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House Passes Bill to Speed Deportations, End Obama Relief to Dreamers

The House of Representatives Friday passed a new version of the Republican's border bill that will unconscionably speed up deportations of child migrants. The House also passed a separate bill, intended to appease TX Sen. Ted Cruz and the radical right arm of the party, that reverses much of President Obama's executive order granting temporary relief to Dreamers, children who arrived the United States years ago with undocumented parents. Obama's order created a two year deferral on deportation for many of these children. [More...]

Later on Friday, the House also passed a separate bill reversing Obama's 2012 policy suspending deportations of some undocumented residents who were brought to the United States as children years ago by their parents. ....The measure would prohibit those who have already been given a reprieve from deportation from renewing their status when it expires after two years.

The House border bill also provides funding to send the National Guard to the border.

The bill is unlikely to pass the Senate, or to even be considered before September, when Congress returns from vacation. Obama has threatened to veto the bill.

Obama is also preparing to take new executive action on immigration.

Ideas under consideration could include temporary relief for law-abiding undocumented immigrants who are closely related to U.S. citizens or those who have lived in the country a certain number of years — a population that advocates say could reach as high as 5 million.

Obama should follow through with his plans for executive action -- the bolder the better. Republicans will whine no matter what, but he will "cement Hispanic support for the Democratic Party for years to come." It's also the right thing to do.

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    If it wasn't so sad (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:01:18 AM EST
    It would almost be funny that they think the solution is to send the National Guard to intercept people who are really only looking for someone to surrender to.

    Uh Howdy (1.00 / 2) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:04:22 AM EST
    are really only looking for someone to surrender to.

    That's the point. The NG is to keep them OUT. Let Mexico deal with them.

    Parent

    As usual out have no idea (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:20:02 AM EST
    What you are talking about.  That's not even what Perry says their purpose is.  Which is, according to him, to make sure evil drugs or terrorists ( in black ski masks I guess ) are not sneaking in.

    Is it possible that even you would actually think they are just going to point a gun at a child and say go away?

    Parent

    Uh, Jim (none / 0) (#4)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:18:32 AM EST
    That's the point. The NG is to keep them OUT. Let Mexico deal with them.

    No, it's not.  The NG has no power to apprehend or arrest.

    Unlike previous National Guard deployments to the border ordered by the federal government, this one is state-ordered, meaning Texas will foot the bill and the troops will only help enforce state laws. On Tuesday, Maj. Gen. John Nichols, adjutantt general of the Texas Military Forces, told state lawmakers the guardsmen will staff observation posts, fly helicopter missions and back up agents of the Texas Department of Public Safety, who deployed to the border this summer.

    The mission of the guardsmen is not to stop the flow of undocumented children but to combat criminal elements trying to slip through in the confusion, said Lucy Nashed, a Perry spokeswoman. At his press conference last week, Perry said "more than 203,000 criminal aliens" have been booked into Texas county jails in the past five years.

    The Texas National Guard troops headed for the Rio Grande Valley are expected to provide a high-profile backstop for border agents dealing with the surge of child immigrants that has captured the nation's attention.

    But one thing they can't do is catch people crossing the border illegally.

    Despite calls by Gov. Rick Perry and others for Guard troops with arrest powers to beef up the border, "Operation Strong Safety," which the governor announced Monday, does not grant the troops that authority.

    Link


    Parent

    El Paso Times (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:23:04 AM EST
    Shortly after that, McAllen Police Chief Victor Rodriguez testified that an increase in crime has not accompanied the wave of Central American immigrants.

    "As far as I can tell, our community has not been impacted in any way from a criminal activity standpoint," Rodriguez said.

    Which begs the question: If the immigrants are turning themselves in and crime is not increasing, what role would state troopers and national guardsmen play?

    Joe Gutierrez Jr., a spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection in McAllen, last week said his office was swamped and would not be able to respond to questions until sometime this week.

    U.S. Rep. Beto O'Rourke, D-El Paso, said state troopers and guardsmen are not needed to help with the crisis.

    A member of the House Homeland Security Committee, O'Rourke said a congressional colleague was told by a McAllen Border Patrol agent, "'If they want to watch us do our job, or they want to make coffee or something, that's fine,'" O'Rourke said.



    Parent
    Immigrants do not cause crime (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 01:38:47 PM EST
    El Paso has one of the lowest crime rates in the nation.  It usually vies with Honolulu for the lowest murder rate.

     A couple of years ago in December, El Paso had only experienced 5 murders.  Two were an elderly couple murder suicide.  Another was an angry man after an argument in a bar ran the other guy over with his car.

    People who brave death to come here to work are good people.  They want to work and help their families.   Talk about cream of the crop. But they do speak Spanish and that just scares the South.

    Parent

    Hold on there (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:18:55 PM EST
    Escobar said El Paso is the "safest city of our size in the nation."

    This conclusion draws on the latest CQ Press crime-rate rankings, which suggest El Paso has the lowest crime-rate ranking of 33 cities with 500,000 residents or more, a conclusion drawing on 2011 crime statistics gathered by the FBI.

    But "safest" is not that simple. The FBI advises against using its figures to rank cities. Also, CQ Press stopped attaching the "safest" label to its crime-rate rankings years ago, saying the label conveys a perception rather than a fact. It gave us pause, too, that in 2011, El Paso had higher violent-crime and burglary rates, according to FBI-collected figures, than at least one other large city.

    We rate this claim as Half True.

    Link

    Parent

    Yman, as usual you try to change what I (1.00 / 2) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:37:55 AM EST
    write.

    The NG is to keep them OUT

    The very presence of the NG will keep them from coming across.

    And I sure hope Mexico doesn't decide to invade us..I mean since we can't stop people coming across the border illegally...

    Wait.... That's what's happening now.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 11:54:00 AM EST
    These people - who are fleeing horrible violence and poverty, will:

    1.  magically be deterred by NG troops that can't design or arrest them,  and

    2.  if for some reason they were deterred by the NG troops who have no power to detain them, won't simply bypass the NG trips, as they do with the border patrol.

    You're funny.

    Parent
    You wanna see horrible violence (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 01:02:03 PM EST
    and poverty... try East LA, Chicago or parts of Memphis.

    A sad fact.

    We can't take all of the children of the world.

    Parent

    You are wrong (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 01:47:45 PM EST
    The crime rate goes down the more Latinos you have....

    Parent
    It has long been claimed (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:21:25 PM EST
    that the reason for police not arresting undocumented residents is that they are afraid to report crimes for fear of being arrested and deported.

    So your claim has not and cannot be proven.

    Parent

    It cannot be disproven either. (none / 0) (#28)
    by Angel on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:23:13 PM EST
    Good grief (none / 0) (#33)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:30:06 PM EST
    Your are just plain wrong for two reasons.

    One is that the undocumented do not report crimes committed agasint them for fear of being deported.  Thus, the undocumented are according to his idea the victims, not the perpetrators.....

    I do not think White Southernors would hesitate to report a crime committd by a Latino.  They are so bigotted they think little abuelitas are criminals.....

    Second, just look at the data.  Murders are necessarily reported.  El Paso, which is some 75% or more Latino has far fewer murders than  the White South.

    I know that many White Southernors have an irrational fear of Latinos....but this is just bigotry, ignorance and stupidity--their staple.

    Parent

    No one's saying we can (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 02:13:27 PM EST
    But I guess when your claim about the NG is exposed as being ridiculous, you go with what you've got.

    Parent
    Seriously? (none / 0) (#52)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 05:23:03 PM EST
    Even in your apples-to-oranges comparison (entire countries in Central America versus cities in the US), the murder rate in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala is higher than in any of the cities you claimed - and this is before the recent surge in violence in CA.

    The poverty rate is higher, too.

    Parent

    Mexico invading us? (none / 0) (#19)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 01:46:55 PM EST
    Is that what you are saying?

    Yes, that is a Southern perspective.....

    Just keep saying things like that and Republicans will lose Texas even sooner.

    Parent

    Hmmmm, well that would depend on (1.00 / 2) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:24:36 PM EST
    an accurate count of the citizenship of the people flooding across.

    But there is no doubt that Mexico is enabling the invasion.

    Parent

    Texas will be turning Blue before 2020. (none / 0) (#25)
    by Angel on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:20:35 PM EST
    Doubtful but possible (1.00 / 4) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:23:01 PM EST
    of course its economy will collapse..

    Just think.

    "Dallas! The Detroit of the Southwest"

    Makes me tear up with pride.

    Parent

    It is looking good (none / 0) (#75)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:12:30 PM EST
    Good luck!

    Parent
    El Paso Times (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:23:06 AM EST
    Shortly after that, McAllen Police Chief Victor Rodriguez testified that an increase in crime has not accompanied the wave of Central American immigrants.

