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Thursday Open Thread

I think I'm ISIS'd out for a while, at least until they announce the name of the mysterious black-clad executioner. I'm also going to follow the Oscar Pistorius verdict. For other topics, here's a new open thread.

< Obama's Speech on ISIS: Live Blog and Reactions | Oscar Pistorius Verdict Reading >
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    Polished Concrete floor (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 07:42:13 AM EST
    Heard of this?  I had not.  A friend just bought a (very pricy) house in Palm Springs that has one

    Beautiful.

    Renevolution (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:00:20 AM EST
    It's cheap to do -- a single coating from a can -- and it is only the beginning of a basement renevolution.

    When you are tired if it you can then put tile over it.

    And then when tired of the tile you can put carpet down.

    And by then you are tired of it all and sell the house and move out.

    Parent

    Yes, this was all the rage here several years ago. (none / 0) (#8)
    by Angel on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:18:17 AM EST
    I don't care for it as it can be awfully noisy and have echos as do many hard surfaces.  

    Parent
    I told him they were going to have (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:20:39 AM EST
    To get some plastic stemware

    :)

    Parent

    Aren't those floors (none / 0) (#10)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:40:30 AM EST
    incredibly cold to walk on in bare feet?
    I like wood floors.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:53:03 AM EST
    In Palm Springs that's probably a good thing.  

    Parent
    I'd be laying on it (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:11:33 AM EST
    Cheek to floor, on my worst pre-menopausal days.

    This floor calls for a gorgeous area rug

    It's like a bare canvas

    Parent

    My friend (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:18:40 AM EST
    Who is a serious collector, said it was like walking on a work of art.

    Parent
    Usually Heated (none / 0) (#38)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:21:39 AM EST
    Apart from the beauty of a polished concrete floor is the fact that you can run your heating tubes though the concrete.. It is a really nice way of heating a house.

    Parent
    Yes, and it is common in Korea (none / 0) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 01:27:17 PM EST
    Not the stained concrete that I know of, they like linoleum, but they run water lines through their concrete slabs, and in the winter you have instant hot water at your tap too.

    Parent
    Nicest Heat I know Of (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 01:42:29 PM EST
    And I am sure you can run AC lines through as well... cold water for summer..

    Parent
    And the best for (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 05:31:33 PM EST
    Allergy sufferers

    Parent
    Was wondering about the AC situation, (none / 0) (#162)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:24:10 AM EST
    thanks for that info squeaky.  Of course the cold water from the tap is not even close to being cold down here.  Every time I visit Aspen My teeth about freeze while brushing them.  Rain, thunder, and barak down this way.  My poor ski raced bones ache; wish we had mmj but it's not looking good for Florida this week after it did look good last week.  Hard to keep up with it.

    Parent
    68ºF (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:33:12 AM EST
    Cooling (Summer) Modes
    Geo-Solar Hybrid Heating and Cooling - Shown in Heating Mode (01/22/10)

    Geo-Solar Hybrid Heating and Cooling - Shown in Heating Mode (01/22/10)
    Occupied - Closed
    During cooling mode, radiant floor supply water 3-way mixing valve V-6 blends cold water from the mass thermal storage tank via the heat exchanger with the return water from the radiant floor distribution system to maintain heating hot water supply temperature T-8 setpoint (68 deg F, adj).
    Pump P-3 operates to supply the mixed cold water to the primary loop manifold.
    The primary loop manifold supplies water to the various spaces zoned with individual thermostats.
    When a zone thermostat calls for cooling, the pump for that zone (P4, P5, P6, or P7) is activated until the zone thermostat setpoint is reached (cooling 76F adj) at which point the pump would be deactivated. Only the pump for the zone calling for cooling is activated, all other zones remain off unless they are also calling for cooling.
    Zone pumps P4, P5, P6, and P7 run independent from each other. Any number can be activated at the same time. If any zone pump is activated, pump P-3 must be activated and valve V-6 must be modulating the temperature.

    link

    Parent

    Condensation Dew Point (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:37:02 AM EST
    To prevent condensation, the temperature of the radiant cooling surface(s) must be maintained at no less than the indoor dew point (for example, 55°F [13°C] if the indoor dry-bulb temperature and RH are 75°F [24°C] and 50%, respectively).

    Maintaining a minimum floor temperature of approximately 65°F (18°C) is recommended to provide a safety margin relative to condensation and to avoid the floor feeling too cold to occupants.

    link
    Also, a dehumidifying system makes the whole house feel cooler.

    Parent

    Radiant Cooling is very tricky stuff (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by Slado on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 04:01:17 PM EST
    As your link points out dew point is a key matter when it comes to radiant cooling.

    Cooling air involves removing two types of heat (latent - moisture/ sensible - energy).   To do both simultaneously traditional system run air across a cold coil (45 to 50F) and brings the air down to it's dew point.   This removes both the energy heat and the grains of moisture which is the latent heat.  

    Radiant cooling like radiant heating is purely sensible.   Meaning you do not effect the moisture content of the air, you only remove the sensible heat.

    To do this you must have a very tight house in terms of your envelop because you can't allow outdoor moisture to come in too fast.   Also you would need high level controls that monitor moisture content in the air so they you would stop radiant cooling if it gets too humid.  Also you then need a separate cooling device to take care of the latent load because Outside Air eventually gets in and we humans produce latent heat because we emit moisture.

    In the HVAC industry radiant cooling is done with big radiant panels and what we call passive beams.   The places this is done are mostly areas with a long heating season and a relatively dry climate.   Canada, Europe and as someone said Korea.

    You wouldn't want to try this in Miami, or the South East.   Humidity would be a constant threat and once you lost control of the humidity in your house your floor would become wet and it'd be trouble.  Also because you would require extra controls and a separate device to remove moisture non of this is cost effective.

    All that said radiant heat is the best way to heat anything.   Radiant heat heats all the surfaces of the area your heating and once the area is saturated the room looses heat at a much slower rate then a room heated with forced air heat (traditional gas furnace or heat pump).    
     

    Parent

    Wish we hadn't allowed ourselves (none / 0) (#166)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:45:30 AM EST
    To be talked out of adding a dehumidifying system by the not as expert as they want to be company that installed our new system.

    It removes the mold spores that I am allergic to, but with dehumidifying I could easily keep it several degrees warmer indoors and it would still be very comfortable.

    They removed all of our "old ducting", but the new flexible tubes they placed in the attic are growing mold around the sealed connections.  Whatever they used to do it with seems to be an excellent mold growing medium.

    Parent

    Yup (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:06:57 AM EST
    Everything is on a slab here.  Because of my asthma we removed all the carpeting and we thought about this.  Some of the stains turn out beautiful.  We would have to leave our home though while this was going on because....asthma :)

    The cost though, no more expensive than other flooring options if you choose to do this during the build.

    One contractor here has his whole house stained.  A new wine bar here tore everything out and had it done.  Very old building, they probably re-poured a thin coat over the old foundation slab. And Red Brick Pizza too, they did their slab in a red stain.

    Maybe someday at Chez Tracy

    Parent

    My Last Place... (none / 0) (#23)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:08:00 AM EST
    ...was six sides of concrete.  Which in Houston was great, could turn off my AC and not return to an oven.  Polished concrete looks great if there is history to see in the floor and it's a big space,  My place was neither and the novelty was short lived.

    Parent
    I have seen (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:17:19 AM EST
    Elegant room borders stained in using stencils.  I think it works for old or new.  An artistic mason can spread a thin coat too and create false age :)

    Parent
    But the Whole Point... (none / 0) (#40)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:31:35 AM EST
    ...to me is imagining the history.  I looked at a loft in a converted factory and you see where the machines and walls and everything else once stood.

    It was the history that made the polished floors  remarkable, not the actual markings.

    Parent

    I love the stained areas (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:36:34 AM EST
    On the one pictured

    Parent
    I Assume... (none / 0) (#55)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:14:32 PM EST
    ...a wall once stood there.

    Parent
    Once it gets a crack in it.... (none / 0) (#30)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:50:41 AM EST
    you have a cracked floor...  forever.

    Parent
    Love that it's easily cleaned, (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:28:27 AM EST
    unlike tiles that capture pounds of dog hair and Oreo crumbs in the grout lines.

    Parent
    My laundry room that leads to the backyard (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:42:01 AM EST
    is tiled. O.M.G. The dirt/mud that the grout catches is nuts! And that is with throw rugs/runner down by the door! And the pet hair is an issue also. So glad it isn't in the kitchen and other rooms. Everything else is wood. It's a beautiful floor, but d@mn, if I owned this place, it would be GONE.

    Parent
    the tile in the hallway and kitchen and do stained concrete, but then life gets in the way...

    Parent
    That interesting (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 05:35:33 PM EST
    I was considering doing my whole house in tile.  I love the way it looks and feels.    I wonder if it is as bad with the kind of tile where the grout is more even with the tile surface.

    like this

    Parent

    Nope. A bit better, yet still a pain. (none / 0) (#121)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 06:25:32 PM EST
    Your best bet for tile is the wider/shallower vs narrow grout (easier to clean) and a grout color that matches the dirt in your yard. I have a natural color grout in my floor, sadly it's several shades lighter than the dirt :P

    You have 3 dogs, right? Remember, I only have one . . . she's the messiest dog on earth, but still only one set of paws tramping through that room from the yard vs 3.

    Parent

    Hmmm (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 06:41:22 PM EST
    Good information.  Yes three dogs. 12 big dirty feet.  I like wood but I think it's to high maintenance.  Concrete is not an option because of the construction.

    Parent
    Wood is a breeze compared to the tile (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 09:26:42 PM EST
    the house is all wood except for laundry room and bath. I dread the laundry room floor, have no prob doing the wood. I just canister vac and then steam. With the new floor steamers, wood floors became even easier than in the past.  Rox can take a drink of water and 'dribble' 12 ft (was just looking at that 'marvel' today!) and walk all through it and around elsewhere with her dirty paws and it really doesn't annoy me. Now walking through the laundry room with wet dirty feet . . .  :P Also, I can also just dust the floors with the floor duster to freshen up between cleans (aka, mom's coming over).

