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Hillary Makes It Official

Hillary Clinton announced via video today she is running for President.

When I clicked on the video, I thought I was watching a You Tube type commercial and shut it down. On the third try, I realized this was her announcement, not a commercial. Not an auspicious start, in my view. I would much rather she have made a live appearance somewhere to make such a big announcement.

I'm also not crazy about the "middle class" theme. Obama uses that too much. Middle to me means middle America, middle of the road, neither here nor there. It doesn't sound progressive. It's tired. Do I have any better suggestions? [More...]

If I were advising Hillary, I would have suggested she have her eyes done to look fresher, and headed off the critics by announcing the campaign as "The New Me" -- followed by something like "I've come back for You." I would have Hillary ratchet up the pizzaz, not lower it. I don't think "Ho-Hum" wins elections.

Of course, her advisers are telling her not to make the campaign about her, but about us (I guess that's the theory behind using strangers in the video instead of her until the very end, but who is going to identify with them? I sure didn't.)

I also think it's a mistake to appeal to any one group over another. If she is going to champion a group, why not pick the poor, the downtrodden, the disenfranchised, the voiceless, and promise to speak for them?

I'd obviously make a terrible campaign strategist. Am I voting for her? Of course. But I always vote for the Democrat. She doesn't need to convince me.

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    I liked it; it surprises me how much (5.00 / 7) (#3)
    by Anne on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 04:42:58 PM EST
    I liked it.

    It was positive, happy, hopeful without being hokey.  It showed all the different kinds of families, at all different stages of their lives.

    I think she looks great - no need to have her eyes done, unless she wants to take the chance that, like John Kerry, she'll end up looking like aliens took her up to the mothership, took her apart and didn't quite put her back together right.

    What's left of the middle class needs somebody's attention; it's still just a major illness or job loss away from sinking out of sight.

    I liked that it wasn't the traditional announcement; I think it could signal that she's not going to play the same game she did in 2008.  

    Oh, well...let the games begin, eh?

    Considering it is probably the last campaign ad (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:56:42 PM EST
    I will click and intentionally watch, it was fine. One criticism of her is usually that she's been around too long and people are sick of her, so I thought it was smart to show other people, and not the usual bombastic campaign announcement stuff. That's been done enough -even by her. She had to do something different this time.

    As far as focusing on the middle class instead of the downtrodden...well, the middle class is feeling pretty downtrodden these days, shrinking by the minute. Shoring it up needs to be a priority, as of course we maintain the safety nets for those less fortunate than the middle class.

    Parent

    We can't maintain (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:58:58 PM EST
    the safety net without a healthy middle class.  The rich damn sure won't do it.

    Parent
    Very good point. The middle class should be (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 07:02:57 PM EST
    a lot more receptive to the traditional Dem message, since they can see the ease of slipping lower on the economic ladder.

    In theory anyway, does not always hold true in all parts of the country, ahem, where the 'cultural issues' take center stage.

    Parent

    Not to go OT (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 04:53:03 PM EST
    but yes on Kerry.  I was watching him this morning.  He's like a Anime character.  Only his lips move when he talks.  No other part of his face.

    Parent
    Botox? Disney animatronics? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:21:10 PM EST
    I haven't watched him in years.

    Parent
    My guess is (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:31:19 PM EST
    Botox with a capital B.

    Parent
    It has to be better (none / 0) (#37)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 08:55:54 PM EST
    Than the tanning booth and orange complexion.That was horrible. Then he wore that brown suit at the convention. No one wears a brown suit and wins. I had high hopes for him until I saw the suit. Heh.

    Parent
    Botox doesn't change the shape of (none / 0) (#40)
    by Anne on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:02:05 PM EST
    your face/jaw - pretty sure that was a surgical thing.

    And not very well done, either.  That kind of plastic surgery should make you look like your younger self, not someone else.

    Parent

    He does look (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:25:20 PM EST
    quite.....artificial

    Parent
    I'm (none / 0) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 05:03:12 PM EST
    with you on the face. There's plenty of people who will identify with that.

    Parent
    As a not Hillary fan... (none / 0) (#43)
    by magster on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:11:38 PM EST
    I thought it was great. Very well done and un-narcissistic video.

    I will sure as blank vote for her over any Republican if it comes to that.

    Parent

    I thought (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by lentinel on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 04:47:28 PM EST
    it was really weird, albeit a sign of the times, that Clinton would kick off her campaign by releasing a slick, highly produced video.

    A personal presence would have been infinitely more dynamic.

    She featured many groups of people - as many as they could figure out I guess - but no Jews with Yarmulkas. Huh uh. Can't go there.

    And no women concerned with making a choice of terminating an unwanted pregnancy.

    No. Definitely can't go there.

    Just people starting businesses.
    People growing tomatoes.
    Training their doggies.
    Couples getting married.
    Young people entering the job market.
    "This country was founded on hard work."

    Nice.

    She would be better, I expect, than any of the Republicans vying for the nomination, and the rest of the democratic field looks truly uninspiring to me.

    But just about anyone could have made that video.
    Jeb could have made that video.
    He probably will.

    They care.
    They're on our side.
    Work hard. Stay in school. Train your dog.
    Join them.

    Zzzzz


    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 05:05:35 PM EST
    Jeb already has a video out and it's the most lame thing ever. He sounds like his brother yammering on about "big government" droning about "Obama/Clinton" blah blah blah.

    Hillary's video is way, way better than what Jeb put out.

    Digby has the video if you want to see it.

    Parent

    I suppose (none / 0) (#10)
    by lentinel on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:00:51 PM EST
    it will be a battle of production companies.

    Everybody looked great in Hillary's video.

    Nobody sick.
    No blind people.
    No people in wheelchairs.
    No visits to Veterans Hospitals.
    No unsightly ghettos.
    No people working full time and not being able to make ends meet.

    Maybe we'll get to that in part two.

    I haven't got the stomach to watch the Jeb video. Actually I couldn't find it - tried to google Digby and Jeb Bush video - No luck.

    But touting "this country was founded on hard work" sounds like a phrase he could use and probably has at some time.

    Actually, I think the country was founded on scamming and murdering the Native Americans, and slavery.
    But hey... Hard Work sounds better.

    I apologize to all those who were impressed with what they saw. Forget I said anything.

    Parent

    "Hard Work sounds better..." (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:34:03 PM EST
    but only slightly better - than dumber brother Dubya's "workin' man" vernacular, "workin' hard."

    While I'm in the area, here's a helpful hint for those planning to watch the upcoming campaign agitprop blitzkrieg.  Have a snorkel handy.  You'll need it, because you're going to be buried in bull$h$t.


    Parent

    I saw on CBS (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:10:06 PM EST
    that Jeb claims that he could do better than Hillary/Obama on Foreign Affairs. I could not stop laughing. Like, how did we get all messed up, like starting a war with Iraq over non existent WMDs and claiming Iraq was behind 911. I don't remember seeing that any of the pilots came from Iraq.

    In an ad run by the Right to Rise PAC, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush launches a pre-emptive strike on former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's expected presidential bid, releasing an ad critical of the "Obama/Clinton" and says Bush will have a better grasp on foreign policy. Bush has not officially announced that he will be running for president. "We must do better than the Obama/Clinton foreign policy," Bush said.

    Parent

    Chuckling, (none / 0) (#178)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:15:26 PM EST
      but I'm sitting here imagining the slogan that would come from a roundtable of her ardent supporters  here.

     Probably something along the lines of:

      If you don't like Hillary, you are a fascist sexist pig, so go  F#$# yerself.

     All in all, I think the blander approach is a better choice.

    Parent

    Chuckling (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:18:53 PM EST
    if you think that thought process will get us to ignore it.

    Not. Gonna. Happen.

    Didn't work last time, won't work this time. All it will do is make you look like a part of the problem this nation has with sexism. Which I'm sure you are fine with . . .

    Parent

    OMG, sometimes I read your comments, (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Anne on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 08:04:17 PM EST
    and then want to stick needles in my eyes...

    Which is what millions of people would want to do if Clinton - or anyone - made a video with funereal music playing and the sick people, blind people, people in wheelchairs, or in ghettos, and women agonizing over getting an abortion you seem to think she should have featured.

    What did I leave out?  People with hideous birth defects?  Drug addicts in withdrawal?  Old people in substandard nursing homes lying in their own filth?

