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Colorado Recall: Both Senators Ousted

Update: The voters of El Paso and Pueblo have spoken. Senate President John Morse and Senator Angela Giron are out. They will both be replaced by Republicans.

Today was voting day on the efforts to recall two Colorado legislators over their support for new gun control laws.

For Senate President John Morse: El Paso County Clerk and Recorder live update results here. For State Senator Angela Giron: Pueblo County Clerk and Recorder live update of Senate District 3 results here. [More...]

Giron has set up a “victory party” at the Pueblo Union Depot. Pueblo is a heavily Democratic county and early results strongly favor her retention. I think she'll prevail. Morse, from Colorado Springs, is at greater risk. Turnout wasn't very high. Early results show Morse behind, 52 to 48%, but that could change.

Both the NRA and Michael Bloomberg contributed substantial sums to the recall efforts, on opposite sides, of course -- more than $300k each.

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    Very sad result, especially in light of (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 02:03:20 AM EST
    the mass murder in Aurora.

    I don't (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Mikado Cat on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 04:07:28 AM EST
    see it as sad when politicians attempt to exploit a tragedy to make policy and the voters boot them out.

    Reducing the number of rounds a rifle holds is not a good solution to a failure of the mental health system.

    Parent

    I find it difficult to even read your (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 04:10:57 AM EST
    comment as the logic totally escapes me.

    Parent
    Reducing the number of rounds a rifle holds (none / 0) (#9)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 06:59:37 AM EST
    .

    The law did not even do that.  The law merely made it a tad bit more inconvenient to get whatever capacity you wanted.  This cheap symbolism was paid for in lost manufacturing and hospitality jobs and wages.

    Little wonder that the blue collar district tossed the Bloomberg toadie.

    .

    Parent

    Ridiculous (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 07:46:55 AM EST
    This cheap symbolism was paid for in lost manufacturing and hospitality jobs and wages.

    Little wonder that the blue collar district tossed the Bloomberg toadie

    There is absolutely no evidence to support this claim.  The issue was their votes for gun control - not some unspecified number of lost jobs because some gun group took ball and went home.

    Since Morse and/or Giron are "Bloomberg toadies", does that make the Republicans LaPierre lapdogs?  Maybe Nugent puppets?

    Parent

    The evidence (1.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 07:58:57 AM EST

    The evidence is:

     1. Lost jobs in manufacturing.
     2. Lost jobs is hospitality
     3. Lost wages in hospitality
     4. "Blue collar" districts are disproportionately dependent on those kinds jobs and wages.

    Parent

    That's not evidence (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:34:58 AM EST
    1.  How many jobs?  What companies?  Try to be specific, particularly since Magpul - the one garnering the most publicity in their threats to take their ball and leave - hasn't left Colorado.

    2.  How many lost hospitality jobs?  How much in lost wages?  Again, try to be specific.

    3.  The recall movements began before Magpul threatened to pull out of Colorado.  Where is the evidence that people voted in favor of the recall due to lost jobs, rather than simply being angry about the gun control laws?  Exit poll data ... survey ... anything?

    Just making it up ...

    Parent
    Jobs and wages (none / 0) (#13)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 09:03:36 AM EST
    Funny stuff (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 10:16:46 AM EST
    Magpul - the one trying to make the loudest threats about pulling out of Colorado - issues a press release saying they're making some sights and PMAGs outside Colorado.  No details - nothing about how many components or the number of jobs relocated at all.  Then, after already delaying an announcement about their relocation earlier this year, they promise to provide updates on their relocation plans in April.  Since then?

    Nothing.

    Then, you have some hobby group canceling a single shooting event and you think that this had a significant effect on the hospitality industry in Colorado?  Not only that, but you think that threats of Magpul moving out of Colorado and a cancelled shooting event caused enough damage to the economy of Colorado that it was the reason people voted for the recall?

    That's funny.

    Parent

    Read more closely (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 11:11:54 AM EST
    This is the second shooting competition to abandon the state after a recent announcement by firearms maker Ruger that it was moving the 2013 Ruger Rimfire Challenge World Championship out of Colorado.

    These were cancellations of scheduled events.  Both of which meant work in the hospitality industry.  

    Those were just the two I found with a 2 minute goggle search.  Both the IDPA match, and the Ruger match are recurring events that are unlikely to come back in future years.  A gift to other states that will keep on giving for years to come.

    The USPSA national matches run over 1,000 attendees will never be scheduled in Colorado.  Too many competitors have normal capacity mags.  This year they are in Saint George, Utah.  

