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Thursday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 08:08:00 AM EST
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It will be several hours before I get back to a computer today. Here's a new open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Thursday Open Thread | 190 comments (190 topical)

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    So David Shuster (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 07:06:21 AM EST
    got schooled at the press conference at the UN with Hillary the other day.

    Oh, there's going to be no shortage of (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Anne on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 08:27:16 AM EST
    people blaming this on Obama and Holder; as ugly as it's been, it's going to get worse.

    Someone get the bug spray: I think we're about to be overrun by insects.

    Speaking of cockroaches (none / 0) (#6)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 09:29:06 AM EST
    You should read some of the tweets that are cheering on the fact that these cops got shot.

    Parent
    I am shocked, shocked! (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 09:46:44 AM EST
    to learn there are extremists on both sides of the fight, and it ain't helping.

    Personally, I'm perpetually amazed it doesn't happen more often, considering where the most blood is being drawn, and how civilians are mistreated by the law regularly.

    46 cops killed by gunfire in 2014, 114 total in the line of duty including car accidents.  Over 1,000 civilians killed by cops in 2014, most of them by gunfire.

    Parent

    It was 50 cops (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 10:10:03 AM EST
    And that's an increase of 56% over 2013.

    Not to mention the 51,000+ that were assaulted on the job....

    Parent

    And over 1000 civilians (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by CST on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 10:37:24 AM EST
    Not to mention everyone assaulted by cops.  These are people who are supposed to be trained to use non-lethal force.

    You shoot at enough people and they will start shooting back.

    Parent

    just to clarify (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by CST on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 10:38:38 AM EST
    I do not in any way condone these killings.  But they did feel a bit inevitable.

    Parent
    on the job.. (none / 0) (#45)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 03:09:58 PM EST
    i.e., while in the process of beating teenagers and women into the sidewalk.

    The only person I ever personally knew who assaulted an officer, as in, punched a cop one time in the face (very bad idea, no doubt) was severely beaten and pepper sprayed at the scene and then shackled, beaten, and pepper sprayed in the eyes by a group of cops at the jail.

    Parent

    The comments to the WSJ article on (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:26:47 AM EST
    the shootings are unbelievably disgusting.

    Parent
    Seems to be the case all over (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 12:12:15 PM EST


    Parent
    don't bring them here (none / 0) (#42)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 01:40:21 PM EST


    Parent
    Don't worry, Jeralyn. (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 12:11:50 AM EST
    oculus made them wait outside the building, where they soon got bored and decided to go find the nearest Pinkberry.

    Parent
    I see the protests and violence as more (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by McBain on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 10:51:02 AM EST
    media driven than anything else.  The DOJ report was dumb and didn't help but the main problem was all the biased and misleading tv and internet coverage back when the Brown shooting first happened.

    Blame Obama, blame the media... (5.00 / 5) (#15)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:03:14 AM EST
    never are the saints in the legislatures and their hired guns assigned any blame at all for this sorry state of relations.  

    Parent
    Right... (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:12:06 AM EST
    ...because if we didn't see it on the TV, or read it, it didn't happen.

    If the media is the problem how exactly do you know anything about this case ?  I think what you are trying to get at, is your source of media is better than most people's, or have you done your own investigation in Ferguson ?

    I am pretty sure your source includes the relevant Mark Fuhrman, who is on the scene letting us all know it's the black guys fault.

    Parent

    It's like blaming the media (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by CST on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:21:38 AM EST
    For telling us that 9/11 happened since it led to an increase in attacks against Muslims.

    Parent
    It's more like what happened in the Zimmerman (none / 0) (#48)
    by McBain on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 03:25:04 PM EST
    case. Stoking the racial fires is big business. Had the main stream media been less baised, there probably would have been less rioting and there's a good chance these cops wouldn't have been shot.

    Parent
    The DOJ report (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by CST on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 04:09:49 PM EST
    which you originally assigned blame to, was about holding Ferguson accountable for their actions.

    If you want to be mad about something, be mad about what was IN the report, not about the fact that the report exists.

    Telling us the truth about what is happening is not the problem - the fact that this stuff is happening at all is the cause of the rioting.

    Parent

    I watched a lot of CNN (none / 0) (#47)
    by McBain on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 03:19:39 PM EST
    They aren't great but they tend to give more air time to stories like this than other networks.  As I've said before, Fox went downhill when Obama first got elected.... too much time devoted to politics.  I used to enjoy Greta Van Susteren's show when she focused on legal issues.  Same with Geraldo.

    Like the Zimmerman case, this story was spun to make it look like a white person shot an unarmed black person because he was black. That angle is good for ratings.  

    Parent

    So What Is Your Main Source... (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 03:46:21 PM EST
    ...of media that lead you to these conclusions, that the media spin is what led to the cops getting shot ?

    IOW who is telling you 'this story was spun' ?

    I hope you understand my point here.  You are getting your info from the media you keep bashing, and just because they tell you the other guy is spinning it doesn't make it so.

    I would love to get a link to your un-spun media, because the ones you listed sure as hell are spinning Ferguson, just not the in the same direction.

    Parent

    My main source was CNN TV (none / 0) (#58)
    by McBain on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 05:11:50 PM EST
    Their coverage was biased but not entirely one sided.  I'm not aware of any un-spun media sources.  

    Parent
    So CNN is Stating That... (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 08:37:52 AM EST
    ...protest and riots are media driven ?  That they are, more or less, to blame.

    Link please.

    You did glaze over my main point, you are slamming the media, while simultaneously getting all your information about Ferguson from... the media.

    I am not following your logic at all.

    You are making some very bold claims about the media and have yet to provide the source.

    Parent

    There's nothing bold about my claims (none / 0) (#106)
    by McBain on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 12:41:42 PM EST
    You want me to provide a link to the countless hours of media coverage I viewed on the Michael Brown case?  I already told you my main source was CNN. Their coverage wasn't the worst but they did stoke the fires.  Here's a clip from their most biased "legal expert" Sunny Hostin.

    http://tinyurl.com/kgjgywe

    Like in the Zimmerman case, her analysis was beyond bad. Evey day she was doing her best to mislead people.

    CNN gave a lot of air time to Brown family attorney Daryl Parks.  Here's one of his many clips...
    http://tinyurl.com/nv542to

    If you want more links.  Do you own work.

     

    Parent

    Yeah - you don't like some of ... (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 12:53:26 PM EST
    ... the media coverage.  Because of that, you claim the media was intentionally "spinning"/misleading for ratings, which is what you claim caused the protests.

    You've still provided zero evidence to back up the claims that:

    1.  The "media" (whoever that is) was intentionally spinning/misleading for ratings, as opposed to offering a different opinion than you.

    2.  The media caused the protests.


    Parent
    McBain... (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:44:21 PM EST
    ... it's a bold claim to say the media is at fault for the protests and riots, which presumably includes two cops getting shot.

    All I am asking for is some evidence.

    I am positive CNN isn't blaming the themselves(the media) for a damn thing.

    For someone who slams the media pretty frequently, it's very odd for you to write about the "countless hours of media coverage I viewed".  

    Parent

    Scott, I did the best I could in 20 minutes to (none / 0) (#138)
    by McBain on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 07:32:24 PM EST
    show you why I believe the protests and riots were mostly media driven.  I believe people viewed media coverage, like the links I provided, and decided Darren Wilson must have committed murder and then they went out and caused trouble.  
    If that's not good enough for you, oh well. I'm not going to spend hours scouring the internet for more video footage. You're welcome to do that yourself.  Just search for Benjamin Crump, Nancy Grace, Lisa Bloom, Sunny Hostin.    

    Now, do you actually disagree with me or are you like Yman and just like to debate? I'll listen to you if you disagree.... but now it's your turn to give me something.  Show me why you believe what you do.  Don't just tell me, I haven't proved my point.. that's debating.  


    Parent

    Neither... (none / 0) (#185)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 at 08:56:05 AM EST
    ...all I wanted was a source for your claims.

    The obviously is none, so it is a product of your imagination.

    Parent

    No Scott, it's common sense (none / 0) (#192)
    by McBain on Mon Mar 16, 2015 at 09:15:51 PM EST
    Something you probably have but choose to ignore when responding to me. Try thinking for yourself.  

    Parent
    Yes... (none / 0) (#193)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Mar 17, 2015 at 03:22:21 PM EST
    ....the source for your claim that the media is behind the riots and protests is.... drum roll please...

    Common Sense.

    That is not only really funny, but pretty much what I expected, your claims are nothing more than a figment of your imagination to which you attribute sense that is shared by nearly all, aka common.

    Common sense at time said that the Earth was flat, proof proved it to be round.  I didn't ask what you thought about anything, I asked you to back up a claim you made.

    You can't because it doesn't exist.  There is no study correlating the media's coverage to riots and protesters.  

    That is just silly, much like your claim.

    Parent

    Yman, Fug-ged-a-bout-it (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by NYShooter on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:48:41 PM EST
    You're talking to a guy who sprinkles every comment with, " just like the Zimmerman case," as if pointing out the idea that what actually happened that fateful night might not have been precisely what the lone survivor (and, defendant) would have you believe.

    That six white jurors, in an uninspired, disinterested, horribly prosecuted trial found insufficient evidence to prove conclusively (beyond a reasonable doubt) that "Z" was guilty is, in McBain's mind, absolute, metaphysical proof, beyond a shadow of a doubt, of "Z's innocence.  

    To McBain, even mentioning the known facts of the case equates to, "intentionally "spinning"/misleading for ratings."

