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Wednesday Open Thread

Obviously, I'm mostly following the George Zimmerman trial this week, which along with work, leaves little time for anything else.

I'll be offline most of the day. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Haven't been following this (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 07:16:50 AM EST
    It is possible that redemption is not just for Republicans.

    Weiner, Frontrunner

    The numbers are ...

    Weiner 25%
    Quinn 20%
    Thompson 13%
    de Blasio 10%
    Liu 8%

    The poll also shows that Weiner has made substantial progress moving the numbers among those New Yorkers who would consider voting for him in the general. Two months ago only 40% said they'd consider voting for him in the general. Now that number is 49%. On the flip side, the `no way, dude' number has fallen from 52% to 45%. Those numbers are likely more favorable that they suggest because the GOP is hardly fielding any serious candidates this year.



    Dadler satire resurrected (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:12:07 AM EST
    It was only a matter of time... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:28:44 AM EST
    till he rose to the top of the polls in the mayoral clown show.

    Can't say I'm a big fan of Chuckie Schumer's former protoge, but he sure beats Bloombucks.

    Parent

    What are your thoughts about Quinn's (none / 0) (#13)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:44:23 AM EST
    collapsing numbers? Do you agree with Marshall's accessment?

    But just as big if not a bigger story is Quinn's collapse. I believe she's fallen in support in basically every successive poll since the race started getting regularly sounded earlier this year. Quinn had worked with Bloomberg in countless ways (I know, she's my member of the City Council) to engineer her own succession to the mayoralty. But it all seems to have come apart in the face of widespread outbreak of what might be termed voters not liking her and being turned off by her efforts to get the gig with backroom deals.


    Parent
    This is one poll ... (none / 0) (#20)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:11:56 AM EST
    and Weiner's lead is just a tiny bit outside the margin of error.

    But, regardless, Quinn had a lot of negative messaging thrown at her.  That didn't help.

    Still, Weiner far from has this in the bag. Over 70% would prefer someone else.

    Parent

    My take... (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:36:50 AM EST
    she was the frontrunner mainly because the field was so weak.

    I think she is largely viewed as Bloomberg's lackey on the City Council, and after 12 years New Yorker's are sick of Bloomberg.  Also, I don't think voters appreciate her assistance in helping Bloomberg get a third term, ignoring the will of the people who voted for term limits.

    Parent

    Last night in Austin (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 07:53:15 AM EST
    An attempt at a 13 hour filibuster.
    Hardball by the GOP.
    Robert's Rules of Order.
    Dem's 2 hour four corner offense.
    A 13 minute gallery filibuster shutting down the vote.
    A vote on abortion bill SB5 after midnight (illegal).
    GOP change in the official time of the vote (considered a felony).
    GOP backtracking after social media shows alteration in public record.
    Bill currently dead.
    Victory for new Texas Dem star Wendy Davis.

    It was awesome (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:17:12 AM EST
    Probably a short-lived victory, as the governor can call the legislature back into another special session, and since the Republicans control the legislature, they will change the procedures so the Democrats can't run out the clock again.

    But way to go Wendy Davis and your awesome pink tennis shoes!

    Parent

    I've absolutely no doubt that they can. (none / 0) (#84)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:41:47 PM EST
    And given their hubris, they probably will. That's why the term "Pyrrhic Victory" was coined. A few more such "triumphs" will ruin their name brand with a lot of people for the foreseeable future.

    Just my observation here, but generally from a socio-economic standpoint, minority rule by unenlightened and / or angry white males tends to retard the scene. And at this juncture in time, that scene has become reduced to an ultimately vainglorious effort to re-assert white male dominance and authority, which merely serves to postpone the inevitable.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#85)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:48:33 PM EST
    I'd say, ... (none / 0) (#112)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 04:15:13 PM EST
    ... good luck with that. I'm certainly not going to hold my breath waiting for the result of that effort with this Congress.

    Parent
    And sure enough, ... (none / 0) (#151)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:43:15 PM EST
    ... Gen. Santa Anna once again orders his troops to engage in a frontal assault on the Alamo.

    Parent
    Man oh man (5.00 / 6) (#74)
    by lilburro on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:46:49 PM EST
    haven't checked in in a while.  Hope everyone is well.  My life is consumed with work.  Better than not having a job, though.

    However, not why I checked in...I was at the Capitol last night and it was amazing.  If not for our screaming and the screaming of the people who had been sitting there for 11 hours in the gallery, they would've been able to bring it to a vote.  Lots of young people there which was inspiring, too.

    Wendy Davis is a hero, but the Texas Dems developed a really smart strategy to support her and it was a group effort.

    I was within feet of Cecile Richards when she read Wendy Davis' text announcing the Lt Gov acknowledged the bill as dead, at 2:30 am.  

    Lots of enraging things going on everyday but sometimes we get a win.  God it was so awesome.

    Make Texas Weird!

    Parent

    Perry will call another special session and the (none / 0) (#11)
    by Angel on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:27:43 AM EST
    bill will pass, so this is only a short-term victory, unfortunately.

    Wendy Davis for Governor!

    Parent

    She and Julian Castro (none / 0) (#47)
    by MKS on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:56:07 AM EST
    are kind of stuck.   No room for advancement.

    Parent
    I kept refreshing the newstories (none / 0) (#40)
    by MKS on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28:58 AM EST
    As I went to bed last night, the Republicans had take the vote, after midnight according to the reporters present....

    Missed the backdating and then backtracking....

    Good deal....  

    Parent

    Did you see the photo of the African-American (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:50:14 PM EST
    woman speaking from the floor.  She hung a wire coat hanger on the mic.  Powerful.  

    Parent
    I thought wire hangers disappeared (none / 0) (#70)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:36:16 PM EST
    with manual up and down lock buttons on car doors.

    Parent
    Mine was a serious comment. (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:44:54 PM EST
    I saw her wave it once (none / 0) (#121)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 05:01:53 PM EST
    never noticed her hang it. It was great political theater last night.

    In fact, the last 24 hours have been a liberal's all you can eat dessert buffet.

    Parent

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 48 (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:03:35 AM EST
    DOMA (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:03:39 AM EST
    5-4 per Kennedy, Roberts dissents, Scalia and Thomas dissent.

    Unconstitutional.


    From SCOTUSblog (none / 0) (#18)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:04:39 AM EST
    The opinion and its holding are confined to those lawful marriages.


    Parent
    From Roberts dissent in DOMA case (none / 0) (#21)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:14:19 AM EST
    p. 4 talking about Prop 8: "We hold today that we lack jurisdiction to consider it in the particular context of Hollingsworth v. Perry"

    looks like they are going to dismiss Perry on standing grounds

    Parent

    But I could be wrong (none / 0) (#22)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:20:01 AM EST
    The language of the majority opinion is quite broad, so anything is possible.

    Parent
    A wedding in the Robert's family (none / 0) (#138)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 07:57:42 PM EST
    John Roberts' Openly Gay Cousin Will Now Be Getting Married

    When the Supreme Court heard the oral arguments for and against the constitutionality of DOMA this March, Chief Justice John Roberts probably noticed a familiar face in the crowd -- his openly gay cousin, Jean Podrasky.
    ...
    "I am so excited. I am absolutely overwhelmed," Podrasky told me in a phone interview Wednesday.

    "I can now get married. I feel like my partner and I have been in limbo for several years. We've been engaged for a couple years, but now we can start planning."



    Parent
    DOMA (none / 0) (#50)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:59:10 AM EST

    The court hands another victory to the ultra-rich Koch brothers.

    Parent
    Give me back my bong. (none / 0) (#109)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:55:00 PM EST
    You've obviously had enough.

    Parent
    In all seriousness, can I ask you why you (none / 0) (#120)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 04:35:48 PM EST
    reference "your bong" so often?

    Parent
    The question is... (none / 0) (#142)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:18:31 PM EST
    who doesn't?

    Parent
    Because guys like Abdul are ... (none / 0) (#145)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:48:07 PM EST
    ... always bogarting it, and it's not fair to everyone else if they don't pass it around.

    Parent
    But seriously, I no longer partake ... (none / 0) (#146)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:10:02 PM EST
    ... in the herb -- or anything else smokeable, for that matter -- because I've developed some pulmonary issues, and smoking only aggravates them greatly. I actually quit smoking cigarettes in 1998, and everything else in 2004.

    But I swear, there are times when I feel as though one perhaps needs to break the bong out if only to understand someone's else point -- that is, provided there even is one. In Abdul's case, given his bizarre post, I fear he's locked himself in his bedroom with the bong for the duration.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Vap it (none / 0) (#147)
    by chaking on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:16:22 PM EST
    You know there are vaporizers out there... They aren't as bad as smoke... just sayin...

    Parent
    No desire to inhale anything any more. (none / 0) (#149)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:29:28 PM EST
    I wheeze enough as it is.

    Parent
    It's been a long time for me too, Donald. (none / 0) (#160)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:21:48 AM EST
    Bu seriously, I don't remember breaking out the bong ever helping me understand anything, except how deeply and violently I could cough.  One pass at four feet of plexiglass could nearly kill a young fool.

    Parent
    John le Carre (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:25:58 AM EST
    re Snowden et al.:

    The Guardian

    Amazing piece by le Carre (none / 0) (#53)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:06:18 PM EST
    Thanks for linking it.