    That loss of work for blue collar Coloradans is all for nearly meaningless symbolism.

    Parent

    What "loss of work"? (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 02:41:20 PM EST
    You still haven't provided any evidence of the number of jobs allegedly lost due to the new laws.  More importantly, you haven't provided any evidence at all that the people who voted in favor of the recall did so because of lost jobs.

    But your crocodile tears for blue collar Coloradans is duly noted.

    Parent

    Hahahahaha! (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 04:22:36 PM EST
    Okay, sarc, that one made me laugh.

    Parent
    You want evidence, Yman? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 03:22:24 PM EST
    Well, don't hold your breath, because Abdul doesn't do evidence. Rather, he's a big picture-type of guy.

    Parent
    The visionary type.. (none / 0) (#51)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 07:14:46 PM EST
    and if being horrified at the prospect of background checks and limiting rounds isn't evidence of a pervasive mental health crisis, I don't know what is.

    Parent
    I suppose you are right (none / 0) (#64)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:33:37 AM EST

    Perhaps you are right.  Hotels with rooms not booked still hire the same cleaning staff, and restaurants with fewer patrons don't send staff home early.  

    However, that was not my personal experience in those two industries.

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#69)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 11:07:37 AM EST
    You might want to try reading more slowly.

    A drop in business of 0.0005% isn't causing a loss of jobs, regardless of your "personal experience".

    Parent

    Tourism jobs (none / 0) (#66)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 09:01:36 AM EST
    .

    Tourism is the second largest industry in the State of Colorado. Visitors stimulate the local economy and benefit hotels, meeting facilities, attractions, restaurants, cultural institutions, tour companies, transportation providers, local farmers and countless other businesses.

    This may be simply too hard for you to understand, but chasing tourism business to other states does not support employment in your state.  At the very least, chasing sporting events to other states means meals not served and hotels not rented and the labor to support those activities diminished accordingly.

    If reduced tourism has no impact on employment in the state then Colorado is wasting a boatload of money promoting tourism.

    .

    Parent

    I don't accept your initial premise (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 10:57:56 AM EST
    and the premise of the "it's the economy, stupid" Summers-Rubin-Greenspan fans of shriveled imagination - that any activity that creates jobs and revenue is a good thing..

    Though I do realize it's a tenet of conservatism that as long as someone's getting rich off landmines and thalidomide that's all the justification that's ever needed..

    Parent

    What's quite easy to understand ... (none / 0) (#68)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 11:02:13 AM EST
    ... is the reason you haven't offered a single bit of evidence re: the number of jobs you believe were lost and the imaginary connection to the motivations of recall voters.

    You have none.

    BTW - Of course tourism is a large industry in Colorado - but it's not evidence that either:  1) jobs were lost because a gun hobbyist group moved their shooting competition, or 2) that people voted for the recall because of this imagined loss of jobs.  Particularly since we're talking about (at most) a few hundred tourists out of 58 million tourists that visit the state every year.  It's not even a drop in the proverbial ocean, assuming the numbers aren't inflated or imaginary like the rest of your claims.  Funny that Ruger didn't bother to cancel its Colorado Rimfire Challenge at Weld just a few weeks ago.  Guess a lot of these threats are just tantrums and posturing.

    Not to mention that no one "chased" these Clint-Eastwood-wannabes out of Colorado.  They chose to go to another state because they didn't like the laws that were passed.  It's called economic choice.

    Parent

    Of course jobs were lost (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 12:17:45 PM EST

    Meals not served and rooms not rented means less labor.  Period.  Did you fail econ 101?

    Parent
    Then let's see the evidence (none / 0) (#75)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 01:06:02 PM EST
    Nope - got an "A".  One of the reasons I know that a drop of 0.0005% in tourism is going to have no effect on jobs.  But if you have some actual evidence that:

    1.  These laws caused a loss of jobs, and
    2.  Supporters of the recall voted for it due to this negative, economic effect

    ... it would be nice to see it.

    Otherwise, it's simply a baseless, specious attempt to rationalize the recall with absolutely no evidence.

    Parent

    Injection molding equipment is heavy as ... (none / 0) (#16)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 10:18:04 AM EST
    No surprise that the factory hasn't moved.

    Parent
    Time for their 'triumphant return,' anyway. (none / 0) (#17)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 10:21:54 AM EST
    with fanfares, speeches, obnoxiously loud music, etc., all served up to fill the airwaves and sell advertising...