    "As far as I can tell, our community has not been impacted in any way from a criminal activity standpoint," Rodriguez said.

    Which begs the question: If the immigrants are turning themselves in and crime is not increasing, what role would state troopers and national guardsmen play?

    Joe Gutierrez Jr., a spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection in McAllen, last week said his office was swamped and would not be able to respond to questions until sometime this week.

    U.S. Rep. Beto O'Rourke, D-El Paso, said state troopers and guardsmen are not needed to help with the crisis.

    A member of the House Homeland Security Committee, O'Rourke said a congressional colleague was told by a McAllen Border Patrol agent, "'If they want to watch us do our job, or they want to make coffee or something, that's fine,'" O'Rourke said.



    Parent
    OMG (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:23:50 AM EST
    I really am Jim.  

    Parent
    Heh - not quite (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:27:52 AM EST
    You haven't blamed it on the computer.

    Parent
    Beto is very liberal (none / 0) (#18)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 01:45:18 PM EST
    and for legalization of pot.

    He beat the long time Democratic incumbent Reyes who had been a Committe Chair--in the primary.    

    Parent

    More (none / 0) (#9)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:26:44 AM EST
    Texas Gov. Rick Perry calls it "Operation Strong Safety," but critics say it's closer to "operation symbolic act." ...

    The Texas general in charge confirmed his troops cannot physically detain or send any of the thousands of surging immigrants, many of them mothers and children, back across the border...

    Ralph Basham, CBP commissioner under Bush (2006-2009), agreed, telling ABC News that they weapons they carry "are strictly for self-defense," and the National Guard is "limited in terms of what they could do."

    "They could best be used to go down and literally set up tents and medical facilities and housing and food services. And things that the border patrol are being asked to do today," Basham said...

    That could be why the head of the Border Patrol made it clear in a June interview with ABC News that the Guard isn't needed.

    "I don't see the National Guard being particularly good help in this instance," said CBP Commissioner Gil Kerlikowske. "Many of these people are not people that we're having to apprehend or chase, these are people that are turning themselves in asking for some type of status here in the United States."

    Link.

    Oops.

    Parent

    U.S. drug policy (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:51:52 PM EST
    is anomng the more recent causes....

    Do you actually know anything about Central America?  Have you studied its history?

    I suspect you are quite ignorant.  

    Well, enlighten us,MKS (1.00 / 2) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 04:04:36 PM EST
    tell us how a drug culture in the US, some 30 years old, caused the problems that have existed in the these countries for hundreds of years??

    Could it be the culture of the Spanish "settlers" that glorified the "strong man?" The peons huddled close to the castle???

    Something caused it. What was it?

    Parent

    Hundreds of years? (none / 0) (#56)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 07:49:57 PM EST
    Are you serious?

    We could go back to De Las Casas if you like.

    But you sound like your usual ugly American self trying to blame Latino culture.

    Do you think the CIA 1954 coup ousting Arbenz and the Reagan Era policies in Central America were good ideas?  I think you would say, yes, but just make it clear if your are an Eliott Abrams or Otto Reich wannabe.

    Parent

    It has everything to do with Mexico (1.00 / 5) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:31:08 PM EST
    And enough of your insults.

    Caling someone out for racist comments is (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Angel on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:33:52 PM EST
    not an insult, the racist comment is the insult.  

    Parent
    Angel, if you call someone here (none / 0) (#84)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 01:05:53 AM EST
    a racist again, you will be banned.

    Parent
    But jim can call people liars about (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 11:33:37 AM EST
    every third comment, and that's okay?  And he can make comments that are clearly racist in nature, and that's okay, too?

    Maybe someday I'll figure this out, but once again, I am left wondering why someone who has demonstrated, just in this thread alone, a propensity for making racist comments, is calling people liars, and - in another thread - is all but cheerleading for torture and the commission of war crimes, continues to get a pass.

    Parent

    The man has a picture of Obama (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 11:48:27 AM EST
    with a bone in his nose at his website.

    Racists exist, Ms Merrit. It's a bad thing to call someone or inaccurately accuse someone of, but sometimes it's the only descriptive word that fits.

    Parent

    He's quite proud of his views, so (none / 0) (#162)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 03:54:26 PM EST
    I don't really see the problem in acknowledging them for what they are.

    Parent
    When someone writes (none / 0) (#138)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 12:38:24 PM EST
    an untruth about what I have writtenI have a tendency to call it what it is.

    And in every case I can prove it.

    Is there a word you prefer??

    Parent

    Well, I've lived in and spent significant (1.00 / 5) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:39:27 PM EST
    time in about 20 + cities/towns and three foreign countries plus the Soviet Union.

    I think my experience based knowledge trumps your purely local view of the world.

    In fact, I think that makes you a low information type who can't debate anything so you have to insult.

    You know nothing about Texas and it's politics. (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Angel on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:57:46 PM EST
    I've lived here my entire life but have traveled extensively all over the world for business and pleasure. Hardly a "low information type" but insult away if it makes you feel better about yourself.

    Parent
    Austin? (none / 0) (#57)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 08:29:46 PM EST
    Yes. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Angel on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:23:04 PM EST
    Bevo? (none / 0) (#62)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:24:11 PM EST
    Yes. (none / 0) (#65)
    by Angel on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:25:05 PM EST
    Driskill? (none / 0) (#68)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:42:49 PM EST
    Only for drinks. LOL (none / 0) (#69)
    by Angel on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:48:24 PM EST
    Hook 'em horns! (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:11:01 PM EST
    Well, traveling is nice (none / 0) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:07:30 PM EST
    and you do get a view of the restaurants, museums, etc..

    But it isn't the same as living somewhere and don't kid yourself that staying in a hotel exposes you to all the nuances you learn while living there.

    Parent

    You ever live in Latin America? (none / 0) (#74)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:11:29 PM EST
    Nope, but I claim to be an Angel (1.00 / 4) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:22:17 PM EST
    expert based on my travel in PR, Virgin Is, Bahamas, and Mexico.

    Everything I saw confirms what I have written. Great people, great natural resources... lousy governments.

    And government is the result of culture.

    Do you not find it instructive that our government was founded on northern Europe culture??

    Parent

    Seriously?!? (5.00 / 0) (#80)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:41:51 PM EST
     
    Everything I saw confirms what I have written. Great people, great natural resources... lousy governments.

    And government is the result of culture.

    Do you not find it instructive that our government was founded on northern Europe culture??

    What the he// is that supposed to mean?!?

    Parent

    You could read history (5.00 / 0) (#81)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:48:40 PM EST
    Have you read anything about the history of Latin America?

    Probably not.....

    Parent

    So, Southern European (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:58:47 PM EST
    doesn't cut it, either?

    So, no Italians or Spaniards, etc?  Or the French?
    Certainly not Catholic culture.

    Man oh man....

    Parent

    Yawn. (5.00 / 0) (#87)
    by Angel on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 07:36:18 AM EST
    I'd be more impressed by his pleas (none / 0) (#88)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 08:40:08 AM EST
    for "Northern European Cvilization" if James came out for smorgasbord and socialism like they have in Sweden, which last time I checked, is a Northern European county.

    Parent
    I love it when you folks deny reality. (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 08:46:51 AM EST
    And yes, Southern Europe doesn't count. In fact, Spain/Portugal was the chief source of the culture that established the Catholic Church as the enabler of the Owner/Peon culture that infected CA and SA. It continues until this very day.

    Northern Europe, and I include England, had its problems but the evolution was towards religious and secular freedom, although it was a slow and torturous journey starting with the Magna Carta.

    You know, it occurs to me that you folks are like a doctor who knows every symptom of a disease but you don't know why the patient has become ill.
     

    Parent

    It continues to this day, you say. (5.00 / 0) (#90)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 09:00:12 AM EST
    How would you know?

    When asked if you had lived in Latin America, you said no but you had visited Puerto Rico, Mexico, the Bahamas and the Vigin Islands.

    That you think the Bahamas is part of Latin America has me speechless.  Should I laugh? Should I cry?  I guess all those dark people south of the border are all the same.

    I knew you knew little about Latin America but the complete and total ignorance combined with cock sure arrogance that you know what you are talking about is truly a sight to behold.

    But, you know, I figured it out.  I do not know why it did not occur to me sooner.   Complete ingorance, complete assurance, some meanness, and inbred bigotry.  And, there you go:  You are Sarah Palin.  In real life, you are Sarah Palin.  You know, with the foreign policy borne of "I can see Russia from my house."   "Jim" is just a name you hide behind.  Hi, Sarah.

    Parent

    Jim, or should I say, Sarah, (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 09:10:46 AM EST
    In terms of Owner/Peon culture, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions.

