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Friday Open Thread

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This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Good news from Ferguson: (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 12:48:45 PM EST
    More than 3,000 people have registered to vote in Ferguson, Mo., since the death of Michael Brown -- a surge in interest that may mean the city of 21,000 people is ready for a change.


    And, let's hope (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by NYShooter on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 12:58:43 PM EST
    they remember the lesson of Kwame Kilpatrick, and, elect representatives who will truly represent the citizens, not themselves.

    87 yesterday 57 today (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:05:10 PM EST
    low 30s tonight.  The Huskies are very happy.

    You're (none / 0) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:34:04 PM EST
    already getting freezing temps the first of October?


    Parent
    34 (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:37:07 PM EST
    not taking the plants in.   Going to be 80 again in a few days

    Parent
    air is 88.5 here and water is 89.8 degrees (none / 0) (#56)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:41:37 PM EST
    and that's in the ocean.  the heat index is 102 at 5:30 pm today.

    Parent
    a boiled egg is hard to beat... (none / 0) (#57)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:43:35 PM EST
    In a couple of months (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:48:22 PM EST
    I may be jealous.  Right now 57 is just fine.   I think the really hot stuff is over here.  Looking at long range it doesn't seem to go over high 70 after next week.  

    Parent
    At 12:35 p.m. HST, ... (none / 0) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 05:42:23 PM EST
    ... it's 86 in east Honolulu, and very sultry and humid with little or no wind to cool things off. We're expecting a lot of rain later this evening and into tomorrow. This year has been an exceptionally wet one. The leeward mountains, which usually turn a golden brown color during the summer months, have instead remained bright green throughout, which I rarely if ever see.

    Also, September and the first part of October is generally the hottest time of the year in the islands, and it's the only time of year when I wish we had air conditioning.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Very jealous. I detect no fall chill here yet (none / 0) (#99)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:43:20 PM EST
    I think it is supposed to go down to the 60s at night sometime this weekend. I'll believe it when I can open the windows.

    Parent
    Last night the temp (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:50:13 PM EST
    dropped about 30 degrees in about an hour.

    Parent
    Since the Supreme Court (none / 0) (#1)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 12:29:01 PM EST
    opens its term on Monday, here's a preview of one of the first arguments - a Fourth Amendment case.

    How many brake lights need to be working on your car?

    the batteries were given out free of charge (none / 0) (#11)
    by fishcamp on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 02:09:46 PM EST
    Self Defense claim in Florida shooting (none / 0) (#3)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 12:55:41 PM EST
    that was of interest to many TL'rs in the wake of the Zimmerman case, unconvincing to jury, shooter (white guy) convicted of murder (of black guy).

    Thank goodness (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Slado on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 01:37:51 PM EST
    Having attended HS in Jacksonville and used the very gas station the incident took place in this case was very disturbing.

    I guess everyone deserves a defense but this guy deserved to go to jail.  

    Hard to claim self defense when you're hassling young men at a gas station about their music.

    Also hard to claim self defense in a freaking gas station.   All he had to do was walk away if the guy was truly threatening him.   Instead he climbed into his car to get a gun.   If he was so scared how did he have time do to that?

    Good riddance.

    Parent

    It's also hard to claim self-defense ... (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 02:01:01 PM EST
    ... when you pump ten shots into the vehicle whose occupants offended you with their loud hip-hop music and then flee the scene afterward, compelling the local authorities to have to hunt you down over the next few days.

    Parent
    Indeed (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:54:58 PM EST
    still incredibly that was the second trial.  The first jury deadlocked.

    Parent
    All i can (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:23:54 PM EST
    say is I hope it makes those conceal carry guys think a lot more before yanking out their gun.

    We've already had a lot of problems here in GA because of the concealed carry law--more crime.

    I have a mutual friend with Jordan Davis's mother. She was so torn up about the first verdict but is glad that the trial is finally done. Of course, in the end Jordan is still gone and she'll never get over that. He was a straight A student with a bright future ahead of him.

    Parent

    We've already had a lot of problems here in GA because of the concealed carry law--more crime.


    Parent
    Yeah, I was glad for this verdict too (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:46:24 PM EST
    Worth noting that he had already been convicted last year on lesser charges that could put him in prison for decades. This was a retrial on the murder one because the previous jury hung on that charge. So he was not going to get off scot-free even if he had not been convicted of the murder one. Still, it seems so obvious to me that I am glad the jury saw it that way too.

    Parent
    What I do not understand, tho (2.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Amiss on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 11:31:13 PM EST
    Is that white people are afraid of black teen-age boys playing music so loud riding all over town is deemed okay. We moved here a few years ago and these "fine, self-righteous teen-agents" do as they please, when they please and have no consideration whatsoever for others. They appear to feel that they and their groups alone are the only citizens with rights. I can not wait to get out out of this town.
    They drive through neighborhoods with music so loud our front door knob rattles. These are NOT fine upstanding young men, in general.

    Parent
    This comment is puzzling. Lots of teenagers (5.00 / 4) (#146)
    by oculus on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 08:44:43 PM EST
    are thoughtless and loud. But other than these characteristics, how might one conclude they are not " fine, upstanding" youths?

    Parent
    Who said it was "okay"? (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by Yman on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 05:16:39 PM EST
    No one.

    Give them a citation for violating a "noise ordinance".  Other than that, it's not a crime - and certainly not a capital crime - to fail to be "fine, upstanding young men", whatever your interpretation of that is.

    Parent

    I thought he (Dunn) was in his car... (none / 0) (#133)
    by unitron on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 03:50:08 PM EST
    ...the entire time, and only reached over to pull his gun from the glove box?

    Parent
    Ebola II (none / 0) (#5)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 01:10:57 PM EST
    CDC Director Doubles Down on Lack of Flight Restrictions From Ebola Stricken Countries

    While the CDC says the other passengers on the same planes as Duncan were at no risk of catching the disease because he wasn't showing symptoms, the agency and airline are frantically trying to track down all of the passengers who were on those planes...for some reason.

    In other news Saudi Arabia has barred pilgrims from Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea from the Haj due to Ebola concerns.

    Glad I live a long way from Texas... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 02:03:52 PM EST
    Here's a pic of a couple of poor unknowing guys cleaning up the infected man's vomitus.

    They're using a power washer.  In other words, they've aerosolized the virus particles, at least the particles that haven't run down the drain, or splashed onto the lawn (where children play) or onto those cars, or onto that woman standing nearby.

    Parent

    It's not. Actually (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:33:05 PM EST
    I'm just linking to the site because there is more than one post on this subject.

    I would caution against unverified infowars information in general

    Parent

    Of course this is a very unpredictable (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by ZtoA on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 02:05:20 PM EST
    and possibly mutable disease and who knows if it could be transmitted before symptoms in the future.

    Parent
    Wiki has a primer on the ZMAPP (none / 0) (#12)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 02:16:03 PM EST
    production process, here.  Unfortunately, it's production depends on the life cycle of a plant.

    Very clever stuff they're doing, but it remains experimental. Low, low volume, and for now, slow.

    Parent

    More on the ZMAPP supply, or lack thereof (none / 0) (#83)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 06:42:28 PM EST
    here.

    The ZMapp serum was used to treat two American missionaries who recovered from Ebola, but is not available for the Dallas man currently fighting the disease as the limited supplies made for clinical trials ran out in August.

    Scientists acknowledge that despite the new efforts, they may not be able to produce more than a few hundred treatment courses by early next spring.


    Parent
    Did you see this? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 02:08:52 PM EST
    Yesterday's helpful Reuters headline, Prescription for avoiding Ebola airport screening: ibuprofen

    I'm on google news; this headline was repeated everywhere, in case somebody hadn't already figured it out.  Gotta love the media.

    Parent

    Here's how you can (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:36:22 PM EST
    and can't get Ebola

    The bottom line: Ebola is difficult to catch

    As you'll probably have noted, Ebola isn't very easy to transmit. The scenarios under which it spreads are very specific. And Ebola doesn't spread quickly, either. A mathematical epidemiologist who studies Ebola wrote in the Washington Post, "The good news is that Ebola has a lower reproductive rate than measles in the pre-vaccination days or the Spanish flu." He found that each Ebola case produces between 1.3 and 1.8 secondary cases. That means an Ebola victim usually only infects about one other person. Compare that with measles, which creates 17 secondary cases.

    If you do the math, that means a single case in the US could lead to one or two others, but since we have robust public health measures here, it probably won't go further than that. Compare that to West Africa, which is now dealing with upwards of 6,000 cases in a completely broken health system. That's where experts say the worry about Ebola should be placed.