    Parent

    At least we agree on one thing... (none / 0) (#139)
    by McBain on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 07:40:18 PM EST
    the Zimmerman trial was... "uninspired, disinterested, horribly prosecuted"

    Every day was a train wreck for the prosecution. It was hilarious watching Sunny Hostin and Daryl Parks trying to convince people that the state was proving it's case.

    Parent

    In what way was the DOJ report dumb? (5.00 / 7) (#22)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:43:38 AM EST
    For telling people what was going on behind their backs and making them angry to realize what they had always suspected was even worse than they tpought??

    Parent
    After 212 days of the Ferguson Movement, (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Palli on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 10:49:11 PM EST
    you still believe that?  The DoJ Report was dumb?

    Parent
    LOL! you're unbelievable. (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 12:02:58 AM EST
    McBain: "The DOJ report was dumb and didn't help but the main problem was all the biased and misleading tv and internet coverage back when the Brown shooting first happened."

    Pray tell, how was the DOJ report "dumb"? Because its findings burst your political cocoon and you can't handle fact and truth?

    Were I a betting man, I'd offer better than even odds that you never even read the report, and are merely parroting what you heard from the wacky white-wing Wurlitzer that's Fox News.

    Come back here when you actually have something original of substance and reason to offer on the subject.

    :-|

    Parent

    This sounds unbelievable to me: (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:39:18 AM EST
    The officer -- a 32-year-old with seven years experience -- was shot at the high point of his cheek, just under his right eye, Belmar said. The bullet that hit him was still lodged behind his ear as of late Thursday morning.

    The other wounded officer was hit in the shoulder and the bullet came out the middle of his back, Belmar said. He is a 41-year-old from St. Louis County Police who has been in law enforcement for the past 14 years.

    Both men were treated and released from St. Louis' Barnes Jewish Hospital, according to a Thursday morning post on the St. Louis County Police's Facebook page.
    All you need to know (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by lentinel on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:37:54 PM EST
    about Jeb:

    He calls what brother W. did:

    "The liberation of Iraq."
    He's done then (none / 0) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:47:00 PM EST
    Before he even started

    Parent
    He is (none / 0) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:51:11 PM EST
    the most overated candidate I have ever seen in my lifetime.

    On tape saying the "liberation of Iraq" yes, that's the ticket. He sounds like his brother and I can see the voice overs or the Bush/Bush split screen with the two of them saying the same thing.

    Yep, he's done.

    Parent

    Yes... (none / 0) (#89)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 08:28:36 AM EST
    ...because parroting a man who was actually president is a sure fire way to... not become president ?

    I think those kinds of themes are still running pretty much uncontested on the right.  At the very least, comments like that aren't going to hurt his primary odds.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 09:59:31 AM EST
    that's probably not going to hurt him with the nuts that vote in the GOP primary but he has bigger problems with them like his support for Common Core among a lot of other things.

    Parent
    Yes, Jeb will have (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by KeysDan on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 01:12:44 PM EST
    some trouble getting out of the primaries because immigration and education.   War, not so much.   Indeed, the neocons, for example Douglas Feith who General Tommy Franks called, "the dumbest fkg guy on the planet," is now among advisers to Tom Cotton and the Tandrum 47.  

    These guys are just noticing that Iran may have influence in Iraq.  Of course, they fail to attribute that result to that Bush misadventure in Iraq. One subscribed to by Jeb, keeping it all in the family.   And, they seem to forget that Iran and Iraq had a war for eight years (1980-1988). Although, Rumsfeld no doubt does.   They still do not know Shia from Shinola.

    Parent

    I am so stealing (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Zorba on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 02:11:01 PM EST
    your last sentence, KeysDan.  ;-)

    Parent
    I don't (none / 0) (#134)
    by lentinel on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 05:15:49 PM EST
    think he's done.

    I think he has the nomination.

    And I also think that if the opposition to him is in the mold of a Hillary or a Biden or a Kerry, the "rightness" of the war of Iraq will not even be an issue.

    I think that Jeb is a dangerous fool.
    It runs in the family.

    But on the other side, I see people like Hillary who are more intelligent, but when push comes to shove, agree in principle with the most right wing formulations coming from the republicans.

    Parent

    From there, it's only a short step to ... (none / 0) (#82)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 12:16:00 AM EST
    ... "Democracy is messy" and "Sometimes you have to go to war with the army you have, not the army you want."

    Parent
    Middle school basketball team ... (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 02:29:54 PM EST
    ... walks off the court to confront bullies in the audience heckling a cheerleader with Down's Syndrome.

    I read that (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by MO Blue on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 02:39:51 PM EST
    yesterday. What a nice thing to do.

    The whole stort is kind of remarkable.

    Parent

    I swear a nasty (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by MO Blue on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 05:57:25 PM EST
    auto correct gremlin has invaded my iPad. Where in the blue blazes did it come up with "stort" to replace story?

    Stop it you nasty creature. I make enough mistakes on my own and don't need your help.😁

    Parent

    Email story not quite dead (1.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Slado on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 11:46:51 PM EST
    The story that refuses to die because like all Clinton scandals or dust ups they just never seem to tell the whole truth.

    NYT's

    So all those .gov emails could be gone?   Also the irony that Podesta wrote WH guidelines for Mr. Clinton of how government officials should do exactly the opposite of what Mrs.Clinton did is too much and I'm sure will be easy to explain.  

    CNN

    So she simply keyworded the emails to determine what was business and what was not?  Quite a thorough search.  Basically again she is just saying trust me and describing what happened in the way most beneficial to her even if it's not really accurate.

    TechTarget.com

    Clinton's server was not and is not secure.  Who cares?  If she's not worried why should we be?

    Of course none of this will keep her from the nomination as the CNN commentators are happy to point out.  No charges will be filed, she'll stonewall congress, heck she might have the nerve to take the Fith.

    What it will do is remind everyone who isn't personally invested in her winning that a vote for Hillary is a vote to return to the shady politics of the Clintons.

    But if enough voters feel the ends justifies the means then this email story will just be another footnote in the Clinton legacy.

    It's now (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 08:38:07 AM EST
    moving on to Jeb Bush and probably is going to start engulfing the GOP now since they all seem to have this same problem.

    Trey Gowdy should release everything he has if it is such a big deal. Why is he lying and being secretive?

    Parent

    Love how you "rephrase" (aka distort) (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 10:04:57 AM EST
    ... everything.  This story will remain alive not because they didn't tell the truth, but because the wingers will seize on anything - real or fake - to push their silly "scandals".

    From your NYT article:

    President Obama signed legislation late last year requiring government officials who use personal email addresses for official business to bring those records into the government within 20 days. Before that, the National Archives and Records Administration simply required those messages at some point to be provided to the government
    .

    Precisely what was done - both contemporaneously with copying to .gov addresses and when the SD requested the emails and she provided them.  It also confirms it's up to the individual employee to determine which records are relevant and should be preserved.

    Don't like it?  Lobby for a change in the law.  BTW - Have you noticed how much of the original story has now been walked-back by the NYT?

    So she simply keyworded the emails to determine what was business and what was not?  Quite a thorough search.  Basically again she is just saying trust me and describing what happened in the way most beneficial to her even if it's not really accurate.

    The keyword searches?  Yep - Precisely how documents are provided with discovery in litigation.  Are you suggesting there's some requirement that she must review the entirety of each email?  Or is this simply more about what you wish the law was - at least in this case?  BTW - Love the "basically" qualifier - aka "basically" - adj. - granting license to paraphrase or completely distort a fact.


     Clinton's server was not and is not secure.  Who cares?  If she's not worried why should we be?

    Seriuosly?  BS.  What the story actually says.

    The story has been in the spotlight since The New York Times first reported it on March 2, not only because of the questionable legality of her actions, but also because numerous information security professionals have stated that confidential data may have been exposed to or exploited by malicious actors.

    You see that qualifier?  "May".  Like every other silly theory thrown out there on this story, it's loaded with qualifiers - "May", "possibly", "could have", etc. etc. etc.  And - like every other accusation - innuendo and specious claims are magically transformed into faux "facts" when people like you decide to rephrase them and start dropping those qualifiers.

    Too funny ...

    ... and transparent..

    Of course none of this will keep her from the nomination as the CNN commentators are happy to point out.  No charges will be filed, she'll stonewall congress, heck she might have the nerve to take the Fifth.

    Soooo ridiculous.  There's not even an allegation of criminal wrongdoing, let alone anything to back them up.

    Time to restock on tinfoil.

    Parent

    I wonder (none / 0) (#156)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 10:23:39 AM EST
    how much oxygen this report will get. I'll take the under.

    Parent
    Oh. those crazy (none / 0) (#2)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 07:20:23 AM EST
    Secret Service agents!

    It seems as though (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Zorba on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 10:17:13 AM EST
    A month can't go by without some stupidity or failing on the part of the Secret Service.
    Okay, that may be an exaggeration, but there have just been way too many bad incidents of various sorts.
    And these are not two young "newbies," either.   One is a senior supervisor in the Washington field office, and the other is the freaking second-in-command of the President's detail!


    Parent
    Worse... (none / 0) (#16)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:05:35 AM EST
    ...the officer on duty wanted to arrest them and do a field sobriety test, someone high up let said 'no', let them go.

    Parent
    That wouldn't be (none / 0) (#26)
    by Zorba on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:50:13 AM EST
    the first time that cops got a pass from other cops or the "higher ups."
    And I doubt that it will be the last time.
    Unfortunately.


    Parent
    Nor the last Time... (none / 0) (#46)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 03:16:32 PM EST
    ...some idiot lost his premo job covering for ridiculousness.

    Parent
    Two Police Officers Shot During Ferguson... (none / 0) (#3)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 08:12:26 AM EST
    ...protest after police chief resigns.

