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    Best dog video ever (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 02:59:29 PM EST
    Or, how to turn a cute little pooch into a terrifying mutant spider Who roams the night scaring the krap out of everyone he encounters

    when he said why he was releasing the Brown/Johnson convenience store tape:
    "I'd been sitting on it, but I -- too many people put in a [Freedom of Information Act] request for that thing, and I had to release that tape to you."

    According to these guys:

    a review of open records requests sent to the Ferguson Police Department found that no news organization, reporter or individual specifically sought the release of the surveillance tape before police distributed it on Aug. 15.

    It seems like something so easily checked, it kind of boggles the mind that he'd flat out lie about this. Well, it'll be interesting to see if the Chief has a response.

    From the beginning I've said (none / 0) (#25)
    by sj on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 05:24:19 PM EST
    that his statement was bogus. How many FOIA requests are made about random events at convenience stores? Seriously? If anyone really believed his statement -- a statement he was unable to make without twisting his own tongue into knots -- then s/he is either gullible, foolish or determined to hold on to his her predispositions.

    None of those things are mutually exclusive.

    Parent

    Agreed that his FOI claim sounded dubious (none / 0) (#27)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 05:46:47 PM EST
    from the get go.

    Parent
    So the police knew.... (none / 0) (#83)
    by unitron on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:00:02 AM EST
    ...that Brown was the guy in the store shoving the clerk around that they got on the radio about, and knew about the surveillance footage, but either

    A.  No one with the police leaked that info to the press,

    or

    B. No one in the press had any interest in following up on the leak

    Hmmm.

    Parent

    And did the 911 call (1.00 / 1) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:37:58 AM EST
    result in Wilson being given a description? Did the info come over the radio while he was talking with Brown? Which would explain the resulting actions of Brown and Wilson.

    But even if it did not the video speaks of a young man who was use to using violence to get what he wanted and explains his actions with Wilson.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:43:55 AM EST
    But even if it did not the video speaks of a young man who was use to using violence to get what  he wanted

    Yes Wilson, and many of the St Louis County police are used to using violence to get what they want.

    They apparently set a good example for those who they serve.

    Parent

    Your attempt at moral equivalency (none / 0) (#143)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:09:35 PM EST
    is noted.

    Even if correct it does not refute my point.

    Parent

    Moral Equivalency? (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:24:46 PM EST
    Sounds like your schtick..

    But even if it did not the video speaks of a young man who was use to using violence to get what he wanted and explains his actions with Wilson.

    Looks like you are equating Brown's pushing a storekeeper in order to justify Wilson's violent shooting of Brown.

    Take the log out of your eye...

    oh right it is not a bug but a fixture.

    Parent

    Well, that's what you were (1.00 / 1) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:26:45 PM EST
    attempting to do. Bad police bad Brown.

    My position on Wilson's actions are based on the fact that Brown hit Wilson while resisting arrest while attempting to get Wilson's weapon and then turned and charged Wilson.

    They are bad police. Always have been. My Dad warned me to never trust the police but he also told me to obey their commands. Don't argue. Don't fight. You can't win.

    And I have seen no evidence that Wilson was a bad cop.

    Parent

    Fact? (none / 0) (#161)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 03:06:28 PM EST
    the fact that Brown hit Wilson while resisting arrest

    got it, sounds like this sort of thing happens a lot to Wilson.

    Brooks, 28, was initially arrested on four misdemeanor and three felony charges related to assaulting an officer, resisting arrest, failing to obey orders and possessing drugs with intent to distribute. However, he has only been prosecuted on the distribution charge.

    Zotos said his client never received summonses related to the charges of disobeying and resisting Wilson.

    "Which is kind of a surprise, because it is something Ferguson would do to get the fine money if they could," said Zotos, adding that the statute of limitations has now expired.

    Brooks has a different story about Wilson's behavior. Sounds to me that Wilson may be a hot head that reacts badly when he does not get his way with people.

    Parent

    And your point is??? (1.00 / 1) (#167)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 03:39:07 PM EST
    Obviously there are no witnesses so the DA doesn't want to prosecute this guy for resisting who was selling dope to help out his family.

    lol

    Sounds to you??

    Well, we can see what Brown did when someone got in his way...


    Parent

    No Witnesses? (none / 0) (#168)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 03:42:39 PM EST
    There were several witnesses.

    Could that be why the assaulting an officer and resisting arrest charges were dropped?

    Or is it for you that black people do not count as witnesses when the cop is white?

    Parent

    Well, if you will (none / 0) (#183)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 05:30:53 PM EST
    read comment #166 we have a voice that sounds very much like a black male stating that Brown turned around and ran towards Wilson.

    And thank you for trying to play the race card.

    Parent

    You're Losing the Plot Again PPJ (none / 0) (#185)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 05:39:04 PM EST
    Obviously there are no witnesses so the DA doesn't want to prosecute this guy for resisting who was selling dope to help out his family.
    lol

    Wilson apparently made up a story about getting assaulted by Brooks. That gave Wilson the green light to beat on the suspect.

    There were witnesses.

    Why else would the police not add the assault charges?


    Parent

    The words are English (none / 0) (#87)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:02:26 AM EST
    But I have no idea what you are trying to say.

    Are you saying the Chief DIDN'T lie, or that he DID?

    Parent

    I'm saying that... (5.00 / 0) (#131)
    by unitron on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:39:08 PM EST
    ...the extraordinary claim here that requires extraordinary evidence is that the entire press was completely ignorant of the cigar incident and video thereof prior to the release of the video.

    Parent
    Why would they know (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:42:04 PM EST
    If I understand it was just a store security video.  Why would the press be aware of it.

    Maybe I'm not understanding your point.

    Parent

    Especially when nobody at the store ... (none / 0) (#136)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    CaptHowdy: "If I understand it was just a store security video.  Why would the press be aware of it."

    ... reported a robbery to the FPD! Further, we should remember that this surveillance video was released by the police mucho ex post facto, relative to Brown's shooting death.

    Parent

    A customer called 911 (2.00 / 0) (#181)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 05:26:51 PM EST
    In other words (none / 0) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    After they dug it up in a smear campaign.

    Parent
    Thought it was (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:18:20 AM EST
    That I had not had coffee yet

    Parent
    Welp. this is the FPD's response: (none / 0) (#109)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:43:35 AM EST
    UPDATE: Ferguson City Attorney Stephanie Karr released a statement early Saturday morning. [...]

        Within days of the tragic events on August 9, the City of Ferguson began receiving multiple requests for information and documents. While some of these requests were made in writing, many requests were made verbally due to the fact that the City's website and email were down at several points during that week. City personnel cataloged all requests and treated them in the same manner as it would any Sunshine Law request.[...]

        Several reporters, news organizations and others asked for documents specifically pertaining to Michael Brown. [...]

        The Ferguson police department retained the incident and investigative report of the store robbery which occurred less than 10 minutes before the shooting. The reports, which included the surveillance video, concerned Michael Brown. [...]

        By the date of August 15, the City having reached its statutory deadline to respond to the information requests, released the store robbery reports, including the surveillance video.



    Parent
    Wilson FOIA (none / 0) (#148)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:45:21 PM EST
    And then there was this FOIA request that the FPD stalled and then released only the redacted copy:

    Darren Wilson roughed up drug suspect

    Parent

    Thanks for the link (none / 0) (#157)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:30:33 PM EST
    that way we can read...

    A suspected drug dealer alleges

    and

    Brooks slapped my hand away," Wilson wrote. "Brooks was consistently yelling for his cousin, who was now on the front porch, to help him and asking him to `get me.' "

    The officer took control of Brooks' wrist and arm, but he "was resisting all control and refused to follow all commands given," Wilson wrote. The officer called for backup because he said the situation was "growing increasing hostile."



    Parent
    Another video from across the street (none / 0) (#159)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:41:49 PM EST
    Another video

    In this previously unreleased video, a witness is heard saying, "He held that boy and fired [inaudible]... he held his arm and hit 'im, POW!"

    Parent

    Phenix Daniels video (none / 0) (#160)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:49:39 PM EST
    Phenix Daniels witnessed Mike Brown being shot down by police.

    "Ferguson Police just killed a 17 year old child in the middle of the street right in front of my place..."

    Parent

    And then we have (1.00 / 1) (#166)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 03:34:54 PM EST
    this account of Brown turning and running towards Wilson.

    He said she said....

    Who you believe depends on who you want to believe..of course in this video the guy saying Brown turned has no reason to lie.

    Parent

    All the witnesses (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:52:07 PM EST
    ...Now at least four, say that Brown was trying to surrender.  No witness has said Brown "charged" Wilson.

    What do you make of the complete, utter and absolute failure of the FPD to provide a single document related to the shooting?  State law requires certain forms to be filled out after a police shooting of any kind.

    All we have is witnesses saying Brown was surrendering.  The FPD has not provided any sort of narrative, report, story, explanation, statement, or document giving any other view.  

    The only thing the FPD released was an inconclusive video that the Chief of the FPD said was completely, absolutely and totally unconnected to the shooting.  Now we know he even lied about the reasons he released it.

    The FPD has been caught in a lot of lies, and failed to follow up in the manner required by law.  The witnesses who say Brown was surrendering have no connection to him or each other, and had no reason or opportunity to coordinate stories.