    Parent
    Thanks all of you (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 03:17:43 AM EST
    I have been having the same mental debate for years as I ponder eventual replacement of my linoleum. I have had tile in the past and the dirty grout drives me up the wall.

    But I wonder about dog paws scratching wood? Is that an issue?

    Parent

    Not Only... (none / 0) (#158)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:06:27 AM EST
    ...do they scratch it up, they constantly lose traction on it.  And I seriously worry about one of them hurting themselves on it when they get older.  Once a week, chin first on floor cause they lost traction getting up.  Like a cartoon, all four legs go out, and they fall flat.  It's so funny, yet so sad.

    I have put runners in the hall and a big rug in my bedroom.  It helps, but damn, it take away from the wood, so what was the point.  But can't have carpet, tile in a bedroom is... not for me, so wood it was.

    I really don't get it, they rarely lose traction on the tile, but that wood is like ice to them.  The scratches are everywhere, but you have to have the right light to see them. I would imagine they could be buffed out without sanding.  But I am not about to make it slipperier.

    Parent

    That too (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 01:43:04 PM EST
    Especially with one with a bad leg

    Parent
    I've been intrigued by (none / 0) (#188)
    by sj on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 02:40:50 PM EST
    the vinyl planks that look like wood.

    I was dubious when I first heard about it, but if it was good enough for Candace Olson to use...

    Parent

    Me too... (none / 0) (#192)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 03:24:07 PM EST
    I used the faux vinyl tile planks in the basement bathroom renovation post-flood...piece of cake to install, even for a hack like me, and the price was right.  Looks pretty good.

    I'd love to rip every piece of stank dirty carpet out of the place and install the faux wood vinyl floor.  Before the Notorious D.O.G. died he was pissin' all over the place and even though I steamed cleaned all the carpet with industrial strength solutions ya can still get a whiff of dog urine in his favorite corners.  Not to mention all the bong water spills over the years.  I hate carpet with a passion.

    Parent

    Agree with stray (none / 0) (#125)
    by sj on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 06:51:02 PM EST
    Moreover if you are doing a large tile be sure and used sanded grout. Nobody at Home Depot said a thing when I bought floor tile and smooth grout. Her best advice, though, is a grout color that matches the dirt. And then seal it like crazy.

    Parent
    If you are collecting an excessive amount (none / 0) (#173)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 10:38:54 AM EST
    you may want to consider re-sealing the grout.

    Clean it good and spray on the new sealer which is available from Loews, Home Depot, etc.

    Parent

    I seal mine with plain ole (none / 0) (#175)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 10:45:26 AM EST
    Pledge Floor Care.  They bought the company that used to be called Future.  It is Varathane.  It lasts as long as the really expensive sealer products.  I also use it to cover up on my kitchen table where I set a really hot dish once and it fogged the finish....shhhhhhhh.  My husband refinished the table :). He doesn't know I botched yet.  I'll get a couple more yrs out of it before he hauls it back out to the shop.

    Parent
    I still love concrete floors (none / 0) (#57)
    by sj on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:28:40 PM EST
    When I win the lottery and completely redo the back end of my 110 year old house I will have heated concrete floors with some sort of pattern.

    I love new stained concrete floors when it's all artsy and stuff. And I love old stained concrete floors when it's filled with life and history.

    It's just hard to stand in for long periods of time so probably not good for kitchens of those who cook. I could totally handle it.

    Parent

    They have those cushy mats for your legs (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:56:28 PM EST
    in the kitchen now :)

    Parent
    We have tile in our kitchen, no problem (none / 0) (#60)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:32:22 PM EST
    with standing, cooking, etc. Can't imagine wood, for example, would be any less "hard" to stand on.

    Parent
    I used to occasionally (none / 0) (#61)
    by sj on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:35:45 PM EST
    man a booth at various events for my former company. When the floor was concrete my feet and legs (my shins!) would ache like crazy before the day was done. Wood floors didn't have that effect. I have no theory about it, I only relate my experience. :)

    Parent
    Fair enough! (none / 0) (#62)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:37:20 PM EST
    We have hardwood and it is much easier to (none / 0) (#79)
    by Angel on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:17:28 PM EST
    stand on than concrete or tile or stone, at least that's my experience.  

    Parent
    We have both, hardwood and tile. (none / 0) (#81)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:18:40 PM EST
    Neither my wife or I have ever noticed any difference, but that may be just us.

    Parent
    Yes, they are very nice! (none / 0) (#59)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:32:05 PM EST
    Never seen one in a house, but a friend has one in his fancy garage for his fancy sports cars.

    Parent
    In Florida (none / 0) (#67)
    by ragebot on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 01:25:33 PM EST
    Terrazzo floors were very common and well thought of.  Thought every one knew about them.  Much better than what was in the pix.  Lots of expensive homes had them.

    Terrazzo Floor

    Parent

    Recently at a wedding, I met a woman (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:28:18 PM EST
    who is the widow of the Terrazzo original manufacturer or patent holder or something...she still gets a residual on sales.

    She had very nice jewelry!

    Parent

    I like terrazzo as well (none / 0) (#75)
    by sj on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:07:42 PM EST
    Very much. But it's the creativity in the staining of concrete that really makes me smile.

    Parent
    Lotta Terrazzo floors down here in hurricane land (none / 0) (#92)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:16:17 PM EST
    My friend did her driveway with (none / 0) (#103)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 04:14:52 PM EST
    stain and stencil. She's a decorative painter, so her driveway was just a screamin' blank canvas to her . . .

    Parent
    Another pic of the floor (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 06:17:26 PM EST
    GA governor's (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:13:58 AM EST
    race is all tied up here.

    I see the GOP fighting back with the old standby (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 03:27:52 AM EST
    Voter suppression. Making no bones about it either.  Would love for this to be the tipping point when this stops working. I think Ferguson will have had some positive impact.

    Parent
    More evidence (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:54:25 AM EST
    for all those who oppose a minimum wage hike.

    The sky really doesn't fall.

    In July 2013, hotelier Scott Ostrander stood before the city council in SeaTac, Wash., pleading with the town not to adopt a $15 minimum wage.

    "I am shaking here tonight because I am going to be forced to lay people off," he said, according to an account in the Washington State Wire. "I'm going to take away their livelihood. That hurts. It really, really hurts. . . . And what I am going to have to do on Jan. 1 is to eliminate jobs, reduce hours -- and as soon as hours are reduced, benefits are reduced."

    SeaTac, a community around Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, went ahead with its plan, becoming, on Jan. 1, the first jurisdiction in the nation to set a $15 minimum wage, according to the labor movement. And Ostrander's hotel, the Cedarbrook Lodge? It went ahead with a $16 million expansion that adds 63 rooms, a spa -- and jobs.

    Ostrander, then Cedarbrook's general manager, told Seattle's KIRO-TV as the new wage law took effect that it was proceeding with the expansion "to try to recoup significant expenses that will be incurred as a result" of the higher wage. So the minimum-wage hike forced the hotel to add rooms, revenues and workers. The horror!



    Boys who cried wolf... (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:28:29 AM EST
    or would "wolves who cried boy" be more apt? ;)

    They also predicted the end of the fast-food franchise industry.  From your link...

    Likewise, the International Franchise Association has sued to block implementation of the law, arguing that nobody "in their right mind" would become a franchisee in Seattle. Yet Togo's sandwiches, a franchise chain, is expanding into Seattle, saying the $15 wage isn't a deterrent.

    Aside...how many lobbying associations does the fast food industry need?  IFA, NCCR...perhaps the real roadblock to fair wages is the fortune spent lobbying against fair wages?  Ya can't cry profit poverty while paying lobbyists 6 figures...not with a straight face anyway.  I see the same crap in my work...imagine how competitive our prices would be and competitive the wages would be if the execs stopped paying people big money to do I don't know what really...jerk off with an expense account?

    Parent

    No doubt, lobbying is lucrative. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 04:34:43 PM EST
    Disclosure: I'm a registered lobbyist myself.

    But it doesn't necessarily have to be so mercenary, nor should it be allowed to exist on a quasi-industrial scale, as is presently the case in Washington, D.C. and the capital cities of larger states, such as Sacramento, Albany, Austin and Tallahassee. Part of our mission as consultants is to train our non-profit clients to become their own lobbyists, because really, they are in the best position to recount their own story and make their own case.

    I further volunteer to train private citizens and community organizations how to effectively lobby their elected officials. If lobbying legislative bodies is considered free speech, then one way to counteract the corrosive effect of corporate lobbying is with citizen lobbyists. If you seek change, then you must embody that change.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Yeah, Soon as I Said Something... (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 09:11:31 AM EST
    ...about Mordiggian acting like a child, my posts were downgraded.  This is why I don't have kids, because Mordiggian would be locked in a closet right.  

    I really liked what you said about your man and how he regards you.  Deserved 5+

    Now let's argue about something, I think drugs will one day lead to end of all wars, cure cancer, and replace fossil fuels and provide an entirely unknown form of energy that will revolutionize how we procreate.  Just kidding, drugs are bad.

    Ratings fairy has arrived (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 09:32:41 AM EST
    In your face I got a 1!

    Parent
    You did? (none / 0) (#21)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 09:52:05 AM EST
    It seems to be gone now.  How sad.

    Parent
    Is There an End Date on Your Tantrum ? (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:53:32 AM EST
    Mordiggian 88 it's been a day.

    Never anything but 5's from you, then I call you out on your non-sense, and 2's on every post.

    May I suggest a timeout or a nap, how about a gogurt, my nephew goes bonkers for them.

    Either way, can you go bother someone else, surely there are loads of people who dislike you more than I, go bother them.

    Parent

    Not only you and jb, Scott. (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 01:38:59 PM EST
    Anne has been singled out for the treatment, too. And as of this writing, the troll fairy has also targeted all my posts from last night in the Oscar Pistorius verdict thread and has bestowed upon each one of them a "2" rating.

