.

    Parent

    More degrees than a thermometer. (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 01:24:42 AM EST
    She doesn't have to work, she can just live off her potential.

    Parent
    lol (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 07:34:11 AM EST
    You're hot tonight!

    Parent
    I added in (none / 0) (#45)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 07:55:56 AM EST
    a small number of her accomplishemts which I'm sure you would have done had you not run out of space during your rant.

    Parent
    Oh, actually, I did forget to add (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 11:15:05 AM EST
    that, according to the news at the time, she refused to fill out the paperwork divulging all the millions of dollars she and her family were hiding from the IRS in offshore accounts. Shades of Romney...

    Parent
    With all due respect, I really ... (none / 0) (#90)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 02:17:53 PM EST
    ... really don't recall Gary Locke as being any great shakes as governor of Washington. I do remember him attempting to lay off a lot of state employees and cut social service funding for the developmentally disabled, two proposals which didn't exactly endear him to the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

    Other than that, the only thing memorable to me about Locke's tenure in Olympia was the nasty personal insults and and openly racist vitriole heaped upon him and his family by the GOP right, following his nationally televised rebuttal to President George W. Bush's 2003 State of the Union message. That both stood out and surprised me at the time, and told me that it was now anything goes in GOP politics.

    Parent

    I wasn't always a fan of Locke either (none / 0) (#95)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 04:25:20 PM EST
    but he did preside while getting WA out of 2002 recession deficit. My biggest beef with him was the way he bent over backwards for Boeing after they'd already screwed us by relocating the HQ to Chicago. That being said, he had lots of experience overseeing the economy of the #1 trade dependent state in the nation. And our trade deficit at the national level has greatly decreased.

    Do you think this 1-percenter with friends in high places Pritzker is more qualified than Locke was? With her history overseeing a bank that royally f*cked up on subprime loans? With her refusal to come clean about her offshore accounts? Please, Donald, make your case for Pritzker. Because the nomination is nothing but political patronage of the most obvious kind, and I think she will be a disaster if confirmed.

    Parent

    Pritzker withdrew her name from (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by caseyOR on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 01:36:21 AM EST
    consideration in 2008 for the same Cabinet post because her past business dealings and her family's adversarial relationship with the IRS would have made for very messy confirmation hearings.

    Penny Pritzker is like a poster child for so much that has gone wrong with the country. Failed bank , money hidden in offshore bank accounts, trouble with the IRS, she has it all.  She is one of three cousins who manage the family's holdings. Not always very well.

    Her family owned, and she helped run, Superior Bank in Chicago. The bank bundled sub-prime mortgages into securities and sold them. The bank failed.

    A 2002 report by the inspector general of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation concluded that "the failure of Superior Bank was directly attributable to bank management and the board of directors ignoring sound risk management principles and failing to adequately oversee Superior operations."

    None of that baggage has disappeared or changed. And the bank problems are just a part of her dubious resume.So, I do not understand why her name is being floated now.

    Parent

    Soung it out... (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Dadler on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:36:32 AM EST
    ...Pay. Tron. Age.

    Parent
    #6 should be... (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:09:07 AM EST
    an automatic disqualification for the post...last thing we need is another anti-worker hedgefund grifter crony getting into "public service".

    Penny "Pincher" Pritzker and "Grim Reaper" Brennan...Term Duex off to a banging start on the appointment front, Mitt Romney could have appointed these winners.


    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#70)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:41:31 AM EST
    she also donated $15,800 to Hillary so I don't think she would be on Romney's radar.

    Parent
    Hence the "could have".. (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:54:59 AM EST
    if Penny was buttering the other side of the stale moldy bread we call the two party system, Romney would have given her a job to protect the interests of Hyatt Hotels, PSP Capital Partners LLC, and Pritzker Realty Group just the same as Brand D will.

    Parent
    Catholic bishops reject newest Obama (5.00 / 7) (#43)
    by caseyOR on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 03:43:14 AM EST
    cave on contraception. Obama's newest offer concerning contraception and the paying for such by one's health insurance was dismissed by the Catholic bishops.

    It is not enough for the bishops that the administration is tying itself into knots to make sure that not a whiff of Catholic institution money gets anywhere a female employee's birth control pills. No, now they want every employer, every single employer, to be able to claim a conscience objection to providing female employees with contraception coverage through employee health insurance plans.

    Obama was a fool to try to negotiate with the bishops in the first place. The original plan was based on the Hawaii plan that Donald has touted. The bishops got all in snit about that. So, Obama offered a further compromise. The bishops rejected that and decided to go to court. Obama gave even more ground last week. And the bishops have rejected that.