    Why, I can almost hear Sarah McLachlan's "Angel" playing in the background, and hey - how about a few near-frozen or abused dogs to do a cameo?

    Jesus.

    Parent

    Jesus. (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by lentinel on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 08:56:29 PM EST
    Yes.

    What was I thinking?

    Oh my God. I'm sorry.

    Turning the focus onto the realities of everyday life for millions of Americans would have been just so...maudlin.

    Work hard and you'll succeed.
    Stay in school.
    Train your dog.
    Enjoy your retirement.
    Everything is coming up roses.
    Just say no.

    Great ad!

    Parent

    Most of those things you wrote? (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Anne on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:12:05 PM EST
    Work hard and you'll succeed.
    Stay in school.
    Train your dog.
    Enjoy your retirement.
    Everything is coming up roses.
    Just say no.

    Millions of people are doing just that.  Or trying to.  They are going about the ordinary business of living their lives as best they can.  Does that mean that no one is struggling, that everyone is succeeding, that there isn't poverty and hopelessness?

    Of course not.  But I have no reason to think those issues won't be part of the narrative that develops; even though I agree we could be doing a lot better for people, I don't think, as a campaign tactic, it works to wallow in despair.  I just don't think that works as a campaign theme.  As much as you and I do not like to see the realities of people's lives used and manipulated in order to win elections, no one's winning this one running on the deeply depressing theme you seem to be looking for.

    I thought the announcement was effective as a first message; it isn't going to be the last message.

    Parent

    Sometimes I read his comments.... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by magster on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:28:10 PM EST
    and then...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSALQn0u9z4

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:23:08 PM EST
    there's time to get to that. This was just a big overarching kind of announcement.

    But you know if she had showed poverty in ghettos today the story would have been Hillary starring in "Obama's America" and "look what Obama has done to American and even Hillary thinks he is awful" blah blah blah.

    Parent

    I certainly (none / 0) (#41)
    by lentinel on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:06:44 PM EST
    agree with that.

    Turning the spotlight on the dismal condition of America's ghettos, for example, does reflect rather poorly on "Obama's America".

    Hillary is in between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

    She has to appear to offer to help the millions of people left behind - struggling to survive - without seeming to criticize the incumbent.

    I read that Obama said that he thought Hillary would make an "excellent" President. "Excellent". Not "Great". My visceral reaction was that his
    "endorsement" was tepid. Clinical. Intellectual.
    Without passion.

    No love lost.

    Nertz.

    Parent

    That, with a touch of (none / 0) (#59)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 10:45:37 PM EST
    'What does rich Hillary Clinton know or care about poor people? There she goes again, pretending to relate to being 'broke'."

    It's a tightrope, I kind of wish she had waited a little longer before starting the walk.

    Parent

    Jeb's video (none / 0) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:24:46 PM EST
    OY! (none / 0) (#47)
    by lentinel on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:18:17 PM EST
    Just watched Jeb.

    Creepy crawly!

    But really, his stomach turning line:

    I believe that every American has the right to rise, and the opportunity to achieve the American Dream.

    is not substantially different than the rosy picture Clinton is portraying with people working hard, going to school, enjoying their retirement... and featuring one entrepreneur intoning that our "country was founded on hard work".

    They both are selling us on the American Dream.

    I don't buy it.

    What a contest it's going to be between these two.

    Lastly, Jeb's idiotic catch phrase is going to be something about our "right to rise".

    Beyond the sort of funny reference to male anatomy, it is one of the dumbest lines in the history of slogans.

    Parent

    Jeb's video (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 06:03:57 AM EST
    sounds like an ad for Viagara.

    Parent
    I thought that (none / 0) (#133)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:13:48 AM EST
    But did not want to be the one snickering. So thanks.Heh.

    Parent
    Along those lines... (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by lentinel on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:25:04 AM EST
    HIllary's "logo" for her campaign features an arrow pointing right.
    It is also an unfortunate choice in my opinion...

    I'm telling you... these two....
    Oh God.

    Parent

    Forward (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:39:31 AM EST
    would you have preferred it pointing the other way, backwards?

    Parent
    Frankly, (none / 0) (#160)
    by lentinel on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:56:57 PM EST
    it was more that the arrow is used to signify the male gender.

    I know.

    It's just a logo.

    Parent

    Sometiems an arrow is just an arrow (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:50:15 PM EST
    Didn't Churchill (none / 0) (#172)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 02:01:31 PM EST
    say that?  

    Parent
    Freud (5.00 / 3) (#173)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 02:05:20 PM EST
    Didn't Freud snatch (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:52:47 PM EST
    that from Groucho?

    Parent
    When I (none / 0) (#189)
    by lentinel on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:00:31 PM EST
    saw it, I really had no idea what it was supposed to mean.

    I certainly didn't see it as something indicating "forward".

    It looks more like an exit sign --- as in, "this way out..."

    :-)

    Parent

    I'm gonna bet (none / 0) (#161)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:01:46 PM EST
    You are one of a handful people who see the symbol for male in her logo.

    Parent
    Totally (none / 0) (#164)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:06:48 PM EST
    true. Most people are going to see that as an arrow and nothing else. Even saying that it looks like something else is kind of silly.

    It's not like she named her PAC Right to Rise or something.

    Parent

    Why Do Campaigns Need a GD Logo (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:23:13 PM EST
    To me it looks too commercial, I prefer the older one, which isn't really a logo.

    Like a logo is going to win an election and she doesn't have to change every single thing from four years ago.

    Parent

    Every image with an arrow (none / 0) (#166)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:12:29 PM EST
     does not look lik


    Parent
    oops (none / 0) (#167)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:14:01 PM EST
     meant to say  doesn't look like the male symbol anymore than every image with a hand in it looks like you are flipping off someone.

    Parent
    You probably have a problem with (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Anne on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 02:38:22 PM EST
    right-turn arrows on traffic lights, too...

    Parent
    The Logo (none / 0) (#175)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 02:46:48 PM EST
    Link

    "I don't understand the emotional violence in response to the logo," legendary graphic designer Milton Glaser told CNNMoney. "It's all a little naive, if you ask me."

    Glaser, creator of the "I ♥ NY" logo and co-founder of New York magazine, said he likes the logo. He conceded that it was "a little bit generic," but not too much so. In fact, he said it was "effectively simplified." It gets Clinton's message across and it's memorable -- two crucial check boxes to tick off for any marketing campaign.

    "It's an effective piece of graphic design, because it encompasses the idea of her name and the idea of movement," Glaser said. "That's the stated objective of the logo, and it embraces what the campaign wants to say."

    Clinton's logo is particularly well done compared to other candidates for office, Glaser said.




    Parent
    To Me... (none / 0) (#186)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:51:29 PM EST
    ...it doesn't match her announcement, the logo is rigid and cold, almost utilitarian in it's simplicity.  Where as this is softer and more inviting/accepting IMO.

    Parent
    I agree with that (none / 0) (#190)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:01:22 PM EST
    I was surprised when I finally saw it. the one at the link does fit the announcement video better, IMO.

    Parent
    Oh no - is the arrow meant to mean Hillary is (none / 0) (#188)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:59:28 PM EST
    turning right?

    Parent
    A rightward pointing arrow (none / 0) (#140)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:35:49 AM EST
    In logos and advertising, generally symbolize "Moving forward / Moving towards the future.". (See: the FedEx logo)

    Parent
    My suggestion for (none / 0) (#181)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:37:42 PM EST
    Republican candidates is a fasces, in red, white and blue.  Applies to all--let them fight over it.

    Parent
    Oh my god (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:40:33 PM EST
    the logo????

    Should we serve cheese with the whine.

    Parent

    Yes, a logo for (none / 0) (#185)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:50:03 PM EST
    the side of the clown car.  I am sure that the Republican campaigns would like the red, white and blue part.

    Parent
    Naturally, I liked it ... but, more than that (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by christinep on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 05:21:08 PM EST
    the thought and preparation going into the announcement is becoming quite obvious.

    One: A Sunday ... different it itself; and, a family day and, for many, a day off and time to see, reflect.