    How is the owner/peon culture different than the slavery/plantation culture of your beloved South?

    And if the current low status of Central America is due to the decades or century or two of peon culture, then does that not mean your beloved South is still affected by and tainted by  slavery?

    The lack of self awarness here is amazing.  Again, should I laugh, should I cry.  I dunno.  Just recognize you are Sarah Palin, I guess.

    Parent

    Hmmm, let me see (none / 0) (#95)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 11:45:47 AM EST
    First, why do you attempt to insult me with "..your beloved South?" All you do with such is display your ignorance regarding me which is fed by your hatred of me because I dare disagree with you.

    I again note that one of the traits that, sooner or later, causes radicals to fail is their demand that everyone agree with them in total. I do not understand  why this is so, but it is.

    And there is little difference between the CA/SA owner/peon culture than what was seen in the south and the northern US cities before unions started breaking down the walls established by the Vanderbilt's, et al.

    (I just love to point these things out to sanctimonious people such as yourself.)

    And before I continue, "my bad" for not noting that the Bahamas, though settled by Spain, was seceded to England in 1783. So though I listed them as visited I should not have listed them as a current Hispanic country. But I digress.

    My parents were sharecroppers and I was raised very poor. I know more about the "Owner/peon" culture than you ever will. I have experienced discrimination up close and personal.

    I also note that one the traits of many in the south and all over the country, was to accept the "owners" nonsense that they should hate blacks because that made them better than blacks.

    My parents did not accept this. I was taught that everyone is equal before God and should be in all matters of law. That this is not true is one of the failings of our country.

    They worked themselves upward and died independent and in their own home. I hope that we all leave like that.

    Your trust is in government.

    With government I adopt the Gipper's comment about the Soviet Union. "Trust but verify."

    And Obama's administration has failed at every turn.


    Parent

    I don't hate you, Jim (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 12:01:09 PM EST
    You tend to baffle me.

    You know almost nothing about Latin America but you are completley sure it was its substandard culture that has caused all the countries in Central and South America to be failures....That view is so wrong in so many ways, I would not even know where to begin.

    Your view of Latin America is part of your overall philisophy of the superiority of White, Northern Eurpoean Culture.  You try to make everything fit within this view of the superiority of white culture.  There is word for that type of view, you know.

    So, yes, if we are using your measuring stick, the South is a failed culture....weighted down by slavery.

    And it wasn't just the Bahamas that you said was part of Latin America, it was the Virgin Islands.   Why would you call the Virgin Islands part of Latin America?  If you visited the Virgin Islands and the Bahamas did you really think you were being exposed to Hispanic or Latino culture?

    And, just where in Mexico did you visit? Was it Cancun?  That would be my guess.  

    Parent

    You don't hate me?? (1.00 / 2) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 12:28:36 PM EST
    Well, you have sure fooled me.

    If I baffle you it is because I don't fit into any of your prepacked views of old white men who grew up in the south. In your view we are all racist misogynists out to jail all the dope smokers and run them damnyankees back upnorth.

    lol

    And, as I noted elsewhere, the south has changed. That you are incapable of seeing that merely reflects your lack of knowledge. The Old South has not only changed, it is dead.

    And the facts are that Americans are not fleeing south. CA's are fleeing to America.

    That's all you need to know when judging the success and failure of cultures.

    The facts speak.

    Parent

    No it isn't. (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Angel on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 02:40:09 PM EST
    The Old South has not only changed, it is dead.

    So you're saying there's no voter suppression?  No discrimination?  No allegiance to the Confederacy?  I could go on...but that should be enough to challenge your assertion.

    Parent

    Could've fooled me. (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 03:46:20 PM EST
    From the Huffington Post, 2 years ago.

    On Monday, polling firm Public Policy Polling (PPP) revealed that 29 percent of likely GOP voters surveyed in Mississippi believe that interracial marriage should be illegal. Fifty-four percent said intermarriage should remain legal, and the rest responded that they weren't sure. The survey also found that 21 percent of likely GOP voters polled in Alabama believe that interracial marriage should be illegal.

    Although the Supreme Court declared anti-miscegenation laws unconstitutional more than four decades ago in 1967, Alabama kept a state-level law on the books until 2000. Many mixed-race couples in the Deep South are still struggling to feel safe and be accepted in their communities.

    In November 2011, Stella Harville and her fiance, Ticha Chikuni, a native of Zimbabwe, were banned from a Kentucky church for being an interracial couple. The church also ruled that married interracial couples could be prohibited from becoming members. A month later, the congregation overturned their decision, deeming their earlier ruling "discriminatory."

    And in May 2011, Debra Dodd, a former church secretary from Tennessee, was fired, she claims, after the all-white church where she worked learned she married a black man. The church has denied that her firing was related to her interracial marriage, but Dodd sued the church in December 2011 for racial discrimination. No updates on the lawsuit have been reported.



    Parent
    In case you haven't caught on (1.00 / 2) (#117)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 07:30:27 PM EST
    you are being ignored. Why? Because you distort what I wrote.

    And, as I noted elsewhere, the south has changed. That you are incapable of seeing that merely reflects your lack of knowledge. The Old South has not only changed, it is dead.

    and

    My position is simple. Lots of progress. Work to be done. I have done that by my own acts, educating my children and grandson just as my parents did me.

    Now, quit doing that and enter into a discussion based on what you believe vs what I believe and I'll start paying attention.

    Otherwise I won't.

    Parent

    In one sense (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 06:49:38 PM EST
    The Old South has not only changed, it is dead.

    It true.  The south of William Faulkner, Thomas Wolfe and Tennessee Williams is dead.   It's now the south of Steve King, Louie Gomert  and Ted Cruz.

    Very sad really.

    Parent

    Where in Mexico did you visit (none / 0) (#105)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 01:18:59 PM EST
    The Bahamas were never ... (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by Yman on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 04:17:48 PM EST
    ... as "Hispanic country", current or former.  They were "discovered" by Columbus but were never colonized by Spain and were mostly deserted until 1648, when the British settled on Eleuthera.  The only "seceding" (sic) done by the Spanish to England was the surrender of New Providence after Spain had captured and occupied the island for less than a year.

    Where do you make this stuff up?

    Parent

    Tell that to all the slaves (1.00 / 2) (#118)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 07:31:57 PM EST
    the Spaniards had there.

    Parent
    Heh - that's your new fall-back? (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Yman on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 07:46:38 PM EST
    First, you claim the Bahamas were a Spanish colony governed by the Spanish with a Spanish culture. Then you claim they used to be a Spanish colony, until they "seceded" (sic) the Bahamas to the English in 1783.  Then, when both of those laughable claims are proven to be yet another false Jim-myth, you fall back to the fact that they took some native Lucayans as slaves, without ever colonizing the islands.

    Did you just Google "Spain" and "Bahamas" and you couldn't tell the difference between colonization and occupying a fort for less than a year?

    Oops!  (again!)

    Parent

    No Yman, (none / 0) (#144)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 01:16:27 PM EST
    I said I had visited there.


    Parent
    The fact is (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 11:16:03 AM EST
    (Northern Europe, and I include England, had its problems but the evolution was towards religious and secular freedom, although it was a slow and torturous journey starting with the Magna Carta.)

    And of course, the English Parliament came from
    the French across the English Channel, or "Southern Europe" and the English system of law had two sources: The unwritten laws of the Anglo-Saxons, and the written law of the Romans(from Southern Europe, right, James?) that came over the Channel with William the Conqueror in 1066  

    To act as though the Romans and Greek(another bunch of Southern Europe) didn't contribute anything to the foundations of English and later American civilization is to believe in a Tea Party version of American history.

    Parent

    But there was (1.00 / 1) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 11:33:23 AM EST
    some 1000 years or so after the Romans in which there was a Dark Age. The Catholic Church became corrupt and was reformed through some dark and blood times.

    However, the reformation brought Protestantism  to North Europe. Italy, Spain, Portugal remained in the tender care of the Catholic Church.

    And therein lies the truth. The culture of those countries, no matter how more or less ancient Rome and Athens influenced them or Northern Europe, remained frozen in the owner/peon mold.

    You can't escape it. You can't place total blame on outside influences for the failures of those countries that has helped launch this invasion of our country.

    Accept that they had some responsibility.

    Of course you won't because that would mean that maybe, just maybe, they should fix their own problems and take away something for you to hate America about.

     

    Parent

    And the fact is (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 11:42:04 AM EST
    that the Reformation wouldn't have had a toehold on England went from Catholicism because of Henry VIII and his need for a divorce, not because of the problems Martin Luther found with the Catholic church and that the Reformation was primarily about.

    The culture of those countries, no matter how more or less ancient Rome and Athens influenced them or Northern Europe, remained frozen in the owner/peon mold.