    It is time for Obama to tell the bishops to just put a sock in it. They will not be happy until getting contraception is as hard for women as getting an abortion now is. No good comes of trying to reason with these jerks.

    So, once again I must ask, why does anyone pay any attention to anything that the Catholic bishops and their minions say about anything? The Catholic Church has been exposed as a massive criminal enterprise. If there was any decency left in the Church the bishops would be ashamed to show their faces in public, much less make demands.

    Enough is enough.

    President Obama should just yel (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:01:13 AM EST
    "Roger Mahoney" and exit.

    Parent
    Agreed. The Catholic Bishops (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:57:37 AM EST
    should remain silent on all moral and ethical issues for at least 100 years.  In the meanwhile, their utterances should be restricted to the theological question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

    Parent
    Why? (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by lentinel on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:11:57 AM EST
    So, once again I must ask, why does anyone pay any attention to anything that the Catholic bishops and their minions say about anything?

    The answer that comes floating up for me is, "follow the money".

    A question I have is, doesn't the Catholic Church think that God could figure a way around a condom if he/she/it thought it would a good idea for the woman to get pregnant? Some divinely inspired pinhole would be enough.

    Or is the problem for the Church that with birth control, people are experiencing pure pleasure - and pleasure is the problem. The devil's territory.

    I really love Jesus.
    I have been very influenced by what he is reported to have said and done with his life.
    But I am not a Christian. I can't imagine what J.C. would think about the gigantic edifice and bureaucracy has been created in his name. I think he'd flip out.

    Parent

    The Catholic Bishops can K M Ass (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 01:37:57 PM EST
    but since I am not a 10 year old boy they probably won't want to.  
    Why is Obama catering to these jokers?  Why do they have anything to say about birth control?  They employ women and women take birth control...none of their damn business.  If they get to decide, should all employers get to decide what they find morally objectionable?  If I object to so many kids being drugged out on Ritalin shouldn't I be able to refuse to cover it? Or how about this: I think the world is over populated therefor TeresaInPa Inc will not cover any kind of Fertility treatment or Maternity coverage.

    Either the RCC has some hold over Obama or someone with an anti woman agenda has his ear.

    Parent

    In the fourth grade (none / 0) (#88)
    by fishcamp on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 01:58:52 PM EST
    I asked a nun "Who is God"?  She bopped me on the head with a ruler so I threw up on her habit.  I got sent home for the 4th time and finally mom transferred me to the Portland Public school system with all my buddies.  My sisters were mad at me because they wanted to become nuns and thought I should become a priest.  What power the church had on young people.

    Parent
    My ex husband (none / 0) (#91)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 02:18:21 PM EST
    got sent to the local posh college prep catholic HS. He hated it and to get out he had to hit a priest in the back of the head with a flying eraser, raid the chess club meeting with bottles of squeezable grape jelly and finally he dumped an aquarium out of the third floor window on the heads of everyone leaving school at the end of the day.  
    He went to public school and was perfectly happy. He so did not belong in a snotty private school.

    So good for you throwing up on the Nun.  She should have just answered your question.

    Parent

    Hey! He's lucky the Nun didn't ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 03:02:11 PM EST
    TeresainPA: "So good for you throwing up on the Nun. She should have just answered your question."

    ... send him to see THE PRINCIPAL.

    Parent

    True truth Donald... (none / 0) (#97)
    by fishcamp on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 04:49:12 PM EST
    that priest principal had a big paddle.  I had already been to see him on other occasions.  They didn't like that I was left handed.  They just didn't like me nor I them.

    Parent
    Have you seen Mea Maxima Culpa (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:18:26 AM EST
    yet on HBO? LINK  First airing was last weekend.  I had it set to record but wanted to see it so badly that I watched it in real time.  The deaf men in it have been so courageous, heartbreaking at times, triumphant at times, and just remarkable at times.  They have spent their entire lives at work exposing the abuse.  It took them forever to even get their abuser removed from the deaf school he oversaw.  It is estimated that he molested around 200 boys, and the church knew he was doing it since the early 70's.  Not a day has gone by for them in their lives that what they survived hasn't walked beside them. The Catholic Church up to now has been a fortress to take on, but that is crumbling in the first world.  In the documentary though they say that in developing countries like Latin America and Africa, the realization that being a priest is a great vehicle for criminal predators is still unimaginable for worshippers.  

