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Wednesday Open Thread

I'll be in court today. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Ebola found not to be transmitted (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:16:21 AM EST
    By aerosols in primate study:

    Kobinger's current research demonstrated that infected macaques were unable to transmit the virus to uninfected macaques without direct contact. The study used the species responsible for the current epidemic of 1,700+ human infections. The two groups of primates were near enough where aerosols could have spread the virus through the air, but they were not able to touch. While the infected macaques died in under a week, the other two never contracted the virus.

    So does this mean that only certain strains of Ebolavirus can be transmitted through the air? Or is it perhaps that pigs have a specialized ability to make Ebola airborne? Was the virus transmitted via an unknown source of cross-contamination? Those questions could very well be settled with further research, but until then, one thing is for certain:
    There is absolutely no evidence that primates can transmit Ebola to one another through the air. The only evidence of primate-to-primate transmission is from direct bodily contact.

    The reason EVD has spread throughout West Africa is due to a lack of healthcare infrastructure. Additionally, many are distrusting of medical practices and favor their traditional techniques, which often include contact with the patient without any protective barriers. Those offering care in Atlanta understand the precautions needed in this matter and there is no sane or logical reason to believe it will spread throughout developed countries.



    Only those of us not running around (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:12:08 AM EST
    like hysterical human versions of Henny Penny will be reading that, but perhaps it may pull a few people back from the brink of panic.

    Yes, Ebola patients die.  A person who contracts the virus has a high percentage chance of dying.  While that is of great concern, I think the conclusion people have erroneously reached is that Ebola's high mortality rate means it has a high communicability rate, but everything we're reading suggests that it simply is not that easy to get in the first place.  

    Parent

    Yes, when talking about a communicable disease (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 01:19:17 PM EST
    How easily it spreads in a population and the virulence(morbidity and mortality associated with an disease) are two separate things. Virulence of disease can even change over time in a population after the initial exposure.  

    Unfortunately, sources like Fox News and other
    tentacles of the RW noise machine would rather let their talking heads blather about it then say, ask a medical virologist or infectious disease specialist to give them the facts and statistics about Ebola to their audience.

    Parent

    Specialist Schmecialist.... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 01:30:26 PM EST
    I read on the tobaccolovers.org user forums, brought to you by Phillip Morris, that smokers are immune from Ebola...I'm rolling with that sound info Jack;)

    Parent
    Nothing new about (none / 0) (#27)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 01:39:17 PM EST
    That kind of thing.

    Parent
    In the meantime (2.00 / 1) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 05:15:05 PM EST
    The American journalist with Ebola who arrived at a Nebraska hospital today believes that he may have gotten infected when he got splashed while spray-washing a vehicle where someone had died from the disease.

    Ashoka Mukpo arrived at the Nebraska Medical Center this morning after being flown directly from Liberia.

    ABC News

    So we now know that:

    1. The virus can exist outside a host body for a substantial amount of time.

    2. It can be transmitted will contained within water droplets and/or aerosols (vapor).

    So, to paraphrase a country song...

    Take your study and stove it! It don't fly here anymore!


    Parent

    I'm sure I speak for a lot of people (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 07:43:19 PM EST
    when I say that we here at TL, as well as an entire community of medical experts, epidemiologists, virologists, researchers, public health experts, biologists, eagerly await the white paper you will be publishing with this ground-breaking, revolutionary finding that years and years of study and research and painstaking work have heretofore failed to come up with.

    Or is this on the back burner while you finalize your report on climate change?

    Why, I think you might be a candidate for a Nobel Prize in more than one discipline.

    Will wonders never cease.

    Parent

    Help me out here (1.00 / 1) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:22:55 PM EST
    Tell is how the journalist caught it.

    Should be simple.

    I mean you know everything....

    And are scared spitless to ask some questions.

    Parent

    You are beyond help, jim. (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:06:10 PM EST
    There are many, many questions that this man will be asked, many people who were with him who will also be providing information; his off-the-cuff layman's speculation cannot and should not be taken as definitive.  Nor should yours, thousands of miles and reams of information away from the site of the outbreak.

    Maybe it will be determined that he had a break in his skin and somehow, while filming in the clinic, he got blood or other fluids in it.  Was he wearing gloves at all times in the clinic?  Was he wearing a face shield to protect his mucous membranes?  I mean, do you know what infection control precautions he was taking?  If not, it is both irresponsible and, frankly, ignorant, to extrapolate from his comments the conclusion that Ebola is transmissable through the air.

    I'm not afraid to ask questions, jim, but you seem incapable of applying even a modicum of common sense and logic to the entire issue.  You seem unable to accept the findings of those who have been working with, studying, researching and treating the virus for many years.  If Ebola was transmissable through the air, these periodic outbreaks of Ebola would resemble pandemics.

    At this point, what you are bringing to these discussions is equivalent to our speculating that monkeys might be hibernating in your butt and come flying out any time now.  I mean, couldn't it be possible?  Maybe not likely, but possible?

    Can you say with absolute certainty that such a thing could not happen?  On what do you base that certainty?  How is yours an expert opinion?

    Why do you want Ebola to be more contagious?  I shudder to think.


    Parent

    I think it's very likely (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:13:15 PM EST
    monkeys are hibernating in his butt.

    Parent
    I think so, too. (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:34:28 PM EST
    And they're probably not alone in there.

    Parent
    Howdy (none / 0) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:40:05 PM EST
    Do you really want to discuss that subject???

    Parent
    Your butt? (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:05:57 PM EST
    Really???? (1.00 / 1) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:38:25 PM EST
    Why do you want Ebola to be more contagious?  I shudder to think.

    Are you actually equating my skepticism with what we have been told/know with wanting it to be worse?

    Anne, that's a very dumb position.

    My point is that we have plenty of evidence that the virus can survive outside the host for a long time and that it can be transmitted by aerosols; coughs, sneezes, vomit or created artificially by water sprays.

    I hope I am wrong. But you don't know if I am or not.

    But you attack because complaining about what the government is doing is, to you, attacking the Progressive method of governing.

    I repeat. You are scared spit less that I am right. And you should be.

    Parent

    No, jim, we do not have the evidence of (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 06:50:15 AM EST
    which you speak. All you really have is fear, which you seem to be trying to spread, but for what purpose I have no idea.  By the way, that's not skepticism you've been exhibiting, it's certainty: you are certain Ebola can be transmitted through the air, certain that's how the cameraman got it: he's "proof" to you, remember?  Still can't figure out why you haven't alerted the media to your - snort! - "scientific findings," and are wasting your time declaring them here.

    I know I will regret asking this, but what is it that the government is or isn't doing that I'm supposed to be complaining about or questioning?  Why they haven't essentially quarantined the site of the original outbreak and banned all travel into or out of the region?  Halted all travel into or out of this country?

    Those questions have been answered, jim, just not to your satisfaction, apparently.  I mean, I realize someone who has demonstrated an aversion to people of color and non-Americans, who resents the presence of those coming into this country across our southern borders, must feel like Ebola may finally be the thing that makes all your xenophobic dreams come true, but - sorry! - that's not going to happen.

    And sorry - there hasn't been a day since I encountered you here, jim, that I have ever been afraid you've been right.  

    Parent

    "for what purpose" ? (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 01:09:49 PM EST
    Anne: The question that you ask jim--the question about why he appears to be intent on inciting fear--is really a key to the pattern of national anxiety and distrust in almost all matters "ebola."  Thank you for your persistence in raising that necessary question.

    This a.m., I read a provocative article in the NYTimes about an apparent political purpose for the seeming fear-mongering. According to the NYT article, the Repubs have launched a new version of fear-mongering just in time for the November election ... the technique in several important races is to plow money into ads pointing to an Obama/Dem failure as seen in the ISIS/ISIL situation, the ebola occurrence, and the problems within the Secret Service community. The expected result is to portray the WH and Dem allies as not being fierce & aggressive enough, thus not being competent in national security.

    I think the NYT's article is onto something.  In recent days, friends here have alluded to the growing national anxiety--hyped, naturally, by a hungry news media--and wondered aloud about the whats & whys.  In Colorado, it is clear that the Repub challenger has used the not-taking-ISIL-seriously-enough charge against Senator Udall effectively so as to catch and overtake the incumbent. Fear often leads; and, voters may well temporarily "forget" or put aside other issues to appease the fear.  Heck, years ago, the constant hype about Swine Flu got a nation so worked-up, there were immediate long lines for flu shots and it was the top topic of the fall.

    The fall hype this time, the hype that there is no defense, is very similar to the notorious Bush hype in 2002. It worked then (except that survivor Landrieu out-maneuvered the macho talk.) I'm tending to think that the constant fear-talk will work again for those with a certain election agenda. Absent strong, solid push-back, it should have a shelf-life at least through the fall.

    Again, Anne, your questions of jim are right on point.

    Parent

    No, anne (1.33 / 3) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:52:29 AM EST
    anne, your anger at me, like some others on this site, is based on the fact that I ask questions challenging your dedication to all things "progressive."

    And yes, anne, like those on the Right who jumped to defend the Reagan administration's poor response to AIDS, you are worried about politics and not the health and welfare of your fellow citizens.

    You wrote:

    And sorry - there hasn't been a day since I encountered you here, jim, that I have ever been afraid you've been right.
     

    And I guess anne you do not approve of my positions on gay rights, single payer health care, women's right to choose, drug laws to name a few.

    Like most "progressives" no opposition is tolerated.

    Sad.