    What is your interpretation of the stonewalling and outright lying by the FPD?  Doesn't it affect their credibility?

    Parent

    He said She said??? (none / 0) (#172)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:16:55 PM EST
    Not at all --

    Because He and She are saying the same thing.

    No witness is saying anything materially different from the fact that he had his hands up and was shot while surrendering.

    Who you believe depends on who you want to believe

    Ummmmm -- Do you have somebody in mind???

    Can you provide us with someone with a different story that we can believe???

    The best that the police union has provided is the anonymous second hand hearsay storyteller Josie -- and she will ever get near a courtroom.

    Parent

    No. Not correct (2.00 / 0) (#184)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 05:32:39 PM EST
    Open the link I gave you.

    Parent
    Hard Week (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:39:30 PM EST
    Got back from Yellowstone Monday.

    Six guys in an RV managed to put on 700 miles without any problems.  We bought all the food the first day at Costco.  I am still not sure how we managed to buy exactly what we needed.  We ate like kings and at the end, threw out a couple things.

    I now know in the mountains, the weather can go from 60's to a white out blizzard in 2 mins flat.  That the Snake River is cold, no matter how many times the river guide states 66 is warm.  That my brother's mapped shortcuts while hiking do not include the most important variable, elevation.  That an idiot who forgot about the gun and bullets in his carry-on, doesn't always get arrested.  Sometimes they call the cops who call the DA and decide to drive him back to his car to store it.  That getting to the airport 3 hours early to get drunk in in Continental lounge is a genius idea when you have friends who forget they had guns.

    It was a blast and parts are like other world, a lot of people sometimes, and on the edge of a true wilderness other times.

    Normally I am sick of my friends after a trip, but I think the work and planning of being in basically a self contained mobile cabin really brought out the best in everyone.  
    --------------------------

    Anyways, then on Tuesday I got an email from Chris, an old friend that I had it out with long ago.  He told me our good friend Ben had died walking to work that morning.  I had heard Chris had gone off the deep end and not sure if I thought he was messing with me or wanted him to be lying so badly, but I called Ben's work.  

    He was 38, worked out, and just a a cool motherfucker.  He was the closest friend I had in college and the person I always stayed with when I went to Wisconsin.  The thought of never seeing him again is heavy.

    They think he had a clot in his lung and died on a street in downtown Milwaukee alone, discovered later by a stranger.  

    This is the first time I have had to deal with someone close to me dying that didn't live a long life and it fricken sucks.  Of all my friends, he was the kindest and most giving by leaps and bounds.  Why he ever hung with me is a mystery, but GD I am better person for it.

    Sorry about yoru (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 06:02:43 PM EST
    friend. Usually at your age you tend to lose friends more in tragic accidents than a health issue.

    Parent
    That is terribly sad, and I'm so sorry (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 06:42:44 PM EST
    for your loss.  38 is way too young to die.

    Parent
    Terrible about your old friend (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:17:05 PM EST
    Peace your way.

    Parent
    Hey (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:54:37 PM EST
    my dogs got buzz cuts today
    I hope you like yours as much as they do.  They are VERY happy.   It was about 100 today.

    Parent
    mine gets buzzed next week (none / 0) (#98)
    by Dadler on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:54:46 AM EST
    the vacuuming of hair on the floor it will save me is key.

    Parent
    I stand on a drop cloth (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:04:06 AM EST
    Or I used to.  

    Parent
    Scott, since you're apparently offline, ... (5.00 / 5) (#76)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 11:34:52 PM EST
    ... I've taken the liberty of preserving your post per Jeralyn's request with the profanity redacted, before she follows through and deletes it later tonight. It's a nice post, and deserves to be saved:

    Hard Week (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:39:30 PM EST

    Got back from Yellowstone Monday.

    Six guys in an RV managed to put on 700 miles without any problems.  We bought all the food the first day at Costco.  I am still not sure how we managed to buy exactly what we needed.  We ate like kings and at the end, threw out a couple things.

    I now know in the mountains, the weather can go from 60's to a white out blizzard in 2 mins flat.  That the Snake River is cold, no matter how many times the river guide states 66 is warm.  That my brother's mapped shortcuts while hiking do not include the most important variable, elevation.  That an idiot who forgot about the gun and bullets in his carry-on, doesn't always get arrested.  Sometimes they call the cops who call the DA and decide to drive him back to his car to store it.  That getting to the airport 3 hours early to get drunk in in Continental lounge is a genius idea when you have friends who forget they had guns.

    It was a blast and parts are like other world, a lot of people sometimes, and on the edge of a true wilderness other times.

    Normally I am sick of my friends after a trip, but I think the work and planning of being in basically a self contained mobile cabin really brought out the best in everyone.  
    --------------------------

    Anyways, then on Tuesday I got an email from Chris, an old friend that I had it out with long ago.  He told me our good friend Ben had died walking to work that morning.  I had heard Chris had gone off the deep end and not sure if I thought he was messing with me or wanted him to be lying so badly, but I called Ben's work.  

    He was 38, worked out, and just a cool mother------.  He was the closest friend I had in college and the person I always stayed with when I went to Wisconsin.  The thought of never seeing him again is heavy.

    They think he had a clot in his lung and died on a street in downtown Milwaukee alone, discovered later by a stranger.  

    This is the first time I have had to deal with someone close to me dying that didn't live a long life and it fricken sucks.  Of all my friends, he was the kindest and most giving by leaps and bounds.  Why he ever hung with me is a mystery, but GD I am better person for it.

    Glad you had a good trip, and I'm sorry to hear of your friend's passing.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Sorry about your friend (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:43:10 PM EST
    And sorry your comment will almost certainly be deleted for profanity.  Seriously.  I liked it.  

    Parent
    I am so very sorry about your friend. (none / 0) (#50)
    by sj on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:31:58 PM EST
    And am amused at the good time you had with your friends. It's hard to know how to feel isn't it?

    Parent
    Oh, Scott - that's awful; I'm so sorry. (none / 0) (#53)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:36:15 PM EST
    Terrible to think about something like that happening to anyone - it kind of gives me chills a little bit.

    It's all just so random, this thing we call life.  We think we're in control, but I don't know - maybe that's just an illusion, something to give us all purpose.

    I hope it was quick, that he didn't suffer; sad to think about the things he didn't get to do or say, and hard for the people he leaves behind.  

    Hope you'll get to talk with some of your mutual friends, share some memories, raise a glass or two and maybe find lots to laugh about.  It won't bring him back, and you won't have any more answers than you do now, but maybe it helps a little.

    [Glad your Yellowstone trip was a good one, and that no one ended up in jail.]

    Parent

    please repost this without the (none / 0) (#56)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:46:00 PM EST
    profanity. It's a heartfelt post and I'd like to see it stay, but it can't with the profanity. I'll delete this one in a few hours to give you time to repost. Thanks.

    Parent
    So sorry about your friend (none / 0) (#66)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 09:00:03 PM EST
    How horribly sad for everyone who knew him.  Just no comfort to be had when we lose someone so young so suddenly.

    Parent
    My condolences to you... (none / 0) (#84)
    by unitron on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:05:44 AM EST
    ...and everyone else who cared about Ben.

    Perhaps this could be an opening for you and Chris to patch things up between you.

    Parent

    Unbelievable McDonnell video (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 08:28:43 PM EST
    All our worst assumptions are confirmed on camera by a "friend of the family" it's a gubment conspiracy, blah blah.  But the VERY BEST part is that she compares his tribulations to, wait for it.......Jesus Christ.   I swear - as they say - to god

    You can't make this stuff up.
    Just like Jesus Bob will rise again.


    Btw (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 08:36:51 PM EST
    This is not some random person on the street.  It's outside their house and the person speaking in doing it while taking a break from making their dinner.

    Parent
    Rachel's interview (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 08:58:29 PM EST
    Is with one of the jurors.  Very interesting.  Among other things she basically says she thought the "marital problems" thing was bunk based on the evidence they saw.
    Should watch it when it's up.

    Parent
    Rachel's (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 07:54:54 AM EST
    It can't be true because he already (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:13:38 PM EST
    knows Obama hates America therefore information that might suggest anything else can't be true. Even if it is true.

    Whew (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:19:57 PM EST
    That felt really good.  Sorry for the momentary loss of decorum.  Deletions understood.  It was worth it.

    Delusions are awfully hard to counter (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:24:42 PM EST
    And it looks like I didn't miss anything last night except the latest commercials for Gold XXXX powder by not watching the 'special' on Benghazi last night.


    Parent
    Gee, I don't remember people objecting (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:02:55 PM EST
    when George Bush won't testify under oath to the 9/11 committee.

    IOKIYAR?

    Nice pictures... (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:02:57 PM EST
    You knew this was coming (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 07, 2014 at 12:43:46 PM EST
    Obama slammed for walking alone at Stonehenge

    Gee, I wonder why I don't take anything the GOP says seriously?  At least he was not in a tan suit. What the h do they want?

    Who did the station chief (1.00 / 1) (#133)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:45:43 PM EST
    make that claim to??

    Was he under oath??

    Who is he?? I mean "Bob" doesn't tell us much.

    And why didn't you include a link for your claims?