    Two: The independence of doing it her way is striking.  Heck, everyone has huge announcements, confetti, almost parades ... everyone does that and everyone knows that everyone does that.  They talk, talk at you about how good they are.  Mostly, they want to be noticed and break through.  IMO, Hillary is wise to take advantage of her strengths from the get-go.  She has no problem with the sine qua non "name identity" (she is even a first-namer.) Everybody does it is just that ... she always has been different with her person, drive, wherewithal, and resilience. No need to get in the game of who delivered the most intense or in-your-face opening speech.  That is for Cruz and Paul and Rubio and maybe even J. Bush.

    Three: My husband watched it first.  He said: You are going to be surprised ... then smiled, nodded, and said that she doesn't say anything for the first minute and a half.  We watch together ... my gosh, says I, she is showing other humans at stage center, all of them looking forward to or aspiring to something that Americans aspire to, etc. etc. etc.  A real diversity.  (And, to tell you the truth, it was genuinely nice to see "emotions" on the faces that didn't concentrate on huffing & puffing anger (the angry this, the angry that) after so many campaigns ignoring most of the people that make up this country.

    Four: After hearing several days back that a low-key "listening tour" would follow, I wondered "huh."  Gradually, it dawned on me that--with all the months left in the campaign to be talked at--the approach was sensible plus.  People are always saying that the candidate should listen ... well, how can they, if they are talking all the time to all the special interests that comprise the particular party.  Talking among the houses, student groups, working groups or Iowa and New Hampshire and all to come over the next month or so could just be the innovative strategy that breaks the mold ... it allows her time and real input to assess day-to-care concerns.  And, guess what??? I suspect that it will drive the there-must-be-a-lazy-headline-everyday press up the proverbial tree.  Good on her.  It is her campaign not theirs.

    Five: To some, the middle-class may be mundane.  Well, for the number of people who inhabit the middle class and working class Americans, it is the center.  Yes, everyone talks about helping the middle-class ... but, with her disciplined focus and refusal to do the rah-rah-rally routine, she is not only taking charge; but, I'd expect actual positive gains to come from it.  

    Listening while the usual wannabes are talking and dancing for the press.  That never has been Hillary.  Hillary is pacing it.  This is going to be good.  

    I disagree with you sometimes (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 05:28:13 PM EST
    but not I think on this.  Agree with pretty much all of that.  It was very smart.  For all the reasons you state.  Everyone knew she was running.  Everyone knows who she is.  This was a rather brilliant low key way of saying lets get this party started.  We have 18 months to hear details.

    Parent
    Thanks, Capt....the 18 mos. reminder (none / 0) (#12)
    by christinep on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:11:26 PM EST
    is a good one.  I'm trying not to hyperventilate... since my "heart is on my sleeve" in this one.  Mantra for me: Deep breath, periodically; savor and live fully the run and the historic reality ... and, with a nod to those gone, redouble effort to help us truly be the country of our never-forgotten vision.  

    Hey, I'm getting weepy from so many good things today--especially, the HRC announcement and promise--and, fwiw, some good merlot.  In a little while, more merlot and dinner followed by fun watching on TV to let the mind flow in all kinds of directions ...'hope "Madame Secretary" and "Good Wife" are on tonight.

    Parent

    Merlot (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:26:23 PM EST
    and Sunday nite TV

    ahhhhhh

    Parent

    Cersei sized wine goblet (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:58:57 PM EST
    Yes, there is still, sigh, 18 months of this. No need to fire the big guns and hit all the targets on the first day.

    Parent
    OH captain - 18 long months (none / 0) (#139)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:32:41 AM EST
    Of annoying repetitive political ads. It is like Chinese water torture watching them. Hey, who am I kidding, that is why we have a remote. The only problem, to quote Chickenman, "they are everywhere, they are everywhere."  

    BTW, nice picture of Hillary and a family at a gas station on her road to Iowa.

    Parent

    Magster ... calling Magster (none / 0) (#57)
    by christinep on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 10:29:28 PM EST
    What is the basis?  Since I know that this comment of mine was in no way trolling, obscene, or anything else vile ... what gives with your "1" rating?  Usually, one just shrugs off a disagreement, etc. ... but here, what am I missing?

    Parent
    It was a wonderful comment. (none / 0) (#63)
    by magster on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 10:59:21 PM EST
    Double and triple derp.

    Parent
    Saw I accidentally troll rated you.... (none / 0) (#62)
    by magster on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 10:58:15 PM EST
    switched to a "5" I hope.

    Parent
    Thanks, magster (none / 0) (#118)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:40:42 AM EST
    For most people, the Clinton Brand ... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:24:50 PM EST
    means a good economy. So she was very wise to put her focus there. All the stories included in the video gave a quick snapshot of her vision of what America is. And it was the type of inclusive vision you would expect.

    And I also like how she spoke about "earning" our votes.  

    She will have to do a lot to earn my vote.  Although I was supporter of hers in 2008, the Democrats abysmal handling of the financial crisis, and embracing of neo-con foreign policy, makes it unlikely that I will support anyone in the party.

    But I will listen.  

    And it was much better than her 2008 announcement video.

    Wow, watching the talking heads, (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:17:32 PM EST
    they really, really don't like her.   They criticize every little thing.  It is beyond unfair--it's pathological.  And extends well beyond the Right Wing.

    As a long time Obama supporter since Iowa, I was more interested in Obama winning than what was unfair to her.  Now, seeing the landscape from a standpoint of a Hillary supporter, she will have to just tough it out....

    That SNL skit was not flattering (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:34:28 PM EST
    They portrayed her as a loud big tooth witch actually. It was not funny. And so it begins. I just wish they would talk policy and experience and leave out the bad hair day or the lines or cankles. The media are very unfair to her in that way. You don't hear them discussing or pointing out that a man has a pimple on his forehead. I am not a raging feminist but I don't appreciate the media treating her any different on appearance than that of a male candidate.

    Parent
    I think it's going to backfire (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:39:03 PM EST
    rather when they told us 24/7 for years we should hate her husband and his approval numbers just kept going up.

    Parent
    Leave SNL Out of It (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:11:57 PM EST
    They make fun of political figures, and unfortunately for them there isn't really anything much for Hillary.  When you have to bring in Darrell Hammond to try and make your skit about Hillary funny, you are in trouble.

    You are conflating a comedy show with the actual media.

    Why the Bill shtick isn't funny.
    One would have to be 37 years old to have been able to vote for Bill Clinton.  That is crazy, but the point is come on, it's been 15 years, can we stop with the Bill Clinton philandering jokes already.  And for the love of god, please don't pull out the McDonald's jokes.

    I am looking forward to maybe Dana Carvey & Will Farel giving whomever play Jeb some advise.

    Parent

    I expect others will not find the press (none / 0) (#53)
    by christinep on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:37:17 PM EST
    routine funny or compelling.  Then--as in times past--the "objective" press will move on a bit.

    Parent
    Great minds (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:39:41 PM EST
    I thought it was kind of funny. (none / 0) (#64)
    by magster on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 11:01:28 PM EST
    I'm a big Darrell Hammond fan.

    "Did someone say "women everywhere!!?"

    Parent

    Yeah, a real screamer (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by NYShooter on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:29:14 AM EST
    about as funny as Moe, Larry, and Curly poking each other in the eyes.

    Very original; must've taken days for the writers to think up that gut buster.

    Parent

    In a strange way, MKS, (none / 0) (#52)
    by christinep on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:34:31 PM EST
    this compunction or tendency of the press to "go negative" in a very obvious way when Hillary Clinton is involved is not only nothing new, but the political history shows that there always is a boomerang effect.  Why? My take is that the press' negative obsession in past has obscured reason on their part and they tend to go too far--and, voila, the public responds in support of her with high regard and high poll numbers.  Indeed, it is a strange phenomenon.  As for the coming weeks, I suspect that her focus on regular individuals during her listening tour will offend the limelight-seeking press and their resultant over-the-top critiques of HRC will--as always--redound in her favor.  In 5...4...3...2.....

    Parent
    Appealing to the middle class (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by txpolitico on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 10:13:05 PM EST
    is never tired.  Who was she supposed to direct her message to...Hollywood?  

    This is why we,as liberals, lose elections.  The R's pander and then go work for the 1%.  That type of comment/attitude is where the 'elitism' label comes in.

    Disappointing to read this considering that TL was one of the few sites back in 2008 that backed HRC.


    It occurred to (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by lentinel on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 07:02:12 AM EST
    me that Hillary, as many have said, is walking a delicate line.

