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Friday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 08:30:46 AM EST
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The attack in Mali at the Radisson Blu hotel in Bamako, seems to be the work of an al-Qaida affiliated group -- most likely Ansar Dine. Its leader Iyad Ag Ghaly called for attacks on France this week. France has forces in Mali assisting the anti-terror fight. More on the leader here.

The attack was at an international hotel filled with foreigners. The gunmen spoke English but shouted "Allahu Akbar." Three people are dead as of now, but they may be gunmen not hostages. 80 have been freed. Mali special forces stormed in. U.S. Special Operations forces are reportedly assisting.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Dabiq #12: A Soda Can and John Cantlie | Brussels on Lockdown, Imminent and Specific Terror Threat >

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    Friday Open Thread | 205 comments (205 topical)
    I Am Tired About Discussing the Worst.. (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 09:49:18 AM EST
    ...in people.

    So here is my installation of the best in people:
    One more... (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 02:54:03 PM EST
    on the uplifting side, honor among thieves edition...

    Two Virginia car thieves discover a little boy in the back seat of the car they just jacked, so they dropped him off at school.

    Parent

    That is So Nice... (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:51:42 PM EST
    ...did you read the descriptions, you can tell it was the description a 8 year old would give.  I say cut the guys some slack, they dropped the kid off for school, they can't be all bad.

    Parent
    OT: advice needed. I may go (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:27:33 PM EST
    to St. Ann's Warehouse on Water St. in Brooklyn for Henry IV.  Ben Brantley gave it s great review. Donmar Warehouse production. Starts at 7 pm. Plan to get there via "F" and 10 min. walk. Query:  ok for an unaccompanied female of a certain age to go back by the same method?  Suggestions?  Thanks. I already bought a play ticket!

    Parent
    That's Hipsterville USA... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:53:18 PM EST
    I think you'll be fine, unless skinny jeans and outrageous facial hair scares ya!

    It looks spookier than it is down by the Brooklyn side of the bridges, worst case catch a short cab to the subway station if not all the way back to NYC proper.

    Parent

    Thanks. I have gone to Bargemusic (none / 0) (#81)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:09:04 PM EST
    under the bridge.

    This will be a new adventure. Of course, my daughter in SD is worried even when I am rambling around Manhattan. I told her the opera was wanding everyone !

    Parent

    Funny how that works... (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 05:24:15 PM EST
    you worry about us for the first 20, then we worry about each other for the duration.

    My moms is off to St. Lucia tomorrow and I'm on the phone with her today.."Don't forget your medicine Mom, don't forget your passport Mom, don't be too proud to ask for a golf cart ride to the gate if your ankle is bothering you Mom". What a nag I am!

    Parent

    Agree with Kdog. You should be perfectly safe. (none / 0) (#112)
    by vml68 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 09:57:28 PM EST
    If you are feeling energetic, you can always walk the Brooklyn Bridge back to Manhattan. There are usually plenty of people/tourists even at night. Just stay out of the bike lanes!

    Parent
    Here's some good news... (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by desertswine on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:54:37 PM EST
    the endangered Delmarva Fox Squirrel has sufficiently recovered enough to soon come off of the endangered species list.  Wahoo!  

    Parent
    Yes! (none / 0) (#43)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 01:57:25 PM EST


    Parent
    I'm sick of reading, hearing and talking about (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 11:02:51 AM EST
    Muslims and radical Islamists.  I'm sickened by the reaction to the plight of Syrian refugees, the ignorance exhibited by people who are getting their "information" from sources that seem to have a pre-determined agenda.  If I never heard the names "Donald Trump" or "Ben Carson" again, it would be too soon.  I'm tired of people who think war is the answer to violence and death.  I don't understand people who think it helps people to deepen their poverty.  I'm done with people who think their religion should control my life, and of people who still think life was better when women were chattel.

    Time to start clearing the ugliness out my head, and filling it with something better and happier.  Recipes!  Thanksgiving Dinner timeline!  Grocery lists!  The aromas of sage and thyme, of onions and celery, of turkey skin crisping, of cinnamon and pumpkin.  

    If the world blows up before Thanksgiving , I guess all the cooking I'm going to be doing will be for naught, but otherwise, I intend to cook like a fiend, enjoy the time with family and friends, give thanks for all the many blessings in my life, and say a prayer for those less fortunate here and around the world.  I intend to laugh a lot, eat more than I should, watch football, play with my grandchildren, and not feel guilty about sleeping in.

    All that other stuff?  Fk it.  For now, anyway.  Hell, knowing me, I'll be lucky to make it through the day trying to be blissfully ignorant, but sometimes, you just have to try.

    Me too. (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 11:22:14 AM EST
    I read a long time ago that people were happier when they just focused on their own communities and families.

    It's been interesting though. I have seen a number of conservative friends breaking with the GOP over this issue.

    You can chose for America to be the land of the brave or you can choose for it to be the land of conservative bed wetters. I would rather live in the land of the brave. Conservatives can continue to hide under the bed but if you're brave you just carry on with your life and don't let events stop you. Look at the French? They are brave and strong.

    Parent

    I saw one this morning (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:15:22 PM EST
    A conservative I mean, who came here as a child refugee from the Soviet Union.   She explained that was then and things have changed.

    Yep,  what's changed is that you have a home and someone else needs one.   It was a pretty amazing performance.

    This is the perfect issue for demagogues.  

    A senate person said if the democrats try to block it the will "crucify" them.    Interesting choice of words.

    Parent

    Conservatism nowadays can be defined ... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 01:45:56 PM EST
    ... as the art of subsequently raising those drawbridges over which one has already crossed.

    Parent
    Interestingly (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:40:15 PM EST
    enough the GOP is now openly being compared to the Third Reich with this demagoguery. Talk of not only not allowing refugees but statements about having them register with the government and be tracked. You know, fundamentalist Christians have perpetuated terror too but no one ever suggested tracking them.

    Parent
    Yes, Making Muslims... (none / 0) (#41)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 01:11:43 PM EST
    ...second class citizens will surely make America safer because apparently ID badges will keep people from blowing S up.

    Parent
    Yes, yes ...again and again! (none / 0) (#45)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 01:58:47 PM EST


    Parent
    The Ringling Brothers and Donald and Ben Circus (none / 0) (#32)
    by jondee on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:22:43 PM EST
    they should come out on stage at the next debate in one of those little mini-cars the Shriners use..

    Donald can be the mean clown who hits and Ben can be the sad sack clown..

    Parent

    Nice turn (none / 0) (#87)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:33:23 PM EST
    of phrase....Does sound like the original....

    Parent
    Yes, again! (none / 0) (#44)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 01:57:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Per Atrios (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 02:19:13 PM EST
    Lindsey Gets One Right

    "I don't think we should be promoting Judeo-Christian values in the Arab world," Graham told Real Clear Politics in an interview. "I think that was the Crusades." link

    Duh

    Not to nitpick.. (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by jondee on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:56:42 PM EST
    but the Crusades weren't about promoting "values", they were about taking possession of the Holy Land (so-called), protecting pilgrims -- and about killing as many Muslim and Jewish infidels along the way as they could.

    Parent
    And Eastern Orthodox Christians, too. (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 06:28:16 PM EST
    Launching a Crusade proved to be an enormous and very expensive undertaking, and during the Fourth Crusade (1202-04), Catholic northern European Venetian crusaders were diverted from their quest to regain the Holy Land due to financial considerations. As a means to partially recoup their investments and refinance their expedition to Palestine, they decided that Constantinople presented a much more tempting and lucrative target than did Jerusalem at this juncture. The city was summarily attacked and sacked, the Emperor Alexius III fled into exile, and the Byzantine Empire never really recovered from that entirely unprovoked body blow.

    Parent
    Well, not really (none / 0) (#103)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 08:01:31 PM EST
    The Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression -- an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian lands.By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

    That is what gave birth to the Crusades.

    Parent

    Uh, no. (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 08:21:01 PM EST
    Half of Asia Minor was still in Byzantine hands at the time the First Crusade was launched in 1096, as well as most of southeastern Europe. Empires have risen and fallen throughout history, and the Byzantine Empire was no different. The Crusades were wars of conquest -- or in most cases, attempted conquest. Religion was simply used as an excuse.

    Parent
    Trevor (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by jondee on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:47:06 PM EST
    the pogroms perpetrated on the way to the Holy Land were defensive?

    Or was it that the Crusaders were brotherly to their fellow man in every other way besides needlessly slaughtering Jews?

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#120)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 05:50:04 AM EST
    Who said they were? I never stated that.

     In November 1095, at the Council of Clermont in southern France, the pope called on Western Christians to take up arms in order to aid the Byzantines and recapture the Holy Land from Muslim control. Pope Urban's plea met with a tremendous response, both among lower levels of the military elite (who would form a new class of knights) as well as ordinary citizens; it was determined that those who joined the armed pilgrimage would wear a cross as a symbol of the Church.

    The Crusades were began as a war to RECAPTURE land taken land taken by the Muslims. It came fter a persistent 300 year Muslim expansion.

    Parent

    What (none / 0) (#121)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 06:48:02 AM EST
    gave the Byzantines the right to "own" those lands in the first place? They merely inherited their dominion from the Roman empire.

    Parent
    It's called (1.00 / 1) (#132)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 12:20:42 PM EST
    "I was here first."

    And is a very very old right.

    But, if you don't believe in that send me your address so I can throw you out of your house and use it as I desire.

    Parent

    Better yet, (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by MO Blue on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 12:53:34 PM EST
    Under your "They Were Here First philosophy," please send your address to the Native American tribe(s) that lived in your area so that they can evict you from your residence and assume their rightful ownership.

    Parent
    I have often commented that (none / 0) (#139)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 02:42:45 PM EST
    the NA's lack of response is a dramatic example of what should NOT be done.

    But since they did not and lost what's mine is  mine and I am not as generous as they were.

    ;-)

    Parent

    But (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 02:56:17 PM EST
    if the NA's were to act like the Crusaders and come and murder your family to reclaim their land would they be justified? By your rationale they would be.