    Parent
    You are no fun at all (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:41:02 PM EST
    just when the hysteria was getting good.

    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#22)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:41:49 PM EST
    Hate to be Debbie Downer on a Friday.

    Parent
    Like cleaning up (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:48:21 PM EST
    ebola vomitus.  It's a dirty job but someone's got to do it.

    Parent
    I figure it's my turn around here (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:49:08 PM EST
    A bicycle can't stand alone; (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by fishcamp on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 01:18:40 PM EST
    it's just two tired.

    Parent
    Forget it - I tried, but people just (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:56:16 PM EST
    want to be hysterical, I guess.

    Parent
    Who doesn't like hysteria (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:07:55 PM EST
    i try to keep it to things that matter.

    Like great TV.

    Parent

    I'm pro hysteria if it means (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:09:54 PM EST
    Red state voters might decide everyone needs healthcare

    Parent
    You're joking right (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:11:41 PM EST
    internment camps maybe.  

    Parent
    They are always one step ahead (none / 0) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:12:54 PM EST
    Of my schemes

    Parent
    Josh might like this (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:15:03 PM EST
    Yes, fortunately (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 06:01:19 PM EST
    the Ebola virus causes an infectious disease that is relatively difficult to transmit.  It is better considered a communicable disease  than a contagious one.  Transmission is through people, foods, contaminated substances-- relying on close (rather than casual) contact.  Body fluids, blood, feces, semen are transmissive candidates.

    Other communicable diseases of similar transmission are Herpes, HIV and ring worm.  The Hollywood-style hemorrhages associated with Ebola are less likely to cause morbidity or mortality than organ failure (e.g. kidney) or blood clots (concentrated blood)--stemming from dehydration (severe (vomiting, diarrhea).

    Public health/hygiene standards and symptomatic and palliative treatment (e.g., IV fluids, fever attenuation) readily available in the US should relieve worries and lessen the likelihood of a stampede by a nation of fraidy cats.

    Nigeria, using public health measures, including epidemiology, has narrowed the risks and reduced the  incidence of the disease substantially in comparison to other African nations.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 06:06:24 PM EST
    more should be said about why it was spreading so badly in Africa.  No sanitation or protection and customs that they had a really hard time of countering that include handling and even kissing the dead.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 06:06:25 PM EST
    more should be said about why it was spreading so badly in Africa.  No sanitation or protection and customs that they had a really hard time of countering that include handling and even kissing the dead.

    Parent
    Excellent link, jb (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 06:24:25 PM EST
    And here's another one.
    This whole hysteria about Ebola is driving Mr. Zorba, who is a molecular virologist, absolutely nuts.  So many of our friends and neighbors have approached him, very nervously, to ask about the dangers of catching Ebola.
    He keeps telling them not to worry, but it doesn't seem to sink in.

    Parent
    Well, then ask him about the (none / 0) (#86)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 07:14:01 PM EST
    following piece from a couple of University of Illinois infectious disease specialists who point out that much of the research (cited by our resident PollyAnnas) was done in the '40s and '50s and "reflects an incorrect and outmoded understanding of infectious aerosols, which has been institutionalized in policies, language, culture, and approaches to infection control."

    As on NPR, I'll take my answer off the air.

    Parent

    If you want to contribute to the hysteria, (none / 0) (#91)
    by Zorba on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:01:06 PM EST
    Go right ahead.
    Rather than reading all the current scientific thinking about Ebola, you want to cite one paper.
    Well, goodie for you.  In the meantime, lock yourself in your home and get out the plastic sheeting and duct tape to seal yourself off from the world and all the scary germs out there.


    Parent
    "all the current scientific thinking" (none / 0) (#112)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 09:52:35 PM EST
    That's a hoot.  That "one paper" I cited is one more than anyone else has cited.  All I've seen here are the same predigested and redigested popularizations, so derivative they reek.  If it were another subject you'd all be laughing at the credulity of anyone calling it reporting.

    Parent
    My takeaway from that article is (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 10:42:18 PM EST
    that if you are a health care worker, caring for and treating patients suspected to be infected or actively infected with Ebola, it may not be unreasonable to replace face masks with respirators - even though there is no general agreement or disagreement as to whether the virus can be aerosolized and transmitted through the air.

    But we are talking about people whose exposure is orders of magnitude higher than the average person not actively engaged in treating people with Ebola.

    It has been pointed out that Ebola has a much, much lower transmission rate than HIV, SARS, mumps and measles, so why the hysteria?  

    I don't know why you don't want to believe that a person is not able to transmit Ebola unless and until he or she is symptomatic.  I don't know why you don't want to believe that contracting the virus is not likely unless you have been directly exposed to the body fluids - semen, blood, vomit, breast milk, saliva - of a symptomatic person: think HIV, not rhinovirus or seasonal influenza.  Think about this: in an area of the world where medical care is limited and infection control measures are less-than-ideal, Ebola has not spread like wildfire - it has not infected or killed millions, not even hundreds of thousands - and that's because it's not as contagious as you seem to be afraid it is.  If aerosolized transmission were as likely as you seem to think the article's authors were warning (and I don't believe that's what they were saying - pretty sure they said numerous times that while it may be possible, they don't know for sure that it is), why is the infection rate so low as a percentage of the population?

    Several things are going to happen as a result of all this unnecessary panic:  people will stream to emergency rooms in droves, afraid they have been exposed to Ebola because someone sneezed near them, and other people who need medical care for other reasons will avoid doctors' offices and ERs out of fear they will get Ebola there.  No good is going to come from either of these things.

    Were you this panicked about SARS?  What about MERS?  Do you get a flu shot?

    The media loves them a crisis, and will invent one if they can - they do it all the time. Please be smarter than to fall for it.

    Parent

    I think it is the (2.00 / 1) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 10:59:45 PM EST
    "not likely" thingee that gets people's attention.

    Parent
    I agree that (none / 0) (#128)
    by KeysDan on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 10:18:02 AM EST
    the work of Professors Brosseau and Jones are a much needed contribution to an area of infectious disease that needs study.   These scholars, at this point, provide a basis for an abundance of caution, especially in health care settings.  In addition, they have the specific recommendation for the use of respirators rather than face masks by health care workers.

    However, Dr. Brosseau and Dr. Jones do not dismiss the previous work in this area, but attempt to build upon it based on particle size technologic advances.    The common sense observation that the potential for transmission via inhalation can't be ruled out, especially in health care settings, is bolstered by the professors  belief that there is scientific and epidemiological evidence for that potential.   Bodily fluids, however, remain the most likely source to be aerosolized and inhaled, bringing the larger potential and greater risk back to bodily fluids, itself.  

    Parent

    Lucky for you two, you can't get Ebola (none / 0) (#72)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 05:47:58 PM EST
    from confirmation bias.

    Here's an another opinion, not from a no-name in the pajama media, but Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, writing in the New York Times.

    In 2012, a team of Canadian researchers proved that Ebola Zaire, the same virus that is causing the West Africa outbreak, could be transmitted by the respiratory route from pigs to monkeys, both of whose lungs are very similar to those of humans.



    Parent
    As the piece notes (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 05:56:56 PM EST
    this is not new information.  No one is suggesting this is not a very dangerous situation and should be taken seriously.  
    That does not excuse the posting of what is clearly wrong and needlessly inflammatory information.

    Parent
    Adding (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 06:03:06 PM EST
    hatd to blame anyone.  Watching tv for a few minutes I am amazed at the hysteria being pumped out on the airwaves.  Guest after guest saying calm down, don't panic, host after host, BUT BUT BUT WHAT IF, WHAT IF BUT BUT....

    Parent
    And then there is this: (none / 0) (#18)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:38:05 PM EST
    The price of ibuprofen (none / 0) (#24)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:44:00 PM EST
    just went up in West Africa as of yesterday.

    Parent
    Sounds like (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:45:02 PM EST
    an investment opportunity

    Parent
    Sssshhhh -- (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:58:37 PM EST
    Aspirin works just as well if not better at bringing down a fever.

    Parent
    It's so (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:26:01 PM EST
    ironic that this is happening in Texas under Rick Perry's nose.

    Parent
    I wonder if we should (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:33:38 PM EST
    close their borders? Send in the NG to protect the rest of us?

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:44:09 PM EST
    one of those 5s is not like the other one

    Parent
    Oh dear . . . (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 05:46:19 PM EST
    did I need a snark tag?!