    You know, this is a serious national security issue that should transcend politics. Why are you afraid to have questions answered??

    I mean, try and forget about the actual fact that Susan Rice's claim that the video caused the attack was not true.

    Focus on the CIA chief. Get his testimony under oath.

    And tell us who prevented air power from being used.

    That you cannot answer that doesn't justify your savage and nasty personal attacks. But it does explain them. You are afraid of the truth.

    I've included several links ... (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:05:18 PM EST
    ... which show that there was no "stand down" order and that air support was too far way to make it in time, supported by numerous military officers, senior military leaders, testimony from CIA officials.

    You, OTOH, have provided not a single link to support your "question" that some order was given to the CIA Base Chief who was trying to secure heavy weapons and militia support for the three guys he had with him.

    Parent

    Recap (1.00 / 2) (#204)
    by whitecap333 on Sun Sep 07, 2014 at 03:48:34 AM EST
    So here's what the tea leaves tell me happened here:  Brown, fearing that he was about to be arrested for robbery and assault, slammed the squad car door on Wilson as he attempted to exit.  Wilson, by this time having heard the BOLO, and spotted the cigars, struggled to arrest Brown, who struck him in the face with his fists.  Wilson drew his weapon and, at some point, it discharged.  Brown then fled, with Wilson in pursuit.  As I read the Missouri statues, Wilson was fully authorized, at this point, to use whatever force might be necessary to prevent Brown's escape.  I see no reason to doubt that Wilson felt it was his sworn duty to prevent an escape.  He fired several times, and Brown stopped, with uplifted hands, and turned.  Here is where we have the "three second pause," as Wilson caught up with Brown.  At a distance of 10 feet, Brown, ignoring Wilson's instructions to get on the ground, began to advance towards Wilson.  Wilson retreated, and began firing, striking Brown in the arm several times.  (I do not see how the arms could have been elevated at this time.)  Wilson, after retreating some 25 feet, stopped Brown with his final two shots.  

    Obviously, I am not here giving words from the lips of Dorian Johnson and his fellow accusers the weight of Sacred Writ.  

    The unresponsive private plane is in the ocean (none / 0) (#2)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:04:13 PM EST
    off Jamaica. There were 2-4 people onboard depending on the source (2 pilots 2 passengers?) headed to Naples, FL. Perhaps another Payne Stewart type incident.

    Msnbc (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:06:38 PM EST
    Was saying it was just two.  Two pilots as well?

    Parent
    Not sure (none / 0) (#4)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:14:49 PM EST
    Rochester, NY developer Larry Glazer and his wife were onboard and the plane is owned by his company, but no mention as to who was flying. Some sources say 2, some say the couple and 2 pilots. He is also a pilot so perhaps just the two of them.

    Parent
    Got it (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:20:37 PM EST
    BBC 16 mins ago (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:20:04 PM EST
    The two passengers on board have been named as Larry and Jane Glazer from Rochester, New York, officials have said.

    no mention of others.  Were did you see that?

    Parent

    Crazy (none / 0) (#8)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:29:58 PM EST
    Glazer has his finger in a lot of pies around here. There was an interview with him a few weeks ago in a local paper in which he was touted as a one of Rochester's forward-looking visionaries.

    Parent
    According to one of the fighter pilots (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:32:12 PM EST
    Following he was breathing right up until they crashed.  They hoped they would regain consciousness when they lost altitude

    Parent
    If you live here long enough (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:38:11 PM EST
    you may get the sudden urge to do things like that.

    A surprising number of people here are hit by trains as well.

    Parent

    OMG Captain (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 05:54:21 PM EST
    That isn't depressing at all :(

    Parent
    Change of subject (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 06:07:03 PM EST
    Last night I dreamed I had an NC17 romantic encounter with Brad Pitt.  Right hand to god.  I have no idea where I t came from.  I'm not even a bit fan.  But there it is.  It was long, vivid, involved and I am not complaining.

    Sorry for the overshare.  But I haven't told anyone.  

    Parent

    I have slept with Matt Damon several times (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:21:13 PM EST
    While my husband slept soundly next to us :). He really brings out my wild side.  When I cheat on my spouse it usually comes out of nowhere too.

    I was telling my husband about Lady Valor, he is in Korea and it is harder for him to see it soon, he started laughing.  He said he gets real information from me.

    Parent

    Racy dreams are not that (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:25:21 PM EST
    Unusual for me but Brad was my first celebrity.   Tonight I plan to go to sleep staring at a pic of Ryan Kwanten

    Parent
    What will he star in next? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:28:06 PM EST
    Hopefully my long (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:33:55 PM EST
    Loooooong dream tonight.  Seriously I don't know.  But I hope it's on cable and requires he take his clothes off a lot

    Parent
    Imdb sez (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:35:49 PM EST
    My only celebrity dream.... (5.00 / 4) (#68)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 09:02:47 PM EST
    I was adopted by Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward. It was fantastic!

    Parent
    So Help Me ..... (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:22:19 PM EST
    An atheist airman at Creech Air Force Base in Nevada was denied reenlistment last month for refusing to take an oath containing "so help me God," the American Humanist Association said Thursday.

    "Reciting `So help me God' in the reenlistment and commissioning oaths is a statutory requirement under Title 10 USC 502," Air Force spokeswoman Rose Richeson said Thursday. AFI 36-2606 "is consistent with the language mandated in 10 USC 502. Paragraph 5.6 [and] was changed in October 2013 to reflect the aforementioned statutory requirement and airmen are no longer authorized to omit the words `So help me God.' "

    The Air Force said it cannot change its AFI to make "so help me God" optional unless Congress changes the statute mandating it.

    airforce times

    The Air Force is wrong about that (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 05:29:17 PM EST
    Article VI, clause 3, of the Constitution of the United States declares that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."  A compelled declaration of belief in God is a "religious test," and a servicemember holds a position of "public trust under the United States," any statute to the contrary notwithstanding. In my professional opinion, at least.

    Parent
    They know it too Peter (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 05:59:32 PM EST
    They have been called on this before.  The Air Force is having a horrific time of being taken over by Evangelical Christians.  And the leadership thinks they write their own rules about many things, including religion.  They are horrible embarrassment right now.

    Parent
    How are the evangelical Protestant bullies (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 08:08:58 PM EST
    in the Air Force when it comes to conservative Catholics?  Are they all in bed together, or are all Catholics considered heretics and outsiders to these guys, like Jews, Muslims, mainstream Protestants, atheists, etc.?

    Parent
    Catholics are considered heretics :) (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 08:23:18 PM EST
    Jews? Not pleasant.  Muslims?  Does Air Force even have any?

    The Evangelical problem and the hazing and exclusion of all others starts at the Air Force Academy, so almost their entire upper echelon of command is polluted now with individuals claiming if they can't proselytize in uniform, their religious freedoms while in uniform are being denied. The leadership denied the problems at the Academy first, then they ignored them, and now we have this!  Shame upon everyone that allowed this poison to breed and spawn.

    Focus on the Family and a group called "The Navigators" (some really freaky cult) set their sights on infiltrating the Academy.  It is all part of God's plan to eventually turn our government over to The Lord, it will be run in accordance with his word :)

    They've done a pretty good job so far too.

    Parent

    This is how bad it is (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 08:28:40 PM EST
    This is a letter from the Spartacus from the last graduating class.

    Lying To Survive

    Parent

    The Evangelicals have done a real number ... (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 09:11:59 PM EST
    ... on the Air Force Academy and Colorado Springs, a place that's only 100 miles from Denver physically, but otherwise appears to be on another planet.

    Parent
    Nukes and Evangilicals. (none / 0) (#96)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:53:34 AM EST
    This will turn out great!

    Parent
    "Evangelicals" (none / 0) (#97)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:54:07 AM EST
    Hopefully the courts (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:21:00 PM EST
    Will disagree

    Parent
    The courts need to Hulk out (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:27:04 PM EST
    On the Air Force.  They are currently out of control.

    Being the mom of a lower digit teen boy comes with a wealth of exposure :)

    Parent

    Dominionism (none / 0) (#100)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:11:22 AM EST
    The movement is Dominionism. The plan is for a US christian theocracy.

    The term "Dominionism" was popularized in the 1990s by scholars and journalists, who applied it to conservative Christians seeking political power. It derives from the Book of Genesis, in which God tells Adam and Eve to have "dominion" over the Earth and its animals. "Dominionism" generally describes the belief that Christians are biblically mandated to control all earthly institutions until the second coming of Jesus.

    Experts identify two main schools of Dominionism: Christian Reconstructionists, who believe biblical law, including stoning as punishment for adultery and other transgressions, should replace secular law; and the New Apostolic Reformation, which advocates for Christians to "reclaim the seven mountains of culture": government, religion, media, family, business, education, and arts and entertainment.

    link

    Parent

    Ya (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:16:55 AM EST
    Big around here.  The long hair long skirts no makeup or jewelry ladies are essentially Dominionists

    Parent
    Changing Times (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:26:35 PM EST
    It used to be that the Dominionists wore leather, spikes, and chains.

    Parent
    Unlike the old days (none / 0) (#105)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:30:20 AM EST
    when they massaged your aura.

    Parent
    home schoolin' too (none / 0) (#110)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:43:47 AM EST
    A couple of years ago I went to an upstate new york relative's funeral.  Talking with people at the visitation I was stunned to see how many home schoolers there were.