    Parent

    Your "positions". (5.00 / 4) (#155)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:53:13 AM EST
    Quit insulting everyone's intelligence.

    Who was the last living, breathing representative of the will of the people you ever voted for who championed single payer, gay rights etc?

    In the words of the Immortal Bard, cut the bullsh*t.

    Parent

    Same to you Jondee (2.00 / 1) (#184)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:36:20 PM EST
    and please try and remember about your tired old claims that I vote first for the party that I think will do best on national defense...

    BTW - Going back to the days before the Democratic Party was seized by the Left it had politicians that thought America was great and vowed to lead and protect... Think JFK. Heck, even Lyndon...And they were also good on civil rights.  ;-)

    And I voted for Carter. He was the Obama of my generation. But even he caught on after the Islamic radicals seized our embassy and imprisoned our people.
     

    Parent

    9/11 (5.00 / 3) (#189)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:44:44 PM EST
    that was some national defense. What do you do for an encore, Rev Falwell?

    And at the same time, the GOP seems to have been seized by snake handling faith healers, Birchers, and scorched earth libertarians.

    And you still haven't voted for a social liberal in thirty years +.

    When does one start saying ex-social liberal?  

    Parent

    anyone who thinks (5.00 / 3) (#191)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:48:35 PM EST
    Obama is to the left of LBJ and Kennedy has been out in the sun and imbibing Rush-swill for too long..

    Parent
    Seriously... (5.00 / 5) (#193)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:50:44 PM EST
    in some respects, he's to the right of Nixon.  Maybe Goldwater even. Certainly Eisenhower.

    Parent
    Oh, dear Lord...if you get nothing else, (5.00 / 4) (#158)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 11:17:20 AM EST
    please get this: you do not speak for me.  You do not get to divine reasons for any of my emotions, or explain what I am thinking.  That is for me to do.

    I have not uttered or typed one single word about the politics of the Ebola crisis, not one.  My attention has be focused on the virus, how it is transmitted and how contagious it is, and making some effort to dispel the notion that it is transmitted the same way cold and flu viruses are.

    I believe the American people are owed educated, tested, accredited information about Ebola.  There is no good that comes from panicked people running off to the ER in cold and flu season  believing they have Ebola - even though they meet none of the risk factors - because it will drain resources to be dedicated to those who may actually have contracted the virus.  Or, it will keep people out of hospitals out of fear who actually do need to be there.

    This isn't a liberal or conservative issue for me, jim, it is a health issue.  I defy you to find in my comments on this anything of a political nature, any mention of how it will affect elections, etc.  It is the insane conservatives coming up with theories that Obama has deliberately introduced the infection here in order to be able to suspend elections, for crying out loud.

    You can have all the positions you want, jim, but you don't vote for anyone who actually holds those positions, or works to further them, so your votes are actually advancing an agenda you say you don't support.  

    It appears that not only might you have monkeys up your butt, they may actually be the ones doing the talking.

    Parent

    Red and Blue, (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by KeysDan on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 02:02:17 PM EST
    but, without a clue.

    FOX news science and their followers must have discovered that the bacterial world is divided up into blue microbes and red microbes. And, that is enough for them to attach a political banner to their petri dishes.   And, unsurprisingly, it seems to be working with their viewership.

    Bacteria that take a crystal violet stain (and are washed with alcohol/water) are blue under the microscope.  These are called Gram-positive, after the Danish microbiologist Christian Gram.  Those that do not take the violet stain (and are counter-stained) appear red and are called Gram-negative.  

    This categorization is fundamental to infectious disease treatment in determining antibiotic selection (e.g. penicillin for Gram-positive;  generally, ineffective for Gram-negative).  Now, Ebola is a virus, not a bacterium, but, why spoil a chance to not only fan hysteria, but also, conjure up political divisiveness.   A two-fer.  

    Parent

    Monkeys up my butt?? (2.00 / 1) (#185)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:40:02 PM EST
    Are you joining with Howdy???

    lol

    BTW - Do you always end statements with vulgarities?

    It does display an inability to actually express yourself.

    And...really??

    I believe the American people are owed educated, tested, accredited information about Ebola.

    Of course the questions are...

    Who will decide what is actually tested and right... and when it will be released???

    Parent

    There is a whole IMAX (none / 0) (#152)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:49:31 AM EST
    theater here, which is funny coming from the guy who labeled me a pacifist because I didn't think getting into another ME conflict was the greatest idea since sliced bread.

    Parent
    A chickenhawk is just a closet pacifist (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:55:41 AM EST
    but then, there's always been a lot of over-stuffed closets over there on the right..

    Parent
    BTW CNN (none / 0) (#112)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:43:00 PM EST
    is reporting 6 possible cases in Spain.

    Parent
    Here's the real problem, jim: (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:56:05 AM EST
    it's the response to the outbreak, which is proving to be inadequate and resulting in more cases than I believe have ever occurred.  The more cases, the more chances for exposure.

    The president of the World Bank, Jim Kim, admitted on Wednesday that the international community had "failed miserably" in its response to the Ebola virus that has killed more than 3,800 people in west Africa and warned that the crisis now affecting Spain and the US was going to get much worse.

    Amid signs yesterday that western governments were being forced to take the risks of a global pandemic more seriously, Kim said he wanted them to back a new $20bn (£12bn) global health fund that would be able to react instantly to emergencies.

    "It's late. It's really late," he said in an interview with the Guardian before the annual meeting of the Washington-based organisation this weekend.

    "We should have done so many things. Healthcare systems should have been built. There should have been monitoring when the first cases were reported. There should have been an organised response."

    Kim's warning that the global community was still not "moving fast enough" came as the Ebola virus claimed its first victim in the US and news of a case in Spain sent shares in travel and airline companies tumbling on stock exchanges.

    The World Health Organisation (WHO) said the number of deaths from Ebola in west Africa now stood at 3,879 with no evidence that the epidemic was being brought under control.

    It is not the ease of transmission that is creating the larger-than-expected outbreak, it is the inadequacy of the response in the region that started later than it should have - health care and treatment infrastructure here and in the first-world countries are well-able to control this.

    That is a definite concern, but given that the virus is not easily transmitted (that more people have been infected doesn't affect how contagious it is), I think getting it under control is still possible, but will require more money, more supplies, more facilities and more participation from other countries.

    Parent

    ^^Exactly this^^ (none / 0) (#163)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 12:22:02 PM EST
    It is the inadequacy of the response that is making it worse.
    Previously, Ebola had primarily been confined to small, rural villages and a bunch of people died, and the rest survived.
    But with increasing urbanization in Africa and increasing mobility of the population, it spread to larger towns and cities.  
    And the infrastructure was simply inadequate to deal with it.

    See National Geographic.

    See also NPR.

    Parent

    As Yman noted (none / 0) (#115)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:52:08 PM EST
    the scientist you cited with the dead rhesus monkeys later did the study showing that Ebola wasn't transmitted by aerosols primate to primate.

    Sorry about that, chief.

    Parent

    Airborne??? (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 08:18:08 AM EST
    You're not alone in your concern:

    Experts fear Ebola virus COULD spread through the air and not just through contact with bodily fluids

    In September, Michael Osterholm, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, writing in the New York Times, said experts who believe that Ebola could become airborne are loathed to discuss their concerns in public, for fear of whipping up hysteria.

    Discussing the possible future course of the current outbreak, he said: 'The second possibility is one that virologists are loath to discuss openly but are definitely considering in private: that an Ebola virus could mutate to become transmissible through the air.'

    Let's face it -- it's already gone airborne -- it flew from Liberia to America undetected.

    Parent

    And yet... (none / 0) (#134)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:16:46 AM EST
    Airborne Ebola Is Extremely Unlikely, Expert Says

    Osterholm is right in saying that possibility would be terrifying, but other experts say he's off-base when it comes to how likely that situation is--and how concerned infectious disease experts should be about it.

    "I am asked this often," says Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID). "The answer is always going to be `yes , it's possible,' but then people wind up in a panic. Practically speaking, it is not likely. I could never tell the New York Times editorial board that they're wrong because it's not impossible. But it's very unusual for a virus to change how it's transmitted."

    SNIP

    In his op-ed, Osterholm cites a 2012 study in which researchers were able to show in a lab setting that a strain of Ebola could spread in the air from pigs to monkeys. It should be noted, that the virus did not then spread from monkey to more monkeys. Not to mention, the lab setting for this scenario was important. "You can make almost anything happen in the lab," says Fauci.

    "Is it at the back of my mind? Yes. I will watch out for it as we follow the evolution of the virus," he says. "But that is not the paramount issue on my mind because it's fundamentally unlikely."



    Parent
    A punch line should not be left (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:01:52 AM EST
    to stand alone

    CaptHowdy

    Parent

    And some attempts at humor (none / 0) (#153)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:50:51 AM EST
    should be left to wither and die alone.

    Parent
    I prefer to believe medical science (none / 0) (#70)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 05:48:47 PM EST
    before an unverified account by someone who doesn't know how the virus infects humans.  

    Parent
    Okay, the guy who has the disease (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 07:30:48 PM EST
    is just lying.  He didn't wash a car that had had a dead Ebola patient in it.

    He found a sick Ebola patient, stripped naked and rolled all over him.

    lol

    Parent

    Who said he's lying? (none / 0) (#80)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 07:48:27 PM EST
    So we now know that:

        The virus can exist outside a host body for a substantial amount of time.

        It can be transmitted will contained within water droplets and/or aerosols (vapor).