    Parent
    Colbert has a plan (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:29:23 PM EST
    Amazing (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:39:34 PM EST
    Whocaresistan.  Pfffft

    Parent
    Okay, let's get some perspective here. (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:44:56 PM EST
    First of all, I would ask that in the future you please find better sources for your information that the highly partisan Townhall.com. The moment I opened your link, I was immediately assaulted with a full-screen banner which screamed at me, "Tell Congress we want the truth about BENGHAZI!!" Off-putting, to say the least.

    Honestly, I think most people here at TL would have probably clicked it off immediately and not bothered with the accompanying article in question. But while I read that article, I have to take very serious issue with Townhall.com's contention that Thomas Duncan, "knowing he was infected [with Ebola], lied on a medical form before hopping a flight back."

    Speaking from personal experience, The Spouse and I have been to Africa several times, and we've never had to fill out a medical disclosure form before boarding our return flight home. The only health-related communications we received from the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services were prior to our departure and via our tour company, in which we were very strongly urged to get ourselves vaccinated against both typhoid and malaria before traveling to Africa. That's it.

    As for Thomas Duncan, while he knew he had probably been exposed to the Ebola virus in Liberia, he obviously had no clue that he was actually infected until he was finally diagnosed with the illness in Dallas, after he presented himself to the hospital emergency room some six days after his arrival.

    So, with regards to Duncan having "lied on a medical form," unless we're presented with hard evidence otherwise -- i.e., the actual "medical form" he supposedly filled out -- I'd offer that this is nothing but a bunch of right-wing bull$H!T, cravenly served up as red meat by the jackasses at Townhall.com for their gullible audience, who are hardly world-wise and thus really don't know any better. And shame on them for doing that.

    Finally, and this is important, it should be noted that the United States doesn't presently have any nonstop or direct flights to and from any of those three stricken countries of Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia.

    In fact, the only U.S. carrier presently serving the African continent from the United States is Delta Air Lines, with nonstop flights from Atlanta and New York-JFK to Dakar (Senegal), Accra (Ghana), Lagos (Nigeria) and Johannesburg (South Africa).

    The only African airlines that fly nonstop or direct to the U.S. are Egyptair (nonstop to JFK from Cairo), Royal Air Moroc (direct to JFK from Rabat and Casablanca via Europe), Ethiopian (to Washington-Dulles from Addis Ababa via Europe), and South African Airways (nonstop to JFK from Johannesburg and Dakar).

    To get to and from the rest of Africa, you generally have to go through Europe, via European-flagged carriers such as British Airways, KLM, Swiss, Air France and Lufthansa. And that's when you'll see the active vestiges of colonialism still in place, because most African countries are simply too poor to have their own officially-flagged international air carriers, and are highly dependent upon the European carriers for purposes of air travel, particularly British Airways and KLM.

    (And to be perfectly frank, I would hardly recommend flying on the few African-flagged carriers there are, simply out of safety and health considerations -- unless for nostalgia's sake, you desire to fly on an old B-707, DC-7 or Soviet-made Tupelov aircraft. The exception is South African Airways, which is actually a very good airline with highly-rated service and a modern Airbus fleet.)

    When we went to east Africa 20 years ago, we flew KLM from LAX to Amsterdam-Schipol to Dar es Salaam in Tanzania. When we traveled to South Africa several years ago, we flew on Hawaiian Airlines to LAX and then Delta to and from Johannesburg via Atlanta. For all other flights throughout the sub-continent region, we flew on British Airways, which maintains active hubs in both Johannesburg and Cape Town and serves all of southern Africa from those two ports of entry.

    (Hawaiian Airlines' mileage program has a reciprocal agreement with both Delta and British Airways, so that's why we flew on them.)

    Aloha.

    Parent

    And most importantly (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:48:21 PM EST
    From my link above:

    You can't get Ebola from someone who is not already sick. The virus only turns up in people's bodily fluids after a person starts to feel ill, and only then can they spread it to another person.

    So, if Mr. Duncan wasn't sick until days later when he went to the hospital, then no one on the plane with him would have to worry.

    Parent

    And "infowars" (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:46:03 PM EST
    Liberia authorities said Thursday that Thomas Eric Duncan, the first person diagnosed on U.S. soil with Ebola, would be prosecuted for lying on a health form required for travelers departing the country.


    Parent
    That's a Liberian government form, ... (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:23:17 PM EST
    ... and not a U.S. form as Townhall.com implied through omission in its article. As I said, the U.S. at present does not require incoming passengers from Africa to fill out any medical forms.

    But the bottom line here is that while Duncan was undoubtedly aware that he had been probably exposed to the Ebola virus by playing good Samaritan to a pregnant neighbor, he did not know he had actually been infected until nearly a week after his arrival in the United States. And Townhall.com was wrong to state otherwise, and thus further fan the flames of ignorance and hysteria.

    Further, as other countries -- particularly in Europe -- presently seek to impose severe restrictions on travel to and from the aforementioned three countries of Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone, similar actions by the U.S. government might well be redundant, since as I noted, direct air travel between the U.S. and the African continent is actually quite limited. Generally, to get to most of Africa from our country and vice versa, you have to first go through Europe. And the Europeans are very strict about health and immigration matters at their international airports, even if you are merely changing planes to go someplace else.

    From my own experience, I would note that South Africa actively screens the body temperature of all incoming international travelers -- including those arriving on nonstop flights from the United States -- with thermal body scanners as they deplane and go through customs in Johannesburg and Cape Town. Those passengers who are running a higher than normal temperature are asked to step aside for further questioning and examination by health officials.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Gawd, the answer of a politician. (2.00 / 2) (#64)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 05:06:29 PM EST
    He did lie on a med form, like Townhall and dozens of other websites confirm.

    You said nothing about a US form in your rant, so was that a lie of omission on your part?

    You could just man-up about it.

    Parent

    And maybe you could actually consider ... (4.50 / 2) (#66)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 05:24:18 PM EST
    ... what I said within its entire context, in which I was clearly speaking about U.S. requirements for travel to and from Africa.

    But no, you can't do that, can you! Far better instead that you deliberately choose to cherry-pick an individual statement out of an entire post, with the obvious intent of starting a fight. That way, you can take great umbrage and demand satisfaction, as a means of demonstrating to everyone here your own moral superiority.

    Your childishly adolescent behavior in that regard has become both highly predictable and numbingly tedious. Bore. Bore. Bore.

    In short -- grow up.

    Parent

    enough sniping (none / 0) (#79)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 06:18:59 PM EST
    between commenters. No more please.

    Parent
    Aabsolutely (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:52:44 PM EST
    good idea.  They should do that here for him not telling doctors on his first visit to the doctor.

    Parent
    ... Duncan did disclose that he had been to Liberia and thus may have been exposed to the Ebola virus, on his first visit to the hospital emergency room in Texas. But the media has jumped the gun on so many things with this story, it might well be that he didn't say anything.

    Parent
    Kos (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:34:10 PM EST
    So (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:51:28 PM EST
    shorter version.  Early reporting was wrong.  The big screw up seems to be the nurse.   Which had nothing, I'm sure, to do with the fact that that same emergency room is the only access to healthcare for half of TX and is overworked and unstaffed.   She will probably be the goat.

    Parent
    Pretty sure he did not (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:31:17 PM EST
    a big deal was being made about the fact that not only did he not volunteer the information but they did not ask.   Liberia possibly.  Carrying a dead person no.

    Parent
    Agreed. (2.00 / 1) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:59:23 PM EST
    CNN is also reporting about the med form.

    DFH's apology and retraction should be posted soon, I would expect.

    So, with regards to Duncan having "lied on a medical form," unless we're presented with hard evidence otherwise -- i.e., the actual "medical form" he supposedly filled out -- I'd offer that this is nothing but a bunch of right-wing bull$H!T, cravenly served up as red meat by the jackasses at Townhall.com for their gullible audience, who are hardly world-wise and thus really don't know any better. And shame on them for doing that.


    Parent
    Thank you for that, Donald (none / 0) (#40)
    by ZtoA on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:59:50 PM EST
    Most people are ignorant of the facts about (none / 0) (#82)
    by ZtoA on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 06:28:27 PM EST
    Ebola, and how it is transmitted, conditions in Africa, travel restrictions and so on. I know I was before reading this thread. I haven't been listening to or watching the news in the last week so I don't know about the hysteria.

    Parent
    Brussels (none / 0) (#41)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:03:00 PM EST
    He flew from Liberia to Brussels to Dullas to Dallas. That is how he got here.

    Parent
    Yep. Through Europe. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:49:22 PM EST
    I love Africa, but it's certainly not the easiest place to get to from here. When we went to South Africa, it took us 24 hours to get to Johannesburg from L.A. via Atlanta -- four hours from LAX to ATL, a three-hour layover, and then 17 hours nonstop from ATL to JHB.