    It's always might makes right with you.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#143)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 03:08:56 PM EST
    That was the cause the Crusades were organized for, to reclaim lands that were lost due to 300 years of Moslem expansion.

    That part seems to get lost in discussions regarding the Crusades.

    Parent

    You (none / 0) (#145)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 03:33:44 PM EST
    originally stated
    The Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars.
    you were wrong.

    So now you throw some "lost facts" straw around. Everybody school child knows that the Crusades were organized to take back the Holy Lands from the Muslims.

    Funny thing is, the Christians never even owned it in the first place.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#151)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 04:29:32 PM EST
    The Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars.

    They weren't wars set out to conquer new lands,
    Nitpicking over the word defensive,

    Like I said, the 300 year Muslim conquering and  expansion never gets mentioned in the Crusades discussion. No straw there.
    Just thought some may have forgotten it.

    I apologize if it upsets your narrative,
    The Crusades were ugly and brutal wars, as was the 300 year expansion by the Muslims.

    Parent

    Why didn't they own it? (none / 0) (#159)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 07:19:21 PM EST
    If they didn't, who did??

    They were there. They were attacked and lost it to the Muslims. The Christians attacked to take it back.

    And thus stop the expansion.

    That's defensive.

    Parent

    Your history is (none / 0) (#163)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 09:22:05 PM EST
    twisted as usual.

    395: Roman Empire splits into East and West.

    1. Birth of Muhammad.

    2. Persians capture Jerusalem,

    3. Muhammad escapes assassination in Mecca and flees to Medina, his flight marking first year of Islamic calendar.

    4. Emperor Heraclius I re-establishes Byzantine rule in Jerusalem and recovers True Cross stolen by Persians.

    5. Islamic forces conquer Jerusalem, beginning rule by succession of Arab dynasties.
    Link

    So the Byzantine empire ruled for around two centuries before the Persians came and reclaimed what they had also  previously "owned", before the Greeks and the original Roman empire but after the Babylonians. With various Jewish Kings and of varying power interspersed.  

    Then a mere 16 years after the founding of the faith, begins a 4 century+ Islamic rule of Jerusalem. That can hardly be called part of an expansion, more like  an origin point.

    You and Trevor keep insisting that once an empire claims dominion over a land it somehow retains some "ownership" even centuries after it has lost control. That's ludicrous.

    Parent

    Good grief you are the one for making stuff up (1.00 / 2) (#168)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 10:32:39 PM EST
    My point has always been the same. Now watch my lips:

    You own what you can defend.

    And if you lose it then you have the right to try and take it.

    That's been going on forever and ever and ever.

    BTW, and not that it matters, the claim is that the Crusaders were trying to take back.

    622: Muhammad escapes assassination in Mecca and flees to Medina, his flight marking first year of Islamic calendar.

    629: Emperor Heraclius I re-establishes Byzantine rule in Jerusalem and recovers True Cross stolen by Persians.

    Islamic rule

    638: Islamic forces conquer Jerusalem, beginning rule by succession of Arab dynasties.

    661-1000: Palestine variously ruled by Arab caliphs in Damascus, Baghdad and Cairo.

    1. Dome of the Rock completed on Temple Mount.

    2. Sultan al-Hakim destroys Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

    3. Church of the Holy Sepulchre restored by Emperor Constantine Monomachus.

    4. Great Schism splits Christian Church into Eastern (Greek) and Western (Latin) branches.

    5. Seljuk Turks capture Jerusalem, persecuting Christians, desecrating churches and barring pilgrims.

    6. First Crusade captures Jerusalem and establishes Latin kingdom; Dome of the Rock becomes church called Templum Domini (Temple of the Lord).

    7. New Church of the Holy Sepulchre completed.

    8. Sultan Saladin defeats Crusaders at Horns of Hattin above Sea of Galilee, then takes Jerusalem.

    Islamic rule again

    1. St Francis of Assisi visits Egypt and meets Sultan Melek al-Kamil.

    2. During Sixth Crusade, Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II negotiates return of Jerusalem and other Christian sites to Crusader kingdom.

    Is it your point that the Crusaders attacks justify the murders committed by radical islamists? I mean I know you want to find some excuse but isn't something that happened 1400 years or so ago a bit of a reach??

    Parent

    Please show me (none / 0) (#164)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 09:31:35 PM EST
    Trevor keep insisting that once an empire claims dominion over a land it somehow retains some "ownership" even centuries after it has lost control

    Where I have ever said that?
    Why do you , and others always make things up, when I never said anything like that.

    All I ever said is that the reason of the Crusades was to reclaim land conquered by the Muslims.

    On November 27, 1095, Pope Urban II makes perhaps the most influential speech of the Middle Ages, giving rise to the Crusades by calling all Christians in Europe to war against Muslims in order to reclaim the Holy Land, with a cry of "Deus vult!" or "God wills it!"

    That was the reason for the beginning of the Crusades. So, if the Muslims had not taken the land during the prior 300 years, we might never had the Crusades. Just keeping things in perspective.

    Parent

    Trevor it is what they do (1.00 / 2) (#167)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 10:19:21 PM EST
    because they suspect you of not being a 100% pure Leftie.

    Parent
    Jim (none / 0) (#169)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 11:24:04 PM EST
    says it you infer it, you keep saying reclaim as if after 400 years some kind of original claim exists.

    When you say

    They weren't wars set out to conquer new lands,
     you seem to be asserting to that these lands already belonged to the Crusaders, or at least to their Byzantine brothers in Christ.

    We're probably just arguing semantics here, but you want to fold it into the ridiculous argument of the Crusades being a defensive reaction.

    I am not ignoring the 450 years of Muslim expansion, neither does anybody else with a passing knowledge of the period, but the true front line of the expansion at the time was in Spain.

    For all intents and purposes the Holy land was part of the birthplace of Islam rather then a territory captured by them. The very creation of Islam involved quickly dominating most of the middle east within  decades not the centuries of expansion you name as a probable cause of the Crusades.

    The crusades were an offensive war launched against a relatively peaceful population a stable and "ancient" part of the Islamic empire mostly because of the religious significance of the territory.

    Parent

    Hmmm, you have some difficulties with facts (1.00 / 1) (#190)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 11:25:53 AM EST
    "The crusades were an offensive war launched against a relatively peaceful population a stable and "ancient" part of the Islamic empire mostly because of the religious significance of the territory."

    Now let me see. According to the link, the Muslims had held the lands some 400 years.

    Then in 1071 that "peaceful population" attacked.

    "Seljuk Turks capture Jerusalem, persecuting Christians, desecrating churches and barring pilgrims."

    Do you think that might have made the Pope a bit nervous?

    The First Crusade was launched in 1099. That is 26 years after the Turks had captured Jerusalem in 1071. And yes the city was, is and will remain, of great religious significance to Muslims, Jews and Christians.

    So your claim that the Crusades were offensive is wrong. They were a defensive response to the Muslims attack. Of course anyone agreeing to Obama's very stupid and dangerous ROE's will say that any attack on radical Muslims is offensive.

    As to:

    "For all intents and purposes the Holy land was part of the birthplace of Islam"

    The birthplace of Islam is Mecca. The prophet, having no success there went to Medina and launched attack after attack on populations demanding convert or die.

    Maybe that's were the "Narcos" got their "Silver or lead."

    Obviously "The Religion of Peace" wasn't so peaceful back then....or now.

    And Jerusalem is 666 miles from Mecca. A considerable distance now. A very very long way back then.

    Parent

    The story of this earth (none / 0) (#144)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 03:25:18 PM EST
    is filled with people taking land away from other people. It's what we do.

    Read the book.

    Might does not always make right. But it does win.

    And, in the end, that is the important thing for your people and your society. It is only when you decide that your people and your society is better does "justification" come in.

    Was the US a better society that the Soviets? I think so. But those who lost their pensions with the collapse of the USSR would probably disagree.

    Is western civilization better than that pushed by the radical islamists? I think so. You may disagree. At the least you will probably push some moral equivalency argument.

    So the issue is this. Can we hold on to what has proven to be the current best country and most free society versus a crop of people dedicated to 7th century morals??

    Well, can we??

    Even better. Do you think we should?

    Parent

    Why do people use "we" (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 03:37:21 PM EST
    When what they mean is "I"?

    Parent
    In this case it is because it (none / 0) (#149)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 04:14:52 PM EST
    is the correct and proper word to use.

    Now, do you have an actual point you want to make??

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 01:02:05 PM EST
    considering that the  Canaanites, Hebrews, Babylonians,Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, and Romans "were there first", your "very old right" does not exist.

     

    Parent

    California (none / 0) (#137)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 01:15:19 PM EST
    Texas and Florida were "owned" by Spain before The United States even existed, would it be their "right" to take them back?

    Parent
    FlJoe (none / 0) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 02:46:37 PM EST
    Uh, you deliberately misunderstand.

    Being their first gives you the right to own it and the right to defend that ownership.

    As the NA's and the others learned, Open Borders is a sure ticket to losing.

    On a more scholarly note I urge you read "The Contested Plains." I can't remember the author but it was published by the U of Kansas press.

    Parent

    typo alert - 'there" not "their" (none / 0) (#141)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 02:47:31 PM EST


    Parent
    Time lag (none / 0) (#104)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 08:13:53 PM EST
    between A and B.....

    Parent
    Yeah, like three centuries. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 08:22:29 PM EST
    :-D

    Parent
    A different era (none / 0) (#107)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 08:26:04 PM EST
    Things moved slower,

    The Caliphate expanded for 300 years, until the Crusades were launched to RETAKE lands that had been Christian

    Key word...Retake

    Was not an expansion

    Parent

    Good for Lindsey. (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:25:02 PM EST
    Now, he should kick off his slippers, sit back on his (heated) veranda, and sip his mint julep.

    Parent
    This will definitely (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:38:00 PM EST
    Raise his poll numbers above 1%

    Parent
    Based on what seems to be (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:57:02 PM EST
    Influencing Republican voters, he will probably drop down to 0% based on that comment. They appear to prefer messages that give them permission to shout their racist comments at full force rather than continue to utter them among themselves.