    Parent
    California man... (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:48:50 AM EST
    is being prosecuted for 13 counts of vandalism for protesting Bank of America by writing on the sidewalk in chalk.  I sh&t you not.  Each count carries a possible 1k fine and/or one year cage time.  

    The uber-outrageous part is the judge hearing the case ruled the defense cannot even mention the supreme law of the land, Amendment 1 of the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution.  

    Why do I think if little kids were drawing hopscotch on the sidewalk in chalk there would be no prosecution?  

    F*ck Bank of Un-American and their co-conspirators in the three branches of the federal and state governments.

    This is why I cannot ... (none / 0) (#46)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:55:15 AM EST
    be overly enthusiastic about today's Supreme Court decisions.

    Some narrow positive decisions (one rife with the potential for very bad unintended consequences) doesn't hide the fact our basic rights are being trampled upon left, right and center these days.

    Parent

    Ha. Permanent chalk or something? (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:14:26 PM EST
    The article doesn't make clear (none / 0) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:21:35 PM EST
    whether the graffiti is on a public sidewalk or a BOA owned sidewalk. I'm pretty comfortable that if it's a public sidewalk he'll do far better in the long run than if it's BOA owned.

    Parent
    Good old fashioned... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:49:27 PM EST
    water soluble according to the article...but I guess BofA can't stand the truth even until the next time it rains.

    And it must be beneath them to do an honest 10 minutes work hosing it down...sick the law on the poor bastard!

    Parent

    San Diego City sidewalks. (none / 0) (#61)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:50:12 PM EST
    the City is prosecuting the case on behalf of itself, ie, that Olson vandalized City property.  

    It does not surprise me that the 1A does not give anyone the right to vandalize other's property.


    California Penal Code Section 594

    594.  (a) Every person who maliciously commits any of the following
    acts with respect to any real or personal property not his or her
    own, in cases other than those specified by state law, is guilty of
    vandalism:
       (1) Defaces with graffiti or other inscribed material.
       (2) Damages.
       (3) Destroys.
       Whenever a person violates this subdivision with respect to real property, vehicles, signs, fixtures, furnishings, or property belonging to any public entity, as defined by Section 811.2 of the Government Code, or the federal government, it shall be a permissive inference that the person neither owned the property nor had the permission of the owner to deface, damage, or destroy the property.
    [...]
       (2) (A) If the amount of defacement, damage, or destruction is less than four hundred dollars ($400), vandalism is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

    imo, Olson is a big stupid head, but I do not think he should be imprisoned or pay $13K in fines. Maybe spend a few weekends cleaning graffiti off City property or something.

    Parent
    Didn't kids write all over... (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:26:44 PM EST
    the street and sidewalk aka public property with chalk where you grew up in NJ?  If totally non-permanent chalk writing is vandalism, I'm an astronaut.

    Don't go all jbindc "the law is the law" on me Sarc! ;)  San Diego persecutors office is either acting on the say so from BofA or they should close up shop for having absolutely no sense of priorities, or not knowing the definition of "prosecutorial discretion".

    Parent

    Would that they went after slumlords (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:20:02 PM EST
    the way they go after people who "deface public property".

    They've made arrests here of graffiti artists who've done more creative work than I've seen the the city do in decades, yet they still let absentee slumlords maintain properties I wouldn't let my dog live in..

    Because one faction has grease to spread around and group of well-paid, hired-mouths working for them and the other doesn't..

    And I bet the situation isn't much different in San Diego.

    Parent

    Water soluble chalk was a good move (none / 0) (#69)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:29:34 PM EST
    the bad move is his parents probably never sang Albert Hammond to him as a baby.

    Parent
    I think they sang ... (none / 0) (#150)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:34:32 PM EST
    ... Morris Albert to him instead.
    ;-D

    Parent
    I think Olson's a big stupid head (none / 0) (#71)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:39:07 PM EST
    because he's a 40 y/o grown adult who thought it was ok for him to write graffiti on city property. I'm also more than a little surprised that his attorney thought the 1A made it ok for his client to do that. Yes, like I said, SD should exercise some discretion.

    Parent
    Fair enough... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:02:31 PM EST
    I love the guy and think he speaks for many, including me...and better to write water soluble chalk "graffiti" than handing out leaflets, which is totally legal, that end up litter to spread his message.  He's an enviromentally concious protester.

    Parent
    I obviously didn't click the link. (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:54:17 PM EST
    Mortifying this is San Diego City Attorney's Office decision to prosecute.

    Parent
    Indeed. (none / 0) (#66)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:02:20 PM EST
    fwiw, I googled around to get info: here's the search.

    Parent
    Call out to Dadler: the SD Reader broke (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:47:34 PM EST
    this story.  SD Reader

    Parent
    Josh says he's leaving (none / 0) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:09:14 PM EST
    Going to Canada.

    Parent
    Oculus... (none / 0) (#107)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:54:39 PM EST
    any contacts in that office you can call and try to talk (or slap) some sense into?  

    As a personal favor?  All the Guiness you want on me next visit if you could make that magic happen;)

    Parent

    Our new mayor is on it: (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 04:18:25 PM EST
    request to place on city council docket

    I do know the judge, who has already barred defense counsel (pro bono) from advancing a First Amend. defense, citing settled case law; judge is correct.)

    Parent

    We gotta put... (none / 0) (#141)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:11:20 PM EST
    this system on trial one of these days;)

    Parent
    City Property (none / 0) (#65)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:01:44 PM EST
    I suspect you are right and in the end the "big stupid head" will get some community service provided he's smart enough to know when to fold em.

    Parent
    The bright side: They didn't charge (none / 0) (#161)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:23:04 AM EST
    him with Terrorism.

    Parent
    Here's the Real Gem (none / 0) (#86)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:50:38 PM EST
    The investigation for the `heinous' crimes was handled by the SDPD Gang Unit at the specific request of Darrell Freeman, acting as Bank of America's corporate security officer. During a confrontation between Olson and Freeman outside the BofA North Park facility, the security officer was overheard by a Reader reporter threatening "with one phone call' to get the protesters' account at local credit union closed.

    LINK

    Darell Freeman is the Vice President of Bank of America's Global Corporate Security.

    Parent

    At least.. (none / 0) (#92)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:02:10 PM EST
    it's not just the NYPD and Manhattan DA's office that act like a private security force for the big banks and Wall St...things are tough all over.

    Gang Unit...lol.  There's a gang problem allright, and it ain't the Bloods & Crips. It's BofA, Citi, Chase, & Sachs.  Holder's Gang Unit must be at the donut shop for an extended coffee break or something.

    Parent

    Nelson Mandela On Life Support (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:57:21 PM EST
    President Nelson Mandela is on life support, a South African official told CNN Wednesday.

    Mandela has been in critical condition for four days in a hospital in Pretoria, South Africa. President Barack Obama is currently en route to to the continent and his trip will take him to Senegal, South Africa and Tanzania.

    The White House has not said whether the First Family plans to visit Mandela. link




    The why on HK kicking back the extradition papers (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by scribe on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 05:35:24 PM EST
    It turns out the US Department of Justice, the World's Largest Law Firm (TM), in preparing the extradition papers couldn't get Snowden's middle name right and couldn't get his passport number right.

    So they presented Hong Kong with the screwed-up papers wrong name and number and all and, as happens to any other litigant doing that, got their papers rejected.

    I can't laugh any harder and that's still not hard enough.
     

    Oy. (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:10:06 PM EST
    From our "Raspberries in Season" file: (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:20:33 PM EST
    Is there anyone in journalism today who's more eloquent when scratching someone's eyes out rhetorically than Frank Rich?

    In New York magazine today, Rich gouges David Gregory's sockets with a stiletto for questioning Glenn Greenwald's journalistic credentials, and for suggesting on the air that Greenwald should be arrested for aiding and abetting Edward Snowden:

    "Is David Gregory a journalist? As a thought experiment, name one piece of news he has broken, one beat he's covered with distinction, and any memorable interviews he's conducted that were not with John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Dick Durbin, or Chuck Schumer."

    Rich further suggests that the incoming new leadership at NBC News avail themselves of the opportunity to elevate the conversation at Meet the Press, by transferring Gregory full-time to The Today Show, "where he can speak truth to power by grilling Paula Deen."

    Ouch. And touché.

    Just remember, Gregory epitomizes today's DC (none / 0) (#135)
    by scribe on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 07:05:19 PM EST
    When he talks about criminality, he inevitably brings to mind his own sitting there on the tube  wagging a high-capacity magazine, totally flouting DC's strict-liability ban on such implements.  And not being charged.

    No one can convince me his non-charge had nothing to do with the District Attorney being his next-door neighbor and bud, and with being a useful tool for Obama.  The minute Obama gave him an interview a week or so later, any chance of charges against Gregory evaporated instantly.

    "But he meant well", or "he was exercising the First Amendment", or whatever excuse gets trotted out.  If he was an ordinary pleb and did that, he'd be off to prison.

    But he's the apotheosis of DC journalism.

    Parent

    Won't get any argument from me there. (none / 0) (#148)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:26:49 PM EST
    The term "DC journalism" has become an oxymoron. And given NBC News' sad sack review of Gregory, Chuck Todd and "Li'l Luke" Russert, small wonder that Mrs. Alan Greenspan is hailed as the network's resident doyenne inside the Beltway.