    Parent
    people don't generally give a sh*t (none / 0) (#56)
    by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 09:41:25 PM EST
    about statistical evidence when deciding to vote out politicians they feel have done a bad job or who have not listened to the voters.  

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#55)
    by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 09:33:10 PM EST
    Do you really think the state and local people are so stupid they don't know when they have lost jobs and wages?  You can not imagine them voting someone out of office because they didn't think that person was acting in their best interests?
    People know what is going on in their own back yard and when they are involved and vote politicians are held accountable.  

    Parent
    Nope ... I don't ... (none / 0) (#70)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 11:15:07 AM EST
    ... think that they're "stupid" at all.  My point was that AAA was claiming the recall voters were motivated by the (presumably substantial) job loss that occurred because these laws were passed.  I think his theory is ridiculous because he (and you) are unable to cite any evidence to support the claims that jobs were lost and that recall supporters voted in favor of the recall for economic reasons.  In fact, Magpul (the company that threatened to move from Colorado but hasn't) has cashed in on its publicity with a large influx of business.

    The reason the recall passed is because the gun-rights voters are easy to get to the polls and there was very low turnout.

    Parent

    That wasn't my point (none / 0) (#72)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 12:24:16 PM EST
    .

    The point was it should not be a surprise that a law that with the only apparent real world effect is driving tourism business out of state would be popular with blue collar workers, as tourism jobs are largely blue collar.

    Are you unfamiliar with the concept of "labor solidarity."

    .

    Parent

    I am familiar with it (none / 0) (#74)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 12:58:11 PM EST
    I'm also familiar with the more accurate term to describe your theory ...

    ... "specious, baseless, evidence-free claim".

    Parent

    "Exploit a tragedy"? (none / 0) (#39)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 03:01:15 PM EST
    The Colorado State Legislature has an obligation to provide for public safety and well being of state residents, and the Democratic Majority did its job in the wake of what should have been a very avoidable tragedy, but for lax and obsolete firearms laws. How exactly did these two state senators benefit personally by their vote?

    Short answer is, they didn't. Rather, I would offer that they took a principled stand and did their duty in the best traditions of state legislators, knowing full well the potential short-term political consequences of their action. They were willing to risk their offices, and they ultimately paid the price.

    17 years ago, seven members of the Hawaii State House of Representatives -- 6 Democrats, 1 Republican -- lost their seats because they very publicly opposed a bill that would have explicitly banned same-sex marriage through a state constitutional amendment.

    In three weeks, the Hawaii State Legislature will convene in special session to legalize same-sex marriage. And how are they able to do that, given the aforementioned constitutional amendment?

    Because 17 years ago, those seven former state representatives were able to fashion a compromise to the language of that constitutional amendment -- subsequently passed by Hawaii voters in 1998 -- which earned them the undying enmity of the radical Christian right, by which it states simply that "[t]he legislature shall have the power to reserve marriage to opposite sex couples."

    Note that the language does not explicitly ban same-sex marriage; rather, it regards that particular decision as the sole province of the state legislature. Hawaii legislators did just that in 1999 in accordance with the amendment, and they'll be meeting in special session to repeal that statute.

    Now, you may have picked off two Colorado state senators, but the very moderate common-sense firearms law they crafted still stands. And if I had to guess, that law will remain in effect. Because if you want the reality-free parallel universe of the NRA, you need only go to Iowa, where a number of nonsensical fools masquerading as county sheriffs -- citing their need to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act, of all things!! --  are now authorizing the issuance of firearms permits to the visually mpaired and legally blind.

    All these state legislators were willing to risk their jobs on principle because they recognized what you and your friends in the radical right clearly refuse to see, which is that societies will evolve meet the demands and circumstances of the times in which people are living -- and as will be shown in Hawaii three weeks hence, nothing is forever absolute.

    In that regard, I can only wish you lotsa luck in attempting to defend over the next 20 years what can best be described as a late 18th century American anachronism, especially when radicals like the aforementioned Iowa sheriffs are clearly pushing the envelope, and the body count across the country continues to pile up. Chances are, you'll need every bit of it -- and then some.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Gun Laws. (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by BillyJoe on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 12:37:40 AM EST
    Trouble is, all of the laws the Colorado legislature passed will do NOTHING to improve public safety.  They will do nothing to prevent the criminals that already get guns illegally from continuing to get guns illegally and get guns that have bigger magazines than the law allows.  What good were the laws they passed other than to make it more difficult for law abiding citizens.  Remember, when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

    Parent
    Your link looks interesting (none / 0) (#47)
    by sj on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 05:50:23 PM EST
    but I don't subscribe.