    This was in the middle of nowhere, a fairly homogeneous area.  None of the stereotypical reasons for keeping children out of public schools applied.

    Balkinization.  I'd almost prefer a return to the old days, when only the rich were permitted (by finances) a private education.

    Parent

    Yep (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:49:21 AM EST
    Schools here are very safe and relatively good compared to urban schools.  If I had one problem it would be too much Jesus.  And still home schooling is common.  

    Sadly, here, evolution - even though it's taught as a "theory" like creationism - is the biggest reason.

    Parent

    Reasons? (none / 0) (#114)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:50:30 AM EST
    Not sure where in Upstate NY you were but:

    None of the stereotypical reasons for keeping children out of public schools applied.

    I think that the many local schools Upsatate have classrooms that are populated with children of parents who are not in the best shape, mentally, physically and emotionally.

    Lots of meth labs, and poverty..

    Parent

    Another aspect: The Environment (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by christinep on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:03:24 PM EST
    The philosophy centering around the Genesis language related to man "shall have dominion over" earth, sea & all around, etc. played well for the erstwhile Secretary of Interior, James Watt.  As Secretary during Reagan's term and as a fairly strident Evangelical, Watt epitomized the man-can-take-all-the-earth's-resources-and-do-whatever-he-wants school of thought, imo.

    In more recent years, thankfully, most mainstream Churches in the U.S. emphasize the Biblical obligation in Genesis and more to act as good "stewards" of the Earth.  The responsibility of stewardship is quite pronounced in the Catholic Church, e.g.; and, in fact, it is common to hear collegiate lectures as well as sermons exhorting to take care of the earth and environs that God has graciously given us.  

    As eco-theology expands--and, btw, that is the term used to explore the manifestation of the Divine on earth--the acquisitive notion of humans' unrestrained dominion recedes.  (At least in the environmental field.)

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#38)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:02:17 PM EST
    But it appears that they are either wait for congress to change the unconstitutional law that was, no doubt, added to a big defense bill, or have the Supreme Court decide..

    There have been unconstitutional laws passed, not much new there.

    Parent

    This is an Air Force leadership problem! (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:36:38 PM EST
    This is General Welsh not leading!  This is playing into the good old boys bull$hit where Generals don't correct Generals.  This is turning some Air Force Generals into indulged sniveling whining bratty tyrants!

    General Welsh could end all this bull$hit NOW if he wanted.

    Parent

    The President (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:41:49 PM EST
    Should give Fox News a few months of lead stories and do it for him.  Maybe after November.

    Just MO.  But I assume he could, right?

    Parent

    We know what would happen though (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 08:13:11 PM EST
    Conservatives would go nuts, red meat before the elections.  A General serves the President if anyone does! Five stars need to be five stars and end the erosion of troop morale, or maybe they don't need five stars anymore?

    Parent
    While this issue may seem (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by NYShooter on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:18:00 AM EST
    a little small compared to some of the other big, important things going on, however, it pretty much stopped me in my tracks. They snuck in a provision that overturns one of the most important tenets of our democracy, so important it was included in the Bill of Rights. (The separation of Church and State.)

    For that reason I hope it's advanced to the Supreme Court for a decision. We often say things in a sort of macabre way when we're tee'd off about some of the things our elected (or, not) officials do. We say something like, "well, see ya, America; it was nice while it lasted."

    If the Supremes uphold the A.F. Academy's rule, "see ya, America," won't be a joke any more. But, "making lemonade out of lemons," maybe, this could be the issue leading to one, or, more, impeachments.

    Regardless how this turns out people should be aware just how important this issue is.

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:20:40 AM EST
    It's stunning and frightening

    Parent
    Also Of Interest (none / 0) (#107)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:33:03 AM EST
    It is the Air Force that is fighting ISIS..

    No boots on the ground.. well in a manner of speaking..

    Parent

    Probably some (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:53:10 AM EST
    Boots surreptitiously in the air, if you know what I mean.  

    Parent
    Wonder what (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:08:44 PM EST
    If he said "so help me Allah" "or so help me Cthulhu" or "so help me Flying Spaghetti Monster"?

    It's a valid question.  Can they pick gods?

    Parent

    Well Yes (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:13:22 PM EST
    But they have to use the words:

    So help me God

    That makes it impossible for atheists.

    Parent

    Perhaps in the imperative: (none / 0) (#72)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 10:20:41 PM EST
    "So, help me God!"

    Parent
    Donald have you seen this? (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:36:56 PM EST
    Does apply?

    Breakthrough Melanoma Treatment Fast Tracked By FDA

    Yesterday, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved a new therapy for patients with advanced melanoma. The treatment, Keytruda (pembrolizumab), proved so successful in a large Phase 1 clinical trial that the drug was granted breakthrough therapy designation by the FDA, meaning that it was fast tracked for approval.



    Well, I'm not quite at the ... (none / 0) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:50:20 PM EST
    ... "advanced stage" of the disease. But it's affected lymph nodes in my neck, so the aggressive treatment I'm receiving has been focused on ensuring that it doesn't spread into any of my internal organs. I've lost my hair, and Everyone says I look fine without it, but I probably look like one of the aliens in "Mars Attacks!"

    Mahalo for thinking of me.

    Parent

    I've missed you Donald. You bring something (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:11:40 PM EST
    special to this site, glad you're posting again.

    Parent
    HA (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 03:54:49 PM EST
    Love ya Donald.  One more for you -

    we all have a new Hawaiian address

    Where in the universe is the Milky Way?

    Galaxies like ours huddle in clusters, and large-scale systems of galaxies, called superclusters, have vague boundaries that are difficult to define (especially from the inside): They're all drawn to each other and interconnected in a web of filaments. Now for the first time, astronomers have constructed a map of the local universe. They've named our home supercluster Laniakea, Hawaiian for "immeasurable heaven." The work was published in Nature this week.

    This is sort of amazing

    Parent

    This was in our local media last week. (none / 0) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:07:33 PM EST
    And this latest discovery shows why the University of Hawaii is renowned as of the world's leading institutions in the astronomical sciences.

    Parent
    And speaking of astronomical sciences, ... (none / 0) (#130)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:38:18 PM EST
    ... did you know that Brian May, Queen's legendary lead guitarist, holds a PhD is astrophysics, is a visiting researcher at London's Imperial College, and co-authored the book "Bang! The Complete History of the Universe" with Patrick Moore and Chris Lintoff?

    Parent
    I did now that (none / 0) (#137)
    by sj on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:03:05 PM EST
    All the members of Queen are quite accomplished. Freddie was an art student who designed their logo. Roger Taylor has a degree in Biology and John Deacon is an electrical engineer who used to build equipment for the band.

    They all had something to fall back on if that music thing hadn't worked out :)

    Parent

    ... that today would've been Freddie Mercury's 68th birthday. Has it really been that long since he's been gone?

    Parent
    I know, right? (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by sj on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 06:46:26 PM EST
    1991. 23 years. It's funny how time works. It is now nine years since I lost my mother and brother in a car accident. Almost a decade.

    That sounds like a long time. It doesn't feel like a long time.

    Missing them today. Not much connection between them and Freddie, other than they are all gone from this world. Along with their gifts.

    Parent

    It doesn't necessarily make one feel any better about it. I'm very sorry for your loss.

    Parent
    Very true (none / 0) (#201)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 08:50:08 PM EST
    I haven't visited for sometime (none / 0) (#86)
    by samsguy18 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 09:45:34 AM EST
    Donald I am sorry to hear about your health issues. I know the treatments these days  have a lot of success....the side affects like losing your hair etc are an indication the treatments are working . Wishing you all the best .

    Parent
    Benghazi is back in the news (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:05:57 PM EST
    Fox News Channel as a special report at 10PM ET.

    I am sure many of you will want to see it.

    ;-)

    PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLL. (5.00 / 7) (#18)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:12:38 PM EST
    Sorry for screaming but it's Friday and I've had a long week.  

    Parent
    Gee Angel (1.00 / 5) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:22:50 PM EST
    I'm sorry you've had a long week...

    I'm sure no one else has.

    BTW - Be sure and turn in for some actual facts instead of DOS pablum about Internet videos.

    Parent

    Is that... (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by unitron on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:42:42 AM EST
    "...DOS pablum about Internet videos."

    MS-DOS, IBM's PC-DOS, DR-DOS, QDOS, SC-DOS, DOS that's really CP/M, or one of the lesser known Disk Operating Systems?

    Parent

    Uh-oh, too late (none / 0) (#71)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 10:19:21 PM EST
    too many bit.   Good advice though.

    Parent
    My apologies . . . (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 11:38:09 PM EST
    but I did go down and check out some of the booths with my DalGal Rox and she got to be around her first horse, a formerly wild mustang!  :D And she (Dixie, the Mustang) grinned on cue and bowed. Rox handled herself nicely and the kids (and their parents) got a kick out of meeting a horse and a Dal :) A little bit of 'wilderness' for us urban kids ;)

    Tonight all the galleries and the navel museum are having openings (everything is close and walkable), but I was too worn out to be 'that' social.