    LINK

    Neither officer has life threatening injuries.

    Dumb. dumb. dumb.

    You know (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 09:33:53 AM EST
    why can't people understand that Obama allowing himself to get rolled by the GOP emboldens them to do things like write that letter to Iran?

    I think there is a certain segment (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 01:33:56 PM EST
    Of this society who were going to write that letter and send it no matter how the first black President of the United States acted on any given day.

    The Republican Party is now either the South or covets this great South :). And part of Southern identity is its confederate heritage.

    Parent

    Witnesses among the demonstrators (none / 0) (#23)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:47:46 AM EST
    Witnesses among the demonstrators denied any link to the shootings, saying that they believed the shots originated from the top of a hill about 220 yards directly across from the station. Chief Belmar did not specify a location, but estimated the distance at 125 yards.

    [...]

    Based on the sound of the shots and the officers' wounds, he said, the weapon was a handgun, not a rifle.

    From a handgun at 125 yards?

    imo, not likely.

    OK, if they were all standing in a line (none / 0) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 12:08:58 PM EST
    kind of shoulder to shoulder, 125 yards with a handgun sounds more reasonable:

    The two police officers who were shot had been standing in a line of more than a dozen officers, Belmar said at a news conference Thursday morning.


    Parent
    Technically possible, with some (none / 0) (#29)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 12:11:28 PM EST
    training and practice, but not very probable without it:

    Though the title sounds a bit absurd, it is quite possible to be very accurate over long distances with a pistol. It takes patience, a little bit of talent, dexterity, and lots of practice. This article will give you pointers on how to become a better shot with any pistol at distances of 100 yards (91.4 m), 200 yards (182.9 m), and beyond. Keep in mind (especially with handguns) you may limit how well you are able to accomplish this based on the amount of trigger-time and patience you put into your exercises.

    I'm a decent shot with a .45, so I have a wee bit of expertise in this area, as the gardener said to the Laird.

    Parent

    If I Were to Guess... (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 12:36:08 PM EST
    ...and since officers were already released, someone used a .22 rifle, which isn't loud, like a hunting rifle and IMO sounds like firecrackers, which is what one reporter stated on the TV.

    I have no idea, but getting off 4 shots that quickly and at that range with a large caliper handgun takes some real skills and IMO a high caliper bullet would not have remained lodged in his head.  But the other did go through, so who knows.

    The real question is was it is someone who was displeased with Ferguson police or someone trying to incite racial violence.  All hell would have broken loose had a cop died, as it stands I would not want to be black in that city right now.

    I hope they catch them and they do it soon.  As much as I dislike the behavior of some cops, they should not have to worry about some idiot taking shots at them, anytime, ever.

    Parent

    Uncle Chip... (none / 0) (#92)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 08:55:55 AM EST
    ...is stating in another thread they have the shell casings and they are from a pistol and the range is 125 yards.

    Parent
    Ya, looks like they were all standing in a line, (none / 0) (#32)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 12:13:58 PM EST
    sort of shoulder to shoulder, so aiming for the mass and hoping to hit someone sounds reasonable.

    Parent
    Mr. Belmar said three to four shots were heard (none / 0) (#33)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 12:16:32 PM EST
    Mr. Belmar said three to four shots were heard, and bullets struck the two officers as they stood in a line with about 20 other officers.


    Parent
    Dude's walking around with a bullet in his head. (none / 0) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:48:20 AM EST


    Either (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:48:26 AM EST
    the wounds aren't as bad as described above or wow, just wow on the hospital releasing them like you say.

    Even with cadillac plans dog you can get stuck with a mighty bill. I have a policy that is a $250 deductible and 90/10 and one test left me with a $800 bill.

    He Was on the Job... (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 12:22:36 PM EST
    ...aka working, so it should get picked up by workers comp rather than his insurance.

    Parent
    It is an oddity of human anatomy (none / 0) (#27)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:56:57 AM EST
    That is some cases a bullet may be left in situ rather than run the risk the operation would entail to remove it.  This doesn't lessen the trauma the officer suffered, nor the damage caused by the opportunist who perpetrated this outrageous act.

    Parent
    Andrew Jackson... (none / 0) (#94)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 09:11:54 AM EST
    ...died with 4 musket balls, aka bullets ,in his body, all from duels defensing his wife's honor.  She had been previously married, but not divorced.  She was a polygamist, but separation w/o a divorce was a common practice on the frontier.

    Eventually a formal divorce was obtained and they were 'remarried'.
    -------------------------

    I don't understand how a piece of lead can be left in the body.

    Parent

    Lead needs to be in solution (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 10:57:57 AM EST
    in order to be toxic to body tissues, and  it can lead to lead poisoning, or plumbism, as it's known medically, under the wrong circumstances:

    This is a fairly common question from victims of gunshots and their families. As you know, bullets are routinely left in place unless they are superficial. It may cause more damage to try to extract one, especially if it has come to rest in a deep location. But is there danger in leaving the bullet alone?
    One of the classic papers on this topic was published in 1982 by Erwin Thal at Parkland Hospital in Dallas. The paper recounted a series of 16 patients who had developed signs and symptoms of lead poisoning (plumbism) after a gunshot or shotgun injury. The common thread in these cases was that the injury involved a joint or bursa near a joint. In some cases the missile passed through the joint/bursa but came to rest nearby, and a synovial pseudocyst formed which included the piece of lead. The joint fluid bathing the projectile caused lead to leach into the circulation.
    The patients in the Parkland paper developed symptoms anywhere from 3 days to 40 years after injury. As is the case with plumbism, symptoms were variable and nonspecific. Patients presented with abdominal pain, anemia, cognitive problems, renal dysfunction and seizures to name a few.
    Bottom line: Any patient with a bullet or lead shot that is located in or near a joint or bursa should have the missile(s) promptly and surgically removed. Any lead that has come to rest within the GI tract (particularly the stomach) must be removed as well. If a patient presents with odd symptoms and has a history of a retained bullet, obtain a toxicology consult and begin a workup for lead poisoning. If levels are elevated, the missile must be extracted. Chelation therapy should be started preop because manipulation of the site may further increase lead levels. The missile and any stained tissues or pseudocyst must be removed in their entirety.
    Reference: Lead poisoning from retained bullets. Ann Surg 195(3):305-313, 1982.



    Parent
    This is the second article I've read this week (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 12:13:25 PM EST
    Gov. O'Malley as a possible challenger for the Dem. Presidential nomination.  The Guardian

    Thoughts?

    As a resident of the state O'Malley (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Anne on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 01:15:22 PM EST
    was governor of for 8 years - Maryland - I do have a frame of reference.

    I'll say this: I think his chances of being a VP nominee are probably better (well, except that he's a white, Catholic male) than his chances of getting the presidential nod, but I wouldn't mind him starting out as a challenger.  Not that I'd expect him to make it out of Iowa...

    He would make a good campaigner for Clinton if she gets the nomination.

    Parent

    My thought when I have seen him mentioned is that (none / 0) (#34)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 12:19:42 PM EST
    he would be a good running mate for Hillary. But I confess that is all based on optics - he is younger, and a governor of a state, etc. I don't know anything about his policies or positions on issues.

    Anne - what do you think of him, as our resident Marylander?

    Parent

    Dont know (none / 0) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 12:48:21 PM EST
    anything about him but the more people running the better in my opinion.

    I guess this will X be her "undoing" is the line they all seem to be going with. The Nation was using that line with Jim Webb.

    Parent

    He's certainly better (none / 0) (#38)
    by CoralGables on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 01:01:27 PM EST
    than all the Republicans running, but he doesn't have a chance.

    Parent
    Comments calling other people (none / 0) (#39)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 01:11:21 PM EST
    racist have been deleted. You may not do that here, it's potentially libelous. That includes comments about media personalities.

    Another entry (none / 0) (#43)
    by FlJoe on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 01:53:42 PM EST
    for " Republicans say the darndest things"
    via Digby:
    And here's the first thing I would do if I were president of the United States. I wouldn't let Congress leave town until we fix this. I would literally use the military to keep them in if I had to. We're not leaving town until we restore these defense cuts. We are not leaving town until we restore the intel cuts.
    Tracy... (none / 0) (#44)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 02:17:32 PM EST
    ...I tried to post this in another thread related to a comment you posted about tution, but it failed.  I think the thread about tution were deleted.

    ...my tuition and books were paid for by the state because I was a veteran of a foreign war.  That was in Wisconsin, they have the same deal here in Texas.

    My GI Bill went into my pocket.

    I have a friend down here that served and because he never used his GI benefits, his daughter was able to use them some 15 years later.  For me it was I think $419 for 36 months, you can go 3 years straight or 4 years for only 9 months.  But the Veterans Department paid tuition and books for 5 years, and longer had I stayed in school.  It's adjusted for inflation so the amount is probably closer to $500/mth.

    While I am not sure, when the time comes check with whatever state Veterans Department you are living in.  I would imagine there are some educational benefits for Josh because his father is a veteran of a foreign war.

    Maybe even check before, because those benefits were only available in the state I declared when I was discharged.  Had I put Virginia, were I was based, Wisconsin would not have given me the benefits.  I know because even though Texas has the same program, the state I listed was Wisconsin and Texas wouldn't pay my post graduate tuition.

    It might matter what state your husbands lists when he leaves if it's not where Josh plans to attend.

    Also, because I was a Veteran, the requirements to actually get in for the most part were waived.  But I didn't realize this and studied my @ss of for the ACT's since I had been out of high-school for 4 years.