    Parent
    Try to imagine.... (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Dadler on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:42:32 AM EST
    ...how long this has been a problem in the hierarchy of the Church. My guess is that for centuries, a millennium, a very long time, the church was THE place to flee into when you had this defect. This is literally a thousand-plus year issue, IMO. It is, it would seem, part of Catholicism's historical DNA. And is proving VERY hard to excise with the current leadership having been a huge part of the problem. It will take a few more generations, if not longer, to genuinely get rid of it.

    Parent
    I can't remember how far back (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:32:31 AM EST
    The first recorded evidence goes Dadler that they speak of in the documentary. I have it recorded to watch again because the first viewing is pretty emotional, it makes it hard to track all the facts they have interspersed in it.  I think they said the first evidence of priest child predation they could find was from the 1500s.

    There is a priest who appears in it and is a psychologist who has worked with many of the predatory priests, and he speaks about the making of a human being (priest) into a diety on earth being a heresy that can actually lead many priests into developing even deeper psychological deformity.  They can't experience themselves as capable of being a predator, they can't even experience themselves as being capable of wrong.  They are blessed and anything they do or touch can only lead to blessings and experiencing God.

    Parent

    There are a couple of really (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:37:38 AM EST
    decent priests highlighted in the documentary.  They have been struggling to address the problem from within.  Canon law impedes them unless they can find a hole in the law, they found one with Murphy.

    Oddly, the church has chosen to tolerate some of these intolerant priests.  They don't get promoted.  They will never be a Bishop or a Cardinal at this point, maybe in the future though.  Only priests that coverup or work to aid the church in drawing the focus away from the problem get promoted.  Some of them dramatically leaping over the lower ranks if they are in the right place at the right time and a sex crime needs some PR work.

    Parent

    I will definitely have to check out... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Dadler on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 11:36:26 AM EST
    ...this doc.

    Parent
    There's no pleasing the unpleasant. (none / 0) (#92)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 02:41:22 PM EST
    Obama made a good faith effort to accommodate religious-based objections, unlike the men in the gold robes and ruby slippers. He should get up and walk away from the table, impose the last best offer per his executive authority, and tell them to just shut up and deal with it like adults.

    The U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops is really no longer reflective of the Catholic rank-and-file's views on social issues nowadays, and many of its members suffer from both a very serious lack of credibility and a false sense of political infallibity.

    In my opinion as a Roman Catholic, it's nothing that a few well-placed indictments of key senior Church officials for felony obstruction of justice wouldn't cure. I don't think these old men truly realize how frustrated and increasingly angry many parishioners are becoming with their bishops' high-handed behavior. I'm wondering if the statute of limitations has run out on Cardinal Mahoney and Bishop Curry, given what we're only now learning about the true extent of their role in covering up the abuse scandal in L.A.

    Parent

    And in case you were thinking that (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:20:39 AM EST
    -phew!- we dodged the bullet on cuts to the safety net, time to - what else? - think again.

       President Barack Obama said he wants to reach a "big deal" on the budget that will cut the nation's deficit without slashing spending on education and research that is needed to ensure future growth.

        Obama said negotiations with congressional Republicans over avoiding the $1.2 trillion in automatic, across-the-board spending reductions set to begin March 1 shouldn't push aside the effort for a broader plan to cut government debt.

        "I am prepared, eager and anxious to do a big deal, a big package that ends this governance by crisis," Obama said at the annual House Democratic retreat at Lansdowne Resort in Virginia, about 35 miles (56 kilometers) northwest of Washington.

    Anyone besides me who's shivering a little at how "eager and anxious" Obama is to do a "big" package?

    I think maybe Paul Krugman is tired of explaining the insanity of major spending cuts in a fragile economy; what do you think?

       Start with a basic point: Slashing government spending destroys jobs and causes the economy to shrink.

        This really isn't a debatable proposition at this point. The contractionary effects of fiscal austerity have been demonstrated by study after study and overwhelmingly confirmed by recent experience -- for example, by the severe and continuing slump in Ireland, which was for a while touted as a shining example of responsible policy, or by the way the Cameron government's turn to austerity derailed recovery in Britain...

        But aren't we facing a fiscal crisis? No, not at all. The federal government can borrow more cheaply than at almost any point in history, and medium-term forecasts, like the 10-year projections released Tuesday by the Congressional Budget Office, are distinctly not alarming. Yes, there's a long-term fiscal problem, but it's not urgent that we resolve that long-term problem right now. The alleged fiscal crisis exists only in the minds of Beltway insiders.

    I'm more than confident that the president is intellectually capable of grasping these basic truths, so why, I wonder, is he so fixated on going in this direction?  I mean, it's bordering on obsession at this point, and I don't mean that in a good way.  Does he think this will be some sort of crowning achievement?  Is he that enamored of the BSD-banksters and Wall Streeters?