    I was trying to change the conversation, but I wasn't very good and nobody bit :P Next time I'll say the sky is blue and see if he disagrees, because in his mind I'm probably a "Demo" ;)

    Parent

    Bret Baier's commitment to this story is (1.00 / 1) (#88)
    by samsguy18 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:08:50 AM EST
    To be admired ,no matter what  your politics. four lives were lost.. The real story around what happened in  Benghazi was suppressed. Personally I resent being manipulated by politicians and the media . What is happening in the country today is alarming.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:23:57 AM EST
    Thank god for his commitment.   Certainly no one else on Fox News is willing to talk about it.

    Parent
    If the "real story" ... (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:27:36 AM EST
    ... was suppressed by manipulating politicians and the media, how is it that you discovered it?  What is the "real story"?

    Parent
    Not a fair question (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:45:18 AM EST
    If he knew the real story, which any number of people here would be happy to tell him, he would not be able to b!tich and whine constantly about NOT knowing the "real story".  
    Which is the actual point.

    Parent
    I have to say (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:49:56 AM EST
    Part if me loves the ridiculous Orwellian irony that the whole point of that stupid "special report" was to pre spin the fact that ithe book in question completely blows the BS conspiracy theories they have been pushing for two years to pieces.

    And these geniuses are to stupid to get that.  It's really a perfect and wonderful example of how easily led these fools are.

    Parent

    Then Bush/Cheney/Rice/Rummy/Faux News (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by Angel on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:51:07 AM EST
    should top your list of most vile. Talk about being manipulative....

    Personally I resent being manipulated by politicians and the media . What is happening in the country today is alarming.


    Parent
    You want vile? I'll give you vile (none / 0) (#141)
    by NYShooter on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:06:30 PM EST
    While The Republican Party, disgustingly masquerading as human beings, squeals 24/7, "Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!" their psychopathic, and, sadistic actions as "Congressional Representative" have caused, and, are causing, the needless deaths of tens of thousands of their constituents.

    Of course, I'm talking about Republican Governors, and, their refusal to expand Medicaid in their states, even with the Federal government picking up 95% of the tab. The cruelty they impose on their citizens, and, the hatred they display towards their poorer constituents is, simply, beyond belief. And, to think that these unspeakable wretches would trade early graves for their citizens in return for a pat on the head from Norquist, Limbaugh, and The Koch Brothers is just stunning.

    And, if you think this is hyperbole, or, an exaggeration, think again.

    From the Washington Post:

    "The Institute of Medicine developed a detailed methodology for projecting the lives lost due to lack of insurance. The original paper estimated that 18,000 lives were lost in 2000, and the Urban Institute updated that analysis with data for 2006, yielding an estimate of 22,000 lives." So, the number of people who died needlessly due to lack of insurance between the years of 2000 and 2006 was 150,000 (approximately, 25,000/yr.) And, speaking personally, the exact numbers don't matter. What matters, and, it's irrefutable, is that many thousands of American citizens have health insurance available, but, being denied by the very Governors sworn to act in their best interests.

    Link

    I really hope, and, I'm asking the posters/commenters here, to please, please don't spend a second responding to this filthy, manufactured political lie. (Like, these "patriots" really give a crap about 4 foreign service employees.) By being sucked in, and, attempting to engage in fact-based debate with people so intellectually hollow that they would follow and support a Party committing genocide against our most needy citizens would leave a stain, and, a stench impossible to remove. You know that their goal is not to "find the truth," or, to "determine what happened." It's to smear a Black President, and divert attention from the inhuman Republican assault against the American people.  

    Parent

    samsguy18, they didn't see the (1.00 / 1) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:31:32 AM EST
    program. What they will sing a song about is Fox News. How dare Fox look for the truth??

    I have asked them before and ask again.

    Why don't they want the truth?? Why are they so angry at those who ask?

    The answer is simple. They are afraid.

    And, I hope, in their humanity they are ashamed.

    Parent

    It has absolutely nothing ... (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:45:42 AM EST
    ... to do with "asking questions" or "looking for truth".

    It's a wingnut network pushing "questions" that have already been answered (and debunked) repeatedly.  They - and the people who keep pushing these lies - should be ashamed.  But those people have no sense of shame, so ...

    Parent

    Then help us out, Yman (none / 0) (#117)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:57:31 AM EST
    who told the CIA chief, on scene, to hold the men.

    Who failed to answer the request for air cover.

    Your turn, but no blather. Names and/or titles, please.

    Parent

    "Asked" and answered numerous times (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:16:40 PM EST
    ... including by both the House and Senate Committees who investigated, supported by the sworn testimony of at least nine military officers involved who testified and numerous CIA officials.  There was absolutely zero evidence of any "stand down" order.  The Base chief and security team were trying to get heavy weapons and assistance from the militias supporting them, as opposed to sending three men armed with light weapons against a large crowd.

    The air support "question" has been answered numerous times, under oath, by civilian and military leaders.  They have consistently indicated there was no way to get armed planes to Benghazi in time.

    Facts, not wingut fantasies posed as "questions".

    Parent

    I get that (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:23:43 PM EST
    But you would THINK that when the particular "facts" they are supposed to be so interested in are covered IN THE VERY STUPID TV SHOW THEY ARE PIMPING it might, if not sink in,  at least influence by osmosis or something.

    Parent
    Then show some links. (1.00 / 1) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:05:27 PM EST
    And read what I wrote to Howdy.

    BTW - The distances between the air base in Sicily and Benghazi is 768 KM - 477 miles.

    A gun ship could have been there in less than two hours. Jets in about an hour.

    Not quick enough to save the ambassador. The defense team could have done that. But certainly quick enough to kill the two who died on the room.

    Yman, why are you afraid to admit that, at best, the CIA and the military, made some terrible decisions and mistakes.

    Why are you afraid to admit that Rice had to know she was lying on the Sunday shows re the video?? I know she is beloved of your hero, but why defend her lies? You just make yourself look bad.

    And why, on 9/11 of all days, was no one one ready??

    Can you not accept that it is the responsibility of the leaders to set the tone and insure the gates are closed against the barbarians everyone knows lurk outside?

    Parent

    Heh, heh, heh ... (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:11:23 PM EST
    BTW - The distances between the air base in Sicily and Benghazi is 768 KM - 477 miles.

    A gun ship could have been there in less than two hours. Jets in about an hour.

    For someone who "spent ten years in naval aviation", you sure don't have a clue.

    Read the links I provided and then hang your head in embarrassment.

    Heh, heh, heh ...

    Parent

    The AC 130 can do 300 MPH... (none / 0) (#150)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:55:59 PM EST
    In case you can't add and divide that's 600 miles in two hours.

    But just jets making low passes would have disrupted the attacks.

    There was no "stand down" order issued to U.S. military personnel in Tripoli who sought to join the fight in Benghazi.

    Then why didn't they respond??

    Let me see... People are requesting help and I'll just ignore it and not respond??

    Really???????

    How about Sicily??

    Everyone appears to be engaged in CYA's.

    They didn't have duty crews???

    Really??

    I spent 10 years in Naval Aviation and they had no one on duty???

    Really??

    I do not believe that. And if that is true then God help us because our military is totally inept.

    And....

    the Committee found no evidence of intentional delay or obstruction by the Chief of Base or any other party.

    And they weren't required to testify under oath.

    And  finally, from your own source:

    I. In assessing military posture in anticipation of the September 11 anniversary, White House officials failed to comprehend or ignored the dramatically deteriorating security
    situation in Libya
    and the growing threat to U.S. interests in the region. Official public
    statements seem to have exaggerated the extent and rigor of the security assessment
    conducted at the time.


    Parent
    Isn't it naptime for you, jim? (none / 0) (#154)
    by Angel on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:04:17 PM EST
    Read the links (none / 0) (#155)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:22:52 PM EST
    ... to the sworn testimony from the military officers:

    DOD accounted for the location of each of its AC-130 aircraft in the military's inventory. DOD reported to the committee that no AC-130s were in the region in the days before the Benghazi attack, including for maintenance, crew rest, or merely transiting through the area.


    But just jets making low passes would have disrupted the attacks.

    The military officers testified that unarmed jets doing fly-bys, even if they could arrange for refueling and get them there in time, would probably have had no effect.  It would take them about 2 minutes to figure out they were not dropping an bombs.

    Then why didn't they respond??

    They DID respond, after they spent 20-25 minutes trying to secure heavy weapons and militia support, rather than sending in three guys with light weapons against a heavily armed, much larger group.

    Read ... the ... report.

    the Committee found no evidence of intentional delay or obstruction by the Chief of Base or any other party.

    And they weren't required to testify under oath.

    Numerous CIA and military officials testified under oath, to the committees, many of them not in public.  You have no idea of who testified.

    I spent 10 years in Naval Aviation and they had no one on duty???

    Really??

    I do not believe that. And if that is true then God help us because our military is totally inept

    .

    I could care less what you believe.  Back it up with facts and evidence, otherwise it's just more wingnut conspiracy theories.

    In assessing military posture in anticipation of the September 11 anniversary, White House officials failed to comprehend or ignored the dramatically deteriorating security
    situation in Libya and the growing threat to U.S. interests in the region. Official public
    statements seem to have exaggerated the extent and rigor of the security assessment
    conducted at the time.

