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Tuesday Open Thread

Our last open thread is full. Here's a new one as I catch up on the news, all topics welcome.

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    I would love to get BTD's input on (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 12:21:42 PM EST
    whether there has been a violation of the Logan Act with respect to the letter sent to the government of Iran.

    Even if there has been no violation of the Act, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around what appears to be an increasing effort on the part of Republicans to act as if we have no president.  

    The looming question?  What is Obama going to do about it?


    What should/can President Obsma (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 12:36:29 PM EST
    do about the letter other than publicly deride the author and signatories?

    Parent
    I suppose (none / 0) (#3)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 12:43:48 PM EST
    he could ask the DOJ to investigate, but of course he won't.

    Parent
    Investigate? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:09:58 PM EST
    Whether the signatures are forged?

    Parent
    I don't know... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 12:47:01 PM EST
    the Logan Act from the Riot Act, but the letter reeks of treason to me.

    As did the bl&wjob the GOP gave Netan-yahoo during his visit to Congress.

    Parent

    Déjà vu, again (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by NYShooter on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 11:04:13 PM EST
    A while back I wrote a post alluding to an informal get-together I attended in Palo Alto, Ca. Not to name drop, but, what made this gathering memorable was the standing, and background of the participants, and, the subject of their conversation. Finally, these were not your average "Joe's" sitting around, drinking beer, and shooting the breeze. These were extremely successful corporate founders and CEO'S. Their Alma Maters consisted of a who's who of the lucky 1% Universities. Names like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, U.C. (Berkley,) and several international standouts filled the list.

    Now, the reason I mention these attribute is to emphasize the point that this was a serious discussion, conducted by serious people. And, also, so that you don't, reflexively scoff, and write-off this talk as just a bunch of jerks talking nonsense.

    The topic of the discussion was, "Treason," and whether the Republican Party might have crossed that line with some of their actions during the period of, let's say, from Bill Clinton's first term....on?

    To add some perspective, and validity, to this topic, consider this:
    Laurence D. Fink, Chairman & Chief Executive Officer of BlackRock, the world's largest asset manager (Funds under management, four trillion dollars) was a guest on the Charlie Rose Show the other night. Charlie asked him, "as we sit here today, what is the greatest threat to America's national security?" His answer surprised me. It wasn't something from the list of problems we all know about: Global warming, China/Russia/The M.E, wealth disparity, and, so on. His answer was, emphatically, "our dysfunctional Congress."

    Now, I could go on for hours expanding on his answer, but, let me try to simplify what he meant. He stated that, while the world is faced with some of the greatest, existential problems civilization has ever faced, the greatest, richest, most powerful, and furthest advanced nation on earth, The United States, sits there, paralyzed, and dormant. Not only does it sit there, inactive & useless, but certain elements within the government are, actively and purposely, working full time to maintain that debilitating status quo. What makes it even more pernicious is that solutions to our problems exist, yet these elements consider it their duty to see to it that these solutions are not only not implemented, but work to make sure any actions taken to fix a problem are met with failure.

    Of course, Mr. Fink didn't name a name, or a specific Party that's responsible for this situation. I imagine he figured you could fill in those blanks yourself.

    So, in light of what I just tried to lay out here, and, in light of Laurence Fink's assertion as to what is the greatest threat America faces, why wouldn't actions taken that assist and promote America's decline, and, that threaten its very existence, .....why wouldn't it be considered Treason?


    Parent

    Epilogue...... (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by NYShooter on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 04:59:51 PM EST
    New York Times, 3/11/15

    "Washington (AFP) - More than 155,000 people by Wednesday had signed a petition to the White House urging charges be filed against 47 Republican senators who they say committed "treasonous" offenses by writing Iran's leaders about ongoing nuclear negotiations."

    Parent

    My husband is freaked out (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:17:27 PM EST
    Says the whole post is.  Who THEIR boss is is not questionable.  And the military is downsizing so if you believe that maybe Obama isn't your one and only boss you answer to and who leads all hostile negotiations, you are pretty free to leave right now.

    Parent
    As usual, (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Zorba on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:22:40 PM EST
    Andy Borowitz has a very funny take on this.

    Parent
    No one (none / 0) (#18)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:19:31 PM EST
    Has ever been charged under the Logan Act.

    There's also the argument - at least one a defense attorney might make - is that this was not a negotiating document, but an exercise of free speech.  (And, members if Congress, it could be argued, enjoy governmental immunity).  

    Parent

    First time for everything (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:22:39 PM EST
    True, except (none / 0) (#21)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:27:31 PM EST
    Since the Democrats have done the same kind of things in the past, more than once, (see, for example, the "Dear Comandante" letter), nothing will happen because then it becomes a long drawn out inside-baseball fight.

    This is pure political theater meant to provoke a reaction of outrage and it worked.

    Parent

    No, this isn't "pure political theater." (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:53:52 PM EST
    jbindc: "Since the Democrats have done the same kind of things in the past, more than once, (see, for example, the 'Dear Comandante' letter), nothing will happen because then it becomes a long drawn out inside-baseball fight. This is pure political theater meant to provoke a reaction of outrage and it worked."

    Rather, this is part of an open, direct, purposeful and concerted effort to undermine the present multilateral international negotiations with Iran -- no less so than inviting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to address a joint session of Congress and do the same, without even bothering to first inform either the State Dept. or the White House of that invitation.

    The enabling paragraph of the Logan Act (18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments) reads as follows:

    "Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both."

    The U.S. Senate enjoys the authority under the Constitution to either ratify by two-thirds majority or reject any treaty that has been negotiated by the president on behalf of the United States and presented to the Senate for its approval -- emphasis on the term "has been negotiated," as in past tense and already concluded.

    But as I would understand the law, what senators and any other citizens of this country are expressly NOT authorized to do is the following:

    • State or imply to a foreign power that they represent the legitimate interests of the United States, without first obtaining the expressed permission or prior concurrence of the executive branch;

    • Conduct private negotiations with a foreign power for private or personal purposes, without first obtaining the expressed permission or prior concurrence of the executive branch;

    • Seek for personal or private purposes to represent the interests of a foreign power, either in this country or abroad, without first obtaining the expressed permission or prior concurrence of the executive branch; or

    • Otherwise seek to interfere with ongoing and legitimate diplomatic efforts of the president and his / her duly authorized representatives with respect to a foreign power, for the purpose of either hindering or sabotaging his / her present relations and / or negotiations with that foreign power.

    At the very least, congressional Republicans are thumbing their noses publicly at President Obama's constitutional authority as both the country's chief executive and its chief diplomat, thus violating longstanding protocols.

    In so doing, their personal conduct disrespects the Constitution's provisions regarding the separation of powers, and jeopardizes the country's national security on an issue no less than nuclear proliferation. Their open disdain and thinly veiled hatred for this president has led them to cross a boundary which no citizen, regardless of his / her position and rank, should ever breach. By all rights, there can and perhaps should be legal consequences for those actions.

    And if you find that to be entertaining, given the present high stakes involved here, then you are clearly detached from the reality of the present situation, and are someone whose false equivalencies and frivolous opinions should not be taken seriously in this particular public discussion.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    When all is said & done: This is sad (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by christinep on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:25:45 PM EST
    The letter from the 47 Repub Senators (aka #47traitors) has reached the point of sad, for me.  Sure, I can come up with words to describe what I and many others feel in terms of that letter.  The problem is that my reaction starts with phrases like "beyond the pale" and more.  

    Senator Harry Reid, in his remarks on the matter, called a lot of it what it is ... the unwillingness to admit that Barack Obama is our President and has been elected twice by American citizens. Reid spoke about the repellent singularity of the act, the undermining of the Commander-in-Chief and of our country.  While I am not one to parade around with flag pins and other paraphernalia, I almost cried here.  There do not appear to be any barriers any more--written or unwritten--as these 47 have acted as if nothing matters, institutionally or otherwise, than their hatred or disdain for the President's exercise of constitutional prerogatives.

    The New York Daily News screaming bold-type front page (with pictures of 4 of the 47) says what my own gut says: "Traitors."  Frankly, ever since that forgotten know-nothing yelled "You lie" to the President at a State of the Union address a few years back, it felt like we were crossing a line.  There is a reason for protocol; there is a reason why respect for the Constitution and its offices are so significant in our long-lived democratic republic.  

    Today I can't really find it in me to be angry so much as being heavily sad.

    Parent

    What it really was? (5.00 / 5) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:32:23 PM EST
    Tom Cotton hitting the wing nut Gspot.  It's his coming out party.  His debutant ball. His grabbing the spotlight from Cruz and saying look out world there is a new word for dangerously crazy, Cotton.

    Parent
    You don't think there's any chance (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:43:37 PM EST
    He's some sort of idiot?  His wiki doesn't line out his work history well at all. No years for when he went to college or practiced law when with who. His military service is remarkably well defined. Is the missing info deliberate?

    He seems somewhat secretive.

    Parent

    I don't thnk many (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:54:54 PM EST
    Idiots graduate Harvard magna cum laude.

    did you look at his wiki

    After graduating from Harvard magna cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Government,[5] he went on to Harvard Law School, where he was taught by Elizabeth Warren.[6] He received his J.D. degree in June 2002.[3][7]


    Parent
    Did he say when he was running (none / 0) (#104)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 10:01:59 PM EST
    Why he gave up his law career and enlisted and applied for OCS?  It's just odd.  Unless he always planned on this political career.  In which case he has done everything perfectly and means to be President.  

    Parent
    Bingo (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 10:02:50 PM EST
    Even the possible wedding coverage (none / 0) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 10:06:01 PM EST
    Was controlled to the nth degree.  It's like a real life Frank Underwood.

    Parent
    Prediction (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 10:04:01 PM EST
    if Hillary wins he will run against her in '20

    Parent
    I would say maybe (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 10:05:47 PM EST
    even try for it next year but I think he's to smart for that.

    Parent
    I feel really threatened (none / 0) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 10:10:56 PM EST
    He isn't going to take stupid P90X photos or text his junk.  And he likes exceptionalism ideology and war along with today's basic Republican voter.


    Parent
    Be afraid (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 10:27:43 PM EST
    and he is very good.  I saw him once and he was so smooth I was reminded of once in the early 80s when my sister took me to hear Clinton and she said, 'see that guy? He's gonna be president some day'.

    Parent
    His areas of military service (none / 0) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 10:46:52 PM EST
    Were some of the most difficult.  If he did well, this man is very self disciplined and driven.  He had no longevity though in any of it.  Possibly didn't build any deep character?

    Some of his rhetoric has been over the top but it's what his base wants. Will he snap if intellectually challenged enough?  Because if he remains cool headed they will follow him.

    Seldom do you find such an unbearable abusive to living things tight ass with that kind of charisma.  They usually end up burning everyone out and burning them down if you get stuck in their inner circle.  They are incredibly taxing people, at least in the military they are.  They burn their people up. They eat their own.

    Parent

    One can be book smart (none / 0) (#112)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 10:54:13 PM EST
    And stil be a doofus in real life.  One of the children of the surgeon who operated on my mother successfully once told me that their dad could probably build a microwave from parts, but hector wouldn't know how to work it.

    Exhibit B:  Dr. Ben Carson, who thinks that prison rape proves that being a homosexual is a choice.

    Parent

    I think Ted Cruz has revealed himself (none / 0) (#168)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 06:57:18 PM EST
    To be a doofus :)

    Parent
    ... on Sen. Cotton's part to demonstrate his domestic political bona fides to the GOP's emergent wingbat wing, by allying himself with Iranian hardliners and attempting to blow up sensitive multilateral nuclear negotiations which involve not just the U.S. and Iran, but also Britain, France, Germany, Russia and China as well.

    To be perfectly honest, I don't find any humor whatsoever in what he and the rest of that dimwitted ship of fools did here, nor can I blithely dismiss their act as nothing more than domestic political kabuki. Right now, I'm as royally pissed off at the GOP as I've ever been since George W. Bush's first term in office.

    Did any of these hatemongering, No. 2-for-brains idjits even pause for one moment to consider how their public letter to Iran could unduly compromise the ability of the administration to protect both the country's safety and American interests and lives in the Middle East or NATO countries? No, they quite obviously did not, given how flatfooted they've been caught by the mounting public anger enveloping them right now.

    Instead, these a$$holes chose to place their own hatred for Barack Obama ahead of our nation's long-term well-being, by announcing publicly to the entire globe that in their estimation, our twice-elected president doesn't speak for either Congress or the American people, and harda$$ed nutballs the world over can thus defy him and the United States as they may see fit.

    This is not some mere "tempest in a teapot," as America's Grump-in-Chief John McCain (who's one of the 47 a$$wipes who signed onto this diplomatic travesty) tried to characterize it earlier this afternoon.

    Time can only tell whether their actions will affect the end game here, were the ayatollahs to somehow conclude that they'd be taking an undue political risk themselves by putting their faith in a deal which, according to our own self-styled 47 Ronin, is all but dead on arrival regardless of its provisions. After all, Iran's leaders have their own far-right malcontents to consider.

    With what's happened in D.C. these past few days, the Republicans have all but forfeited their right to further political consideration. Personally, they make me want to take a 5,000-mile plane ride over there, just so I can walk into the Capitol and dope-slap a few of these jackasses. And no jury would ever convict me for it.

    The

    Parent

    Is public anger enveloping them Donald? (none / 0) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 11:03:22 PM EST
    Where I live, the local residents will celebrate Cotton.

    Parent
    Worth noting (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 11:11:10 PM EST
    that the response in that comment is pretty much precisely the one the action was intended to provoke.  

    Ps
    Morning Joe is on his side.  I done see much enveloping.  even this HuffPo with the provocative title "republicans blaming Cotton" this what blame looks like-

    Corker, who is leading the push for a veto-proof majority on the bill to grant Congress oversight of a nuclear agreement, did not sign letter, which was organized by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.). Nevertheless, he showed no signs of ill will toward his junior colleague.

    "No, no, no," Corker responded, when asked if he was concerned Cotton's letter would cost the bill much-needed Democratic votes.



    Parent
    I don't think said it was responsible (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 11:05:16 PM EST
    and I certainly didn't say it was funny.  I said it was brilliant.  Politically.

    seen this clip from morning Joe.

    this is an interesting in depth from the Atlantic from the last election

    Parent

    I think Donald is just upset (none / 0) (#119)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 11:11:42 PM EST
    The more I read about this ring leader, the more concerned I am.  And of course where you and I live the whole crew will be wildly celebrated and there will be no talking them out of the tree.

    If there is a God, Netanyahu will go down because of all this.  We will have to cripple Cotton when we can.

    Parent

    Ted Cruz (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by christinep on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 01:22:21 PM EST
    Yes, I remember when Ted Cruz was said to have been renown for his "brilliance."  'Curious how Mr. Ted, now, & Mr. Cotton will hit it off? (Maybe old-fashioned "triangulation" will come in handy to someone.)

    Parent
    did you see this on Snopes? (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 11:20:04 PM EST
    I didn't know much about Tom Cotton (none / 0) (#96)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:35:32 PM EST
    Went to read after Howdy described how dangerous he is.  After reading, all I can muster is dread.  The author of the letter appears to be an extremely dangerous astute brand spanking new GOP senator. I think the left may be in the fight of our lives.

    Parent
    I overheard a conversation (none / 0) (#98)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:41:29 PM EST
    among a group of yahoos in the hospital waiting room today.  He is a freaking hero.  What he did was politically brilliant.


    Parent
    Oh good God (none / 0) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:46:40 PM EST
    But of course.

    This really threw my spouse today because he had just stepped out of monitoring a military ethics class all morning when someone told him about the 47.

    Parent

    Short of imprisoning them (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:59:19 PM EST
    there is nothing the press or the democrats can do that will not simply add to his cachet.

    Parent
    Captain, Tom Cotton (none / 0) (#159)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 04:10:33 PM EST
    is very bright and seems to have , or had, set a presidential path for himself.  Just a short time in the House and he announced for the Senate.  To complete the political resume, he married in 2014 in his mid thirties. Maybe true love, but I wonder about that part which may explain some of his seeming internalized oppression.  And, perhaps, appearances.

     He has a long career, from what I can determine, as a reactionary, including writings while at Harvard.  His method of government follows tenets of Il Duce (e.g., his proposed House Amendment to punish any family member automatically who violates US sanctions against Iran, including spouse, any relative to the third degree--with jail terms of up to 20 years (ie. parents, children aunts, uncles nephews, nieces, grandparents, great grandparents, grand kids, and great grand kids).  Even fellow wingers advised that he withdraw his amendment.

    He wrote an open letter to the NYTimes in 2006 criticizing the publication of an article on Bush's monitoring of terrorist finances.  Cotton called for  the jailing of the journalists including the editor, Bill Keller, for espionage (oops.)  

    Cotton is a darling of the military armaments associations which will provide him with a lot of cash.  And, of course, there is Sheldon Adelson who will be there for him since those minds think alike on Iran.  Arkansas does not permit running for two federal offices, I understand, which would cause some problems for him in 2020 when he is up for senate re-election.  However, his Arkansas friends are already planning to change that hurdle for him.

    But, I sure agree with you, Cotton took a leaf from Cruz's book on being an upstart senator and ran with it.  He is very smart and very dangerous.  

    Parent

    Looks like Pelosi violated the law (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:25:21 PM EST
    Per your comment:

    State or imply to a foreign power that they represent the legitimate interests of the United States, without first obtaining the expressed permission or prior concurrence of the executive branch;

    After a meeting with Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad in Damascus, Ms. Pelosi announced that she had delivered a message from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that "Israel was ready to engage in peace talks" with Syria. What's more, she added, Mr. Assad was ready to "resume the peace process" as well. Having announced this seeming diplomatic breakthrough, Ms. Pelosi suggested that her Kissingerian shuttle diplomacy was just getting started. "We expressed our interest in using our good offices in promoting peace between Israel and Syria," she said.

    Only one problem: The Israeli prime minister entrusted Ms. Pelosi with no such message. "What was communicated to the U.S. House Speaker does not contain any change in the policies of Israel," said a statement quickly issued by the prime minister's

    And this:

    Mr. Bush said that thanks to the speaker's freelancing Mr. Assad was getting mixed messages from the United States. Ms. Pelosi responded by pointing out that Republican congressmen had visited Syria without drawing presidential censure. That's true enough -- but those other congressmen didn't try to introduce a new U.S. diplomatic initiative in the Middle East.

    Washington Post

    Parent

    By your own repeated and foolish statements as a perpetual apologist for the politically insane, you proved yourself to have no credible standing on these matters. You're no more to be taken seriously than our own resident Beltway diva. Both of you can take your false equivalencies and park them where the sun doesn't shine.

    Parent
    Outrage on whose part? (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:30:55 PM EST
    You seem pretty outraged (none / 0) (#25)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:35:23 PM EST
    The administration is pages (or feigning outrage because they have to).

    But nothing is going to come of this.

    Parent

    I shouldn't have a reaction (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:42:52 PM EST
    To the Republican Party attempting to circumvent the authority of the elected President?  Really?

    Parent
    To be honest... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:46:19 PM EST
    circumventing the president doesn't bother me so much...trying to circumvent peaceful resolutions and better relations with Iran going forward bothers me quite a bit.

    Parent
    And war is the failure of diplomacy (none / 0) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:50:38 PM EST
    Can't think of anything that weakens the process more than terrorists claiming they speak for a nation too, particularly when they lust for this war.

    Parent
    I just saw McCain's Facebook page (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:52:54 PM EST
    He changed his photo to Je Suis Bibi :)

    Parent
    Figures.... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:00:03 PM EST
    The will of the American people was to rebuke McCain's foreign policy ideas...Bibi's will means more to him than ours I guess.

    Parent
    Shrug (none / 0) (#33)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:46:53 PM EST
    You didn't seem to have a reaction to the SoS trying to circumvent the Federal Records Act or directive of the President of the United States re: transparency.

    So, no, your outrage isn't all that interesting.

    Parent

    Are you really equating (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by christinep on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:38:20 PM EST
    email procedural issues to overt actions by sworn members of Congress to undermine/upend/undo the Executive's/the Commander-in-Chief's foreign policy initiative to reach agreement with another sovereign nation?  Hillary Clinton wondered today whether those 47 were trying to befriend Iran & Iranians or trying to undermine our duly elected President?

    I'd suggest that equating any internal agency procedures with trying to interfere with and hinder the President's foreign policy prerogative as to agreements should be listed as a "false equivalency."

    Parent

    Because THAT was a faux issue (none / 0) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:56:39 PM EST
    And the emails had all been previously released

    Parent
    The administration (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:36:02 PM EST
    Serms outraged - not pages

    Parent
    They shouldn't be? (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:39:11 PM EST
    Sure (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:44:25 PM EST
    But they aren't going to DO anything about it, aside from stomping their  feet, so it just adds to the theater.

    Honestly, there are more important things they can be outraged about that ACTUALLY have to with this country's foreign policy.  The fact that 47 Senators signed a letter is not one of them.

    Parent

    Active duty military feels very differently (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:48:12 PM EST
    About all this.

    Parent
    By Active Duty Military... (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:28:04 PM EST
    ...you mean your husband ?

    I know you aren't seriously making a claim about the entire military.  Good Gravy.

    Parent

    Me too Scott (none / 0) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 05:43:29 PM EST
    When my friends and family go to war, it turns MY life upside down. When Republicans disturb the good order and discipline of all the soldiers in my life it turns my life upside down.  So my spouse can serve, a family plan requires that I be able to immediately become a single parent and manage all the family stress with the he other parent being in a war zone in an instant. When I go do anything on post, like go to my assigned doctor, I give up many of my Constitutional rights just entering the post.  I don't own my medical records either.  My son has to be specifically registered with DOD as an EMFP.  I could go on and on how my life is nothing like your girlfriend's life and at this point could never be with a soldier as a spouse.  Before 9/11 there wasn't the sort of stress that there is now, now there is a lot of stress.

    Parent
    What ?? (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 09:04:44 AM EST
    I am trying to follow the logic here, you make a claim about the military, I call you out on it, then you go into a rant about why it sucks to be in the military in war time.  

    All of in a thread about a letter from some of the republicans in Congress to Iran.

    Whatever, just stop implying that you speak for everyone in the military.

    Parent

    I realize I have become your "project" (none / 0) (#128)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 10:05:38 AM EST
    Now

    Just pointing out that what affects the military deeply affects all military families.  I thought since 9/11 that was a reality everyone understood.

    The area my husband works in was pretty freaked out yesterday by what the 47 did.  I was too.  What else does the Harvard lawyer have planned to destroy diplomacy?  One of my friends reminds me today of John McCain dancing and singing to bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran as well. War with Iran is something Conservatives and obviously some of the 47 long for.

    I wish you would find a different "project"

    Parent

    Oh Pleaze... (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 12:52:15 PM EST
    ...the discussion was about republican sending a letter to Iran.  Some how you have conflated into being about military families and that you speak for them all.

    If calling someone out occasionally for BS makes them my project, then consider yourself a project.  Want to not be a project, quit pretending you speak for others.  You don't.

    In case you lost the memo, the military tends to be more republican than democrat.  Many of those people you think you speak for voted for the tools who sent the letter.  Many even voted for John McCain, who as you mentioned, would love to bomb Iran.

    Instead of just admitting you were wrong, you are going to play victim and act like you wrote someone other than this yesterday:

    Active duty military feels very differently about all this.
    The 'This' being the letter to Iran.

    Stop projecting your opinion & your husbands opinion onto the entire military.

    Parent

    I foresee an opportunity (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:35:47 PM EST
    For a few hiding Keeeerazy military leaders to visit their treasonous wrapped opinions on all of us.  Circumstances such as these usually shakes a few out and then they are shown out, leaving the world a slightly better place :)

    Parent
    Free Speech (none / 0) (#70)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 04:18:09 PM EST
    Free speech is an individual right, not a right of a governmental body, no ?  And if they make that claim doesn't the LA apply to individuals.  

    Couldn't I make the same claim while violating the act ?

    Either way something has to be done, we can't have petitions from government officials being sent to foreign governments trying to undermine authority because they disagree.

    If they do nothing, it's not going to stop in this climate IMO.

    Parent

    From what I have read (none / 0) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:59:22 PM EST
    the Logan Act would not apply and the only time it would have applied was when Richard Nixon was negotiating with Vietnam secretely. My understanding is it must be a citizen negotiating against the best interests of the country.

    These bozos have just made the GOP an international laughingstock.

    Parent

    That's what my husband says (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:05:57 PM EST
    Well, he said something a little different, he said they just scared the britches off the Independent vote.  He said this and the SAE sing along have freaked out the Independent voter.  I do not have an Indy mindset.  I must take his word for it.

    Parent
    Unless there's a precipitous drop (none / 0) (#52)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:28:48 PM EST
    In the polls, she'll still have a double digit lead over any challengers for the forseeable future.  By the time next year rolls around, events will have driven this onto the back-burner and her reaction to said events will determine how the Indys will vote in November.

    Parent
    He's (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:32:59 PM EST
    probably right. The GOP keeps doubling down on stupid. I mean who in their right mind wants a crazy person in charge of the country except for other crazy people?

    Parent
    The crazies don't think they're crazy. (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:18:20 PM EST
    The inimitable Charlie Pierce:

    Cotton stands revealed as a true fanatic. He's stalwart in his convictions as regards things about which he knows exactly dick. What he and practically every Republican in the Senate did was nothing short of a slow-motion, partial coup d'etat. It was not quite treason, and it was not quite a violation of the Logan Act, no matter how dearly some of us might wish it was. (Imagine the howls if the Justice Department actually inquired into that possibility, which it certainly has a right to do. Lindsey Graham might never rise from the fainting couch.) But it stands in history with Richard Nixon's grotesque sabotage of the Paris Peace Talks in 1968 and with whatever it was that the Reagan campaign did to monkeywrench the possible release of the American hostages from their captivity in Iran in 1980. It is an act of unconscionable and perilous presumption, reckless at its base and heedless of eventual consequences. Nobody elected Tom Cotton or the rest of these clowns to undermine the ability of this president to conduct foreign policy. (Nobody elected Bibi Netanyahu to do it, either, as sad as this might make Jen Rubin.) It long has been acceptable on the respectable American right to call this president practically anything. It now is acceptable on the respectable American right to do anything to thwart his ability to conduct his office. A twice-elected president must bow to the uneducated whims of the representative of 478,819 Arkansans. We have fallen through the looking glass and left it far behind.

    Un-fking-believable.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:29:31 PM EST
    that has kind of been my point. They don't think they're crazy. They're a freaking apocalyptic cult. And the insane are the ones who are going to be picking their presidential nominee.

    Parent
    Apocalyptic cult :) (none / 0) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 05:59:58 PM EST
    Like...........ISIS

    Parent
    NOT ME! (none / 0) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:36:29 PM EST
    And they appear just gonzo

    Parent
    Looking (none / 0) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:09:28 PM EST
    at them and you can see we definitely have a shortage of mental health facilities in the country.

    Parent
    Would you also like a ruling on (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:02:39 PM EST
    Pelosi's trip to Syria in 4/07???

    Parent
    Members (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:12:02 PM EST
    of congress go overseas all the time to talk to digintaries not to negotiate with them.

    Anyway it's just yet one more example that the GOP cannot govern.

    Parent

    "A horse that kicks everyone who tries (none / 0) (#62)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:19:59 PM EST
    to harness and guide him may be a pioneer of liberty, but he is not a pioneer of government,"

    Bernard Shaw

    Parent

    et al (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 06:41:21 PM EST
    My comment was meant, and I think it did, that both sides have played the game. Pelosi got her arm neck deep in foreign affairs. That was okay by you but you want to complain that the Repubs shouldn't do so.

    And if you want to really a Senator intervening:

     

    If these progressives want to know what actual treason looks like, they should consult liberal lion Ted Kennedy, who not only allegedly sent secret messages to the Soviets in the midst of the cold war, he also begged them to intervene in a U.S. presidential election in order to unseat President Ronald Reagan. That's no exaggeration.

    According to Soviet documents unearthed in the early 1990′s, Kennedy literally asked the Soviets, avowed enemies of the U.S., to intervene on behalf of the Democratic party in the 1984 elections. Kennedy's communist communique was so secret that it was not discovered until 1991, eight years after Kennedy had initiated his Soviet gambit:

    Link


    Parent

    Saw it (none / 0) (#77)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 06:47:41 PM EST
    on the internet it must be true. At least they used allegedly so its not total hackery.

    Parent
    Jim apparently didn't see my reply to him (none / 0) (#88)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 07:53:59 PM EST
    on the Sunday thread, so here goes:

    I don't think there is anything to it, but lets investigate Hillary and everyone else up the old wahzoo, Democrat, Republican, whatever, who so much as sent one official e-mail while holding some sort of public office from a personal account in the last 20 years, and then let the chips fall where they may.



    Parent
    Sorry, Jim, the charge of hypocrisy (none / 0) (#87)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 07:50:26 PM EST
    Isn't any truer the 65th time you post it than the first time.  

    Now, if you want to go ahead that working for peace in the ME was against the policy of the Bush Administration at that point in time, you'll get no disagreement here.

    And don't get tiresome and compare the Iranians to the Nazis

    You and Lindsay Graham should get matching fainting couches.

    Parent

    That old myth? (none / 0) (#59)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:11:46 PM EST

    LIE: Nancy Pelosi violated the Logan Act

    TRUTH

    The Logan Act doesn't prevent members of Congress from speaking to foreign governments

    When Pelosi visited Syria in 2007, critics claimed that she had violated the Logan Act, which is a federal law that prohibits U.S. citizens from negotiating on behalf of the United States without authorization. But the law does not appear to bar members of Congress from speaking with foreign leaders.

    According to a 1975 State Department statement, which was noted in a February 1, 2006, report on the Logan Act by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service: "The clear intent of this provision ... is to prohibit unauthorized persons from intervening in disputes between the United States and foreign governments. Nothing in [the law], however, would appear to restrict members of the Congress from engaging in discussions with foreign officials in pursuance of their legislative duties under the Constitution."



    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#67)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:46:58 PM EST
    point everyone seems to to be missing is that this letter coming so quickly after Bibi's speech, almost like action-reaction. An end run around Obama, and other world powers, is dubious at best, but seemingly assisting a foreign leader to squash diplomacy HE doesn't like smells like Treason to me.

    Parent
    Here's a good primer (none / 0) (#68)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:51:13 PM EST
    IMO (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 06:52:58 PM EST
    the discouraging thing is that from this to Bibi this just seems to be the poisonous political state of affairs.  No one seems that surprised.

    I am filled with pride that our brand new wingnut yahoo Arkansas senator is behind it.

    Parent

    To clarify (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 07:22:11 PM EST
    it isn't that there is no response, there is, the hashtag the petition.  But take a moment to consider what would be happening if it was a republican president and democratic senators.

    They would probably be rounded up and shot by now.  Or at least on route to Gitmo.

    Parent

    When I saw (none / 0) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 07:46:06 PM EST
    Tom Cotton was leading this charge I was thinking about you.

    Johnny Isakson who probably doesn't qualify for the wingnut brigade and has had in the past a reputation as a moderate signed on and has apparently completely gone over the edge. The fundamentalist radicalism has even made him diseased. Sad.

    Parent

    Be warned (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 07:59:56 PM EST
    Cotton is a dangerous man.  Harvard magna cum laude, vet, smart, ambitious and pure evil.

    Parent
    I will (none / 0) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 08:53:24 PM EST
    certainly take your word for it. The evil is obvious. He wants to set off World War 3 everybody else be damned.

    Parent
    More like Armageddon (none / 0) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:06:25 PM EST
    No kidding (none / 0) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 08:58:16 PM EST
    Right after attempting to destroy diplomacy efforts with Iran he then goes into a closed meeting with lobbyists for defense contractors?  I don't even know what to think after discovering that.  

    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:04:48 PM EST
    he is no clown.  He ain'teven a Ted Cruz educated level clown.  Take the threat seriously.

    Parent
    The Missouri Supreme Court announced Monday (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 12:50:05 PM EST
    The Missouri Supreme Court announced Monday it was placing a state judge in charge of cases in Ferguson, Mo., a decision that came after the Justice Department lambasted the city's municipal court system as harmful and aimed only at boosting revenue.

    Meanwhile, the city's municipal judge, Ronald J. Brockmeyer, who was criticized in the Justice Department's report for creating court fees that were described as "abusive and may be unlawful," said in a statement that he had resigned his post.

    [...] The Justice Department made multiple recommendations for reforming the court system there, even as investigators noted that they found many people who had encountered problems with heavy fines from multiple courts in the region.

    "Extraordinary action is warranted in Ferguson, but the Court also is examining reforms that are needed on a statewide basis," Russell said.

    Statewide reforms sounds good to me. I hope other states climb on the bandwagon too.

    Maybe his resignation has something to (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    do with this revelation:

    The judge in Ferguson, Missouri, who is accused of fixing traffic tickets for himself and colleagues while inflicting a punishing regime of fines and fees on the city's residents, also owes more than $170,000 in unpaid taxes.

    Ronald J Brockmeyer, whose court allegedly jailed impoverished defendants unable to pay fines of a few hundred dollars, has a string of outstanding debts to the US government dating back to 2007, according to tax filings obtained by the Guardian from authorities in Missouri.

    [...]

    Brockmeyer, who has been Ferguson's municipal court judge for 12 years, serves simultaneously as a prosecutor in two nearby cities and as a private attorney. Legal experts said his potentially conflicting interests illustrate a serious problem in the region's judicial system. Brockmeyer, who reportedly earns $600 per shift as a prosecutor, said last year his dual role benefited defendants. "I see both sides of it," he said. "I think it's even better."

    I guess that whole "personal responsibility" thing is for other people.

    Parent

    effing amazing. I do so hope he spends (none / 0) (#154)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 03:50:56 PM EST
    some time in a Ferguson jail.

    Parent
    Linkage (none / 0) (#6)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 12:51:07 PM EST
    Amen Brother... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 12:57:41 PM EST
    It's not a humane or civilized way to raise necessary revenue, that's what property/sales/income taxes are for.

    The rub is those with the most government influence are the least likely to be effected or face hardship due to municipal fines, and the most likely to face tax increases.  Tough nut to crack.

    Parent

    Oh sh*t!... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:03:06 PM EST
    Speak of the devil, look who owes Uncle Sam 170 grand...the (Dis)Honorable Ronald J. Brockmeyer!

    Another wrinkle...he's a practicing prosecutor in 2 other Missouri cities, while also being a municipal judge in Ferguson?  How could that be?    

    Parent

    To the best of my knowledge, (none / 0) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:59:29 PM EST
    he still holds positions in other North County cities. From his bio:

    Ron currently serves as the Municipal Judge for the cities of Ferguson and Breckenridge Hills, and as the Municipal Prosecutor for the cities of Florissant, Vinita Park and Dellwood.

    I haven't read anything locally that states he was relieved of his duties in Breckenridge Hills, Florissant, Vinita Park or Dellwood.

    Parent

    I will have to check (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:23:18 PM EST
    and see if my city plans to continue to employ him. There is the possibility that I will see the Mayor at an event Thursday, I will have to ask him if I get the chance.

    Parent
    PINE LAWN (KMOV.com) - Anthony Gray seemed to be everywhere. As an attorney for Mike Brown's family, Gray received international attention, blasting the city of Ferguson and insisting Officer Darren Wilson should be arrested for killing Brown.

    However, at the same time Gray was turning up the heat on Ferguson, he was also the Director of Public Safety, and commonly referred to as the police chief, of nearby Pine Lawn. Pine Lawn is a small, impoverished, nearly all black community with a police department widely considered to be one of the worst in the St. Louis region.

    Gray was in charge of the Pine Lawn Police Department for most of 2014. His top commander was Steve Blakeney, a cop who has been accused of raping one woman, punching another, and was accused of harassing residents who repeatedly filed complaints against him. Blakeney has denied all the allegations made against him.

    [...]

    Before becoming Pine Lawn's equivalent of a police chief, Gray was the city prosecutor, a critical role in the town's approach to collecting massive amounts of money through its municipal court.  He has now resumed his role as the town's prosecutor. In 2013 and 2014, Pine Lawn collected $3.5 million in court fines and fees, which accounted for almost half the city's general revenue.



    Parent
    Yes, it is often a small world (none / 0) (#71)
    by MO Blue on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 04:23:42 PM EST
    More on the STL area: (none / 0) (#72)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 05:16:28 PM EST
    While statistics alone are not clear-cut proof of discrimination, there are cities around St. Louis with far greater racial disparities in traffic stops than Ferguson, and cities with court systems that appear even more predatory than the Justice Department says Ferguson's is. According to a report from Better Together, a nonprofit group, Ferguson does not even rank among the top 20 municipalities in St. Louis County in the percentage of its budget drawn from court fines and fees. The small city of Edmundson, five miles away, brings in nearly $600 a year in court fines for every resident, more than six times the amount in Ferguson.

    [...]

    Officials in nearby cities rejected any comparison to Ferguson.

    "You don't dismantle the whole house in order to kill one bug," said Mayor Patrick Green of Normandy, who is black. He said that his police force had issued more citations since state agencies asked it to help patrol Interstate 70, and that the money had been used to pay for public safety. "Everyone's saying, `Oh, no, that's cities just taking advantage of the poor,' " he said. "When did the poor get the right to commit crimes?"



    Parent
    Just saw a news flash about Ferguson. (none / 0) (#142)
    by caseyOR on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 01:41:35 PM EST
    The police chief will resign later today.

    Parent
    Good (none / 0) (#143)
    by MO Blue on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 01:53:07 PM EST
    But I am surprised that it is occurring. From what I'm hearing from my Ferguson aquaintances, the white population is of the opinion that the DOJ should but out. It is none of their business and it should be left up to the residents of the city.

    Parent
    difference. Which probably depends a lot on whether the city changes its focus on revenue-generation.