    Oh, and by the way...in case you want to pre-order a copy, Tim Geithner is writing a book!

    Oh, what a wonderful Friday it is...

    I'm sure that his Wall St. buddies (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by MO Blue on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:36:45 AM EST
    will buy cases of Geithner's book as a legal way to repay him for his efforts on their behalf. Then of course there are the speaker fees.

    The cuts to Social Security and Medicare should be renamed as "The Senior Citizen Buy a Drone Program" since now they are necessary to prevent cuts to the defense budget. If the selfish seniors do not agree to live on cat food, the world and the nation will be overrun by terrorists.

    Parent

    Even the dumbest Democrat (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 12:31:36 PM EST
    should have been able to figure Obama out by several things he did when first taking office.  He hired Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of staff, he hired Geithner and he hired Larry Summers. Then there was that whole enhancing NCLB.....

    Emanuel was demoted in the Clinton white house and Bill Clinton said he regretted taking the advice of Summers.  There were things Clinton did I did not like, but he had the sense to know when he made a mistake or something had not worked out as planned and he could admit it.
    What was Obama thinking and how in heavens name could anyone think he was going to bring new people and ideas to DC after he hired that crew?

    I am not shivering, I am expecting him to do exactly as he is doing. He campaigned on generational warfare..getting the baby boomers off the backs of the poor genXers and millennials.  I expect him to do it.

    Parent

    Another school bullying tragedy (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Dadler on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:38:46 AM EST
    I am SO tired of this sh*t. It is the year 2013 for sh*t's sake, and a kid still can't be safe at school.  When my dad left me and my mom when I was 4, I became a bully's wet dream. As such, and as a man who was a kid bullied and beaten and left feeling very alone for a lot of my childhood, these jerks are the supreme reflection of their parents' ineptitude, and of society's blithe disregard for the horrors of violence inflicted on the young by the young. Bullies are not born, they are created. (link)

    sorry Dadler (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 02:07:02 PM EST
    as someone involved in Education I know how hard it can be to get a bullying problem solved.  I hope that you learned empathy from the experience as I did.  It is not so much that I was bullied as that I saw it and it bothered me.  I got ganged up on by other girls sometimes out of jealousy, stupid stuff and it hurt.  But what bothered me more was seeing how groups of kids would pick on some child who was slow or had dirty clothes or was overweight.  That would just depress me to no end.

    Parent
    And after my trip down memory lane... (none / 0) (#80)
    by Dadler on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 11:34:34 AM EST
    ...with my dad's acting credits, these other memories are more than a tad ironic and conflicting. Life is such a trip!

    Parent
    Who knew (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 11:02:14 AM EST
    The TSA had any sensible traveler friendly policies...well they did, we'll see what happens with some undercover bedwetter producer at KPIX
    5 CBS San Francisco trying to ruin it for everybody.

    I really don't think the police should be armed. (none / 0) (#1)
    by redwolf on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 03:11:38 PM EST
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html

    Giving someone a gun and almost blanket immunity in using it is a recipe for disaster.

    Do you understand the events that ... (none / 0) (#2)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:12:35 PM EST
    ... have transpired in Southern California over the last 96 hours or so?

    Yes, it's regrettable what happened to those two women, and thank heavens that they're going to be okay. But in the meantime, you're taking completely out of context a single element from in the overall story, having literally pulled one individual post from an ongoing L.A. Times blog thread that's presently covering a tragedy happening in real time.

    Parent

    Context being... (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by redwolf on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:29:09 PM EST
    scared police can shoot up people delivering news papers like it's a war zone?  When was martial law declared, I must have missed it.  

    Parent
    Given your obvious propensity ... (1.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:33:51 PM EST
    ... toward political hyperbole, I can see that discussing such matters with you is going to be the equivalent of Clint Eastwood's argument with an empty chair. Have a nice day.

    Parent
    But what in the world... (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by unitron on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:51:21 PM EST
    ...would have convinced the police that not only they had the right vehicle and needed to shoot it up, but that there was no possibility that the second person in the truck was an innocent hostage and that it was okay to just shoot everybody?

    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#11)
    by lentinel on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:38:10 PM EST
    they have been influenced by our drone policy.

    Parent
    People who are scared and ... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:39:46 PM EST
    ... perhaps even verging on panic are much more prone to commit serious errors of judgment. That's not to excuse what happened in Torrance this morning, to but simply state a basic fact of human nature.