    Strictly my opinion, but I find that way too long to be cooped up on a plane. Were I to do that again, we'd overnight in Europe and break the trip up. I can handle an 11-hour flight, but 17 hours nonstop is just too much. It was so discouraging to look at my watch, noting that we had been in the air for eight hours and still had another nine to go.

    On the upside, Delta Air Lines has great inflight entertainment on its international service. I binge-watched the entire third and fourth seasons of "The Tudors."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Your rant (none / 0) (#50)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:31:10 PM EST
    Take up your rant with Liberian President who called what he did "unpardonable" for putting multitudes of innocent people at risk.

    Ebola patient's leaving Liberia was 'unpardonable,' its President says

    Your rant is just as unpardonable as you appear to think that facts are either left wing or right wing, and that you are able to discern the difference.

    I got news for you -- facts are facts and communicable diseases don't care what your political leanings.

    Perhaps you should take a trip to Texas and volunteer to change some bedpans -- with just your left hand.

    BTW I forgot to get your approval to post that CNN link --

    Is that link all right -- Does it meet with your approval -- Is it Left Wing enough for you???

    Aloha to you

    Parent

    Facts (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:39:52 PM EST
    are not left or right.  Where you get them is.  Link to townhall all you like.  But don't expect to not be called out for it.

    Parent
    Source (none / 0) (#59)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:49:06 PM EST
    Does that go for CNN as well???

    The same information there at Townhall is found on CNN on this story.

    Did the CDC director say what he said and did the Ebola carrier did what he did???

    That is the issue --

    Of course when you don't like the issue then you try to discredit the messenger.

    Nothing new there.

    Parent

    Personally (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:53:08 PM EST
    i would not get an unverified weather report from CNN.  But that's another discussion.

    Parent
    LOL! They didn't earn the nickname ... (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:39:10 PM EST
    ... "Chicken Noodle News" for nothing!

    Parent
    Not weather-related, but ... (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 09:01:25 PM EST
    ... four years ago, when northern Chile was hit with an 8.2-magnitude earthquake that generated a tsunami and Hawaii was placed on high alert as a result, CNN's then-resident schmuck Rick Sanchez breathlessly stood in front of this onscreen map of the eastern Pacific Ocean to reinforce the idea that we were in imminent jeopardy. Only he mistakenly noted our proximity to the earthquake's epicenter, by instead pointing to the Galapagos Islands off the coast of Ecuador. We're actually over 6,000 miles to the northwest of the Galapagos.

    Parent
    But Townhall.com's statement that ... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 04:59:42 PM EST
    ... Duncan knew he was infected with Ebola when he left Liberia was definitely not factual. Rather, it was a blatant misstatement of the truth, the type of verbal contortion which only further fans the flames of ignorance and hysteria at a time when sober analysis and rational thought is required.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Duncan (2.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 05:32:53 PM EST
    But Townhall.com's statement that Duncan knew he was infected with Ebola when he left Liberia was definitely not factual.

    Are you a mindreader??? How do you know what he knew and didn't know??? Maybe you missed this in the CNN article:

    Days before he became the first person diagnosed with Ebola on American soil, Thomas Eric Duncan answered "no" to questions about whether he had cared for a patient with the deadly virus.

    Before leaving Liberia, Duncan also answered no to a question about whether he had touched the body of someone who died in an area affected by the disease, said Binyah Kesselly, board chairman of the Liberia Airport Authority.

    Witnesses say Duncan had been helping Ebola patients in Liberia. Liberian community leader Tugbeh Chieh Tugbeh said Duncan was caring for an Ebola-infected patient at a residence in Paynesville City, just outside Monrovia.

    The questionaire wasn't whether he had Ebola or touched someone who had it but whether he touched someone who was sick???

    The questionaire wasn't whether he had Ebola or came in contact with someone who had Ebola, but whether he touched someone who was sick or diseased. He may not have known Ebola but he knew sick or diseased.

    Are you going to tell us that he didn't know that the person that he delivered to the hospital wasn't sick or diseased???

     What are you claiming that he thought he was taking her -- to a health spa, a hairdresser appointment, a nail salon???

    Get real.

    Let me give you a hint, Donald. The CNN article that I posted after your rant is much more devastating for Thomas Duncan, the CDC and Ebola than the Townhall article that I first posted. And they all have you to thank for that.

    Save your rants for someone else. I'm not impressed --

    Aloha

    Parent

    (Sigh!) Again, Duncan did not know ... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 06:23:46 PM EST
    ... that he was infected with Ebola when he left Liberia. Rather, he knew he had been exposed to the virus while in Liberia. (And yes, I acknowledge that he obviously failed to disclose that knowledge to Liberian authorities as required upon his departure from that country.)

    But the fact remains that Duncan did not actually know that he had an active Ebola infection, until he was formally diagnosed by physicians in Dallas nearly a week after his arrival.

    In epidemiological terms, the words "infection" and "exposure" are not at all synonymous, and no knowledgeable and responsible journalist would use them (or their derivatives) interchangeably when writing or talking about important public health issues like this.

    While you can be exposed to a particular virus or pathogen, it doesn't necessarily follow that you'll subsequently be infected by it, because not all viruses and pathogens take hold in one's body upon immediate (or even prolonged) exposure. That's why some people will come down with the flu and some will not, even when they are exposed to the same bug simultaneously.

    Reading comprehension is your friend. Please try using it some time, so people don't have to repeat themselves over and again, and potentially blog-clog TL in the process.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I don't know how many times people (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 07:14:02 PM EST
    have to be told this, but if you aren't symptomatic, you aren't contagious.  So while Duncan may not have been completely truthful leaving Liberia, he didn't develop symptoms until after he arrived here.

    And here's something people also don't seem to consider: not everyone who is exposed will contract the virus; if that were the case, it wouldn't be a matter of a few thousand people with Ebola, it would be millions.

    Would people please calm down and educate themselves?  More people die from measles and influenza than from Ebola. And please, stop listening to quack right-wing doctors/experts/Fox News-types who are spreading misinformation and inciting panic.  These are the same people who told us that migrant children were going to be bringing leprosy and Ebola and all kinds of disease here - there are even claims that this is all part of some plan.

    Conservative media outlets, including Fox News contributor Laura Ingraham, are fanning the flames of Ebola panic and anti-immigrant sentiment by highlighting the unfounded opinions of fringe medical expert Dr. Elizabeth Vliet, the former director of an organization that claimed that undocumented immigrants caused a leprosy epidemic.

    After news outlets reported the discovery of an Ebola patient diagnosed in the United States, radio host and Fox News contributor Laura Ingraham hosted Dr. Elizabeth Vliet to inform listeners about the disease. Vliet used the platform to accuse President Obama of "underplaying the risk" of Ebola and suggested the disease could be transmitted through the air, an opinion that runs contrary to widespread medical opinion.

    To make her case, Vliet cited a debunked study from 2012 that studied transmission of the virus between pigs and monkeys...

    Vliet's medical degree and penchant for hyping anti-immigrant myths has helped develop her reputation as the far right's go-to expert for medical conspiracy theories. In August, Vliet wrote an exclusive column for WND.com titled, "Illegals Bring Risk Of Ebola." In her article, the Vliet parroted other anti-immigrant voices by suggesting undocumented immigrants crossing the southern border were spreading Ebola and that the government was concealing their diagnoses.

    Despite "zero evidence" that migrants have carried Ebola through the U.S.-Mexico border, Vliet's opinion was cited by Breitbart, Infowars, and Newsmax, a continuation of a long conservative tradition of smearing immigrants as dirty or diseased.

    Use some freakin' common sense, for crying out loud.  Exercise normal measures to safeguard your health: wash your hands a lot, use antibacterial gel after touching things like door knobs and shopping cart handles and other surfaces the general public will touch.  Avoid sick people.

    Do I have to get Samuel L. Jackson to narrate a book entitled, "Calm the Fk Down?"  I think some people here desperately need to do just that.

    Parent

    Symptomatic (2.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 10:42:13 PM EST
    I don't know how many times people have to be told this, but if you aren't symptomatic, you aren't contagious.

     

    So I guess you missed this story:

    Ebola Outbreak: Infected Travellers Use 'Lies and Ibuprofen' to Get Through Airport Screenings

    I don't know how many times that people have to be told that you can have Ebola and be symptomatic and thus contagious but take enough ibuprofen to conceal the symptomatic part while the contagious part quietly does its work, as healthcare professionals in this article articulate.