    So, at the inherent risk of courting a "1" rating, I now revise my earlier contention from the previous open thread that a 12-year-old was blogging at TL. Obviously, given the extended online tantrum, we're dealing with a self-absorbed toddler.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I say "Whatever" (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 01:56:26 PM EST
    The solution is not to feed the troll.

    Parent
    Agreed. (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:07:47 PM EST
    We should consider the source, and wear our "2" ratings as badges of honor. Responding to such nonsense serves only to clog up the open threads, anyway. Henceforth, it's really not worth the bandwidth.

    Parent
    Donald... (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:47:01 PM EST
    ...just wanted to say thanks for reposting what I wrote Friday.  I know the rules and to be honest, I didn't want to change a word that perfectly described my friend, even if it meant deletion.

    That was a nice thing you did and it was appreciated.  

    Parent

    Donald he even went back to (5.00 / 4) (#82)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:19:14 PM EST
    our discussion of British and Scottish Sterling and down rated you but not me.  I'm sure I'll be on his 2 list now...horrors!!!

    Parent
    Mortigans ratings have been erased (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 06:54:21 PM EST
    for repeatedly giving out low ratings not based on the comment but on his/her view of the commenter.

    Parent
    There should be a "per thread" choice... (none / 0) (#129)
    by unitron on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:04:47 PM EST
    ...you get to comment, or you get to rate.

    Never both.

    Parent

    feature off.

    Failing that, simply ignore them. Really, who cares what someone rates your comment?

    For those who haven't tried it, you can enter "No" where it says "Rate?" up top.

    Besides relieving you of such childish temptations, it also results in a much, MUCH cleaner TL interface.

    Parent

    all the ratings by entering "Hide" next to "Rate?"

    Learn something new every day!


    Parent

    Thanks for that sarc... (none / 0) (#167)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:53:49 AM EST
    any fish out that way?  Our large edible fish are way out past the curve but the Bonefish are showing up and I do know where they live.  The Everglades are even more dangerous now with all those big a$$ Pythons writhing around with the even larger Lagartos (Spanish for Crocodiles).  Español es muy importante aqui.  Tight lines to you.  Oh yeah we have a lot of dorky fishing sayings here in the fabulous Florida keys.

    Parent
    The ocean she has been very generous (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 11:17:47 AM EST
    this summer.

    Many, many Yellow Tail and Yellow Fin, dorado, etc., taken in the Catalina area and even north of there, where usually you'd have to go down Mexico way. There has been many a pan-seared ahi dinner in the SUO household this summer.

    Our bonefish are corbina, and they were legion a month or so ago, although I still see one or two cruising the skinny these days.

    Freshwater/trout fishing has been ok, although the drought is taking its toll.

    Rumor is the last time off-shore was as epic as this summer, was the summer before the last el nino, so fingers X'd that this winter is big for rain.

    The tug is the drug.

    Tightlines!

    Parent

    Ted Cruz booed ... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:53:56 AM EST
    off the stage because sometimes you get what you deserve.

    One way to get away from ISIS (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:59:31 AM EST
    - maybe the only way, an ISS (space station) astronaut's time lapse video of earth and its surrounds.


    Mutiny on the Bounty? My theory. (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by Lfrieling on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:30:31 PM EST
    Internet research suggests that the following theory is not heretofore published.  

    Mutiny on the Bounty; Mutiny or heavy metal poisoning?

    By Leonard Frieling

    We know that the crew of the HMS Mutiny, after mutiny, settled on Pitcairn Island, in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, south of the Hawaiian Islands.

    We know that the valuable cargo being carried consisted primarily of small breadfruit trees, to be replanted upon arrival.  

    The transcript of the criminal trial against crewmembers for mutiny is readily available.  Included in the transcript is the quotation that the breadfruit saplings were being transported in "lead trays."  Fresh water would be kept in the lead trays to keep the plants watered and alive.

    Based upon that, it is suggested that the crew was affected by heavy metal poisoning from the lead-seeped fresh water.  Fresh water carried on a ship in the ocean is a very valuable commodity.  It is heavy, voluminous, essential for life, and not renewable in the Bounty's era.  My suspicion is that the crew used the water from the trays and trees for drinking water.  I'm not speculating as to what the officers used as a source of fresh water, and suspect that it might have been the same lead-laden fresh water.  

    If so, as the voyage progressed,  lead levels for anyone drinking the plant tray water would increase.   Heavy metal poisoning is cumulative over time.  The body does not purge itself of heavy metals such as mercury and lead.  

    Symptoms of heavy metal poisoning include several issues that can have direct impact on behavior.

    Anxious and irritable
    Brain fog
    Depression
    Extreme fatigue
    Insomnia
    Loss of memory and forgetfulness
    Prone to mood swings

    I postulate that the combination of the normal stresses and other dangers of a lengthy sea voyage of the era, when combined with the possible heavy metal poisoning was enough to tip the scales from a trade run to a famous mutiny. Lenny

    Speaking as a sailor (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by ragebot on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 04:56:23 PM EST
    I have to wonder just how much water was kept in lead lined trays and if much more water was not kept in casks.  I use to sprout avocado seeds in water and even after a day it was too rank for me to even think about drinking it.  I also had to add water every couple of days due to evaporation.  Keeping water in any tray does not seem like something a sailor would do.

    I am currently trying to get an educational permit to visit Cuba, the first island everyone agrees Columbus landed on.  There are several theories about the five island (according to his journal) his ships visited first.

    I am inclined to think Egg Island off the North end of Eleuthera was the first island he landed on.  Arnie Molander  had an interesting book with this claim.  What convinced me he was right was that (according to Columbus's journal) the third island he visited his crew took the tenders through the reef to a big island and filled up casks with water.  The only place in the Bahamas where fresh water meets the ocean is Andros and the only way Columbus could get to Andros as the third island is if he was coming from the North end of Eleuthera.

    If thing work out I hope to try and follow this possible Columbus route starting in October, at least till I get close to Cuba unless I get the permit. It is one thing to sit at a desk and come up with historical theories, but going out in the field and getting your hands dirty gives one a much different perspective.

    Parent

    Speaking as a member of Phi Alpha Theta, ... (none / 0) (#77)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:17:17 PM EST
    ... the National History Honor Society, might I suggest that you expound further on this particular topic, and submit it for consideration? Groundbreaking research into heretofore unexamined subjects such as yours is most always welcome.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Thanks Interesting suggestions (none / 0) (#148)
    by Lfrieling on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 07:18:33 AM EST
    Most interesting comments.  Initially, a friend and I did some Internet research and found NOTHING nearly on topic, with a wide range of searches.  I love the idea of further research, and have some thoughts on possible avenues.  Input welcome of course.

    Evaporation would certainly occur, and would have to be "replaced" if water were standing in the trays.  On the other hand, just watering the plants might well drip, and that water could not be wasted.  Did they carry enough water for plants and people?  I wonder if the manifest from the voyage is available.  IF there was standing water, it could have been consumed either intentionally,or by crew "cheating" on water rationing.  Personally, surviving on rum might have been safer if I'm right.  Thanks for the encouragement.  I will continue with my research, and will fill in the transcript citations in what I have.  Lenny

    Parent

    My research about (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by ragebot on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 10:08:07 AM EST
    Columbus has been hindered by questionable records from the period.  As an example the movies about the Bounty have claimed ship's stores were recorded but some of the stores were diverted and sold before the Bounty left port.  Another problem is how measuring is done.  We can easily go to the store and buy a gallon of water and feel confident we are getting a gallon of water.  In the Bounty's time this level of precision was not available.

    One of the biggest tasks Columbus (and his crew) engaged in was securing water.  Where ever the ships touched land the first thing they did was search for water, even before they searched for gold.  The records (in Columbus's log, which is really a transcription the original was lost) of where they got water and how much often times seem more detailed than any thing else.  Let's also remember many folks in this time period were not well versed in reading/writing/composition.

    My advice would be to try and get a description of the size and number of trays and determine just how much water they could hold.  Next try and determine just how much lead would leach into the water and how much damage that amount of lead would do to a human.  Also important is the number of water casks and the normal water ration.

    I have read the Bounty trilogy and the only time I recall any issues with water was in Men Against The Sea when Bligh and the loyalists were in open boats.  It might well be that the tankage on the Bounty was sufficient to meet the needs of those on the boat.

    I am able to sail on my boat for about two months with my tankage and have never gone that long with out rain supplementing my water supply.  This was (and still is) a common practice on long passages.  This is why I put such importance on field work.  Sailing on a boat and having to deal with water issues gives one a much better feel for the issue than sitting at a desk and coming up with theories about what happened.

    Parent

    If I recall... (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by desertswine on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 02:18:38 PM EST
    Bligh himself wrote an account of the mutiny.

    Parent
    Bligh's book Kindled and waiting for me. (none / 0) (#200)
    by Lfrieling on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 04:42:21 PM EST
    Fun idea for reading and information.  It is on my Kindle already.  Thanks <G>  Lenny

    Parent
    They were only at sea for 23 days (none / 0) (#186)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 02:33:32 PM EST
    when they mutinied. Doubtful lead poisoning was to blame.

    Parent
    According to the Mayo Clinic, ... (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 04:01:52 PM EST
    ... "Lead poisoning occurs when lead builds up in the body, often over a period of months or years." LINK. Most of the crew of HMS Bounty were longtime sailors, and the body doesn't purge itself of a heavy metal such as lead in the way it can most other substances. They took ten months to reach Tahiti from England via the Cape of Good Hope, and were in Tahiti for only five months before commencing the return voyage.

    That said, I don't subscribe to the lead poisoning theory for the Bounty mutiny, either. According to contemporaneous Royal Navy accounts comprised in part by interviews with her surviving crew both in England and on Pitcairn island where the mutineers ultimately settled, Fletcher Christian and his followers were motivated to mutiny by the seductive attraction of Tahiti, which afforded them an idyllic lifestyle and sexual opportunity that were otherwise unavailable to them back home in England.