    Parent
    You can open that article. (none / 0) (#53)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 07:20:39 PM EST
    Like the New York Times, The Des Moines Register allows you access to a certain number of articles per month.

    Parent
    nope (none / 0) (#54)
    by sj on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 07:27:35 PM EST
    apparently exceeded already.

    Parent
    Logged into a different (none / 0) (#61)
    by sj on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 02:53:48 AM EST
    computer and now I can read. Thanks.

    Parent
    very cool sj... (none / 0) (#63)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 07:43:18 AM EST
    I had never thought to log onto my other computer for that reason.  Good tip.  thanx.

    Parent
    Happy to be of service (none / 0) (#76)
    by sj on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 05:47:36 PM EST
    I sometimes forget myself when there is an article that I want to read. That usually happens with the NYT. It might be a first with the Des Moines Register.

    Parent
    So they fixed the mental health laws? (none / 0) (#49)
    by redwolf on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 06:40:01 PM EST
    The Colorado State Legislature has an obligation to provide for public safety and well being of state residents, and the Democratic Majority did its job in the wake of what should have been a very avoidable tragedy, but for lax and obsolete firearms laws. How exactly did these two state senators benefit personally by their vote?

    The only way they could have prevented this tragedy was by locking up the killer when his psychologist reported that he was homicidal week(s) before the shooting. And yet all the Dem majority was pass a bunch of gun laws that wouldn't have stopped the shooting at all.

    The government has a responsibility to keep insane people away from the public and they failed in Arizona, they failed in Colorado, and they failed most recently at Sandy Hook.  Instead the government exploits attacks like this to attack gun owners while allow actual nuts cases to walk around free to commit more insane acts.

    Parent

    What is this - "Minority Report"? (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 07:18:10 PM EST
    redwolf: "The government has a responsibility to keep insane people away from the public and they failed in Arizona, they failed in Colorado, and they failed most recently at Sandy Hook."

    Last I heard, the government has a constitutional responsibility to follow the law. You don't just lock people up based on some vague fear that they MIGHT commit a crime due to mental health issues.

    You want to be taken seriously in these discussions, then get real and stop parroting the incendiary remarks of some deranged AM squawk radio host -- lest we're tempted to petition the court to have YOU incarcerated for sounding like a crackpot.

    Parent

    Follow the law. (none / 0) (#60)
    by BillyJoe on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 12:42:00 AM EST
    "Last I heard, the government has a constitutional responsibility to follow the law."  Following the law INCLUDES the 2nd Amendment and the laws passed by the Colorado legislature are a violation of the 2nd Amendment.  Governments have a duty to follow the amendments, too.

    Parent
    Yes, but there is something missing here (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 12:32:40 PM EST
    "Following the law" also includes the First Amendment:
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    The Fourth Amendment:
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    And the Fifth Amendment:
    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    What Redwolf was suggesting is a clear violation of all three.  Donald was trying to point out that the Second Amendment is not the only part of the Constitution, and we cannot just sweep people up and lock them away because of fears of what that person might do.  You missed his point entirely.


    Parent

    Yeah, but (none / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 07:24:14 AM EST
    just think how good these useless laws made some people feel....

    I mean really. Have you no heart?

    Bedsides they let some politicians posture and act like they had solved a problem when in realty they hadn't fixed a thing and are not capable of doing so.

    Parent

    While I agree (none / 0) (#50)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 07:02:37 PM EST
    that there should be much better and more accessible mental health help, are you seriously suggesting that people should be locked up because a psychologist says that they may be homicidal?  Where do you draw the line?
    I sincerely hope that you are never in a position of going to a counselor, expressing extreme anger or threats about something, and then getting locked up because of what you said.  This is not the way this country works.  While a few of these horrible incidents might (or might not)  have been prevented, I could  foresee a whole lot of people who are not a "clear and present danger" being locked up because of what they have said or fantasized.
    I would not want to live in the country that you seem to be advocating.


    Parent
    It's Unfortunate That Out-of State... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 10:34:41 AM EST
    ...money is may be deciding elections, first it was Wisconsin, now Colorado.  It would be nice if that was banned.  

    $600,000 is a ridiculous amount of money to spend to 'ensure' the will of the people is recognized, or rather the will of the people is overturned to the new will of the people.

    Maybe Colorado voters don't want gun control or maybe not, we will never know because money has tainted the voting process once again.

    It surely will influence how future representatives vote in their own states.

    Considering that the opponents of the recall (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by scribe on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 11:03:50 AM EST
    led by personal checks from Bloomberg ($350k), primus inter pares, and another billionaire from L.A. (about $250k) and DailyKos(bragging in emails about their funraising prowess and pleading for more) outspent (total, about $3 mil) the proponents of the recall (<$500k total) by something on the order of 6-1, the losers have nothing to complain about on the issue of "outside spending deciding state elections".

    Not one damn thing to complain about.

    The losers tried to buy the election and failed.

    Parent

    Out of state money (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by BillyJoe on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 12:27:13 AM EST
    I'm not sure you really read the story.  In the Colorado recall elections, out-of-state money accounted for about $3.2 million (latest figures) vs about only $500,000 or a little less.  The spending by the anti-recall money was about 7 times MORE than the spending by the pro-recall side.  The pro-recall group was OUTSPENT by 7-1.  Out-of-state money did NOT decide this election.  The voters were not going to let NY or Chicago or Washington, DC decide these recalls, they were going to decide for themselves.  About time.

    Parent
    Massachusetts Senate race.

    Parent
    Out of state money is bad (3.00 / 2) (#36)
    by scribe on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 02:52:00 PM EST
    only when it is supporting your opponent.

    Parent
    Best of all (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 12:24:21 PM EST
    LMFAO (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by scribe on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 01:05:01 PM EST
    at Bloomberg and his friends.

    Parent
    The notion that (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 01:23:50 PM EST
    ...money didn't buy this election gives me reason to hope for our future.

    Parent
    As Much As I Don't Like What Happened... (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 03:00:17 PM EST
    ...I gotta say I like that the out-of-state money was wasted money.  Here's to hoping future out-of -state money doesn't effect what the constituents want, no matter what they issues is.

    Democracy is appears to have beaten cash, that is cause for celebration in any election.

    Parent

    it is one thing (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by TeresaInPa on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 09:51:43 PM EST
    when someone like me sends 50 bucks to some congressional race in another state, a whole different dynamic when Bloomberg tries to use his billions to buy the country he wants. I am not a fan of his.  

    Parent
    I haven't heard (none / 0) (#1)
    by DebFrmHell on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 09:18:48 PM EST
    of Bernie Herpin before.  Was he a challenger in the last election?

    Sorry, I haven't followed this that closely.

    Watching it on facebook (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 10:17:55 PM EST
    I know you are what I consider "pro-gun" :). I have family members in El Paso Co hoping Morse eats it.  I am a Morse supporter though, even though I can no longer vote in El Paso Co.  Proud of all my family members voting in this no matter how they voted.  We just don't talk about it :). One of my family members who voted for Morse to be recalled posted something very adult.  It's close, and even if Morse isn't recalled the disgruntled constituents were heard.

    In the New York City mayoral race (none / 0) (#3)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 10:44:36 PM EST
    it looks like Bill deBlasio may win the Democratic primary with just enough votes to avoid a run-off.  Anthony Weiner and Eliot Spitzer go down (so to speak) in their races.  

    Morse had conceded (none / 0) (#4)
    by mensch on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 11:03:07 PM EST
    according to the Denver Post.

    Giron is out too (none / 0) (#5)
    by mensch on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 12:01:23 AM EST
    nt

    Parent
    In this recall election (none / 0) (#19)
    by christinep on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 10:32:54 AM EST
    there are some interesting factors ... relating to motivation.  (1) One practical aspect is that the recall results will not effect Democratic control of the State House or Senate. Among the kind of activist voters who show up for special elections, that fact was fairly well known.  (2) Voting-by-mail has become the norm over the past several years.  Democrats usually outnumber Repubs in mail-in votes.  Other than the old absentee voting arrangement, mail-in votes were not allowed in these races.

    Clearly, the gun groups were more motivated from the get-go on this one.  In Senatorial and Gubernatorial races, the electorate could be expected to be broader in interests as well as in demographics.

    There you go again (none / 0) (#21)
    by scribe on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 10:55:16 AM EST
    putting the "strident" in "strident".

    Well, if someone used one of my (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 11:30:51 AM EST
    comments to prove a point, I'd probably be strident, too, especially if it didn't say what someone said it did, given that a lot of people take those kinds of things at face value and never go to the linked comment to see what it says.

    Which is exactly the reason Jeralyn has been quite clear that she doesn't want commenters linking to other people's comments.

    All this being said, are you suggesting that people should not propose any kind of legislation that could have a negative political effect?  Or is it just this kind of legislation?

    I guess we should offer you congratulations on your hollow rhetorical victory, though...Yay?

    Parent

    I just deleted Scribe's comment (none / 0) (#32)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 02:15:25 PM EST
    cutting and pasting old comments of others. That's not allowed. Thanks to the reader who let me know (it wasn't Anne, so don't blame her.)

    Parent
    My original comment on this thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by scribe on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 02:49:22 PM EST
    (since deleted) referred back to my own comment of March 19, 2013 titled "Wrongheaded, stupid and guaranteeing electoral defeats for Democrats who voted for or signed this bill.

    In that comment, I noted some of the facts, shouted down or suppressed, about both Adam Lanza and the bills and concluded:

    Like TL said above, pass in haste, lament at length.  And these bills will not stop anyone from killing.

    In the deleted comment, I also suggested that if Hickenlooper wants to keep his job, he should undertake to repeal the bills he had rammed through - see and remedy the error of his ways.

    Several of the responses to that original comment derided me and my prediction of electoral defeats, in more or less bilious terms.  In the comment starting this thread, since deleted, I noted some of the more egregious responses to my original comment, that I had held my fire back then, and demanded apology or admission that I had been right.  Some of those responses to the original comment included derogating my prediction of electoral defeat for those who'd voted for or signed the gun control bills (to be fair, that commenter limited his response to Hickenlooper, though the recalls were then unanticipated), suggested that if the commenter went to law school, they ask for their money back, and mocked the idea of defeat by attempting sarcasm about pols not considering their career prospects before making a vote.

    I was right, they were wrong and, in the typical fashion of those who can't stand the idea of opinions or, worse, facts, disagreeing with or negativing theirs, started ... well, not ranting, but definitely neither apologizing nor admitting I was right.

    As it turns out, one of the better analyses of the election result, over at Volokh (and apparently written by someone with deep knowledge of Colorado politics) indicates that it was exactly the "pass in haste" that the now-ex-Senators indulged in that made their defeats certain.  They would brook neither opposition nor anyone with a different opinion and paid the price.

    Now, the folks who earned jabs from my pointed stick got them.  The folks who thought they could ram their gun control agenda got some comeuppance and a trip down to the unemployment office.  And I'm going to go out tonight and shoot a couple rounds of trap.

    Thank you for your attention and support.

    Parent

    You could have avoided this entire (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 02:58:20 PM EST
    sh!tshow you've created had you simply commented with, "neener, neener, neener."

    You're being kind of a sore winner, which isn't a good look on anyone.

    Parent

    No - "they" were not wrong (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 03:05:27 PM EST
    My comment had absolutely nothing to do with your recall prediction, but with AAA's strained interpretation of the proposed laws.

    So you may want to take your "pointed stick" and point it in another direction.  Hopefully, your aim on the trap range is much better.

    Parent

    Unsolicited advice... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 03:26:33 PM EST
    to all my friends...don't take it personal, and don't take it too seriously.

    If I've said it once I've said it one hundred times..."we're all just knuckleheads on a blog."

    Pardon the interruption to today's spat;)

    Parent

    Hey, Dog! (none / 0) (#43)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 03:48:05 PM EST
    Speak for yourself!    ;-)

    Parent
    Too late, by friend (none / 0) (#46)
    by sj on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 05:44:44 PM EST
    Much too late :)

    Parent
    err... (none / 0) (#48)
    by sj on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 06:26:43 PM EST
    ..."my" friend. Goes without saying... preview is also my friend.

    Parent
    Weird, huh? (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 02:45:59 PM EST
    People get "strident" when you completely distort the plain meaning of their posts and then demand an apology - posts which are not only discussing something else entirely but aren't even directed at you.

    Hard to imagine why ...

    Parent

    Interesting breakdown (none / 0) (#65)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 08:44:14 AM EST
    .

    Interesting breakdown of recall supporters at Slate.

    Women: There were many women behind this Recall movement, beginning when the gun control bills were heard in the State Legislature. A new radio ad out in the final weekend of the election featured Kimberly Weeks, a victim of rape, who testified in the State Legislature and took Senator John Morse to task on why she would be robbed of her right to defend herself.

    ...

     Blue collar: 3 of the 3 Founders of the Pueblo Recall are blue collar workers.  2 of them are plumbers and 1 is an electrician.

    ...