    And yet, after 150 years after slavery was abolished in America, the South is free of ra cial discrimination and any traces of the slaveholder/slave mold that was there for centuries as well.

    Thanks for giving us an insight as to why your version of history is so distorted, you obviously come from a culture that is frozen in the past and is unable to adapt to the necessary changes needed in the 21st Century.

    Thanks for clearing that up for us.

    Parent

    A old fashioned Southernor (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 12:08:50 PM EST
      White Northern European culture is superior to all others.  Check.

    Latin American culture is inferior.  Check.

    "Those" illegals are "invading" our country.  Check.

    White culture is superior to Black culture and "Detroit."  Check.

    And for the coup de grace: Catholic countries are inferior to Protestant countries.

    How much more old fashioned Southern can you get?  Get out the hoods and crosses.

    Parent

    I don't mind your rants (1.00 / 2) (#102)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 12:55:17 PM EST
    But let me review what you write.

    White Northern European culture is superior to all others.  Check.

    Nope didn't say WHITE Northern... so that is a lie. I do agree that the Northern European culture that established America, wrote the Constitution and has grown through the infusion of other peoples and cultures has established an AMERICAN culture that is superior to all others.

    Latin American culture is inferior  Check.

    Well, Americans aren't flowing south to live there. In fact, it is the reverse.

    "Those" illegals are "invading" our country.  Check.

    I have been watching the news. How about you??

    White culture is superior to Black culture and "Detroit."  Check.

    Another lie. I did not say or imply that. In fact I noted that it was the Democratic administration that destroyed Detroit.

    And for the coup de grace: Catholic countries are inferior to Protestant countries.

    Another lie. I did not say that. I pointed out that, looking at history, Spain/Portugal/Italy remained Catholic and their culture, "owner/peon" was exported to CA/SA.

    This was not repeated in the Northern European countries, even those with a strong Catholic Church.

    How much more old fashioned Southern can you get?  Get out the hoods and crosses.

    Having lied and still lost the argument you, again, resort to insults.

    How much more Leftie can you get?

    lol

    Parent

    He can't help it (none / 0) (#129)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 11:17:30 AM EST
    it's his culture.

    Or, as candidate-for-governor Homer Stokes said in Oh Brother Where Art Thou, "The pure white flowah of owah cultcha 'n heritage."

    Parent

    It doesn't make any difference as to why (1.00 / 1) (#97)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 12:02:25 PM EST
    it took place. The fact is that it did, although there were several bloody episodes in which each side joyfully killed the other.

    And no, I didn't write or infer that:

    And yet, after 150 years after slavery was abolished in America, the South is free of ra cial discrimination and any traces of the slaveholder/slave mold that was there for centuries as well.

    I see that your position is so weak that you resort to making things up.

    My position is simple. Lots of progress. Work to be done. I have done that by my own acts, educating my children and grandson just as my parents did me.

    But you, not living in the south, and probably not even closely associating with a broad stratum of society, black, white, hispanic, muslim,et al consider yourself an expert.

    You're not.

    So I see your false claims as a lack of experience and a failed education system that has taught you that all things American is bad.

    So we come full circle. Thousands are flooding here because their countries and cultures have failed them.

    Plus they come now at the behest of Obama and the Democratic Party in the belief that they will vote Democratic and keep the "owners" in power. And you, one of the "peons" cheer them on in their quest to keep power just as the poor southern peons did the KKK.

    You are merely the opposite side of the same coin.

    Ask some questions. Think about some things.

    Parent

    Sure it does (none / 0) (#99)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 12:15:29 PM EST
    Along with considering the fact that Henry VIIIs transformation of England into a Protestant stronghold was complete with the Glorious Revolution deposing the Catholic heir to the throne with William and Mary imported from overseas, there are a lot of differences between the Reformation as it took place on the European continent and in England.

    My position is simple. Lots of progress. Work to be done. I have done that by my own acts, educating my children and grandson just as my parents did me.

    How do you know that isn't true of Latin America as well?  Oh, I forgot, you know all about LA culture because of your visits to Mexico and Puerto Rico.  Who needs books and scholarship when all you have to do is go down there as a tourist and look for yourself?

    So we come full circle. Thousands are flooding here because their countries and cultures have failed them.

    And it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that we supported strong-man dictatorships there for decades, or the demand for drugs from the neighbor to the north.  That would have no impact on them compared to that of their culture and religion.

    Thanks for demonstrating what ignorance on all fours looks like.

    Parent

    You keep on assuming (none / 0) (#101)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 12:39:23 PM EST
    How do you know that isn't true of Latin America as well?

    I never said it hasn't changed for the better in some cases.

    But the fact is that the improvement hasn't been enough to take care of the citizens.

    And it couldn't have anything to do with...

    And I never said that our support of dictators or our demand for drugs hasn't caused problems.

    But a culture must be strong enough to resist problems. It has not. And we can debate why for days but the fact is.... It has not. The flood north speaks for itself.

    Now the question becomes, why should we accept this flood?? We have our own citizens with our own problems.

    Send them home and let them fix their own problems.

    Parent

    hasn't improved throughout the centuries, and then you have the guts to say:

    I never said it hasn't changed for the better in some cases.

    Cites omitted, please.

    And I never said that our support of dictators or our demand for drugs hasn't caused problems.

    But you attempt to minimize any outside influence we might've had on the proble when you blame 'the cultures and the countries', until you're called on it.

    But a culture must be strong enough to resist problems. It has not. And we can debate why for days but the fact is.... It has not. The flood north speaks for itself.

    Perhaps the culture of the Tea Party crowd won't be up to this challenge, which is to be expected from a movement with roots in the past and blinders as to what the future holds for this county.

    Now the question becomes, why should we accept this flood?? We have our own citizens with our own problems.

    If we're still the same country that had its' own problems then in the 19th Century, we do so because that's what they did, and that's what we do as Americans:

    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

    "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
    With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    I'm sorry you don't believe we're a country great enough anymore to do so.  

    And please keep in mind, at one time your Irish ancestors were the 'wretched refuse' of the British Empire.

    Parent

    Oh please, quit before I stand and start (none / 0) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 01:16:32 PM EST
    reciting the pledge of allegiance. You know, one country, under God..and that will cause you to break out in hives.

    ;-)

    The Tea Party crowd has no culture. It is a mishmash of evangelical, libertarian, conservative that will probably collapse over the next several years as mainline politicians adopt enough of their various positions. (That is one of the strengths of our culture and political system.)

    You should attend a few meetings. That way you will actually know something from experience rather than the media... Wait. You don't do things like that.

    If we're still the same country that had its' own problems

    I didn't say we were. Here's the deal on immigration when the Statue of Liberty was erected. We had lots of land that needed setting and lots of factories that needed low skilled labor.

    That's no longer true. We don't need more low skilled people. We don't have enough jobs to employ our own low skilled people.

    And when my Scot/Irish ancestors arrived there were.

    Parent

    Yeah, let's not do the P of A (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 01:32:46 PM EST
    like the original writer, a Christian socialist minister wrote it, and leave in the God part because it was put in there in the 1950 when we were fighting the Commies and their atheist ways.

    The Tea Party crowd has no culture.

    Finally, something we can both agree on.

    You should attend a few meetings. That way you will actually know something from experience rather than the media... Wait. You don't do things like that.

    Do you remember that part in the Bible were Jesus says that men do not gather grapes of thorns, nor figs of thistles?

    Many others suggested working closely with a local tea party chapter, and shared stories of doing so themselves. "I've joined so far three local Tea Party Groups locally and have been encouraging all my employees and friends and relatives to do the same. We have been very successful," one said. '[F]rankly it's been working like a charm for well over two years. These people have money, time and a hell of a lot of local influence and most aren't afraid to use it-all they need is a little encouragement, direction and leadership."

    Strelnikov bragged, "got about half the people to applaude my attack on legal immigration this week. Our t-party is middle class. These people don't look rich. After the meeting they practically swarmed my table to pick up free 'Take Back America!!!' bumper stickers. I'm getting other stuff in their hands too. Our meetings appear to be 100% white in a county that is 65% white."

    Applauding an attack on legal immigration.  How noble.

    1,0400,000 hits on Google for tea party meetings racism.

    And that's all due to the Lamestream media.

    Yep.

    That's no longer true. We don't need more low skilled people. We don't have enough jobs to employ our own low skilled people.

    Children aren't low-skilled people, so you aren't making logical sense here.

    Besides, the Chamber of Commerce folks need that foreign, unskilled labor, because they don't want to pay an American citizen 10.00$/hr when they can get Juan Valdezs cousin to pick cropsm or clean buildings or work at restaurants and the like for 7.25/hr.  You can have Tea Party meetings until the cows come home, but they're the big money boys and they're not going to hire Americans to fill these vacancies.  That's a fact, and not one you can dismiss with a gibe or stupid remark like you were still in middle school

    Parent

    The issue isn't children (1.00 / 2) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 07:13:00 PM EST
    the issue is PEOPLE.