    Parent

    Oh, for the love of God... (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 10:53:42 PM EST
    It's transmitted through direct exposure to body fluids - if that doesn't happen, you're not getting Ebola.  Just like you can't get HIV or hepatitis sitting next to someone on a plane, or standing in line at the grocery store, or walking down the street.

    I suggest the next time you get on a plane, avoid having sex with or making out with strangers, and if you see anyone having a nosebleed, don't offer to dispose of the tissues.  Don't drink a stranger's breast milk.  Wear nitrile gloves and a respirator.

    Or don't get on a plane at all - don't get on a bus or a train, don't get on elevators, order your groceries online, give all your food and any packaging a bleach bath.  Don't shake hands with anyone.  Seal yourself up in your house and take your temperature a lot.

    Be afraid.  Be very afraid. You seem to be enjoying it.

    Parent

    Be afraid. Be very afraid. (2.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 12:30:01 AM EST
    No -- you are the one who is afraid.

    You are afraid of anyone writing about it or talking about it or questioning what is being done about it or whether we are being told the truth about it by those who are paid to know.

    Why is that??? It's like you want to quash any discussion of the matter and shut down any dissent against the story of the day.

    What is it about this matter that we are not supposed to question while we question the hell out of a whole lot of others???  

    A guy is screened for Ebola by CDC trained professionals in Africa, then shows up 6 days later in Texas with full blown Ebola, and raising questions about it somehow taboo and off limits???

    How politically-incorrect is that???

    To me that attitude is more worrisome than anything.

    Parent

    He did not show up in Texas with (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Anne on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 08:59:34 AM EST
    "full-blown Ebola;" he left Liberia on the 19th and didn't begin to have symptoms until the 24th, which was 5 days later.  Five days after he left the country on the plane, and 10 days after his contact with the young woman who had Ebola.

    He may have lied on his exit-screening forms about his contact, and I'm not saying he should have or that he won't have to take responsibility for that somehow, but let me ask you this: if he believed he had Ebola, believed he had a fever and was taking medication to suppress it, why wasn't the first stop on his arrival in Texas - or even in Brussels or Washington, DC, the two cities he flew through on his way to Texas - a hospital?  If he was so anxious about his exposure that he had to fly home, why'd he wait 7 days to seek any kind of medical treatment?  He became symptomatic on the 24th, but didn't go to the hospital for 2 more days, on the 26th.  That was his failure, but I question just how concerned he really was given how long he waited to seek medical attention.  

    Let's get one thing very, very clear: I am not afraid of the discussion, or of anyone writing or talking about it.  I'd be happy to have a discussion about what kinds of education and information is being given to people in Ebola-affected areas, and how that may be failing the people.  

    What is annoying the crap out of me is that you aren't willing to engage the thinking part of your brain in order to rationally address the questions I and others have posed, you've ignored every single fact about the disease itself, and you seem determined to keep fear-mongering.  That's what I don't like.  

    It's fine to question the exit screenings, equally fine to question the significant lapse in communication among Texas hospital personnel that resulted in Duncan being sent home.  What you don't seem to be able to address or consider - and what has been my focus because you are off the rails with hysteria - is information about Ebola itself.

    There is more danger, in my opinion, in failing to educate yourself on the disease, in allowing yourself to be frightened by the media, than there is that you or anyone you know will ever be exposed to or contract Ebola.

    Parent

    Using common sense (1.50 / 2) (#127)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 10:16:06 AM EST
    Typically, influenza is transmitted through the air by coughs or sneezes, creating aerosols containing the virus. Influenza can also be transmitted by direct contact with bird droppings (read human feces) or nasal secretions, or through contact with contaminated surfaces.

    Link

    Tell me why Ebola can't be transmitted the same way.

    Of course you can't. To do so you will have to claim that Ebola patients do not cough, sneeze or vomit and if they do then aerosols are not created. And that any of their bodily fluids that get deposited on such things as door knobs, bedposts, bedside lamps, etc., instantly die.

    And since no viruses die instantly, how long does the Ebola virus live? Studies have shown that some flu viruses live up to 24 hours. Where does the Ebola virus fall in that time frame?

    And lets look when a person having another virus is contagious:

    By a healthy person coming into contact with the bodily fluids of an infected person, whether those fluids are airborne (as from a sneeze) or left on a doorknob by a sick person who just wiped his nose. So if you have no symptoms yet, it's a lot less likely that you're going to spread the virus to another person.

    link

    "Less likely" is a qualifier. It means you probably won't be contagious but maybe you will be.

    Should we be treating a deadly disease like Ebola using "less likely" as a guideline?

    Using more common sense.

    The source of the disease has been West Africa. We should immediately stop all commercial air and ship traffic to try and isolate it. We can use military transport for medical aid.

    But that wouldn't be politically correct.

    And the government, with Obama and Democrats as the group in power, absorbing the blame for not acting quickly. (As Reagan did over Aids.)

    Can't have that.

    Parent

    You remind (5.00 / 6) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 10:53:07 AM EST
    of the Aids hysteria people back in the 1980's. Even though science said you couldn't contact AIDS except through certain channels, you guys refused to believe it and got all hysterical.

    Parent
    Ebola can't be transmitted as easily as th. (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 11:32:24 AM EST
    the flu viruses because it's from a different family of viruses.  

    To even ask the question that Jim asked reveals a profound ignorance of medical science in the first place.

    Parent

    Who is "you guys???" (none / 0) (#135)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 04:22:17 PM EST
    And why do you make up out right lies???

    I mean you have absolutely no information regarding what I thought/knew about AIDS.

    Parent

    You guys (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 02:09:34 PM EST
    as in your fellow political travelers the fundamentalists and the evangelicals.

    Parent
    Ebola is not the Flu. (5.00 / 4) (#131)
    by Anne on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 11:50:02 AM EST
    Jesus H. Christ, Jim - do you work at your ignorance or do you just come by it naturally?  

    If I told you there was a "possibility" you could get Ebola from keyboards and touch screens, would you put yours away for a couple of months?

    Parent

    Hmmm, don't know (1.00 / 1) (#136)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 04:26:51 PM EST
    who your invoking or why you make things up.

    I have done nothing except note some facts.

    Your time would be better spent researching.

    Instead you draw a cloak of "the government says..." around yourself.

    I guess that means you accept everything Bush and his guys said about Iraq.

    lol

    Parent

    BTW - Ebola and the flu (1.00 / 1) (#137)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 04:34:34 PM EST
    are both viruses.

    Saying that the Ebola virus can't be contained within an aerosol is stupid. Obviously it can.

    The real question is how long can it survive? I don't know.

    And I have seen no talking head on TV say that it cannot. All they do is say how hard it is to catch and you must be exposed to body fluids.

    Guess what. A sneeze contains body fluids.

    Parent

    Why don't use your vaunted techie skills (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 04:55:58 PM EST
    And see if you can do some research on the Internet to learn more about how Ebola is transmitted and not rely on talking  heads for your information.

    Parent
    Since using Google is well (1.00 / 1) (#139)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 05:18:09 PM EST
    within your skill set, why don't you????

    Parent
    But since I am in a giving mood (1.00 / 1) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 05:33:30 PM EST
    Nosocomial infections can occur through contact with infected body fluids for example due to the reuse of unsterilized syringes, needles, or other medical equipment contaminated with these fluids Footnote 1 Footnote 2. Humans may be infected by handling sick or dead non-human primates and are also at risk when handling the bodies of deceased humans in preparation for funerals Footnote 2 Footnote 10 Footnote 43.

    That means you can get it from dirty needles so it must have some life span outside the host.

    In laboratory settings, non-human primates exposed to aerosolized ebolavirus from pigs have become infected, however, airborne transmission has not been demonstrated between non-human primates otnote 2 Footnote 59

    That means that apes have caught it but they haven't tested it on humans. Since we are all monkies I assume you will agree when I say it is very very likely that humans can.

    And the jackpot question. How long outside??

    SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C) Footnote 52 Footnote 61.

    Link

    Parent

    The virus lives in fluid. It does not (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Anne on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 05:53:15 PM EST
    live on hard surfaces, it does not live once the fluid it is in dries.

    Read this, maybe it will help disabuse you of the nonsense you keep spouting.  Look at the chart, jim; read the whole article.

    But there's precious little data on some other practical questions: Which bodily fluids harbor the virus? Does it linger on objects touched by an infected person?

    Hard data are scant in large part because Ebola outbreaks have been sporadic, and because every epidemic before the current one ended before even 500 people became infected. A few epidemiologic studies have interviewed infected people and their close contacts and clarified that it does not spread through the air. The studies also suggest that the main routes of transmission include touching an infected person, sharing a bed, and of course contact with bodily fluids. Funerals of Ebola patients also presented extremely high risks because of rituals that involve touching the body, group hand-washing, and communal meals.