    Uhhhmmmm, ... no.  We don't.

    We know that the man believes it's possible he got the disease from washing the car.


    Levy said that his son is "not certain" when he got the disease, but believes that he could have gotten infected by some of the spray back that came when he was using chlorine to disinfect a car.

    Not to mention the fact that he was filming inside an Ebola clinic.

    Guess they should rephrase that song - "Take your baseless, unsubstantiated opinions and shove it - we'll stick with experts and scientific studies".

    Parent

    Speaking of not knowing (2.00 / 1) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:20:55 PM EST
    I wrote:

    And riddle me this...

    Assuming that the news photo guy who is now in Iowa being treated for Ebola he came down with while be in West Africa is as smart as the average bear and wouldn't go near someone with Ebola....

    How did he catch it??

    Yman wrote:

    There are many scientists who actually study this disease who have stated clearly that it cannot be transmitted to humans by air, as opposed to your "could happen in the future" study.  Where is your actual evidence that it can be?

    All I know is that he caught it.

    And he said what he said.

    Parent

    Ex-ACT-ly (none / 0) (#88)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:41:48 PM EST
    All I know is that he caught it.

    And he said what he said.

    Yet you claimed that this disproves the actual scientific studies which show that Ebola cannot be transmitted through the air to humans.

    Heh.

    Parent

    I claim only what the actual person who (none / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:28:46 PM EST
    is actually suffering with the disease has said.

    I mean, he should know what he was doing.

    In the meantime:

    Michael T. Osterholm - director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota - wrote in the New York Times last month:

    snip

    "In 2012, a team of Canadian researchers proved that Ebola Zaire, the same virus that is causing the West Africa outbreak, could be transmitted by the respiratory route from pigs to monkeys, both of whose lungs are very similar to those of humans. Richard Preston's 1994 best seller "The Hot Zone" chronicled a 1989 outbreak of a different strain, Ebola Reston virus, among monkeys at a quarantine station near Washington. The virus was transmitted through breathing, and the outbreak ended only when all the monkeys were euthanized. We must consider that such transmissions could happen between humans, if the virus mutates."

    But perhaps most challenging to the mainstream assumption that Ebola can only be spread through physical contact with a person who is showing symptoms of infection is the following explanation by two national experts on infectious disease transmission, both professors in the School of Public Health, Division of Environmental and Occupational Health Sciences, at the University of Illinois at Chicago (footnotes omitted):

    "We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks. [Aerosols are liquids or small particles suspended in air. An example is sea spray:  seawater suspended in air bubbles, created by the force of the surf mixing water with air.]

    The important points are that virus-laden bodily fluids may be aerosolized and inhaled while a person is in proximity to an infectious person and that a wide range of particle sizes can be inhaled and deposited throughout the respiratory tract."

    snip

    "There is also some experimental evidence that Ebola and other filoviruses can be transmitted by the aerosol route. Jaax et alreported the unexpected death of two rhesus monkeys housed approximately 3 meters from monkeys infected with Ebola virus, concluding that respiratory or eye exposure to aerosols was the only possible explanation.

    Experimental studies have demonstrated that it is possible to infect non-human primates and other mammals with filovirus aerosols. [Ebola is a type of filovirus]

    Altogether, these epidemiologic and experimental data offer enough evidence to suggest that Ebola and other filoviruses may be opportunistic with respect to aerosol transmission. That is, other routes of entry may be more important and probable, but, given the right conditions, it is possible that transmission could also occur via aerosols.

    Link

    Yeah. I know. None of these people are scientists...

    lol

    Parent

    The man who was infected wasn't a scientist (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:38:29 PM EST
    and if the virus was spread by aerosol that wouldn't explain why the control monkeys in the experiment I excerpted from(which was by scientists Unless the results with the 2 rhesus monkeys can be replicated with rhesus monkeys or another species of primate used for Ebola research, then it is a result that means nothing.  That's how science works.

    Glad I could clear this up for you.


    Parent

    And, as it was noted in that earlier (none / 0) (#113)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:43:14 PM EST
    article I posted it seems that pigs can transmit Ebola by aerosol, but the study done with the macaques used more animals and thus is more indicative of a lack of an aerosol transmission route primate to primate.

    Parent
    Heh (1.00 / 1) (#136)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:30:21 AM EST
    Jaax et alreported the unexpected death of two rhesus monkeys housed approximately 3 meters from monkeys infected with Ebola virus, concluding that respiratory or eye exposure to aerosols was the only possible explanation.


    Parent
    Heh yourself (none / 0) (#145)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:06:18 AM EST

    Kobinger's current research demonstrated that infected macaques were unable to transmit the virus to uninfected macaques without direct contact. The study used the species responsible for the current epidemic of 1,700+ human infections.The two groups of primates were near enough where aerosols could have spread the virus through the air, but they were not able to touch. While the infected macaques died in under a week, the other two never contracted the virus.



    Parent
    Of COURSE he knows ... (none / 0) (#111)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:42:03 PM EST
    ... what he was doing.  Do you enjoy stating the obvious, or is it that you can only win your own, silly, straw arguments?

    What he doesn't know is how he caught the disease.  What he doesn't know is how the disease can be (or can't be) transmitted.  Probably why he stated it as a belief that it was a possibility, as opposed to your claim.

    BTW - The Canadian study that you keep going back to was conducted by real scientists.  Actually, the very same scientist who, in a follow-up study found no evidence that sick macaques could give the virus to healthy monkeys through airborne particles.  Not to mention all the other studies that reached the same conclusion - that Ebola cannot be transmitted through the air.

    But you want to hang your hat on a pig study and a sick cameraman that said they believe it might be possible.

    Heh.

    Parent

    heh heh (1.00 / 1) (#137)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:30:49 AM EST
    Jaax et alreported the unexpected death of two rhesus monkeys housed approximately 3 meters from monkeys infected with Ebola virus, concluding that respiratory or eye exposure to aerosols was the only possible explanation.


    Parent
    Ignoring the study from the ... (none / 0) (#164)
    by Yman on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 12:53:11 PM EST
    ... very same scientist which found no evidence to support your silly theory is funny?

    Like watching a child stick their fingers in their ears screaming " I can't hear you!" when confronted with reality.

    Parent

    That's the same study I referenced earlier (none / 0) (#114)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:48:34 PM EST
    Yours is from the primary source, and it's the same material I referenced earlier.

    I do wish James would use the links and read the material instead of just ignoring it in favor of his unsupported speculation that Ebola can be transmitted by aerosols.

    Parent

    Do you think your keeping track of (none / 0) (#85)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:24:11 PM EST
    Jim's comments in order to refute them serves any useful purpose?

    Parent
    I don't (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 07:47:57 AM EST
    know why anyone bothers. Jim is a hysteria junkie who thinks the world is going to end tomorrow because of X, Y or Z. It's all gloom and doom and the Jims of the world believe rumor and conjecture over fact and science. You know how Bush used to use the phrase "they say". Well, "they say" is the same as some sort of proven fact in the minds of Republicans.

    Parent
    Virtue should not be left (none / 0) (#128)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 08:12:15 AM EST
    To stand alone.

    Confucius

    Parent

    Except climate change will not end his world. (none / 0) (#130)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:00:32 AM EST
    Speaking of wild statements, Oculus (none / 0) (#138)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:41:52 AM EST
    I have never argued that climate change doesn't happen.

    My point is that man made global warming is a hoax.

    And the fact is that warming has been plateaued now for some 16 years or so.

    As Dr Jones, a real scientist, wrote:

    This is from an Australian at BMRC (not Neville Nicholls). It began from the attached

        article. What an idiot. The scientific community would come down on me in no
        uncertain terms if I said the world had cooled from 1998. OK it has but it is only
        7 years of data and it isn't statistically significant.

    snip

    As you
        know, I'm not political. If anything, I would like to see the climate change happen,
        so the science could be proved right, regardless of the consequences.

    Link

    BTW - That was 7/5/2005, nine years ago and the time frame is now 16 years... I think you can call that a trend.

    Parent

    You can also call (none / 0) (#151)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:47:47 AM EST
    this a trend.

    The Cotopaxi Glacier, which sits on top of one of the world's tallest active volcanoes located in Ecuador, is melting at an accelerating rate. The glacier shrank in mass by 30% between 1956 and 1976 and another 38.5% between 1976 and 2006.

    Who are we suppose to believe, you or those lying glaciers?

    Parent

    Maybe like the snows (1.00 / 2) (#183)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:30:06 PM EST
    of Kilimanjaro melting  because of dust....

    Facts are that the increase has plateaued...

    BTW - During the "world is gonna freeze" kerfunkle pushed by the previous hoaxers placing coal dust on glaciers to make them melt was advanced as a solution...

    Parent

    Gotta link from some source? (none / 0) (#199)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 04:18:21 PM EST
    Or will the evidence be forthcoming after the monkeys make their escape?

    Parent
    If it gives Yman a sense of well being (1.00 / 2) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:30:08 PM EST
    by being my shadow and failing to do what he claims then I am happy to be of service.

    Parent
    Here's a question for you, oculus: (none / 0) (#124)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 07:11:07 AM EST
    generally speaking, what happens when false information is allowed to stand as if it were true?

    The answers to that question - in case you don't feel like providing your own - are all around us.  Look at Fox News - a place where you can find the kind of fractured, outright false,  pseudoscience jim peddles here.  Millions of people believe the garbage they produce there.  