    Parent
    Remember when Meet The Press... (none / 0) (#152)
    by unitron on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:13:44 PM EST
    ...consisted of a single guest who got grilled by guest journalists from newspapers and such, and NBC supplied the moderator, and then there might have been a short "journalists talking to each other" segment at the end, but the show was not "Get Softballed by the Star Moderator, after which we'll have a lot of talking heads"?

    Parent
    That must've been before my time. (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 03:58:03 AM EST
    Even when I worked on Capitol Hill in the '90s, MTP was often derided as "Meet the Press Release."

    While Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein may have exposed the corrupt nature of the Nixon presidency, one consequence of that once-in-a-lifetime professional coup may have also redefined modern journalism.  The heroes of "All the President's Men" inspired a torrent of mediocrity to swamp the field of play, of which David Gregory is naturally part.

    Generally, the Sunday gasbag shows have become a dizzying, Beltway-centric parade of the pompous, the petulant, the profane and the publicity-starved. Politics in particular on MTP has been reduced to a vicarious form of public entertainment, as first Tim Russert and now Gregory adopted a less issue-focused and more personality-oriented emphasis. I rarely waste my time watching them any more.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Ecuador offer foreign aid to US (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 09:38:36 AM EST
    Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, promised Wednesday that he would block renewal trade pacts should Snowden be granted asylum. Ecuador's President Correa has called the threats "blackmail" and has offered The US $23 million per year to finance human rights training.

    (Reuters) - Ecuador's leftist government thumbed its nose at Washington on Thursday by renouncing U.S. trade benefits and offering to pay for human rights training in America in response to pressure over asylum for former intelligence contractor Edward Snowden.

    The angry response threatens a showdown between the two nations over Snowden, and may burnish President Rafael Correa's credentials to be the continent's principal challenger of U.S. power after the death of Venezuelan socialist leader Hugo Chavez.

    "Ecuador will not accept pressures or threats from anyone, and it does not traffic in its values or allow them to be subjugated to mercantile interests," government spokesman Fernando Alvarado said at a news conference.

    In a cheeky jab at the U.S. spying program that Snowden unveiled through leaks to the media, the South American nation offered $23 million per year to finance human rights training.

    more...



    Nice bluff by Ecuador (none / 0) (#156)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 09:50:57 AM EST
    They won't do it, of course, since more than 50% of their exports come to the US.

    Correa is talking out of his a$$.

    Parent

    And They Are on the US Dollar... (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:31:13 AM EST
    ...so what is your point ?

    Since prior to his election, President Rafael Correa has stated that he would not renew the agreement that allowed the United States access to the base when it expires in November 2009, and commented that "We can negotiate with the U.S. about a base in Manta, if they let us put a military base in Miami..." . On March 19, 2008 the Ecuadorian Constituent Assembly voted to outlaw the installation of any foreign military bases in Ecuador. On July 26, 2008 Ecuador's Foreign Ministry formally notified the U.S. embassy that the U.S. lease on the base would not be renewed.
    ...
    The aircraft at the base flew about 100 missions a month looking for drug-running boats departing Colombia. In 2007, the flights led to about 200 cocaine seizures, totaling about 230 tons. The flights accounted for about 60 percent of U.S. drug interdiction in the eastern Pacific
    LINK

    That lease was worth way more than $23M,

    Plus there are millions of Americans living in Ecuador who pay taxes.  Those dollars benefit Americans.  I think this would be more accurately be described as "Nice Bluff USA".

    Parent

    $23 M? (none / 0) (#164)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:36:33 AM EST
    Try closer to $2 billion.

    The main export product is oil, $5.4 billion worth of which was exported to the USA last year under the terms of the pact.

    While Ecuador will not struggle to find other buyers for its oil, the $166 million it sold to the USA in cut flowers during the same period may suffer. Fruits, vegetables and tuna are also covered by the agreement. In total, the exports were worth $9.5 billion last year, according to the U.S. government.

    "U.S.-Ecuador relations are not in great shape today but would deteriorate even more should Ecuador grant Snowden asylum," said Michael Shifter, president of the Washington-based Inter-American Dialogue think tank. "Ecuador's economy would feel the hit, especially the flower sector."

    Around a quarter of a million people depend on the sector, with 100,000 directly employed by it. Some 280 of them work with Ponce on his farm outside Quito.

    $9.5 billion in exports to the US. Remove the $5.4 billion in oil, because, as the article says, they can find another buyer for that.  Divide by 2 - you get over $2 billion in exports that could be affected.

    Parent

    Maybe like after the Cuban revolution... (none / 0) (#168)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:02:24 AM EST
    when the USSR started buying Cuban sugar exports when we imposed the embargo, other nations will step up and buy Ecuadorian exports to make up for the US being petty and holding the trade agreement over Ecuador's head.

    There is no shortage of countries who wanna stick one in our eye over this who could buy the other exports besides oil...bananas, gold, shrimp.

    Plus...Americans might be none to happy if gas prices rise or we lose jobs because we can't trade with Ecuador anymore.  Trade wars go both ways, but granted it hurts them more than us.  

    Parent

    But That's Not the Threat... (none / 0) (#174)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:26:35 AM EST
    ...the threat is $23M in aid for human rights.

    When they make that threat we can discuss, but right now it's a figment of people's imagination.

    Parent

    40% of Exports is US (none / 0) (#175)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:27:19 AM EST
    And that is not going to change despite what the wing nuts demand. For reasonable predictor of what will happen to US trade relations with Ecuador, here is a flashback to a similar situation:

    WASHINGTON | Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:28am IST
    (Reuters)
    - An possible decision this week by Ecuador to grant political asylum to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange would put long-time U.S. trade benefits for the Andean country at risk, U.S. business leaders and analysts said.

    Yawn

    Parent

    Bloomberg today (none / 0) (#183)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:25:22 PM EST
    From the Link (none / 0) (#188)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 01:58:18 PM EST
    ...I about fell out of my chair:
    Alvarado, who called the trade preferences a "new instrument of blackmail," said Ecuador's government is offering the U.S. $23 million, an amount similar to what the U.S. provides under the ATPDEA deal, to provide human rights training to combat torture, illegal executions and attacks on peoples' privacy.

    We give millions to train people how to not be like us ?

    Parent

    NO (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 02:11:12 PM EST
    The $23M The US gives to Ecuador is for drug trafficking. ATPDEA Stands for this: Andean Trade Promotion and Drug Eradication Act. US is threatening to not include Ecuador, in the ATPDEA program to the tune of losing $23M.  With biting irony, Ecuador is offering the US $23M (the same amount of money) so that the US can learn about Human Rights.

    Parent
    Funny... (none / 0) (#192)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 03:06:40 PM EST
    ...I totally misread that.  

    A Latin American country giving us money for human rights...

    Parent

    Light of the world, etc, etc.... (none / 0) (#189)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 02:01:25 PM EST
    $23M (none / 0) (#185)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:37:08 PM EST
    The $23M figure is what the US is threatening to take off the table. It is the US subsidy for favored trading partners. WIthout it, Ecuador's exports will that more expensive for US buyers.

    Parent
    How does that favored trading partner (none / 0) (#186)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:46:27 PM EST
    thing work?

    Are there stipulations involved such as that they have to agree to move toward privitization, industry self-regulation, and the curtailment, or limitation of things like collective barginning rights? One world under Milton Friedman? So that theres a more "investor friendly" climate over there?

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:45:20 AM EST
    Leaked: CIA aims crackdown on leaks inside CIA

    The director of the CIA has outlined plans to launch a new campaign aimed at keeping the organization's operations secret. The memo, issued by director John Brennan, was itself leaked late on Wednesday.
    [...]
    The CIA declined to comment on the leak after AP contacted it.


    And Director Brennan will no doubt... (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Dadler on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:08:40 AM EST
    ...be unable to understand the import of the latest leak.

    Oy.

    Parent

    "Snow" storm? (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:11:52 AM EST
    Maybe he had to shovel his driveway?

    Parent
    Yep, all snowed in (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Dadler on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:22:19 AM EST
    Ahem

    Parent
    Kind of surprised no one's mentioned (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:18:52 PM EST
    the latest documents and information released with respect to the massive surveillance programs, but maybe people are too busy with the minutiae of old chat room logs and what-not.

    Anyway, this is what we've learned today:

    A review of top-secret NSA documents suggests that the surveillance agency still collects and sifts through large quantities of Americans' online data - despite the Obama administration's insistence that the program that began under Bush ended in 2011.

    Shawn Turner, the Obama administration's director of communications for National Intelligence, told the Guardian that "the internet metadata collection program authorized by the Fisa court was discontinued in 2011 for operational and resource reasons and has not been restarted."

    But the documents indicate that the amount of internet metadata harvested, viewed, processed and overseen by the Special Source Operations (SSO) directorate inside the NSA is extensive.

    [snip]

    On December 26 2012, SSO announced what it described as a new capability to allow it to collect far more internet traffic and data than ever before. With this new system, the NSA is able to direct more than half of the internet traffic it intercepts from its collection points into its own repositories. One end of the communications collected are inside the United States.

    The NSA called it the "One-End Foreign (1EF) solution". It intended the program, codenamed EvilOlive, for "broadening the scope" of what it is able to collect. It relied, legally, on "FAA Authority", a reference to the 2008 Fisa Amendments Act that relaxed surveillance restrictions.

    This new system, SSO stated in December, enables vastly increased collection by the NSA of internet traffic. "The 1EF solution is allowing more than 75% of the traffic to pass through the filter," the SSO December document reads. "This milestone not only opened the aperture of the access but allowed the possibility for more traffic to be identified, selected and forwarded to NSA repositories."