    Sometimes, I think we sometimes forget that despite their advance training, police officers are still mere mortals just as we are, and they can be motivated by personal fears just as we can be.

    These officers were obviously jumpy to the point of distraction, knowing that there was a guy out there who was armed and targeting police officers, and they had no idea where Christopher Dorner was at the moment when they first came across a vehicle remarkably similar to the one Dorner was driving at the time. As a result, they jumped to the wrong conclusions, and outright tragedy was narrowly averted only by chance.

    The incident will be investigated, and those officers involved will probably be written up and reprimanded, and their chance for promotion to leadership was probably quashed the moment they fired their weapons. They'll be lucky if they're not separated from the force altogether.

    Parent

    Whereas the citizenry... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by unitron on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:52:24 PM EST
    ...might well be luckier if they are separated from the force altogether.

    They probably did better than I ever would have on my best day, but that's a pitifully low standard.

    Parent

    I'm going to reserve judgment. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 09:39:54 PM EST
    I really don't know what happened, and we've only heard one side thus far. It will be interesting to hear the women's account of this morning's events. Regardless, given the fact that the women were wounded and hospitalized, it's readily apparent that the police clearly rushed to judgment in collective fashion, and it could've been an absolute disaster.

    Parent
    I live with an ex cop (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:15:25 AM EST
    I am positive after listening to his stories for 4 years that he is NOT a model of good cop behavior. Even he would have done better than these guys.
     IMO, these cops have no excuse for that sort of jumpy behavior.  Because they are being targeted it no reason for everyone in southern CA to have to fear being shot by out of control scared police officers.  It is part of their job to be able to function in extreme stress.  Otherwise they should go hustle burgers or clean motel rooms.

    Parent
    And, yet (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by NYShooter on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 05:11:56 PM EST
    The NRA wants us to believe that arming school teachers, doctors, priests, and bar-flies will make us all safer.


    Parent
    So the penalty for attempted murder is.... (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by redwolf on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 12:11:26 PM EST
    "those officers involved will probably be written up and reprimanded, and their chance for promotion to leadership was probably quashed the moment they fired their weapons. They'll be lucky if they're not separated from the force altogether. "

    Wow, and you're fine with that?  Anyone else would be in jail right now.  So you're fine with laws not apply cops in the same manner they apply regular people? I guess I should just strike EQUALITY under the law off the list values this nation supports.

    Lets just be honest then.  Write the laws this way: Attempted murder is a crime punishable by 1-10 years in jail unless you're a police officer in which case it's a misdemeanor. Negligent discharge is a crime punishable by 1-5 years in jail unless you're a cop where it's not a crime at all.


    Parent

    Donald, this whole thing (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by Zorba on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:52:37 PM EST
    is horrible, and I do think that it is hyperbolic to suggest that we disarm the police.  
    I also realize that this is someone who is dangerous, out of control, and needs to be stopped.
    But shooting at vehicles that the police "believe" may be involved (and they did shoot at a second vehicle, although nobody was injured) because the vehicles were "similar" is another tragedy waiting to happen.
    I sure as he!! don't know the answer, but I sincerely hope and pray that none of us, or our loved ones, happen to be driving vehicles that are similar to that driven by a homicidal lunatic such as this.

    Parent
    Crazy stuff. (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:47:50 PM EST
    Less than a half-hour later, cops fired on another vehicle in Torrance, just two blocks away from the first scene, NBCLosAngeles.com reported. No one was injured in that vehicle, which was similar to Dorner's truck, police said.


    Parent
    LAPD . . . . (none / 0) (#13)
    by nycstray on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:52:57 PM EST
    gotta love 'em! /s

    Parent
    I didn't defend the police. (none / 0) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:13:04 PM EST
    Even LAPD Chief Bretton has said that the officers involved in the shooting were wrong.

    I simply said that redwolf was taking a single post completely out of context from an ongoing coverage of this awful event, which he clearly did. Further, he then misrepresented it as somehow emblematic of a police department that's run amock, staffed by social misfits and malcontents who love nothing better than to shoot up a neighborhood, if only you'd give them a gun and a badge.

    Look, I'm no big fan of police departments in general, and from an historical perspective, LAPD has been one of the worst in terms of corruption, racism, etc.

    But I also recognize that they have a necessary job to do, and quite honestly, we do our own credibility no favors when we troll for stories such as these, and then use them as an excuse to merrily indulge our own biases against authority figues and bash them without distinction, and without making any real attempt to understand how such an incident as the one in Torrance this morning came to happen.