    Parent
    I also hope that the changes (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by MO Blue on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 02:19:45 PM EST
    make a difference and agree that a lot depends on whether or not the city changes its focus on revenue_generation.

    I would like to see Ferguson survive this and become a better place for all of its residents. As much as I have railed against its police and court system, Ferguson has many good things going for them as well.

    Parent

    New info on Ferguson Mayor (none / 0) (#147)
    by MO Blue on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 02:33:52 PM EST
    Indeed, as the DOJ report and others have discovered, much of Ferguson's "offender-funded" criminal justice system and municipal budget begins with exorbitant moving and parking violations that then spiral into a ruinous cycle of debts, fines, and fees.
    ...
    The company that contracts out Ferguson's red light cameras, American Traffic Solutions, settled a class action lawsuit in Missouri forcing it to refund 20 percent of all 900,000 tickets the company issued in the state since 2005. Missouri's state Supreme Court is expected to rule this year on the constitutionality of the privatized red-light and speeding cameras.

    And yet, in his interview with the Show-Me Institute, Mayor Knowles held up privatized red light and speeding cameras as one of the best examples of privatized law enforcement services. link



    Parent
    Interesting. Under what authority (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:15:32 PM EST
    May the State of Missouri take over a city judiciary?

    Parent
    Aren't local magistrates ... (none / 0) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:59:50 PM EST
    ... subject to the authority of the State Supreme Court?

    Parent
    Sorting through... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:10:48 PM EST
    Clintons email's could cost taxpayers bucu bucks.

    I'll volunteer to sort through the 55,000 pages for 5 bucks a page, save y'all some money;)

    Seriously, why would Team Clinton print and deliver 55,000 pages in boxes instead of just forwarding them electronically?  Is it spite?  Do they own stock in Teldar Paper?

    Oops... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:11:20 PM EST
    If we had no scruples (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:19:13 PM EST
    The money we could make together kdog.  The t-shirts I could sell to low creativity Conservatives :)

    Parent
    Tell me about it... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:29:39 PM EST
    G. Gordon Liddy has been spotted in ghettos throughout the city offering 500 large in German Bearer Bonds to anybody with the stones to break into the Chappaqua estate and steal the server...if it wasn't for them scruples (and the fear of Secret Service bullets), I'd rock a meter-reader uniform and give it a shot;)

    Parent
    Because... (none / 0) (#66)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 03:38:21 PM EST
    ...someone has to read them.

    Electronic format allows searches for key words, like.... I don't know... Benghazi, Stevens, Libya, or whatever else makes headlines.  Who in their right mind wants to read work emails of someone else.

    No one in their right mind would deliver them in electronic format.

    Parent

    So you're saying... (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 11:29:14 AM EST
    it is spite, unless the State Dept. requested paper.

    "You want 'em, I'm gonna make you actually read them and be exposed to paper cuts doing it mother f*ckers!"

    I'm no computer wizard, isn't it possible to scan the paper emails into pdf's, and then search for buzz words like Benghazi?  That search feature saves me a lot of time when doing job quotes, I can search for the paragraph of the spec that deals with what I sell and ignore the other 200 pages.

    Parent

    That is OCR... (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 01:33:35 PM EST
    ...or Optical Character Recognition.  If it were me, I would scan them at a resolution that makes OCR difficult or put something on the glass to create artifacts on the copy, like a fax.

    We use it at work.  For straight text, like a book, it works well, but for things like spreadsheets and tax forms it sucks because it decides what characters are being scanned.

    I would imagine they have access to better scanners and OCR software, but if there isn't a clean original, it's not going to 'translate' very well.

    Why would State ask for paper when everyone else's emails are in electronic format ?  I don't know either way, but electronic format would be the preferred choice for any amount of data IMO.

    I don't think it's for spite, it is so they can't be readily searched.  This isn't a fact gathering mission, this is a witch hunt, there is no reason to make it easy for them.  They could have electronic copies in the hands of a hundred people by days end, and thoroughly searched for a list of key words an hour later.

    My feeling would be if they want to read through them, they can actually read through them, F them if they want to search for potential dirt.


    Parent

    As will investigating whether or not (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:12:31 PM EST
    The signatures on the Senate's letter to Iran are forged :)

    Parent
    Forget the King... (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:14:16 PM EST
    it's good to be an investigator!  Ridin' the gravy train.

    Parent
    Speaking as a person who reviews docs for a living (none / 0) (#36)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:51:51 PM EST
    You wouldn't just "forward" them.  They would have to be configured through a review platform that would do things like pull all the metadata in, which may not be the goal of Team Clinton. Metadata can open up a whole new can of worms.

    Also, any good lawyer knows you flood the other side with paper if you can.  :)

    Parent

    How much do... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:03:20 PM EST
    you (or your employer) charge per page?  Or is it by the hour so you can milk it? ;)

    Parent
    Probably (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:18:41 PM EST
    because a lot of the stuff has to be redacted I would imagine. Making the crazies go through 55,000 emails has to be fun though!

    Parent
    Don'tcha (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:03:29 PM EST
    know that the GOP does not care anything one iota about "wasteful spending" when it comes to the Clintons. LOL.

    Parent
    Neither do the Clintons, apparently... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:07:35 PM EST
    sure smells like spite to me GA....like when you have a beef with your bank and show up to pay a bill with pennies.

    Parent
    How do you know State Dept. (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by caseyOR on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:16:46 PM EST
    did not request hard copies of the emails?

    And you do know that of all the SoSs asked to provide State with copies of the emails they sent on private accounts, the request was made of all SoS going back to Albright, only Clinton complied? Colin Powell revealed on some TV news talk program last week that he used a private account while SoS, but didn't submit any emails because he no longer has any. He deleted all of his. So, why no hue and cry from the news media and Congress over Powell's actions?

    Parent

    Not a fan of the... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 02:26:40 PM EST
    other guys did it too or did it worse defense, so lame.

    But point taken about now knowing if the State Dept. insisted on paper...that does sound like the kind of wasteful stupidity I've come to expect from my government.  

    Ad if not for it hitting the news, those 55,000 pages would probably have sat in boxes collecting dust forever.  The poor trees....

    Parent

    And now for something completely different (5.00 / 4) (#73)
    by Zorba on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 05:40:38 PM EST
    A Greek recipe.  Made this last night.
    Avgolemono Soup (Egg Lemon Soup, with chicken)

    One large chicken, cut up
    One onion, quartered
    Two celery stalks, quartered
    Two carrots, quartered
    Two cloves garlic
    Two-four chicken bullion cubes
    One cup rice
    Four eggs, separated
    Juice of two lemons

    Gently boil chicken parts in water to cover, adding chicken bullion cubes, onion, carrots, celery, and garlic. When done, skim out the veggies, set the chicken aside, and skim the fat from the stock. (Make sure you have about 8 cups--add canned stock or water plus bullion cubes to make 8 cups, if necessary). Bring the stock to a boil. Add 1/2 to 1 cup rice (depending on how "ricey" you like it). Reduce heat and simmer until rice is done. You can add some of the chicken meat, diced, if you want. Remove the pot from the heat. Separate 4 eggs. Beat egg whites until they peak. Add the beaten yolks, then slowly add the juice of two lemons, beating the whole time. Slowly add the stock, a little at a time, until you have added about two cups worth. Then pour the mixture back into the pot, stirring gently. (Take the skin off of the chicken pieces and brown the chicken in butter to serve alongside, or save the meat that you haven't added to the soup for another use.)

    Very warming on a cold, rainy day.  
    Serve with some crusty bread to sop up the soup, and a salad.

    Ferguson Police Chief (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 02:14:06 PM EST
    Resigns Today!!!!!

    Geez, can't you take a joke? (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by MO Blue on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 02:48:35 PM EST
    Nothing to see here folks. Just 47 Republican Senators having a little fun.