    Are there questions?  Of course.  The article states that it isn't known how much of this is Americans' data, nor is it known what the legal authority is.

    Also, we learned:

    According to a top-secret draft report by the NSA's inspector general - published for the first time today by the Guardian - the agency began "collection of bulk internet metadata" involving "communications with at least one communicant outside the United States or for which no communicant was known to be a citizen of the United States".

    Eventually, the NSA gained authority to "analyze communications metadata associated with United States persons and persons believed to be in the United States", according to a 2007 Justice Department memo, which is marked secret.

    The Guardian revealed earlier this month that the NSA was collecting the call records of millions of US Verizon customers under a Fisa court order that, it later emerged, is renewed every 90 days. Similar orders are in place for other phone carriers.

    The internet metadata of the sort NSA collected for at least a decade details the accounts to which Americans sent emails and from which they received emails. It also details the internet protocol addresses (IP) used by people inside the United States when sending emails - information which can reflect their physical location. It did not include the content of emails.

    Now, back to court fingernails and chat room logs...


    More from Marcy Wheeler, (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:29:54 PM EST
    here:

    The Guardian has their next big NSA scoop, and it is meatier than the earlier ones. The headline is that President Obama continued a 2-degrees of separation analysis of Internet metadata under Section 702 for two years after he came into office. The practice morphed into something else in 2011, making it highly likely the October 3, 2011 FISC opinion finding FAA 702 activities violated the Fourth Amendment pertained to this practice.

    Along with their story, the released two documents, one of which has two appendices. Altogether they've released:

        September 28, 2006 Amendment to Classified Annex to DOD Procedures under EO 12333 (Appendix B to this document)

        November 20, 2007 Recommendation to Amend Procedures on Metadata

    Supplemental Procedures allowing contact chaining to Americans (Appendix A to this document)

        March 24, 2009 Draft NSA IG Report on PSP

    She has much more analysis, which bears reading.

    Parent

    Wendy Davis' filibuster shoes now (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by Angel on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 07:56:32 AM EST
    Paula Deen (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 07:23:32 AM EST
    Certainly has a tearful statement this morning while asking that someone kill her so she can meet them?  Good grief

    Apparently, all that butterfat went (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:26:12 PM EST
    straight to her head.  


    Parent
    She's getting terrible advice from (none / 0) (#101)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:33:17 PM EST
    someone - it's just gone from bad to worse in the days since this whole thing broke.

    Parent
    Her deposition was pretty shockin (none / 0) (#116)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 04:24:04 PM EST
    Hot mess :)

    Parent
    She's Done (none / 0) (#108)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:54:45 PM EST
    I saw the interview and she seemed to at first blame the client, then act like she didn't say it, then cried about her grandson telling her he doesn't lie.  I made no sense, a bunch of talking points strung together for TV.

    Most people would decline to work with a client who used that language and they would not put on a 'real' plantation party.  She keeps acting like that is normal which is not doing her any good.  Some people actually find the thought of a plantation party, offensive, I certainly do.  A party celebrating the old south isn't how people treat each other equally, which she keeps claiming she does, especially when all the servants, or most of them, are black.

    He accent was probably her biggest asset and now it killing her.  It's very hard to imagine someone with that thick an accent acting like they don't use the word, especially after she admitted it, and was in court because of it.

    Wasn't there a big uproar about her keeping the fact she had diabetes a secret while pushing ridiculously fatten foods.  She's not exactly as forthcoming as she claims IMO.

    Parent

    Honestly, I didn't even know ... (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 04:11:30 PM EST
    ... who Paula Deen was until a few days ago.

    When I first heard her name and saw her photo, I actually thought she was probably some old-time shock-jock comedian who's long hovered on just the other side of fame -- you know, the kind of loudmouthed, Rusty Warren-type of brassy broad, whose standup schtick is usually found on the Comedy Channel at 11:00 p.m. EDT on Saturday and Sunday nights.

    Now I know differently, and you've given me a new reason to dislike the coronary bypass special that's Deen's Southern style of cooking.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Yer killin me! (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 04:22:27 PM EST
    I have made one of her recipes.  It was her chocolate pecan pie.  Everybody said it was great but don't ever do it again because it was so rich it made them all sick afterwards.  I did not eat any of it though.

    A few months later my daughter decided to alter her hot artichoke heart dip to Paula Deen's and the same thing happened.  I still have not been able to eat even the regular old artichoke dip though since.  It hits my tongue, and my tongue remembers the Deen version in the bottom of stomach like cement and then I gag.  Sadly I can almost make myself gag just remembering the taste and how sick I felt a half hour later.

    Parent

    What was all that stuff (none / 0) (#194)
    by kmblue on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 05:45:37 PM EST
    about "somebody evil is out there..."

    Parent
    Paula being dropped like a hot potatoe (none / 0) (#117)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 04:25:30 PM EST
    NEW YORK (AP) -- Paula Deen was dropped by Wal-Mart and her name was stripped from four buffet restaurants on Wednesday, hours after she went on television and tearfully defended herself amid the mounting fallout over her admission of using a racial slur. link


    Parent
    She slurred more than once (none / 0) (#118)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 04:27:44 PM EST
    She gave a deposition that was one big long slur :).

    Parent
    Weird: Amazon reports that her book sales (none / 0) (#167)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:57:14 AM EST
    I suppose they are afraid (none / 0) (#173)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:23:36 AM EST
    This is their last chance to get that Paula Deen Cookbook.

    Parent
    Die Tagespresse, (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 07:36:14 AM EST
    a Viennese site, is reporting that Snowden arrived on the first Austrian Airlines flight from Moscow this morning, and has asked for political asylum.  

    The link above is to the google translation of the original page.

    Die Tagespresse is a satire site (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 07:39:57 AM EST
    an outcome of the asylum procedure, however, is not expected before 2022


    Parent
    Examing credibility and motivation (none / 0) (#6)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:00:09 AM EST
    Over at The Nation, Lee Fang explains that Mike Murphy, who served on Meet The Press' pundit panel this past weekend (and who opined, of L'Affaire Snowden, that it has "never been easier in human history to be a whistleblower," which is comically wrong) receives some of his boodle courtesy of the NSA. That's a fact that should have been disclosed. Of course, before you accuse "Meet The Press" of nefariousness, you should consider the possibility that its operators actually don't understand journalism well enough to know that these kinds of disclosures are important. Still, we have to applaud Carly Fiorina for being willing to admit that she was "good friends" with a central figure in the story, Gen. Michael Hayden. Murphy was a friend with benefits! link

    Though Murphy was introduced only as a "Republican strategist," he is also the founding partner of Navigators Global, a lobbying firm that represents one of the NSA's largest contractors. Disclosures show that Navigators Global represents Computer Sciences Corp. (CSC) on issues before Congress. For at least a decade, CSC has won major contracts from the National Security Agency (NSA). Murphy's firm has lobbied on behalf of CSC for bills that would expand the NSA's reach, including the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act or CISPA, which passed the House of Representatives earlier this year.


    Yeah ... (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:50:05 AM EST
    and who opined, of L'Affaire Snowden, that it has "never been easier in human history to be a whistleblower,"

    Of course, he should have said it's never been easier for the government and powerful people to break the law with impunity.

    Parent

    Back to the actual issue (none / 0) (#119)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 04:33:31 PM EST
    WASHINGTON (AP) -- A senator who has been instrumental in the fight for open government warned Wednesday that the government's practice of "vacuuming up the phone records of millions of law-abiding Americans" puts citizens' privacy at risk.

    During a panel sponsored by the American Society of News Editors, Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., said while the information collected by the National Security Agency involves phone numbers, location and time of the call, it might also contain vital personal details, such as relationships, medical issues, religious matters or political affiliations.

    "I have to believe the civil liberties of millions of Americans have been violated," Wyden said.

    "I have not seen any evidence that demonstrates that the bulk collection of all of these records provides unique value," he added.

    Wyden said he believes that the information the NSA gathers could be obtained by emergency authorization or court order and does not need to be collected automatically from millions of Americans in bulk.

    "The fact is that vacuuming up the phone records of millions of law-abiding Americans can really determine and reveal a lot of private information," he said. link



    Parent
    Should have disclosed (none / 0) (#52)
    by MKS on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:03:17 PM EST
    But there is a difference between an opinion writer who is not purporting to testify to facts, and someone who is acting as a witness and is asking us to trust them to accurately tell us those facts....

    Attacking the former can become ad hominem...

    Parent

    President of Associated Press opines that (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:09:13 AM EST
    Intelligence whistleblowers such as Edward Snowden will continue to leak state secrets in the public interest despite being "aggressively pursued" by the Obama administration...
    [snip]
    "The Obama administration has made it clear that it will aggressively pursue leakers and whistleblowers. I think there will inevitably be leakers and whistleblowers, however, because there are so many people who have access to classified information."
    [snip]
    His comments come following the media outcry in the US over the seizure of AP phone records and the threat of criminal prosecution against a Fox News reporter. The US Department of Justice targeted the records of more than 20 phone lines of AP reporters and editors in secret in April and May in an attempt to discover the source of leaked information about a foiled bomb plot in Yemen.

    Business Insider



    We really need something ... (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:54:34 AM EST
    like another Church Committee.

    If we did, I think we'd find that "official story" would replace "conspiracy theory" as a way of indicating loony inaccurate information.