    Which has nothing to do with your original claims of imaginary "stand down" orders for the contractors or air support.  But the fact that a Republican-controlled, House committee would include this general criticism of the administration surprise you?

    Heh.

    If you can't take the time to read facts, don't bother us with your winger fantasies.

    Parent

    BTW - Those are military ... (none / 0) (#158)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 02:31:42 PM EST
    ... leaders experienced in executing actual combat operations, who are well aware of the fact that the time required to execute s close air support mission is more than the distance divided by the speed of the plane.

    Not sure if they know there way around a Navy mess hall, though ...

    Parent

    The point is this (1.00 / 2) (#169)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:00:07 PM EST
    They didn't know how long the people in Benghazi would be under attack.

    And, in fact, there were multiple attacks continuing for hours.

    So let's play your game.

    The initial attack happened at 9:40 PM.

    At 4:00 AM......Six hours and twenty minutes later mortar attacks killed Doherty and Woods and wound two others.

    Now the request for air support was made around 9:40. NOTHING WAS DONE. WHY NOT?

    11 p.m.: A U.S. surveillance drone arrives over Benghazi. Then-Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta and Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, meet with President Obama.

    Obama dithered and men died.

    The military did nothing because someone said do nothing and that somebody was Obama.

    If Obama had said go there were 5 hours left. And since the request was made an hour and 20 minutes earlier Sicily would have been ready.

    And two men died because of it.

    Obama is incapable of making a decision under pressure and our enemies have him figured out.

    We are in for a very rough time.

    Parent

    I'm not playing games with you, James. (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:12:45 PM EST
    So far, all the sources people present to you aren't good enough,  not even the sworn testimony of military office before a Congressional investigational Committee, as Yman pointed out in the thread above this comment.

    You obfuscate and ask ridiculous questions, when you're not trying to hold a pity party about how insulted you get when someone brings facts and logic to the table and doesn't blame  Obama for every problem in this country from adultery to zoonoses.

    As you like to say, no charge for the lesson.

    Parent

    Look at the time line and what (1.00 / 1) (#179)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:58:35 PM EST
    actually happened. And then bounce that up against common sense.

    But, in the end we have this:

    The outgoing Defense Secretary Leon Panetta revealed on Thursday that President Obama was absent the night of the lethal attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya - despite being told that the attack was occurring.
    Speaking in front of senators investigating the terror assault which saw four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens lose their lives, Panetta said that Mr. Obama did not call or communicate with his defense secretary that night either.

    link

    He did nothing. The country was under attack and he did nothing. He ran off and hid.

    He is the worst example of a leader that I have ever seen.

    And just look at his record. Time after time he voted "Presdent."

    The leopard cannot change its spots.


    Parent

    Gotta love those cropped quotes (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 07:14:11 PM EST
    SEN. KELLY AYOTTE (R-NH): But just to be clear, that night he didn't ask you what assets we had available and how quickly they could respond and how quickly we could help those people there -

    PANETTA: No. I think the biggest problem that night, Senator, is that nobody knew really what was going on there.

    AYOTTE: And there was no follow up during the night, at least from the White House directly?

    PANETTA: No. No, there wasn't.

    DEMPSEY: I would, if I could just, to correct one thing. I wouldn't say there was no follow-up from the White House. There was no follow-up, to my knowledge, with the president.  But his staff was engaged with the national military command center pretty constantly through the period, which is the way it would normally work.

    Not to mention Panetta's other testimony, which the winger's somehow always manage to "forget":

    Exasperated with Graham's interruptions, Panetta said forcefully, "The president is well-informed about what is going on; make no mistake about it."
    ...
    Panetta said he and Dempsey were meeting with Obama when they first learned of the Libya assault. He said the president told them to deploy forces as quickly as possible.

    Oops ...

    Parent

    Nice try (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:19:44 PM EST
    That wasn't your original "point"/"question"/fantasy.

    A gun ship could have been there in less than two hours. Jets in about an hour...

     The AC 130 can do 300 MPH.  In case you can't add and divide that's 600 miles in two hours.

    But just jets making low passes would have disrupted the attacks.

    Then again, facts and testimony by people who know what they're talking about trump winger fairy tales every time.  If the reason for your "question" is to truly understand why air support wasn't sent, read their testimony.  It's consistent.

    If the reason for your "question" is to push unsupported wingnut fantasies, keep at it.

    BTW - Not a single link to support your fantasy about a stand down order, despite the numerous people testifying there was no such order?

    Typical.

    Parent

    Then what did Obama tell (1.00 / 1) (#175)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:28:26 PM EST
    his people during the 11PM meeting??

    I mean, is the Washington Post, that well known right wing rag (lol)just making things up??????

    You can twist and turn all you want but the facts are that if actions had started in Sicily when help was requested at 9:40PM and if Obama had said go at 11:30 PM there was plenty of time to get help there.

    I know underlings are supposed to support their boss.

    Now, which one of them told Sicily to stand down???????????????

    THE MILITARY HAD PLENTY OF TIME AND YOU KNOW IT.

    Parent

    STIL no links (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:53:11 PM EST
    ... to support your fantasy?

    Heh, heh, heh ...

    Here's a few more for you from people who know combat operations as opposed to mess halls.

    Major General Darryl Roberson, Vice Director of Operations for the Joint Staff -

    The assets that we had available were Strike Eagles loaded with live weapons that could have responded, but they were located in Djibouti, which is the equivalent of the distance between here [Washington D.C.] and Los Angeles. The other fighters that might have been available were located in Aviano, Italy. They were not loaded with weapons. They were not on an alert status. We would've had to build weapons, load weapons, get tankers to support it, and get it there. There was no way that we were going to be able to do that. Unfortunately, there was not a carrier in the Mediterranean that could have been able to support; the assets that we mobilized immediately were the only assets we had available to try to support.

    Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey - (1) the military asset in Souda Bay, Crete, "wasn't the right tool for the particular threat we faced;" (2) " ... the aircraft were not  among the forces that we had at heightened alert;" and (3) the "boots-on-the ground capabilities" that DoD deployed would have arrived too late, so they did not deploy to Benghazi.

    Dempsey and other top Pentagon officials have previously testified that they could not get commandos or fighter planes into Benghazi in time to save the lives of Amb. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans. There was an unarmed surveillance drone over Benghazi, but Air Force fighters in Italy's Aviano air base lacked refueling tankers to allow them to get to the scene. Special-operations teams in the U.S. and Croatia were initially told to prepare for Benghazi, for a possible hostage-rescue mission, but they ultimately didn't get closer than a staging base in Europe before the attacks ended.

    Facts - so inconvenient when trying to form fairy tales, huh?

    Parent

    No links?? (none / 0) (#180)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 05:23:53 PM EST
    I gave you this link which proved that ample time was available.

    And the time line is what scares you because it can't be hid.

    And do you actually believe this??

    The assets that we had available were Strike Eagles loaded with live weapons that could have responded, but they were located in Djibouti, which is the equivalent of the distance between here [Washington D.C.] and Los Angeles. The other fighters that might have been available were located in Aviano, Italy.

    I love that qualifier. MIGHT. Qualifiers are often used to conceal lies.

    And if he is telling the truth a whole bunch of people should be cashiered out of the military they are terminally unfit.

    BTW - The range of an F22 is 1839 miles with a top speed of 1498... With a cruise speed of around 800 they could have been there on around 40 minutes..

    And even some low passes would have disrupted the attackers.

    Now I have not been able to find out what type of fighters were in Sicily but they wouldn't have been WWI biplanes.

    What all the brass have done is try and cover their behinds. They didn't try.

    Maybe this is why??

    'At today's hearing, Panetta said he informed Obama of the attack when they entered their 5:00 p.m. meeting.

    'That was one hour and 18 minutes after the attack started and while it was ongoing.'

    Panetta said to Senator Kelly Ayotte, that President Obama left operational details for Benghazi 'up to us' - implying that the situation was under the control of Panetta and General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

    'Did you have any further communications with him that night?' Senator Ayotte asked.

    'No,' Panetta replied.

    'Did you have any other further communications? Did he ever call you that night to say how are things going, what's going on, where's the consulate?' she followed-up with.

    'No,' Panetta said in response. 'But we were aware as we were getting information about what was taking place there, particularly when we got information that the ambassador, his life had been lost, we were aware that that information went to the White House.'

    In addition, Panetta admitted to Senator Ayotte that there was no communication with anyone at the White House and that no one from the White House called for an update on the situation

    Obama ran off and hid. He didn't want to be bothered.

    Parent

    A Conservative newspaper (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 05:52:17 PM EST
    Is going to run an article about Benghazi and not blame Obama for what went down.

    Thanks, I needed a good chuckle today.

    Parent

    Recycling wingnut lies (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 06:58:01 PM EST
        In addition, Panetta admitted to Senator Ayotte that there was no communication with anyone at the White House and that no one from the White House called for an update on the situation

    Obama ran off and hid. He didn't want to be bothered.

    Several committee Republicans pressed Panetta and Dempsey about their discussions with President Barack Obama on that fateful day and his level of involvement, suggesting that after the initial conversation the commander in chief was disengaged as Americans died.

    Panetta said he and Dempsey were meeting with Obama when they first learned of the Libya assault. He said the president told them to deploy forces as quickly as possible.