    On the one hand, she has to present herself as someone who can improve the lot of the "average" American. Next to that, she could present herself as someone who is out to improve the lot of those at the very bottom of the economic scale. The hopeless among us.

    On the other hand, she has to make things kind of rosy, lest she infer that the Obama years have been less than fruitful.

    Jeb is under no such constraints.
    We are weak and he will make us strong --- and all that horrific Bushian b u lll s h-ttt.

    It made me recall Hillary during the "debates" (what a farce) in 2008 when she was campaigning for the nomination against Barack.

    I remember her saying at the end of one of those debates how thrilled she was to be on the same platform as BARACK OBAMA!
    Gush.
    I thought she had lost her mind.
    I believe I said so in a post to that effect, and was remanded - she was doing the right thing politically.

    But I believe she sent the message, sh-t - if Hillary thinks that Barack is so great, why in the world should I vote for her?

    And, as we know, she lost the nomination.

    In short - I think she should, in the coming months, take the gloves off.

    Obama has been very measured in his support of her, in my opinion, and she owes him nothing. Less than nothing.

    If she implies that there is nothing to fix, she will lose imo - even if she is running against someone like Jeb, who seems so dumb to me that W. seems like a bloomin' genius compared to him.

    That approach has the advantage of honesty too (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 07:11:21 AM EST
    Don't try to tell people things are great, we can see that the recovery is slow and weak and has not reached everyone. It can be put in terms that don't trash Obama- he tried, it wasn't enough, put the blame for a lot of the failure on the GOP.

    Reagan could pretend it was morning in America because it rang true for his upper class base. Clinton can't - it's just not true for the Dem base.

    Parent

    full disclosure (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by CST on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:48:11 AM EST
    between foreign policy, the supreme court, keeping the ACA intact, and staffing the EPA - there's no way I'm not voting for the Democrat in the general election.

    If Bernie Sanders decides to throw his hat in the ring he's got my vote, because Bernie Sanders is the $hit.  Otherwise, I don't see anyone jumping in who will top Hillary, but we shall see.

    I think one thing we're gonna see, is a lot of the news media and the "internet boys" hating on her nonstop.  Similar to what happened in '08.  It is what it is.  But frankly listening to those news outlets in '08 you would've thought that she didn't stand a chance and Americans hated her.  In reality it was extremely close.  So I will probably self-impose a news-blackout from most sites doing Clinton "election analysis".  It's gonna be ugly, and it will most likely be wrong as well.

    The irony (none / 0) (#106)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:50:51 AM EST
    is the more they come down on her the more she thrives. I remember in '08 she kept going through a rain of h*ll and went on to win things she was never supposed to win.

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#116)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:30:32 AM EST
      Refresh my recollection.

     I recall that as late as November of 2007, she had a huge lead in the nomination polls. I also seem to recall she didn't get it.

      Never mind, not trusting my recollection over your memory, I googled it.

      November 2007

       OK, I was right about the polls in 11/07. Am I misremembering the outcome?


    Parent

    Oh, (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:43:39 AM EST
    I'm talking about she was supposed to lose the primary in Ohio and PA and all the yelling for her to quit. She ended up with more votes than Obama back in '08 despite all that. She fought to the very end.

    Parent
    Hillary ran a good Primary campaign (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:54:17 AM EST
    after Iowa, contrary to current critics....She did win big Primaries in New York, California, Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania....

    And more important, she was a good campaigner after Iowa.....focusing then on the lunch pail economics that she wants to focus on this time.

    Parent

    The last 1/3'd of the Primary season (5.00 / 4) (#151)
    by NYShooter on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:17:10 PM EST
    things got really interesting as it became obvious that the momentum had swung strongly to Hillary. I remember the news reporting that a certain degree of "voter's remorse" had set in, while simultaneously, calls for HRC to quit by Obama supporters became ever more shrill and desperate sounding.

    I wonder what the results of a poll would have been, if taken during the final week(s) of Hillary's campaign, and asked of voters who had already cast their ballot for Obama, the question being, "If you had not voted yet who would you vote for today?"

    I'm not aware of any such poll having been taken; does anybody here remember anything of this sort? My interest in this question is that that primary was such high drama, and so debatable, that the answer to my question would put to bed many of the questions that keep that Primary so interesting to this day.

    Parent

    I don't think (none / 0) (#158)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:45:10 PM EST
      any such poll was ever conducted. Other than the Republican opposition wantng to undermine the inevitable nominee, I don't see any reason why such a poll ever would be conducted.

      As for you recalling a pro-Hillary shift from April to June of 2008, my recollection is different. Again, I googled:

    NBC/WSJ
    March 24-25, 2008 Barack Obama 45%, Hillary Clinton 45%, Other 1%, None 1%, Undecided 8%

    CBS  3/28-4/2
    Barack Obama 46%, Hillary Clinton 43%, Other 3%, No Opinion 8%

    AP 4/7-9
    Barack Obama 46%, Hillary Clinton 43%, Other 3%, No Opinion 8%

      I'll et you look for polls from late May and early June to see if Hillary had gained.

    Parent

    And BTW (none / 0) (#159)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:47:12 PM EST
    We forgot about the 'open' primaries in some states where people could vote for anyone in any party. Maybe the GOP thought they could win against Obama easier than Hillary. Glad they were wrong at least. Maybe they will not try that again. I still believe that is wrong as a registered party member should not be able to control the outcome of a primary by voting for the other parties candidates.

    Parent
    Yer gonna retraumatize everyone :) (none / 0) (#120)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:49:46 AM EST
    Everyone go to your happy place now

    Parent
    I really (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:51:24 AM EST
    don't want to go there but apparently there are people that have very selective memories.

    Parent
    There indeed are (none / 0) (#124)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:55:50 AM EST
    We all need a happy place to go to for the next freaking 20 months.  We will have been able to have completed two full term pregnancies before this is over.  Holy Sheetz :) Maybe we need a weekly happy place diary.  We could take turns creating them :)

    Parent
    Again, really? (none / 0) (#122)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:53:39 AM EST
    November 26 - December 3, 2007 Clinton 45%, Obama 19%, Edwards 13%, Biden 3%, Kucinich 2%, Richardson 1%, Dodd 1%, Gravel -, Other -, Undecided 13%

    Quinnipiac University November 6-11, 2007 Clinton 42%, Obama 17%, Edwards 14%, Kucinich 4%, Biden 3%, Richardson 1%, Dodd -, Gravel -, Other -, Undecided 17%

    Quinnipiac University October 1-8, 2007 Clinton 47%, Obama 19%, Edwards 11%, Kucinich 2%, Biden 2%, Richardson 1%, Dodd -, Gravel -, Other -%, undecided 15%

      Those are Ohio Dem primary polls from November, 2007.

      It also appears he peaked later, 3 months prior to the Ohio primary day

      February 6-12, 2008 Clinton 55%, Obama 34%, Other 2%, Undecided 9% (2 person race by this point)

      She got about 53% in the actual election, so it really seem as if she was ever "supposed to lose" Ohio or did better than long held expectations.

      If you want to say she maintained in Ohio despite the free falls elsewhere, you have a point.

     

    Parent

    I am (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:59:36 AM EST
    not talking about the 2007 polls.

    There were also polls saying that she was going to lose Ohio. You're selecting the ones that actually were right but a lot of them were not.

    And you didn't address the fact that a lot of people were calling on her to quit even though she was still winning primaries.

    Whatever. Go back to your viagara commercials that you hope to win the presidency.

    And like MKS says above she got better after Iowa.

    Parent

    link to one (none / 0) (#138)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:30:33 AM EST
    Refresh my recollection, as I asked


    Parent
    Zogby (none / 0) (#141)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:38:03 AM EST
    had it tied but they have taken the poll down. It's the one people like you were clinging to.

    You need to face facts that there is no one who is going to come out of the wilderness this time no matter how much you hope it happens.

    Joe Biden is polling the highest at 12% link

    Even Obama was polling better than that back in 2008.

    Parent

    Thought so. (none / 0) (#149)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:06:35 PM EST
     IOW, it's not my selective memory but only your claimed memory of the most anti-Clinton pollster once calling a tie.

      As for the people who wanted her to withdraw by May 2008, I'm sure you would never be like that.

      So, I am sure you are willing now to commit yourself to vocally oppose any call for a Clinton challenger to withdraw in May 2016, even if it is obvious it would take a confluence of miracles in short order for the challenger to have any chance of being the nominee.