    Most police officers are good and diligent people who are out there on the streets every day, doing an often unpleasant and sometimes very dangerous job that most of us would not want to do ourselves. The Riverside PD officer who was ambushed and killed early this morning was an 11-year veteran, who was merely awaiting a traffic signal's change when he was allegedly shot in his squad car by the suspect.

    Such men and women don't deserve to be collectively lumped together with the bad apples amongst them, and then simply indicted as a group for corruption, fraud and abuse of power.

    Parent

    Did I say in any (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Zorba on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:38:51 PM EST
    way, shape, or form, that you were defending the police?  No, I did not, and quite frankly, I resent the fact that you are saying so.
    I do agree that most police officers do not deserve to be lumped together with the bad apples, the corrupt, and so on.
    However, while redwolf was going over-the-top with his comment, there is certainly a horrible history regarding the LAPD, as you noted yourself.
    We all sometimes tend to over-react ourselves, Donald.  Including you, my friend.

    Parent
    I know you didn't say that. (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 07:09:57 PM EST
    My comment was meant for redwolf and others who probably think I was doing so. I'm sorry that you were offended because I failed to make myself more clear.

    What happened in Torrance was probably due to a premature rush to judgment on the officers' part, but that said, I would simply prefer that we all reserve our own judgments until all the facts are in.

    From what's been learned so far, these two women -- who were doing nothing more than delivering newspapers -- were unknowingly heading directly toward an LAPD security detail that had been dispatched to Torrance to protect someone who was mentioned as a potential target in Christopher Dorner's rambling manifesto. The officers on duty there were already aware that three officers had been shot so far that morning, one fatally.

    Further, not only were the women in an SUV very similar to Dorner's, they were driving slowly down the street toward that security detail in the early morning hours with their lights off, which makes perfect sense given that they don't want to wake people up unnecessarily at that hour. That's not to excuse the officers' actions, though. As Chief Bretton acknowledges, they were wrong.

    As we speak, the authorities are still looking for the suspect, albeit 75 miles away from Torrance, in a house-to-house search up in the busy resort community of Big Bear (El: 6,300 ft.) in the San Bernadino Mountains. This is actually pretty rugged terrain.

    Parent

    I will be very interested to hear the (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:15:44 PM EST
    women's description of what happened. If you see pics of the pickup they were driving, it is riddled with bullet holes. If these women are like the paper deliverers in my neighborhood, it is very likely they may not have been able to easily understand orders/commands given to them by the officers in English. This is really bad.

    Parent
    Not to mention... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by unitron on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 09:03:49 PM EST
    ...they probably had more than one person screaming commands at them, which only makes it harder to tell what they're saying.

    Parent
    Correction: The LAPD Chief is now ... (none / 0) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 07:26:54 PM EST
     Charlie Beck and not William Bratton, who retired from LAPD last year and now works up north for the City of Oakland as a consultant on law enforcement issues. My bad.

    Parent
    Gees, had not heard anything about that (none / 0) (#4)
    by ruffian on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:23:21 PM EST
    My nephew goes to CSUF.

    Parent
    Monica Quan was stalked and killed ... (none / 0) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:47:25 PM EST
    ... by this maniac, allegedly and solely for the purpose of avenging a perceived wrong by her father, an attorney who had once represented the suspect four years ago in an administrative disciplinary hearing that eventually resulted in the suspect's dismissal from LAPD. She and her fiance were truly innocent parties in this depraved individual's twisted affairs, and her family and her team are now both heartbroken.

    Parent
    please put urls in html format (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:17:39 PM EST
    long ones skew the site. Use the link button at the top of the comment box or at least get a short url. Thanks!

    Parent
    yeah, we are not going to disarm (none / 0) (#72)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:50:18 AM EST
    the police in California.  Not even worth thinking about.
    There is no excuse for the witless behavior of these cops and they should be let go.  But unarmed cops in LA?  Nah

    Parent
    South Korean Air Force parody of Les Mis. (none / 0) (#10)
    by caseyOR on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:05:05 PM EST
    One of my favorite things about the movie Les Miserables has got to be the wealth of parodies it has inspired.

    This one, by an air wing of the South Korean Air Force, is pretty amazing. This group of service members spent a goodly part of the winter shoveling snow off of a runway. To bolster morale the commanders produced this 13 minute parody. Fear not, while sung in Korean, it has English sub-titles.

    This particular military unit is blessed with a number of good singing voices. The premise of the story, an airman loses his girlfriend because all his time goes to shoveling the snow, is more interesting than one might think.

    Watch and listen. A word of caution: it is 13 minutes long, but worth it.