    And if you actually knew what I have written you would know that I have long said that people who employ undocumented workers should be severely punished.

    You ready for some jail time because that gardener you employ is undocumented. ;-)

    I have also said that we should close the border, provide green cards for those already here and then work through how we let these people become citizens.

    And since I doubt you have ever worked outside of an office or such, let me explain that unskilled labor is a commodity. By limiting it wages will go up and working conditions improve.

    Of course your wine and veggies may go up, but can't you pay a bit more?

    As to your "article," how do you know its real??

    I just Googled "Obama is gay" and got 154,000,000 hits including one that says a Secret Service agent says he is Gay and a Muslim!!!

    Do you also believe that?? I mean, it is from a Secret Service agent..... lol

    Parent

    Still wrong (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 07:49:09 PM EST

    And if you actually knew what I have written you would know that I have long said that people who employ undocumented workers should be severely punished.

    You ready for some jail time because that gardener you employ is undocumented. ;-)

    Doesn't matter what I want, it's what agribusinesses and the companies that employ illegals want.  I thought you were intelligent enough to understand that simple concept.

    I have also said that we should close the border, provide green cards for those already here and then work through how we let these people become citizens.

    The East Germans had only hundreds, not thousands, of miles of borders they tried to close to keep people from leaving.  How much of American money do you want to spend to try to achieve what a ruthless, dictatorial regime was unable to do?

    And since I doubt you have ever worked outside of an office or such

    Actually, I have.  Do you do balloon tricks?  Because your snippy habit of assuming things about people you don't like isn't very charming to say the least.

    Combined with the pearl clutching you do when people say that you're not the greatest thing since sliced bread, I'd say you're in no position to be talking about what my work background does and doesn't include.

    let me explain that unskilled labor is a commodity. By limiting it wages will go up and working conditions improve.

    Not really, there are always more people willing to work at unskilled labor than there are jobs.  Look what happened in Georgia and Alabama when the illegals were pushed out of the farm labor market.

    Jay Bookman
    Ga's farm-labor crisis playing out as planned

    7:22 am June 17, 2011, by Jay

    NOTE: This post includes substantial material published earlier on this blog. It is published here as the electronic version of today's AJC column.

    After enacting House Bill 87, a law designed to drive illegal immigrants out of Georgia, state officials appear shocked to discover that HB 87 is, well, driving a lot of illegal immigrants out of Georgia.

    It might be funny if it wasn't so sad.

    Thanks to the resulting labor shortage, Georgia farmers have been forced to leave millions of dollars' worth of blueberries, onions, melons and other crops unharvested and rotting in the fields. It has also put state officials into something of a panic at the damage they've done to Georgia's largest industry.

    Barely a month ago, you might recall, Gov. Nathan Deal welcomed the TV cameras into his office as he proudly signed HB 87 into law. Two weeks later, with farmers howling, a scrambling Deal ordered a hasty investigation into the impact of the law he had just signed, as if all this had come as quite a surprise to him.

    The results of that investigation have now been released. According to survey of 230 Georgia farmers conducted by Agriculture Commissioner Gary Black, farmers expect to need more than 11,000 workers at some point over the rest of the season, a number that probably underestimates the real need, since not every farmer in the state responded to the survey.

    In response, Deal proposes that farmers try to hire the 2,000 unemployed criminal probationers estimated to live in southwest Georgia. Somehow, I suspect that would not be a partnership made in heaven for either party.

    As an editorial in the Valdosta Daily Times notes, "Maybe this should have been prepared for, with farmers' input. Maybe the state should have discussed the ramifications with those directly affected. Maybe the immigration issue is not as easy as 'send them home,' but is a far more complex one in that maybe Georgia needs them, relies on them, and cannot successfully support the state's No. 1 economic engine without them."

    According to the survey, more than 6,300 of the unclaimed jobs pay an hourly wage of just $7.25 to $8.99, or an average of roughly $8 an hour. Over a 40-hour work week in the South Georgia sun, that's $320 a week, before taxes, although most workers probably put in considerably longer hours. Another 3,200 jobs pay $9 to $11 an hour. And while our agriculture commissioner has been quoted as saying Georgia farms provide "$12, $13, $14, $16, $18-an-hour jobs," the survey reported just 169 openings out of more than 11,000 that pay $16 or more.

    In addition, few of the jobs include benefits -- only 7.7 percent offer health insurance, and barely a third are even covered by workers compensation. And the truth is that even if all 2,000 probationers in the region agreed to work at those rates and stuck it out -- a highly unlikely event, to put it mildly -- it wouldn't fix the problem.

    Given all that, Deal's pledge to find "viable and law-abiding solutions" to the problem that he helped create seems naively far-fetched. Again, if such solutions existed, they should have been put in place before the bill ever became law, because this impact was entirely predictable and in fact intended.

    Of course your wine and veggies may go up, but can't you pay a bit more?

    Don't drink much wine, and I live in Central California were we have veggies year round.  Don't hate us for that.

    As to your "article," how do you know its real??

    If you followed the link, you can read this:

    Journal Reference:

        Fei Ji, Zhaohua Wu, Jianping Huang, Eric P. Chassignet. Evolution of land surface air temperature trend. Nature Climate Change, 2014; DOI: 10.1038/nclimate2223

    Which means it was published after being peer-reviews in a respectable scientific journal.

    That's how I know it's real.



    Parent
    Your Irish ancestry (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 02:14:20 PM EST
    You know, according to your theory, the Irish culture is inferior.  We have a lot of illegal immigrants from Ireland....It is not just Mexicans....

    You have said all you need to know is the net flow of people.  People always flee inferior cultures.  So, according to you, all you need to know to know that Latin American culture is inferior is that people are coming here from there.  You don't know anything about Latin America except that you visited it when you visited the Bahamas and the Virign Islands.

    So, the net flow of people from Ireland means Irish culture is inferior.  According to your odd theory.

    Parent

    No, I said even some that had (1.00 / 2) (#116)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 07:15:34 PM EST
    strong Catholic ties...

    Why do you lie??

    The Irish, despite their problems of the past aren't flooding our shores. Hispanics are.

    Parent

    You do realize that one way (none / 0) (#111)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 03:50:46 PM EST
    to measure a superiority of a culture is the extent to which it expands?

    Thus, there are more people of Irish ancestry living outside of Ireland than within it.  Irish culture is expanding and sucessful and influential.

    And, similarly, the Latino population is expanding, extending its culture and influence.  Half the school aged children in Texas are Latino.  Thus, the Latino culture is a succesful culture.

    I think this second way of measuring a culture's influence and sucess--how far does it expand--is what is really upsetting many anglos in the U.S.   The Latino culture is expanding and their culture is not.  Whites are losing the demographic war to a an expanding culture of Latinos.  That is the real reason for people being upset.

    That is why you hear conservatives talk about a Latino "invasion."

    Sad, because I believe Latino culture is a part of American culture.  That is how I grew up.  But too many feel threatened by Latino culture. There is no reason to.

    Parent

    Quit changing the subject. (none / 0) (#119)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 07:39:13 PM EST
    Millions have fled CA and are now invading our southern borders.

    Latino culture is part of our America culture. So is Chinese, Russian, etc. etc. The issue is that millions of from CA are trying to get in.

    We don't need anymore unskilled people. Our resources are stretched. We are $17 trillion in debt and are borrowing around 50 cents for every dollar we spend.

    How long do you think that will last??

    Parent

    Vote Democrat.. (none / 0) (#130)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 11:27:25 AM EST
    Wow. Yet one more Bircher conspiracy theory.

    What's really sad/pathetic is that no matter what the secret-commie Obamas of the world do, due to the actions and inflammatory rhetoric of the White, I mean Right, you folks have sealed your own electoral doom for the future.

    As Ole Bobby Lee said after Pickett's Charge, too bad, too bad..

    Parent

    Repeating a canard (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 03:44:19 PM EST
    doesn't make it more true, and your view of English political history is somewhat candy-coated:

    CONFUCIUS. The English people always did elect parliaments of lunatics. What does it matter if your permanent officials are honest and competent?

    BURGE-LUBIN. You do not know the history of this country. What would my ancestors have said to the menagerie of degenerates that is still called
    the House of Commons? Confucius: you will not believe me; and I do not blame you for it; but England once saved the liberties of the world by
    inventing parliamentary government, which was her peculiar and supreme glory.

    CONFUCIUS. I know the history of your country perfectly well. It proves the exact contrary.

    BURGE-LUBIN. How do you make that out?