      A simple, "yes I so commit," for the record will suffice.

       

    Parent

    As for (none / 0) (#154)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:21:55 PM EST
    me I wanted the process to play out.

    You read me completely wrong. I don't care about challengers. Challengers are fine. I have said time and again I don't want a repeat of the monkey business that went on back in 2008. Obama people calling for her to quit sounded like a bunch of whiny adolescents who could not stand a challenge. Frankly I think she can take a challenge.

    Parent

    I just remember SC (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:39:07 PM EST
    I could not believe my friends believing the SC story that Bill was a racist. Of all people.It was a dirty but effective trick, but she did not throw in the towel. She is strong and I believe that she will not sit quietly while Republicans refuse to do nothing. That was their plan and they stuck to it at the expense of the American people. At the expense of the middle and of the less fortunate class.

    Parent
    Is that a long winded "yes, I so commit" (none / 0) (#155)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:24:48 PM EST
     or avoidance and a  deflection back to how mean Obama people were to her?

    Parent
    It seems (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:04:32 PM EST
    to me calling for someone to quit because you don't like a challenge is whiny but I guess you think that kind of thing is okay.

    Look you've already said nobody is going to vote for an "old lady" so I know where you are coming from.

    Parent

    OK (2.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:16:38 PM EST
     you will not go on record with a commitment yourself but you will continue to whine petulantly over something from 7 years ago.

     At least we have cleared that up.

    Parent

    I'm not (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:40:06 PM EST
    the one whining. I'm talking about the Obama campaign whining. Reading comprehension is your friend.

    Parent
    whining about whining (none / 0) (#184)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:50:00 PM EST
    is still whining.

    Parent
    It should read (none / 0) (#125)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:56:24 AM EST
    It also appears she peaked later, 3 months prior to the Ohio primary day

    Parent
    She peaked (none / 0) (#145)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:40:30 AM EST
    at 2 points higher is what you're saying? That's really sad. And more than anything that kind of statement really supports her resillence if she was able to come back in Ohio after losing in February.

    Parent
    ok, let's say it (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:55:28 AM EST
    There was a shift in her African American base. It moved to another candidate. They loved her but they loved another guy more. Very understandable. That shift cost her the nomination. Pols saw the direction of the wind and defected. But even then, she came close, real close.

    Parent
    Well, you sure have (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by Towanda on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:23:51 PM EST
    refreshed my recollection that the Democratic Party changed its rules, late in the game, for the guy -- so that my primary vote was not even counted at the convention.

    A party that changes its rules for the guy and that does not conduct a complete roll call -- and more, so much more that I saw -- made me an Independent.

    Thanks for the memories!

    Parent

    I'll take it in when I can (none / 0) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:56:37 AM EST
    I refuse to lose my mind over it.  I'll watch the coverage in the morning over coffee.

    Parent
    And (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:10:52 PM EST
    could we please stop making a big deal about Obama not "endorsing" her.  She entered the race yesterday.  He will endorse her.  Trust me.

    It would be inappropriate (5.00 / 5) (#156)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:25:50 PM EST
    And wholly unfair, for the de facto leader of the Democratic Party, i.e. the President, to endorse any candidate until there is an actual nominee.  

    Parent
    Agreed, and (none / 0) (#200)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:23:51 PM EST
    with his own vice president, apparently, still mulling over a possible entry into the primaries, it would be inappropriate to endorse.

    Parent
    Ha (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 04:27:36 PM EST
    i did the same thing.

    WTF? They are making me look at ANOTHER commercial?  I went to the Hillary site.  And watched the commercial.

    That said (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 04:29:09 PM EST
    i think people will identify.  I must say I sort of did.

    Parent
    People sure will remember it (none / 0) (#48)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:18:49 PM EST
    Per Yahoo news: Many already have. The announcement on Clinton's official Facebook page generated more than 35,000 likes and 20,000 shares within two hours of posting. And the Facebook version of the announcement video was viewed more than 600,000 times.

    On Twitter, Clinton's tweets announcing her candidacy generated more than 3 million views within an hour

    Parent

    Jeralyn, I too am uneasy w/the emphasis on (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:09:25 PM EST
    helping the middle class. It seems to me other people need more help from our Chief Executive than the middle class does. (Haven't seen the video yet. Listening to the ever-interesting British tenor, Ian Bostridge, at UC Berkeley.)

    Why uneasy? (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by FlJoe on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:24:21 PM EST
    The middle class is the engine of our economy. An American middle class that is healthy, wealthy and wise is the key to our future.

    Parent
    The engine of the economy (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:29:54 PM EST
    And the heart and sole of the country that has been consistently screwed for decades.  To the point that it is disappearing in the chasm between rich and poor.  Why should anyone care about them?

    Parent
    I would concur. (none / 0) (#30)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 07:25:15 PM EST
    Reminds me of another slogan- "Putting people first." A vibrant middle class is essential to a healthy country.

    FWIW Vox has interesting take on the video.

    Parent

    That was good (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 07:38:36 PM EST
    LNK

    VOX has been very good lately.

    Hillary Clinton's video announcing her run for president in 2016 is a fascinating piece of filmmaking, and it does something I haven't seen a political campaign ad do in quite this way.
    ---
    How campaign trailers usually work

    The "presidential campaign trailer" is a relatively recent phenomenon. All you need to do to see this is to look back at Clinton's announcement video from the 2008 campaign, which is shockingly bad. (The camera keeps shifting back and forth, like it's been placed on the base of a rotating fan.)



    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:27:20 PM EST
    the thing is usually what helps the middle class also helps people living in poverty and frankly a lot of people you probably would consider "poor" consider themselves "middle class".

    Parent
    I have to say I have never heard of an ad being (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 07:05:03 PM EST
    criticized because it appeals too much to the middle class. Especially not a Dem ad.

    This is truly going to be an interesting campaign.

    Parent

    I realize people whose status is below (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 07:50:31 PM EST
    "middle class" are not the subject of GOP concern. But I think they used to be a concern of the Democratic party.

    Parent
    I guess I missed the 'screw the poor' (5.00 / 5) (#33)
    by ruffian on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 08:01:28 PM EST
    part of the message.

    Parent
    Sin of omission. (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 08:38:57 PM EST
    Or an assumption (none / 0) (#36)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 08:44:12 PM EST
    that the problem of poverty won't be addressed by this campaign, based on the opening video.

    Parent
    And you think they're not, based on (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Anne on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 08:58:27 PM EST
    one video?  

    Considering that most people were probably expecting an old(er)-school form of announcement, I don't understand why people are complaining that the announcement video wasn't comprehensive enough - as if there aren't months and months in which to cover every little last thing.

    If Hillary intends to deliver the kind of message we've heard from Elizabeth Warren, I'm pretty sure you'll be seeing and hearing plenty of Tales of the Downtrodden - and also sure those tales are going to come with plans and solutions for more happily-ever-afters.

    If she delivers a message of fighting for Goldman Sachs, then I think you'll have something to complain about; now, not so much.

    Parent

    As I stated, I haven't watched (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 09:18:05 PM EST
    the video yet. I was reacting to J's post.

    I will say it is terrific you are defending HRC!

    Parent

    Until you do so (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 07:21:49 AM EST
    you really have no basis for making a judgement about it in the first place.

    Parent
    I wouldn't read too much into my (none / 0) (#70)
    by Anne on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 06:21:30 AM EST
    expression of approval for the announcement video; I'm really not defending her so much as the product she put out there to make it official.

    It remains to be seen whether, over the course of the next year or so, she shows me that this is more than just lip service.  Not to mention that there's foreign policy and privacy rights to be discussed - and I'm honestly not expecting to see her move away from where she's been on those - and that's a problem for me.

    We'll see how it goes.

    Parent

    Of all things, I listened to Schoenburg (none / 0) (#13)
    by christinep on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 06:16:03 PM EST
    to relax.  But, the second half of today's Colorado Symphony performance was a mite more soothing (and trance-like) with Natasha Paremski & Brahm's 1st Piano Concerto.

    Parent
    What's the definition of the middle class (none / 0) (#61)
    by Green26 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 10:52:15 PM EST
    that Hillary wants to help, or that most/some Democrats wants Hillary to help?

    There seem to be multiple definitions.