    Chris Kyle's killer was a stoner, and paranoid. (none / 0) (#14)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:54:20 PM EST
    Police recovered a bong, a glass pipe, miscellaneous drug paraphernalia, 9 mmm ammunition and a cellphone from the Lancaster home of the man accused of killing decorated Navy SEAL sniper Chris Kyle and his friend, Chad Littlefield.[...]

    Kyle and Littlefield were shot at point-blank range Saturday afternoon at a Glen Rose gun range. According to authorities, Routh took Kyle's pickup truck and drove to his sister's house in Midlothian where he admitted shooting the two men because "he couldn't trust them so he killed them before they could kill him."
    No wonder, then. (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Peter G on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:56:27 PM EST
    Another case of Reefer Madness.

    Parent
    lol, that was good. (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:03:40 PM EST


    Parent
    My thoughts exactly. (none / 0) (#16)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:57:32 PM EST


    Parent
    WOOSH (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jtaylorr on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:47:39 PM EST


    Parent
    Oh for cripes sake. (none / 0) (#38)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 12:54:15 AM EST
    Do you think I chose to write the words "stoned" and "paranoid" and quoted the paragraphs regarding those two words by accident? I'm sorry it was too subtle for you. WHOOSH indeed.

    Parent
    Good Thing They Didn't Find Any Guns... (none / 0) (#96)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 04:39:44 PM EST


    Parent
    Bongs and glass pipes can be used ... (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:22:41 PM EST
    ... for other substances besides pot, i.e., crystal meth, crack, angel dust, etc.

    I realize that I'm speaking anectdotally, but it's been my experience over the last couple of decades that people who smoke marijuana tend not to get amped and tweaked to the point of violence and mayhem. I'd offer that if the person who did this to Chris Kyle was high on something, then he was probably hyped up on much harder stuff, such as one of the synthetics noted above.

    Parent

    PTSD man... (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:16:17 AM EST
    I think war f*cked him up more than any drug ever could...any drinking and/or drugging issues probably stem from the PTSD.

    Parent
    Who could doubt that? (none / 0) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 11:02:04 AM EST
    All the drugs, self medicating.  We see it all over the military right now.  Soldiers who are out have the illegal drugs.  If you want to stay in though you are going to have to keep your medicators legal and they are clamping down on the drugs they were handing out and giving soldiers waivers for.  The waivers are going away, and it is a logical way to do the downsize.  You need drugs...you can't serve.

    This means, the Class Six is doing rip roaring business because we all need some sedatives right now.  No names, but it is stressful for the spouses too.  I just met a General's wife running around with a glass of whiskey all hours.  She was like trying to give it away to the rest of us too because crap...you can't be the lone spouse running around with tinkling ice all day by yourself, people might talk.  I bet she buys a case and starts giving it out at baby showers (joke..maybe).  If we are all phucked up nobody can talk.  Feels like in ways we might be socially revisiting the Vietnam winding down era.  I can't even drink whiskey, and I thought I was practiced.  I'm going to have to practice more to keep up.  But my nose will get all swollen and red and pulsing, I'm just screwed.

    Parent

    "Yankee soldier... (none / 0) (#76)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 11:08:16 AM EST
    He wanna shoot some skag
    He met it in Afghanistan
    But now he can't afford a bag

    Parent
    Sounds like maybe Chris Kyle (none / 0) (#84)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 01:13:03 PM EST
    was a bit of a junkie himself. His drug of choice being the act of putting holes in people from afar.

    How many "kills" did he supposedly have?

    Parent

    150 kills... (none / 0) (#87)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 01:48:57 PM EST
    repeated ad nauseum...the Iraqis called him Shaitan Ar-Ramadi, aka The Devil of Ramadi.

    But I guess we better tread carefully, lest we end up in hot water with Ron Paul.

    Parent

    PTSD (none / 0) (#85)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 01:26:03 PM EST
    and, more than likely, some antidepressent cocktail (which may cause homocidal thoughts, or an erection lasting 36 hours..)

    Parent
    Thanks for the tip-pah. (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 01:10:07 AM EST
    As Andy Dick said in a News Radio episode when another character importantly informed him of something that was already clearly obvious.

    I thought it would be clear, when you thought two seconds about it, since I deliberately chose to put the words stoner and paranoid together with, um, actually deciding to kill people, that I was cracking wise in kind of gallows humor way. But, I guess not. No worries, it's my fault. I wasn't clear enough.