    Further, it was not necessarily a popular mutiny on board the Bounty itself. Of the ship's 46 officers and sailors, 22 had remained steadfastly loyal to Lieutenant William Bligh -- he was not promoted to the rank of captain by the Royal Navy until he returned home to England in 1791, some two years after the mutiny -- and 18 of them joined him in the ship's 23-ft. longboat for the arduous journey to the Dutch East Indies, rather than remain onboard. The four who stayed behind did so because there was no more room in the longboat.

    The ingrained public notion of William Bligh as an overly stern and abusive martinet appears to be a direct consequence of the bestselling 1932 novel "Mutiny on the Bounty" by Charles Nordhoff and James Norman Hall, and the popular 1935 film of the same name, which starred Clark Gable as a dashingly handsome and caring Mr. Christian and Charles Laughton as a morose and sadistic Bligh. The contemporaneous accounts from the late 18th and early 19th centuries tend to support neither respective characterization of those two men. In all likelihood, Lt. Bligh was probably no different from many other senior officers in the Royal Navy of his times.

    Bligh had previously served as Captain James Cook's navigator during the latter's third "Voyage of Discovery" (1776-79), a full decade prior to being appointed to command of the ill-fated Bounty. In fact, his masterful handling of the ship's longboat and crew during their epic 4,000 mile-long voyage to the Dutch colonial seaport of Kupang in the East Indies has often been described as nothing short of heroic; his seafaring skills had saved the lives of 17 of the 18 men who came with him. (One was killed during a violent encounter with natives on the South Pacific island of Tofua, where they had stopped to reprovision.)

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Wow. Amazing input. Thank you. (none / 0) (#202)
    by Lfrieling on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 04:49:15 PM EST
    Most interesting.  If, based upon nothing including the facts, I had to decide between sex and lead poisoning, I'd blame the sex every time.  

    I'm looking forward to reading the book by Bligh, and follow up on the rest.  I think our original thought might be "lead poisoning likely ruled out as a significant factor in the mutiny on the HMS Bounty."  Not as sexy a title or theory <G>  Have great weekends!  Lenny

    Parent

    23 days does sound like rum poisoning defense (none / 0) (#201)
    by Lfrieling on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 04:43:45 PM EST
    After 23 days at sea, I'd vote for rum poisoning if I were defending them.  

    I need to learn more.  Lenny

    Parent

    Wild Hawaiian Cow (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:17:18 PM EST
    Who knew?

    "If they spot you first, they'll definitely come for you," says Orion Enocencio, manager and hunting guide at Ahiu Hawaii, an adventure company on the Big Island in Hawaii. Some of the most dangerous hunting in the entire United States is to be found on a single island in the most isolated island chain in the world. It's not grizzly bears or mountain lions or even bison: it's the wild Hawaiian cow.

    link

    That's how Parker Ranch got established, ... (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:55:15 PM EST
    ... as part of the effort to control the Big Island's exploding wild cattle population. And at 250,000 acres and 30,000 head, Parker Ranch today is arguably one of the largest and oldest working cattle ranches in the United States. Its formal 1847 founding predates the large spreads in Texas, such as King Ranch, by some three decades. But records show that the ranch had actually been operating for nearly two decades prior, when its lands were still considered crown lands. The 1847 date reflects the formal bestowing of land title to the Parker family by King Kamehameha III.

    As far as the danger posed by Big Island wild cattle is concerned, it appears to me that the larger the hoofed animal, the more ill-tempered it can be. When we were in southern Africa four years ago, guides told us that the deadliest animals on that continent are not the lion and leopard, but rather the hippopotamus, the elephant and the African Cape buffalo, which together account for the deaths of about 4,000 people annually. While on safari in Chobe Nat'l Park in Botswana, we saw a mother hippo chase off a Cape buffalo that had ventured a little too close to her calf while they were grazing, and boy, could she boogie!

    Personally, the scariest wild animal encounter I ever had occurred when I was in college, with a full-grown bull moose in the eastern Cascade foothills, northwest of Spokane. How close were we to him? Close enough to smell him, and believe me, he reeked of composting vegetation and was friggin' huge.

    We stumbled upon the moose while on a day hike, and he was none too pleased at the interruption to his own day, and further decided that our presence was terribly annoying. He flashed just enough temper and aggression toward us that we were quickly compelled to backtrack, and then he stalked us from an uncomfortably close distance as we retreated, in order to ensure our departure.

    The fact that there were a half-dozen of us proved not the slightest deterrence to that one solitary moose. Were we in any actual physical danger? Probably not -- but he definitely asserted control of the scene and made his wishes known to this bunch of 19- to 21-year-olds. Discretion is always the better part of valor. Afterward, thoroughly chastened by our encounter, we gave the area where we found him a very wide berth, and we had a "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" moment to share with others over a bong.

    Anybody else have any personal wild animal tales?

    Parent

    Funny... (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 04:19:21 PM EST
    ...not two days ago my friend asked me what I though the most dangerous animal in Africa was.

    You forgot to mention the animal that kills the most people in Africa is a vegetarian.  According to this, hippos kill 3000 a year.

    Parent

    Were you in danger? (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 04:33:25 PM EST
    My nephew in Alaska says moose maul people pretty regularly.

    The others day this turned up on my FB page

    Bambi's revenge

    Parent

    Well, we felt like we were in danger. (none / 0) (#110)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 05:04:16 PM EST
    And that was enough for us. Whether we actually were, I really couldn't affirm definitively, one way or the other. As I said above, probably not, but we thought it best to not stick around and find out otherwise. And the moose inhabiting the Pacific Northwest are considered the smallest subset of the species. The largest are found in Alaska, and the bulls get to be over a ton in wieght.

    Most wild animals by instinct tend to avoid human contact whenever possible. That's why park rangers repeatedly implore visitors to not feed wild animals, lest they come to associate humans with food and forgo their inherent fear of them.

    Unless they are stricken with a disease like rabies which impair brain function, animals are generally neither reckless nor stupid, and they will not actively chance a physical confrontation with another animal in which they could possibly be hurt or even killed.

    Most mammals and birds are quite territorial, however, and they will first attempt to bluff you out of position and into retreat when you encroach upon them. And if they feel physically threatened and cornered, that's another story altogether.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Jeff says they are common in towns (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 05:11:33 PM EST
    I googled

    But in Alaska, where there's at least one moose for every four people, seeing this animal wander the streets during winter is expected [source: Rausch and Gasaway, U.S. Census Bureau].
    You don't have to be an expert tracker to find one of these guys. In fact, moose may be the ones that seek you out during the winter.



    Parent
    Or if they are in Rut.. (none / 0) (#165)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:42:39 AM EST
    ...when males tend to be more aggressive to show their dominance and generally act like horny drunken idiots.

    This includes most ruminants like elk, moose, and bighorn sheep.  Anything in with horns during mating season can be very dangerous.

    Parent

    Too true, as ... (none / 0) (#184)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 02:12:34 PM EST
    I once suggested to a friend (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by scribe on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 10:26:39 AM EST
    who's an avid bowhunter that, if he wanted something really challenging and dangerous he would hunt wild cows such as described above.  He passed.

    As far as I'm concerned, my estimate of the  dangerousness level for North American animals goes (from most to least) something like this:

    1.  springtime hungry grizzly bears or bears with cubs - just plain dangerous
    2.  bison - ornery, big, and dangerous
    3.  wild cows - similar
    4.  ordinary grizzly bears
    5.  rutting moose or elk
    6.  black bears - springtime hungry or with cubs
    7.  feral hogs - they'll avoid you until they won't
    8.  non-rutting moose or elk
    9.  ordinary black bears
    10. wolves and cougars
    11. the rest of them

    I once had a client who had a black bear in his kitchen, trying to break into his fridge.  He was quite fortunate that when he punched the bear in the nose, startling it, it left a trail of damage as it went quickly out through the door, rather than out through him.  A bear in the kitchen is comparable to an having an NFL linebacker there, but one without the language skills and definitely without the impulse control.  Some states kept statistics on bear incidents including categories like "home invasion" (i.e., inside the house, as opposed to on the deck or porch) and "vehicle invasion" (inside your car) in addition to the more prosaic "human attack".

    I've encountered most of those animals (even the griz in spring), sometimes from the safety of a car (bison and elk) but the ones that spook me most are moose.  They just don't care.  And their hooves leave prints the size of dinner plates - on the ground or on you.

    Parent

    Our neighbor across the street (none / 0) (#187)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 02:36:55 PM EST
    Had a "springtime hungry" black bear on her back porch early last spring, upending and rooting through their recycle bin.  There wasn't any food in it, but there must have been enough residual odor to attract the bear.  She was pretty freaked out.  Her husband told her to keep the back door closed and locked.
    Yeh, you really, really don't want a bear, any bear, in your kitchen.

    Parent
    Imagine having one in your car. (none / 0) (#195)
    by scribe on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 03:35:20 PM EST
    Going after the smell of McNuggets.

    Or one learning that the music and bell from the ice cream truck means ice cream that the kids will drop and leave for you when they see you coming and run.

    It has happened.

    Parent

    Yes, that does not (none / 0) (#198)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 04:30:09 PM EST
    surprise me at all.
    When food is scarce, bears are going to go after anything that smells like food, especially easy food.
    And, while Grizzlies have a particularly nasty reputation, even black bears can be dangerous, and can kill you, although they are smaller than Grizzlies.
    But bear deaths are very rare, really, no matter the type.
    The most important thing is, secure your food, and for pity's sake, do not get between a mother bear and her cub.

    Parent
    # 1 Dangerous Animal... (none / 0) (#194)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 03:32:10 PM EST
    has to be the homo sapien...no contest really.

    Parent
    Well, yes (none / 0) (#199)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 04:32:22 PM EST
    You are exactly right, kdog.  Unfortunately.
    At least animals aren't armed with guns, missiles, bombs, nukes, drones, etcetera, etcetera, and so forth.