    How did we get sold a war?  By the failure of enough voices to refute what was being told to us - failure by the media to challenge and question and provide a forum for opposition.

    jim is not the media, and I know we all go through periods of thinking that maybe, if we just ignore him, he'll go away - but he doesn't.  I get that he's never going to admit that he's wrong or that others are right, but I think for some of us, to leave him free to post nonsense unchallenged and unrefuted just makes no sense.

    And remember one other thing: we have no idea how many people read here but never comment.  How many times have you seen someone pop up and say they've been reading here for years, and learned so much, and want to say this or that?  If people are reading and learning here, why would we want them to learn what jim's teaching?  Doesn't failing to challenge him allow his comments to stand as if they are true?

    Parent

    My answer. It isn't a good plan to accept as true (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:04:13 AM EST
    what anonymous posters write in comments here. Don't trust. Verify.

    Parent
    Anne... (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:56:44 AM EST
    ...while I totally agree, I highly doubt Jim is changing any minds at TL.  I mean seriously.

    I did want to offer this, considering that the person with Ebola in Dallas, was being considered for criminal charges in the US and Nigeria, there is an excellent incentive for future carriers to lie, especially if they were less than honest on their import/export documentation.  Not letting people leave who are high risk is great, but it's the honor system, and when that is put up against possibility of dying, people are going to lie.

    So maybe the journalist knows, maybe he doesn't, maybe he's honest, maybe he isn't, but whatever he says does not qualify as evidence, nor should it be used as proof that the scientific community is wrong.

    I don't think we should be freaking out, but the virus has already mutated some thing like 45 times, and I think it's best we be prepared just in case.  

    While I don't know, it seems very odd that the rooms and gear I see on the TV look like they are made to deter airborne transmission.  If people in the know, with advanced degrees, are being overly precautious, it wouldn't hurt for us to do the same.

    I don't like that we don't seem to have any kind of national plan in case this gets serious.  The hospital in Dallas is prime example, here are people who should know, not following any sort of protocol for people who show particular symptoms coming from particular areas.  Why not, that should be a CDC directive, "Here is what to look for and here is what to do."  Same for the general public, "Here is what you should do, who you should call, what you should avoid, and why it's important."  Followed by a detailed explanation of how the disease is spread and why it's raging through Africa and most importantly, why not to freak out.

    A commercial a night during the national news or someone other transmission so people are aware and not freaking out because the media is implying we are all going to die.

    Parent

    Wow. (none / 0) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:45:16 PM EST
    I guess the window pane finally kicked in, huh?

    Parent
    Too crptic. Please explain this comment. (none / 0) (#132)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:06:50 AM EST
    Window pane (none / 0) (#154)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:52:20 AM EST
    is a reference to LSD.

    Parent
    Stove it? (none / 0) (#139)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:45:42 AM EST
    Dallas Ebola patient has died. (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Angel on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:25:04 AM EST
    Not surprising (none / 0) (#8)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:06:43 AM EST
    as he was on a resporator and had dialysis because of kidney failure yesterday.  

    Parent
    A rising tide lifts all boats, (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 12:22:34 PM EST
    and, in some places, a lot more.

    Sounds like one of my puns KeysDan. (none / 0) (#25)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 01:33:06 PM EST
    I did manage to see different hours of the eclipse until it sunk below the palm trees and I sunk back into my bed which both cats had immediately occupied.  I think I read that animals fear eclipses.  Anyway it was pure white down here during the various stages of eclipsing, that I saw, and was not blood red nor orange as my California friends said their non eclipsed moon was.  The tide was very high and still is which must mean it's very low somewhere else.  I would have to research that one...Ha.

    Parent
    Blood moon here (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:52:34 PM EST
    Good Gravy... (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:08:20 PM EST
    ...if I am reading the right, Peterson told someone that worked at the courthouse he smoked weed right before a drug test ?

    According to FOX 26 in Houston, Vikings running back Adrian Peterson faces an arrest for violating the terms of his bond due to an admission that he smoked marijuana -- and possibly due to the outcome of testing of the urine sample he thereafter provided.

    Per the report, Peterson allegedly told a courthouse employee that Peterson "smoked a little weed" before providing a sample on Wednesday.  Prosecutors have requested that Peterson's bond be rescinded, and that he be arrested. LINK

    Wonder if he will remain in exemption status while in jail.

    It should get rescinded (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:15:03 PM EST
    for being stupid.

    Parent
    Your Old Stomping Grounds... (none / 0) (#187)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:42:40 PM EST
    ...Conroe.

    Wonder how the NFL is going to handle an exempt player in jail testing positive for a banned substance.  They have to suspend him.  I forget what first offense is, a game or two, which for Peterson around $1M a game.

    The Vikings can let him go as they have already paid him 30-some million that was guaranteed.  They will save money dropping a guy that will not play this year.

    Parent

    The Market Responds... (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:44:43 PM EST
    Colorado Cannabis Confectioners roll out the Maureen Dowd Series of edibles for novices.  

    I just hope they are clearly marked so I don't buy any buy mistake;)

    On a related note, my teetotaler older sister finally tried the sacrament for the first time in her 43rd year on Planet Earth.  Well sort of...I brought a couple peanut butter nut cannabis cookies to the Phil Lesh show for her specifically, and she ate maybe a couple crumbs before chickening out.  Maybe she reads Dowd?

    I swear, with 3 pothead brothers, there must have been a mix-up at the hospital with my dear old sis;)  

    This is weird ..... (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by NYShooter on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:54:11 PM EST
    Sorry, off topic, but,

    JERALYN, WE NEED ANOTHER OPEN THREAD PLEASE.

    My post from today's NY Times

    "White Police Officer Kills Black Teenager in St. Louis on Wednesday night"

    A shooting involving a white police officer and a black teenager occurred just a few miles from Ferguson. Seventeen shots from the officer's gun insured that the teenager was dead.

    Of course, a white cop killing a black kid isn't "weird" at all." It seems to be happening with a startling frequency. But, I read about this incident yesterday, and, the questions I had then remain unanswered today. The police chief says that the teenager instigated the shootout by firing a pistol at the officer first. He said that three shots were discharged, but, then the teenager's gun jammed.

    Naturally, this incident is, eerily, reminiscent of the Brown/Wilson affair of the recent past. Witnesses claim that the boy was armed with only a sandwich and that the killing was totally unwarranted.

    What's "weird" is that 24 hours later we don't have the answer to whether a gun was found on, or near, the boy's body.

    Isn't the answer to that question the very first thing any observer would want answered?


    More (none / 0) (#200)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 04:30:23 PM EST
    Link

    Authorities found the gun, which appeared to have jammed after firing at least three rounds, at the scene, police said. Three bullets that had been fired toward the officer were also recovered. One bullet was found in a vehicle behind the officer. Trajectories showed they had been fired downhill at the officer, police said.

    Police initially identified the gun as a 9 mm Ruger. But a police source told the Post-Dispatch that the gun Myers fired at the officer was a 9 mm Smith & Wesson, which was bought at Cabela's in Hazelwood on May 5. It was then reported stolen Sept. 26 by a man from The Ville neighborhood. The owner told police that one of his sons stole the gun. When questioned, the son claimed the gun was stolen from him during a robbery that he did not report to police. It's unclear how Myers acquired the weapon, police said.

    And, if he truly was holding "just a sandwich" he obviously didn't deserve to be killed, but if he really was firing a gun, this was allegedly not his first involvement with guns and the police:

    Court records show that Myers was scheduled to stand trial in November for unlawful use of a weapon and resisting arrest. This summer, Myers was a passenger in a car involved in a high-speed car chase in St. Louis, officials say. The car crashed just after midnight on June 27 in the 1100 block of South Grand Boulevard. Myers got out of the car, and a police officer yelled at him to stop. Instead, Myers ran off and tossed a gun into a sewage drain. Police caught him nearby and recovered the gun, a loaded .380-caliber pistol.

    Myers was jailed for a few days. Then, in early July, Myers was released on bail after posting $1,000 cash bond. His bail originally was set at $30,000 by Judge Rex Burlison but was dropped to $10,000 after Judge Theresa Counts Burke agreed with a defense motion that it was excessive. Burke allowed Myers to post 10 percent of that in cash. A second judge upheld that bond amount later.

    Very strange why this isn't getting the same attention as Michael Brown.

    Parent

    Interesting history on the gun . . . (none / 0) (#201)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 04:39:07 PM EST
    Seems pretty cut and dried: (none / 0) (#202)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 04:39:52 PM EST
    Three bullets that had been fired toward the officer were also recovered. One bullet was found in a vehicle behind the officer.


    Parent
    The Far Right nuts? (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 06:17:13 PM EST
    You are defending the administrations lackadaisical handling of the Ebola problem for the same reason the Far Right defended Reagan's handling of AIDS.
    Politics.

    Again, the human lie detector and mind reader strikes out.

    Dallas Ebola patient has died. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Angel on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:24:38 AM EST
    Jeralyn, please delete as I failed to preview (none / 0) (#4)
    by Angel on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:31:02 AM EST
    before posting.  

    Parent
    Some incredibly unsympathic (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:12:05 PM EST
    comments to the article I read. Such as, good, now he can explain to God why he lied on his Liberian immigration form.

    Parent
    Some incredibly unsympathic (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:12:31 PM EST
    comments to the article I read. Such as, good, now he can explain to God why he lied on his Liberian immigration form.

    Parent
    Well, that's what happens when you lie (1.00 / 2) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 05:16:08 PM EST
    and put others at risk.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 05:24:32 PM EST
    he should have stayed where he belonged to die quickly and without complaint.  