    One study examined skin from people who died from Ebola and suggested that sweat may play an important role. "One possible explanation for the role of direct physical contact in transmission is the presence of abundant virus particles and antigens in the skin in and around sweat glands," the authors concluded. But the most comprehensive analysis done to date notes that risk factors differ depending on the stage of disease, and that people at late-stage disease or death are far more likely to transmit the virus.

    A crucial 2007 paper, published in The Journal of Infectious Diseases, offers perhaps the best indication available of where the risks lie, and where they don't. It analyzed samples from confirmed cases during a 2000 outbreak in Uganda, including people who were acutely ill or recovering. It also looked for the virus on objects, such as desks, walls, and gloves, in an Ebola isolation ward. The study's numbers are small, but it's the most detailed analysis published to date.

    Below are the 2007 study's key tables. One major takeaway: Infection is unlikely to come from a fateful encounter with a doorknob, or even from a handshake. The authors point out, however, that the methods they used to detect Ebola haven't been extensively tested for use on objects, and the virus could have been present at undetectable concentrations.

    Read the journal article, jim.

    I've provided charts, links and a lot of other materials, here and in previous comments, that confirm that Ebola simply is not that easy to get unless you are in direct contact with the bodily fluids of an infected person.  Ebola is not contagious prior to the development of symptoms.

    But who am I kidding?  The dissemination of fractured facts and badly misinterpreted information is one of your specialties, allowing your toxic prejudices to live longer than any Ebola virus.

    Parent

    Anne, your source (?) (1.00 / 2) (#143)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 08:09:25 PM EST
    The virus lives in fluid. It does not (none / 0) (#141)
    by Anne on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 04:53:15 PM CST
    live on hard surfaces, it does not live once the fluid it is in dries.

    Seems to be at odds with my source.

    But there's precious little data on some other practical questions: Which bodily fluids harbor the virus? Does it linger on objects touched by an infected person?

    Note the difference. Why is that??

    Nosocomial infections can occur through contact with infected body fluids for example due to the reuse of unsterilized syringes, needles, or other medical equipment contaminated with these fluids...

    SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C) Footnote 52 Footnote 61.

    And your source even admits that it is shaky when it writes:

    One major takeaway: Infection is unlikely to come from a fateful encounter with a doorknob, or even from a handshake. The authors point out, however, that the methods they used to detect Ebola haven't been extensively tested for use on objects, and the virus could have been present at undetectable concentrations.

    Those are some very important points and the CDC, and other government types, would be well advised to note these things instead of pushing the "Don't worry! Be happy!" company line.

    The reason for this is obvious. As noted by a commentator on CNN yesterday, we are responsible:

    I mean, we in America, how dare we turn our backs on Liberia given the fact that this is a country that was founded in the 1820s, 1830s because of American slavery. We have a responsibility to stay connected to them and help them see this through," Quammnen said.

    CNN

    This is political correctness carried to the stupid level.

    And the Democratic Party had better pray that the situation doesn't become worse after refusing to stop any incoming flights that originate in West Africa or have people on them from West Africa.

    Parent

    Okay, so you're going to go with (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Anne on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 08:38:05 PM EST
    CNN commentators as your authority and the rest of us - with some exceptions - are going with medical experts, accredited journal articles and detailed research.

    Do you even know what a nosocomial infection is?  Just so you know, it is an infection acquired in a hospital setting.

    We do know what bodily fluids harbor the virus - link after link has provided that information to you.  Researchers, doctors, public health experts, epidemiologists, medical and academic researchers and scientists with many years of experience have reported on what fluids the virus can and does live in.  

    Do you even know what is being done to contain the virus, what help/training/assistance is being provided to the region being affected by the outbreak?  I don't think you do.  No one - least of all the US - is turning its back on Liberia.  Is the help happening overnight?  No, it isn't. Why don't you hop on a plane and offer your able assistance, jim - you don't seem to have anything better to do.  

    You know what?  Forget it.  You believe what you want, you find your usual way to turn this into an it's-all-the-Democrats'-fault situation.  Go ahead.  Ignore the obstinate refusal of Republicans to lift one fat finger to do anything that ever helps anyone but those who already have it all.  

    Just be yourself.  We've come to expect nothing less, mainly because it's hard to expect something when there's so little actually there.

    Next thing, you'll be quoting Dr. Vliet to us - the Dr. Vliet who warned us all that those little brown Mexican and Central American children were going to bring Ebola here.

    ::rolling eyes and gagging::

    Parent

    Watch that gagging, Anne (none / 0) (#152)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 12:41:50 PM EST
    vomit is a body fluid.

    "CNN commentators as your authority and the rest of us - with some exceptions - are going with medical experts, accredited journal articles and detailed research."

    No, Anne. And if you read the CNN link, and I am sure you did, you know that the link is not about how Ebola is transmitted. Just a PC rant on how we must protect Liberia because it was founded by slaves. You know, when I see you doing this then I become convinced that you don't want to debate. Your self serving "Just be yourself" about me becomes laughable.

    BTW - My source/link for transmittal was the Public Health Agency of Canada. See comment 140.

    Do you even know what a nosocomial infection is?  Just so you know, it is an infection acquired in a hospital setting.

    Yes, Anne. Before I posted the link I looked it up. And it proves my point. Infection can occur outside and away from another person. If it can be by unsterilized  contaminated syringes, needles and other medical equipment in hospitals it can occur in Urgent Care clinics, doctor's offices, dental offices and by addicts using each other's  needle.

    And the virus can be contained within an aerosol.

    So the question becomes, in both cases, how long can it survive outside the host body?? Again from the PHAC:

    In laboratory settings, non-human primates exposed to aerosolized ebolavirus from pigs have become infected, however, airborne transmission has not been demonstrated between non-human primates otnote 2 Footnote 59

    SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C) Footnote 52 Footnote 61.

    And I again note that your sources use qualifiers. "Unlikely" is a qualifier.  They cannot state: Can Not.

    Now, since no medical/scientific agency cannot be sure then it occurs to me that our government, which is supposed to protect us citizens, not West Africa, should be isolating the prime known source as best possible. That means no commercial airline or ships from the countries and no person from there entering the US via any other means. In medical terms, "First do no harm."

    That doesn't mean that we don't use military transport to provide aid.

    Is it political? You bet. Every bit as political as the attacks on Reagan for his lack of leadership on the AIDS epidemic.


    Parent

    It was thought, for a while, that the HIV/Aids (none / 0) (#148)
    by fishcamp on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 07:28:48 AM EST
    virus could be transmitted via mosquitos but that has been proven untrue.  My ex-girl friend a DVM studied that very subject for a semester at the CDC but she is on vacation in Turkey now so I have no backup for that information.  She said the virus dies immediately upon contact with the oxygen in air which penetrates the thin skin of a blood laden mosquito.  

    Parent
    Looks like Anne found what you (none / 0) (#142)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 06:04:42 PM EST
    should've been able to find for yourself, instead of spending your time fear-mongering like a Fox News talking head.

    Parent
    Please. You are incapable of (none / 0) (#144)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 08:20:22 PM EST
    offering anything besides personal attacks. That displays your personality as well as ability.

    Just go back and read my response to Anne where her source is contradicted by the Public Health Agency of Canada.

    What strikes me as odd as why you, Anne and others, are so happy to accept explanations where there are not only contradictions from a very solid source but choose to ignore her sources use of such qualifiers as "unlikely."

    Parent

    I wish you'd learn to disagree (none / 0) (#147)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 10:05:32 PM EST
    in a civilized manner instead of having hissy fits when people don't agree with your ill-informed blather.

    Parent
    Oh please (none / 0) (#149)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 08:28:13 AM EST
    you never provide any information you just snark. Remember. You do not have to read my comments or respond to them.

    Parent
    I can't help it if you find the truth (none / 0) (#150)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 09:11:32 AM EST
    a personal insult, Jim.  

    You're also free to ignore what I write here, and you don't even have to play table captain towards any of the discussions here as well.

    Parent

    What you've "seen" is irrelevant (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Yman on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 05:32:21 PM EST
    Saying that the Ebola virus can't be contained within an aerosol is stupid. Obviously it can.

    The real question is how long can it survive? I don't know.

    And I have seen no talking head on TV say that it cannot. All they do is say how hard it is to catch and you must be exposed to body fluids.