    Regardless, I'm glad that at least one Republican, even a war hawk like Lindsey, made that comment.

    Parent

    He's got his work cut out for (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by jondee on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:00:32 PM EST
    him promoting Judeo-Christian values in the hearts of Christian church goers.

    Parent
    Funny (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:34:25 PM EST
    That the guy who tried to be the most militaristic one in the pack ends up being the designated driver.

    Maybe not exactly funny......

    Parent

    fishcamp (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:09:39 PM EST
    Exciting news!

    Monday morning it's predicted to drop below 70 degrees here for the first time in 7 months. It will only be for an hour or so at sunrise, but still something to cherish.

    After all, with 2014 being the hottest year on record; October of this year being the hottest October on record; November currently way ahead of the hottest November on record; 2015 again on pace to top 2014 as the hottest year on record....69 sounds awfully good.

    With a little luck it will find its way down A1A to you for at least a few minutes.

    Happy fishing!

    Be Careful for What You Wish For... (none / 0) (#60)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:22:54 PM EST
    ...in the 40's here on Sunday and it's coming for you.

    Our fall, went from 70's in the morning to 50's by the time I left for work.

    There has actually been some super nice days, but it's been strictly M-F, rain on the weekends for a month.

    Parent

    First hard freeze here tonight (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:36:04 PM EST
    Low 20s high teens.

    I'm really hoping it kills all the freakin leaves.

    Parent

    Rain/snow mix is falling right now (none / 0) (#114)
    by caseyOR on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:09:37 PM EST
    in my part of Illinois. Turning to all snow in an hour or two. Then snow until early afternoon. And, perhaps, on top of that some freezing rain. Maybe. Hope not.

    Depending on how this band of snow shifts, we could get anywhere from 2-6 inches of snow. Then the temps rise to the 40s on Monday, and it alll melts. Could be an interesting weekend, though.

    Parent

    Flurries here now (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 08:23:02 AM EST
    Temps sinking all day.   Freeze tonight.  I jumped the gun there.   The freeze is for tonight.  
    It's been a very warm and mild fall here.  So far.

    Parent
    Mixture of rain and snow this morning (none / 0) (#129)
    by MO Blue on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 09:38:54 AM EST
    Scheduled to end early afternoon. Drop down to about 23 tonight {{brrrr}}.  Forecasted to go back up to 45 during the day on Sunday. Hopefully the forecast for Sunday to correct since a group of us are planning a walk through one of the local parks to see the Holiday lights. Knowing me, I will be bundled up from head to toe. Don't do well with the cold.

    Parent
    Snowing here now. Wind, wind, wind (none / 0) (#133)
    by caseyOR on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 12:21:47 PM EST
    a blown'. Temps dropping down to the teens tonight. Brrrr!

    Monday, thank goodness, the daytime temps climb back to the 40s for the week. Nighttime temps will be in the more civilized range of 20s-30s.

    I guess it is time to pull the down comforter out of the closet and put it on the bed.

    Parent

    Ha (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 12:54:04 PM EST
    Just pulled the down comforter down out of the attic.

    Parent
    It's been about 80 here in the L.A. area today. (none / 0) (#108)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 08:30:06 PM EST
    It's supposed to get colder by this weekend, though. Nights are already in the high 40s. And because of recent rains here, the fall colors are in full display. I've been taking a lot of long walks around the old neighborhood in east Pasadena, and it's just beautiful. Given the reason I'm here, hope springs eternal and life goes on.

    Parent
    "80 here in the L.A. area today." (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 11:51:10 AM EST
    Where's the "0" rating?  I've got four inches of snow already.

    Parent
    What kind of weather did you have this past (none / 0) (#111)
    by vml68 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 09:29:31 PM EST
    Tuesday in Houston?
    We were on our way back from CA to FL and had to spend the night in Houston. Due to all the flight delays and cancellations all hotel rooms in a 25 mile radius of IAH were booked.

    Parent
    Cooling off up here in disneyville too over the (none / 0) (#91)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:44:12 PM EST
    weekend.  About dang time - what gets my goat is that you know it does not mean the hot weather will start any later in the spring. Delaying the cool weather just means fewer days of cool weather.  

    Parent
    ISIS uses footage frm GI Joe movie (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:55:26 PM EST
    in video threat to Paris

    Collapsing Eiffel Tower.

    Gilmore states the obvious (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 11:16:11 AM EST
    "I denounced many of his ideas, including the idea of some sort of federal deportation force, that's he gonna put together. Some sort of local, domestic organization that's gonna root people out," Gilmore said. "I just don't agree with that kind of thing. I've said it's fascist talk."
    I expect (none / 0) (#191)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 11:33:40 AM EST
    he will be dropping out soon now. No one who's polling over 2% seems to have the guts to call out Donald.

    Parent
    Amphetamines is Syria (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 05:49:15 PM EST
    the tiny pill fueling Syrias war

    Who is funding ISIS (4.50 / 2) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 09:46:10 AM EST
    I saw this from a posted link


    The Most Important Question About ISIS That Nobody Is Asking

    I have no opinion of the site or the thoughts in that post except I found it an interesting question if indeed we do not know.

    Do we?

    The third certainty is that while the US, and Russia, and now France, are all very theatrically bombing something in the Syrian desert (nobody really knows what), the funding of ISIS continues unabated as someone keeps buying ISIS oil.

    We wonder how long until someone finally asks the all important question regarding the Islamic State: who is the commodity trader breaching every known law of funding terrorism when buying ISIS crude, almost certainly with the tacit approval by various "western alliance" governments, and why is it that these governments have allowed said middleman to continue funding ISIS for as long as it has?
    It was (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 09:54:36 AM EST
    with this cartoon

    Parent
    Why do people like to say "we" (none / 0) (#6)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:09:16 AM EST
    when what they mean is "I"

    Parent
    Do you? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 11:59:49 AM EST


    Parent
    We don't know (none / 0) (#30)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:16:36 PM EST


    Parent
    That's what I thought (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:21:03 PM EST
    It's an interesting question.   The person that link and cartoon came from is a Bernie supporting liberal activist.   From Canada.   Who's been sending along quite a steady stream of related stuff.

    Just mentioning that because the coverage f this in this country, as far as I can tell, has been mostly right-wing media.  
    Fact is, it's an interesting question.

    Parent

    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:58:39 PM EST
    The funding sources of ISIS are interesting.  Indeed, critical. Being the Middle East and the world's richest oil region, a good place for any gum shoe to start is oil. And, natural gas.  And, pipelines for China markets; and EU markets. Add to the mix the competing age-old vectors of Islam, Sunni and Shia (Alawite) and control of oil and gas. And, the inter-connectedness of these factors and geopolitics.

    The toppling of Assad (Alawite) who is backed by Iran (Shia)is a goal of Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States (Sunni) with financing of al Qaeda,and other Jihadists (Sunni) willing to kill Alawite/Shia infidels.  ISIS (Sunni)is also part of the Assad toppling plan, its provenance Iraqi Sunni Bathists drummed out by Paul Brenner, the US occupational viceroy.

    ISIS, unlike the other Jihadists, has taken and kept control of regions in Iraq and Syria, including some oil fields and refineries. The oil is bootlegged easily--many are willing to buy cheap oil, including the Kurds and Turks. And, there are no clear enemies or allies in the sale of oil. Even Assad is willing to buy ISIS brokered oil: sanctions block the import of oil, so Assad is reliant on oil smuggled into the country or pumped in Syria.

    The oil fields and refineries in ISIS controlled Syria do stick out in the desert.  The US, apparently, has until just recently, avoided bombing oil tanker trucks to "limit civilian casualties."  And, the oil field bombings have been limited to disabling rather than destroying.  Based, it seems, on the idea that the fields will be regained and better to have them , reclaimed, essentially, intact.  

    The Saudi support for our efforts against ISIS is tied to our goal to unload Assad.  And, our concern for civilian casualties in bombing tankers and oil fields has been questioned by Putin, who may feel that keeping the oil flowing and prices down is intended to  cause him trouble back home given his need for high-priced oil revenues.

     ISIS can limp along by financing its despotic warring on robbing banks, kidnappings, seizure of farm lands, but the bulk of their killing machine is supported by oil and gas. And, the degradation and elimination of these pumping resources is necessary to the degradation and elimination of ISIS itself.  

     

    Parent

    Discussion of finding sources of ISIS (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:14:07 PM EST
    Has not seen much air time in the last few weeks of 24/7 "coverage" of ISIS related events.

    Funny that.

    Parent

    It's a major corporation (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by NYShooter on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:57:54 PM EST
    1. Oil sales estimated between 500 million and one billion per year.   

    2. Taxes levied on the approximately 8 million inhabitants of  captured lands.

    3. Kidnapping ransom

    4. Human trafficking

    5. Looted funds from about 50 captured banks

    6. Sales of antiquities from conquered land

    7. Donations from sympathetic outsiders

    All in all, estimates are that ISIS is running a surplus of approximately one quarter billion dollars.


    Parent
    Almost (none / 0) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 05:08:10 PM EST
    sounds like the Mafia except I'm not sure the Mafia kidnaps people for ransom. I think they just kidnap them and kill them.

    Parent
    Except, (none / 0) (#148)
    by NYShooter on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 03:54:18 PM EST
    The Mafia doesn't kill women & children.

    "it's not personal. it's just business.".......remember?

    Parent

    They will (none / 0) (#152)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 04:45:20 PM EST
    kill women but not children. A wife that is an FBI informant would be a goner.

    Parent
    The Queen Victoria royal "we"... (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by jondee on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:46:39 PM EST
    I think that's a great post that brings up important questions to ask and to keep asking..

    It seems as though as soon as the question of the connection between nefarious activities and banks and Wall St comes up, suddenly don't nobody know nothin'. Time to change the subject.

    Shadowy money-grubbing middle men? money laundering? Never heard of it.  