    Such a humanitarian you are.

    Parent

    Yes, Howdy (1.00 / 2) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:26:20 PM EST
    I believe that a man should do the right thing.

    He knew he had been exposed.

    He lied.

    That was wrong.

    Sorry, but no humanitarian would condone such actions.

    You know. Taking self serving actions that threaten others.

    Parent

    I was the one (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:41:08 PM EST
    who said he should be prosecuted if he lied to the healthcare folks.

    But I don't feel the need to dance on his grave.  The truth is, if I had been in his position, facing almost certain death if he stayed there, I might have done the same thing.  And so would you.

    Parent

    I am not dancing on his grave (1.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:41:43 PM EST
    but criticizing his actions is not an un humanitarian position.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 05:25:10 PM EST
    he should have stayed where he belonged to die quickly and without complaint.  
    As we all know you certainly would have done.

    Such a humanitarian you are.

    Parent

    Weird (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 05:27:24 PM EST
    how dI'd that happen.  Feel free to delete one oF those.  Browser has been weird all day.  Google isn't working.  Using bing.  Is Google working for others?

    Think I know the answer to that.

    Parent

    My duplicate post went viral. (none / 0) (#74)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 06:38:04 PM EST
    That I could understand (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 06:59:31 PM EST
    mine is not a duplicate

    Parent
    Yes, Howdy (none / 0) (#141)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:54:55 AM EST
    I would have done the moral thing.

    It is called being an adult with proper values and concerns for people around you.

    Parent

    jim, amigo mio... (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by fishcamp on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 11:46:25 AM EST
    everybody lies.

    Parent
    No, everyone doesn't lie (none / 0) (#192)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:49:26 PM EST
    about life and death things.

    Parent
    How About if It Was Your Kid... (none / 0) (#147)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:09:02 AM EST
    ...or grand kid ?  Would you lie about them being possibly exposed to get them home ?  I don't know, but staying in Liberia isn't a very good option either.

    I get what you are saying, but I think when you start putting one's death against lying on a form at the airport, you are going to find many more lie than not.  And prosecuting the liars is only going to make figuring out how they got it even more difficult.

    Parent

    No Scott (1.00 / 3) (#190)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:48:12 PM EST
    I wouldn't. And that would be hard but I understand the moral principles that you don't do something that can harm someone else... maybe many someones.

    And in this case he knew head been exposed and why the question was asked.

    But you make a good point.

    And prosecuting the liars is only going to make figuring out how they got it even more difficult

    The answer is simple. Shut the door. No US air carriers and no one in on a west Africa country passport or anywhere else who has been to one of inflicted countries in the last month.

    Parent

    Shutting the door could make matters worse (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 04:04:58 PM EST
    you're going to have to start tracking people traveling everywhere. AKA, we're all Ebola terrorists now . . .

    Parent
    Probably best to have the temp. (none / 0) (#203)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 05:29:55 PM EST
    of everyone in the U.S.taken wirelessly and continuously. With big brother Continuously monitoring the required TV transmission.

    Parent
    And Yet You Advocate... (5.00 / 6) (#198)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 04:17:35 PM EST
    ...the killing of innocent children in the vicinity of enemy bombs.  Call me stymied.

    I do love when you promote how great you are, that above all is your noblest trait, very christian of you.

    Parent

    Did you pack your bags yoursself? (none / 0) (#148)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:24:40 AM EST
    Trip Advisor

    Seems quaint now.

    Parent

    You are so full of sh!t (none / 0) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:25:09 AM EST
    you have no more idea what you would do in that case than I do.  

    Parent
    Actually Howdy at the age of 76 (none / 0) (#195)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:51:08 PM EST
    I have given a great deal of thought to what I would do in various situations.

    And you should.

    Parent

    South Dakota senate race in play? (none / 0) (#5)
    by jtaylorr on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:35:22 AM EST
    Independent Larry Pressler 3 points behind Republican Mike Rounds, 35% to 32%. Democrat Weiland at 28%. Pressler is a former Republican but has run a very centrist campaign. Of course it's very likely Dems would be in the lead right now if Stephanie Herseth Sandlin hadn't passed on the race after Daschle endorsed Weiland. Hope Daschle is happy knowing his legacy will be as a tax cheat and the guy who lost Dems their SD senate seat.

    best news (none / 0) (#6)
    by CST on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:47:05 AM EST
    I've seen in a while.

    "The Energy Department report said that the latest forecasts of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration for the coming winter, which it noted could change, show much warmer weather than last winter east of the Rocky Mountains. The Midwest is predicted to be 16 percent warmer, the South 12 percent warmer and the Northeast 11 percent warmer."

    Well, to each his own I guess (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 12:31:51 PM EST
    this is bad news to Florida! Well, to me in FL anyway.

    Parent
    Yes I see what you mean (none / 0) (#28)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 01:39:33 PM EST
    I hadn't read CST's link and their predictions regarding Key West and the other areas in that region.

    That would definitely not be good.

    Parent

    Great news (none / 0) (#7)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:02:23 AM EST
    Especially because everything I've seen said to expect more snow than last year here on the east coast.

    I'll take your news over that!

    Parent

    We would welcome snow this year in CA (none / 0) (#9)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:10:59 AM EST
    not just in the Sierras and other mountain ranges but anywhere if it doesn't cause any flooding.😀

    Parent
    As far as I'm concerned, (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:50:59 AM EST
    CA can have all the snow that was scheduled to fall here. I hereby cede it to you free of charge and with my best wishes. ;-D

    Parent
    I'll take both! (none / 0) (#11)
    by CST on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:12:38 AM EST
    Warmer weather AND more snow.

    Around these parts those two things tend to go hand in hand.  It snows a lot more at 30 degrees than it does at 20, and even a "warmer" winter is still cold.  Also we tend to get lots of snow all at once.  I'll take 30 degree weather for a week with 1 foot of snow in a night, over 20 degree weather for a week and no snow.  East coast cold is the worst.  I was in CO for a week last winter, and it was -7, I came home to 20 degree weather in Boston.  Boston felt so much colder than CO did.

    Further south it may mean less snow more rain for you guys.

    Parent

    I LIKE cold (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:22:35 AM EST
    Not freezing, but cool.  Fall is the best time, IMO - wearing sweaters and jeans.  I'm really over summer clothes.

    And I don't mind snow, except an inch or two seems to shut this city down and make drivers lose their minds.  It's amazing, since probably at least HALF the people here grew up someplace where it snows - they should KNOW how to drive!

    Parent

    Oh I love the fall (none / 0) (#15)
    by CST on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:50:47 AM EST
    The fall is cool not cold though.  Sweaters and jeans and hot coffee and snuggling up under the blankets is great.  

    But when the temperature drops below 25, fugettaboutit.  It doesn't help that Boston is one of the windiest cities in America, so you can be wearing 6 layers of clothes and it won't matter.

    The driving thing is not as much of an issue up here.  When it really snows, we don't get 2 inches, we get 12 and people just don't drive till it's plowed; although I've driven in a blizzard or two out of necessity, you try to avoid it as much as possible.  I agree with Anne though, sleet/icy rain is the real problem on the roads.

    Parent

    Yes, layers only go so far (none / 0) (#31)
    by ZtoA on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 02:20:39 PM EST
    Last winter I had to travel from balmy (26-32 degree) PDX to -22 windy chicago. My sister insisted that I take her, long ago purchased - non PC, full length black mink coat.

    I was never cold while wearing that. It was amazing. Fur is much warmer than down.

    Parent

    We tend to be on the rain/snow line, (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:26:18 AM EST
    which can often mean more sleet, freezing rain and ice - and I would take a foot of snow any day in place of ice-glazed roads, trees crashing from the weight of ice, and power outages from downed wires...

    Parent
    I truly hope they are right (none / 0) (#12)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 11:19:57 AM EST
    I had been hearing that we would experience a bad winter this year in the Midwest and I was dreading it. Hate being cold and hate having to bundle up to the point that I look like an overweight bear. Oh and did I happen to mention that more than anything else I hate snow and ice on my driveway and the streets.

    Parent
    Back in grad school I worked with a climatologist (none / 0) (#18)
    by Farmboy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 12:24:40 PM EST
    for a semester developing curriculum. My takeaway on his attitude toward long-term weather forecasts by meteorologists: somewhere between fanfic and hype.

    The further into the future you go the less you can predict based on what's happening this year. You have to look at historical data trends based on location and date.

    So the chances of rain tomorrow: easy to assign a probability. Chances of a bitterly cold January: always cloudy, the future is. Uncertain.

    Parent

    Yes, I understand it is a crap shoot (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 01:34:24 PM EST
    but I happen to like this long range forecast and dislike the one where the Midwest  would have a bitterly cold winter with lots of snow and ice.

    So I will root for this forecast to be correct. Doesn't cost me anything and  makes me cringe less at the thought of winter approaching.

    Parent

    The (none / 0) (#29)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 01:59:57 PM EST
    Old Farmer's Almanac, while not scientific, correctly predicted last year's heaps of snow and cold and predict it again for this year.

    With its traditionally 80 percent-accurate weather forecasts, The Old Farmer's Almanac predicts that this winter will be another arctic blast with above-normal snowfall throughout much of the nation. The extreme weather will continue into Summer 2015, which is expected to be predominantly hot and dry.

    An 80% success rate seems to be better than the National Weather Service these days....