    Whenever someone claims they "haven't seen" evidence that contradicts their theory/claim, it should be a huge, red flag.  What's "stupid" is trying to use the fact that you personally haven't seen someone on TV telling you that Ebola can't be spread via aerosol like other viruses as evidence, particularly when a 10-second Google search will answer the question.

    Study Confirms That Ebola Is Not Transmitted Through The Air

    Can you get Ebola through the air? Here's what the science says.

    Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever Transmission and Risk Factors of Contacts, Uganda- CDC

    From actual scientists who study the disease, not "talking heads" like the silly one on Fox who was previously caught making ridiculous claims about leprosy and immigrants.  Although I understand your frequent reluctance to use science/studies/experts rather than wingnut blogs when it doesn't fit the fairy tale you're trying to push.

    Parent

    Here's some common sense on Ebola (none / 0) (#151)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 12:13:56 PM EST
    from TPM:

    I don't take everything the CDC says as gospel. It would not be entirely unreasonable to think that if folks at the CDC had or were screwing things up they might have an institutional or personal interest in covering up or downplaying those failures. But the people at the CDC are not the only people with knowledge about this stuff. If we were seeing knowledgable people saying that everything was getting screwed up, I'd be worried. But we're not. Quite the contrary actually.

    What I have seen are amateurs - people with as much knowledge as I have - using their own logic and suppositions to draw conclusions, often but not always with a backdrop of fear and trash talk. Sometimes I can spot their logical fallacies. Other times I can't.

    But this a case where having knowledge actually matters. If you literally do not know what you're talking about, I'm going to put your opinions at the back of the line behind those people who do know what they're talking about. And others should too.



    Parent
    Your problem is that (none / 0) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 12:44:51 PM EST
    my source is the Public Health Agency of Canada, not my personal opinion.

    And, again, no one is making you read my comments.

    Parent

    One source isn't uniquely informative (none / 0) (#154)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 12:57:23 PM EST
    On this subject, Jim, I'll take the CDC over a website from Canada, or anywhere else for that matter.

    I suggest you post your hysterical fear-mongering somewhere else if you don't want it to be debunked by myself or anybody else.

    Parent

    Questionaire (none / 0) (#84)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 07:05:44 PM EST
    Duncan did not know that he was infected with Ebola when he left Liberia.

    That's not what the questionaire asked.

    It just asked if he touched someone who was diseased which required a simple yes or no answer -- to which he obviously answered no because he knew that they were screening for Ebola and if he answered yes then he wouldn't be coming to America just yet.

    It didn't ask for a diagnosis or a medical opinion or the pathology of the person touched -- just whether that person that they touched was sick -- that's all.

    It didn't take someone with an MD after their name to answer it honestly.

    The fact that he lied to that question tells the authorities that he suspected that he might be infected and was not willing to wait in Liberia for the incubation period to pass and wanted to get to America pronto.

    He may not have known that he was infected for sure but his behaviour says that he probably suspected it and was in a hurry to get to America before it became apparent symptomatically to others.

    I wonder if the reason the airline he travelled on is worried is because the investigators found evidence that he had been taking ibuprofen or aspirin back in Liberia.


    Parent

    Oh, for crying out loud, dude! (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:20:21 PM EST
    Uncle Chip: "I wonder if the reason the airline he travelled on is worried is because the investigators found evidence that he had been taking ibuprofen or aspirin back in Liberia."

    What is wrong with you? I take a daily aspirin regimen! Does that therefore imply to you that I'm likewise a likely suspect for covering up an Ebola infection? C'mon! What you're offering up here is truly clown car material.

    You really don't know what Mr. Duncan was thinking, any more than I do, so please stop talking as though you're somehow in the know and the rest of us are rebels without a clue. You can save yourself a lot of ridicule by ceasing to further speculate in this matter without either evidence or cause, which has thus far apparently led you to assume your own baseless conjecture to be fact.

    If you can do that, I'm sure that the rest of us will privately thank you for no longer insulting our intelligence, never mind trying our patience.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Simple question (none / 0) (#121)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 11:18:26 PM EST
    Did he lie on the questionaire at the airport or not???

    It is a simple question that requires a simple answer of Yes or No.

    What is your answer to that simple question, Donald????

    Parent

    Here's a simple answer. (5.00 / 4) (#124)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 01:28:24 AM EST
    Re-read my posts, which apparently you haven't really bothered to do, because you're too busy huffing and puffing and threatening to blow everyone's houses down. If you read what I wrote carefully, you'll see that I answered your question hours ago.

    Again, reading comprehension is your friend. Good night.

    Parent

    Donald, apparently, (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Zorba on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 04:11:21 PM EST
    Reading comprehension and critical thinking skills are sorely lacking in some of our commenters.  {Sigh}
    But your comments have been helpful, if only Uncle Chip and some others would bother to read them with an open mind.
    But they have their closed minds made up.  Don't confuse them with the facts.

    Parent
    So... you admit... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 06:07:47 PM EST
    your information about African airport and protocols is at least several years - and more to the point, one epidemic, out of date.  

    Parent
    Africa is hardly monolithic. (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 07:32:06 PM EST
    It consists of 58 independent countries, of which I've been to only thirteen thus far. (For the record, they are Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Botswana, Namibia, Swaziland, Lesotho and South Africa.) And just like the rest of the world, each country is going to have its own respective protocols which govern the processing of arriving and departing passengers.

    What I did say above is that the U.S. government did not require us to fill out a medical declaration form upon our re-entry to this country from Africa. Further, none of the thirteen countries we visited in Africa did the same upon our departure. And of those thirteen countries, only Zimbabwe required an entry visa from American visitors, which cost US$100 per person. The others only required that we have our valid passport and declare our purpose for visiting.

    Also, as I stated earlier, the only country we visited that actively guarded against the introduction of disease by screening the body temperature of arriving international passengers was South Africa. Granted, that may well change with the latest Ebola outbreak.

    But then again, it may not, because many African governments are quite poor and can't necessarily afford the expensive screening technology on their own, given that many of them can barely afford the present security screening they have at airports and border crossings. And further, each country has its own particular dynamic relationships with its neighbors to consider, and this includes intertribal exchange.

    Because national borders were often drawn arbitrarily by Africa's former European overlords, it's not uncommon for members of the same tribes to be found on either side of a given border, and these tribes have long been used to free interchange across national boundaries. I would imagine that some African governments would find it very difficult to disrupt that migratory flow, without courting a resultant and perhaps even bloody backlash.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Are you serious? (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:39:42 PM EST
    of course they are trying to track down the people on the plane.  They should be under observation.  And the people on the plane that were on it in contact with his bodily fluids probably have no worries.

    You know what?  Forget what I said.  Setting your hair on fire is a good course for you.

    Parent

    Or...maybe they could read (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:04:08 PM EST
    this, and pay particular attention to the graphic that accompanies the article:

    The reproduction number, or "R nought," is a mathematical term that tells you how contagious an infectious disease is. Specifically, it's the number of people who catch the disease from one sick person, on average, in an outbreak.

    Take, for example, measles. The virus is one of the most contagious diseases known to man. It's R0 sits around 18. That means each person with the measles spreads it to 18 people, on average, when nobody is vaccinated. (When everyone is vaccinated, the R0 drops to essentially zero for measles).

    At the other end of the spectrum are viruses like HIV and hepatitis C. Their R0s tend to fall somewhere between 2 and 4. They're still big problems, but they spread much more slowly than the measles.

    And that brings us back to Ebola. Despite its nasty reputation, the virus's R0 really isn't that impressive. It typically sits around 1.5 to 2.0.

    Even in the current epidemic in West Africa, where the virus has been out of control, each person who has gotten sick has spread Ebola to only about two others, on average.

    Why is that?

    Many factors contribute to the R0, such as how long you're infectious** and how many virus particles are needed to make another person sick.
    With exponential growth, the numbers can get big, quickly.

    But in Ebola's case, the mode of transmission probably helps keep its R0 low. Ebola isn't spread through the air, like the measles or flu. It requires close contact with some bodily fluid, such as blood or vomit, containing the virus.



    Parent
    Oops (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:42:20 PM EST
    "that were NOT in contact"

    Parent
    Given what Barnbabe noted, ... (none / 0) (#65)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 05:11:19 PM EST
    ... Duncan took three different flights to get to Texas from Liberia -- from Monrovia to Brussels, Brussels to Washington-Dulles, and then Dulles to Dallas-Ft. Worth. Then, if you take into account his proximity to and potential contact with all the various arriving and departing passengers at the Brussels, Dulles and DFW airports, we're talking about several thousand people who should be looked at and monitored.