    Parent

    They probably do so for much the same reason ... (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 02:02:47 PM EST
    ... as some people presume to speak on behalf of the American people whenever they're expressing their own personal opinions, as a rhetorical means to inflate one's own sense of importance whilst also diminishing or dismissing contrary points of view.

    That said, we are not amused that you would waste the American people's time with such insolent questions.

    ;-D

    Parent

    Well played my good man. (none / 0) (#54)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 02:54:02 PM EST


    Parent
    Assad reportedly (none / 0) (#16)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:55:04 AM EST
    is buying back his regime's own oil.

    Parent
    there are 2 kinds of funding (none / 0) (#53)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 02:33:04 PM EST
    ISIS is funded in two main ways.

    1) is by individual or group contributions/donations.  The Russian intelligence service has found a lot of the persons and groups contributing to ISIS; there are such contributors in 40 nations and some of those contributors are in G20 countries.

    Vlad the Putin is on youtube and there are clips in which he is discussing ISIS . . .  not sure if the Russians have done research that we have not done or if we know also and have simply not told the public about it . . .  It is reported in some parts of the press that Obama is reluctant to speak of some groups as supporters of terrorism.

    2) some of ISIS wealth comes from the sale of the oil.  We don't wish to destroy the oil fields because we are humanitarians and we haven't been shooting up the trucks because we didn't wish to kill any civilians, as of a few days ago, but recently that has changed and we or France or the Russians have in fact now been shooting up some of the oil tanker trucks.

    Whether the Assad regime is buying back its own oil, I guess I will have to read . . . Vlad the Putin says that ISIS has been funded and supported in part by Turkish intelligence . . .

    You might also note that ISIS and large segments of Saudi Arabia would be in agreement on many things . . .  There are Saudi millionaires and the Saudi intelligence and some of them appear to be ISIS supporters . . .  Turkey is supposedly a moderate country but it is one which has become more and more Islamicized and which opposes Kurdish freedom to the south and east of Turkey.  Turkish intelligence and ISIS have a common enemy called the Kurds.

    Parent

    what I would say to ISIS fighters (none / 0) (#4)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 09:58:58 AM EST
    Greetings the fighters of ISIS.

    I wish to speak to you today about the path you have chosen.  I commend you for you faith in Allah and your desire to serve Him.  I realize that you fight and kill as part of what you consider to be your service to God.

    You know also that the coalition is coming for you.  You have provoked our wrath by killing our people.  In a few weeks, IS in Syria will be no more.  [Weeks or months, depending on where troops are.]

    We do not wish to kill all of you without offering you another way.  The Bible says, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you and pray for those who mistreat you.

    This you have not done.  It is an honorable way.  We who believe it defeated the Caliphate at Tours a thousand years ago.  Back then, the Caliphate stretched from Syria to North Africa and France.
    Back then, you outnumbered us; now, you are a pitiful piece of the old Caliphate and many of your killings have been against your fellow believers, others who are also Muslim.  You have killed your brothers in the faith and your leaders expect God to deliver you!  They are fools.  You have attacked nations of millions who are well prepared for this fight.

    You can choose brutality and killing and you and your friends will die.  You can choose the way of love and surrender and many of you will live.  Those who choose the way of love can live in peace with their neighbors.

    Because many of you have chosen the wrong way, as we prepare to attack, we pray that Allah show you the right way.

    z

    Sure..go for it :) (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:28:37 AM EST


    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#19)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 11:13:40 AM EST
    Thanks!

    and I am sure that Caliph Abu Bakr Baghdadi will be most pleased to have this broadcast . . .

    Parent

    The Sooner the Better... (5.00 / 5) (#33)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:27:25 PM EST
    ...I will even chip in a couple bucks for your flight to Damascus.

    Parent
    Let me get this straight: (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 11:36:13 AM EST
    You want to threaten them with brutality and killing if they don't take the path of peace and love.

    "If you keep killing, we will kill you more!"

    Our wrath is more just than theirs, of course. We kill to save people; they kill for what, fun?

    Brutality and killing as a means to peace and love makes no sense.  

    Parent

    Anne, you lasted 33 minutes and 22 seconds :) (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 11:52:04 AM EST
    Fk it.  For now, anyway.  Hell, knowing me, I'll be lucky to make it through the day trying to be blissfully ignorant, but sometimes, you just have to try.


    Parent
    I know...sad. It'll be easier when (none / 0) (#26)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:05:39 PM EST
    I get home tonight - my almost 3 yr old grandson is coming to spend the night, and I'm also gearing up for Thanksgiving, so lots of planning and making lists and what-not to do.

    Since I have all of next week off, there will be some down time - I mean, it's not like I'm going to be feeding 300 people!  Friday's usually the best day for down time...sleeping in, not doing much, having a turkey and stuffing sandwich with olives on the side...that might be our lunch AND our dinner!  I am not a Black Friday shopper, though there's a chance we may be watching the little ones while their moms brave the crowds.

    Real problem is I don't feel motivated to be doing much work today...

    Parent

    And ? (none / 0) (#51)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 02:19:16 PM EST
    Lets suppose there is again a Radio Free Iraq, which was apparently shut down a few years ago . . .

    Oh, Anne, what argument or appeal do you wish to make to ISIS fighters, if any?

    Or, do you suggest that we make none?

    Maybe it is a bad idea to tell them there is another way?

    Parent

    Now for something (none / 0) (#5)
    by CST on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:08:34 AM EST
    Truly controversial

    "Curling, the ice sport with brooms, is roiled in controversy over -- what else? -- the brooms."

    "Perhaps unsurprising for a sport that has something in common with a household chore, the issue involves fabric -- specifically, something called directional fabric."

    "Some teams are accusing other teams of cheating, but there's no cheating because there's no rules," said the Canadian Brad Gushue, a gold medalist at the 2006 Olympics."

    Top end curlers (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:13:51 AM EST
    get their firebolts from Diagon Alley.

    Parent
    My favorite film (none / 0) (#8)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:22:44 AM EST
    about curling.

    Parent
    It's Not on Netflix (none / 0) (#13)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:42:19 AM EST


    Parent
    The ones you want (none / 0) (#14)
    by CST on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:42:52 AM EST
    never are

    Parent
    Well I Wish... (none / 0) (#47)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 02:02:12 PM EST
    ...Nymphomaniac was not.  I didn't think at 45 my brain could be scarred by a movie, I was dead wrong.  It wasn't sexy or erotic like the name implies...  It was two dimensional evil with a curious title.

    Parent
    I Am a Curler... (none / 0) (#12)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:39:36 AM EST
    ...if taking it every year in high-school gym class qualifies as a curler.  It's actually quite fun and doesn't take a whole lot of skill.

    I have a novel idea to clear up the controversy, make a rule about the broom material.  Or the teams that aren't using the new materials can start using the new materials...  Solved in under 2 mins.

    Parent

    Now I feel better about ice fishing (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by jondee on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:13:24 PM EST


    Parent
    Is that the Sconnie in you, Scott? (none / 0) (#116)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:22:21 PM EST
    Curling is increasingly popular in the land of my origins, so they say.  No explanation known for that, other than it's a weird culture in many ways.

    Parent
    Family jokes...Ben Carson meme (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:26:51 AM EST
    Husband says, "Did you hear Ben Carson is best friends with Barry Bonds, and he tried to stab him in the junk once but the cup deflected it? And he's best friends with Joe Namath and he tried to stab him in the back once, but it got stuck in a pad?"

    Josh cannot be outdone though because his response was, "Oh yeah? Well he's best friends with Dick Cheney too and he did stab Cheney, in the heart :)"

    The jokes (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 11:58:25 AM EST
    just write themselves don't they?

    Parent
    Hrc v Islamic reality (none / 0) (#11)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:32:29 AM EST
    HRC says

    'Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.'

    If radical beliefs include such things as voting to impose Sharia law or believing in honor killings of family members or other similar things, such as prosecuting people for drawing a cartoon of Mohammed, somewhat more than half of Muslims are "radicals."  These radicals believe in suicide bombings and the targeting of civilians.  In many countries, about 75% of the Muslim population want Sharia law to govern their nation.

    In many countries, 75% or more Muslims have positive or mixed feelings about bin Laden.

    According to Pew Research and other similar polling, 19% of American Muslims have favorable views of Al-qaeda or claim that they don't know.

    13% of American Muslims say that violence against civilians can be justified. . .

    The FDA just approved the first genetically (none / 0) (#15)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:51:04 AM EST
    engineered animal for human consumption.

    Looks tasty.

    Subway's Jared Fogle sentenced to 15+ years (none / 0) (#18)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 11:05:53 AM EST
    Link

    I'm not sure how I feel about this.  The sentence was longer than what the federal prosecutors recommended.  Maybe this judge wanted to appear "tough on crime" for a high profile case.

    Fogle had sex with girls 16 and 17 years old and received child pornography.

    Thjose girls were victims of (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 11:26:54 AM EST
    sex trafficking; some of the children in the p@rn he amassed were as young as six.  Six.  Can you even imagine what it must be like to be trafficked, to be used in photos and films at the age of six, in order to satisfy the urges and needs of the Jared Fogles of the world?  

    Easy enough - for you, I guess - to only see that the girls were on the verge of adulthood (although he was looking to go younger), but when you consider the abuse this man was helping to perpetuate, I'm not sure 15 years is enough.

    Parent

    Remember... (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:53:01 PM EST
    ...when I said you were the first one at TL to jump in to defend white men on sex crimes and you acted like you had no idea what I was talking about... see mirror.

    Maybe the judge was sickened by Fogle telling her that he masturbated over very young girls, 7, I believe, or maybe she didn't like the fact that Fogle was actively trying to located kids for sex, 160,000 texts messages, some of which he declared he would pay more for really young ones.  Or maybe it was his own psychiatrist telling her that since he lost weight he had become hyper-sexualized with a focus on children.  Or maybe she didn't like the fact that he was living with his two kids who pretty much fit his sexual fantasy profile.  For me, it would have been when he paid off the victims in hopes of getting a reduced sentence, there were 14 of them.