    CONFUCIUS. The only power your parliament ever had was the power of withholding supplies from the king.

    BURGE-LUBIN. Precisely. That great Englishman Simon de Montfort--

    CONFUCIUS. He was not an Englishman: he was a Frenchman. He imported parliaments from France.

    BURGE-LUBIN [surprised] You dont say so!

    CONFUCIUS. The king and his loyal subjects killed Simon for forcing his French parliament on them. The first thing British parliaments always
    did was to grant supplies to the king for life with enthusiastic expressions of loyalty, lest they should have any real power, and be expected to do something.

    BURGE-LUBIN. Look here, Confucius: you know more history than I do, of course; but democracy--

    CONFUCIUS. An institution peculiar to China. And it was never really a success there.

    BURGE-LUBIN. But the Habeas Corpus Act!

    CONFUCIUS. The English always suspended it when it threatened to be of the slightest use.

    BURGE-LUBIN. Well, trial by jury: you cant deny that we established that?

    CONFUCIUS. All cases that were dangerous to the governing classes were tried in the Star Chamber or by Court Martial, except when the prisoner
    was not tried at all, but executed after calling him names enough to make him unpopular.

    BURGE-LUBIN. Oh, bother! You may be right in these little details; but in the large we have managed to hold our own as a great race. Well,
    people who could do nothing couldnt have done that, you know.

    CONFUCIUS. I did not say you could do nothing. You could fight. You could eat. You could drink. Until the twentieth century you could produce children. You could play games. You could work when you were forced to. But you could not govern yourselves.

    BURGE-LUBIN. Then how did we get our reputation as the pioneers of liberty?

    CONFUCIUS. By your steadfast refusal to be  governed at all. A horse that kicks everyone who tries to harness and guide him may be a pioneer of
    liberty; but he is not a pioneer of government. In China he would be shot.

    G. B. Shaw, Back to Methuselah.


    Parent

    Quoting a work of fiction??? (1.00 / 2) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 07:40:33 PM EST
    Well, you've written much of your own..

    lol.

    Parent

    A wise man or woman (none / 0) (#125)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 01:38:25 AM EST
    can learn from fiction.

    The question is, can you?

    Parent

    Oh, really??? You learn from fiction?? (none / 0) (#127)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 10:00:28 AM EST
    Well, you can learn what the writer claims.

    Thank goodness that the med schools don't teach John W Campbell, Jr....

    Parent

    Oh really??? (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 11:12:12 AM EST
    I give you the irrefutable climate science genius Michael Crichton.

    Jim, sometimes you're such low-hanging fruit you're like a hanging-curve served up to Babe Ruth.

    Parent

    Bingo! (none / 0) (#134)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 11:57:47 AM EST
    Reading something (none / 0) (#135)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 12:26:55 PM EST
    from someone is not "learning."

    You two nattering nabobs of the Left need to understand the difference between agreeing with a source versus learning.

    Parent

    Amen (none / 0) (#141)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 01:05:09 PM EST
    Another thing I love are these Leftie hoaxers who love to feign ignorance when charged with completely ignoring the ground-breaking work of Norse Mythology scholar Heinrich Himmler.

    Those people never tire of reveling in their ignorance.

    Parent

    Well I do agree (none / 0) (#143)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 01:12:35 PM EST
    That you and Himmler are on the same coin, just different sides.

    Parent
    Quoting from an old Bill Safire speech (none / 0) (#148)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 01:44:25 PM EST
    delivered by a crooked now ex-Vice President of the USA.

    Yeah, you really zinged us with that one.

    >:O

    Parent

    I thought you would like that one ;-) (none / 0) (#150)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:16:18 PM EST
    But truth is truth, no matter where it comes from.

    It need not be Politically Correct.

    Even a rascal of the first stripe occasionally says one.

    `I don't know what you mean by "glory,"' Alice said.

    Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

    `But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected.

    `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

    `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

    `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'



    Parent
    I always thought your (none / 0) (#161)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:52:07 PM EST
    POV had something of the "Looking Glass" world to it.  

    Thanks for confirming my intuition yet again.

    Parent

    A good and true Aryan (none / 0) (#149)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 01:44:49 PM EST
    Scholar like you would know that better than anyone. And thank you for your service to our Fatherland.

    Parent
    What's a matter, Jondee (none / 0) (#151)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:17:26 PM EST
    Can't stand to be bit by the snake you're holding??

    lol

    Parent

    Speaking of which (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:27:10 PM EST
    aren't you due back at the reptile house for lunch?  It's frozen mice Monday today.

    Parent
    Mr. Angel suggested I provide you a list of (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by Angel on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 04:35:25 PM EST
    places visited for business and pleasure.  Not sure this list is complete. Indonesia, China, Vietnam, Ghana, Uganda, South Africa, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, Austria, Hungary, Spain, Greece, Turkey, Great Britain, France, Mexico, Canada, Argentina, Bahamas and various Caribbean islands. And all but a handful of US states. Still think I'm a "low information type?"

    Parent
    Wonderful (1.00 / 4) (#121)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 07:41:38 PM EST
    Did you actually learn anything there?

    Parent
    Absolutely. Just had friends over for dinner and (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by Angel on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 09:25:16 PM EST
    we discussed our recent two week travel to Greece and Turkey and how educational it was.  Spent a great deal of time at the ruins Ephesus and Pergamom with a local guide, had a wonderful local guide in Istanbul who taught us some Turkic language phrases, etc. Learned a lot about Muslims in general, the Islam religion, mosques and Turkish history and the various influences on the country.  Learned more about Greek orthodoxy, fishing, some interesting facts about the water flow in the Dardanelles with regard to the Agean Sea and the Black Sea.  I could go on and on but you'd probably be bored.  Suffice to say that I try to learn something everywhere I go.  

    Parent
    Great! I am sure that two weeks (1.00 / 1) (#126)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 09:57:33 AM EST
    there educated you. Especially about the history..

    Which is so nice.

    I did the same in my "visits" in all the countries and places I visited, including Texas.

    lol

    But, of course, that isn't the issue. The issue is that the CA/SA countries have a sorry history of providing a livable place for their citizens.

    Their leaders want to blame the US.

    I say hooey. The US's dope problem is fairly recent but the problems have existed for years and are based on the "owner/peon" culture put in place by the Spaniards/Portuguese who immigrated their centuries ago.

    Man, I bet the NA's wish they had used the NG to keep them out.

    Parent

    I answered your question and you come back with (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 11:48:12 AM EST
    an insult.  What is your problem?  Are you jealous that I've traveled more than you?  That I might just perhaps be smarter than you?  That I enjoy learning more and building on my foundation of knowledge with first-hand experiences in the places I've read and heard about?  Please do tell.

    Did you actually learn anything there?


    Parent
    Well, I AM jealous (none / 0) (#136)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 12:30:06 PM EST
    sounds like a great list....

    Parent
    That is a question (none / 0) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 12:48:02 PM EST
    And if you are so smart, why did you not recognize the question as just a question??

    And smarter?? In what way? Math? Physics? Engineering?? Poker playing? Kite flying?? Gardening??

    Exactly in what way are you smarter??

    I mean really. You are the one claiming to know all about Texas, which I doubt.

    But I digress.

    If you are so smart why can't you learn by observation??

    The facts are simple. People are fleeing countries of their birth and in which their families and friends live.

    They do not do this because it is a superior place to live.

    They do it because it is a very bad place.

    The current "owners" want to blackmail the US for more money by claiming our drug market is the cause.

    I say "hooey." The problem is the corruption within their governments that allow the dealers to flourish.

    And such corruption has existed for years. There is nothing new about it.

    Parent

    So that would be a "yes" answer to all (none / 0) (#145)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 01:28:40 PM EST
    of my questions to you.  Case settled.  

    Parent
    Another classic example of (none / 0) (#152)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:19:39 PM EST
    Angel's lack of logic.

    You claim to be smarter than I.

    I ask, in what way.

    And your answer is?

    Parent

    Jim, your comments (none / 0) (#156)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:29:54 PM EST
    show you to have the same intellectual ability and attitudes as Sarah Palin.

    We have flattered you too much by engaging with you.   You are not following the conversation, do not seem to be able to stay on topic, or cite facts that support your position.

    In short, we have vastly overestimated your intellectual ability to engage in an informed discussion.

    Parent

    Again (none / 0) (#164)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 01:24:36 PM EST
    You have lost the debate.

    You can't deny the facts.

    All you can do is insult.

    And I have never over estimated your ability....

    lol

    Parent

    Only in your (none / 0) (#166)
    by MKS on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 03:48:34 PM EST
    mind.

    Your arguments have been destroyed.

    You made the humiliating comment that the Bahamas and the Virgin Island are part of Latin America.  But I guess you are so uninformed you do not know how stupid you sound.