    Republican aides were taken aback by what they thought was a lighthearted attempt to signal to Iran and the public that Congress should have a role in the ongoing nuclear discussions. Two GOP aides separately described their letter as a "cheeky" reminder of the congressional branch's prerogatives.

    "The administration has no sense of humor when it comes to how weakly they have been handling these negotiations," said a top GOP Senate aide.  link



    and all (none / 0) (#149)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 02:56:19 PM EST
    this time I thought we were using "clown car" as a metaphor. Is this a case of life imitating art or truth is stranger than fiction?

    Parent
    Also (none / 0) (#151)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 03:31:51 PM EST
    in breaking entertainment, Seth Rogen is in negotiations for his new movie "The Letter". Sources say the script involves his character getting involved in delicate international nuclear talks. One source who has seen the early script said "nuclear weapons, irresponsible behavior, the jokes just write themselves" he went on to describe the project as "Duck Soup meets Dr. Strangelove." Remember you heard it here first.

    Parent
    Shorter GOP (none / 0) (#150)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 03:22:40 PM EST
    We're really just a bunch of clowns so never mind us.

    Parent
    Tonight, I am making (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 03:34:50 PM EST
    Pastitsio

    1 lb. macaroni
    1 1/2 lbs. ground beef
    1 medium onion
    8 oz tomato sauce
    1 pint milk
    1/4 c. flour
    1 stick butter
    6 eggs
    3-4 cups grated kefalotyiri cheese, or use parmesan or Romano

    Boil macaroni and drain. Mix into macaroni 2 beaten eggs and 1/2 to 1 cup grated cheese and set aside.

    Brown onions and beef; drain well. Add tomato sauce (can use more if you like the filling saucier) to beef and onions. I will sometimes add a sprinkle of cinnamon or a splash of red wine, as well. (I did this today.)  Mix together and set aside.

    Melt butter in saucepan; add flour and mix. Add milk to mixture and thicken as for a white sauce. Cool and add 4 beaten eggs.
    If the sauce is still a bit warm, slowly add about half the white sauce a little at a time, to the eggs, stirring the whole time, then slowly add the mixture back into the rest of the white sauce.  Add a handful of cheese to the white sauce.

    To a medium baking pan (e.g. 9 in. × 13 in.) layer half of the macaroni. Cover with half of the remaining cheese. Layer on the meat mixture. Add the remaining macaroni and the cheese. Top with the white sauce, working it in with a spoon.

    Bake at 350° for 1 hr.

    It's in the oven, even as I type.

    Can I come over for dinner? (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by vml68 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 04:02:11 PM EST
    I love Pastitsio. But, then I have loved all the greek food I have tried...except for Avgolemono soup.
    I saw you posted a recipe for it and can't decide if I should give it a try one more time just to see if your version makes me change my mind.

    Parent
    Zorba: Thanks for your persistence (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by christinep on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 05:01:50 PM EST
    in changing the subject to the refreshing & unifying matter of food.  'Love pastitsio; 'waiting for a burst of energy to try your recipe.  

    As my mouth waters, one thing I do know is my anticipation of our trip to the Mediterranean in later summer is taking hold ... especially looking forward to a few days in Athens. (We've been privileged to spend some time in Greece before, but that was 15 years ago. I'll have lots of questions as the trip draws nearer.)

    Parent

    Pastitsio isn't hard to make, (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 06:44:14 PM EST
    but it does tend to mess up lots of pots, pans, and bowls, and there's white sauce drips and grated cheese all over.  
    Takes almost as long to clean up afterwards as it does to make it.  Only a slight exaggeration.   ;-)

    Parent
    My dear Zorba, would you (none / 0) (#164)
    by caseyOR on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 05:48:54 PM EST
    please repost your recipe for tzatziki? My efforts to find it in the TL archives have been unsuccessful.

    I thank you in advance.

    Parent

    Happy to do so (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 06:38:38 PM EST
    Tzatziki

    1 large cucumber
    3 cloves garlic (or more, to taste)
    2 cups Greek whole milk yogurt
    2 fronds of fresh dill, finely chopped
    1 teaspoon fresh mint, finely chopped
    Salt
    Ground black pepper
    Ground white pepper
    Ground cayenne pepper
    2 T. olive oil
    2 T. fresh lemon juice
    1/3 c. sour cream
    1/3 c. mayonnaise
    Peel and seed the cucumber (leave a few strips of skin on, for color). Chop into very small pieces (use a food processor). Place into colander and allow to drain 15-30 minutes, then squeeze out any excess water. Crush garlic into a pulp. Mix together cucumber, garlic, yogurt, dill, mint, oil, lemon juice, sour cream, and mayo. Add salt and a dash of black, white, and red peppers, to taste.

    This is the basic recipe, sort of the starting point, as it were.  I tend to use a more garlic, and a bit more cayenne pepper than indicated.

    Parent

    PS (none / 0) (#166)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 06:40:50 PM EST
    Obviously, you can double or triple the recipe.

    (For our food festivals, we make about 7 or 8 gallons.)

    Parent

    Zorba's recipe is the very best, (none / 0) (#169)
    by fishcamp on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 10:20:39 AM EST
    but I use half organic Greek yogurt and half plain organic yogurt.  It's a little thinner consistency.  I bought some Trader's Joe Tzatziki once, and it was thin and liquidy.

    Parent
    Okay, fish, you're (none / 0) (#170)
    by Zorba on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:14:25 PM EST
    off my recipe list.  How dare you use half plain yogurt, rather than all Greek yogurt!  You barbarian!
    Kidding, kidding.
    All Greek yogurt is, is regular yogurt that has been strained to remove some of the whey, which makes the yogurt thicker.
    You can make your own Greek yogurt by taking regular yogurt, whether home-made or purchased, put it in a cheesecloth-lined colander, and let the whey drain off (and for pity's sake, put a bowl underneath it!) until the yogurt is as thick as you want.  If you let it go even longer, you will wind up with yogurt cheese, which is also good.  You can save the whey and add it to your baked products, as well.

    Parent
    some more (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by CST on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 03:44:06 PM EST
    really cool winter pictures of ice rolling in off the ocean onto Cape Cod Beaches.  I've certainly never seen anything like it.

    Here's one that I took out the window of a ferry from the vineyard last weekend.  It's kind of crazy being on a boat in the ocean going through that stuff.  I felt like I was in Alaska, not that I know what Alaska is like.  But you definitely feel the crunch going through it.

    Thought of you when I read this... (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by vml68 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 04:06:12 PM EST
    LINK

    No more talk about the snow in Boston, now ;-)

    Parent

    Ha! (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by CST on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 04:16:18 PM EST
    That's amazing. I can't even imagine what it would've looked like if all that had fallen in a single day.  I bet it helps that you only have 1000 people living there :)

    Parent
    Gees, I did not know that was happening (none / 0) (#157)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 04:03:11 PM EST
    Truly amazing pictures.

    Parent
    blink and you miss it! (none / 0) (#161)
    by CST on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 04:17:27 PM EST
    It hit 60 today, so I'm pretty sure by now the ice is gone or much smaller.  Still incredible.

    Parent
    the Logan Act (none / 0) (#15)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:15:58 PM EST
     has resulted in one indictment, more than 200 years ago, that was not further pursued. It was enacted shortly after the Alien and Sedition Acts and is of dubious constitutionality (1st amendment, overbroad, void for vagueness, etc.)  Among others, House committees have opined, under both Democratic and Republican leadership, that it is likely unconstituional.

     A quick look shows it's been discussed , inter alia:

     When McGovern went to cuba in 1975
      1984 when Jesse Jackson went to Nicargua
      2007 when Pelosi went to Syria

      I think one thing we can be sure of is that no sane AG would prosecute under the LA for that letter and no sane Prez would want it done.