    Parent

    A lot of maybes (none / 0) (#46)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 02:01:17 PM EST
    This is why I said I don't know how I feel about it yet.  Do you know what the usual sentence is for similar crimes? I don't.  

    I didn't realize race had anything to do with this.

    Parent

    You Never Know How to Feel... (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 02:04:03 PM EST
    ...about much, yet you always have very strong opinions and seems to be drawn to the same colored lights.

    Parent
    I still don't understand what Fogle being white (none / 0) (#109)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 08:35:57 PM EST
    has to do with anything?  Bill Cosby and Kobe Bryant aren't white and I had the audacity to speak out in their defense.  It seems like you're looking for something that isn't there.

     

    Parent

    Jared Fogle used and paid others to ... (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 02:24:09 PM EST
    ... procure young girls for purposes of his own sexual gratification -- "the younger, the better" is what I believe he said.

    Personally, I have zero tolerance for sexual predators like Fogel who prey upon minors. Such serial abusers can and do scar their victims both psychologically and emotionally for the rest of their lives.

    And if you don't know how you feel about Fogel's actions, or if you believe his sentence to somehow be excessive given the nature of his crimes, then I really don't know what to say to you.

    :-|

    Parent

    If he's so terrible, why did the prosecutor (none / 0) (#57)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:03:28 PM EST
    only recommend 12.5 years? Having "zero tolerance" for sexual predators is the easy thing to do.  Figuring out the appropriate punishment is more difficult.

    If we want to reduce mass incarcerations and excessive jail time, we can't just pick the crimes we find the least offensive.  We have to look at all crimes and make sure the is punishment fits the offense.

    Parent

    We can reduce incarceration rates by (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:54:18 PM EST
    ... releasing those inmates whose crimes are essentially victimless, e.g., drug possession, and pose no pre-existing threat to the safety, well being and welfare of others in their communities.

    Suffice to say, Jared Fogle ain't one of 'em. What he did was monstrous, and his 15-year prison sentence is entirely appropriate given the nature of his offense.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The rules to make the mainstage (none / 0) (#28)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:15:20 PM EST
    at the Dec 15 GOP debate have been announced. Considering current polling through today, the number on stage will bump back up from 8 to 9 candidates with Christie reappearing in primetime. They have found a way not to thin the herd.

    Interesting NBC/SurveyMonkey poll (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:30:53 PM EST
    That has Carson and Cruz tied at 18 for second place.  Carson down 8 and Cruz up 8.

    It's funny to think Cruz might the the last "establishment" hope.  I would love to be in establishment meetings discussing choosing between supporting Donald or Ted Cruz.

    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:42:06 PM EST
    that answers the question as to where Carson's voters are going to land.

    Parent
    November (none / 0) (#68)
    by FlJoe on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:46:30 PM EST
    has been pretty grim for Ben among likely voters.

    HuffpostPollster is a pretty cool toy for poll watching nerds such as myself.

    Parent

    I should add (none / 0) (#40)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 01:05:31 PM EST
    those numbers can change between now and Dec 15. Huckabee has an outside chance of making it 10 onstage. Equally possible is Paul (or maybe Fiorina) not making it and taking it down to 7 or 8.

    If wagering I'd take 9, 8 if Paul can't hold onto his minimal NH support.

    Parent

    Calling Donald from Hawaii (none / 0) (#35)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 12:31:12 PM EST
    Riddle me this, Batman:

    What is the deal with Tulsi Gabbard?

    I shared my thoughts about Ms. Gabbard earlier ... (none / 0) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:29:17 PM EST
    ... in an Oct. 14 thread about that night's Democratic presidential debate. LINK. If you're at all interested learning about Ms. Gabbard, I'd suggest you read the linked articles I included in that post. She's a rather curious person, to sat the least.

    That said, I'm not surprised by her vote, nor do I think it will go over very well with her constituents in Hawaii's second congressional district. Since she regularly makes a big deal in public over the fact that she's the only member of Congress who's of the Hindu faith, we ought to remember that the historic animosity between Hindus and Muslims has tended to be much more virulent and vicious than that which exists between Muslims and Judeo-Christians. People in our islands tend to take a very dim view of overt expressions of racial, ethnic and religious intolerance.

    There is absolutely nothing that's at all redeeming, noble, courageous or statesmanlike about the House GOP's craven indulgence of the willful ignorance and baseless hysteria of low-information white voters. Congresswoman Gabbard proved herself to be both a fool and a tool on their behalf, and she should be ashamed of herself for helping to further fan the flames of such mindless Islamophobia.

    It's simply absurd that we'd so willfully and blatantly undermine our country's bedrock principles by not only seeking to deny a safe haven to the persecuted Syrians and Iraqis, but to further do so based upon nothing more than their religion and / or national origin.

     Yesterday's House vote calls directly into question both our moral character and our basic human decency. And if Ms. Gabbard can't understand that, then for all her pretentions to being a so-called "serious person," she is a silly and self-serving twit who obviously can't see the forest for the trees, and she really has no business representing the people of Hawaii in our nation's capital.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    A surprising vote from Colorado also (none / 0) (#72)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:54:10 PM EST
    Congressman Jared Polis, 2nd district (includes Boulder) voted for the more severe measure regarding processing refugee requests as well. Perhaps, Polis (D) ceded to pressure from the more conservative components of the district ... because Polis' own explanation explained little.

    Parent
    my congressman too (none / 0) (#79)
    by CST on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:02:09 PM EST
    I wish I could say I was surprised but he seems to jump at a lot of opportunities to side with the Republicans on social issues.  He is from Southie...

    Needless to say I'm not a fan of Lynch.

    Parent

    Most of the calls they get (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:08:29 PM EST
    Are telling him to do this.   O and the forces of good have done a miserable job of making the case for compassion.

    I completely understand the reaction.   Fact is we have so far lost the information war over this issue.

    And everyone in congress is reflecting that.

    Parent

    Howdy: You could see it coming (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 09:04:31 PM EST
    I would give you 5 5s on this one ....

    The messaging, the communication from the WH on this one stinks. Plain stinks.  For one thing: As soon as the matter even started to be talked about, the whole WH team ( and where the heck is the unknown head of the singular Homeland Security Dept???) should have been non-stop out there pointing out clearly--not once, not 20 times, but as many times as each day would allow--what the vetting process in place has been.  It is a good one, a strong one ... and (oh boy) one that no one really knew about or could cite or could say anything directly about until the WH decided that "my goodness, I guess we ought to say something."

    Once again, the WH let itself get into the catch-up communication position.  For Heavens Sake, it is almost beyond believable how out-of-it that bunch has been about the extreme, very real, key importance of acknowledging and validating the very real concern of the American people.  This is not a scholarly book, after all; this is not theory; this should not be an afterthought.  The WH approach to communication on issues that anyone can see will grow intense seems to be to react and respond.  Sh.. !!

    In many ways, the derelict communication here has left the Dem reps out to dry because the WH ignored something very important: A man needs to have food to eat and a place to sleep (trans. "feel secure") before you can talk philosophy.  People are feeling insecure, especially after the Paris attacks ... their leaders should speak in terms of assurance first, before telling everyone what is the principled thing to do.

    Thanks for letting me blow off steam.  (Actually, I've had a bit more than a bit of wine for the same reason ... the stupidity of the WH in this whole communication fiasco.  Damn it ... maybe we should just hand it to the demagogues on the right!)

    Parent

    Understand your (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 09:58:51 AM EST
    need to vent.   The White House has a good case, but has been not so much slow, as absent, in making it. And, another point that you make (the Secretary of Homeland Security who has gone missing) can be applied more broadly to the administration: with exception of Sec. Kerry, and maybe, Eric Holder (prior to Loretta Lynch) the Cabinet secretaries have been very low profile.  Even those who follow current events, may not be able to name more than one or two--if that.  The WH-centric management keeps a focus and control, but it loses the range of expertise and faces put before the citizens.

    Parent
    This is (none / 0) (#113)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 09:58:52 PM EST
    not the only issue. Think Obamacare. Think numerous other things where the communication has just been rotten.

    Parent
    It's frustrating (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 08:24:43 AM EST
    Every time this happens I want to shake them and say did you already forget how stupid and gullible people are?


    Parent
    An interesting test (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:56:21 PM EST
    Of this issue might be tomorrow.  David Vitter in LA has been trying to ride this issue to the governors desk.  He was way beside and has been coming back by hitting the democrat on this issue.

    Runoff tomorrow.

    Parent

    The race is reportedly (none / 0) (#155)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 06:22:26 PM EST
    "Surprisingly close".

    Polls close at 8.

    Parent

    I bet (none / 0) (#156)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 06:26:12 PM EST
    the diaper man pulls it off.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 07:45:32 PM EST
    For that mental image

    :)

    Parent

    The Advocate (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 08:09:01 PM EST
    has a page set up for election returns in LA

    Parent
    John Bel Edwards (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Zorba on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 09:41:42 PM EST
    Won.

    Parent
    By a fairly youuuuge margin (none / 0) (#173)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 08:17:50 AM EST
    12.2%

    This is good.   Diaper Dave was riding the refugee issue hard.

    LA is as good a test as any for that sort of thing I would think.

    Plus, after however many years of Bobby Jindal I expect most had quite enough of THAT.


    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#176)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 09:00:48 AM EST
    largely that is a message that the take no prisoners way of campaigning is a winner and kumbaya does not work. Good news for Hillary's style of campaigning.

    Parent
    Polling (none / 0) (#178)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 09:03:35 AM EST
    (As much as can be trusted lately) suggested  a big win for Edwards

    He was the perfect candidate for Louisiana, and ran a excellent campaign

    A more promising red state Democrat could hardly have been found than Mr. Edwards, a Catholic social conservative from a family of rural law enforcement officers who graduated from West Point and served eight years of active duty in the Army.

    Mr. Edwards, in turn, tried to keep the focus away from party or ideology and on his military background, Mr. Vitter's scandal and the increasingly unpopular Mr. Jindal, who after two terms was barred by term limits from seeking re-election.