    Meanwhile, this country is facing a potentially serious outbreak of the enterovirus D68, with over 500 people infected and at least four dead across 43 states and the District of Columbia. I know that the Ebola story makes great media copy, but I would hope that we not lose sight of other potential health threats out there, which carry a much greater likelihood of adversely impacting Americans in general than does Ebola.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Maybe (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 05:28:51 PM EST
    in an emergency they could redirect some of the domestic spying money and personnel  to a useful purpose.

    Parent
    Entero -- (2.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 07:10:25 PM EST
    Meanwhile, this country is facing a potentially serious outbreak of the enterovirus D68, with over 500 people infected and at least four dead across 43 states and the District of Columbia.

    Exactly -- and thanks to Duncan now a large amount of our medical resources are now being shifted to diagnosing and dealing with Ebola instead of on the enterovirus.

    Thanks Duncan -- Thanks CDC -- Thanks Homeland Security --

    Parent

    No, our medical resources are (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 07:20:15 PM EST
    going to be taxed as a result of hysterical media and people like you fanning the flames.  How so?  Because every Tom, Dick and Jane who sneezes is going to run to the nearest ER convinced that someone gave them Ebola.  

    As for the enterovirus, it is mostly affecting children, and is most serious for children with asthma and other respiratory problems.  

    I have to say that the kind of hysteria you've been hawking here is unconscionable.

    Parent

    Oh my! You really are all (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by nycstray on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:39:54 PM EST
    unhinged, aren't you?!

    Parent
    What do you mean, "unhinged"? (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 09:11:51 PM EST
    I'm not unhinged, I've never been unhinged, I may get a little animated and emotional sometimes but I really don't know what you're talking about, how can I be unhinged that means I'm crazy, you go to hell, Mommy she's being mean to me again, make her stop, no Mommy don't take away my Venti triple-espresso suicide-inhibitor cappuccino and my Super-Big Gulp Mountain Dew, please I'll be good from now on I promise ...

    ;-D

    Parent

    Alan Henning beheaded (none / 0) (#32)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:49:16 PM EST
    Another one. American aide worker next.


    Ah geez (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 03:52:59 PM EST
    Russel Wilson (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 07:52:40 PM EST
    launches Pass the Peace

    To stop domestic violence and help its victims.  This seems like a good thing.  But honestly I have a really hard time hearing anything he says while I am looking at him.   He had me before hello.

    Had no idea who he was by name, that is how (none / 0) (#101)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:49:13 PM EST
    out of touch with the NFL I am...but yes, he is a fine looking man!

    Parent
    Me either (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:52:00 PM EST
    but he was on cable news.  Couldn't tell you a word he said.  It's was like the adults talking in the Peanuts cartoons.

    Bwah bwah bwah bwah.

    Parent

    ha! and a Seahawks fan is born (none / 0) (#104)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:56:50 PM EST
    Check him out on (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 09:12:51 PM EST
    MSNBC

    for whatever reason way more flattering than the HuffPo video.


    Parent

    OK, I managed to stay awake until Knick time!!! (none / 0) (#105)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:58:35 PM EST
    Off to plant myself on the couch and get my own fix of fine looking crazy Dr. Thackery.

    Parent
    So many story lines (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 09:45:22 PM EST
    that are difficult to see ending well.  

    Parent
    Yeah....waiting for it to all fall down (none / 0) (#113)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 09:58:51 PM EST
    Definitely not 'sustainable', as they say.

    Here is an interesting article about what an accomplishment it is for Soderbergh. I didn't realize that the cinematographer and editing credits are pseudonyms for him.  

    Parent

    Yep (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 10:07:13 PM EST
    its totally his baby.   If you. Ever saw some of his edgier stuff I think you would like it.  For a while he would go to a town a make a movie with local residents about local residents.
    Bubble was made that way.

    Lisa Swartzbaum of Entertainment Weekly opened the New York Film Festival screening of "Bubble" by introducing the writer Coleman Hough (a woman, to my minor shock). She said about 10 words and the screening began.

    Upon the first scene, any film guru would note that it's amazingly captured on HD. Some scenes I couldn't believe weren't 35mm.

    "Bubble" doesn't belittle the simple people it depicts, as many Hollywood-takes-on-small-town-USA films do, but really gives them great depth and complexity. Coming from a small town myself, I felt like I knew the people that were on the screen.

    The neurotic "love" triangle that emerges in the film is wonderfully dark and comedic, as is the film entirely. From the assembly of the dolls in the factory to the simple lunch break conversations, everything has a seeded, underlying element of humanity that is both jocular and haunting.

    Without giving away anything damaging to the story, "Bubble" is a great escape from Hollywood for both Soderbergh and the public alike with amazing performances by the non-professional leads and supporting cast and an ending that will make you say "Huh?"

    8/10 (and for as much as I paid for tickets to the NYFF, Soderbergh should've been there dammit!)



    Parent
    Worth mentioning (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 10:37:59 PM EST
    that the doll factory and the shovel factory in the film are real places where the real stars actually worked.

    Parent
    Yeah baby (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 09:03:28 PM EST
    I'm there

    Parent
    I have a book dilemma (none / 0) (#98)
    by ruffian on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 08:40:39 PM EST
    I love Martin Amis's work. Insightful, merciless, so funny. His new book 'The Zone of Interest'  is said to "slam home the horror of The Holocaust".  wha? I'm pretty sure I have had the horror of The Holocaust slammed home already.

    I will have to read it, but I am kind of afraid.

    Maybe he'll surprise you, and ... (none / 0) (#110)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 09:35:07 PM EST
    ... will instead slam home the horror of Holocaust denial.

    Let me know what you think. And speaking of Germans in WWII, I'm currently reading Michael Hastings' "Overlord," about D-Day and the Battle of Normandy. What makes it interesting is that in addition to the Allied perspective, he also interviewed many German veterans of the campaign, which gives one a rather well-rounded idea of what it was like to have been swept up, chewed up and spit out by the bloody events of those days, especially from an infantryman's POV.

    Aloha.  

    Parent

    Quick correction, Donald. (none / 0) (#115)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 03, 2014 at 10:17:01 PM EST
    The author of Overlord is Max Hastings, not Michael. Michael was a journalist. He wrote the Rolling Stone story that got Stanley McChrystal relieved of his command in Afghanistan. He died in a single-car accident in Los Angeles.

    Parent
    Thanks, casey. You're right. (none / 0) (#125)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Oct 04, 2014 at 01:59:20 AM EST
    And to think I wrote that with the book sitting right in front of me! Mahalo again for spotting the error and making the correction. I should've known better, because I'm a fan of Max Hastings' work. I just finished his book "Bsttle for the Falklands," about the 1982 war between Britain and Argentina.

    I felt really bad about Michael Hastings' death when it happened last year. He really was one of our best investigative journalists, and "The Runaway General" was a masterwork. But unfortunately, he had to battle some personal issues and demons, as do so many talented and creative people, and he likely also suffered from PTSD as a result of his time as an in-theatre freelance war correspondent in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is some evidence that he started using drugs again after 14 years of sobriety. Anyway, that's neither here nor there anymore. He's very sorely missed, and I hope that his soul is finally at peace.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    EBOLA ZOMBIES ARE COMING (none / 0) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 05:57:53 PM EST
    AND THEY ARE US

    someone sent me this link.  At first I thought it was a joke.  It's not.  This guy apparently has quite a following. The video I linked has had almost 30,000 views since Thursday.
    In short, Ebola is just a front for Bill Gates (seriously) and the corporates controlled media to turn us all into Ebola Zombies with their evil Zmap (z for zombie-I sh!t you not) vaccine.  Please watch this.  It is pretty slickly produced.  If you think you know the depths of paranoia and insanity out there I challenge you to watch this.

    But empty your mouth first.

    Also (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 06:01:23 PM EST
    the part that I absolutely love the most is his theory that TV shows like The Strain, The Last Ship and Walking a Dead are all part of the government media plot to condition us for the coming zombie apocalypse.

    Really.

    Parent

    The guy (none / 0) (#160)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 07:58:07 PM EST
    is a tea partier Ron Paul fan apparently. He has a show on the federal reserve.

    Parent
    Did you watch it? (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 05, 2014 at 08:01:28 PM EST
    that is hands down one of the most amazing things ever

    So earnest and eloquent and completely Batsh!t

    Parent

    Yep. (none / 0) (#162)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 06, 2014 at 04:23:10 AM EST
    Some of it. It's certainly very slickly produced.

    Parent
    From the CDC (none / 0) (#163)
    by jbindc on Mon Oct 06, 2014 at 08:32:53 AM EST
    The last sentence on the poster says it all:

    Ebola poses no significant risk to the United States.