      I do think, as I said Sunday or yesterday,  the letter by virtue of being addressed to the leaders of the Republic of Iran intrudes on the executive's domain, but that's a far different issue than pursuing criminal charges. That would be an unmitigated disaster. Play from the high ground make political points, leave the silly idle threats to bloggers.
     

    It's not exactly clear.... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:35:12 PM EST
    (you know lawyers and legislators!), but ecstasy and 'shrooms might just be legal in Ireland for today and today only.  

    Party legal while you can Paddy!

    DEP... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 01:41:29 PM EST
    is looking to deputize NYC residents. Go in for a day's training, charge up your camera phone, and they'll cut you in for up to 50% of the action.

    LINK

    Let it be said that the only thing worse than an idling Carbon Monoxide maker is a rat.

    I posted a link at the end of the last open (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 06:50:07 PM EST
    from the Hollywood Reporter (I think) reporting the Robert Durst case was being reopened in LA because of the evidence revealed in the last episode of The Jinx.  I think this is great but I was wondering if anyone knows if this has ever happened before.  A murder investigation being reopened because of a TV show.
    I don't remember an instance.

    Howdy, I saw your comment (none / 0) (#81)
    by caseyOR on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 07:29:04 PM EST
    In the Clinton thread about your sister. It sounds like she is improving. So, good news, yes?

    It must be such a relief to your family and you. I am so glad for you.

    Parent

    Thank you (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 07:33:57 PM EST
    we are able to be cautiously optimistic.   That's a lot.

    Parent
    I dvr'd and am halfway through (none / 0) (#83)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 07:36:04 PM EST
    Episode 3; it's fascinating and weird and creepy...u

    Parent
    Don't know where that "u" came from... (none / 0) (#84)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 07:37:44 PM EST
    just ignore it!

    Parent
    Oh man (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 07:41:16 PM EST
    it only gets better.   It's funny because one thing I've seen asked is why on earth would he do this.  I think the answer is that they snookered him.  The promos for the show really left the impression it was going to be a favorable thing for him.  So much so some of the victim friends and family were hating on the project.
    Not to spoil any thing but it ain't turning out that way.

    Parent
    and the dominoes keep falling: (none / 0) (#99)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 09:42:28 PM EST
    Ferguson city manager out after Justice Department report

    The Ferguson City Council on Tuesday evening unanimously approved a resolution to part ways with City Manager John Shaw following a scathing Justice Department report that alleged racial bias in the city police department and court system....

    Not just a war with Iran (none / 0) (#121)
    by Politalkix on Tue Mar 10, 2015 at 11:45:01 PM EST
    Republicans are also pushing for a war with Russia in Ukraine. link The President is the only one holding out against such adventures. Sadly, many Democrats are also not with him.

    It is easy to blame Republicans; however it is also an ugly fact that the Iraq war would never have occurred if many Democrats (and some of them were quite influential) did not support it. Support from many Democrats about the Obama-Kerry peace initiative with Iran is tepid at best. Many of them would also like to escalate the war in Ukraine and create more military turmoil in other parts of the globe.

    Some of the Republican Presidential candidates have also put their signatures in Cotton's letter. I have a very uneasy feeling that HRC's position with respect to a war with Iran in 2016 will be very similar to John Kerry's position with respect to the Iraq war in 2004. She will try to speak out of both sides of her mouth regarding military action against Iran and impress no one outside her circle of cheerleaders.

    Let's have more than "uneasy feeling" (none / 0) (#140)
    by christinep on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 01:31:44 PM EST
    If you are basing that statement on your ABC preference, allow me to counter with my feeling that Hillary Clinton's position on Iran will reflect John Kerry's (read: Obama's) position today.  As the President has pointed out, no one yet knows really how successful the diplomatic initiative & talks will be ... I'm assuming that there will be no daylight between how Kerry represents the President on the matter and how Clinton positions herself today.  

    Don't forget: We all usually grow from experience, the best teacher--President Obama, you, myself and Hillary Clinton.

    Parent

    After having (none / 0) (#122)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 07:46:46 AM EST
    a discussion with someone today about politics I have decided there are basically two kinds of democrats: Obamacrats who want to let the GOP define the debate and work within the parameters set up by the GOP or Hillarycrats who would rather  define the debate and fight back. It seems there are too many liberals who fighting makes them queasy.

    I don't know who you were talking to, (4.00 / 3) (#129)
    by Anne on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 10:07:25 AM EST
    but, really - you think those are the only choices?  Is that what you see here?

    Can we please, for the love of God, stop trying to define people via the identity of the person they are assumed to support?  "Obamacrat?"  "Hillarycrat?"  What are we, 12?  I am neither of those things - nor am I 12.  And there are a lot of people just like me, some of them comment here every day.  I'm happy to fight back against the GOP and those Democrats who want to roll over and play dead, but that doesn't mean I'm a "Hillarycrat."  Why must you keep trying to define people this way?  Jesus, I hate the terminology that has infected things.  

    I have news for you - I'm a liberal and fighting does not make me queasy; not this kind of fighting, anyway.  I'm very happy to fight for what I believe are the issues, fight for accountability and transparency, fight to define myself instead of being shoe-horned into some little ideological box of someone else's creation.

    And that includes the two boxes you've set up.  Oh, maybe we're jihadicrats.  ::rolling eyes::

    I gather that you think wanting answers to basic questions is allowing the GOP to define the debate because they have some of the same questions. So how would you suggest we ask anything?  This isn't a game show where the person who buzzes in first is the only one allowed to speak, for crying out loud.

    Honestly, if the next 19 months is going to be like this, I need to find somewhere else to hang out.  

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 10:14:06 AM EST
    you are getting 2s from the right people

    Parent
    I'm sure there will be more where (none / 0) (#132)
    by Anne on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 10:23:45 AM EST
    that one came from, lol.

    Lordy.

    Parent

    I see (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 10:20:01 AM EST
    a lot of it here for sure but if you think I'm talking about you I am not.

    Parent
    As the character Nero Wolfe put it in (none / 0) (#133)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 11:22:11 AM EST
    Fer-de-Lance by Rex Stout

    "....personal resentment of a general statement is a barbarous remnant of a fetish-superstition."

    Parent

    In context, (none / 0) (#136)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 01:15:41 PM EST
      Wolfe made that comment in response to Archie's indignation over this  general statement by Dr. Bradford:

       " ....I shall continue to regard the vocation of raking scandal out of graveyards [referring to Wolfe's being a private detective] as an especially vile method of making a living...."

      In other words, it is an admonition not to let a general comment expressing a point of view [ and implicitly also the fact the person has such a point of view]   color your judgment about other facets of the person who made the comment.

       Heeding such sagacity might reduce the amount of flummery around here.

    Parent

    Pfui! (none / 0) (#137)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 01:21:04 PM EST
    Well, (none / 0) (#139)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 01:22:44 PM EST
     at least we share a taste in light reading.

    Parent
    Hillary (none / 0) (#123)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 07:51:38 AM EST
    Haven't (none / 0) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 08:03:02 AM EST
    you learned by now that it isn't going to matter because all the GOP has is scandal mongering. It's what they do because it's all they have.

    Parent
    Jodi Arias: From murder one and death row to: (none / 0) (#125)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 08:46:00 AM EST
    Better Call Saul (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 09:57:48 AM EST
    just watched.  Wow .  Great episode.  What makes Mike tick?  Now we know .  That final scene was flawless.

    last scene aka Jonathan Banks' Emmy reel (none / 0) (#155)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 11, 2015 at 03:57:59 PM EST
    Wasn't that sad? Just the way he says 'can you live with it?'. gives it an inflection I have never heard. So well done.

    I love watching this show knowing what the future holds for these characters. It really adds more emotional depth to it, especially Mike.

    Parent