    Parent
    He had (none / 0) (#179)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 09:06:21 AM EST
    a take no prisoners style of campaigning regardless of the other stuff. Social conservatism might win in LA but it's not a winner on the national scene.

    Parent
    Everyone (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 09:11:22 AM EST
    Including me expected Edwards to win.   The point of my earlier comment was that Vitter had been closing the gap in the last few days hitting the refugee issue very hard.

    I agree with you about campaign style.  He kicked him and kicked him and kept on kicking him.   And that's why he won.

    Parent

    Shades of (none / 0) (#188)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 11:09:05 AM EST
    James Carville--when your opponent is drowning throw him an anvil.

    Parent
    Thanks for the info (none / 0) (#86)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:31:09 PM EST
    Gabbard seems very ambitious, and I thought her vote could be some of odd triangulation, but in Hawaii?

    Parent
    She may well come to regret that decision. (none / 0) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 06:35:30 PM EST
    There are a lot of local residents who've been voicing their increasing resentment over Ms. Gabbard's repeated appearances on the cable TV news channels, such as yesterday with Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC. She appears to be much more interested in raising her own political profile, than in actually doing the work her constituents expect to see done. I expect to see her experiencing some blowback by the time I return to the islands after Thanksgiving.

    Parent
    Best answer of the day: (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 06:56:09 PM EST
    When Hawaii Gov. David Ige was first informed of Gabbard's vote and subsequent remarks on MSNBC yesterday by a local reporter, who then asked if he had any response, he sadly bowed his head and said quietly, "Shameful."

    Parent
    The US is really serious about ISIS > > > (none / 0) (#56)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:02:34 PM EST
    We are obviously really serious about defeating ISIS . . .

    Some critics have argued that the United States should send significantly more ground troops to fight ISIS, a suggestion Obama has resisted. . .

    CNN has embedded with the Kurdish fighters, who have had a very tough fight made even harder because their weapons are old and they often don't have enough supplies.

    Yeah, well, why should we arm the Kurds--what could they ever do?  It is probably too expensive to give them a tank or a truck . . . and as for our surplus rifles, lets throw them away . . .

    Volunteer Yazidis, the minority group ISIS attacked in Iraq's Sinjar district last year, also have joined in ground combat. . . .

    Is our idea of helping our friends is to arm them with rocks?

    And that folks is our hyperbole winner of the day (none / 0) (#59)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:16:03 PM EST


    Parent
    I Would Say... (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:45:13 PM EST
    ...that is kindest thing you could say about that post.

    Parent
    one or more (none / 0) (#90)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:38:40 PM EST
    One or more of the Kurdish groups is on the state department list of terrorist organizations; it is illegal, supposedly, for the gov or you or me to help them  . . .

    *

    Following yesterday's reports of the incident by Kurdish forces on the ground, [NATO ally] Turkey's government has confirmed that they [have] attacked Kurdish YPG targets across the Syrian border, the first time Turkey has admitted to attacking them. . .

    The YPG are seeking control over Jarabulus, an ISIS-held border town just West of the Euphrates, though interestingly the cross-border gunfire incidents happened nowhere near Jarabulus - rather they were well further east at Tel Abyad, in the Raqqa Province.

    Turkey has made Jarabulus a red line several times in the past, but has also objected to the YPG moving into the ISIS dominated Raqqa Province and carving up ISIS territory.

    *

    The Kurds are fighting with old weapons and limited supplies . . . and they have been attacked repeatedly by Turkey. . . .

    Oh, well.


    Parent

    question for military or others (none / 0) (#94)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:53:37 PM EST
    So, in this little clip,

    a kurdish woman is shown firing her sniper rifle.

    She says,  "Those houses in front of us are ISIS positions.  they have no respect for women's rights.  They have captured and killed many Yazidi women.  I am here to kick them out and liberate my sisters."

    Is that an American sniper rifle she has or something else?  How old is that rifle she has, if I may ask?

    She apparently has taken out 29 ISIS fighters; I just wonder if some nice rifles might help.

    Can anyone tell?

    Parent

    No optics and belt fed (none / 0) (#170)
    by ragebot on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 11:37:45 PM EST
    That does not look like what most folks would call a sniper rifle.  It has open iron sights and is belt fed.  It looks like a AK47 style light machine gun which have been produce all over the world for quite some time, so it is hard to say when and where it was produced.  The USSR allowed their allies to produce these guns all over the world.

    The AK47 is a simple easy to maintain weapon that does not require much training to use.  A "nice rifle" would require more training and might well not be as effective as an easy to use weapon.  Not to mention ammunition for a "nice rifle" might not be as easy to get as the 7.62X39 round the AK uses.  If you notice almost all the peeps in the video were using AKs so ammo and spare parts are easy to find.

    Not saying a Barrett would not be better in skilled hands, just that the AKs are the third world weapon of choice for a good reason.

    Parent

    Further on in the video, (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 09:08:45 AM EST
    there is what looks like a Dragunov sniper rifle, also a repaired or modded Barrett (or clone), not sure which but definitely a huge bore single shot rifle, .50 or 12.7mm.

    Parent
    a petition for you and for France . . . (none / 0) (#63)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:35:42 PM EST
    have the state department and France stop any designations of the Kurds as terrorists.

    I'm about to dive into (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:45:43 PM EST
    The final available episodes of House of Cards.

    I am sad.

    I've had them for 2 days.

    I've been enjoying season 3 (none / 0) (#71)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 03:53:47 PM EST
    I thought season 2 was ridiculous and almost didn't both with the current one.  

    Looking forward to The Man In The High Castle.

    Parent

    So I saw Sharon Stone on Colbert this week... (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:26:37 PM EST
    she has a new show coming up in which she is a dead ringer for Claire Underwood, but older I suppose.  From the clip they showed, it is a pretty shameless rip-off of Robin Wright's performance.  Stone plays a VP of the US who has a secret authority to order a hit man around. Might be a good show, but gees, could she at least have gotten a different haircut and wardrobe?

    Parent
    TNT (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:36:33 PM EST
    Hummmmm.  

    My spider sense is not tingling.

    Parent

    haha, no mine neither really (none / 0) (#92)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:47:44 PM EST
    What is the show McBain mentioned? Have not heard anything about it.

    I want to watch the Aizs Ansary Netflix comedy. That does look good, and is getting good reviews.

    In pure nonsense TV - I am loving 'Crazy Ex-Girlfriend' on the CW. It is a musical! Really funny and some of the musical numbers are great. Some not so much, but that's ok.


    Parent

    The Man In High Castle (none / 0) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:51:47 PM EST
    Is an Amazon Prime series about an alternate reality (?) in which the AXIS powers won WWII and the former USA is divided between Nazi and Japanese occupation.

    It does look interesting.  Not enough yet to make me buy Amazon Prime

    Parent

    Glad I have Prime (none / 0) (#171)
    by ragebot on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 11:42:00 PM EST
    Living on a boat I need my Amazon stuff arriving before I sail off.  Also like the ability to get shows on my laptop so I can watch them when there is not internet in the islands.

    Just as an aside email in Cuba was not working very well last week.

    Parent

    I hope it does well (none / 0) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 08:19:25 AM EST
    It looks like serious effort and money was put into it.

    More good stuff is always a good thing.

    Parent

    Speaking of nonsense TV (none / 0) (#126)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 09:03:11 AM EST
    Gigi Does It is my current guilty Pleasure
    TRAILER

    This is the summary from IMDB.

    An old woman* living in Florida faces the modern world.

    *played by a man.

    Parent

    Did not know (none / 0) (#99)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 05:57:58 PM EST
    (or remember) that Sharon Stone had a major brain hemorrhage. She described a long and difficult time for recovery--which appears to be a full one. And, she looks great.   It was up to another Colbert guest, Justin Theroux, to do a cross and uncross the legs, per Basic Instinct.  

    Parent
    First Freddie Gray trial to start Nov 30th (none / 0) (#83)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:14:59 PM EST
    According to this article, officer William Porter will take the stand in his own defense.
    I think he'll get more than a fair trial," said William Hemphill. "In the city, people are hardworking and they're fair people. Even though they don't get treated fairly, they're just fair people at heart

    Not sure if I believe that.  I guess it comes down to jury selection.

    This one says Donta Allen, the other passenger in the van, will also testify for the defense.

    I hope it's televised.  Anyone know?  

    Huge line for the opening night of the movie (none / 0) (#115)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 10:21:43 PM EST
    "Carol."  Hope everyone got a seat. Meanwhile, across the street at the Apple store, a guy w/a machete.

    That's Machete Mitch... (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by kdog on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 06:49:01 AM EST
    he's harmless, he just needed an upgrade to the iMachete7s.

    Parent
    Funny (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 08:26:32 AM EST
    I sometimes miss the city.  Odd thing, many of my dreams occurs in a version of NYC.   I have not lived there since 1989 but my dreams still live there.

    I woke up frm one this morning.

    Parent

    US actions contributing to existence of ISIS (none / 0) (#119)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 12:25:52 AM EST
    There are 50 some odd militias or groups considered to be part of the Syrian civil war.  The vast majority of them have significant Islamicist elements; many of them have not attacked or fought with ISIS, though we are supposedly supporting and at times arming them.  In some cases, our arming of various groups has resulted in the arms becoming the arms of ISIS, either due to defections to ISIS or armies giving up their weapons and disintegrating or disappearing.

    there are legal restrictions in the USA on our support of the Kurds, partly or chiefly due to our desire to accomodate the Turks, and our having designated in years past some groups as terrorist organizations, though the behavior for which we condemn them has either been renounced and/or was not sufficient to cause many other nations to consider the Kurds terrorist groups.

    The one group making any substantial progress in fighting ISIS has been subject to repeated airstrikes by Turkey which opposes territorial expansion by the Kurds, even if such expansion takes place in Syria or even if it takes place only in ISIS controlled lands.

    In other words, the Turks have aided and abetted the existence of ISIS and protected ISIS ability to control one or more cities such as Jarabulus.