    Parent
    We had a cow like that (none / 0) (#89)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:02:33 PM EST
    once.  Meanest d@mned cow I ever met.  Meaner than some bulls can be, even.  A cross-bred Angus and Hereford.
    I always carried a cattle cane or cattle prod when I had to go out to where the cattle were pastured.  Fortunately, she didn't have horns.
    We sold her at auction after she dropped and raised her calf.  After which she no doubt wound up in cans of Hormel chili and Dinty Moore Beef Stew.

    Parent
    BTW during the buffalo roundups (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:29:16 PM EST
    in the Dakotas the cowboys use whips to keep those mean creatures moving in the right direction.  Used to have a girlfriend in Deadwood, SD that carried a whip when we went riding.  Never did see a buffalo so I wasn't totally sure about her intentions.  

    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#90)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:06:21 PM EST
    During my first encounter with a cow (high school years) I ran once it started walking towards me... my girlfriend fell on the ground laughing...

    I always felt silly about that, now not so much.

    Also, interesting tidbit from the article.. the Ukulele came to Hawaii via Mexican cowboys!

    Parent

    They're not all (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:32:15 PM EST
    like the nice dairy cows you usually think of, squeaky.
    Especially if they're basically free-range beef cattle, with not a whole lot of direct human interaction.  Which was what ours were.
    They're not all like the dairy cows that most people think of.  Dairy cows are brought in twice a day to be milked and have a lot of human interaction.  A mean or intractable dairy cow is going to be sent off to market PDQ if she can't be managed.
    Most of our cattle were pretty placid, it's true.  Kind of stupid, but placid.  But once in awhile you get one with a mean streak.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 05:15:23 PM EST
    My brother n laws beef cows can be very ill tempered.  They hardly ever interact with people.

    Fortunately they don't have horns.

    Bulls forget it.

    Parent

    My grandfather (none / 0) (#122)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 06:40:24 PM EST
    had beef cows and they were ornery. One time he was loading them up to go to the mean packing plant and one of them kicked the heck out of him and he had to go to the emergency room. He also had problems with them escaping. When we were young we used to play in the barn with them and yes, they came after us a few times but we were able to escape.

    Parent
    They also have wild pigs on Maui (none / 0) (#93)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:22:17 PM EST
    and several of my friends up country in Kula have big problems keeping them out of their gardens.  However those same friends have large dogs.

    Parent
    St. Marks NWR (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by ragebot on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 05:05:25 PM EST
    has hunting restrictions on deer and ducks, but unlimited no permit required hunting of wild hogs.  They do massive damage to not only vegetation but root out the top soil and facilitate erosion.

    I really dislike wild hogs.

    Parent

    Wild pigs are found on all the main islands. (none / 0) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 04:14:28 PM EST
    They live here in nearby Kuliouou State Forest Reserve, which comprises the entire back of our valley. There's a wild sow that inhabits the forest across the stream from us, and we'll see her every once in a while with her offspring whenever they venture into the open. But more often than not, they prefer to hang out in the brush and under cover.

    Parent
    Utah elementary teacher accidentally ... (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 09:25:48 PM EST
    Ow, right where it hurts! (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by desertswine on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 12:42:54 AM EST
    Greeeat..... (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 03:20:30 AM EST
    and we all get to share public restrooms with these idiots.

    I feel safer already.

    Parent

    Good Gravy (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:57:05 AM EST
    These are the people who are going to save the school from maniacs, yet:
    Teachers are not required to disclose that they are carrying a weapon, and administrators are prohibited from asking if they carry or barring them from bringing their weapons.

    Did it not occur to lawmakers that it might be nice to know who has a gun in school should something go down.  That if someone is going to carry a gun to school, that they might be expected/required to use it when needed.  Nope, they can be tough guys packing heat and run with the kids when in danger  and never tell a soul until it goes off in the bathroom, accidentally.

    It also means this teacher doesn't have to tell anyone if she is still taking a gun to school when she returns, even though she clearly posses a danger.

    Parent

    Baaaaa...I'm a sheeple (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 04:43:28 AM EST
    Christmas in September iPhone 6 Pre-order complete!

    Oops (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by jbindc on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 07:10:42 AM EST
    Dumb... (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 10:03:42 AM EST
    Goodell is gone, the police report clearly states he struck  her and she went unconscious.  Doesn't matter what Rice told him or if saw the video, he knew Rice knocked her out.

    Why a man making $44M a year would lie about things that are so easily disprovable is beyond me, but leads me to believe this wasn't his first rodeo.

    I hope to god these rumors are right wing fantasy.

    One of the very few things that will have me hanging up my Nitschke jersey.

    Parent

    ... in the affirmative for NFL owners to remove Roger Goodell as league commissioner, which is 24 out of 32, so I don't believe that he's going anywhere any time soon. Which is too bad, because I think you're right -- the man should be sent packing.

    As much as I've criticized Condoleezza Rice for past performance as National Security Advisor and Secretary of State, I actually believe that she'd be a good selection as NFL commissioner. There's little doubt that she does know and love the game, and she would bring a woman's perspective to the post, which the league dearly needs at this point.

    At the very least, Ms. Rice couldn't possibly be any worse than the odious and smarmy Mr. Goodell. And as an added benefit, her appointment as NFL commissioner would probably preclude her from participation in any future public discussions regarding U.S. foreign policy, a realm where her credibility has been seriously eroded to the level of the tragically farcical.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    So (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 08:09:46 AM EST
    Been waiting for a day when it's not in the high 90s to cut the grass.  A nice cool day.  Be careful what you wish for.

    Next couple of days highs mid 60s lows mid 40s.  Weird freaking summer.

    Guess I'll be cutting the grass wearing a jacket.

    Just saw a video (none / 0) (#153)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 08:26:20 AM EST
    from Casper, WY where it was snowing, they're going to 55 today with 37 the expected low but they have a frost warning anywhere.

    You remind me of the people who live in Eureka, CA, they think they have a heat wave when it gets above 80 degrees in the summer.

    Parent

    When it's 98 here (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 08:57:08 AM EST
    With 90% humidity trust me.  It's a heat wave.  I lived in ScCal for 14 years.  I will cheerfully take 115 in the desert.

    Parent
    Suppose to hit (none / 0) (#160)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:15:11 AM EST
    102 here today, and we're in Central California, about an hours drive north of Bakersfield.  Humidity goes down to about 17% during the day, unless there's some cloud cover to increase it.

    Parent
    GOP reaching out to women! (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 08:43:31 AM EST
    Supporting over the counter birth control pill sales. Heard Kellianne Conway, one of my favorite dim GOP spokeswomen, on NPR this morning telling all about how this will show that the 'war on women' is a myth, etc. and this will really neutralize all of the Dem talking points.

    As usual, they take us for idiots. I doubt many women care if they can buy the pill without a prescription. (The ones that do care because their misguided parents won't let them get a prescription, and you can be darn sure the GOP will not allow this)

    What women care more about is that their health insurance is allowed to cover the coat, which it won't if it is an OTC drug.

    So as usual, the GOP pretends to be on your side when they are really going to make things worse. Women are pretty good at figuring that out.

    Well (none / 0) (#191)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 03:21:48 PM EST
    actually I think the over the counter is a good idea. I've been saying the same thing for years. That being said it is a big money maker for pharmacies so I'm not sure they'd want it to go over the counter and secondly you and I both know they aren't going to do it. The minute someone proposes it the evangelicals are going to start screaming about 12 year olds being able to get birth control and they'll cave. Perfect example see Paul, Rand re foreign policy.

    Parent
    The Ravens Game (5.00 / 3) (#176)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 11:04:54 AM EST
    Not really a fan of any AFC, so the I was doing other things for the pre-game, but I cannot get this out of my head.  

    James Brown gave a pretty passionate speech about domestic violence that ended with this:

    Consider this: According to domestic violence experts, more than three women per day lose their lives at the hands of their partners. That means that since the night February 15th in Atlantic City [when the elevator incident occurred] more than 600 women have died.

    That is just so heart wrenching.

    Here is the transcript and video.

    I am glad CBS canceled the comedy bit and Rihanna performance to tackle this subject in the pre-game show.

    Rihanna would have been an interesting (none / 0) (#178)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 11:20:28 AM EST
    choice.

    Parent
    She Was... (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 12:59:22 PM EST
    ...considering Rice was suspended in July initially for two games, which would have included last night's game.

    Parent
    indeed (none / 0) (#181)
    by sj on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 11:54:15 AM EST
    George Zimmerman in the news...again. (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 03:26:53 PM EST
    It's 61 degrees (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 05:13:55 PM EST
    At 5pm.  The Huskies are SO happy.  I can't get them to come inside.  They must feel like they have been in prison.

    Want to be depressed? (3.50 / 2) (#112)
    by Slado on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 05:07:53 PM EST
    Watch the last 4 presidents tell the American people why we're going to start bombing Iraq.

    Oh Iraq, I just can't quit you.

    Remind me why (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 05:17:51 PM EST
    They don't like us again?

    Parent
    Because of our freedom, silly! (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:51:09 PM EST
    Word to your moms... (none / 0) (#157)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:02:40 AM EST
    we came to drop bombs
    we drop more bombs
    than the bible got psalms.

    It is the longest air war in history...trying to google for a grand total of bombs dropped since 1991 but no luck , probably too many too count.  Wonder if it's more than Laos at this point.


    Parent

    A note for Mordiggian 88 et al... (2.00 / 1) (#97)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:46:50 PM EST
    As you well know I have never said there was a conspiracy. Just a bunch of people who have common interests influencing each other. Take Dr Jones for example.

    This is from an Australian at BMRC (not Neville Nicholls). It began from the attached
    article. What an idiot. The scientific community would come down on me in no uncertain terms if I said the world had cooled from 1998. OK it has but it is only 7 years of data and it isn't statistically significant.