    Parent

    Thanks, Debbie Downer (none / 0) (#32)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 02:40:06 PM EST
    As a dyed in the wool liberal,  I plan to maintain my status and root for the underdog, the National Weather Service. ;-D

    Parent
    Over Farmers??? :) (none / 0) (#33)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 02:42:35 PM EST
    Let's see (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 02:47:55 PM EST
    Farmers say long hard winter with lots of snow...

    Yep, definitely over Farmers. Probably written by a faming conglomerate now  anyway. ;-D

    For the humor impaired that was a joke.

    Parent

    No offense to the old farmers, but (none / 0) (#38)
    by Farmboy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:28:57 PM EST
    I'll stick with recorded data, science, and math instead of zodiacal configurations* as a basis for my weather information.

    *by their own admission they consider the alignment of the planets as a part of their forecasting process.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:39:06 PM EST
    FWIW, the government missed the boat - big time - last year, while the Almanac got it right.

    But this conversation was supposed to be all in fun, and not taken as seriously as some would like to.

    Parent

    Has there ever been a rigorous (none / 0) (#40)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:36:25 PM EST
    study to determine how accurate they are?  

    80% is pretty impressive,  which means I'm skeptical that they have some weird process that outperforms conventional science.


    Parent

    Bunions (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:38:55 PM EST
    and arthritic joints.  

    Parent
    I always figured it was quasi-scientific (none / 0) (#49)
    by CST on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:53:34 PM EST
    Like measuring the thickness of wolf fur

    Or something like that.

    Parent

    Persimmon seeds (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:02:10 PM EST
    i discovered recently a new one.  Predicting the winter with persimmon seeds.  From our resident ancient family weather turtle.  It works this way

    Cut open a persimmon seed. (Find persimmon fruit in your supermarket. It should be locally-grown to reflect your weather.)

    Look at the shape of the kernel inside.

    If the kernel is spoon-shaped, lots of heavy, wet snow will fall. Spoon = shovel!
    If it is fork-shaped, you can expect powdery, light snow and a mild winter.
    If the kernel is knife-shaped, expect to be "cut" by icy, cutting winds.
    It's best to use ripe seeds.

    ---

    Goes without saying we are drowning in spoon shaped kernels around here.  

    LINK

    Parent

    Various (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:06:50 PM EST
    From what the web says after searching, (none / 0) (#57)
    by Farmboy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:21:20 PM EST
    there's enough vagueness to the OFA predictions that they probably are 80% accurate - by their own standards.

    "They say from November 5 thru 10, for that whole period: sunny/cool. If one day is sunny and cool, does that count? Does every day have to be sunny and cool? If you held them to every single word for the entire area and every word for the entire period, then I say they might not even be right one third of the time. In fact, they might be right 10 percent of the time." Acknowledges Knight, "I don't think they're holding themselves to that degree of accuracy, and I don't think other people are either."

    "I could say things like October 8 to 15 in this area: generally dry, very cool weather expected; first frost and freezes in the valleys. And I would be right probably eight out of 10 years," says Knight. "I could say February 12 to 19: heavy snow along parts of the eastern seaboard. I'm going to be right seven out of 10 years. There is some relative frequency to these things, but to say that this is of great scientific accuracy would be a real misnomer."

    source

    Parent

    From the NO&AA to... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 12:39:53 PM EST
    Mother Nature's ears...haven't had to kick the boiler on yet for heat.  Was only tempted one night.

    Seems awfully green out there still for 2nd week of October.  The older I get, the more cold gets old.  After getting gypped out of a hot summer, I'll take a mild fall and winter as a consolation prize.

    Parent

    I hope this is true (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:33:19 PM EST
    but I was surprised to see it.   It contradicts every other forecast I have seen for the coming winter.

    including this one

    But it's easy to find more of the same of you google.
    Let's hope for once the govt knows what it's talking about.

    Parent

    I see someone already (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:36:54 PM EST
    posted an almanac link.  Like I said, plenty more a Google away.  
    But it's area by area.  My area is in the bullseye of the worst.   Supposedly not as bad in some other places.

    Parent
    Will note (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:44:43 PM EST
    that the part about Midwesterners using way less propane is definitely the opposite of everything else I've heard including from the local propane companies who are sending out letters telling or people to fill up early and often.
    There was major shortage issues last year.

    Parent
    Well we here in the Midwest (none / 0) (#135)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:23:02 AM EST
    should hope there is not a lot of ice and snow. From what I am reading, there is a shortage of salt and the other substances that are used on the roads. Price are forecasted to be sky high for what is available and reports indicate there will not be enough if we get a bad winter.


    Parent
    Here is a collection (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:07:26 PM EST
    Justice stays Ninth Circuit re same sex (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 12:39:51 PM EST
    marriage:  CSM

    Justice Kennedy (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 12:40:50 PM EST
    Idaho and Nevada

    Parent
    Might only be a few days (none / 0) (#30)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 02:06:55 PM EST
    Link

    The delay could last just a few days. Kennedy's order requested a response from the plaintiffs involved in Idaho's gay marriage lawsuit by the end of Thursday.

    The full court almost certainly would weigh in to extend the delay much beyond the weekend. That has been the justices' practice in other cases in which a single justice initially blocked a ruling from taking effect.



    Parent
    It was only Idaho that asked for a stay (none / 0) (#36)
    by Peter G on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:06:11 PM EST
    The emergency order issued by Justice Kennedy early this morning apparently contained a clerical error which made it appear to apply to Nevada as well.  That has now been corrected (as of mid-Wednesday afternoon). Same-sex marriages are going forward in Nevada, because the state government of Nevada has accepted the decision. Idaho officials have the benefit of a temporary stay (at least), as they should, if they intend to pursue their appeal, however long a shot that may be. It is harder to undo marriages that are later invalidated, than for folks who have been waiting for their rights for years to continue waiting another few weeks ... from a legal point of view.

    Parent
    And it's Idaho (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:49:06 PM EST
    Idaho.  Oh to be a fly on the wall for some of that teeth gnashing.

    Parent
    What did I miss? (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:09:00 PM EST
    Yes, it's Idaho.  Or, as a friend says, one of those states that ends with an "O."

    Parent
    Do you know anything about Idaho? (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:17:03 PM EST
    Very little. Sun Valley. (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:21:34 PM EST
    Potatoes. Coeur de Liene (sp.). Nez Pierce. Lewis & Clark. Favorite retirement location for law enforcement officers.

    Parent
    Idaho (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:26:36 PM EST

    POCATELLO -- On a per capita basis, only Montana leads Idaho as the state with the most number of right wing extremist groups, says a sociologist who has studied the so-called hate groups.

    Jim Aho, an Idaho State University sociology professor, said when he did his research on the Christian patriot groups, he assumed that such groups would be more prevalent in the deep South.

    He was surprised to learn otherwise.



    Parent
    Retired law enforcement huh (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:29:05 PM EST
    That's news to me and explains a lot.

    Parent
    And then there's Boise (none / 0) (#61)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:31:55 PM EST
    And of course (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:46:01 PM EST
    i have relatives there.  Including one that was one the primary reasons I started a new FaceBook page.

    Parent
    Only what ... (none / 0) (#91)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:50:38 PM EST
    ... the B-52s told us about it. ;-D

    Parent
    Lots of LDS. (none / 0) (#56)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:19:16 PM EST
    and not enough (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 05:05:54 PM EST
    LSD

    Parent
    One of our most beautiful states. (none / 0) (#69)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 05:37:26 PM EST
    Spent a summer there, back in the day.

    Parent
    Indeed it is (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 06:00:42 PM EST
    been there a few times.  But to quote Rust Chole "you can smell the psychosphere"

    Parent
    How can the 9th Circuit be so (none / 0) (#73)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 06:14:02 PM EST
    large and keep track of everything including itself?  Doesn't it go way past Hawaii to other islands?

    Parent
    Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals: (none / 0) (#116)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:58:34 PM EST
    Periodically, the 9th Circuit's sheer size (none / 0) (#166)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 01:38:16 PM EST
    is evaluated (some might say "cussed & discussed.) Lots of serious looks at dividing the Circuit ... and, then, the subject quiets down.

    Parent
    What I don't get about ebola (none / 0) (#37)
    by ragebot on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:13:14 PM EST
    is what is different this time.

    Always before there were a few folks who died a horrible death and it just went away.  This time more folks have died than in all past outbreaks combined and it seems to have spread well out of small out of the way places in Africa.

    So what makes this outbreak so different in terms of number of deaths and the location of those deaths.

    I hear lots of talking heads blabbing about ebola but none have addressed these issues.

    Speaking of weather (none / 0) (#45)
    by CST on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:48:30 PM EST
    Has anyone else noticed the lack of hurricanes this year?

    Usually by now we've had at least one threatening to hit the east coast.  Or a tropical storm.

    Not that I'm complaining...

    Apparently very busy (none / 0) (#47)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 03:51:45 PM EST
    In the Pacific.  They are up to storms starting with "S", while we're only up to "E" in the Atlantic.