    You spout nonsense about peons without even knowing what that means.

    Parent

    And the U.S never ever spent (none / 0) (#146)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 01:36:24 PM EST
    tens of millions of dollars in money and resources propping up and training corrupt, incompetant dictators and vile thugs down there. Right?

    This great land of hard-working, self-reliant people has no moral responsibility at all to those people and for the way the lazy peon/owner culture down there has evolved in the last 100+ years.

    Here, here, Jim.

    Parent

    jondee... Why do you make things up (none / 0) (#154)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:24:37 PM EST
    that I never said??

    Is it a disease you caught while frequenting certain blogs?? Should we call the CDC??

    Now, speaking of moral responsibility, where have you been demanding that Obama support Iraq???

    We owe them much more than we owe countries that we have never invaded, never destroyed their governments, never destroyed their infrastructure and..... are essentially of no use in the defense of our country????

    Parent

    We did much of that to Guatemala (none / 0) (#158)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:33:31 PM EST
    So (none / 0) (#160)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:48:42 PM EST
    the answer is yes, we do have a moral responsibility to these people but you don't care and would rather quickly change the subject to something else you know little about.

    Btw, the multiple question marks and exclamation points don't make your statements and questions anymore compelling or meaningful. If it's a tic that manifests when you get excited, I suggest you take a pill or something.

    Parent

    And the U.S never ever spent (none / 0) (#147)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 01:37:29 PM EST
    tens of millions of dollars in money and resources propping up and training corrupt, incompetant dictators and vile thugs down there. Right?

    This great land of hard-working, self-reliant people has no moral responsibility at all to those people and for the way the lazy peon/owner culture down there has evolved in the last 100+ years.

    Here, here, Jim.

    Parent

    How would you know (none / 0) (#137)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 12:35:25 PM EST
    what the history of the countries in "CA" and "SA" is?

    You have never been to any of them.

    But, ah, you said you did travel to the Bahamas and the Virgin Islands when I asked you if you had ever lived in Latin America.

    You have no idea what you are talking about.  You have no knowledge of the history of Latin America..  But that doesn't stop you from pretending you actually know something.

    The problem is we tend to take your foolishness seriously.   You do take up a lot of bandwidth with your stupid, vacuaous, ignorant ideas.

    Where did you learn about the centuries of the "owner/peon" culture? You have never been there.   Did you read something on a right wing blog?  Which one?


    Parent

    Your complete ingorance of (none / 0) (#139)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 12:46:27 PM EST
    of what you call "SA" and "CA" is proven by your stupid assertion that you visited Latin America when you visited the Bahamas and the Virgin Islands.

    That was a painfully stupid answer, exposing that you know less than the average fourth grader here in California.  

     You know absolutely nothing about Central America or South America.

    Parent

    And this is your reply?? (none / 0) (#142)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 01:10:30 PM EST
    Horse hockey. Let's look at what wrote:

    But first, what was I replying to? Angel's comment.

    I've lived here my entire life but have traveled extensively all over the world for business and pleasure. Hardly a "low information type" but insult away if it makes you feel better about yourself.

    You and Angel then engaged in some back scratching in which we find that Angel lives in Austin.

    Saying Austin represents Texas is like saying Chicago represents downstate IL or Detroit the rest of MI.

    You then wanted to know if I had lived in Latin America. I replied.

    Nope, but I claim to be an Angel expert based on my travel in PR, Virgin Is, Bahamas, and Mexico.
    Everything I saw confirms what I have written. Great people, great natural resources... lousy governments.

    So in context, I was just listing some of the places I have traveled in the southern part of the world... And when you got all flustered about it I pointed out that I understood and even accepted blame for including the Bahamas and noted when Spain had signed them over to the English.

    Now, since you have no argument bears observation all you can do is make up straw men, declare victory in bold letters and leave,

    But facts are stubborn things and won't go away.

    The problem is the culture just as the problem with the Irish was the culture.

    People don't just leave a place that is good.

    BTW - You should read, "The Contested Plains." I can't remember the author but it was published by the U of Kansas press and is a study of the immigration into the plains.

    The main point is that large migrations of people, as we now have from the south, only happen when external forces make them move.

    And the secondary point is that if a people do not protect their borders then they lose their land/country.

    Parent

    What utter nonsense (none / 0) (#153)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:21:03 PM EST
    You spout jibberish about the "history" of the owner/paen culture in Latin America.  You know nothing, nothing at all, about the history or culture of Latin America.   Maybe you ate Mexican food once.  Every response of yours reveals how profoundly stupid and bigotted your ideas about Latin America are.

    I suppose you are bored and just come to spout all this uninformed stuff.  The problem with the ignorant is that they do not know they are ignorant.

    You make up all this stuff about the culture and history of Latin America, and you in the same breath reveal your stupidity by saying the Bahamas and the Virgin Island are in Latin America.

    You have no idea what you are talking about.

    I have asked you what you have read about Latin America, and you respond with reference to immigration into the Great Plains?  Are you really serious???

    What do the Great Plains have to do with Latin America?  Are Native Americans the same as Latinos in your book?  All people with darker complexions than yours are all alike?  

    You comments are stupid, bigotted and without any basis in fact at all.  

     

    Parent

    What I know about Latin America (none / 0) (#157)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:30:18 PM EST
    is that we are being flooded with people leaving lands and a culture that has failed.

    Now, if you want to argue that they are leaving a place that is nurturing and helpful to them, go ahead.

    As for the book, then don't. Your lack of knowledge shows through and why should I help you?

    But again. You have no facts. You have lost the debate. So you spout the personal attacks.

    BTW - Why aren't you at work today? Us old people are depending on you to keep our Soc Sec and Medicare fully funded... or at least enough that Obama stealing from it won't be noticed.

    Parent

    In other words (none / 0) (#159)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 02:45:55 PM EST
    you ate tacos once and are now an expert on Central and South America?

    You did visit the Bahamas and the Virign Islands though.

    Tell us about your visit to Mexico.  Where and how long?  Have a couple of Margaritas at a resort and now know everything about Latin America?  

    Your views are a joke.

    Parent

    I also had refried beans ... (none / 0) (#163)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 01:22:46 PM EST
    And the BS re B and VI has been refuted..

    You can't deny the facts so you insult.

    Typical.

    Parent

    You cite no facts (none / 0) (#165)
    by MKS on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 03:45:01 PM EST
    You go with your armchair intuition.  

    You have cited no facts.  Just homespun Southern fried bigotry.  

    You have no idea what you are talking about.

    Parent

    Taunt Detroit?? (1.00 / 2) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:17:16 PM EST
    I don't have to. It has destroyed itself. And it wasn't blacks, or muslims.

    It was a corrupt Democratic city government that stole the city blind in order to enrich themselves.

    Same with the CA and SA countries. It wasn't, and isn't, the people. It was and is corrupt governments that stole the country blind in order to enrich themselves.

    Oh, the evileeee US may have helped. But we didn't have an occupation force in place.

    You know, it is most enjoyable watching you fail miserably in the debate and then playing the race card.


    Occupation force (none / 0) (#82)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:51:33 PM EST
    Yes, we did in a way.

    Reagan sent a lot of military equipment and weapons.  We had the CIA there.   The Guatemalan military had U.S. made helicopters.....and all kinds of aid proping up the military dictatorships.....

    We had U.S. Special Forces there at times....

    Parent

    Honduras president blames U.S. drug policy (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:59:42 AM EST
    This has probably been posted here.  Two weeks old.  Still worth a read

    (Reuters) - Honduran President Juan Hernandez blamed U.S. drug policy for sparking violence in Central American countries and driving a surge of migration to the United States, according to an interview published on Monday.

    Hernandez, who took office in January after winning on a pledge to be tough on crime, said only a drop in violence would curb the wave of families and unaccompanied minors fleeing Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras who have overwhelmed temporary detention facilities on the U.S. border.

    "Honduras has been living in an emergency for a decade," Hernandez told Mexican daily newspaper Excelsior. "The root cause is that the United States and Colombia carried out big operations in the fight against drugs. Then Mexico did it."

    Those operations pushed drug traffickers into Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador, he suggested, adding: "This is creating a serious problem for us that sparked this migration."



    He has a point (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:39:50 AM EST
    but does he also blame our economy, freedom and safety??

    Of course not. That would mean he and his culture is a complete failure and need to change.

    Parent

    Oh say can you see.. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 01:24:09 PM EST
    What other countries have crazies who feel compelled to patrol schools with guns?

    How many countries have more people in prison?


    Parent

    And your point is what?? (1.00 / 2) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:30:18 PM EST
    I would hazard a guess that, for example, Nigeria has fewer people in prison.

    You would prefer to live there??