    Josh can use what is left of his (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:11:28 PM EST
    Dad's GI Bill.  I think my husband has only used half of his on his Masters.  The soldier might have to be retired or processed out to reassign it. So 2 yrs of some funds coming into him monthly from that source.

    He is very sharp. His parents can no longer keep up.  Combined with his disability there will probably be some funds in that area too.

    I shared with him the information from CST.  He's 15 and it's after school and his blood sugar is dropping.  It's like a candy bar commercial sometimes :). He will digest it all though.  He was really grumpy finding out that Auburn is likely more expensive for him than Harvard.  That just seemed like an outrage when you have low blood sugar.

    Parent

    So, for the first time in (none / 0) (#49)
    by Zorba on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 03:45:05 PM EST
    a lot of years, I got someone coming by the house who asked about painting our barn.
    We used to get at least one of these fly-by-nights every year or two, but haven't had any in about, oh, 10 or 12 years.
    First of all, he pulled into our driveway and honked, and waited a bit, I suppose expecting someone to pop out of the house and come out to his truck.
    Mistake number one.  If you are looking for a job, get off your dead @ss and get out of your truck and walk up to the door.
    Second mistake, have a business card, or at the very least, a xeroxed paper with your name and phone number to offer the homeowner.  
    And offer to provide some local references.
    Those are the least you should do.
    What he didn't know, of course, is that we have an Amish-built cedar barn that we want to remain unpainted because we like the way the wood looks.  We have it coated with wood preservative every so often.  Mr. Zorba used to do this himself, but in the past few years we have hired a highly-recommended local company to do this instead.
    (Touch my barn with paint, buddy, and you're in big trouble.)
    I have a lot of sympathy for the legitimate workers who are just trying to do a job and make some money, but I'm not going to hire a barn painter, or some guy who wants to blacktop our driveway, or some guy who wants to take down some trees and buy lumber from our woods, who just shows up here, unannounced.  
    The scam artists have pretty much ruined it for the people who want to do a good job and make some money, but that's the reality of it in today's world.

    In Wisconsin it's Damn Near a Law... (none / 0) (#52)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 04:11:12 PM EST
    ...that your barn be red.  My dad has it done every couple of years.  The last couple times they sprayed it, which looks good, but don't add much in the way of protection from the elements.

    I keep telling him to tear it down, it's not being used and the hand cut beams, some as long as 50ft are worth a fortune and they are just going to end up as rotting when the barn eventually falls down.  They are not built to sit empty.  Barns need to be used.

    My dad tore down the silos years ago and sold them.  Same thing, they are not meant to remain empty and would have eventually fell over.  Not sure why he is so reluctant to do the same with the barn.

    But those beams, wood like that simply does not exist.  Hand cut and put together using wooden pegs and notches.

    Your forgot the guys, and I don't know if they stop by anymore, that sell vacuum cleaners, life insurance, and replacement windows.  I distinctly remember those fellas stopping by with frequency.

    Parent

    Well, most of the barns around here (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Zorba on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 04:29:09 PM EST
    are also painted red.  At least, the wooden ones are. (Not ours, and it's never going to be, the wood is too beautiful.) There are a couple of old stone barns, which are absolutely gorgeous, and one brick one.
    Our barn is in use.  It's full of hay.  And a hay wagon.  And two small tractors.  (Our big tractor is in a separate tractor shed.)
    And while our barn is not an old one, it is post and beam construction, with treenails, pronounced "trunnels." (Those are what the wooden pegs are called.)  And with mortise and tenon joints (which I believe is what you are referring to when you said "notches.")
    The Amish still build this way, which is why we hired them.  Absolute top-notch craftsmanship.
    We haven't had a vacuum cleaner guy by here in at least twenty years.  Never had an insurance salesman or window guy come by.
    We do get religious missionaries come by from time to time.  I usually offer to pull out my New Testament in the original Greek for them and give them the proper translation.  Then they politely excuse themselves and leave.   ;-)

    Parent
    When the religious talkers (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by fishcamp on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 07:48:10 AM EST
    come to my house, I just answer the door naked.  They leave.

    Parent
    My mother used to answer (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Peter G on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 11:30:59 AM EST
    "We already have a religion, thank you, and we only need one at a time. But if we're ever in need of a new one, we'll be sure to call you."

    Parent
    Dang... (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 09:28:01 AM EST
    ...that is some interesting information.

    I had no idea they still built barns that way.  I have seen the Amish raising barns, but never really paid attention.

    The Amish in Wisconsin actually use diesel engines to cut lumber.  It's a niche they have cornered up there.  My dad used them occasionally.  My brother made a crib for his first born from a tree on his land that the Amish cut into lumber.

    But the Amish don't use the power for anything but commerce, no lights and they still plant and harvest crops without modern power equipment.

    Parent

    Same with (none / 0) (#108)
    by Zorba on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 01:07:56 PM EST
    "our" Amish.  While working here, they would use gas or diesel powered equipment.  
    But at home, no power equipment at all.


    Parent
    Never had a barn (none / 0) (#54)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 04:32:42 PM EST
    nor blacktop people come to my house but at one house we had this dead pine tree that you could see driving down the road. It was behind the house but that never stopped them. I can't tell you how many times somebody stopped by wanting to cut down that tree. I was annoying but every one of them did get out of their car and knock on the door and most left a card. We finally just took down the tree ourselves and that was the end of it.

    I understand a lot of those blacktop people are traveling gypsies.

    Parent

    Yes, most of the blacktop (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Zorba on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 05:05:18 PM EST
    door-to-door guys are scam artists.
    We do get the lumber guys coming by every year or so, or more.  We have 40+ acres of woods and they want to log it.
    Over my dead body.  
    We love our woods, just as they are. We do take downed trees out and cut them up for firewood, and we allow a local church (we know the people) to take some downed trees out for their service project of providing firewood to the poor.  
    Based on looking at what has happened to the woods of our neighbors that have made deals with lumber companies, the lumber companies trash the woods and the surrounding trees, and leave ugliness in their wakes.  No thanks, not for us.

    Parent
    Yes, I have had (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 05:47:25 PM EST
    family that had those people come and cut down their trees and unless you want to look at a few sticks left in barren pile of splinters it's certainly not pretty. So I would understand why you would not do it. We had some pines taken out of the backyard of one house and even though it was better with them gone it sure was a mess for a while getting the limbs and all that gathered up and neat.

    Parent
    Wow, just sent me down a rabbit hole (none / 0) (#55)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 04:51:26 PM EST
    googling blacktop gypsies...

    Parent
    Here you (none / 0) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 04:57:16 PM EST
    go link

    Parent
    Yup, very interesting. (none / 0) (#59)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 05:38:54 PM EST
    My only experience with gypsies in the US was being the waiter for a gypsy family at a restaurant I worked at back in the day. They were very nice, none of them could read so I told them what we had to offer, they paid in cash, and left a nice tip.

    Parent
    Wisconsin emanations (none / 0) (#60)
    by christinep on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 05:46:58 PM EST
    Several days ago there appeared a picture on the national screen from Wisconsin.  It was of Governor Scott Walker and a bunch of men surrounding her (maybe one woman obscured in that group) as Walker signed the so-called "Right to Work" law in that State.

    Seeing that snapshot, I was instantly struck by Walker's formidable SMIRK.  My gosh, that SMIRK minimized even Dubya's teeth-grinding smirk.  Walker's SMIRK as this union-buster signed the anti-union legislation still haunts me ... it makes the fictional Mr. Potter the banker seem so kind and jovial. The scary part is the likelihood that the SMIRK represents his attitude toward so many workers.

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 05:52:29 PM EST
    the people of WI are going to have to stand up and say they're not going to take it anymore and that's the only solution. He lied to them about doing this but they should have known. I say the same thing to the people here in GA. If you like poverty and high unemployment then Deal is your guy. So the message the GOP got from an off year election is that cruelty, small mindness and all that is what the voters want.

    Parent
    It astounds me that people can't understand (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:15:15 PM EST
    that the unions keep the wages decent for everyone, not just people int he union. I ask my co-workers all the time whether they really think we would be making what we make if the union workers in the production lines weren't establishing a standard? They really never think about it until I ask - they think they themselves are just making what they are worth, and those union people are cheating somehow.

    Ugh. can't fight the stupid.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:22:29 PM EST
    if the hard lessons about housing and all kinds of things haven't been learned in the last ten years I don't know if anything will teach them short of just almost starving to death.

    I know someone that was doing real estate in my area and she finally quit. She said their salary amounts would like them buy a 140K house but that wasn't good enough. They wanted a 300K to 500K house. So the bank told them no on that amount and they just quit. I understand it's hard to go down in status but sometimes you just gotta suck it up and accept it.

    Parent

    I never want a house larger than THIS one (none / 0) (#70)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:42:49 PM EST
    It's just more to clean.  And your kids, their dream is not to make sure for the rest of your life that the McMansion space is utilized.  Do you ever feel like when you are touring houses anymore that you are just being shown a series of rooms that nobody is ever going to really use?

    Parent
    How many sf (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:49:12 PM EST
    do you have? I have 2800 plus a garage. And it is a ton. Since I had the thyroid cancer this house is just overwhelming when it comes to cleaning and trying to work and now everything needs to be painted. And like you I end up toting the load on all that stuff by myself. Hubby wants to get rid of one of the bedrooms and turn it into an office and I said when eldest son moves out if he ever does maybe we can switch things around. One of the reasons we bought this house was because his family would come and have to stay in a hotel and now guess what? We have the space but no one ever comes anymore. He's ticked about that hence using bedrooms for something else. He always comes up with these great plans which always seem to create more work for me. Sigh.