    Link.

    Obama Was In The Oval Office During Attacks. A photo that has been available for over a year on the White House Flikr page shows President Obama in the Oval Office during the September 2012 attacks

    BTW - The range of an F22 is 1839 miles with a top speed of 1498... With a cruise speed of around 800 they could have been there on around 40 minutes..

    And even some low passes would have disrupted the attackers.

    Really?  We should take your word over the people with experience planning and executing actual combat missions?  Did they disrupt the lines at the mess?

    Now I have not been able to find out what type of fighters were in Sicily but they wouldn't have been WWI biplanes.

    So, IOW, we have sworn testimony from senior military officers who say there were no armed fighter available and unarmed passes would have done nothing, versus ..

    ... you.

    Heh.

    Parent

    BTW - Your silly link (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 07:03:39 PM EST
    ... says absolutely nothing about their being "plenty of time" for air support.  That is simply your silly, specious claim based on zero evidence combined with a naive math equation displaying an embarrassingly uneducated idea of combat air operations.

    verus...

    Sworn testimony from our military officers who actually know what they're talking about.

    Not a hard call.

    Parent

    Before anyone can snark (1.00 / 1) (#174)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:19:55 PM EST
    The time was ONLY 5 hours and 20 minutes...

    Plenty of time to save two lives and prevent two serious woundings.

    Parent

    You can't argue (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:08:34 PM EST
    with a guy who thinks 3,000 dead on 9/11 means the GOP is good on "national defense."

    Parent
    Shall we talk about Pearl Harbor?? (1.00 / 1) (#142)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:06:59 PM EST
    I wouldn't talk about Pearl (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:14:14 PM EST
    She packs iron and she will kick your a$$ before you can say BENGHAAAAAAAZIIIIIIII!!!!!!

    Parent
    I'm sure we'll hear all about it from you . . . (none / 0) (#20)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:34:31 PM EST
    me, I'll be spending my time celebrating the 50th anniversary of the wilderness act :)

    Parent
    I hope you watched (3.00 / 2) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 10:16:17 PM EST
    There was no politics.

    Just a detailed account of what happened described by three men that were there.

    A few things are clear.

    1. If the contractors had been let go to rescue the ambassador immediately it is likely no one would have died.

    2. Instead they were told to stand down by the CIA chief for some 30 minutes. Parsing and dodging cannot hide the truth that shown through from these three men.

    3. Someone must make the CIA say why they were delayed.

    4. By the time they arrived it was too late for the ambassador.

    5. They returned and set up a defense. If air power had been provided when requested no one else would have died.

    6. It is imperative to find out why air support wasn't launched. Mistakes were made that cannot be allowed to happen again.

    Most of the anger that I have felt about this is not over these mistakes. They happen. Let's correct them.  

    My anger has been towards Obama and Rice for lying about the cause because they feared a political reaction.

    Disgusting.


    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 10:36:35 PM EST
    Fox News is in hard-core BENGHAZI! mode again, but the interesting part of this round of stupid is that a new book shatters their 2-year old narrative.

    In Fox News land, Hillary Clinton, or possibly the White House, depending on what day it is, issued a stand down order. What really happened, according to three of the co-authors of 13 Hours: The Inside Account of What Really Happened in Benghazi, is that the CIA station chief requested a pause while he tried to enlist Libyan local security teams to assist in the embassy defense.

    In order to successfully counterspin the book, Fox is hosting a one-hour special tonight to build their own propaganda before the truth emerges about how much they've lied to their audience.

    Speaking to Bret Baier on Thursday, the three co-authors told a story that contradicts everything Fox has insinuated over the last two years.

    Word of the attack on the diplomatic compound reached the CIA annex just after 9:30 p.m. Within five minutes, the security team at the annex was geared up for battle, and ready to move to the compound, a mile away.

    "Five minutes, we're ready," said Paronto, a former Army Ranger. "It was thumbs up, thumbs up, we're ready to go."

    But the team was held back. According to the security operators, they were delayed from responding to the attack by the top CIA officer in Benghazi, whom they refer to only as "Bob."


    That's the CIA station chief. The one they've been using to bolster their claim that Hillary gave the stand down order. The one who whined about being left out of the CIA drafting of their talking points which Susan Rice then used to appear on the Sunday shows that weekend.

    That station chief acted on his own, claiming that he wanted to get local Libyans to back up the security team. So yes, there was a stand down order issued, but it came from inside the CIA stationed inside Libya.

    Fox News is desperately trying to move the goalposts before people wake up and figure out what they're doing. They'll use the catchphrase "stand down" to ring a familiar bell while ignoring the fact that the order came from the CIA officer in charge of the Benghazi mission security.



    Parent
    And with that feeding time is over (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 10:42:47 PM EST
    Nom nom nom

    Parent
    The show made no claims (none / 0) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:25:14 AM EST
    it merely reported what was said.

    Here is a chance for you and Yman to demonstrate that you want the truth instead of dancing on the dead in order protect your leaders.

    Do you or don't you want to know who told the CIA chief to not dispatch the rescue squad.

    Remember. They were very close and ready to go.

    And why wasn't air cover dispatched?  Who failed there?

    I don't think either of you want the truth. I think you are afraid of the truth.

    Parent

    "Afraid" - heh (none / 0) (#121)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:07:43 PM EST
    Why would anyone be afraid of debunked, winger conspiracy theories that have already been debunked numerous times.

    Some facts as opposed to "questions".

    Armed Service Committee Report

    As the result of a specific request from the committee, DOD accounted for the location of each of its AC-130 aircraft in the military's inventory. DOD reported to the committee that no AC-130s were in the region in the days before the Benghazi attack, including for maintenance, crew rest, or merely transiting through the area. However,DOD alsoreported to the committee that some of these planes were deployed to "southern Europe" on September 14, in order "to support operations in North Africa."  Similarly, the
    U.S. Air Force F-16 fighters stationed at Aviano, Italy at the time were configured for training flights. None were on combat alert.  Furthermore,
    unlike typical preparations during the Cold War, NATO allies also had no planes on war-fighting status. This meant other nations could not offer combat aircraft to respond on behalf of the United States...

    V.  There was no "stand down" order issued to U.S. military personnel in Tripoli who sought to join the fight in Benghazi.


    Senate Intelligence Committee Report

    Two armored vehicles were prepared so the security team could respond from the
    Annex. Approximately 20-25 minutes after the first call came into the Annex that the Temporary Mission Facility was under attack, a security team left the Annex for the Mission compound.  During the period between approximately 9:40 and 10:03 p.m. Benghazi time, the Chief of Base and security team members attempted to secure the assistance and heavy weapons (such as .50 calibre truck-mounted machine guns) from the 17th February Brigade and other militias that had been assisting the United States...

    The Committee explored claims that there was a "stand down" order given to the security team at the Annex.  Although some members of the security team expressed frustration that they were unable to respond more quickly to the Mission compund, the Committee found no evidence of intentional delay or obstruction by the Chief of Base or any other party.

    Conclusions back by numerous senior CIA officials and nine senior military officers who testified.

    As opposed to ...

    ... specious, unsupported "questions".

    Parent

    I couldn't agree more (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 10:39:52 PM EST
    All those lies.

    Truly disgusting.

    Parent

    I guess (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 06:06:20 PM EST
    he forgot that even the house and Daryl Issa has given up on this one.

    It's all about trying to ramp up the troops who I'm guessing are afraid they're going to sit home in November.

    But hey, when you've got a fleece the rubes operation going, no use to stop it as long as they're going to keep buying.

    Parent

    Yeah, those rubes are tired of being (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 06:12:42 PM EST
    lied to.

    Parent
    No they're not (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 06:29:22 PM EST
    You guys need a good conspiracy theory to keep the troops riled up.

    And Bush spent years lying to you and you make excuses for him so you have absolutely proven that you loved being lied to.

    The tea partiers have fallen for hoax after hoax when it comes to this stuff. Fleecing the rubes has become a very profitable operation. Why should they give up such easy money? There's a reason why people like you are a target for those gold shysters. LOL.

    Parent

    You wear your hatred for all non Demos (1.00 / 1) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 08:59:42 PM EST
    like a badge of honor.

    Really, you've become a bore.

    Parent

    Thanks (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 03:18:09 PM EST
    for confirming that anybody who doesn't buy into your conspiracy theories hates people "not like them" The irony is I think you're projecting because that's pretty much the tea party mentality.

    Parent
    Let me guess (none / 0) (#23)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:54:02 PM EST
    It was Obama in the War Room watching what was going on and refusing to send any help there.

    Parent
    You just can't help yourself can you (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 04:56:40 PM EST
    I see a board game in your future . . . (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:23:37 PM EST
    Yup (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by sj on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:29:54 PM EST
    I went there before I even saw your comment.

    Parent
    I'm so glad you read it as I did :P (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 11:43:25 PM EST
    It could be a money maker? Taking classic board games and using GOP hysteria to rewrite them . . . .

    Benghazi! The newest party game! . . . Oy, wish I could remember the scripts to some of those cheesy commercials. This comment would be much more creative if I could, I promise, lol!~

    Parent

    Left foot on Hillary, (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:47:34 AM EST
    right hand on the CIA, that's Bengazi Twister, from the Milton Tea company.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 4) (#48)
    by sj on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 07:29:12 PM EST
    I think it was the Professor in the Library with a candlestick.