    Parent

    Good point (none / 0) (#19)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:05:32 AM EST
    Some people are such incorrigible conspiracy theorists that they'll believe anything their favorite politician and political party tells them to believe. Some even go so far over the edge that they believe their favorite politician and political party is acting in their interests. Go figure, eh?

    Heh. Some people even believe things their TV tells them.

    Parent

    Aaron Hernandez arrested. (none / 0) (#15)
    by Angel on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:52:01 AM EST


    Prop 8 (none / 0) (#23)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:29:04 AM EST
    Majority Roberts with Scalia, Ginsburg, Breyer, and Kagan.

    The decision of the Ninth Circuit is vacated and remanded.

    Petitioners did not have standing.

    From the opinion: We have never before upheld the standing of a private party to defend the constitutionality of a state statute when state officials have chosen not to. We decline to do so for the first time here.

    More (none / 0) (#24)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:30:06 AM EST
    The Ninth Circuit was without jurisdiciton to consider the appeal. The judgment of the Ninth Circuit is vacated, and the case is remanded with instructions to dismiss the appeal for lack of jurisdiction.


    Parent
    Interesting lineup (none / 0) (#26)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:37:05 AM EST
    Sotomayor dissents with Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito!

    Parent
    Disagrees with narrow view of standing? (none / 0) (#49)
    by MKS on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:58:36 AM EST
    This decision could ... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:40:42 AM EST
    have really bad unintended consequences for states with a measure and proposition system.

    Parent
    Let's hope so. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:32:56 PM EST
    Because quite honestly, Hawaii was the very first state to amend its state constitution by ballot to prohibit same-sex marriage, way back in 1998. I'd love to see someone void that amendment.

    Parent
    I don't think you understand my point ... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 04:15:58 PM EST
    the Constitution protects individuals not only from over-reaches of the state, but from over-reaches of the majority.

    This decision, from my reading, virtually eliminates the ability to challenge a ballot measure or proposition in court.

    Any ballot measure or proposition.

    That's a terrifying precedent.

    Parent

    I'll have to read the opinion more closely. (none / 0) (#143)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:41:34 PM EST
    Because on the face of it, it looks to me as though Judge Walker's original ruling has been upheld, and Proposition 8 has been officially struck down through a federal court challenge as unconstitutional.

    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding as a lay person that the High Court today vacated the 9th Circuit's opinion and remanded the case back to district court, by ruling that no private individual or group has legal standing to assume the role of the State in defending the constitutionality of a stricken law or ballot measure in federal court, when the State itself was named the defendant in the original lawsuit challenging said constitutionality, and said State's duly elected officials have already declined to defend the law.

    Therefore, I'm honestly at a loss to understand how today's ruling precludes any future legal challenges to unjust ballot measures or initiatives, given that it upholds by default the plaintiff's successful challenge to Prop. 8's constitutionality in Hollingsworth v. Perry / Perry v. Schwarzenegger.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Right-wing zealot on Warren Olney's show (none / 0) (#73)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:45:53 PM EST
    is having a complete meltdown, as I write. The world is going to come to an end now! John Eastman and his fellow zealots are going to continue fighting it. Even Scalia's argument that "there are all sorts of marriages, some are companionable" with many between straight childless couples...goes right past this guy. It's all about the children, and the parental genitalia! Got it?

    Parent
    Hmm, must not have been Scalia (none / 0) (#76)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:55:36 PM EST
    since he dissented. I think Olney meant it was Kennedy who said that but I haven't read the opinion, so I will defer to others who may know which justice made the statement about all sorts of marriages.

    Parent
    There is much of interest and (none / 0) (#137)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 07:38:44 PM EST
    something to learn from Scalia's dissent.  After pages of legal camouflage, Scalia's dissent becomes revelatory: he is concerned, only, with the fact that the majority posits that prohibition laws excluding same sex marriage are confined to the federal government, "leaving the second, state-law shoe to be dropped later, maybe next Term."  

    But, of course he admits that he is just guessing, but the dreaded state prohibition is in their sights, following the majorities argument  laws of "desiring to harm."   It is inevitable and that is the basis for his concern, and, indeed, he predicted today's opinion in his Lawrence dissent.   Scalia is a good inverted barometer and his dissent is instructive to the future.

    Parent

    John Eastman is a crackpot. (none / 0) (#97)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:28:43 PM EST
    He's a law professor at Chapman University in Orange County, CA -- which doesn't saw much for the faculty and curriculum.

    Parent
    So, that means ... (none / 0) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:25:59 PM EST
    ... Judge Walker's original ruling stands intact. At least, I hope it does.

    Parent
    Snowden in 2009: (none / 0) (#27)
    by jtaylorr on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:08:07 AM EST
    Leakers "should be shot in the balls" link


    And then he grew up :) (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:32:11 AM EST
    He probably even has empathy for old people now.

    Parent
    I doubt it (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:43:44 AM EST
    since it's only been six years.  :)

    Parent
    that's 20% of his life (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:46:35 AM EST
    When you are young, five years is a LONG time. Come on.

    Parent
    Honestly, I think some people here ... (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:00:57 PM EST
    ... were born 40 years old, minimum. Speaking for myself, it took me to age 14 before I was officially going on 40.

    It makes no sense to me why people are so interested in what Ed Snowden said years ago at age 17, 23, or whatever. I daresay most of us were clearly not the same people at 30-35, that we were at ages 20-25.

    I mean, really, would any of us want to be held accountable for the things we said (and perhaps did!) in young adulthood, as though somehow our social behavior, personal beliefs and political orientation are supposed to remain static in perpetuity, once we graduate from high school?

    Geez, I was still a friggin' Republican when I was 23!
    ;-D

    Parent

    True (none / 0) (#93)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:09:12 PM EST
    But you might want to actually READ the article - these comments were made in 2008 and 2009 - when he and already had a job with the CIA - and was not "17, 23, or whatever".

    Worse yet, during a remarkable January 2009 chat, Snowden wrote that Obama had "appointed a f@cking politician to run the CIA." In that same conversation, he vented his rage over reading a New York Times article about US actions in Iran, which was based on confidential leaks.

    The transcript then goes on with the "those people should be shot in the balls," comment.

    Maybe we shouldn't hold people accountable for what they said at 26, 27 (when they just turned 30 last week) and who hold top secret clearances?

    Parent

    Nobody should get ... (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:23:01 PM EST
    ... top secret security clearance when their own employers express doubts about them. Let's face it, the national security state got exactly what it deserved when Booz Allen hired Edward Snowden. My only wonder is why it took so long for someone to leak this info.

    BTW, I was a Democrat by age 28. My own worldviews had evolved considerably between 1984 and 1989. So, yeah, whatever Snowden may have said in 2007 or 2008 about politics may not really mean all that much now.

    But Snowden's become a sideshow now, and we've ended up debating his fate, rather than discussing the very pertinent issues he's actually tried to raise. I find that very sad.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    One aspect (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:13:23 PM EST
    Why CIA hired him initially after his first real work stint as security guard makes no sense unless something was amiss.  It makes no sense that one (no matter how smart...there are always smart, very smart young men & women applying for government jobs) with neither degree education nor commensurate experience would be hired at what appears to be a journeyman level (systems analyst)by any federal agency, let alone the CIA.

    Why is this relevant to a broader issue?  Because unless someone familiar with government hiring procedures --which I & other old government friends are--can suggest why a security clearance job at what may be a special CIA job in the first instance was even considered for one with his lack of resume, the broader issue concerns whether appropriate security procedures are in place for hiring.  Certainly, that question is a huge one as we have seen from the contractor's hiring & workplace practices.  This case suggests strongly that the hiring at main CIA should be evaluated by an objective panel.  OR...are practices/SOP followed in all other cases but the Snowden entry into CIA ...and, if so, what might that suggest.

    This area is troubling...not as a Snowden sideshow but as a matter of institutional procedures that would be the background against which the foremost issue of data-mining has played out & --if revised -- will play out.


    Parent

    Agreed, christine. (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:42:56 PM EST
    I've been wondering of late how someone like Snowden could have ever received such high-level security clearance, given the expressed hesitations about him -- never mind why Booz Allen proceeded to hire him anyway.

    When evaluating our national security, we would be wise always to remember that oft-stated adage about a chain only being as strong as its weakest link. All those billions and billions of dollars the NSA spent on intricate programs like PRISM, and they ended up getting compromised because a contracted associate was infiltrated by a guy in a tinfoil hat.

    Don't get me wrong, because I'm glad Snowden did what he did -- but it sure ought to give us all pause to consider the corporate cash cow that's become our national security apparatus, and what the priorities of the NSA's contracted associates really are.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    If you read the James Bamford (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:15:40 PM EST
    article in Wired - the Secret War - you'd have discovered that the cybersecurity field is exploding:

    In short, despite the sequestration, layoffs, and furloughs in the federal government, it's a boom time for Alexander. In April, as part of its 2014 budget request, the Pentagon asked Congress for $4.7 billion for increased "cyberspace operations," nearly $1 billion more than the 2013 allocation. At the same time, budgets for the CIA and other intelligence agencies were cut by almost the same amount, $4.4 billion. A portion of the money going to Alexander will be used to create 13 cyberattack teams.