    Link

    And I have never said that the climate isn't changing.

    The question is what is causing it.

    And whatever that is it has stopped for the past 15 years or so.


    Subsurface ocean warming explains why global average air temperatures have flatlined since 1999, despite greenhouse gases trapping more solar heat at the Earth's surface.

    (The email was dated 7/2005)

    snip

    The results show that a slow-moving current in the Atlantic, which carries heat between the two poles, sped up earlier this century to draw heat down almost a mile (1,500 meters).

    University of Washington


    Here is hoping (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by sj on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 04:00:03 PM EST
    nobody feeds it.

    Parent
    The latest science is that (none / 0) (#130)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:33:19 PM EST
    AGW has slowed down since 2001, but hasn't stopped:

    JRC scientists analysed surface temperature data records -- which began in 1850 -- to separate natural variations from secular (i.e., long-term) trends. They identified three hiatus periods (1878-1907, 1945-1969 and 2001 to date), during which global warming slowed down. These hiatus periods coincide with natural cooling phases -- the multidecadal variability (MDV), most likely caused by natural oceanic oscillations. The scientists therefore conclude that the MDV is the main cause of these hiatus periods during which global warming decelerated.

    However, they found that the current hiatus period is, for the first time, particularly strongly influenced by changes in the secular trend, which shows a strong acceleration from 1992-2001 and a deceleration from 2002 to 2013.Such rapid and strong fluctuations in the secular warming rate are unprecedented.

    This unique fluctuation in the recent secular warming rate could have several causes, such as recent changes in the tropical Pacific Ocean, the accelerated melting of Arctic ice, changes in the deep ocean heat storage or the increasing content of aerosols in the stratosphere. The authors recommend further scientific investigation of the causes and consequences of this change, in order to address whether the global climate sensitivity has recently changed. Such research is crucial to understanding current climate conditions and creating plausible scenarios of future climate evolution.

    Again, who are we to believe, you or those lying glaciers?

    Parent

    I would say that the (none / 0) (#136)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:53:44 PM EST
    glacier study is what???

    No information. Just claims.

    For the study, which was published Thursday in the journal Science, climate scientists in Austria used climate models and an international inventory of glacial measurements to determine how much of what we're seeing can be attributed to the burning of fossil fuels, and how much is just natural variation. What they found is that since the mid-19th century, humans have been responsible for about 25 percent of the observed melt. But when you look at what's happened just during the period from 1991 to 2010, that number jumps up to 69 percent.

    And we've seen that for years and years and years and years.

    Do you have any actual proof????

    Parent

    If your eyes can't see the differences (none / 0) (#146)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 07:03:05 AM EST
    Between the glaciers as they were and as they are now, then there's almost no point in engaging with you as your mind is made up in this subject.

    Your understanding of how science works is taken from Fox Noise and other climate denial sources, so naturally you don't understand how science works, that for the paper in question it's not just a claim, it's a study.

    Here's linkto the study in question.  You can read it and decide for yourself if it is just a "claim" or not, if the vocabulary and language are within you ability to understand such things.

    Or, to put it in terms that you can understand:

    LOL!

    Parent

    Your link doesn't work to (none / 0) (#179)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 11:23:49 AM EST
    get you to the study. It opens up Science magazine's home page and when you try and go farther you need a sub. But nice try.

    Here is a more likely explanation of glaciers melting.

    MIAMI -- A University of Miami (UM) Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science-led study shows a link between large dust storms on Iceland and glacial melting.

    The dust is both accelerating glacial melting and contributing important nutrients to the surrounding North Atlantic Ocean. The results provide new insights on the role of dust in climate change and high-latitude ocean ecosystems.

    Link

    The above is not new. A few years back it was determined that the snows on Kilimanjaro were melting because of dust coverage.

    Plus, back when the crisis of the moment was global cooling one of the suggested solutions was putting coal dust on the advancing glaciers....

    And we also have this:

    The UN's climate science body has admitted that a claim made in its 2007 report - that Himalayan glaciers could melt away by 2035 - was unfounded.

    Link

    But what you believe is that man is causing it by using all those planes, trains and automobiles.

    Yet you ignore the Medieval Warming period in which wine grapes grew in northern England and the Vikings settled....... GREENland.

    I guess Eric the Red drove there.

    Parent

    No, I'm not ignoring anything (none / 0) (#180)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 11:44:07 AM EST
    but it would behoove you to find the paper that the ScienceDaily article referenced, instead of blathering on about the MWP as thought the climatologists had never heard of heard of it before.

    Let's see how the Arctic ice sheet is these days, shall we?

    Despite the near-average rate of decline in ice extent through the month, August 2014 ended up with the 7th lowest extent in the satellite record. It is 1.51 million square kilometers (583,000 square miles) above the record low for August 2012 and is also higher than August of 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2013. The monthly linear rate of decline for August over the satellite record is now 10.3 percent per decade.



    Parent
    My World (1.50 / 2) (#20)
    by whitecap333 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 09:51:38 AM EST
    Are you completely indifferent to the trend of public opinion?  That's my primary interest in this situation.  I assume you regard the Daily Mail as a respectable publication, since you have now linked it it twice for reports on these new witnesses.  Reader comment, on the article you linked to Saturday, is a good 3 to 1 against you.  It's about the same on CNN and ABC.  The political agenda the left is proposing, to atone for "institutional racism," is going to encounter massive and hostile opposition.  It frankly looks like political self-immolation to me.

    This comment makes no sense (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:13:12 AM EST
    And as marshmallow white guy who has blood relatives who are African-American, AND who has been held at gunpoint by a cop with his head up his ace (as a child, no less), there isn't the slightest bit of rhetorical self-ability in your comment. Most Americans still think it's factually possible for the federal government to go financially bankrupt. People's inexcusable misconceptions, usually based on a combination of corporate media incompetence and intellectual laziness, are no excuse for being able to evaluate things with your own free American mind. If you have done so and think that kid deserved to be aerated with bullets, fine, you are entitled to that opinion, but I have no respect for it, since it is not, in any way, shape, or form, informed by either the facts at hand or simple logic.

    Peace out, my fellow free American.

    Parent

    Your primary interest is in public opinion? (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:30:35 AM EST
    Which part - analyzing it or driving it?  Because you've demonstrated that you are one of those people who manages to package a lot of contorted logic within a framework of fact in order to encourage people to come to the conclusion you want them to reach.  For an example of how this works, look no further than the extreme manipulation we were subjected to in advance of the Iraq war, and the current manipulation that is taking place with the president's latest plan to start bombing Syria.

    But, okay - let's say you really do put that much stock in public opinion - even though I think it's about the laziest and most dangerous way of deciding what one thinks - suppose we took a poll here and the result was that you should hit the road: would you go?

    Or would you suddenly find all the reasons why public opinion should not be accorded that much power?

    Stay, go - whatever.  Just understand that most of us have figured out that you're just jim with more education, which you think hides your bigotry.

    News flash: it doesn't.

    Parent

    And What Public ? (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:58:35 AM EST
    Certainly not the Ferguson public, maybe the Fox News public opinion.  But I do like the insistence that he's posting for our benefit, a charitable education if you will.

    I do find it rather humorous, how certain witnesses statements are taken verbatim and others dismissed outright, and how remarkably that aligns with one side.  It's like there is an agenda, but since he's doing charity, that can't possibly be...
    -----------------------------------

    Found this over at the Guardian.  It's almost impossible to believe:

    Last year, Ferguson's municipal court issued 24,532 warrants, mostly for minor traffic offences, an average of about three per household in a city of just 21,000 residents, according to a study by Arch City Defenders, a non-profit that provides legal representation to poor and homeless people. The court heard 12,018 cases, or 1.5 cases per household, issuing an estimated $275 fine for each guilty verdict.
    ...
    Figures published in 2013 by Missouri's attorney general showed that seven black drivers were stopped by police in the city for every white driver.
    LINK

    Three warrants per home in Ferguson, more warrants than residents, that is a city in under siege by the police.

    Parent

    Three words... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:08:10 AM EST
    state sponsored terrorism.

    Parent
    "offense" is spelled "offence" in most English speaking countries that are not the US...

    Parent
    My Spell Check Caught it... (none / 0) (#54)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:13:20 PM EST
    ...but I figured as much.  I does have me wondering how a word just changes spelling in another country over time.  Did one day people just decided they like the 's' better and the fad just spread.

    What is really interesting is I read that yesterday after going through my list of US news sites.  Pretty sad that the Guardian is the only place with the numbers, other sites mentioned the city council meetings, but not the details, which I think are very alarming.

    Parent

    Ask and you shall receive (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:43:55 PM EST
    Why American and British English spell words differently

    The American spelling gained steam through the 19th century, after being promoted in Noah Webster's 1831 dictionary and all later editions, but didn't become the more common form in the U.S. until the early 20th century. The spelling was not invented in the U.S., however. Webster and his contemporaries, in forging what they viewed as a more logical and more American variety of the language, actually just revived an old spelling that had been appearing to varying degrees since the 14th century, long before the United States existed. The Oxford English Dictionary cites examples of offense from as long ago as 1395--and their earliest instances of offence are from just a decade earlier--though it is true that the modern British spelling was settled by the 17th century and that offense was no more than a rare variant by the time the Americans adopted it.


    Parent
    on the non-US Guardian site is because it was, literally, yesterday's news.

    The US-based WaPo, for example, had the info on 9/5.

    Parent

    Not Exactly Yesterday's News... (none / 0) (#80)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:17:52 PM EST
    ...considering the city council meet yesterday for the soul purpose of revising their ticketing practices.  

    Regardless, more warrants issued that citizens, not tickets, warrants, should be front page stuff.  That is absurd and a true testament of the Ferguson police and judicial system.
    Here is a graph of warrants issued in Missouri, per 1000.

    Ferguson issued more than 1,500 per 1,000 people in 2013. Numbers include people being served more than one warrant in a year or nonresidents being served for a violation within the city.