    Parent
    Ours is exactly the same size (none / 0) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:56:06 PM EST
    My in-laws bought a house though to go with a promotion.  It is double yours and mine, and both kids went to college. I don't think the kids are coming back either.  So it's the two of them and a constant echo and dust?

    Parent
    They're not (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 07:04:44 PM EST
    the only ones. I know plenty of people that have done the same thing. Up the road from us is one of those country club neighborhoods and they have huge houses that people with no kids have bought. Do you ever think about the house you lived in when you were growing up? The first house I remember is a 1200 sf brick ranch, three bedrooms, one full bath and three kids. My sister and I shared a room even though we were 8 years apart. About 1979 my parents bought what was called back then a custom home that they lived in for 30 years. But by then I was off at college too. I'm sure that house would never be good enough for most people these days.


    Parent
    Agreed. (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 01:39:08 PM EST
    Many decent people of good heart throughout WI, KS and GA saw the growing damage, pain and division that their respective governors were sowing upon their states, and if I recall correctly, they complained quite vociferously about it. And finally fed up, they -- uh, did what last November, exactly?

    Oh, yeah! Many of them pouted and stayed home, while most all of their wingbat-crazy neighbors and cousins marched resolutely to the polls and proceeded to re-elect these bozos. Thus, the electorates in all three of those states collectively underscored Woody Allen's astute observation that eighty percent of success can be attributed to simply showing up.

    Democracy ensures that citizens get the government they deserve. It is my earnest hope that one day, most Americans will realize that democracy actually functions best as a fully participatory contact sport, and not as a vicarious form of public entertainment and / or torture.

    Aloha.


    Parent

    But did that smirk... (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by unitron on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:13:33 AM EST
    ...rise to the level of a full Dick Cheney, or was it just one from a mere mortal?

    Parent
    Ooops: 3rd line "surrounding him" (none / 0) (#62)
    by christinep on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 05:48:44 PM EST


    Parent
    premature expostulation (none / 0) (#65)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:12:10 PM EST
    but hey ho - nothing like a righteous fire-breathing rant followed by a sheepish apology

    Ha! Just tell me that dress she is wearing is real (5.00 / 5) (#67)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 06:17:52 PM EST
    is really blue and black, and not gold and white.

    Parent
    Lordy lord (none / 0) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 07:19:34 PM EST
    Scott Walker has been making up his story about the Reagan bible link

    What is wrong with this guy?

    Herzog may be about to (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 09:27:37 PM EST
    Replace Bibi.  Likud has been slipping in the polls a little each day after the storming DC dead cat bounce.

    Perhaps there really is a God :)

    Was this "Herzog" named after Saul (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 12:29:21 AM EST
    Bellow's protagonist or vice versa?

    Parent
    There is but one Herzog... (none / 0) (#96)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 09:30:09 AM EST
    the hated Whitey Herzog, aka The White Rat.

    Parent
    Apparently there CANT be only one. (none / 0) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 11:17:14 AM EST


    Parent
    Univision - Michelle Obama (none / 0) (#79)
    by Slado on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 11:51:49 PM EST
    So did the host deserve to be fired over his remarks?

    Comment in Spanish with translation

    I might have thought an apology and lengthy suspension would have been good enough considering English is his second language and he might not be familiar with how much Americans would be offended by the racism implied by comparing her to apes.  If he'd said horse would it have been any deal at all?

    All that said the Network is well within its rights to fire him since sometimes you just don't get a chance to explain your remarks made on live TV.   Also I'm not sure what he's saying when he states his remarks were taken out of context.   He compared her to an animal in a derogatory way.   What context would explain that better?

    in a word, yes (none / 0) (#86)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:19:13 AM EST
    Univision is an American Spanish-language broadcast TV network, so there's no viable excuse for Figueroa's ignorance about the likely impact of his remarks, & there would have been no upside for Univision in letting Figueroa stick around trying to explain himself, regardless of the "context" (whatever that can possibly mean in this case)

    Parent
    And... (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 10:34:36 AM EST
    ...his co-host tried to talk back the comments at the time they occurred knowing how offensive they were.

    But good to see Slado fighting for a minority using his infamous, 'open minded' question, that is neither a question nor open minded.  You know Slado, you can just state your opinion without the ruse.

    I do find it funny that a unknown Mexican TV personality ranks higher than the President's wife in the republican minority hierarchy.  

    "Michele should just get over a foreigner calling her an ape on the TV."

    Parent

    But Slado did state his opinion. (none / 0) (#115)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 02:36:59 PM EST
    He acknowledged that the Univision co-host's comments were racist and derogatory. He further dismissed the subsequent claim that full context of those offensive remarks would somehow render them acceptable. And yet he still felt that this guy should've been allowed to keep his job, provided that he publicly apologize for what he said. At least, that's how I understood Slado.

    As for my own opinion on the matter, I've heard and read so many racist remarks about the Obamas over these past seven years that my outrage meter went on the fritz sometime in 2012, and I haven't bothered to repair it. Now, I just heave a sigh and roll my eyes, 'cause H8ers gonna H8, etc.

    Personally, I'd have fired this clown and not given it a second thought. But so many media personalities have obviously remained gainfully employed over the years, despite their increasingly vile race-baiting, that I can fully understand Slado's concerns regarding the obvious double standard at play here. Clearly, one guy's out of a job, while Sean Hannity gets a raise.

    Where we likely differ is that given Slado's comment, he'd probably retain a good number of these people were he their employer -- provided they apologize, of course -- whereas I'd sooner Schittcan the entire lot of them and consign their media careers to the nearest trash compactor, rather than see or hear them ever again.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    the double standard (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by CST on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 02:41:55 PM EST
    is pretty simple to explain, IMO.

    I imagine that keeping this guy at Univision would be bad for business.  That's not the case for every business unfortunately.

    Parent

    Exactly.And in this case, ... (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 04:07:54 PM EST
    ... while the businesses share the same field of mass media, their respective target audiences are practically polar opposites. Those who watch Univision would generally be aghast at such remarks, while those who tune into Fox News would probably be inclined offer the guy a standing ovation -- and then demand that he self-deport.

    Parent
    Thanks for the shout out Donand (none / 0) (#140)
    by Slado on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 08:00:44 PM EST
    I don't really understand Scott's problem with me throwing out points of debate when I don't have a 100% opinion on it.  Give your opinion and move on.   Enough with the personal attacks please.  

    I was initially 80/20 on he deserved to be fired because taken on its own there is no context for his remarks and it seems like he might have seen it as a bit or joke that he's been waiting to use for a while.  Should have run it by someone beforehand probably.  

    My only hesitation was that his role as a fashion commentator was said to be similar to Joan Rivers when she was still with us and this was just a bad joke gone awful.   But credit should be given to Univision for acting so decisively and not dragging this out with an apology tour.

    Parent

    That Was My Point... (none / 0) (#189)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 at 03:47:18 PM EST
    ...he uses a question disguised as open-minded to express his opinion.

    Parent
    Capt (none / 0) (#84)
    by Slado on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 12:34:48 AM EST
    you watching " Gangland Undercover"?

    It's on the History Channel.   So far so good.  I really like the main character and since it's based on a true story I'm sure it's going to get good.  

    The bikers are well played and not overdone.  Also being a Donnie Brassco fan I just can't get enough of the basic premise of pretending to be somebody and then how you slowly transform into that person.  

    No (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 08:52:14 AM EST
    i will check it out.  I haven't spoken to you about last weeks Dead.  I am completely in love with Carol.

    Parent
    What a great character (none / 0) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 09:02:17 AM EST
    for the uninitiated she began the series as a battered broken wife with a preteen daughter.  With out real spoilers she kills her husband loses her daughter sort off goes off the deep end, or certainly onto it, does some things so ethically challenged she is banned from the group and dissapperrs from the series only to reappear later and save everyone.  She is now the wild card.  You have no idea what she will do next.  This week a kid catches her doing something that would spoil the carefully woven web of lies her most recent incarnation is and the way she deal with is is the second best thing I've seen on TV this week after Mikes revelations.

    Parent
    The Dig (none / 0) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 11:27:39 AM EST
    first two episodes.  I'm likin it.  Love the mantle photo of Pastor Billinghan and Mitt Romney.  Watch for it.

    Parent
    Carol vs the others (none / 0) (#142)
    by Slado on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 08:40:41 PM EST
    Carol just doesn't disappoint anymore.   Of all the characters she seems to have adjusted the best to the realities of the world they're living in.

    It was fascinating to see Darrell and Rick embrace the possibility of returning to a somewhat normal life when the three of them met back at the house outside the wall.   Also the scene of Michonne hanging up her sword shows she is ready for some normal.   Carol at this point is the only one who won't go there but meanwhile is killing zombies in her flowered mom sweater.  Perfect.

    It's fascinating because we the viewer are like Carol in that we've been burned too many times and are just waiting for Lucy to pull the football away again.  

    The next couple episodes are probably going to build on this theme and lead to another betrayal or a threat that hasn't made itself known yet.   Having read the comics I can say it could be either.   It's why I'm so excited.  


    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 09:33:19 AM EST
    that was the perfect "Carol" scene.  Was what she did justified? She did not hurt him.  She did not yell at him or touch him. She calmly and clearly and in terms he could understand explained exactly what would happen if he ever told anyone.  
    Or you can have cookies.  Lots of cookies.
    I know what I think you should do.

    Viewd alone it looks like the horrific abuse of a child but in fact her very life and those of everyone she loved could easily depend on him believing her.  I believed her.

    The really interesting question is was she threatening him for effect.  OR will some future episode begin with that kid tied to a tree and screaming while being eaten alive by zombies.  Do we know.  I don't think we do.