    And people who want to protect children are "crazy?"

    Well, given that one of the claims of those demanding we keep all the children flooding across our border to protect them from being returned...

    I'd say you're half right.

    Parent

    Better than Nigeria.. (none / 0) (#40)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:45:40 PM EST
    The Chamber of Commerce and tourism board's new motto?

    You should submit that to them and see if they can use it.

    Parent

    How about? (1.00 / 2) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 04:08:48 PM EST
    "Our school children only get killed in gun free zones."

    That's accurate.

    And what have you against Nigeria??

    Parent

    Where do you get this stuff (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 04:58:46 PM EST
    "Our school children only get killed in gun free zones."

    That's accurate.

    Utterly, laughably false ...

    Parent

    Schools aren't gun free zones?? (1.00 / 2) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 05:32:31 PM EST
    The things I learn...

    Oh wait! Yman wants to show us how clever he is by saying that I shouldn't have put "only" in the sentence.

    Well, I agree.

    But since Yman doesn't have a life I'm always happy to help him out. I mean I know he's lonely with nothing to do but stalk me.

    How about "Our children get killed in gun free zones designed at the request of idiots."

    There. That's accurate.

    Parent

    Embarassing, huh? (none / 0) (#54)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 06:00:44 PM EST
    Making such blatantly false claims and getting caught ... once again.

    BTW - Far more children are killed in "gun zones" than "gun free zones".  Following your logic, I guess the gun zones are designed by super-idiots.

    Parent

    Come now (1.00 / 1) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:16:04 PM EST
    Yman. Admit that schools are gun free zones. And that the children killed in them wouldn't have been killed with a guard or well trained teacher.

    Of course you won't.

    Parent

    C'mon Jim (none / 0) (#66)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:32:17 PM EST
    Admit that you were caught - yet again - making another blatantly false claim.  Guess that's why you always try to run away and hide by trying to change the subject.

    As for what would have happened with a hypothetical guard or armed teacher in your "gun free zone", that's shear speculation.  OTOH - the fact thousands of children are killed and wounded in "gun zones" is a fact.

    Parent

    At least you're not (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 08:47:36 PM EST
    blaming the teacher's union for using children as human shields. Not that I'd put it past you.

    Parent
    jondee (1.00 / 2) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:17:53 PM EST
    Using children as human shields is what Hamas does.

    So why are you trying to hide their despicable actions????

    Little water carrying going on!

    Parent

    Gaza (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:22:41 PM EST
    is a very small place. I suppose if you were a Nazi --and I'm not entirely convinced that you're not -- I'm sure you'd say the English used human shields in the Battle of Britain.

    You're obviously a brutal, callous person who takes a perverse delight in seeing suffering inflicted on your percieved enemies and their children. What a tragic way to waste one's life

    Parent

    Sorry, but are you claiming (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:26:26 PM EST
    that these CA countries are success stories??

    I mean really....

    Do you mean why is Guatemala (none / 0) (#41)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:47:39 PM EST
    not a success?

    Do you really want to go there?

    Guatemala could have easily become like Costa Rica.  Do you really want to hear what happened?

    You really do not know what you are talking about.  You have little exposure to Latinos in person it would appear.  Ignornce does breed suspicion in many in the South.

    Parent

    Look, quit avoiding (1.00 / 2) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 04:10:29 PM EST
    Just tell us why the economies of all the CA countries flood us with people are now and ever have been bad.

    Come on.

    You can do it!

    Parent

    You are quite ignorant (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 07:44:40 PM EST
    of Central America.

    I have spent hundreds maybe thousands of hours reviewing original documents released by the State Deparment, correponding with noted academics in the field, and making a consistent effort to learn the facts of Central America.

    I have consistently run across people like you for decades.  Enamored of slogans, allergic to any kind of true inquiry, and completely oblivious to the death and destruction that the ideas you support cause.

    The problem in Guatemala is the U.S. supported horrible dictators for decades.   The ensuing Peace Accords never really repaired the damage and the narco trafficantes have taken over.   Our drug policies have made it very profitable for the narco trafficantes.

    Parent

    My goodness. You have spent thousands (1.00 / 3) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:24:13 PM EST
    of what.... hours....??? Doing what??

    My question is quite simple.

    Why has the countries in question failed so miserably to provide for their citizens??

    Is it the evileeeeeee US??

    Or perhaps it is the culture.

    I mean, did the US manufacture the dictators you speak?? Or did they come from within the social-political system inside the countries??

    I don't speak in slogans. I just ask questions of people, such as you, who seem incapable of answering a question.


    Parent

    My goodness. Actual scholarship (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 04:37:23 AM EST
    You know what Texas PTAs would say about that behavior: leads to the undermining of authority, secularism,interracial dating, and gun-free zones.

    There never has been any such thing as an innate "culture" uninfluenced by actual historical events. To talk about so-called culture as something issolated from actual events,  leads to viewing human behavior as purely instinctual, the way animal behavior is.

    In that context, to insist on only talking about "culture" apart from history can only gallop in the direction of racism.

    Parent

    My goodness. You have spent thousands (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:24:13 PM EST
    of what.... hours....??? Doing what??

    My question is quite simple.

    Why has the countries in question failed so miserably to provide for their citizens??

    Is it the evileeeeeee US??

    Or perhaps it is the culture.

    I mean, did the US manufacture the dictators you speak?? Or did they come from within the social-political system inside the countries??

    I don't speak in slogans. I just ask questions of people, such as you, who seem incapable of answering a question.


    Parent

    The U.S. did manufacture (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 09:41:02 PM EST
    dictators....

    You really have this thing about culture.  We have a religious war against all of Islam.  

    And, now you say it is Central America's inferior culture....

    But what does that culture consist of?  The large landowners in Guatemala until recent times were European.   Brits.  Germans.  Nazis.  Yes, real Nazis ran entire Departments in Guatemala.  Swastikas flew from Municipal builings.  See Greg Grandin.

    The Guatemalans themselves overthrew Ubico and installed a Democracy, held elections and implemented all kinds of agrarian reforms. It was Guatemala's Decade of Spring.

    In 1954, the CIA overthrew the Guatemalan democracy and installed a hand picked dictator.  The U.S. supported their handpicked dictators for decades.  The Guatemalans, first University students in the capital and then Mayans in the rural areas, fought back.

    The Guatemalan military then gained support from Reagan and became a ruling class unto its own, and began to run drugs in Guatemala.  That  brings us to the narco traficantes.....

    So, it was a combination of Brits, Germans, and the U.S. that pretty much ruined Guatemala.  

    But you just toss off your home spun philosophy without knowing anything, but totally sure that it was Latino culture that caused the problems.   A better example of chauvinism and bigotry would be hard to find.

    Query:  If Southern culture is so triumphant and better why did the South lose the Civil War?

    Parent

    Uh no, MKS (1.00 / 3) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:01:29 PM EST
    Why do you make things up?? Don't you know what that's called??

    We don't have a religious war against Islam. But Islamic terrorists have a religious war against us.

    And the evileeee CIA without the US military overthrew the government and installed a dictator... The CIA had no help from the locals??

    Wow. I had no idea it was so powerful. Why in the world did we invade Iraq?? Just send in the spooks.

    Look around you. It has been culture all along. Look at all the CA and SA countries. Despite an abundance of natural resources and vigorous hard working people there has been almost no success.

    Now we find the current ruling classes exporting their people.

    Know what?? We should stop the export and tell them to go home and fix their own problems. We don't need any additional.

    So mutter and insult all you want. I speak observable truth.


    Parent

    All of Latin America? (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:05:37 PM EST
    All of SA and CA, you say?

    Lord love a duck....

    Parent

    Read and learn (none / 0) (#76)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 10:15:44 PM EST
    This wikipedia article is pretty good.

    Parent
    Obama with a bone in his nose.. (none / 0) (#43)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:54:32 PM EST
    What more needs to be said?

    Prove what? (none / 0) (#44)
    by Angel on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 03:54:39 PM EST


    Tell us why the people are leaving?? (1.00 / 3) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 04:06:51 PM EST
    And it can't be just the drug wars.

    Could it be their economy is terrible and Obams's statements and actions have them believing that if they get here they can stay??

    Parent

    You're really in a semi-panic (none / 0) (#86)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 03, 2014 at 04:53:57 AM EST
    state about the fact that the scarey little brown people will never vote for Rick Perry and Joe the Plumber.

    Oh the humanity.

    Parent

    please stay on topic (none / 0) (#51)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Aug 02, 2014 at 04:59:42 PM EST
    of the legislation. Off topic comments will be deleted as will insults and name-calling between commenters. Save your replies on your own computer if you want to retain a copy. If you want to attack other commenters, as opposed to challenge their views on the topic of my post, you will have to do it elsewhere.