    The next closest is not even half, the average is looks to be 200-300 hundred.  St Louis County has a serious problem as the top 4 cities are all in their jurisdiction.

    Brendan Roediger, an assistant professor at Saint Louis University School of Law and supervisor of the school's Civil Litigation Clinic, said that resentment toward the police in Ferguson "is primarily formed around these interactions and not around investigations of serious crimes."


    Parent
    Your comment, if I read it correctly, (none / 0) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:26:28 PM EST
    compared US news negatively to foreign (UK) news, in that on that particular day the UK news gave us this great info, while the US news did not.

    My comment pointed out that the US news had already given us all that same info days earlier.

    Parent

    The two witnesses (none / 0) (#1)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 07:13:18 AM EST
    From the Daily Mail:

    A video has surfaced showing two witnesses' incredulous reactions to the shooting of unarmed teenager Michael Brown by a Ferguson, Missouri police officer.

    In the video, one of the contractors standing near the scene throws his own hands up in the air and shouts 'he had his f**** hands in the air'

    Brown then put his hands up and 'the officer was chasing him', he said.

    He saw Wilson fire a shot at Brown while his back was turned.

    Yes, (1.50 / 2) (#14)
    by whitecap333 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 09:05:14 AM EST
    these witnesses strongly disapprove of Wilson's actions.  But the video was taken immediately after the shooting, was it not?  Before they were aware Brown had just assaulted Wilson.

    The straw man you are trying to set up here isn't going to hold up.  You have somehow persuaded yourself that, if Brown's hands were raised, and he didn't "rush" at Wilson, Wilson must be deemed guilty as charged.  You would further have it that it is impermissible to draw inferences about what Wilson will say, when the time comes.  This is frivolous. In an interview by the Post-Dispatch, previously discussed at some length, the construction worker plainly states that, from a distance of 10 feet, Brown, with raised hands, advanced towards Wilson. It is plainly stated that Wilson began to fire only after this advance, as he retreated.  Brown then lowered his hands, and continued towards Wilson another 25 feet, before the last two bullets felled him.  You invite us to suppose that Brown was quite harmless, and was not instructed to halt.  "But the witnesses heard no such instruction!"  So what?  They told the Dispatch they were 50 feet away.  That CNN video reveals they were much more than 50 feet away.  Wilson will testify he feared for his safety, and told Brown to halt.  Was his fear reasonable?  That kind of turns on the assault at the squad car, doesn't it?  And who, having seen that damning video, will doubt that Brown did assault the officer, to avoid arrest, and was indeed dangerous, raised hands or no?    

       

    Parent

    To Whitewash333 (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 10:17:19 AM EST
    Before they were aware Brown had just assaulted Wilson.

    What does what they did not see and no one else did either and never happened have to do with what they witnessed???


      You have somehow persuaded yourself that, if Brown's hands were raised, and he didn't "rush" at Wilson, Wilson must be deemed guilty as charged.

    So now you along with all the other future crow eaters of America are conceding that he had his hands up -- and it has taken 4 weeks for that concession.

    You would further have it that it is impermissible to draw inferences about what Wilson will say, when the time comes.

    No -- we fully expect him to pull an Oscar Pistorius and seek an academy award for his performance.

    It is plainly stated that Wilson began to fire only after this advance, as he retreated.

    Maybe you missed this from the DM article:

    "Brown then put his hands up and 'the officer was chasing him', he said. He saw Wilson fire a shot at Brown while his back was turned."

    Who was "chasing" who and firing shots at who  "while his back was turned"???

    If he had no qualms about shooting him with his back turned while running away, then why do you think he would have any qualms about shooting him facing him???

    Parent

    It couldn't (1.50 / 2) (#35)
    by whitecap333 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:15:12 AM EST
    be clearer that Wilson fired the last 4 shots, after pausing 3 seconds, only after Brown began advancing on him.

    And why would Wilson have "qualms" about firing on Brown, as he tried to escape?  I know you guys would have it that Brown reached through the widow of the squad car only to straighten officer Wilson's tie, but he is going to say he was assaulted.  Must have been a serious "scuffle" indeed, with a shot being fired inside the car.  This made Brown a violent felon, within the ambit of Mo. Revised Statutes 563.046. 3 (2) (a), governing "Law enforcement officer's use of force in making an arrest."  Wilson's response to Brown's attempted escape was lawful.  

    I make no apology for being a conservative.  Accusations of "racism" do not disturb my sleep, because I know I now outnumber you.  Numbers have consequences.  

    Parent

    Your contentions are laughable. (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:54:00 AM EST
    Reconcile any of that rubbish with the photo of Brown's body lying over one hundred feet from Wilson's SUV.

    Parent
    to Whitewash333 (none / 0) (#41)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:33:23 AM EST
    It couldn't be clearer that Wilson fired the last 4 shots, after pausing 3 seconds, only after Brown began advancing on him.

    So then I guess you are dismissing this from one witness Michael Brady who has given this statement to LE:

    "Brady then ran outside with his camera phone to record the event. By the time he got outside, Brown had turned around and was facing Wilson.

    Brown was "balled up" with his arms under his stomach and he was "halfway down" to the ground.

    "As he was falling, Brown took one or two steps toward Wilson because he was presumably hit and was stumbling forward.

    "Wilson then shot him three or four times.

    "Brady said that the pictures he took of Brown with his arms tucked in under his body is the position he was in as he was shot three or four more times by Wilson before hitting the ground."

    Parent

    Brady (none / 0) (#48)
    by whitecap333 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:53:00 AM EST
    "by the time he got outside" says it all, despite Anderson's attempts to "assist" him recall what he had seen.

    Parent
    Whitewash (none / 0) (#63)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 12:41:21 PM EST
    "by the time he got outside" says it all

    You mean that's all the farther you read.



    Parent

    This made Brown a violent felon (none / 0) (#46)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:49:08 AM EST
    And what would "this" be????

    Would "this" be the mythical struggle in the front seat that no one witnessed and Wilson has refused to document under the penalty of perjury in an incident report???

    One question that Wilson will have to answer if he goes before the GJ is why he pulled his weapon out and used it to confront a pair of jaywalkers???

    And that's just the first question.

    That's why he is expected to plead the 5th throughout and let the future crow-eaters of America prefabricate for him.

    Parent

    "mythical struggle in the front seat" (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:58:35 AM EST
    mythical struggle in the front seat that no one witnessed
    Yer kidding, right?

    This "tussle" was witnessed, at the very least, by Dorian Johnson, Michael Brady, Piaget Crenshaw, & Tiffany Mitchell.

    Parent

    The tussle (none / 0) (#66)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 01:17:07 PM EST
    This "tussle" was witnessed, at the very least, by Dorian Johnson, Michael Brady, Piaget Crenshaw, & Tiffany Mitchell

    A tussle but not a struggle or assault -- right???

    And it didn't take place IN the front seat of the SUV as the future croweaters of America are alleging -- right???

    It took place through the SUV window -- right ???

    Wilson was pulling him toward the window as Brown was pulling himself away.

    Wilson was trying to hold onto Brown as Brown was trying to loosen his grip to get away from him -- right??? And when he did he ran away.

    I'm trying to figure out if an officer grabbing you around the neck, arm, shirt, anywhere without him telling you that you are under arrest and what for is considered an assault or not????

    Parent

    from this.

    Parent
    I think (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:45:42 PM EST
    they both do, sarc.    ;-)

    Parent
    True enough. (none / 0) (#96)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:45:19 PM EST
    This (none / 0) (#51)
    by whitecap333 on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:58:06 AM EST
    is like shooting birds on the ground--just no fun in it.  I suspect these repetitious exchanges are putting our host's teeth on edge, so I'll be off--for now.

    Parent
    Whitecap333 (none / 0) (#72)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 01:47:24 PM EST
    I make no apology for being a conservative.

    You also make no case for it.

    The conservatives I know believe in the Bill of Rights that guarantee any accused jaywalker, shoplifter, window tussler, or runaway the right to a fair trial, the right to confront his accuser in a court of law, ... and the right not to be shot down like a dog in the street before he can get there.

    Accusations of "racism" do not disturb my sleep

    That must be your conscience speaking to you.

    because I know I now outnumber you.

    Are you "legion"??? Are you suffering from MPD???

    Numbers have consequences.

    And the numbers continue to haunt the future crow-eaters of America:

    75 seconds from start to finish. Chased 120 feet down the road with gun ablazing and no regard for people in the neighborhood.

    3 shots fired with his back turned. 6 shots fired while his hands were up. 4 shots fired as he was falling to the ground.

    Atleast 8 witnesses at this point and none of their statements are good for Wilson.  

    Atleast 2 video recordings showing Wilson strutting up and down the crime scene clearly not hurt in any way.

    1 audio recording of the 10 final shots for which the police had better have found atleast 10 shell  casings in that location.

    And now 12 people to decide if Wilson will get the very thing he denied to the guy he lost his arm-wrestling competition to -- a trial.

    Yes -- numbers do have consequences.    


    Parent

    New favorite website (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 07:46:04 AM EST
    LiterallyUnbelievable

    A collection of hilarious FB posts from morons who think ONION news is real.  
    A huge portion is about Obama.  I especially love the reaction to the story that he spends his nights looking behind paintings in the WH for a safe.

    He's looking for (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 07:56:34 AM EST
    You know (5.00 / 7) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:04:18 AM EST
    We often disagree (and the sky is sometimes blue) but just want to say that giving your delightful comment about loving someone with different views a troll rating for no reason but unrelated spite was a sh!tty thing to do.

    Parent
    I admit I have been (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 09:00:00 AM EST
    Watching the rebroadcast of 9/11.  I know I know.  

    The thing is it still fascinates me.  Partly because the actual day 13 years ago a strange thing happened.  Forgive me if this is the 13th time you have heard this.