    Parent
    Hey, tune in and find out! (1.00 / 1) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 06:14:17 PM EST
    No charge for the education.

    lol

    Parent

    Educational (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 06:48:32 PM EST
    And a report on Fox News aren't even on the same planet.

    IMHO

    Parent

    You can watch the people speak (1.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 05, 2014 at 09:01:39 PM EST
    I mean you're an expert on people lying... maybe you can vet them.

    If you dare to face the truth.

    Gotta go. It's coming on...

    Parent

    Jim...everybody lies... (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by fishcamp on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 10:11:55 AM EST
    Maybe in your world (1.00 / 1) (#116)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:53:52 AM EST
    but not in mine.

    Parent
    Hahaah (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:05:40 PM EST
    Caught in the act Red Handed..

    pants on fire...

    Parent

    It re-airs... (none / 0) (#82)
    by unitron on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:53:36 AM EST
    ...Saturday at 5AM, 5PM, and 9PM EDT, Sunday at 12AM, 8PM, and 11PM EDT

    Parent
    State Department ISIS Recruitment Parody (none / 0) (#126)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:22:17 PM EST
    released today.

    The link is to an article about the one minute video.  In the article is a link to the actual video, which is pretty gross.  Shootings.  Crucifictions.  Post decapitation scene.

    Maybe parody is the wrong word.  Cognitive dissonance meltdown, maybe.

    "crucifictions" I with I tould tedit. (none / 0) (#128)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 12:24:25 PM EST
    Here's a link to the Snopes (none / 0) (#149)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 01:55:57 PM EST
    website about the Benghazi myths, with links and all that kind of stuff that real liberals call facts:

    The U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence's 15 January 2014 review of the attacks on U.S. facilities in Benghazi viewed video footage documenting the dispatch of a security team to the Mission compound within 20-25 minutes of the first report of the attack, and they found that no "stand down" orders were issued to the security team at the Annex:

    After the Diplomatic Security (DS) agent in the Tactical Operations Center at the Temporary Mission Facility alerted the Annex security team that TMF was under attack at 9:40, the Chief of Base called the [redacted] "who advised that he would immediately deploy a force to provide assistance," according to a September 19, 2012, cable.

    Two armored vehicles were prepared so the security team could respond from the Annex. Approximately 20-25 minutes after the first call came into the Annex that the Temporary Mission Facility (TMF) was under attack, a security team left the Annex for the Mission compound. In footage taken from the Annex's security cameras, the security team can be observed departing the CIA Annex at 10:03 p.m. Benghazi time.

    The team drove to the Mission facility and made their way onto the Mission compound in the face of enemy fire, arriving in the vicinity of the compound at approximately 10:10 p.m. Benghazi time. The Committee explored claims that there was a "stand down" order given to the security team at the Annex. Although some members of the security team expressed frustration that they were unable to respond more quickly to the Mission compound, 12 the Committee found no evidence of intentional delay or obstruction by the Chief of Base or any other party.



    In impugning the literacy of some commentators here.

     the Committee found no evidence of intentional delay or obstruction by the Chief of Base or any other party.


    Parent

    New Witness confirms again Hands Up (none / 0) (#162)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 03:17:33 PM EST
    New witness in Michael Brown shooting says teenager had his hands up while he was gunned down and disputes that he charged Officer Wilson

    [He] turned to see Brown running away from Wilson's squad car.

    The officer was 10 to 15 feet behind and chased Brown down the street, the man said.

    About 90 feet away from the car, Wilson fired another shot while Brown had his back to him, the witness told the Post-Dispatch.

    Brown stumbled, apparently wounded.

    He turned around with his hands up, repeating 'OK' over and over.

    Wilson was about 10 feet from Brown when the teenager began to move.

    'He's kind of walking back toward the cop,' the witness told the Post-Dispatch, noting Brown still had his hands up.

    The cop began to move away from the teenager and opened fire.

    Brown's hands began to go down after the third shot.

    Wilson continued to fire as he backed away.

    But wait (none / 0) (#165)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 03:22:10 PM EST
    You won't believe the Daily Mail's sources on man made global warming......

    Why do you believe this obviously biased witness??

    Oh. I see. It's your bias.

    No shame in that. We all have them.

    lol

    Parent

    Wait (none / 0) (#182)
    by whitecap333 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 05:29:07 PM EST
    My browser is acting up.  This is intended as a reply to jimakaPPJ's comment above about the new witness found by the Post-Dispatch.  The Daily-Mail version of what he has to say is partisan damage control.  This witness blows Wilson's accusers out of the water.  For a less "massaged" version of the interview, go to "Workers who were witnesses provide new perspective on Michael Brown shooting," in today's online Post-Dispatch.  (I can't post links.)  

    Parent
    New Witness (none / 0) (#176)
    by whitecap333 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 04:39:40 PM EST
    According to the Post-Dispatch, this new witness says "After the third shot, Brown's hands started going down, and he moved about 25 ft. toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing."  As indicated in the comment above, a distance of about 10 ft. separated the two when Brown began advancing on Wilson, and the latter began firing.  It is not immediately apparent why, from a dead stop, 25 ft. would be required to "stumble," helplessly, to the ground.  So, no headlong "bum rush" but, in view of the altercation that had just occurred at the squad car, Wilson shouldn't have much difficulty in making a showing that he felt threatened, despite Brown's initial raising of the hands.

    Parent
    25 feet?? (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 06:56:30 PM EST
    he moved about 25 ft. toward Wilson

    That's probably a missprint. It should probably be 2-5 feet, as that is what another witness said -- he took a step of two and then started to go down.

    Which brings us to this question:

    Why, after being shot at for running away, would anyone think it offensive for the chasee to then stop, turn around, and walk back to the officer shooting at him??? and not just that but hands in the air and saying "okay -- okay".

    What part of that calls for the officer to fire 10 more shots, 7 more as he is visibly falling on the 3rd one???

    And how does any of this help Wilson???

    Parent

    New Post-Dispatch Editor (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by whitecap333 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 07:36:18 PM EST
    No, 25 feet, since Wilson and Brown were separated by a distance of only 10 feet when the latter began to advance on the former--at what rate of speed I know not, and neither do you.  This was hardly a casual confrontation.  It must be evaluated in the context of a most serious incident at the squad car.  Your star witness, Dorian, says he saw blood spatter.  

    Parent
    I'm having a math problem (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 07:57:06 PM EST
    If W&B are 10ft apart, how does B advance 25ft on W?

    Who's blood spattered at this 'most serious incident at the squad car'?

    Parent

    Math (none / 0) (#202)
    by whitecap333 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 08:59:31 PM EST
    As Brown advanced, Wilson retreated, backwards.

    If we are to believe Dorian, it was Brown's blood that spattered, when the shot was fired at or in the squad car.

    We seem to have reached the 200 comment limit.  

    Parent

    This was hardly a casual confrontation. (5.00 / 0) (#199)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 08:14:43 PM EST
    This was hardly a casual confrontation.

    Yeh -- a confrontation initiated by Wilson twice, escalated  by Wilson twice, and made bloody  by Wilson, and then made deadly by Wilson after 11 shots.

    He started it, escalated it and made sure it was fatal.

    And to you that's good police work???

    Parent

    3rd of the 6 shots (none / 0) (#188)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 06:29:25 PM EST
    "After the third shot, Brown's hands started going down, and he moved about 25 ft. toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing."

    So that would be the third shot out of that first volley of 6 that we heard before the final 4 kill shots???

    His hands are up and he is walking back toward Wilson as Wilson is either telling him to do or he thinks Wilson wants him to do,

    "Hands Up and walk toward me"

    After all they are now 120 feet from the SUV.

    Then Wilson fires and the 3rd shot of his 6 shot volley hit him and his hands fall from the pain of the bullet.

    How is this good for Wilson???

    Parent

    Too Close for Comfort (none / 0) (#191)
    by whitecap333 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 06:51:16 PM EST
    Because Brown began advancing towards Wilson from a distance of only 10 ft., and continued that advance for 25 ft.  And you are proposing that Wilson invited that advance?  No, I can't produce a witness to affirm that Wilson instructed Brown to "Get on the ground," as would be usual procedure, but I think it safe enough to suppose he will so testify.

    It is of no consequence what might have been going through Brown's mind.  The determinative factor is whether a reasonable law enforcement officer, in Wilson's situation, would have felt threatened.

    Parent

    Walking towards (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 07:14:17 PM EST
    You mean "walking towards" right???

    When you're 300 pounds and have just run 120 feet in flippy shoes with bullets whizzing past and some hitting you, you are not going to turn around and charge the gun.

    I am awestruck that walking back to a cop with your hands in the air saying "okay-okay" to a cop who has been firing at you would be considered threatening.

    Parent

    Crazy video of (none / 0) (#203)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 11:13:08 PM EST
    First season finale (none / 0) (#206)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 07, 2014 at 06:23:09 PM EST
    Of Leftovers and final season premier of Boardwalk Empire

    TONIGHT

    this thread is closed (none / 0) (#207)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Sep 07, 2014 at 08:00:35 PM EST
    there's a new open thread up.