    Parent

    "Cracking." Good one. (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 08:59:24 AM EST


    Parent
    yes mostly (none / 0) (#58)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:04:41 AM EST
    but pot does have that effect on a few people.  I know someone who smokes it so that she has an anxiety attack and cleans the house.  Someone else who gets paranoid and agitated to the point of being unbearable to be around.  It's not typical, but it is possible.  
    Oh yeah, and some one who is okay when he's stoned but a paranoid miserable asshole when he's coming down.

    Parent
    Send your (none / 0) (#63)
    by Zorba on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:16:33 AM EST
    anxious friend over here when she's high.  My house could use a good cleaning.  I'll even make her a pan of brownies.
    But yes, I've known one or two people who got more than a bit agitated when they were high, but as you suggested, it's definitely not typical.

    Parent
    Will oculus be stranded in NYC by the (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:17:04 PM EST
    possible enormous snowfall?

    Would you like to be? (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by nycstray on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 07:14:36 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes. But not at JFK. (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:03:17 PM EST


    Parent
    Where are you trying to get to? (none / 0) (#30)
    by Peter G on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:38:10 PM EST
    My look at the weekend forecast shows light snow predicted for NYC.  Heavy only in New England.

    Parent
    S. CA. Direct flight from (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 11:09:49 PM EST
    JFK.

    Parent
    NY Area Airports (none / 0) (#46)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 08:01:25 AM EST
    expected to close early this afternoon for what may be up to twenty hours. Over twelve inches of snow expected in the NY area in 12 hours.

    Should disrupt flights everywhere with over 2700 flights already cancelled nationwide.

    Parent

    I think we're dodging the bullet here (none / 0) (#47)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 08:40:55 AM EST
    in MD - we may get a couple inches of snow, and there may be some sleet and freezing rain in the mix, but it won't be three feet of snow...although freezing rain is not without its problems.

    So far, just rain...

    Parent

    Two feet expected in Boston (none / 0) (#50)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:06:23 AM EST
    and 40-50mph winds, with the onslaught getting started at 2 this afternoon. It's not going to be an enjoyable evening in Beantown.

    Freezing rain is probably handled better in Maryland than it was when I was in Atlanta. Either way, South Florida with it's 80 degree high (although a bit warm) is looking really nice today.

    Parent

    Did you exit (none / 0) (#55)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:54:28 AM EST
    for the left coast? Or parked on the right coast?

    Parent
    Flight is sched. To depart JFK Sat. @ 5:45 pm (none / 0) (#57)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:58:31 AM EST
    Maybe I'd better buy a flashlight.

    Parent
    I think you'll know when (none / 0) (#68)
    by nycstray on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:38:20 AM EST
    you wake up in the AM :)

    Parent
    Yep. American Airlines (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 11:08:45 AM EST
    cancelled today's flight. But tomorrow's is still sched. for departure as initially booked. Ha.

    Parent
    AA eh? (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 11:33:18 AM EST
    My sympathies...worst of the bunch.

    If ya do get stranded, may I suggest New Orleans own Kermit Ruffins & The Barbeque Swingers tomorrow night at Le Poisson Rouge.  But count me out I'm afraid...begun the Jazzfest self-imposed hermitude savings plan has;)


    Parent

    LPR is a wonderful venue. (none / 0) (#98)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 05:11:23 PM EST
    I've gone there twice.

    Parent
    Atten: SJ, re Hightower Lowdown (none / 0) (#35)
    by DFLer on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 10:20:14 PM EST
    comments filled up before I could reply in previous thread to suggest you go for the print subscription....lots of good stuff in sidebars...in addition to main essay

    DFLer, could you please put up the link (none / 0) (#40)
    by caseyOR on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 01:15:46 AM EST
    to Hightower again. For some reason, totally on me, I cannot find the one you put up earlier.

    Thanks.

    Parent

    Here you go (none / 0) (#71)
    by DFLer on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:48:38 AM EST
    Here's a link to the Post Office article

    Here's a link to the Lowdown homepage

    Parent

    Thanks. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by caseyOR on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 04:11:26 PM EST


    Parent
    violence against women act (none / 0) (#54)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:49:08 AM EST
    http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/cantor_vawa/?rc=fb_share1&r_by=-1370732-9dM9WIx

    I don't know if petitions do any good.  Take a minute to sign anyway, it can't hurt.  Even better, if you have a white male republican congresscritter as I do, send him a message that you expect him to vote for the bill.

    they have the votes in the Senate (none / 0) (#102)
    by desmoinesdem on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:35:24 PM EST
    to pass the Democratic bill, but last year the House approved its own version, leading to stalemate.


    Parent
    SITE VIOLATOR! (none / 0) (#101)
    by caseyOR on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:00:10 PM EST


    Thursday Open Thread | 101 comments (101 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment