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Sunday Night Open Thread: Breaking Bad

The second to last Breaking Bad is tonight. If you are setting your DVR, add 15 minutes, it will run over.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Since I've never seen Breaking Bad (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Sun Sep 22, 2013 at 08:44:17 PM EST
    here are a few of my favorite and least favorite dresses at the Emmy's tonight.

    Favorites:
    Malin Ackerman
    Julie Bowen
    Kaley Cuoco
    Amy Poehler
    Sofia Vergara

    Least Favorites:
    Lena Dunham
    Julianne Hough
    Zosia Mamet

    I agree with (none / 0) (#3)
    by indy in sc on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 09:38:14 AM EST
    your list of faves.  I would Tina Fey and Kerry Washington to that list.

    Parent
    Originally wanted (none / 0) (#16)
    by CoralGables on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 02:54:29 PM EST
    to put up the same number of favs as least favs but that quickly became impossible. Certainly wouldn't hurt the list by replacing Julie Bowen with Kerry Washington. I struggled to cut it to 5. I put Tina on my neutral list because I'm biased and always like her.

    Parent
    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 136 (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Dadler on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 10:28:53 AM EST
    Dadler baseball doggeral published online (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Dadler on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 10:41:10 AM EST
    I am today's featured hardball "poet" on BARDBALL, a very cool site for sloppy odes to the Great American Pastime. My epic is called "When I Swiped a Seat from Chavez Ravine (Well, Sort of a Seat, but I Stole It Like Davey Lopes, I Tell Ya)." LINK

    Hopefully Mighty Dadler didn't strike out with this one. Say it ain't so, Dads.

    I wish I had known about this (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by DebFrmHell on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 12:07:39 PM EST
    site months ago!

    It ain't so. I loved it.  

    Being a Giants fan, I understand the romantics of baseball. Teams lift your spirits then crush you. 162 games, each one unique, the rollercoaster of life...

    Parent

    Thanks for the props (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 02:05:33 PM EST
    Submit one yourself, anyone can. Peace.

    Parent
    Mike Masnick over at TechDirt today... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Edger on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 08:42:57 PM EST
    NSA Complains That It Has To Spend Time Closing Leaks Rather Than Spying On Everyone
    NPR has a slightly bizarre article claiming that the effects of the Snowden leaks "aren't what he intended."  Except the article doesn't really suggest that at all.  It does focus on how the NSA is now spending a ton of time trying to figure out how to prevent future leaks, but that's to be expected.  It also talks about how the NSA needs to focus on that rather than on spying on everyone with a hint of "and you might all die because we can't do our jobs" added in for flavor.

    NSA folks in the article also complain that the bad guys might use other forms of communication, but they've been saying that all along, and that's a silly complaint. As noted, most actual terrorists were already pretty aware of what technologies to avoid.

    What the article really means by its title is that the NSA itself hasn't had a mass-epiphany that it should change its ways. But I don't think anyone ever believed that would happen, let alone Snowden. The effect that Snowden appears to have wanted was to have the public more aware of what the NSA was doing, hopefully leading to policy makers in Congress to fix the problems that have allowed the NSA to have gone so far overboard with its surveillance efforts. And that debate is happening, and considering how many bills have been introduced to reform the surveillance state, it appears that the debate is having an impact. How big an impact remains to be seen, but to argue that it's not having the effect he wanted is just wrong.

    Pretty cheesy whine. Business would be a piece of cake if the customers weren't such a-holes? I thought these guys were supposed to be pros? Maybe that's why they don't have real jobs? <waves to NSA guys @@>

    "Breaking Bad" broke big tonight. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Sep 22, 2013 at 10:58:52 PM EST
    It walked away with the award for best dramatic series, although in what has to be considered a surprise, Jeff Daniels of "The Newsroom" beat out co-favorites Brian Cranston and John Hamm as best lead actor in a drama.

    To no one's surprise, Claire Danes won best actress for "Homeland," and "Behind the Candelabra" took home eleven Emmys, including best film or miniseries, best director for Steven Soderbergh, and best actor for Michael Douglas.

    Aloha.

    Surprised about Daniels (none / 0) (#5)
    by Dadler on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 10:35:55 AM EST
    Not a particularly tough role in a fairly typical Aaron Sorkin show (I should add the disclaimer I am not a Sorkin fan in the least. The WEST WING, today, seems downright laughable to me in its faux idealistic delusions about politics. And, oh my lord, I almost forgot, what about THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT? Remember that piece of delusional DC porn.)

    Now that I think about it, I'm even MORE surprised that Daniels won.

    Parent

    I was (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by DebFrmHell on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 12:12:05 PM EST
    excited to get to see the Emmy's.  For over a decade I have worked Sunday nights.  OMGawd.  That was as Dull as Ditchwater...

    Parent
    From the initial reviews I read, ... (none / 0) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 01:28:26 PM EST
    ... it sounds like it was one of the more lackluster awards programs in recent memory, and even the always-engaging Neil Patrick Harris as ringmaster couldn't save it.

    Parent
    I enjoyed the Emmy's (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by CoralGables on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 02:01:13 PM EST
    But must admit the funniest moment for me was when they gave the nominees for Outstanding Drama Series:

    Breaking Bad
    Downton Abbey
    Game of Thrones
    House of Cards
    Homeland
    Mad Men

    And realized not only have I never seen a one of them, but haven't a clue what any of them are about.

    Parent

    At their collective core essence, ... (none / 0) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 02:16:20 PM EST
    ... they're reflect television at its very best. Each one of those shows is a very worthy nominee.

    Parent
    And only one of them... (none / 0) (#19)
    by unitron on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 05:03:45 PM EST
    ...is available over the air.

    Provided there's a PBS broadcast affiliate in your area.

    Parent

    True (none / 0) (#22)
    by CoralGables on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 07:13:10 PM EST
    but that doesn't explain why I never tuned into Downton Abby. I have no excuse for that one. None of the others ever reach my screen.

    Parent
    You've got about four months to catch up (none / 0) (#23)
    by shoephone on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 07:17:04 PM EST
    on Downtown before the next season begins. If you're a Maggie Smith fan then you really have no excuse. She's the main comic relief of the show.

    Parent
    I stayed away from Downton Abbey at first (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 12:33:20 PM EST
    It only made me have to catch up.

    Parent
    95% of Hawaii is wired for cable TV. (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 08:07:21 PM EST
    unitron: "And only one of them is available over the air."

    Our geography and terrain is such that receipt of television signals over the airwaves is always going to be problematic. TV signals are part of the FM spectrum of radio waves, and as such they tend to travel close to the surface of the earth and not rise very high, which is why stations require multiple relay antennae in order to transmit over rugged and mountainous terrain.

    For example, we live in a valley in east Oahu that's surrounded on three sides by vertical cliffs of 2,000 ft. and more, which effectively blocks any TV signals beamed from downtown Honolulu, only 10 miles to the west. So, were we still dependent on TV antennae as our forebears were during medieval times, we'd have to receive our reception from the 10,000 ft. peak of Haleakala over on Maui, which is 110 miles away. If there's a weather issue between us and Maui, the signal will be weak or non-existent.

    Cable's been a godsend for discerning TV viewers out here.

    Parent

    I never watched "The Newsroom." (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 02:09:46 PM EST
    That said, most critics have been saying for some time now that Jeff Daniels is the best thing about that show, and his award last night would underscore that opinion.

    The surprise for me is how John Hamm has been repeatedly bypassed as best actor for "Mad Men," having now been nominated as best actor at least four times for that show.

    I always felt Hamm should've also received an Oscar nomination for best supporting actor in Ben Affleck's 2010 film "The Town," as the FBI special agent who doggedly runs a ruthless gang of Boston bank robbers to earth.

    Like Jeff Daniels, who's been consistently good for three-plus decades in a wide variety of roles -- Terms of Endearment, Dumb and Dumber and Gettysburg, just to name a few -- without ever receiving much personal fanfare or recognition until "The Newsroom" debuted last year, Jon Hamm may prove to be one of those rare actors who are so naturally gifted at their craft that great performances by them are taken for granted.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Don't forget Daniels in "Something Wild" (none / 0) (#15)
    by shoephone on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 02:41:30 PM EST
    He really is a very versatile actor.

    Parent
    That was a memorable movie (none / 0) (#17)
    by MKS on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 03:14:53 PM EST
    Ray Liotta was terrifying.  And Jeff Daniels so believable and sympathetic.  Much different than the savvy news anchor in Newsroom.

    Parent
    When you need to cast a sleazy lowlife ... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 08:13:15 PM EST
    ... or corrupt cop, Ray Liotta's your go-to guy. Few actors can ooze insincerity and slime on the big screen as good as him.

    Parent
    Nobody comes close to Jon Voight, (none / 0) (#29)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 08:47:25 PM EST
    as Mickey Donovan in the Showtime series, "Ray Donovan;" talk about oozing sleaze - he just makes my skin crawl.

    It's a really, really dark show - I've enjoyed it, but sometimes it's just unrelievedly dark.  It puts the "funk" in "dysfunction."

    First season just ended, but if you can catch it, it's worth a look.

    Parent

    Have you heard Jon Voight talk politics ... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 10:36:08 PM EST
    ... in real life? What a right-wing crackpot! Given the company he keeps, I'm afraid oozing sleaze might well come naturally to him.

    :-(

    Parent

    So glad I'm caught up (none / 0) (#10)
    by Slado on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 01:53:36 PM EST
    Started BB early this year and made it a point to get caught up so I can watch the finale live.

    Last night was the first "live" episode I've watched and I did enjoy the anticipation.

    Can't wait for next week.   To say the chickens have come home to roost is putting it mildly.

    Congrats to Cassidy Lynn Campbell, ... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 04:06:00 PM EST
    ... who was elected as 2013 Homecoming Queen at Marina High School in Huntington Beach, CA. And further, kudos to the enlightened student body that elected her -- because Cassidy is transgender.

    "The highest result of education is tolerance."
    - Helen Keller, author and activist (1880-1968)

    Aloha.

    Manny Machado (Orioles' 3B) has what (none / 0) (#20)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 05:40:52 PM EST
    looks like a serious leg injury in today's game with the Rays; was listening in the car on the way home, and they said he was just screaming in pain...

    And then, in the bottom of the 7th, Alexi Casilla collides with Nick Markakis, and looked like he could have broken his neck; fortunately, he seemed to be okay and returned to 2B.  Meanwhile, the ball he caught, he lost in the collision, and the Rays ended up later in the inning scoring 2 runs to tie the game.

    I think Machado's injury has really shaken them up.  Casilla is out of the game now, too.

    Hate to see the season coming to an end this way - so many on this team are so talented.

    Heading into this season, I felt that ... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 08:23:13 PM EST
    ... the Orioles were arguably the most improved team in major league baseball, but perhaps still a year away from serious playoff contention. Like my Dodgers, they've exceeded my expectations, and have really hung in there. They're a fun team to watch, and when you finally say "Wait'll next year!" sometime during next week, it will actually mean something.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#21)
    by lentinel on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 06:00:12 PM EST
    really enjoy "Veep" - starring Julia Louis-Dreyfus.

    Anybody else?

    I dated a girl (none / 0) (#36)
    by Rupe on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 12:16:46 AM EST
    who worked for a Republican Senator...she said the staff dynamics were very familiar.  It was her favorite show.  Tony Hale is absolutely fabulous in that show.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#39)
    by lentinel on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 05:20:36 AM EST
    like the entire cast.

    And I think that Julia is just great!
    I would have to attribute the spark in that show to her.

    Parent

    sj (none / 0) (#26)
    by CoralGables on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 08:21:51 PM EST
    I don't know who Corbin Bleu is but if tonight is any indication, he'll still be around when lots of the others are gone on DWTS.

    Spoiler alert? (none / 0) (#31)
    by shoephone on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 09:38:02 PM EST
    Those of us on the west coast haven't started on tonight's episode yet!

    Parent
    Corbin Bleu is a former Disney kid. (none / 0) (#38)
    by caseyOR on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 02:40:27 AM EST
    He was in all those High School Musical movies a few years back. And, yes, he was very good tonight, as was Amber Riley. It will be interesting to see how they do as they move to the ballroom dances.

    Parent
    On the lighter side... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edger on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 09:25:29 PM EST
    This new century isn't all that impressive.

    A time machine would be nice.

    Broke. Bad. (none / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 10:46:15 PM EST
    Record U.S. Income Inequality Result of Economic Policies Benefiting the 1%...
    Interview with Richard Eskow, senior fellow with the group Campaign for America's Future, conducted by Scott Harris

    Although income inequality has been rising in the United States over the last 30 years, a new report from economists at the University of California at Berkeley, the Paris School of Economics and Oxford University have found that the wealth gap has now reached record levels. According to analysis of data from the Internal Revenue Service, the top 1 percent of earners in the U.S. pulled in 19.3 percent of total household income in 2012, the largest share for nation's wealthiest citizens in more than 100 years. The next highest share of wealth taken by the richest was recorded in 1927 at 18.7 percent, two years before the start of the Great Depression. According to the study, incomes among the top one percent rose by 31.4 percent between 2009 and 2012, while incomes for everyone else grew just 0.4 percent. The top ten percent of earners in the economy now control more than half of the nation's total income.

    Rather than bailing out wall street over the subprime mortgage mess they created for themselves and everyone else, the administration and the fed could instead have paid off every mortgage in the country, subprime or not, for less money (only about 12 trillion) than the 18-20 trillion they gave wall street as a reward for pillaging the economy. This could even have been done with tax credits thus avoiding any outlay of money from the fed.

    It would have restored the value behind the CDO mortgage backed securities that wall street got themselves into so much trouble with, and thus saved wall street while tremendously boosting the consumer driven economy as the money would have gone directly to the mortgage holding banks while at the same time effectively doubling the amount of bailout money by lifting an enormous debt weight from all those homeowners who would then have had an equivalent amount of disposable funds to spend any way they chose.

    The US consumer economy would be rockin' by now.

    Now, had this been done Obama and the Democrats would likely have lost all future donations from wall street and they'd be whining so loud we couldn't hear ourselves think - those donations of course were more important to Obama than bailing out homeowners instead of the party's corporate owners.

    Two months into his presidency, Obama summoned the titans of finance to the White House, where he told them, "my administration is the only thing standing between you and the pitchforks"
    [snip]
    ...in April 2011, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, chaired by Democrat Carl Levin, after a two-year inquiry, issued a fat report detailing several transactions, including Goldman's Abacus deal, that Levin and his staff believed should be investigated by Justice as possible crimes.
    [snip]
    Meanwhile, Obama's political operation continued to ask Wall Street for campaign money. A curious pattern developed. A Newsweek examination of campaign finance records shows that, in the weeks before and after last year's scathing Senate report, several Goldman executives and their families made large donations to Obama's Victory Fund and related entities, some of them maxing out at the highest individual donation allowed, $35,800, even though 2011 was an electoral off-year. Some of these executives were giving to Obama for the first time.


    Imaqine the screaming... (none / 0) (#37)
    by unitron on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 02:24:44 AM EST
    ...if the government paid off the mortgages of some people, especially those easily demonized as having bought more house than they could afford, while the fiscally prudent were rewarded by helping to finance the venture via their taxes.

    If, however, the government had bought up those mortgages (at less than 100 cents on the dollar, since the idea would be to avoid rewarding the lenders who created the mess) and renegotiated payments with the "homeowners" (i.e., the people who would otherwise get forclosed on and evicted)that were not overly generous to them, then maybe they could have slowed the plunge in house prices so that not nearly so many would have found themselves underwater.

    Of course the logistics would have made running WWII look easy, but the government would be paying so many lawyers, accountants, and other white collar workers that it should have kept the employment situation and overall economy in better shape, and we'd have actual houses that we could sell (in a market that would be better than if we hadn't intervened)if we didn't collect on the mortgage that we bought in the first place.

    Should have been at least as profitable as bailing out GM.

    Parent

    Nadezhda Tolokonnikova on Hunger Strike (none / 0) (#34)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 11:11:21 PM EST
    Pussy Riot's Nadezhda Tolokonnikova: Why I have gone on hunger strike
    In an open letter, the imprisoned Pussy Riot member explains why the brutal conditions at Penal Colony No 14 have led her to undertake a hunger strike in protest...

    "My brigade in the sewing shop works 16 to 17 hours a day. From 7.30am to 12.30am. At best, we get four hours of sleep a night. We have a day off once every month and a half."



    Happy... (none / 0) (#35)
    by desertswine on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 11:35:19 PM EST
    Autumn everybody, the season when the leaves fall from the trees.

    Conservatives Win Shutdown Fight (none / 0) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 08:18:00 AM EST
    Even if conservatives lose the battle to defund Obamacare -- and it's a foregone conclusion that they will -- they appear to have already won the real policy fight over a government shutdown fight, which was about spending.

    President Barack Obama and Democrats won't cave on Obamacare. But they're poised to cave when it comes to continuing spending at austerity levels ordered by sequestration -- across-the-board cuts put in place by a deal made in the 2011 shutdown threat. And in doing so, they'll surrender important leverage to replace the damaging spending cuts to the military along with programs like health care, education and scientific research.
    ...
    "By extending last year's post-sequester levels, Speaker Boehner is trying to lock those additional spending cuts into place and create a new baseline from which future negotiations must begin," read the CAP brief, written by President Neera Tanden and economic expert Michael Linden. "Having Congress adopt those levels in the short term is likely to make it easier for conservatives to keep those cuts in place for the long term." link



    So, in other words, the GOP, knowing (none / 0) (#42)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 08:52:37 AM EST
    it doesn't have the votes to kill Obamacare, and that Dems don't ever seem to be able to sustain a "no" beyond the first item on the chopping block, used it as a headfake/Trojan horse.

    How do the Dems not realize they've seen this show before?  Why do they act like this is some new tactic they are powerless to push back against, if not outright kill?

    Honestly, the Congress has become something that bears more resemblance to a 535-bed psychiatric hospital than it does to a functioning legislative body.

    Parent

    Ummm no (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 09:12:52 AM EST
    And thank goodness the person writing that silliness isn't in the Senate. It would be a sure fire way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    As it stands, the Dems want a clean Continuing Appropriations Resolution without any additions or subtractions. The reason being, if they were to try to add amendments in the Senate the spin would immediately be that the Dems would be responsible for the shutdown.

    The Dems are staying quiet and for good reason. Never help your opponent when they are shooting themselves in the foot.

    Parent

    Ummm yes (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 09:30:02 AM EST
    Real people are hurt by the these cuts and the future cuts that will be made. The Dems possibly "winning" the spin war means real people lose.

    While the Dems are supposedly letting the Republicans shoot themselves in the foot, let me repeat - real people are going to be hurt by these and future cuts. No big deal if people lose as long as the Republicans are held responsible by "some" people for the shutdown?  

    Meanwhile back at the ranch, Republicans shooting themselves in the foot will have little effect since the majority of the House districts are so rigged that the Republicans Reps. can do as they d@mn well please as long as they keep the most extreme elements in their party happy enough not to primary them.

    Parent

    Congratulations (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 09:50:07 AM EST
    Your approach would accomplish nothing and you'd also get the blame for the fallout resulting in even more Republicans in DC.


    Parent
    Congradulations (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 09:59:03 AM EST
    Your approach accomplishes a great deal.

    Your approach continues to allow Obama, the Dems and the Republicans to cut more and more out of domestic programs with little or no push back. Rather you pat them on back for how brilliant they are in their efforts.

    Your approach continues non-stop to deprive people of the services they need to survive while you count it as a "political win."


    Parent

    What your approach accomplishes (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 10:49:05 AM EST
    1. Lost Homes: More than $2 billion in cuts to Section 8 and other housing programs to freeze or shrink their programs and people are starting to lose their homes as a result. It is projected that 140,000 fewer households will get assistance this year.
    2. Less Support for Domestic Violence Victims: Shelters for domestic violence victims like those run by the Rhode Island Coalition Against Domestic Violence are cutting back on beds and services for the first time in their history, increasing the chances that women and children in the state will be victims of violence.
    3. Fewer Public Defenders and Worse Representation: Offices are being closed in 20 states, cases are being delayed and defendants are being forced to be represented by Criminal Justice Act panel attorneys, which some studies have found to be less effective than public defenders.
    4. Increased Homelessness: According to the Department of Housing and Urban Development, as many as 100,000 homeless and formerly homeless people will be removed from programs that have been proven to reduce homelessness.
    5. Kids Kicked Out of Head Start: As many as 70,000 children will lose their chance of participating in Head Start this year because of the cuts.
    6. Increasing Children's Exposure to Lead: Programs designed to lower children's risk of lead poisoning have faced cuts and could see more. Meanwhile lead poisoning is described by Think Progress as "one of the most important and overlooked national public health problems."
    7. Elderly Adults Not Being Able to Eat: Cuts to the Meals on Wheels program mean that local deliveries are dropping by hundreds of meals a day in places like Contra Costa County in California and Lamar County in Texas. The programs are being frozen or reduced and some of those who have lost the meals have no other means of getting daily meals.
    8. Less Job Search Assistance: Workforce training and support programs are expected to see cuts up to 25% of their budget, and organizations like SuperJobs Center in Cincinnati will suspend all training for the thousands of job seekers it serves.
    9. Loss of Unemployment Benefits: Already modest unemployment insurance payments will be cut or eliminated for millions of workers at a time when jobs are still scarce.

    You are "winning" by passing conservative agendas that even Bush could not get through Congress. Be sure to tell us how well we are winning the "spin war" when the cuts get even deeper in the next "win" for the Dems.

    Parent
    Lots of bluster (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 11:05:20 AM EST
    but all a CR does is pay the bills of a budget that has already been approved.

    You wanting to try and change the law to pass the CR sounds like you're channeling your inner Ted Cruz. There are lots of people that would rather lose a battle than win a war. You have plenty of right wing companionship on this one.

    Parent

    Interesting (none / 0) (#55)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 11:31:36 AM EST
    Looks like you have bad information on what the rules are regarding the CR. Others like Rep. Chris Van Hollen do not agree with you on what you could be done on the CR.

    Democrats will be pushing an alternative Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) filed last week. His bill would undo the sequester and set spending at $1.058 billion. It does so by eliminating a number of unpopular tax credits, a rallying cry Democrats feel is a winner compared with Republican calls for cuts.

    There are no rules binding the upper chamber to the House GOP's continuing resolution. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) could just as easily throw the House bill in the trash or bring to the Senate floor, watch it fail, and then throw it in the trash. The focus for months has been on the provisions related to defunding the federal health care law, but there are other elements of the House bill the Senate majority could reject, too.
    ...
    Senate Democrats could, for example, push for a spending measure that scraps the House GOP's Obamacare plan and simultaneously fixes the sequestration policy that's hurting the country. No one can defend the sequester -- it was designed, after all, to impose mindless hardship nationwide -- so some Senate Republicans might even go along. link

    Also, since you are championing the Republican budget it would appear that you are channeling both Ted Cruz and Paul Ryan.

    Parent

    Your link (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 12:09:31 PM EST
    doesn't go to your quote.

    Moreover, you're quoting something from Hollen that is over a week old and wasn't included in the House Resolution. But if Hollen can get 17 Republicans to agree with him in the House after a shutdown, go for it.

    Parent

    You are factually incorrect (none / 0) (#63)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 12:25:59 PM EST
    My link goes to the information in the second quote.

    The timing of the Van Hollen quote makes absolutely no difference to the point that your assertion that I am trying to change the law on what the Senate is allowed to do regarding the CR is factually incorrect. Whether or not there are enough votes in the House makes absolutelhy no difference to the point that the Dems in the Senate could under the rules return a bill without the sequester if they chose to do so. Once again:

    There are no rules binding the upper chamber to the House GOP's continuing resolution.


    Parent
    Okay, you're factually correct (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 12:52:32 PM EST
    Go ahead, change it in the Senate (just as they did in the House). If you don't have 17 GOP Reps in agreement with you, that guarantees a government shutdown and at least 800,000 layoffs and many others working without pay. Well played.

    Thankfully the Dems in office didn't attend the Gingrich school of politics.

    If Pelosi has a deal with Boehner to put it to a vote in the House and she has a guaranteed 17 GOP Reps in her pocket, go for it. If not, you are factually correct and politically clueless.

    Parent

    Long term effects on jobs (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 01:42:31 PM EST
    The Congressional Budget Office estimates that we're likely to have about one million fewer jobs in this country at this time next year because of the sequester. That's a huge self-inflicted wound.

    Federal employees were paid retroactively after the last shut down. Those who lose the opportunity of obtaining a job due to the sequester will not be paid any salary and will lose other benefits that they need to just survive.

    Parent

    First and foremost you don't know (none / 0) (#67)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 01:16:16 PM EST
    if there would be 17 Republican votes or not because the Dems never do anything other than give in to the Republican demands. And lowering the base line is definitely giving in to Republican demands.

    You and I both know that the numbers you are quoting even if a shut down occurred would be for short term rather than the long term, years rather than days, affect of lowering the base line and continuing to cut domestic programs.

    You want to "win" a spin war no matter how much it hurts people long term, years rather than days.. Seems you're only interested in the show and not the substance.

    If the Dems in the Senate was really interested in "winning" a spin war they could at least put the dollars for Meals on Wheels. Energy Heating Assistance, WIC and Head Start back in the CR and see how many Republicans are willing to vote to starve Granny and babies.

    Parent

    Very Subjunctive Wording (2.00 / 3) (#59)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 11:49:38 AM EST
    So much for "bad information".. your information does not seem likely as much as you wish it to be true.

    House GOP leadership's decision last week to back away from a continuing resolution from the floor amid Republican opposition raises the possibility that Speaker John Boehner might ultimately have to call on Democrats to avoid a government shutdown.

    The part you left out from your Politico link

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    Making stuff up again , squeaky (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 12:09:10 PM EST
    Neither qupte in my comment was sourced from a Politico link. The bad information that I referred to was that the Dems in the Senate could not change the CR if they chose to do so.

    Seems you are the one using Politico as your source, not me.

    Once again, I refuse to interact with you any further when you make stuff up. Now you can revert to your SOP of continuing to make numerous additional false claims about me and what I said. Knock yourself out.


    Parent

    Link? (none / 0) (#66)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 01:12:47 PM EST
    I googled your first paragraph, since you did not provide a link, and the Politico article came up.

    But your link is just as subjunctive as the politico link:

    the parts you left out:

    But if Democrats were prepared to play a little hardball, the story could take an interesting turn or two....

    But Senate Democrats could, if they wanted to, pursue a better deal for themselves -- and for the country....

    Senate Democrats could, for example, push for a spending measure that scraps the House GOP's Obamacare plan and simultaneously fixes the sequestration policy that's hurting the country. No one can defend the sequester -- it was designed, after all, to impose mindless hardship nationwide -- so some Senate Republicans might even go along....

    If the Senate minority balked and mounted a filibuster, they'd be responsible for a government shutdown. If Senate Republicans backed off, Democrats could pass a better bill ...

    And I repeat

    So much for "bad information".. your information does not seem likely as much as you wish it to be true.


    Parent
    Why, thank you squeaky for proving my point (none / 0) (#69)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 01:56:17 PM EST
    It is always nice to have the someone else flesh out my comments and further prove the point that I was making in my comment.

    But Senate Democrats could, if they wanted to, pursue a better deal for themselves -- and for the country....

    If the Senate minority balked and mounted a filibuster, they'd be responsible for a government shutdown. If Senate Republicans backed off, Democrats could pass a better bill ...

    Exactly.....CG stating that the Senate by law could not do this if they wanted to was bad information as CG acknowledged in an additional comment.

    I take it that the Senate minority in the quote referred to the Republicans and that according to the quote "they'd be responsible for a government shutdown."

    Parent

    Excuse me (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 02:17:10 PM EST
    Please show me where I said the Senate "couldn't". Don't resort to make believe.

    And I didn't acknowledge I was wrong because I never said such a thing. I only said you were both factually right and politically clueless

    Parent

    Hmmm (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 03:18:25 PM EST
    Politically clueless - maybe. You OTOH appear to be intentionally clueless on what affect these cuts have on the lives of men, women and children. You appear interested in the show and not the actual outcomes of these cuts and the impact that they have on people's lives.

    Politically clueless - maybe. But I don't think that cutting programs that people need to survive is acceptable just to win a few "possible" points in a spin war. The long term affects of these cuts will last for years and become even more draconian due to this decision while whatever "possible" political advantage that may be gained by adopting the Republican's agenda could very well evaporate in hours, days or weeks.

    You like to compare people who do not agree with Obama and you to Republicans yet it is you not I who advocate for and support each and every piece of Republican legislation that Obama has signed into law using the justification that the Dems who control the WH and the Senate have been forced to accept them. BS

    Once again, we have absolutely no idea what is possible because with the support and encouragement of "good" Democrats like you, the Democratic politicians continue to pass Republican legislation and agenda items.

    Parent

    The Poor Helpless Sufferers (1.00 / 5) (#73)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 03:36:36 PM EST
    Sounds like you can start a church with your rhetoric.. not far from talk of protecting the defenseless unborn against those cruel heartless women who have no care in the world.

    Painting those who you disagree with as cold,heartless, unfeeling, may get you a congregation of simpletons, but it is not a very effective way to argue your point, imo.

    THink of the children..  

    Parent

    Yes it really is about the poor suffering people (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 06:33:29 PM EST
    There are people who write much better than I do. I will let Hightower respond for me:

    Who are we? As a nation, as a people--how do our actions (as opposed to our ideals) define us?

    A society's response to poverty is one measure that speaks directly to its essential character. In particular, a wealthy society's nonchalant tolerance of poverty in its midst, the willingness of that society's leaders to disregard the spread of poverty, and the callous calculations by some that it is permissible and even profitable to denigrate those mired in poverty--these are three flashing indicators of a meltdown in our society's moral core.