    The Turks extracted from the USA in discussions about using the Turkish airport a USA promise that various parts of Syria be kept out of the hands of the Kurds.

    The USA has said and done nothing while the Turks have dropped bombs on the Kurds, people who share our values, defend the innocent and minorities and refuse to be drawn into Muslim extremism.

    In majority-Muslim lands such as Syria, the insistence on ousting Assad and having a so-called democratic form of government really means for Syria to be Muslim dominated and have Sharia law, law that would likely include the land of the Kurds who are fighting for freedom.

    There are dozens of the groups that the US has been supporting which are Islamicist and which have been reasonably accused of war crimes and terrorism . . . various senators want them armed or we have already been arming them.

    Anonymous VS ISIS (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 09:17:42 AM EST
    One of the most interesting recent developments on ISIS front is the declaration of war on them by the hacker group Anonymous.  


    Anonymous says ISIS has more attacks planned for today

    Um, tomorrow (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 09:18:55 AM EST


    Parent
    If Trump says something (none / 0) (#138)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 01:47:56 PM EST
    asinine and stupid, the other Republican candidates are soon to follow.  When asked if he agreed with Trump that we need to close down mosques, Marco Rubio one-uped Trump:  "Its not about closing down mosques.  Its about closing down anyplace--whether its a cafe, a diner, an internet site,--anyplace where radicals are being inspired."

    "So whatever facility is being used --its not just a mosque--any facility that is being used to radicalize and inspire attacks against the US, should be a place we look at."

    The Republican establishment is poking around the embers with a stick to see who might fit their bill not that Jeb! is on the skids.

      Rubio, the tea party darling in his Florida senate race, is apparently just the "moderate", and as close as their nose. If you overlook, all that is going on in this Rubio gem--mass surveillance, privacy issues, right to free association--you know, the constitution.  

    why are these comments a problem? (none / 0) (#147)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 03:46:34 PM EST
    You folks make exceptions to the 1st and 2nd and other amendments all over the place and "we" as Americans allow for exceptions to the amendments as they are understood.

    Freedom of religion has limitations and restrictions when it comes to the practice of drug use or underage sex and several other things . . .

    Do you think it is ok to have a limitation on the free exercise of religion as it relates to certain sexual or marriage ideas . . . but not when it relates to the practice or advocacy of murder AKA terrorism or suicide bombing?

    If and when a Muslim imam teaches and encourages suicide bombing, what is his legal liability?  None?

    How about "honor killing" of family members, a practice believed in and advocated by many Muslims?  

    If and when various mosques teach or justify or advocate honor killings of family members for things such as immodest dress, sexual behavior or leaving Islam--You don't have any problem with the leader of the mosque teaching that idea to his congregation?  Maybe the courts have insisted that this is allowable, as long as they aren't inciting the killing of any particular individual; I don't know.  We should ask Donald or PeterG.

    If measured by Pew Research polls, about half or somewhat more than half of Muslims are "radicals."

    Parent

    Do you bat your rhetorical eyes when (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 04:29:04 PM EST
    you ask these inane questions?

    Can you point us to a single American mosque whose members and/or imam are practicing or advocating murder?  

    No? So, that means that Trump and Carson and Rubio - among others - are advocating that we shut down mosques, prevent Muslims from gathering, put their info into a giant database, just because they are Muslim, and some Muslims a world away committed an act of terrorism.

    If that's your standard, please explain to me why Christian churches have not been closed, why white Christians are allowed to assemble and move about the country freely, and are not in the giant database of "white Christian males who might go on a shooting rampage."

    No, nevermind, don't explain anything to me; I can't read one more of your trippy little gee-I-wonder comments.

    Please stop taking up valuable comment space asking these stupid questions; no matter how you try to disguise it, you are just trolling for attention.  Guess it's gotten too chilly in the Greenlake area.

    Parent

    for one Omar Abdel-Rahman (none / 0) (#153)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 05:49:27 PM EST
    Have you heard of Omar Abdel-Rahman?

    Do you read the news?

    Abdel-Rahman was deeply anti-American and spoke out against it. He issued a fatwa in the US that declared it lawful to rob banks and kill Jews in the US. His sermons condemned Americans as the "descendants of apes and pigs who have been feeding from the dining tables of the Zionists, Communists, and colonialists".[11] He called on Muslims to assail the West, "cut the transportation of their countries, tear it apart, destroy their economy, burn their companies, eliminate their interests, sink their ships, shoot down their planes, kill them on the sea, air, or land".[12]

    Preaching at three mosques in the New York City area, Abdel-Rahman was soon surrounded by a core group of devoted followers that included persons who became responsible for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which took place five weeks into the Bill Clinton administration. One of Rahman's followers, El Sayyid Nosair, was linked to the assassination of Israeli nationalist Rabbi Meir Kahane, founder of the Jewish Defense League. He was subsequently acquitted of murder but convicted on gun possession charges.

    Parent

    The Blind Sheikh? (none / 0) (#160)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 07:26:19 PM EST
    Got anything a tad more current?

    You still haven't explained why there's not even a suggestion that the rights of Christians must be curtailed because of the actions of the extremists among them.

    You may now open your blue book and begin. Good luck.  

    Parent

    neo-nazi or right-wing extremism (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 10:04:18 PM EST
    Neo-nazi and/or right-wing extremism is considered liable for approximately 3.5 death per year in the USA since 2001.  I don't know if that number includes the more recent Charleston white supremacist shooting.

    This number includes killings done by group which have a non-Christian "right-wing" ideology such as neo-Nazi or nonreligious white supremacist or basic agnostic anger expressed by a person who has visited some militia groups such as McVeigh.

    Timothy McVeigh was an agnostic and his killings are/were considered "right wing extremism."  Since he was agnostic, the only thing "right wing" about his extremism was that he had friends or had attended some militia meetings.  Of course, it is true that some years ago, there was a guy who shot an abortion doctor for religious reasons.

    Around the whole, more than half of Muslims desire or will vote for Sharia law.  After the revolution in Libya, there were two major candidates or parties.  One was a Muslim Brotherhood party and the other was so-called "moderate" Islamicist party, which also said they would impose Sharia law.  

    The so-called "moderate" advocate in Lybia for Sharia law won.  This was a supposedly first for a majority Muslim countries which have had elections, where they often elect groups such as Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.  Perhaps some gratitude to the West helped Libya choose "moderates" to enforce their sharia law rather than the Muslim Brotherhood--a group considered to be a terrorist group by Egypt and a number of other Arab nations.

    There is no inclination on the part of 96% or more of Christians or those who profess to be Christians to desire to overthrow the US gov by violence or to impose Christian or Jewish law by force--except in the sense of voting or fighting in court over laws about abortion, planned parenthood and lgbt discrimination laws.

    About 19% of American Muslims have positive feelings, mixed feelings, claim they don't know or refuse to say their "feelings" about Osama bin Laden.

    I know some Christians who store gold and believe that abortion and homosexuality should be illegal.

    The FBI could always subscribe to their newsletters . . .  maybe they should also follow Scalia around . . . though I also think that the SCOTUS has wrongly and routinely decided a number of cases in favor of the police, poorly, or in favor of the prosecution, poorly, or in favor of the gov, poorly.

    Islam is a religion that includes the instruction still applicable to make war on unbelievers.  It is a reasonable discussion to have as to whether or not people should be preaching that, just as we have argued about people being Nazis in America. . .   They are not that different . . . and the FBI and local LE does keep track of neo-Nazi groups because they are prone to violence.  the fact that Islam is a world religion does not grant them any special exemption compared to neo-Nazi groups which are watched, monitored and at times visited.

    You think we should visit and monitor and keep track of Muslim Brotherhood mosques less than the Neo-Nazis?  Why is that?

    Parent

    Interesting poll regarding American (none / 0) (#199)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 02:16:33 PM EST
    religions and support for violence which kills civilians:

    Through interviews with 2,482 Americans, Gallup found that 78 percent of Muslims believe violence which kills civilians is never justified, whereas just 38 percent of Protestant Christians and 39 percent of Catholics agreed with that sentiment. Fifty-six percent of atheists answered similarly.

    When Gallup put the question a bit more pointedly, asking if it would be justified for "an individual person or a small group of persons to target and kill civilians," the responses were a bit more uniform. Respondents from nearly all groups were widely opposed to such tactics, with Protestants and Catholics at 71 percent against. Muslims still had the highest number opposed, at 89 percent. Seventy-six percent of atheists were also opposed.were a bit more uniform. Respondents from nearly all groups were widely opposed to such tactics, with Protestants and Catholics at 71 percent against. Muslims still had the highest number opposed, at 89 percent. Seventy-six percent of atheists were also opposed.re widely opposed to such tactics, with Protestants and Catholics at 71 percent against. Muslims still had the highest number opposed, at 89 percent. Seventy-six percent of atheists were also opposed.

    40% more Protestants and 39% more Catholics did not agree that violence that kills civilians is never justified than Muslims.

    18% less Christians did not indicate opposition to the question regarding  justified for "an individual person or a small group of persons to target and kill civilians.

     Muslims and even atheists were more opposed to violence against civilians than Protestants and Catholics (i.e. Christians).


    Parent

    wiki says . . . (none / 0) (#154)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 05:51:43 PM EST
    Abdel-Rahman was the spiritual leader of the terrorists who were conducting these attacks (the terrorists were members of his Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya).[15] At that time, he was recording his sermons in Brooklyn on cassette tapes and sending them to Egypt. These tapes were duplicated and given to tens of thousands of people in Cairo. In these tapes, Abdel-Rahman called for the murder of infidels, the ousting of Hosni Mubarak, and for Egypt to become a pure Islamic state.[15]

    "Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman uses New York as a base," said Mamdouh Beltagui, the head of the state information service in Egypt. "He raises funds and sends money back to Egypt with couriers. He passes on messages to his followers, giving orders about what they should do next and who they should target. We do not understand why the U.S. authorities have allowed him to enter the country."[15]

    Parent

    what's more is that (none / 0) (#157)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 07:04:54 PM EST
    About 1/4 of the mosques in the USA are owned by
    an affiliate, one that may be nearly a branch, of the "Muslim Brotherhood."