    Parent
    Just reading about this (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 04:15:34 PM EST
    Sea surface temperatures play a major role on the weather across the globe.  A big part of our weather here in Connecticut is the El Nino and La Nina weather patterns.  While La Nina is described as cooler than normal sea surface temperatures in the Pacific and the typical winter is dryer and milder with the occasional short lived cold periods.  The other end of the spectrum is El Nino, warmer than average sea surface temperatures.  Typically a wetter winter, with longer cold periods and more frequent storms.  Below is a map of the current sea surface temperatures in the Pacific ocean.  It's tough to see, but temperatures are 2-4 degrees Celsius above normal for this time of the year.  This would indicate an El Nino pattern.  This is a big part of the reason why the Pacific Hurricane season has been relatively active which I will cover in one of the next slides.  But how strong or weak? There are three types of patterns, weak, moderate and strong.  Check out the next slide, I explain the El Nino pattern!

    link


    Parent

    And that was ten storms ago. Hurricane / Tropical Storm Simon has provided SoCal with some wicked surf this week.

    Parent
    Raven Symone (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 05:49:25 PM EST
    this is an interesting kerfuffle

    I know next to nothing about this person.  I never saw her TV show.  I probably saw the Cosby Show but that was not a period in my life that included TV.  But what she said, that she did not like being tagged "gay" and she would prefer being called an American to being called an African American, is something I can understand and relate to.
    I have never been big on labels.  They tend to be dehumanizing.  After all she is not denying she is gay or black.  I just think it's odd that this seems to have kicked off a "Maher Level" internet bed wetting cycle.

    Labels seem to be very important (none / 0) (#77)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 07:32:54 PM EST
    to some people, but I guess I'd just really like us all to concentrate on the "people" part and less on the label part.

    Because even once we attach the common labels - race, gender, age, marital status, sexual orientation - that really doesn't say much about what kind of people we are. Because really, for me, I don't care about all those other things - I just want to know if someone is a good human being: kind, compassionate, someone who thinks, who likes to learn, who cares about the earth, who feels responsible for his or her own actions.

    So, I can relate to what she's saying.


    Parent

    Thank you (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 07:39:14 PM EST
    yes, exactly.  It's pretty shocking to read some of the hateful stuff being hurled at her.  In the interview video I saw I thought for a moment Oprah was going to walk off the set.   I think she made the reaction worse by her reaction.

    Parent
    My dad, who's parents were off the boat (none / 0) (#121)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 12:33:38 AM EST
    from Ireland and Italy, often said the same thing as Raven:

    "I am an American. Not an Irish American, not an Italian American. I'm an American."

    One of his character-defining stories is that he, one of those prototypical 1st-gen American straight-A students, applied to Harvard. But was denied, as he says, due to being a "niggling minority."

    Who knows if that's accurate or not.

    Anyway, growing up, when asked, I always joked that I was an "American Mutt," (in addition to my dad, my mom's mom was off the boat from Ireland, and her dad was 1st gen, a NY lawyer, of two off the boat Irish immigrants).

    But I totally understand where my dad was coming from.

    Being born in the 60's I could joke about it. My dad, born in the 30's, not so much...

    These days, I agree with my dad about Americans identifying as, simply, Americans. No adjectives necessary.


    Parent

    I too... (none / 0) (#133)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:15:12 AM EST
    have used the phrase "American Mutt" to describe my Irish/Lebanese/Scottish/German lineage.  Followed by "and mutts are much healthier than purebreds!"

    Though I find lineage and heritage an interesting topic, I get what the girl is saying...sometimes I feel that all our self-identifiers and sub-groups are a hinderance to the ultimate goal...equality under the law and dignity for all.  We focus too much on what may divide us, rather than what unites us all.

    That being said, however a person chooses to identify themselves or lack there of is fine by me.  It's a personal thing.

    Parent

    Just my opinion, but I believe that ... (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:50:46 PM EST
    ... our poly-ethnic and multicultural diversity should be celebrated by everyone as THE defining characteristic of our inclusive American society.

    I think it's a damned shame that some calculating cynics would instead wield that same diversity as a political cudgel, by pandering to our worst tribal instincts so that we might continue to fight with one another over often-trivial reasons.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Yup. (none / 0) (#159)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 11:19:29 AM EST
    We focus too much on what may divide us, rather than what unites us all.


    Parent
    OT. Segue: TV. Just read an article (none / 0) (#90)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:45:21 PM EST
    (More google news). Last Sat. was the first Sat. in 50 yrs. (I think) with no cartoon shows on the networks.

    Parent
    Without googling (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 08:56:29 PM EST
    (or really caring) I might guess that depends on you definition of "cartoon".  
    IOW it's hard to believe there were no animated kids shows but "cartoon" has sort of a specific meaning.  Implying cell type animation.

    But I don't really know.

    Parent

    Ah. Must be a "term of (none / 0) (#96)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:22:20 PM EST
    I really thought you'd "care." (none / 0) (#97)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:23:25 PM EST
    Nothing personal (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:38:18 PM EST
    and thanks for caring that I would care but I have never been that interested in sat morning kiddie cartoons.  Even when I was a kid.  I don't even like Disney movies.  Having famously told my interviewers at the Mouse that I had never seen a Disney movie with the sound up.   They loved that.  Turns out there are a lot of people there who don't like Disney movies.

    Parent
    The original "Castaways" was pretty (none / 0) (#101)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:41:18 PM EST
    good.  

    Parent
    It was (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:58:46 PM EST
    in that comment I meant animated Disney movies.  They are beautiful.  I like looking at them.  But I can't stand listening to them.  

    What I love is the old subversive Warner Brothers and Fleischer Brothers stuff.  Tom &  Jerry at its most violent and politically incorrect.  The best thing about spending two years in Canada is that there are several full time animation channels there where they show all the best classic stuff.  The ones that can't be shown here any more because they are to violent or are considered racist or politically incorrect in some other way.  I loved that. It was like seeing old friends again.

    Parent

    I decided to read this translation (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 10:08:11 PM EST
    Of Paul Verlaine's poem, "Cortege" "as is" as a program note to Debussy"s "Petite Suite," the second movement of which is a setting of this poem. Politically incorrect now.

    link

    Parent

    That's probably because the genre's ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:03:13 PM EST
    ... finally been monopolized by Fox News.

    Parent
    I have only seen 15 minutes (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:40:29 PM EST
    of American Horror Story's new season and I can already tell you Jessica Lang is going to have to make room on the shelf for another Emmy.

    Paul Krugman (none / 0) (#103)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 08, 2014 at 09:59:00 PM EST
    writes about the Obama presidency in Rolling Stone

    Lord knows, I love (none / 0) (#118)
    by NYShooter on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 12:17:58 AM EST
    Paul Krugman.  And, having read the Rolling Stone piece, I think he would have made a fantastic Presidential Press Secretary, certainly better than any Obama has had. Also, I can't get too upset about the upbeat tone, and positive deductions, Krugman made regarding his Presidency as I'm positive Paul feels, generally, the same as I, and, many other "one time hopefuls" feel regarding Obama's "more disappointing than necessary" Administration.

    But, like I said, after reading what his other (back-stabbing) "friends" have said, from Gov. Bill Richardson, to Leon Panetta, and, now Jimmie Carter, I find it kind of nice, and, even refreshing, that Obama, near the end of his career, has, at least, one friend who lays out the high points, and, actual accomplishments, of his administration.

    There's plenty of time to pick apart The Rolling Stones article, and, certainly, we'll be doing that here (me included.)  But, it was good of Krugman (a truly harsh Obama critic for most of his Presidency) to set aside the negatives for now, and, feature some of his real, and, important, accomplishments.  


    Parent

    [You really took the lessons re commas to (none / 0) (#119)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 12:26:14 AM EST
    heart!

    Parent
    I know, I, sometimes, wonder (none / 0) (#120)
    by NYShooter on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 12:31:54 AM EST
    about that myself.

    You would do me a great favor by re-writing my comment, with the proper comma usage.

    Wadda you say?

    Parent

    $7.00, clear as a bell. (none / 0) (#122)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 12:38:25 AM EST
    And the Captain of the Titanic (none / 0) (#143)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 09:59:44 AM EST
    had a fine career until.........

    Parent
    What's the iceberg here? (none / 0) (#150)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:42:57 AM EST
    The study showing that Ebola isn't transmitted by aerosols between members of the species responsible for the infection going into the human population?

    All you have are

    A:  The "belief" by someone who knows virtually nothing about how Ebola is transmitted ,that he got it from washing out a vehicle that carried an Ebola victim.

    If somebody who had syphilis told you he/she believed that they got it from a toilet seat, would you believe them?  After all, he/she said that's how they must have gotten it, so it must be true, by the logic you're using here?

    B:  A couple of dead rhesus monkeys, vs. a later study that demonstrated there was no aerosol transmission between macaques, the species that transmitted the organism into the human population.

    Those are the facts.  If you don't like them, that's not my problem.

    Parent

    Tell you what, Jim (none / 0) (#162)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 12:05:13 PM EST
    Maybe you and Uncle Chip can rent an isolated house together, stock it with plenty of food, totally enclose the house with plastic sheeting and duct tape, and do not allow anyone in while you spend your days worrying, taking each other's temperature every half hour and waiting.....waiting.....waiting for Ebola to either sneak in and get you both, or die down.

    Parent
    If Ebola doesn't get them, Mme. Zorba, ... (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 01:46:15 PM EST
    ... the Islamofascists and Commies surely will. Until they can rent that isolated house from Todd and Sarah Palin somewhere in the remote Alaskan bush country, in the meantime they should join the kids in that Geico commercial and hide behind the chainsaws.

    Parent
    Hahahahahaha! (5.00 / 3) (#171)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 02:17:51 PM EST
    Perhaps we could encourage all the Ebola hysterics, the ISIS hysterics, the tin-foil conspirator folks, and all their fellow travelers, to move to Alaska.  We could offer the more reasonable people who live in Alaska help in moving away from there, and then allow the hysterics to go their own way.