    What's good for Alexander is good for the fortunes of the cyber-industrial complex, a burgeoning sector made up of many of the same defense contractors who grew rich supplying the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. With those conflicts now mostly in the rearview mirror, they are looking to Alexander as a kind of savior. After all, the US spends about $30 billion annually on cybersecurity goods and services.

    In the past few years, the contractors have embarked on their own cyber building binge parallel to the construction boom at Fort Meade: General Dynamics opened a 28,000-square-foot facility near the NSA; SAIC cut the ribbon on its new seven-story Cyber Innovation Center; the giant CSC unveiled its Virtual Cyber Security Center. And at consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton, where former NSA director Mike McConnell was hired to lead the cyber effort, the company announced a "cyber-solutions network" that linked together nine cyber-focused facilities. Not to be outdone, Boeing built a new Cyber Engagement Center. Leaving nothing to chance, it also hired retired Army major general Barbara Fast, an old friend of Alexander's, to run the operation. (She has since moved on.)

    Defense contractors have been eager to prove that they understand Alexander's worldview. "Our Raytheon cyberwarriors play offense and defense," says one help-wanted site. Consulting and engineering firms such as Invertix and Parsons are among dozens posting online want ads for "computer network exploitation specialists." And many other companies, some unidentified, are seeking computer and network attackers. "Firm is seeking computer network attack specialists for long-term government contract in King George County, VA," one recent ad read. Another, from Sunera, a Tampa, Florida, company, said it was hunting for "attack and penetration consultants."

    Remember what happened to due diligence on mortgage lending/underwriting when the real estate bubble was at its peak?  I think it's entirely possible that there's been a similar thing going on in the cybersecurity field, not least because there are oceans of cash at stake.

    Food for thought, anyway.

    Parent

    Mahalo for the link, Anne. (none / 0) (#144)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:43:14 PM EST
    I'll read Bamford's article tonight after I get home.

    Parent
    Snowden (none / 0) (#99)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:32:50 PM EST
    is partially responsible for him becoming part of the story.  As a few others here have pointed out - we only have his word as to what information he had (especially that stuff which he apparently did not yet leak).

    Frankly, the fact that he and the leaks have moved off the bolded part of the front pages, and the fact that it may take months for Ecuador to grant asylum (if they are going to) tells me that people are already starting to move on from the story. If that's the case, it really will be ALL about him, instead of having two stories - about him and about the leaks.

    Parent

    With all due respect, jb, ... (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:52:09 PM EST
    ... Snowden didn't post your original comment referencing his 2008 remarks. Let's please not also blame him for our choices in whom or what we wish to discuss.

    As for Ed Snowden himself, I fear his 15-minute allotment of fame from Andy Warhol is rapidly diminishing. Not that I blame him for endeavoring to keep his name in lights, because the risk to his personal freedom can only increase as people become bored with talking about him, and move on with anticipation to the premiere of Walt Disney's The Lone Ranger -- leaving him to exist alone in the shadows, forever looking over his shoulder for someone who may or may not ever come for him.

    And that's also something one tends to downplay when one is younger than 30, or not take as seriously as one should -- the potential consequences of one's own actions.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Which is what I've been saying (none / 0) (#110)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:58:11 PM EST
    And been pilloried for around here - the potential consequences of one's own actions.

    And I have no idea what you mean by "he didn't post my original comment referencing his 2008 remarks...?

    The Social Security / "F^ck old people" comment - done, according to the article, AFTER Obama took office, which would be 2009?  Or the "just shoot them in the b@lls?" comment, which also was in 2009?

    Parent

    Or maybe... (none / 0) (#153)
    by unitron on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:21:06 PM EST
    ...the national security state got exactly what it deserved when it hired Booz Allen.

    Parent
    Well... (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:30:33 PM EST
    ...I would hate for everything I have written here to be combed over as some fact sheet and not blowing off steam.  Even last week, much less something I said a year or two ago.

    People say stupid sh1t in blogs because there is some expectation of privacy and because their is anonymity.  Not that there is, but one doesn't expect this stuff to combed over anytime in the future and usesd as some sort of representation to ones actual views.

    It's why the whole tracking thing scares the crap out of me, some clown will use what I did in the past to 'prove' who or what I am.

    Parent

    Do you (2.00 / 1) (#102)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:34:27 PM EST
    have top secret clearance, work for the CIA, and post stuff like this?

    I think there's a difference.

    Parent

    Good Point (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:09:16 AM EST
    Do you have top secret clearance, work for the CIA, and post stuff like this?

    I think there's a difference.

    While I am not really the CIA type, who knows what anyone's future holds.  One of could be in that position in a year and it would be a real shame if people used posts here to prove something.

    My broader point was that blog posts don't necessarily reflect ones views.  To me it's similar to the media's latest trick, using message boards as proof of something.  "People hate Paula Deen, here's a couple posts from Zagat calling her this that, and a whole lot more..."

    All it really means is of the thousands of posts, they found a couple that matched their meme.  People tend to exaggerate, lie, and stir the pot when they believe they are anonymous.

    I am not suggesting it's off limits, only that a message board post should be put in it's context and not weighed evenly to what someone says in an interview or some other formal statement.

    Parent

    Thank you (none / 0) (#162)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:26:58 AM EST
    You can comprehend what I was saying. Others here apparently have had some difficulty.

    You're right, of course, that none of us know what the future holds as far as our job prospects.  And no, blog posts, don't necessarily reflect our views, and yes, people sometimes lie and exaggerate when they think they are anonymous. That's why it's very important that what we put out in "the internets" is not something we would be embarrassed about someone finding out later.  But I think that too, will change, as younger people have put so much out there, that in 10 years or so, nothing said on the internet will be a big deal.

    In this case however, Snowden was not some 18 or 19 year-old kid in his mom's basement.  He was a mid-to-late 20's IT professional with top-secret clearance, already employed and deployed with the CIA in a foreign country.  Seems to me, at that point, someone like him would have the knowledge and sense not to put something out there - even in a "bar room bragging" sense.  People with that kind of clearance and access are encouraged not to be posting in chat rooms about anything that might touch on their area of expertise or their job. That's not to say that people with clearances don't have things like active Facebook accounts, Pinterest, Twitter accounts, etc.  They do.  But they are pretty careful about what they post online, especially when it comes to things they actually gain knowledge of because of their jobs.

    Parent

    Are you saying (3.00 / 2) (#126)
    by sj on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:19:08 PM EST
    that once some one has a top secret clearance and works for the CIA that suddenly heavens opens up, wisdom is conferred and human nature goes out the window? Because otherwise there is no difference in the nature of a human with a clearance and one without. Sure there are guidelines about what is appropriate and what is legal, but trust me: there are a lot of idiots with top secret clearance.

    Err... I mean, TS/SCI holders seem to exhibit the same spectrum of wisdom/intelligence that the rest of human population does.

    In spite of all the waivers and warnings and videos and trainings, you are not going to eliminate human nature from humans. Oh, they likely won't spout off about their jobs, but they can still have lots of stupid thoughts that they are free to share.


    Parent

    btw (3.00 / 2) (#128)
    by sj on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:20:37 PM EST
    never ask someone if they have a clearance. You likely won't get an honest answer anyway. I realize you were issuing a challenge, but frankly the answer to your challenge is none of your business.

    Parent
    Do you know (none / 0) (#129)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:22:00 PM EST
    What the word "rhetorical" means?  

    Apparently not.

    Parent

    In that case you are (3.00 / 2) (#130)
    by sj on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:24:02 PM EST
    using "rhetorical" questions to enable you to ignore Scott's point which I think is a flatly dishonest mechanism.

    Parent
    Pfft. (1.00 / 2) (#131)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:27:32 PM EST
    You wouldn't agree with me if I said the sky was blue, so excuse me if I give your opinion any weight or consideration.

    BTW - Scott said:

    ...I would hate for everything I have written here to be combed over as some fact sheet and not blowing off steam.  Even last week, much less something I said a year or two ago

    So, actually, my rhetorical questions were pointing out that he s most likely not in the same situation as Snowden.  Which, if it makes people actually THINK, then no, it isn't dishonest at all.

    It's actually dishonest of you to try and spin it that way though.  Typical of you, lately, so, I'm not surprised.

    Parent

    pfftt back (3.00 / 2) (#133)
    by sj on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:36:55 PM EST
    I agree with you on lots of stuff. Not usually on your judgemental lawn order cr@p though.

    And again, how do you know that Scott doesn't have a clearance? You assume he doesn't so that you can get all sanctimonious and sh!t. And that makes your question fundamentally dishonest. Because if he had one, he could never answer in the affirmative.  It's a slimy trick if you ask me.

    Typical of me lately? That's seriously amusing coming from you. Oh, not that I don't misunderstand people, I do. Lots of times. But not willfully just to make a point.

    Parent

    I didn't misunderstand ANYTHING (1.00 / 1) (#158)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:08:09 AM EST
    But again, thanks for playing.

    Parent
    wev (none / 0) (#190)
    by sj on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 02:09:16 PM EST
    Seriously? You wanna get all feisty over comments from yesterday?  When I don't even like the games you play?

    Oy.

    Parent

    Projection Projection (none / 0) (#136)
    by Politalkix on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 07:10:50 PM EST
    A lot of people are seeing in Snowden what they want to see. Why do people even believe that he has changed and become more mature in the last couple of years? Why is it impossible to consider that he is the same as he always but just made a deal with some foreign government or private financier(s) to leak in exchange for a fat paycheck and perks like pole dancing girl friends, movie stardom, etc. Wouldn't such an action fit with his libertarian worldview?
    He may now be in way over his head.
    Is it possible that he is making some people project on him in the same way as John Edwards made some people project on him by telling them what they want to hear?