    Parent

    Oh (none / 0) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 09:56:39 AM EST
    and Darrel's spaghetti dinner with the two gay guys was brilliant.

    Parent
    Also (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 02:21:02 PM EST
    paths and motives are becoming very grey aren't they.  Hard to ignore that ranger Rick is aparrently considering taking out the competition??? What is that about?

    You know.  I just hope the gay guys are not the bad guys.  I really do I like them.

    Parent

    Pistorius' lawyers failed (none / 0) (#87)
    by MO Blue on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 07:16:27 AM EST
    to stop an appeal by prosecutors.

    JOHANNESBURG (AP) -- Oscar Pistorius' lawyers failed Friday in their attempt to stop an appeal by prosecutors that will again seek a murder conviction against the double-amputee athlete for shooting girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

    Judge Thokozile Masipa dismissed an application by Pistorius' defense lawyers to challenge the appeal by prosecutors, who were last year granted permission by Masipa to have Pistorius' negligent killing conviction reviewed. Prosecutors want Pistorius found guilty of the more serious charge of murder for shooting Steenkamp multiple times through a door in a bathroom in his home in 2013.
    ...
    The ruling means Pistorius' case looks set to go to South Africa's Supreme Court of Appeal, where a panel of judges would decide if Masipa's initial verdict to acquit Pistorius of murder at the end of the seven-month trial last year was wrong. link
    But is Hillary Ready for us? (none / 0) (#97)
    by Politalkix on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 09:39:12 AM EST
    link

    The spirit and reform ideas Hillary Clinton and the Center for American Progress are now proposing would fit neatly with the old slogan of "Putting People First." But maybe the new Clinton campaign banner should say: "This Time We Mean It."

    Another source of my skepticism is the practical problem of which political constituencies Democrats must be prepared to abandon this time--working people or financial contributors. EPI's Larry Mishel pointed out that if Hillary Clinton embraces the Larry Summers agenda this "puts her in a bind, you might say." She would be going against Robert Rubin, the Clintons' most influential advisor. The Goldman Sachs and Citigroup banker opened the Wall Street money spigot in 1992 by assuring bankers Bill Clinton's presidency would be good for the country and especially good for bankers.

    Rubin kept his word. Backed up by Summers and Greenspan and of course Bill Clinton, Rubin sold the repeal of Glass-Steagall to Congress (only seven Democratic senators voted against it) then went to work at Citi for $40 million a year. Rubin, Summers and Greenspan brutally trashed Brooksley Born, the only federal regulator who was trying to rein in dangerous derivatives. Rubin arranged a bailout for Mexico's default crisis that was really a bailout for the New York banks and brokerages that made all the bad loans.

    Would Hillary Clinton have the courage to turn on her principal mentor? It seems inconceivable. If she did, wouldn't that turn off the money spigot?

    In a broader sense, the Democratic contest for 2016 is a dramatic collision between outsiders and insiders. The insurgents are rapidly gaining breadth and momentum, but the reigning New Dems are not going to surrender power gracefully. Political machines never do.

    The nation (none / 0) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 10:04:25 AM EST
    was putting forth the notion that Jim Webb would be great and he's to the right of Hillary on all this stuff.

    Parent
    If you want to discuss (none / 0) (#120)
    by Politalkix on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 02:52:49 PM EST
    Please focus on the article that was linked to. Making sweeping statements causes distraction from the issue.

    From what I have heard so far, Webb is to the left of HRC on economic issues but is a troglodyte when it comes to social issues.

    Parent

    Basing your opinion on (5.00 / 3) (#175)
    by MO Blue on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 08:23:22 AM EST
    what you heard is the equivalent of building your house on sand.

    Have you looked at Jim Webb's actual record on economic issues and social issues?

     Jim Webb voted with Republicans and Joe Lieberman to oppose the Democrats' plan to extend the Bush tax cuts for only the first $250,000 in income. Webb wanted millionaires to get their full tax cuts, too.

        ...  In 2012, Jim Webb was the only Democrat to vote against extending reduced interest rates for student loans. He was a staunch student loan reform in general.

     As to him being this great anti-war hero, he voted for every Bush war funding request and

    In May 2007, Webb joined with other conservative Dems to prevent cloture on Reed/Feingold which would have put a time frame on funding the Iraq invasion. Obama and Clinton voted for cloture.

    In September, 2007, Webb joined with other conservative Dems to prevent cloture on another  Reed/Feingold bill which also attempted to put a time frame ending the Iraq invasion. Obama and Clinton voted for cloture.

    It might behoove you to look at his actions rather than relying on current rhetoric.

    Parent

    Being opposed to a stupid war (Iraq)... (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by unitron on Mon Mar 16, 2015 at 06:49:47 PM EST
    ...doesn't mean you're obligated to try to shortchange the military once the idiots go ahead and start it anyway.

    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#191)
    by Politalkix on Mon Mar 16, 2015 at 09:12:37 PM EST
    The arsonists are the politicians who voted YEA for the Iraq war.

    Once the fire fighters (the military) started fighting the blaze, it became a question of whether they would be supported with equipment or not and whether we could leave blazing houses behind from where the fire could spread.

    Why such simple logic eludes MO Blue is beyond me. Her lack of ability to put things in correct perspective is the reason I have so much contempt for her textual diarrhea.

    Parent

    Wander in the desert (none / 0) (#177)
    by Politalkix on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 09:43:31 AM EST
    "what you heard is the equivalent of building your house on sand."

    I think I had made it abundantly clear that I am not even close to starting to think about a house to build, based on choices of land we have so far. Folks like me expect to wander in the desert for a long time :-).

    Parent

    Well (4.40 / 5) (#178)
    by MO Blue on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 10:27:39 AM EST
    IMO it would be nice if while you wandered in the wilderness, you dealt with facts rather than what you heard.

    While I would prefer someone more to the left of Hillary as the Dem nominee, Jim Webb, based on his record, is not the person to carry that banner.

    Parent

    IMO (none / 0) (#181)
    by Politalkix on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 04:42:43 PM EST
    it would be nice if you understood that when I sought facts, you would be about the last person whose posts I would read.

    Parent
    That would be... (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by sj on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 07:28:12 PM EST
    ... (to use one of your favorite sneers) foolish. In the extreme.
    it would be nice if you understood that when I sought facts, you would be about the last person whose posts I would read.
    MO Blue is extremely research oriented. Moreover, she is capable of evolving as new information on any given topic comes to light. Ignoring her posts would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. If, in reality, you were truly interested in facts, and not promoting a pre-defined narrative.

    Parent
    She (none / 0) (#183)
    by Politalkix on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 08:02:48 PM EST
    is very good at providing selective information to support pre-defined narratives while cutting out information that runs counter to narratives and goals she champions. I find many of her posts to be very deceptive.

    I can recall an exchange she had with Anne very recently over an article published in the Atlantic on ISIS. I think it gave me a good idea about how her mind worked.

    Parent

    as if (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by sj on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 08:32:53 PM EST
    I think it gave me a good idea about how her mind worked.
    I don't think you have an accurate read on how anyone's mind works. But that's just my opinion, and everybody has one.

    But suit yourself. Personally, I come here to get additional information/opinion on what I am reading elsewhere. I read your links, even though your commentary doesn't always match the content. Or maybe because your commentary doesn't always match the content. Whatever.

    I even read Slado's stuff -- it gets me the talking points of the day. The only one really not worth reading  here, imo, is jim. And whitehood.

    As I said. Suit yourself. ::shrug::

    Parent

    Why don't you just (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 16, 2015 at 11:32:42 AM EST
    use numbers and make it simple?

    The last time Hillary and Webb were in the senate together was 2008. The rankings were:

    Hillary 88.2 liberal 17.8 conservative
    Webb: 63.8 liberal and 36.2 conservative

    If you want to support Webb fine but honestly don't pretend he's some great "populist hero".

    Parent

    That is hilarious coming from (none / 0) (#186)
    by MO Blue on Mon Mar 16, 2015 at 10:50:30 AM EST
    you, the champion of predefined narratives and agenda driven posts that rely on nothing but your unfounded and uninformed opinions. Heros and villians define your worldview of politics rather than any reliance on facts. Your undisguised double standards when it comes to discussing your hero vs your villians are laughable as well as very visibly disceptive.

    BTW, you might try a little research some time. Then you wouldn't have to resort to childish insults and twisted logic.

    Parent

    i understand perfectly why you (none / 0) (#187)
    by MO Blue on Mon Mar 16, 2015 at 11:07:06 AM EST
    don't want to read facts. They do not support your uninformed opinions. Are you disputing the Congressional record on the votes that Webb casted that undermind your opinion? Are disputing the direct quotes from Webb that directly counter your assumptions?

     It is interesting that when presented with well sourced facts, from myself or other commentators, you never can present any actual facts in rebuttal and therefore must resort to twisted logic and insults.

    Parent

    Look (none / 0) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:44:01 PM EST
    at his voting record. No, he's to the right of HRC on that account too and he's been a very vocal critic of Obama saying he has let the party drift too far left.

    The Nation is gonna say what the Nation is gonna say. How can you respond to a bunch of what ifs? The come across to me as single issue and it's about the war obviously if they think Jim Webb is great because that might be the single issue he's to the right of HRC on.

    The only populism Webb espouses is that black people are taking the jobs of white people. If that's what you want have at it.

    Parent

    That (none / 0) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:46:17 PM EST
    last sentence from what you quoted is complete nonsense. What outsiders are surging? Perhaps only in the rareified world in the corridors of the Nation is this happening.