    Parent

    So no one wants to take a shot (none / 0) (#97)
    by Green26 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:31:10 AM EST
    at defining what middle class or everyday people are? Other than making the statement, what will or should Clinton say she will do to help them get more opportunity and to improve the middle class?

    Parent
    I think the intention (none / 0) (#100)
    by CST on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:40:53 AM EST
    as a politician is to keep it as vague as possible so that everyone thinks that they are part of the middle class group that Hillary wants to help.

    And thus cast as wide a net as possible.

    Parent

    There will be plenty of time ... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 07:04:03 PM EST
    ... for "pizazz," given that the election is still 20 months off.

    I run for Pizza.. (none / 0) (#58)
    by Nankumota on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 10:36:28 PM EST
    I am also waiting for the Pizza reward when some brand will come up and offer a pizza for running  for some one, or atleast some discount coupons for pizza hut crictime. Nothing is impossible in this world.

    Parent
    Site Violator! (none / 0) (#60)
    by caseyOR on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 10:49:59 PM EST
    For Ga6 on Hilllary email issue (none / 0) (#65)
    by Green26 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 at 11:29:01 PM EST
    "Fifty-three percent of Americans and 60 percent of independents said they believed that Mrs. Clinton had not been truthful in saying she handed over all emails relevant to her time as secretary of state, according to a Bloomberg Politics poll conducted April 6-8."

    NY Times.

    In the Favorable/Unfavorable category, Hillary is 48/44. George Bush is 46/46. Bill Clinton is 60/32.

    And Romney will beat Obama, for sure (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:00:37 AM EST
    Conservatives can sure be cocky...

    Parent
    Note that this is the NY Times and (none / 0) (#67)
    by Green26 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 02:47:04 AM EST
    Bloomberg Politics, not "conservatives".

    Parent
    Tell me one election in the past 100 years (none / 0) (#74)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 07:25:18 AM EST
    where the results were in response to something that happened to the candidate more a year and a half before the Presidential election.

    Then you might have a point, Stanford guy.

    Parent

    Gary Hart (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:49:26 AM EST
     and Risky Business"

    Parent
    That eliminated him as a candidate (none / 0) (#92)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:16:13 AM EST
    not quite the same thing as being the reason Reagan won re-election in 1984.

    You input is appreciated. 👽

    Parent

    It was 1988 (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:25:28 AM EST
    and. sure, Hart might have lost the nomination for other reasons and might not have beat BUSH if he was the nominee. No one can prove or disprove a negative. By the same logic no one can tell now how things occurring now will affect the future, beyond recognizing they are significant.

      But, if you want to sound credible in claiming the elimination of the frontrunner in April of the year preceding the election was inconsequential, you should at least know which election is involved.

    Parent

    He wasn't on the (none / 0) (#101)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:45:05 AM EST
    1988 ballot, so your comparison makes no sense.

    Thanks for catching my mistake, even as I point out your own greater misstep in this area.

    Parent

    I have no idea (none / 0) (#102)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:46:15 AM EST
     what you are trying to say.

    Parent
    Sorry, but Gary Hart and Donna Rice (none / 0) (#109)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:59:34 AM EST
    aren't even in the same league as the e-mail flap.

    Thanks for playing.

    Parent

    I assume you have been up for days (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:21:07 AM EST
     and can no longer even follow your own train of thought. You asked for an example where something that happened a year and a half before the election mattered. I don't recall qualifiers that the  "somethings" were very similar.

      Take a nap. It likely won't transform you into someone capable of intelligent discussion, but it can't hurt.

    Parent

    And, I may point out (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by NYShooter on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:45:54 AM EST
    something I stated to you the other day as to why I rarely comment on this board any more; intelligent, respectful, productive conversation has been supplanted too often by knee-jerk, anti-social snark.

    I've been here long enough to acknowledge that this sort of blog stuffing nonsense has always gone on, but the degree, and trajectory, taking place now is truly sad.

    IMO, of course.

    Parent

    I can do both. (none / 0) (#152)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:18:36 PM EST
      I will assert, I don't get snarky  until provoked. But, yeah, once provoked I will retaliate.

     Not my most endearing trait, to be sure, but I'm nor running for election here.

    Parent

    Recon, it may be than just a nap. (none / 0) (#117)
    by Green26 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:38:45 AM EST
    It may be the Harvard of the West schooling that so far has gone undisclosed. I have previously commented that some of posts are hard to read and understand.

    Parent
    Weren't they speaking of the (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by fishcamp on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:39:49 AM EST
    Harvard of the midwest?  We all know Oregon with their fighting Ducks, is the Harvard of the West.

    Parent
    Correct, Fishcamp (none / 0) (#147)
    by Green26 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:49:24 AM EST
    Harvard of Midwest. My mistake.

    Parent
    Dwight Eisenhower (none / 0) (#75)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 07:42:28 AM EST
    That whole D-Day / Supreme Allied Commander gig and basically saving the world (name recognition / military experience) was a major factor in getting him elected over Stevenson.

    Parent
    That's not the point (none / 0) (#82)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:30:45 AM EST
    but thanks for playing.

    Parent
    Of course it is the point (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:43:49 AM EST
    Ike had something that Hillary doesn't have.

    He had done things.

    He had won.

    He had credibility.

    BTW - I wonder when Hillary will talk about her success as SecofState??? ;-)

    Parent

    Thanks (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:52:35 AM EST
    for playing Jim. The RNC has been trying to tamp down on the sexism but I knew that you and your fellow travelers wouldn't be able to stop.

    Of course being SOS, Senator from NY and First Lady are zero qualifications from a woman. If it were a man nobody would be questioning those kinds of things and he would bee seen as infinitely qualified. It seems in 2016 there's not going to be just one Todd Akin. There's going to be millions of them.

    Parent

    The Atlantic (5.00 / 4) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:57:38 AM EST

    Soak that in: The No. 1 concern Americans have about an administration run by former First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is that she is not qualified. This despite the fact that her resume would make her easily the best-qualified Oval Office holder on paper since George H.W. Bush. And before Bush, it's a long way back to anyone else on par: Nixon, perhaps? Eisenhower, though he had little domestic experience? FDR?


    Parent
    I wonder (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:17:14 AM EST
    if the number that thinks she's not qualified is around 40% the same as the GOP base?

    Parent
    I don't agree with the criticism (none / 0) (#112)
    by Green26 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:03:43 AM EST
    of Hillary regarding not be qualified. For me, that is her strength. She is experienced, qualified, competent, determined, battle-tested to a significant extent, and smart. And she has Bill behind her for any consultation she wants to do. She also has a number of negatives, including that she is polarizing. For me, being qualified, experienced and competent is more important than views on issues, although views are, of course, important too.

    My biggest gripe with Obama as a candidate and president was that I never viewed him as having the experience, qualifications or competence to be president. I have never had confidence in him. , and his staff/advisors are now, I'm told, the worst in modern history. Hillary would have been a much better president, in my view.

    Parent

    "polarizing"??? (none / 0) (#130)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:07:38 AM EST
    Not really a chicken-or-egg question, but: Is a presidential candidate--namely, Hillary Clinton--because the person is polarizing or because we as a society these days tend to/are polarized!?!  Democrats, by a very wide margin, like & respect Hillary Clinton ... while Repubs, by an almost equally wide margin, have negative reactions toward her.  Now, why do you think that is?

    Seriously ... given the polarized state of the nation, politically, it really does make sense for discussants to lay their cards on the table early on ... and, then, it might actually be possible to make progress now & then on a particular issue.  Note: By "make progress," I mean that people starting from different positions may be able to reach resolution--from time to time--one issue at a time.  Along those lines: Who is your preferred Repub candidate? Do you believe that Rubio could be a compromise selection if J. Bush falters?

    Two BTWs: (1) I ask the preference question so that we all may discuss politics rather than the usual passing-the-time jabs and jousts.  I ask the disclosure question to open the agenda.  Play or Pass?  Reconstructionist? Jim?  (2) Recall that HRC has a Senate history of "working across the aisle" to accomplish what is needed ... and, her work ethic has been positively commented on, earlier, by her then-colleague John McCain.  Similarly, the liberal lion, the late Senator Ted Kennedy had the same pragmatic reputation.  If we want to--if you want to--we can get off this "polarizing" posture eventually.