    It goes by a slightly different name . . . and its materials do not say that jihad is holy war against infidels . . . but on the other hand, killing and tyranny and oppression is fine, which is actually somewhat morally right, but very badly applied by many Muslims.

    North American Islamic Trust (NAIT)
    NAIT holds the titles of over 325 properties in 42 states. The organization also holds the deeds for about one-fourth of the mosques in the U.S.

    NAIT is closely linked to other Muslim Brotherhood-linked entities.

    Declassified FBI memos dated 1987-1988 show that agency investigators identified NAIT as a foreign-financed Muslim Brotherhood front.

    The same FBI memo cites a source that has traveled worldwide on orders of NAIT, ISNA and the International Institute of Islamic Thought. He is "convinced that this organization has a secret agenda which includes the spread of the Islamic Revolution to all non-Islamic governments in the world which does include the United States." He said that "the entire organization is structured, controlled and funded by followers and supporters  of the Islamic Revolution as advocated by the founders" of Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

    Parent

    You asked and you received. (none / 0) (#158)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 21, 2015 at 07:06:54 PM EST


    Parent
    New (none / 0) (#172)
    by FlJoe on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 08:01:46 AM EST
    ABC/WP Poll Trump and Carsons numbers 32/22 are identical to their last poll, Rubio and Cruz only ticking up slightly.

    The candidates attributes are interesting though, the GOP voters appear to value "change" over experience, go figure.

    May I propose a  new Republican motto "Dope and Change".

    The is hilarious (none / 0) (#175)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 08:50:50 AM EST
    Carson gets voted the most honest and trustworthy and the candidate with the best personality.

    Parent
    Did some work this weekend (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 10:50:36 AM EST
    ...with the guys who bought my business from me last year, all Black.

    You will be refreshed to know that the local Black community considers Carson to be a moron.

    Parent

    So do local hard liners (none / 0) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 11:48:10 AM EST
    But I've wondered if that could possibly have a racial angle.

    For whatever reason they have never taken him seriously around here.  

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#177)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 09:02:26 AM EST
    if you understand evangelicals all you have to know is playing the Jesus card gets you a high rating in that area DESPITE THE FACTS.

    Parent
    I just saw that (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 09:13:46 AM EST
    More than 40% of republican primary voters think unemployment has gone up under Obama.

    Reality is hardly even in the mix.

    Parent

    I read on the Plum Line (none / 0) (#185)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 10:06:01 AM EST
    in the Washington Post that the number was 56%. 56% of republicans believe that the unemployment rate is higher today than in 2009 when Obama took over. My company can't find enough qualified people in multiple locations. I see help wanted signs all over York county when I'm out and about. And I'm not talking just retail and fast food. There's a small industrial park near me, a couple of the company's are constantly posting openings for skilled trades on signs in front of the buildings. You just can't fight stupid.

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    Thanks for the correction (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 10:14:10 AM EST
    And no.   You can't.

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    The problem is that (none / 0) (#195)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 12:15:26 PM EST
    when you reduce the number looking for work then you reduce the U3. The current U6 is 9.8%. The U3 is 5.0.

    And then there is the labor force participation rate.

    As of 10/15 it is 62.4%. You have to go back to 9/77, 8 months into Carter's term to find a worse rate.

    The recovery, if you want to call it that, has not resulted in higher percentage of people participating. The trend has been down.

    Link

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    "Dope and Change". (none / 0) (#180)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 09:08:40 AM EST
    I think we have already had enough of that, 8 years is enough

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    It has been slightly less than (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 10:00:23 AM EST
    7 years since Dubya (last president to complete 8 years as  president) left office. I have to agree that 8 years of his presidency were 8 years too many. But who would have predicted that compared to the occupants of the current Republican clown car, he would have been almost smart if it wasn't for the fact that the changes he made ignited the M.E.

    Parent
    New (none / 0) (#193)
    by FlJoe on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 12:02:14 PM EST
    Fox Poll  28/18 Trump gaining 2 and Carson dropping 5, Cruz and Rubio neck and neck at 14 both up 3.

    Parent
    perhaps (none / 0) (#197)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 01:59:53 PM EST
    perhaps my favorite Adventist, in the tradition of EG White, is self-destructing . . . by media checking on his stories  . . . and his blaming them for it . . .

    The kind of leaves Trump, Rubio and Cruz . . .

    I don't think that the a candidate can win by making it a campaign tactic of insulting all others . . ..

    I have not really looked at the diff between Rubio and Cruz . . .  I think Rubio has made some nice one-liners . . .

    HRC would tend to win, unless foreign policy or terrorism becomes a larger issue . . .  I mean, I like the economy; it is doing as well as could be expected until the US maxes out its credit limit . . .

    My heroes on the man in the high castle are smoking cigarettes--Yuck . . .

    I'll be caned and whipped later today . . . I don't know if Miss Z has decided how bad it will be or if I will get to talk her into being nicer .  . .

    episode 2 . . . we have found out that one important player in the resistance is really a double agent--that caught me by surprise . . .  I am slow and don't watch enough of these spy and war things  . . .  Maybe if I am whipped it will improve my intuition . . .

    Lets all play, Guess My Game.  "Did you learn your game in Hitler Youth?"

     "Yes."

    Parent

    The rant you wish you had written (none / 0) (#194)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 12:12:14 PM EST
    I was going to up andpaste but I decided it was not worth editing the profanity

    LOL

    the man in high castle (none / 0) (#196)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 12:50:52 PM EST
    So, I haphazardly stumbled into keeping my "amazon prime," despite not knowing if I wished to pay for it . . . at least for now . . .

    I am watching episode 1 of it . . . the setting is that Germans and Japs have won WWII and America is occupied as part of the reich and the empire . . . but an American somehow gets ahold a film of an alternate reality . . .

    If you study scriptwriting or screen writing, there is alleged to be a very useful feature.  There is an "inciting incident," which sets things in motion, which upsets a balance, which creates a problem which must be solved or something similar.

    In the case of this philip k dick idea, the whole setting is an inciting incident, from our point of view, because we regard nazi occupation of USA as wrong.

    Some of the japs are a bit more spiritual and the nazis act like nazis and use careless killing and torture to get their way.

    In "our" case we live in a land of at least somewhat freedom.  We are usually, mostly somewhat allowed to critique the gov or to engage in questionable activities.  The gov charges people with espionage crimes for exposing their crimes . . . and the gov charges and imprisons people with child porn for possessing photos that "kids" or friends made of themselves, consciously, for art . . . or, some computer-generated images the gov deems obsene . . . the gov fines and may destroy people for not baking some wedding cakes if they don't like the wedding . . .  At least we get to disagree verbally with certain idiotic actions . . .  At least they don't torture you in prison usually . . . and at least prisoner get to exercise.

    In the case of many US in the high castle story, they wish for a land of greater liberty . . .  in the case of a significant portion of Muslims, they wish for a land of far more restrictions, enforced by law or vigilante violence, such as morality and dress police or lying to imprison people falsely as in Iran . . . prosecuting people for cartoons of Mohammed . . .

    The society they hope for and work for looks more like Iran . . . the society we (or some of us, particularly the Christians) expect and hope for Iran is to evolve to be like ours.

    Anyway, back to the show . . . what will the women do with her new-found film of our USA in 1962?

    Will killing and torture triumph over good?  What is good anyway?

    The Man In The High Castle (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 02:04:37 PM EST
    Full season IGN Review

    The Man in the High Castle, even with all the suspense and intrigue that comes with it, is a uniquely unnerving experience. And I mean that in the best possible way. This is a long, tragic nightmare that not only gives us a glimpse at a world of crushing cruelty, but also - perhaps - a look at ourselves today and the type of tyranny we might easily give in to, acquiesce to, and what atrocities we might accept in the name of our own personal safety. Without getting overly political, this is both an important show and an important show right now. And it's freakin' haunting. There's a reason Philip K. Dick's 1962 novel made such an impact and stuck with so many people over the years - including series creator Frank Spotnitz (The X-Files, Millennium, The Lone Gunmen). It gets in your gut and just sits there, making you feel somewhat sick.

    This is a grim, heavy, and necessary series. It can be a trudge for those used to lighter fare, or - in the very least - anything infused with any sort of levity. There are no bright moments here. Not a lot of smiling going on. Structurally, the second episode of the season, "Sunrise," is one of the bleakest parts of the entire series - though one that also helps spin several characters off in awesome directions. From there, I'd say, the show changes again after the events in Episode 4, "Revelations." And then the through line remains somewhat constant until the final two chapters - which work to upend most everything while also spiking the stealth "sci-fi" element of the show.
    epi #2 (none / 0) (#200)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 02:22:17 PM EST
    Well,

    as someone who believes in good and evil . . . I can sure hope that something good somehow happens in episode 2.  

    A bit more of episode 1 and another betrayal  . . . and I should go become a hermit in a cave . . .  only escaping in the summer to walk around Greenlake . . .

    Parent

    The Man in the High Castle (none / 0) (#201)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 05:12:14 PM EST
    So,

    Is it safe to say that Man in a High Castle is a glimpse of the world............

    Without America in it?

    I would say (none / 0) (#202)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 at 05:40:04 PM EST
    To say that would be to miss the point entirely.

    But that's just me and I have only read the reviews.

    Other than the east/west split of America (none / 0) (#204)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 23, 2015 at 09:49:03 AM EST
    between its Japanese and German conquerors, I don't remember much of the novel.  I haven't read Castle in thirty years.  I do remember the guys toiling away at making high quality fakes for Japanese Americana collectors.  That struck me as funny.

    Performance enhancing drugs (none / 0) (#205)
    by jondee on Wed Nov 25, 2015 at 10:26:19 AM EST
    have been one of war's dirty little secrets at least since WWII..

    "Pep pills" people used to call them..

    Friday Open Thread | 205 comments (205 topical)