    Parent
    Who is inside and who is outside? (none / 0) (#137)
    by christinep on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 05:59:09 PM EST
    Think of how the template has been the we-are-not-Washington-insiders from everyone running for everything in the past 15 or so years.  Frankly, I can't think of any Democrat at any competitive national level who isn't an "insider" in some regard.  Funny thing: Tracing the Clintons from the early days in Washington, many of us Clinton supporters would argue strenuously that they were always considered outsiders those days because they were viewed as the rubes from Arkansas ... not the to-the-manor bred Bushies.  Yes, the Clintons were underestimated then; and, continued to be underestimated throughout the years of media "coverage" of Scaife-Mellon vendetta " pseudo-scandals.  Fascinating for insiders, in retrospect.  Ah, the biggie newspapers and Hillary Clinton ... the tale is so intriguing that different reporters are talking about other reporters have always viewed the "insider" Clintons askance.  What a study it will one day be.

    One of the most accurate descriptors that could be attached to Hillary Clinton is COURAGE.  No one, no woman in politics has faced the challenges to position, to actions, to her very person that Hillary Clinton has ... and, taking their measure, faced them down and emerged all the stronger.  Continually, strongly, courageously.  Since you know something of politics, politalkix, you know that ... and you would realize then that the last politician in the US to be concerned about as to whether that person had the courage & ability to face down and defy an associate, if need be, is Clinton.  No, courage is not an issue.

    Hillary is clearly ready; and, many many people are ready for her (in ans. to your opening semi-question.) BTW, emerging polls about her standing vis-à-vis Repubs in the last week shows her far above any likely opponents ... she seems to have emerged from the first pre-test relatively unscathed by those indicators.

    Parent

    Only in India? (none / 0) (#98)
    by RickyJim on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 09:42:39 AM EST
    This apparently really happened.  Maybe such a test should be used for elected officials everywhere.

    Yes... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:48:20 PM EST
    ...we should ask them, and voters, if Saddam was behind 9/11 or if the Obama is a US citizen.

    Parent
    Speaking of progressive..... (none / 0) (#110)
    by vicndabx on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 01:18:36 PM EST
    In a recent press release, {McDonald's} announced its intent to become "a true destination of choice around the world and reassert McDonald's as a modern, progressive burger company." This is a horrible idea, and not just because it is unlikely to work. The world doesn't need another bourgeois burger place that pretends it isn't serving fast food.

    Cheap fast food, the last bastion of true Americana under assault.  What is the world coming to?

    Slate

    Maybe they feel it's necessary... (none / 0) (#112)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 01:57:55 PM EST
    since the cheap fast food ain't so cheap anymore.  Some of those "value meals" are 8 bucks and change after taxes.  

    Compared to the bodegas where you get a heaping plate of fresh delicious and relatively healthy latin food for 5 bucks, or the Chinese joint with the 5.99 lunch special I can get two meals out of, includes Wonton Soup or Egg Roll.

    Regardless, if I get the hankering for a bourgeois burger, I'm going to Five Guys.  

    The only thing McDonald's is good for these days is breakfast...there are cheaper options, but I love me them Sausage Biscuit with Egg and salty hashbrowns.

    Parent

    Dude - tried Shake Shack yet? (none / 0) (#118)
    by ruffian on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 02:46:49 PM EST
    I was a 5 Guys gal till I tried those. Wonderful!

    Parent
    Just the one... (none / 0) (#121)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:06:58 PM EST
    they have at the new Shea Stadium...it was pretty good, especially the black & white shake...probably would be even better at a real stand alone location.  Not too many around here yet, at least in my neck of the ghetto 'burbs...but I've got a couple 5 Guys close by.

    Parent
    I behaved and did not have a shake (none / 0) (#122)
    by ruffian on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:10:08 PM EST
    but the burger was yummy. Alas, here too there is only one location and it is way across town, so the 5 Guys is a lot closer. Probably a good thing they are not close, and do not have drive-thrus. I really have to make a decision to indulge!

    Parent
    Turkey burgers? (none / 0) (#143)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 08:51:47 PM EST
    5 Guys has them.

    Parent
    Their GD Senses (none / 0) (#132)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 04:17:34 PM EST
    That is like saying "cheap, malleable, lead pipe was the last bastion of the Roman Empire".

    McDonalds has been losing market share for years, this is one in a long line of bad ideas they think will bring them back IMO.

    Not sure if you have heard, but diabetes and obesity are a real problem here:

    The cost of obesity to the U.S. economy is well over $250 billion annually, while the median annual physical education budget for U.S. schools is only $764 per school, according to the National Association for Sport and Physical Education.
    LINK

    Parent
    Murder convictions tossed by judge (none / 0) (#119)
    by ruffian on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 02:50:43 PM EST
    Jury verdict overturned for lack of evidence. "Judgement notwithstanding verdict". You sure don't see that every day.

    Economic issues in 2016 (none / 0) (#123)
    by Politalkix on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:33:22 PM EST
    link

    This is the time to discuss. Do not know whether discussion will help or not but I know that no discussion of these issues will NOT help.

    Yes, wealth and income distribution, (3.50 / 2) (#131)
    by NYShooter on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 04:15:05 PM EST
    absolutely, should be a topic for discussion.

    Everything our government did since the collapse of 2008 was to insure that the poor and middle class paid the price for the debacle caused by the 1%, and, even worse, that the 1% were to evolve richer and more powerful than before. In Tim Geithner's immortal words, they were to pay, "not a single penny," towards cleaning up the disaster they caused.

    With all that to work with, HRC shouldn't have a problem distinguishing how she would handle things differently. Even with her connections to Wall Street, and big money, there's enough there to work with to carve out a pathway to prosperity for the middle class, and not needlessly bash the money powers (which, realistically, are necessary for any serious candidate to have a chance.)


    Parent

    Have to wonder. What part of your (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 08:54:41 PM EST
    merited a "2"?

    Parent
    Here (2.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Politalkix on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 09:47:09 PM EST
    "Even with her connections to Wall Street, and big money, there's enough there to work with to carve out a pathway to prosperity for the middle class, and not needlessly bash the money powers (which, realistically, are necessary for any serious candidate to have a chance.)"

    You cannot move the discussion to the left with this attitude.

    Furthermore it almost hypocritical for anyone that has been so critical of Geithner (quite a bit of which is valid) to now recommend taking an approach which would not hurt the feelings of the money powers.

    Howard Dean raised his money from small donors, BHO raised his money from small donors+silicon valley venture capital+wall street, HRC is raising her money from Wall Street and big donors. Atleast Howard Dean and BHO had to debate John Edwards, Kuchinich, and Gravel who tried to move the conversation to the left. The big donors have now strangled the Democratic Party so much to clear the way for their candidate of choice to get the nomination without any opposition that voters in Iran (where the Supreme Leader vets all candidates before they become eligible to contest in elections)had more available choices in the voting booth than a Democratic Party primary voter will get in 2016. We are moving backwards if the goal is to move the country towards more progressive and liberal policy.

    Parent

    Silicon Valley venture capital (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 02:02:44 AM EST
    is the new implosion waiting to happen among venture-backed companies that have issued IPOs

    as for those venture-backed companies that remain private (largely because they would not be profitable at all if the VCs were to pull the plug), it can't help the situation that their so-called angel investors have zero liquidity, which sets up a whole trickle-down tsunami of economic failure

    & can we please, please just retire that old chestnut about Obama & "small donors" - see Ken Silverstein, "Barack Obama Inc.: The Birth of a Washington Machine," Harper's, November 2006 - that golden myth has stood thoroughly debunked for more than 8 years


    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#157)
    by Politalkix on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 01:11:31 PM EST
    limk

    The truth (as usual) is somewhere between what his campaign said and what his campaign's detractors would like people to believe. However, there is no denying the fact that he and Howard Dean made great efforts to develop a grassroots kind of campaign and put a lot of emphasis in small donations.

    Parent

    In 2008 Obama set a record for the (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by MO Blue on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 05:55:57 AM EST
    Amount of money received from Wall Street and the financial sector.

    The 2008 election
    In 2008, President Obama received more than $2.5 million in campaign finance support from employees at Gotldman Sachs (NYSE: GS  ) , JPMorgan Chase (NYSE: JPM  ) , and Citigroup (NYSE: C  ) alone. While there were distinctly more Wall Street firms represented on the list of supporters of John McCain, the reality is that McCain's Wall Street ties only garnered him $1.5 million in support:
    ...
    In total, Obama received more almost $44 million from those in the finance industry, of which $16.6 million came from those classified in "securities & investment," i.e., Wall Street. link

    Even adjusting for inflation, Obama raised more money from these sectors than Bush did in 2004.

    Parent

    But you forgot to mention (3.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Politalkix on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 01:22:49 PM EST
    The $114 million Obama received from these $200-or-less donors exceeded the $85 million his Republican opponent, John McCain, received as his campaign's full public funding for the general election. (see the link I provided in post # 157)

    Parent
    Oh (5.00 / 2) (#173)
    by MO Blue on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 07:51:11 AM EST
    I thought the point of your comment was to highlight the evils of pursuing Wall Street campaign funds.

    Parent
    Our primary goal should be to ... (4.40 / 5) (#149)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 12:52:45 AM EST
    ... keep the friggin' GOP wackos out of the White House in 2016, rather than engaging in philosophical masturbation and organizing a circular firing squad.

    While you've made very clear your dislike for illary Clinton, there are lots of other Democratic voters who feel otherwise -- and fortunately for us, you don't get to define for everyone else who is a good Democrat, and who isn't. I hardly think you're reaching or moving anyone here with your own condescending remarks.

    Thus, you've earned your own "2" rating. Enjoy.