    Parent
    There is... (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by sj on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50:01 AM EST
    ... a HUGE difference between a 24 year old young man and a 30 year old. Almost as big a difference as there is between an 18 year old boy and 22 year old man-like being.

    Parent
    Ah. I just knew that 19-yr. old not fully (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:23:57 AM EST
    matured mind would be referenced.  

    Parent
    Heck, I'm not (none / 0) (#42)
    by sj on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:44:11 AM EST
    convinced that a mind is mature until early 30's. At that point my son and nephew and niece and cousins suddenly were adults in fact instead of just legally. And I don't exclude myself from the immaturity assessment by the way.

    Parent
    BTW, I knew the comment would show (none / 0) (#45)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:50:07 AM EST
    up, but had no idea who would post it!  Carry on.  

    Parent
    Just curious (none / 0) (#48)
    by sj on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:57:47 AM EST
    Do you have sons? It sounds like this is theory to you.

    Parent
    Daugthers. I did argue in (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:13:03 PM EST
    a Superior Court preliminary hearing (criminal) that the 19-yr. old who impersonated a law enforcement officer (uniform, red light on top of car, pulled over motorists) was an adult.  The judge asked me to distinguish an almost-adult minor (under 18) and this young man.  I was at a loss for words!

    Parent
    ha! (none / 0) (#57)
    by sj on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:21:26 PM EST
    That stunt sounds very like something any one of those relatives would have thought brilliant at that age. My friend's grandfather used to say that boys should be put in a barrel at age 13, fed through a hole, and not let out until they're thirty. When I was 22 (when I first heard this) I saw neither wit nor wisdom in this assertion.

    I get it now.

    Parent

    I don't think I truly grew up until ... (none / 0) (#94)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:10:25 PM EST
    ... after my divorce at age 25. Even then, I'd like to think I've been growing and evolving ever since. Here, I'll prove it to you -- pull my finger.
    ;-D

    Parent
    Okay, that made me laugh :) (none / 0) (#132)
    by sj on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 06:28:22 PM EST
    There's also the very real ... (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:11:52 PM EST
    chance that Snowden was playing the long game and statements such as these were a way to establish his bona fides in the intelligence community to get where he wanted to be.

    But, as always, it's important not to be distracted by the Snowden soap opera.  And keep focused on the illegal actions of NSA, CIA, executive branch, et al.

    Parent

    Inspite of those howling about (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:56:02 PM EST
    How treasonous he is, he has made it clear that he takes our true national security seriously.  And he joined the military to free an oppressed people and was very disappointed hearing others around him talk about desiring to kill Arabs vs. freeing them from dictatorship.  Combine that with his current obvious free Internet activism support, and I'm willing to bet he still wouldn't be crazy about leaks that empower the Iranian regime.

    Parent
    I doubt that ... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:41:52 PM EST
    but, again, he's not the issue.  He's a sideshow that is already distracting from the main issue.

    Parent
    For some (none / 0) (#35)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:56:32 AM EST
    He ain't near collecting Social Security though.

    You people take everything so literally.  It was a joke.  Buy a sense of humor.  Sheesh.

    Parent

    Rimbaud wrote amazing poetry (none / 0) (#187)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:59:08 PM EST
    at 18 and was an arms dealer who never wrote another line at 30.

    Parent
    "If you never change your mind.... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:19:19 AM EST
    why have one?"

    - Edward De Bono

    Parent

    Not Too Be Nitpicky, but... (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:45:26 AM EST
    ...the actual quote is "those people should be shot in the balls."

    He was referring to anonymous sources regarding a covert program that included Iran and Israel, but I am sure you don't make the distinction between that and a program that tracks it's own citizens.

    He went on to say:


    • that shit is classified for a reason
    • it's not because "oh we hope our citizens don't find out"
    • it's because "this shit won't work if iran knows what we're doing."
    • None would speak on the record because of the great secrecy surrounding the intelligence developed on Iran.

    Nor do I suppose that what one says on a blog 5 years ago from a article in the paper just might not pertain once said person is actually in the middle of it and realizing the program defies the Constitution.

    If only you clowns would investigate the people who implement these secrets programs with the same ferocity, the programs probably wouldn't exist.

    There really is only one question that needs to be answered, and it ain't what Snowden said in a blog while in Europe about a NYT article, it's this:

    Is the public better off knowing about PRISM or not ?

    Parent

    And, the article goes on to say: (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:00:41 PM EST
    The chats make clear that what Snowden discovered while working for the government felt so deeply wrong to him that he had a major change of heart. While there was no "one moment," seeing officials lie about these omniscient spying programs over a period of years pushed him over the edge. "It was seeing a continuing litany of lies from senior officials to Congress--and therefore the American people," Snowden said in an online chat last week. "Seeing someone in the position of James Clapper baldly lying to the public without repercussion is the evidence of a subverted democracy. The consent of the governed is not consent if it is not informed."

    Hints of this might be seen in Snowden's later postings to the Ars forums, which began to slow around the time he left #arsificial. One of his last posts, from 2010, was about society's increasing acquiescence to "spooky types."

    Snowden suggested during his Q&A last week that he was waiting for Obama to bring change to the surveillance state. Clearly, even more than halfway through the first term of the Obama presidency, Snowden was a wholly different person than he is today. Whatever happened during those four years, it resulted in profound disillusionment. Snowden ultimately reached the decision to throw away the life he knew and to reveal the truth about NSA spying programs.

    Reading the excerpts from the log, I had the feeling that I probably wouldn't have much liked that Edward Snowden - his embrace of Ron Paul, his antipathy toward Social Security - and I might not even like the current Edward Snowden.

    But this isn't about whether we'd want to have a beer with the guy, it's about these massive spying and data collection programs that have taken more privacy from us than we ever realized, and it's about their constant lying about all of it.

    Whatever accountability Edward Snowden is being hunted down like a dog to face, it should pale in comparison to the accountability these lying, prying weasels should have to face.

    Parent

    Maybe he thinks ... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:38:43 AM EST
    being "shot in the balls" is a good thing.

    That kinky monkey!

    ;)

    Parent

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 49 (none / 0) (#34)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50:44 AM EST
    Oops, a typo, this cartoon is good (none / 0) (#36)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:11:33 AM EST
    Snowden's Sticky Situation (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:38:10 AM EST
    Getting Sitckier:
    But official jeers that the US engages in "double standards" by describing Russian defectors as "political refugees," while hounding those like Snowden who have leaked intelligence to the ends of the earth, have been replaced by much more cautious rhetoric such as Putin's oddly colorful metaphor whose meaning appears to be that he wishes Snowden had never turned up in Russia.

    "Just like Snowden, [Mr. Assange] considers himself a rights advocate and fights for sharing information. Ask yourself: should or should not people like these be extradited to be later put to jail?" Putin said.

    "In any case, I would like not to deal with such issues because it is like shearing a pig: there's lots of squealing and little fleece," he added.

    Experts say the basic reason for the change of tone may be fear of diplomatic consequences.



    Pigs (none / 0) (#59)
    by chaking on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:36:39 PM EST
    Ahh, the old shearing a pig anecdote.  One we can all relate to... ;)

    Parent
    Rumor is Snowden now has a US based attorney (none / 0) (#75)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:48:30 PM EST
    Did anyone from TL take the call?

    I'm guessing the Ecuador landing spot may fall through.

    A US based attorney, eh? So the NSA (none / 0) (#81)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:28:27 PM EST
    will hear every word of their private communication.  Priceless.

    Parent
    Ecuador (none / 0) (#90)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:59:15 PM EST
    Looks like it may be a very, VERY slow process to get asylum there.


    Ecuador signaled on Wednesday that it may deliberate slowly on the asylum application from Edward J. Snowden, the fugitive former security contractor wanted in the United States, raising the possibility that he could spend weeks in legal limbo as he plots his next steps inside a Moscow airport transit area.

    The signals from Ecuador, conveyed in statements by its foreign minister and embassy in Washington, came as the Obama administration sought to further lower the cold war atmospherics over Mr. Snowden with Russia, which said on Tuesday that it would not extradite him in defiance of American demands.

    Mr. Snowden, 30, whose revelations of American surveillance activities abroad have angered the Obama administration and raised a debate about the government's invasion of privacy, remained out of sight on Wednesday. It was his fourth day in a restricted international transit area of Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, as speculation intensified over when he would leave and where he would go.

    Ecuador's foreign minister, Ricardo Patiño, suggested to reporters at a news conference in Malaysia that his government could take months to decide whether to grant Mr. Snowden's asylum request, and that his country's relations with the United States would be one of the factors considered.

    Mr. Patiño compared Mr. Snowden's case to that of Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, who has been given asylum in the Ecuadorean Embassy in London.

    "It took us two months to make a decision in the case of Assange, so do not expect us to make a decision sooner this time," Mr. Patiño said, according to an Associated Press account of his remarks.

    Hope that chair in the transit area of the Moscow airport is comfy.

    Parent

    Damn pension costs are killing us! ;) (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:59:24 PM EST
    Meet the CEO of drug distributor McKesson Corp, the man "entitled" to a 159 million dollar lump sum pension.