    Parent

    Polarizing (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:10:46 AM EST
    is one of those Luntz approved words that the GOP is supposed to use. If you haven't noticed they have said Bill was polarizing and Obama. It's just the word they use against any Dem. Whatever. Even Luntz admits that kind of BS doesn't work on most voters. The truth is the GOP is the most polarizing operation there is out there these days with their culture war rhetoric but they'll always accuse someone else of being what they are. It's just how they operate. Tiresome.

    Parent
    GA, what we need (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:59:06 PM EST
    is a true uniter, like Scott Walker. Not a polarizer or a divider, him.  Just forget about that recall among citizens of his own state just into his first term, and the polarization vis a via the 100,000 citizens camping out in his state capitol.

    Now, that's a style that gets things done by consensus and persuasion.   And, that experience equipped him, he claims,  to deal with ISIS--a claim befitting pasquinade: Wisconsin teachers and state workers protesting cuts in retirement and salary equated to murderous Sunni terrorists.  

    Parent

    He makes (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:07:22 PM EST
    me laugh. I think we should take him up on his offer and take him to Ft. Bragg where the 82nd Air Borne is stationed, hook him up with a parachute, fly over the middle east and push him out the airplane right over ISIS since he says he can do it all by himself.

    Parent
    Honestly "polarizing" (none / 0) (#180)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:37:28 PM EST
    is is silliest of the lame lazy knee jerk criticisms.  As if Obama was not.  As if Bill Clinton was not.

    As if, for fvcks sake, ANY democratic president would not be "polarizing"

    Gonna be a long 18 months.

    Parent

    And the p-word is always used as (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:06:07 PM EST
    "she's so polarizing", as if she is the one trying to divide people. In reality the GOP decided to use her as a one-woman wedge issue, and then as the cherry on top, called her the polarizing one. It is the jujitsu they are so good at, and the press just adopts it hook line and sinker. Heard it on NPR just this morning.

    Gonna be a looong 18 months.

    Parent

    Still (none / 0) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:16:29 PM EST
    i have never heard Carly Fiornia referred to as "polarizing"

    Ha

    In fact I just googled "Carly Fiorina polarizing"

    Mika Brzezinski vs. Carly Fiorina: "Are You Really The Right Person ...
    3 hours ago - CARLY FIORINA: She really doesn't. Yes, she's had a ... Iowa CBS Affiliate: Hillary Clinton Is "Among The Most Polarizing Politicans In History".


    Parent
    The good (none / 0) (#194)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:16:44 PM EST
    news is all that has lost its effectiveness. Polarizing? Yawn. Can't they even come up with some new words? I guess they are going to continue to use the same old shopworn and dated phrases.

    Parent
    Ha (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:19:25 PM EST
    an ironic advantage

    There's nothing they have not already called her so many times the words are powerless.

    Parent

    Secretary of State, (none / 0) (#88)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:57:41 AM EST
    Senator from New York,  interesting that you don't think much of these accomplishments............

    Parent
    It was YOUR question (none / 0) (#90)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:08:03 AM EST
    If you want to be snarky, but don't want to get called on it, learn how to ask better questions.

    Parent
    Eisenhowers service and being the (none / 0) (#91)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:14:39 AM EST
    President of a college occurred long before March of 1951, so your response was idiotic in the extreme, as usual.

    Parent
    Your question (none / 0) (#96)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:27:00 AM EST
    Tell me one election in the past 100 years (none / 0) (#74)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 07:25:18 AM EST

    where the results were in response to something that happened to the candidate more a year and a half before the Presidential

    Please show us where something that happened "long before" appears in your question as a disqualified, so please just stop with the childish insults since it is you who was hoisted on their own petard.  Admit you screwed up, and move on instead of once again, defying Jeralyn's rules.

    Hillary Clinton will be judged by EVERYTHING she has done - whether it was "long before" she decided to run or the week before Election Day. As it should be - what else will you base your decision on?  Her haircut? To say something like "Name a candidate in the last 100 years...." is foolish because they ALL were judged on past behaviors.

    Parent

    If you think the e-mail "controversy" (none / 0) (#103)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:47:16 AM EST
    will matter next year, that's your opinion, but your example isn't what I was talking about.

    Thanks for playing.

    Parent

    jb said nothing about the email (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by sj on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:38:20 AM EST
    ... controversy. She factually answered the question you asked. Don't get huffy just because she is right.

    If you want to play a game you should be more careful about your own moves.

    Parent

    Chris Christie was knocked down several (none / 0) (#98)
    by Green26 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:34:53 AM EST
    notches with the bridge closure scandal, and I don't think he will ever fully recover. Might not even recover enough to make a credible go of it in the campaign.

    Parent
    Bridgegate (none / 0) (#105)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:49:39 AM EST
    isn't of the same magnitude of the Hillary e-mail so-called scandal. Thanks again for playing!

    Parent
    The gloom (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:53:00 AM EST
    and doom emanating from the GOP is hyserical. But when all you have to offer the public is gloom and doom I guess that is what you go with.

    Parent
    Baa waa waa (none / 0) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 06:02:37 AM EST
    she's had those numbers before and bounced back.

    We all know that conservatives are going to scream that every little bump in the road is her Waterloo. It's the end I tell ya the end. Baa waa waa.

    Look at the Pew poll and the declining GOP base. Crank up the culture war yes that will run off voters more than anything.

    So far the behavior of the GOP is driving voters away.

    Parent

    On the e-mails (none / 0) (#162)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 01:03:39 PM EST
    I know what the polls say but Americans and Independents include Republicans that have an issue and don't want to let go. My friends and I have discussed this issue and pretty much all agree it was the smart thing for her to do. She had handed over 50ks worth all ready. It was never going to be enough until they could start reporting that she called someone a fat ass jerk or worse. Take Sony for example. Cost her the job. Believe me, I would not want my emails or phone calls reported. At the same time, I am not running for President. Heh. But there was surely an expectation of privacy on her private line. We all just smile and say, "Good for you".

    Parent
    CNN was discussing the announcement today (none / 0) (#76)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 07:52:33 AM EST
    Alongside the SNL skit, and the fact that Bill was left out of the video announcement  Republican strategist Ana Navarro went on and on discussing how great Bill Clinton, no matter where goes he can't stop out shining everyone around him so they will have to keep Bill away from Hill or everyone will notice that she's sucky.  Amazing how Awwwwwwesome Bill Clinton is with Republicans this morning, he is the shizzle.  What a bunch of whores :)

    The GOP (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 07:56:04 AM EST
    makes me laugh. First Bill was the anti-christ. Now he's the most popular politician in America. What are they going to do when Bill does show up later on in the campaign? And in 2008 the GOP was criticizing him for being on the campaign trail.

    Why anybody in America listens to anything these jokers have to say is beyond me. They should stick with making Viagara commericals with Bob Dole and Jeb!

    Parent

    Couldn't agree more (none / 0) (#78)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:04:55 AM EST
    Such a stark 180 though.  Hatred of Bill Clinton was a mile deep and a mile wide in the minds of Republicans yesterday morning, the lists of his flaws and faults longer than their arms, the sound of his voices kills house plants and makes babies cry.

    Parent
    The fact that he is being discussed (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:13:27 AM EST
    it terms of why he was not in the announcement reeks of a sexist double standard.  Apart from the fact that no man would necessarily be expected to include their wife in such a thing I don't remember W having his dad on stage and I don't remember Jeb father or brother being missed in his first video.

    Were they in it?  

    Parent

    Or was that the creepy "rise" part (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:17:30 AM EST
    i haven't seen it.

    Parent
    The GOP (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:50:00 AM EST
    can't help it with the sexism. They just can't. They keep trying to tamp down on it but it's so much a part of their DNA that it just keeps rising up to the top.

    As far as the media, I read an article a while back that said they understand racism but have no clue about sexism.

    Parent

    They hired someone to coach them (none / 0) (#127)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:00:31 AM EST
    on how to be 'sensitive' aka not sexist! lol!~

    You would think they had never had to work with women before . . .

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#128)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:02:46 AM EST
    I heard that they had coaches doing that but apparently said coaches were a miserable failure or either the GOP is unable to learn.

    Parent
    The look on my mother's face was kind cute (none / 0) (#132)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:11:15 AM EST
    when I told her that, lol!~ And then I mentioned the talk about how she had been around for "so long" and 'expiration date" as the new way to call her an old hag . . .