    We all know what a tv baby I am.  I wake up, I let the dogs out and I turn on the tv.   That day I was in the middle of renovating a house in LA.  I had taken an equity loan and time off work to do it.   That day was yard work day and for whatever reason, for probably the first - and last - time in my life I just took my coffee and went out to work in th yard without hearing any news.  Some time after lunch one of the back yard neighbors saw me stuck her head over the fence and said something like "can you believe it?"

    So I saw it all in replays.  

    I have (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 09:27:46 AM EST
    not watched anything regarding 9/11 since right after it happened. I think I saw the towers fall enough times back then. I had a five week old baby at home. He's now 13. His whole life almost has been 9/11 a noun and a verb.

    Parent
    More interesting to me (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 09:31:10 AM EST
    Is the complete fog of war that set in that morning.   So much speculation misinformation and disinformation.

    Parent
    That's truee (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:51:17 AM EST
    I'm guessing they bypassing that part these days?


    Parent
    Actually (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Slado on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:08:06 PM EST
    MSNBC replayed the complete Today Show Broadcast in real time as it was happening.

    I watched the first hour or so before heading to work.

    Partly because I've never actually seen it.  My little 9/11 story is that I was in Paris on the faithful day with my newly minted bride after our wedding on 9/8.

    We were standing on top of the Arch de Triumph when a nice German guy came up to me and asked if I'd hear about the WTC.  I said no and he said ..."It's gone".   Alarmed the wife and I headed back to the hotel and watched CNN.

    After eventually getting through to our parents back home we were informed we might not be able to come back for a while and to enjoy our honeymoon.   We did so and then came back on 9/21.

    In a way I've always been glad that I was not in the US and forced to live the horror on an hour by hour basis for days on end as I can only imagine most here did but in a weird way I've always felt a bit of a disconnect from most people because I wasn't here and I didn't experience it.

    Anyway the MSNBC broadcast was fascinating today as it really showed what a shock it all was and how people really couldn't wrap their minds around what was happening.

    Lots of silly speculation, bad facts, misinformation but they eventually got it right and watching it reminded me that it was a terrible day we should all never forget.

    Parent

    A friend of mine (none / 0) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 06:49:30 PM EST
    had a son or daughter I don't remember which that was stuck in Hawaii because of the same thing--getting a plane back home.

    I did not even have the TV on. A friend of mine called who had been called by another friend and told to turn on the TV. She was telling me it was a commercial airliner. I said NO! it's probably one of those Cessnas that crash into things all the time or get off course or whatever. Ended up she was right.

    Parent

    Kill Your Darlings (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 11:43:22 AM EST
    Watched this last night.  It had been living on e DVR waiting for a rainstorm.  Very interesting.  Not the greatest movie ever but I really enjoyed it.  Allen Ginsberg, Willism Burroughs, Jack Kerouac.  Wow.  What a clique.

    The actors were all very good.  It only took a few minutes for Harry Potter to disappear into Ginsgerg.  Glasses and all.

    I liked "Kill your Darlings," too. (none / 0) (#74)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:04:10 PM EST
    Certainly, Daniel Radcliffe's performance as Ginsberg was remarkable, and probably even Oscar nomination-worthy. The supporting cast was all first-rate, as was the screenplay

    But I also found the film's underlying theme of sexual repression, exploitation and predation in the 1940s, as well as the fate of the emotionally unstable Lucien Carr (a role played beautifully by Dane DeHaan), to be terribly sad and even somewhat depressing.

    So, while I would highly recommend "Kill Your Darlings" to others, I must also do so cautiously for the reason stated above, because I very much doubt that I would watch it again myself.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:56:30 PM EST
    Maybe "enjoyed" was not the right word.

    Parent
    Palins in Alaska Brawl (none / 0) (#85)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 02:34:35 PM EST
    Confirmed by Anchorage Police (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:37:29 PM EST
    ... according to Wonkette.  Wonder if this will get much attention.

    You would think someone would've whipped out a cell phone ...

    Parent

    Maybe they're waiting for the highest bidder... (none / 0) (#133)
    by Angel on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 08:51:14 PM EST
    Palin Video (none / 0) (#155)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 08:46:04 AM EST
    They laughed about it on ABC this morning saying that somebody had to have some video on the fight and if it's out there they will find it.

    Everyone is anxious to see Bristol's roundhouse punch.

    And if it proves to be all it's cracked up to be, she might be picked up by the Rams.

    Atleast she to hit somebody last weekend.

    Parent

    Fear not y'all.... (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:08:10 AM EST
    I'm sure TMZ is working on scoring the straight dope video, so they can cut it and give us a fix of gutter junk.  

    Just hold that jones together baby...

     

    Parent

    The Alaska Dispatch News, which was ... (none / 0) (#145)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 06:59:46 AM EST
    ... formerly known as the Anchorage Daily News until a few months ago, confirms the Palin family's presence at the party, which was ostensibly to celebrate Todd Palin's birthday in part.

    Parent
    That's hilarious! (none / 0) (#161)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 09:15:40 AM EST
    It was a dogpile, just like a football game :)

    And Sarah was outed for fibbing about her whereabouts on Facebook.  Very funny stuff

    Parent

    Pretty sure stuff like this... (none / 0) (#171)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 10:20:02 AM EST
    ...is pure gold to the idiots that worship her.  Momma bear and lipstick wearing pitbull actions.

    Not grown folks getting into drunken brawls, that's lame stream media twisting reality.

    Parent

    That's what makes the Facebook (none / 0) (#174)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 10:42:06 AM EST
    kerfluffle so funny, she originally started it so her ardent followers could get her pronouncements direct and unfiltered by the LameStream media.

    Maybe she'll be in an upcoming episode of Cops.

    Parent

    John McCain must be so proud right now. (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 06:50:12 AM EST
    :-D

    Parent
    Amazing what happens (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by scribe on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 08:16:38 AM EST
    when you lose the Secret Service protection.  And you have to remind (screech) people who you are.

    Actually, it's "were", Sarah.

    FWIW, back when Sarah was someone I got called out by the Manners Police for calling the Palins going-on white trash.  I am vindicated.  I knew it when I saw it and still know it when I see it.

    And while Bristol Palin can't dance, apparently she throws a nice hook.  Who'da thunk it.

    Parent

    Well, you know something (none / 0) (#152)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 08:22:47 AM EST
    she and her daughter just had a mild disagreement, like what happens every day in America when families get together and decide to work things out like real Americans do who aren't pantywaists and

    Parent
    The next big thing (none / 0) (#88)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:02:28 PM EST
    Re Tom of Finland: (none / 0) (#98)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 03:51:35 PM EST
    Isn't it interesting when you've never heard of an artist and then suddenly:

    This work is in the "Gorgeous" exhibit

    "Gorgeous" @ Asian Art Museum

    It is (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 04:39:09 PM EST
    Gorgeous.  How big is it I wonder.

    Shelf size or floor size.  Floor size would be magnificent

    I would totally have that in my house.

    Parent

    Michael I mean (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 04:41:26 PM EST
    Love to know which TOMs are in the show.  They range from slightly edgy to insanely over the top.

    Parent
    Michael is bigger than life. (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 05:58:18 PM EST
    The drawing by Tom of Finland is maybe 11 x 13 ". And, as the wall placard points out, the artist's erasures show completely different stances than the final.

    Parent
    Love to see Michael (none / 0) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 06:01:59 PM EST
    In person.  

    Parent
    Jeff Koons, not being shy, mentions (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 07:18:32 PM EST
    The Pieta.

    Parent
    CIA ups estimate (none / 0) (#128)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Sep 11, 2014 at 07:29:09 PM EST
    Seems they went from previous estimate of 10k to 20k to 31,500 Isis fighters. Woe de me.

    Jimmy. Kimmel Fashion Week (none / 0) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 07:45:40 AM EST
    hilarious

    "Phil Robertson is beyond one of my favorites."

    Firing Squad Back on the Table (none / 0) (#190)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 03:09:21 PM EST
    CHEYENNE, Wyo. -- Prompted by the shortages of available drugs for lethal injections, Wyoming lawmakers are considering changing state law to permit the execution of condemned inmates by firing squad.

    A Wyoming legislative committee has directed its staff to draft a firing-squad bill for consideration ahead of next year's legislative session starting in January.

    Lawmakers in Utah also may consider a return to firing squads for civilian executions. A Republican state lawmaker there recently announced that he intends to introduce firing-squad legislation in his state's next legislative session in January as well.

    Utah outlawed execution by firing squad in 2004 but kept it as an option for inmates convicted before that time. It last executed an inmate by firing squad in 2010.

    LINK

    Utah did what in 2010 ?

    AURORAS TONIGHT!!!! (none / 0) (#204)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 05:38:18 PM EST
    Mid day today we were hit with the second and largest CME (coronal mass ejection) in as many days.  Some disruption of the power grid is likely but so are spectacular auroras if you are in the right place with the right weather.  
    We are completely overcast here
    Naturally.
    LINK

    Don, the sailers got the breadfruit trees (none / 0) (#205)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 06:03:09 PM EST
    in Tahiti. 23 days after they left Tahiti there was the mutiny.

    They would only possibly drink lead water after they left Tahiti with the trees, if indeed they ever did drink lead water, which I doubt.

    Therefor, very unlikely that lead water was a factor.

    suo, I also don't think lead poisoning ... (none / 0) (#206)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 12, 2014 at 10:48:39 PM EST
    ... was any catalyst to the Bounty mutiny. After five long months in Tahiti to allow the breadfruit trees to reach a maturity that would enable them to survive a nine-month-plus return voyage to England, the prospect of life on board ship proved too daunting to contemplate for Fletcher Christian and half the ship's crew.

    (Christian himself had married a chief's daughter during the Tahiti interlude, and had contemplated desertion prior to mutiny.)

    I just included the Mayo Clinic info because according to them, lead toxicity in the human body is something that tends to build up over a long period of time. You're right that 23 days is way too short a time for it to effect behavior, and I also seriously doubt that the HMS Bounty was provisioned with lead-lined water casks prior to departing England for the South Pacific in 1788.

    Aloha.