    Parent
    I am gonna repeat what I told anne (1.50 / 4) (#204)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 05:56:50 PM EST
    You are defending the administrations lackadaisical handling of the Ebola problem for the same reason the Far Right defended Reagan's handling of AIDS.

    Politics.

    Parent

    Well, this is interesting.... (none / 0) (#125)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 07:30:14 AM EST
    Aides knew of possible White House link to Cartagena, Colombia, prostitution scandal

    As nearly two dozen Secret Service agents and members of the military were punished or fired following a 2012 prostitution scandal in Colombia, Obama administration officials repeatedly denied that anyone from the White House was involved.

    But new details drawn from government documents and interviews show that senior White House aides were given information at the time suggesting that a prostitute was an overnight guest in the hotel room of a presidential advance-team member -- yet that information was never thoroughly investigated or publicly acknowledged.

    And maybe explains some recent Secret Service lapses...???

    Former and current Secret Service agents said they are angry at the White House's public insistence that none of its team members were involved and its private decision to not fully investigate one of its own -- while their colleagues had their careers ruined or hampered.

    Ten members of the Secret Service -- ranging from younger, lower-level officers assigned to rope-line security to seasoned members of a counterassault team -- lost their jobs because of their actions in Cartagena. The agents were told that they jeopardized national security by drinking excessively and having contact with foreign nationals.

    They were treated "radically differently by different parts of the same executive branch," said Larry Berger, a lawyer who represented many of the agents, who were union members of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association.

    Will this take Ruemmler's name off the short list for AG?

    Bill Maher (none / 0) (#127)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 08:02:37 AM EST
    Isn't the Only One Who Misunderstands Religion

    On one hand, people of faith are far too eager to distance themselves from extremists in their community, often denying that religious violence has any religious motivation whatsoever. This is especially true of Muslims, who often glibly dismiss those who commit acts of terror in the name of Islam as "not really Muslim."

    On the other, critics of religion tend to exhibit an inability to understand religion outside of its absolutist connotations. They scour holy texts for bits of savagery and point to extreme examples of religious bigotry, of which there are too many, to generalize about the causes of oppression throughout the world.

    What both the believers and the critics often miss is that religion is often far more a matter of identity than it is a matter of beliefs and practices. The phrase "I am a Muslim," "I am a Christian," "I am a Jew" and the like is, often, not so much a description of what a person believes or what rituals he or she follows, as a simple statement of identity, of how the speaker views her or his place in the world.

    SNIP

    What does this mean, in practical terms? First, simplistic knee-jerk response among people of faith to dismiss radicals in their midst as "not us" must end. Members of the Islamic State are Muslims for the simple fact that they declare themselves to be so. Dismissing their profession of belief prevents us from dealing honestly with the inherent problems of reconciling religious doctrine with the realities of the modern world. But considering that most of its victims are also Muslims -- as are most of the forces fighting and condemning the Islamic State -- the group's self-ascribed Islamic identity cannot be used to make any logical statement about Islam as a global religion.

    At the same time, critics of religion must refrain from simplistic generalizations about people of faith. It is true that in many Muslim countries, women do not have the same rights as men. But that fact alone is not enough to declare Islam a religion that is intrinsically more patriarchal than Christianity or Judaism. (It's worth noting that Muslim-majority nations have elected women leaders on several occasions, while some Americans still debate whether the United States is ready for a female president.)



    More from article (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 12:04:43 PM EST
    As a form of identity, religion is inextricable from all the other factors that make up a person's self-understanding, like culture, ethnicity, nationality, gender and sexual orientation. What a member of a suburban megachurch in Texas calls Christianity may be radically different from what an impoverished coffee picker in the hills of Guatemala calls Christianity. The cultural practices of a Saudi Muslim, when it comes to the role of women in society, are largely irrelevant to a Muslim in a more secular society like Turkey or Indonesia. The differences between Tibetan Buddhists living in exile in India and militant Buddhist monks persecuting the Muslim minority known as the Rohingya, in neighboring Myanmar, has everything to do with the political cultures of those countries and almost nothing to do with Buddhism itself.

    No religion exists in a vacuum. On the contrary, every faith is rooted in the soil in which it is planted. It is a fallacy to believe that people of faith derive their values primarily from their Scriptures. The opposite is true. People of faith insert their values into their Scriptures, reading them through the lens of their own cultural, ethnic, nationalistic and even political perspectives.



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    Or in other words, ... (none / 0) (#172)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 02:45:37 PM EST
    ... Man made God in his own image. And on the seventh day, he held a kegger, invited all the cool kids and they partied hardy, all confident in the knowledge that God would forgive their sins.

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    Here is an HIV Infected Pastor... (none / 0) (#177)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:02:07 PM EST
    ...spreading the love around.

    An Alabama pastor shocked his flock by reportedly confessing from the pulpit that he has AIDS, had slept with church members, used drugs and misused funds. Rev. Juan Demetrius McFarland of Shiloh Missionary Baptist Church in Montgomery confirmed to NBC affiliate WSFA that he made the admissions in a series of sermons that began in September. Deacon Nathan Williams said the deacons voted unanimously to remove McFarland as pastor on Oct. 5, but he refused to step down. LINK

    Spreading sexually transmitted disease in Alabama is a low level misdemeanor, but so far no one has called the cops.  

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    Maher's (none / 0) (#182)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:29:25 PM EST
    pretty heavy-handed with everything he talks about.

    It's the comedic style nowadays. For these jaded, over-stimulated, short attention spanned times. And Maher is a comedian first, not to be confused with some sort of scholarly social commentator or historian.

    His on-target insights about religion seem mostly warmed-over Dawkins-Hitchens et al who in turn read like the poor man's Bertrand Russell from sixty + years ago.

     

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    Live Die Repeat (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 10:08:32 AM EST
    i just saw the Tom Cruise alien invasion/time travel movie Live Die Repeat-Edge of Tomorrow.

    It's really good.  And I am in no way a Curise fan.  It might be titled Groundhog Day In Hell.  Curise is a smarmy military PR man who gets thrown into battle for the first time under less than ideal circumstances. It's funny and well made.  And you get to see Tom Cruise die horribly over and over and over.

    And over.

    If there's any doubt in your mind that ... (none / 0) (#167)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 01:40:08 PM EST
    ... mainstream American journalism has regressed into a collective adolescent state, this article ought to quickly disabuse you of any notion otherwise.

    LOL! (none / 0) (#170)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 02:05:05 PM EST
    Well, despite the fact that there are a lot of well-regarded contributors to The Daily Beast, in a whole lot of ways, they are still way enamored of a certain type of tabloid journalism.  Which, given the background of its former founder and editor, Tina Brown, might not be entirely surprising.
    OTOH, when you are a website that wants to make some money and get "eyeballs," you need to drag those eyeballs in however you can, I suppose.  "If it bleeds, it leads" is not the only cornerstone of tabloid journalism.  Mentioning any "sexy bits" is another way to get some hits.    ;-)

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    Hmmm. Let's try that, and see how it works. (none / 0) (#173)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 02:52:51 PM EST
    "Hey, everybody! Penis! Vagina!"

    Maybe if we can attract enough attention, The Daily Beast will hire us, too.

    ;-D

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    Or...Jeralyn could delete your comment (none / 0) (#175)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 02:57:51 PM EST
    because of the filters that will flag the site on account of the naughty-bits words...

    Dial it back a notch, Big Don.

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    Well, given the fact that (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:14:12 PM EST
    both of those words are correct medical terminology, I'm not so sure that they would be flagged.
    On the other hand, if they are flagged, it would also eliminate any comments in open threads or elsewhere that refer to certain medical conditions that affect both of those body parts.
    Which would be a shame.
    It might also affect certain legal commentary that arises due to a rape case, for instance, given the medical procedures that, at least, should be going on after a woman is raped and has gone to a hospital.
    Google "rape kit."

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    LOL! If word filters pre-set by humans ... (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:21:05 PM EST
    ... object to such terminology, then I'd offer that while mainstream journalism is stunted in adolescence, a whole lot of us are working very hard to maintain standards od decorum set during the Victorian and Edwardian eras.

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    You never know! (none / 0) (#176)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 02:59:30 PM EST
    It might just work.  And at the very least, it might get more hits on Talk Left.  ;-)

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    IRS vs. Artists and Art (none / 0) (#186)
    by ZtoA on Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 03:42:38 PM EST
    link  won't work, but it is from  NYT Oct 6:

    "
    work as an artist was "an activity not engaged in for profit" and that she could not claim tax deductions in excess of the income she made from her art. Further, in a claim that alarmed many in the art world, the I.R.S. contended that Ms. Crile's legal position that she was both an artist and a teacher was "artificial" and that she made art primarily to keep her job as a teacher. (Hunter College requires its studio-art teachers to exhibit their work but does not require them to sell.)

    snip

    But Judge Albert G. Lauber of the tax court ruled Thursday that Ms. Crile had "met her burden of proving that in carrying on her activity as an artist, she had an actual and honest objective of making a profit" and therefore under tax law should be considered a professional artist.

    Continue reading the main storyContinue reading the main storyContinue reading the main story
    Robert Storr, dean of the Yale School of Art, who testified on Ms. Crile's behalf, said Monday that the ability to deduct art-related expenses -- in art careers that might generate little money -- was "one of the last remaining areas where the federal government cuts artists any slack to allow them to do what they do," and that its protection was crucial.
    "