    Parent
    Btw (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 08:16:06 AM EST
    i already fvcking hate that stupid SNL skit.  It wasn't funny but it's getting more play than that brain dead long past its expiration date show has gotten in at least 4 years.  So expect at least one screaming toothy Hillary a week for the foreseeable future.

    Parent
    Caricatures (none / 0) (#89)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:05:31 AM EST
     are based on amplifying traits for comic effect. The ones that resonate are the ones that amplify traits the audience is predisposed to recognize.

       SNL has never struck me as a GOP leaning institution. I doubt the  intent is to undermine Clinton so much as it is to appeal to its audience and make them laugh.

    Parent

    i don't place any of this on SNL (none / 0) (#94)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:25:25 AM EST
    It would be nice if someone could take the time to explain amplified and created comedic juxtapose, comedic anticipation, and the application of caricature to Ana Navarro.

    Parent
    I thought the SNL skit was very funny (none / 0) (#99)
    by Green26 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 09:38:46 AM EST
    but it was certainly hard-hitting and biting, and went after both Clintons. Compare to the Palin skit. That was already very funny and biting. I think it had a big impact on defining her for the public.

    Parent
    It was comedy (none / 0) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:01:24 AM EST
    We all laughed.  Biting how?  Hard hitting how?  It was comedy, not a documentary.

    Parent
    She'd (none / 0) (#111)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:02:50 AM EST
    probably laugh at it herself.

    Parent
    I died when Bill shows up with his sax (none / 0) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:21:50 AM EST
    Why? Flashback to how impressed some were with that, some felt it humanized him, some swooned at the jazz of it, and some individuals became fire breathing dragons over it.  It spoofed right into Bill trying to steal Hillary's campaign limelight.  But the ending premise has no basis in reality.  Bill Clinton had limelight boundaries when his spouse ran for the Senate, and the Presidency, and when she was our SoS.

    SNL is good at comedy creation though...we all laughed.

    Parent

    Personally (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:06:42 AM EST
    i don't think SNL has been funny for at least 30 years.  

    Parent
    You're a tough crowd Captain (none / 0) (#134)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:14:04 AM EST
    Sometimes they hit and sometimes they miss.  I like that they attempt the feat of comedy as a group.  Perhaps that is why they can't be consistently hilarious though when compared to the Daily Show or the success of Colbert, more variables?

    Parent
    Back when I watched it (none / 0) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 12:19:57 PM EST
    they didn't miss.

    Parent
    That's a good observation (none / 0) (#113)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 10:10:04 AM EST
      I'd say, those are the 2 most "biting" SNL caricatures I have seen. Is the fact both are women a factor? I don't know but given the very long time it's been on the air and the large number of pols it has skewered, I can understand some thinking so.

      Going all the way back to Chevy Chase doing Ford, Ackroyd doing Carter, Hartman doing Reagan, Carvey doing Bush to more recently Ferrell doing W. and whoever it is who does Obama, it does seem the male caricaturists were more good natured. Palin's a blithering  idiot and Hillary's a shrewish megalomaniac does seem harsher than Ford is clumsy, Reagan is forgetful and disengaged and H.W. is effete and inarticulate Bill was a glutton with an eye for the ladies, etc.

    Parent

    The Repub game of "wedgies" won't work (none / 0) (#135)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 11:17:43 AM EST
    Just had (none / 0) (#177)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 03:09:22 PM EST
    my annual AC done and my repairman was talking about how he retired and then lost everything in 2008 and now has gone back to work. And the GOP thinks putting a Bush up for president is a great thing? Yeah, remind everybody of the collapse.

    Is his name Joe? (none / 0) (#192)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:11:45 PM EST
      I'm amused because when I remarked in a thread a couple of weeks ago about how no one I know is enthusiastic about Hillary, you were one of the people suggesting that was meaningless.

     Of course, I didn't even ask you then to commit to not using anecdotes.

      I have no problem with anecdotes, viewed in context, they can provide useful perspective. I do have a problem with your  lack of consistency and hypocritical behavior.

    Parent

    No one YOU know (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:31:00 PM EST
    Is enthusiastic.  But many, many people are. You should see my Facebook thread today.

    Also, maybe many of those people that you know aren't enthusiastic because a) this want a surprise announcement, b) the thought of 18 months of Hillary - hate and analysis about her clothes, her hair, her laugh, etc. is already tiring, and c) most people don't care as much about politics as people who read and comment on blogs.

    Parent

    An intervening thought, Reconstructionist (none / 0) (#197)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:19:51 PM EST
    A pattern? What I notice in your back-&-forth with Ga6th lately is a tendency from yourself to move toward the ad hominem ... rather quickly.  I'm not sure what that shows; I am sure that it does not suggest bona fides.

    Parent
    It's (none / 0) (#201)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:24:47 PM EST
    bitterness for whatever reason. Obama hasn't lived up to expectations so they are taking it out on Hillary.

    Parent
    I don't like him (none / 0) (#203)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:31:03 PM EST
     He's loudmouthed, belligerent, narrow minded and unintelligent. He annoys me on a regular basis with foolish, snide remarks to pretty much anything I write. He adds nothing to any discussion in which he is involved and mostly clutters threads with inanity.

      Other than that, he's a peach.

    Parent

    You trying to set up some (none / 0) (#198)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:20:54 PM EST
    gotcha games? Sure looks like it . . .

    Parent
    No his (none / 0) (#199)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:23:50 PM EST
    name was not Joe.

    Just incidental is all it is. However you can back up what I'm saying with polls. You could not back up what you were saying with polls.

    Man, you're bitter.

    Parent

    I wasn't suggesting (none / 0) (#204)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 04:43:19 PM EST
     no one in the world is enthusiastic and that the people I know are fully representative of the entire Democratic electorate. That's why anecdotes need to be kept in perspective.

       I do, however, know a lot of people from a broad range of backgrounds including many who are very active in party politics. The lack of enthusiasm is noteworthy and I mentioned it because many here seem to think we will witness a cakewalk to coronation over some schlub/nut from the other side. I think that belief is wrong and overestimating Hillary's appeal is dangerous.

      I also perceive some cognitive dissonance between the ideas that the Republicans are clown show lightweights with little hope of even making it close and the argument we should accede to Clinton because she is the most "electable."

      If we truly believe the Republican candidate will be "unelectable" why do we need to worry about people pointing out her many flaws or decide now that  despite such flaws she is by mandate the best possible candidate.

      Surely, we have other people who can beat a clown.

     

    If you're interested in logos (none / 0) (#205)
    by CoralGables on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 05:05:49 PM EST
    Rubio has reduced the country to the dotting of the "i" in his name.

    the 538 (none / 0) (#206)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 05:30:50 PM EST
     don't get me wrong, Im not hugely impressed with Silver. His punditry is basically on a par with those he disdains. Punditry be punditry.

      His number crunching is more impressive in terms of thoroughness of data collection and analysis than statistical genius. The repute he's earned for being close to actual results is overblown because the average informed person can call the vast majority of races well before election day just by reading the paper. That he is marginally above the norm in calling contested races would be more impressive if he could do it before anyone else. The idea that 49 out of 50 is awesome loses force when it's really 4 out of 5 and we realize relatively few do worse than 3 out of 5.

      But, with at lengthy caveat:

       the 538

     

    538 (none / 0) (#207)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 05:58:01 PM EST
    wow, he's really going out on a limb here-

    The truth is that a general election win by Clinton -- she's very likely to become the Democratic nominee -- is roughly a 50/50 proposition. And we're not likely to learn a lot over the rest of 2015 to change that. Here's why:

    I doubt anyone knew we are a divided country where 3 point win is a landslide.  I also take issue with his dismissal of the "blue wall" in the electoral college.  It's real.

    Life meets parody. (none / 0) (#208)
    by lentinel on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 06:04:24 PM EST
    I don't want to just talk about the present.
    I wqnt to talk about the future.
    Whatever we have in store, cannot be known.
    But given time it can be understood.
    The past was once the future.
    The future is, I should say, unknown.
    It is in fact, unknowable.
    So I'm asking you to meet me at the station
    And join me as we board a train bound for
    A place called... the future.
    We will be ready for that future, whatever.

    Speech delivered by Julia Louis Dreyfus in "Veep".

    Didn't mean to bark at you Recon (none / 0) (#209)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 13, 2015 at 06:08:28 PM EST
    i just find Silver extremely grating.  And personally think when you look up the term "overrated" you should find his picture.