    At least this guy was, in Corprate America terms, a "success"..unlike the golden parachuters who cash out obscene amounts after burning their corporation to the ground...but 159 million? On top of 50 million a year? According to free market principles, that means there was nobody in this country who could do the same job for 49.9 million a year and a 158.9 million dollar lump sum pension.

    Credit where credit is due, KDog. (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:31:09 PM EST
    Drug companies are highly efficient at extracting out money.  They make the so called drug cartels look like bumbling amateurs.

    Parent
    Quite the racket.... (none / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:39:58 PM EST
    don't even have to dodge a competitor's bullets or worry about a SWAT military-grade assault team beating down the door or nuthin'.

     

    Parent

    And if Their Goods are Made... (none / 0) (#88)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:55:26 PM EST
    ...in another country, they get the actual military to ensure their safe delivery to the American market, free of charge.

    Parent
    Aaron Hernandez charged with murder, (none / 0) (#87)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:53:03 PM EST
    and five gun-related charges.

    Sports Illustrated:

    Aaron Hernandez was arrested and taken out of his North Attleboro, Mass., home in handcuffs on Wednesday morning. A short time later, the Patriots released the star tight end. Hernandez was then brought to Attleboro District Court where he was charged with murder in the first degree and five other gun-related charges. He pleaded not guilty to all charges and will be held without bail.

    [snip]

    During the arraignment, a prosecutor detailed the case evidence and said Hernandez "orchestrated" the crime from the beginning. He said Hernandez was seen with Lloyd at 2:30 a.m. and his phone included texts to the victim and two friends on the night of the murder. He also said that the prosecution has video evidence of Hernandez walking through his home with a gun shortly after Lloyd's murder.

    Patriots have released him:

    "A young man was murdered last week and we extend our sympathies to the family and friends who mourn his loss. Words cannot express the disappointment we feel knowing that one of our players was arrested as a result of this investigation. We realize that law enforcement investigations into this matter are ongoing. We support their efforts and respect the process. At this time, we believe this transaction is simply the right thing to do."

    This is not sounding good for Hernandez.

    What a sad sad thing. (none / 0) (#123)
    by Teresa on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 05:44:34 PM EST
    So talented. I was hoping he was only involved a little, like possibly knowing who did it, but not actively involved. Not involved at all, actually, is what I hoped.

    Parent
    Interesting interview with attorney Harvey... (none / 0) (#140)
    by magster on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:55:34 PM EST
    Steinberg on a sports radio station.

    Parent
    Some Stress Relief (none / 0) (#103)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:40:08 PM EST
    Willie Nelson doing a Coldplay cover.


    Quarantining America (none / 0) (#157)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:03:18 AM EST
    Internet traffic to the United States from Asia, Africa and even Latin America has been in decline, a trend that is almost certainly going to accelerate as those regions ramp up their own network exchange points and local services to minimize dependence on networks and media services under US control.

    The global imperative is to contain and isolate the criminal NSA data-mining exploits solely to the United States. That is, to quarantine this Orwellian infection to North America.

    That's what the world is talking about today.

    ...............................................................

    Actually, it's hundreds of millions of computers, and billions of phone calls, that are routed through the NSA's data collection traps -- from every corner of the world -- every minute of the day. Even though most of them are not communicating to anyone in the US, the Internet's current architecture allows the NSA to capture them all. Potentially, that means every single soul on earth who uses electronic communication is being tracked.

    Other nations understood this immediately. They are well aware that their citizens have been caught in the illegal NSA dragnet. This is a completely unacceptable act by the US -- just as it would be if the world's Internet backbone was located in Russia and Moscow was mining the rich personal data of every American citizen.

    The United States has inadvertently declared itself to be a rogue, predatory Police State. When the story broke, officials in European capitals demanded immediate answers from their US counterparts and denounced the practice of secretly gathering digital information on Europeans as unacceptable, illegal and a serious violation of basic human rights.

    There were heated and outraged discussions at the G-8 summit in Ireland. Eric Holder was flown to Brussels for questioning by the European Union. When Holder left, they were even more outraged. The Germans openly liken the United States actions to the actions of the Cold War-era Stasi.


    -- US & NSA Accused of Criminal Privacy Violations in Dozens of Nations - Snowden Blowback

    Re NSA / Facebook data collection (none / 0) (#165)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 10:38:36 AM EST
    Over on the Zimmerman trial thread it has been noticed that Jeantel's Facebook page has been garbled by Facebook, listing her as a Miami (Ohio) University student.  Since she lives in Florida it is a safe guess that her intent was to claim matriculation at the University of Miami in Miami, Florida.

    While this may be fiction on her part, it is probably typical of the quality of data the NSA scoops up from Facebook.


    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 50 (none / 0) (#171)
    by Dadler on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:12:49 AM EST
    Global Snow storm? (none / 0) (#176)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:29:26 AM EST
    Federation Council (Russian: Сове́т Федера́ции; Sovet Federatsii) is the upper house of the Federal Assembly of Russia (the parliament of the Russian Federation), according to the 1993 Constitution of the Russian Federation.
    -- wikipedia

    A working group of the Federation Council for investigating the facts of American Internet companies providing data about Russians to the US intelligence services invites the ex-employee of the US intelligence Edward Snowden to cooperation, head of the working group, Senator Ruslan Gattarov said Thursday.

    The decision on creating the group was adopted at the plenary session of the Federation Council on Wednesday. According to Gattarov, it will include legislators, representatives of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Prosecutor's office, the Ministry of communications, Roscomnadzor. Parliamentarians intend to submit first temporary results of the investigation in October.

    "We invite Edward Snowden to cooperation and hope that, as soon as he settles his legal status, he will collaborate with our working group, and give us the proof of the US special services' access to servers of Internet companies," Gattarov said.

    Voice of Russia



    Prosecutor's Office ? (none / 0) (#179)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:16:15 PM EST
    A lot of countries are (none / 0) (#182)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:20:29 PM EST
    planning lawsuits

    Parent
    Lol (none / 0) (#177)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 11:41:04 AM EST
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:10:46 PM EST
    Twiky Wabbit... or Wylie Coyote..

    And then there is this:

    ... if the government is still struggling to figure out what Snowden took a month after he left NSA -- it indicates that the government would not know if a Sysadmin at the NSA had spied on Americans, if ever, until months after someone did so.

    But, promise, this giant dragnet is secure.

    emptywheel

    Parent

    They seem to be doing a good job (none / 0) (#180)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 12:18:38 PM EST
    of keeping you safe from themselves so far, eh? Heh.

    Parent
    Rick Perry (none / 0) (#193)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 03:33:33 PM EST
    Slams Wendy Davis:


    Perry criticized Davis for preventing the passage of a Texas measure that would ban abortions in the state after 20 weeks of pregnancy. Davis, a Democrat, held up the vote with a 13-hour filibuster that won national attention.

    "No life is trivial in God's eyes. The fact is -- who are we to say that children born into the worst of circumstances can't live successful lives?" Perry asked at the National Right to Life convention in Dallas.

    "In fact, even the woman who filibustered the Senate the other day was born into difficult circumstances," he continued. "She was the daughter of as single woman; she was a teenage mother herself. She managed to eventually graduate from Harvard Law School and serve in the Texas senate. It is just unfortunate that she hasn't learned from her own example that every life must be given a chance to realize its full potential and that every life matters."

    She gave a forceful response, but geez, what an a$$.

    Remember, this is (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by Zorba on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 08:42:49 PM EST
    Rick Perry  you're talking about here.   A$$ goes without saying.  

    Parent
    Rick Perry compares (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by shoephone on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 09:24:58 PM EST
    children of single mothers to...babies born with spina bifida? and, apparently, finds them in much the same circumstances.

    This is the same man who suggested in the presidential primaries that Texas be allowed to secede from the union.

    Parent

    Kind of insulting to a$$es, don't ya think? (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 09:28:29 PM EST
    Geez is right...

    And news flash to Rick Perry: if I was a single woman looking to have a baby that I wanted to realize its full potential, Texas wouldn't even make the list of possibilities.  These are the same people who would happily kick children off Medicaid, cut supplemental nutrition programs and education.

    We'd have to spot Rick Perry about 50 IQ points to level the playing field between him and an a$$.

    Parent

    Obama and Mandela (none / 0) (#196)
    by Politalkix on Thu Jun 27, 2013 at 09:14:16 PM EST
    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 51 (none / 0) (#200)
    by Dadler on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 09:24:48 AM EST
    A Fourth Amendment case (none / 0) (#201)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 12:35:17 PM EST
    Out of the Wisconsin Supreme Court last week.

    When can a weekend guest consent to a law enforcment search of a home computer?

    h/t Volokh

    In other words, pick your hourse guests and those who can use your computer wisely if you have something to hide!

    Most transparent administration in history (none / 0) (#202)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 12:41:56 PM EST
    Certainly Edward Snowden's crime is one of public relations. In this day and age, power ain't just jackboots, tanks and missiles. What he did by outing the NSA and its gargantuan surveillance operation was mess hugely with the American image -- the American brand -- with its irresistible combination of might and right.

    That's the nature of his "treason." The secret he gave away was pretty much the same one the little boy blurted out in Hans Christian Andersen's tale: "The emperor has no clothes!" That is, the government's security industry isn't devoted, with benevolent righteousness, to protecting the American public. Instead, it's obsessively irrational, bent on accumulating data on every phone call we make. It's a berserk spy machine, seemingly to no sane end. How awkward."

    -- The Naked Empire