    Parent

    Is this what we've finally come to? (none / 0) (#159)
    by Anne on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 01:35:02 PM EST
    That it isn't realistic to be working on more than just keeping the wackos out, that the bar for electing a Democrat is now at the lowest setting: "not-wacko?"

    Have we just given up on finding a candidate who embodies more of what we actually want from a president?  Or of pushing and pressing those candidates who are almost what we want into being and doing more of what we want?

    And just so you know, Donald, you don't get to define who is and isn't a good Democrat, either, although clearly, you believe yourself to be one, and have on many occasions expressed that anyone who doesn't see things your way isn't.

    And your condescending remarks, your disdain for those who aren't getting in line, are starting to be delivered with an implied "humph" and the dismissive "sniff" from a nose that can't get any higher up in the air without putting you in peril of drowning in a rainstorm.

    For reasons that escape me, "the party" - meaning those in power within the ranks - has put itself into a corner by saving the 2016 nomination for Clinton, and discouraging any challenge to her presumptive candidacy.  We're like a baseball team that decided to eliminate its farm system and leave no one on the bench but old white guys whose glory days - if "glory" is a synonym for "mediocre" - are long gone.  

    Seriously, I might have to stick needles in my eyes if Biden or Kerry decide to hit the primary trail, so as to distract from having to take in the insanity of that exercise in vanity and futility.

    Is anyone going to push Clinton?  Or is this just getting handed to her so we can spend the next year or so trying to find real issues in the compost heap of e-Ghazi and all the rest of the Clinton baggage?

    Fine.  Clinton's not crazy.  Woo-hoo!


    Parent

    At this point (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 01:45:04 PM EST
    I call it all picking the pills off sweaters.  There has NEVER been a pure and perfect Dem President ever.  In my lifetime, the President who was the finest human being from the ground up was the worst President as far as domestic policy.

    I plan on having to push for just about half of everything that is needed.  But I'll tell you when everything that was needed was just frozen in place, and that was the eight years of Bush/Cheney.  And during those eight years our economy evolved into something toxic that cannot be just set aside without taking every single one of us out with it.

    Throw in nuclear proliferation and theocratic extremist governments, and yes Anne, that might be what we have finally come to.

    Parent

    Oh yeah..let us not forget (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 01:57:10 PM EST
    Stacking us with Conservative judges, gerrymandering, and retiring Supreme Court justices.

    Parent
    Tracy, I know there's no one perfect (5.00 / 3) (#163)
    by Anne on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 02:01:49 PM EST
    out there who's going to save us, and as much as I have picked at the Democratic party these last 10 years or so, I do have more confidence a Democrat isn't going to push us over a brink we can't come back from than I do a Republican.

    I don't really want much.  I could give you a list, but suffice it to say that none of the things I want threaten anyone's life, health or bank account - and I can't say the same for anything the other side seems to be behind.

    I just sometimes feel that in trying to save all of us from the crazy, we may have forgotten to put the oxygen masks on ourselves first.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#165)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 02:16:45 PM EST
    With all that.  Sometimes in looking at the things we are unhappy with lately we have taken our eye off the ball and also the things that we did get that we needed.  The Iraq War is over, the military...downsizing...against their will too.  Sequestration is forcing it.  Sometimes a serving President has to place pressure on things he/she doesn't want to in order to be able to get the one thing done that must be done and your DOD was a behemoth that must be fed when Obama took office.

    I do what I can to fight for the active duty military middle class (angelajean coined that term I think), and that group is very strong.  As pressure is applied it is like being in a vice, and military contractors are waving jobs in Generals faces who in turn then go before Congress and sign off on proposals that would destroy the serving middle class so contractors can have more money to play with.

    I will not sit here though and wail about Obama because I know what he's doing and it has got to be done.

    Frankly, it seems at this point I will die fighting or arguing for my needs or some Republican will develop some think tank argument that will place me in the gutter while someone else buys a bigger yacht.  And perhaps that was always the truth.

    Parent

    And the issue of global warming (none / 0) (#161)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 01:53:45 PM EST
    And stalled innovation with a Republican President......

    Let's primary.  And then get on with it all.

    You had better go with someone you know can fight though.  Carter...great human being but no fighter, Obama....great human being who is comfortable arguing with and disappointing his friends and not so much his enemies.  Elizabeth Warren is not a fighter.  She is a great human being, she stumps for extremely important issues.  She flinches at blood sport though and we are there.  We are at a critical point and it won't be bloodless.

    Bernie Sanders fights.  If we can get him off the ground, but he will run as an Indy probably.  We had better make sure though that the person who does NOT get into the White House is the Republican.

    Parent

    "or is this getting handed to her ....?" (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 02:07:59 PM EST
    Yes, just like in 2008.

    Parent
    Just because Donald's (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 02:16:49 PM EST
    goal is not wanting an apocalyptic cult to control the country doesn't make it bad. Wanting to discuss issues doesn't make you bad either. Everybody has "their thing".

    I hope you get a discussion of issues in the primary because that's about the only time it's probably going to happen. Even then there's no guarantee if we have a repeat of 2008 with the other candidates hiding behind Hillary.

    Parent

    No one said it was bad to not want an (5.00 / 3) (#171)
    by Anne on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 10:32:39 PM EST
    apocalyptic cult to control the country.  No one said it was bad to want to discuss issues.  

    But Donald, in case you missed it, decided it was appropriate to deride someone else's Democratic bona fides, and I've had just about enough of pompous pearl-clutchers deciding their brand of Democratic is ever-so-much-better than someone else's.

    I find it interesting that you hope "I" get a discussion of the issues.  For the life of me, I don't know why you aren't expressing that you hope "we" get a discussion of the issues.  

    Are you in this, or aren't you?  

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#172)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 04:38:04 AM EST
    that's because you were the one that raised the issue just like Donald is the one that made the statement about the GOP.

    With the way the press has been running lately and the way campaigns have been run since 2000 with it being all about who you want to have a beer with I really don't have much hope that issues are going to be discussed. I figure it's going to be a repeat where you're going to have to do the research yourself.

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    If you want this to be about (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by MO Blue on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 08:03:59 AM EST
    policy issues you could start the discussion of issues. What are Hillary's current policy positions?

    Parent
    So...issues don't matter to you? (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by Anne on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 09:13:17 AM EST
    I mean, why else would you tell me that if I want to know, I have to do the research?  Seems to me that if you wanted to know, you'd say it was "going to be a repeat where we're going to have to do the research ourselves."

    So, good to know: you're not in this at all.  Because if you are, you should try owning that, speaking about your own opinions and your own thoughts, instead of sitting off on the side "analyzing" the thoughts, comments and opinions of others.  

    Because you're not very good at that: when people have to keep telling you you aren't getting what people are clearly saying, it may be an indication that your analytical abilities - at least as to what other people are thinking and saying - need work.

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 10:49:14 AM EST
    what i said was you're going to have to research the issues yourself apparently because it's not like the press is going to do any analysis.

    If you want to parse "our" and "you" go ahead. Yourself was intended to mean "each person theirselves" For some reason you're taking statements personally.

    Parent

    Just about everyone's pension is at risk (none / 0) (#141)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 08:15:01 PM EST
    I understand why they saved them.  They suck the volatility right out of the world though now in many ways.  They are stagnating innovation while bleeding us at the same time.  What a mean twist.

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    Well (none / 0) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 03:52:57 PM EST
    the main flaw I saw in that article is that Obama basically campaigned on bipartisanship for the sake of bipartisanship and as long as it's bipartisan it must be good and that's not the point they were making and apparently fighting for issues makes the current residents of the Obama white house roll their eyes like it can't be done.  There are some things that are really popular with the voters that using the bully pulpit might make them come up to a vote even with the wacko controlled house.

    Parent
    The main (none / 0) (#135)
    by FlJoe on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 05:17:07 PM EST
    flaw is that the article bizarrely casts the current state of the race  as Hillary vs. Obama. I know we would all like to see Hillary face some tough questions either from a credible opponent or at least from the media. Setting up a strawman debate between these two centrist Democrats does us no good.

    The article ends with a flourish:

    Whatever the truth, Mrs. Clinton's view about these questions now matters more than anyone else's in the Democratic Party.  
     We don't need no stinking truth, give us some answers.
     
    The most influential critic of a president is the one who succeeds him, and she still seems to be the only Democrat with a good chance to do so.  
     So she should immediately criticize Obama, because she is much more influential then the howlers on the other side or something. Brilliant analysis.

    Parent
    Ohhhh ... "Economic issues in 2016" (none / 0) (#133)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 04:40:17 PM EST
    What a refreshing change!  For a second there, I have to admit that I assumed it would be another article about ...

    .... oh.

    Never mind    .

    Parent

    Life (none / 0) (#145)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 09:20:51 PM EST
    Without Bibi?

    Surprising how much of it is an American story too, not just Israels.

    Jeb Bush Emails (none / 0) (#147)
    by Politalkix on Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 11:30:25 PM EST
    link

    NY Times is reporting it. He should also not be given a pass.

    more stuff on jeb bush emails (none / 0) (#168)
    by Politalkix on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 07:29:46 PM EST
    link

    Parent
    Now they're (none / 0) (#169)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 07:48:20 PM EST
    saying he damaged national security with his emails.

    They should be saying he's a moron.

    Parent

    And people say Jeb's (none / 0) (#180)
    by caseyOR on Sun Mar 15, 2015 at 01:15:14 PM EST
    the "smart one."  (snark)

    Parent
    The smart money (none / 0) (#170)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 14, 2015 at 08:08:25 PM EST
    says this story gets no "legs".

    Parent
    Thursday Open Thread | 190 comments (190 topical)

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