    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 09:35:21 PM EST
    A very low form of argument. If you do not agree with me people will suffer (your opinion) and if that is the case you do not care about people.  

    Exponential BS...

    Parent

    Really? (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 08:18:39 PM EST
    Painting those who you disagree with as cold,heartless, unfeeling, may get you a congregation of simpletons, but it is not a very effective way to argue your point, imo.

    Would you say its more or less effective than rhetoric that relies on manufactured words, hyperbole and complete lack of logic?

    The Poor Helpless Sufferers - Sounds like you can start a church with your rhetoric.. not far from talk of protecting the defenseless unborn against those cruel heartless women who have no care in the world.


    Parent
    Hilarious (2.00 / 2) (#70)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 02:16:56 PM EST
    Using opinions of Steve Benen, from your link to prove that Steve Benen's opinion is correct is really funny.

    Good one.

    Parent

    Impact of baseline (none / 0) (#57)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 11:43:36 AM EST
    Understanding the dispute requires a bit of background. The Budget Control Act of 2011 established caps on how much the government could spend during a given fiscal year. In fiscal year 2013, that number was $1.043 trillion. In fiscal year 2014, which begins in October, that number will be $1.058 trillion.

    But sequestration effectively reduces those spending caps. In FY 2013, it lowered the $1.043 trillion spending cap to $988 billion. For FY 2014, it is set to decrease the $1.058 trillion spending cap to $967 billion.
    ...
    ...if sequestration is canceled down the road, the baselines will become important once again.

    House Republicans want to lower the baseline for the next fiscal year to $988 billion -- in other words, the spending cap in FY 2013 under sequestration -- rather than the $1.058 trillion agreed to under the Budget Control Act.



    Parent
    BTW, will the Dems actually (none / 0) (#49)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 09:50:15 AM EST
    "win" the spin war even while abandoning the poor to draconian cuts to programs that they need?

    Others are also adapt at conducting spin wars. Before all is said and done, people may be cheering for the Republicans to do anything in their power to defund Obamacare.

    An article published by Forbes claiming that Obamacare will increase health care costs by $7,450 for a typical family of four is spreading like wildfire across the internet, but causing eye rolls from economists across the country.
    ...
    To translate that number to a "typical American family," Conover took "the latest year-by-year projections, divided by the projected U.S. population to determine the added amount per person," multiplied that result by four and voila: Obamacare will add $7,450 to average health spending for a family of four between 2014 and 2022! link

    The claim is "spreading like wildfire across the internet" and if the past is any indication, an extremely large number of people will never know that the information is not accurate, will continue to spread the information and will believe it to their dying day.

    Parent

    What's in store? (none / 0) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 08:24:49 AM EST
    House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) told a fundraiser in August that "we're not going to increase the debt limit without cuts and reforms" on "the mandatory side" of the ledger, impacting programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. link


    And you thought your day was bad? (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 08:59:05 AM EST
    Watch this rock slide off a mountain onto a road full of cars in Taiwan.

    Son of a Beotch... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by DebFrmHell on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 10:01:01 AM EST
    That big boulder and the white car...  That is a "I have to change my panties" moment if ever there was.

    Parent
    No kidding. (none / 0) (#52)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 10:03:23 AM EST
    Although if it had landed on the car I guess it probably wouldn't have hurt very long?

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    Saw That Last Week... (none / 0) (#56)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 11:37:03 AM EST
    Eeeesh. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 12:04:43 PM EST
    Being still alive after that would make your day, wouldn't it!

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    Rouhani (none / 0) (#45)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 09:25:48 AM EST
    Is Obama going to meet Iran's democratically elected president today ?

    These guys... they are like highschoolers with their bravado and putting some form of mojo into handshakes and stares.

    Rouhani has said publicly he wants to work with the US, IMO there isn't one GD good reason for Obama not to meet with him beyond some idiotic sense of posturing.

    But I am guessing he won't because the idiot brigade would view it as a sign of weakness and Obama seems to really care what the people who hate him think.

    Moved to... (none / 0) (#46)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 09:29:10 AM EST
    ....Tuesday Open Thread

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    At this point you'd think (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 11:47:35 AM EST
    he'd have gotten it through his thick skull that they're going to hate him no matter what he does..

    As I've said before if he walked on water or turned water into wine they'd accuse him promoting alcoholism and unsafe water sports.

    Parent