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NYTimes takes stenography from GOP hit book

So now the NYTimes is openly in the business of doing steno for the GOP. Just awful:

The Times, The Washington Post and Fox News have exclusive agreements with the author to pursue the story lines found in the book ["Clinton Cash."

Who cares if the author writes for Breitbart and worked for George W Bush? It's hit piece on Hillary Clinton! Does anyone at these news organization care about ethics anymore?

And the awfulness is patent even in this prelude piece. Consider this:

“We will see a pattern of financial transactions involving the Clintons that occurred contemporaneous with favorable U.S. policy decisions benefiting those providing the funds,” Mr. Schweizer writes.

His examples include a free-trade agreement in Colombia that benefited a major foundation donor’s natural resource investments in the South American nation, development projects in the aftermath of the Haitian earthquake in 2010, and more than $1 million in payments to Mr. Clinton by a Canadian bank and major shareholder in the Keystone XL oil pipeline around the time the project was being debated in the State Department.

Leave aside the insane idea that Keystone originated with Clinton, think about the sheer nonsense on the Colombian free trade agreement. First, as a Senator, Clinton was AGAINST at the same time the Clinton Foundation was getting donations from the Canadian oil executive:

In a Wall Street Journal story from 2008, Giustra is described as a “friend and traveling companion” of former President Clinton who donated more than $130 million to Clinton’s philanthropies. [. . .] On the campaign trail in 2008, Hillary Clinton, along with then-Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, opposed the deal.

So when Giustra had already directed hundreds of millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation, she opposed the deal. It was only after she became Secretary of State that she felt beholden? Oh by the way, why would Obama change his mind because of donations to the Clinton Foundation?

But the New York Times, dutifully taking GOP stenography credulously reports this absurdity.

Here's the clincher from the story:

“Clinton Cash: The Untold Story of How and Why Foreign Governments and Businesses Helped Make Bill and Hillary Rich,” by Peter Schweizer — a 186-page investigation of donations made to the Clinton Foundation by foreign entities — is proving the most anticipated and feared book of a presidential cycle still in its infancy.

So the New York Times cuts a deal with a Republican hit man and NewsCorp and proudly trumpets its failed ethics. the ultimate irony is that this is unethical journalism ostensibly to cover alleged unethical behavior. What it is of course is a disgrace.

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    The NYT recently announced it would (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:07:54 AM EST
    be publishibg "sponsored" articles. This "article" is not labelled "sponsored."  

    Thank you, BTD, for writing about this.

    I wonder if the NYT will also enter into contracts with writers of books disparaging the multitude of GOP contenders.

    Why should they? (none / 0) (#40)
    by NYShooter on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 07:07:43 PM EST
    Didn't you read where Peter Schweizer writes as a "neutral observer?"

    Surely, his prior books give no hint of biased writing. All you need do is read his, "Do as I say, Profiles of Liberal Hypocrisy," and any doubt you might have as to even handiness will be put to rest.

    Parent

    Books like Peter Schweizer's (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:44:56 AM EST
    are to be expected.  What should not be expected is their promulgation by the NYT (Fox is a given, as is, WaPo).  However, the NYT has apparently shown its dedication to the facts with a quick correction to an earlier draft of "Hoover Institution" from the incorrect "Hoover Institute."  Guess that is assure the reader of fairness.

    Schweitzer, who "speaks in the voice of a neutral journalist," seems to have undermined his proved pattern of Mr. Clinton's speeches over $500,000 by reporting that 15 percent of them occurred before Mrs. Clinton was SOS.  

    It is revelatory, too,  that Marco Rubio (the world's oldest young man or youngest old man) and Rand Paul (who alternates between being the warden and inmate of the asylum)  have been "briefed" on this unvarnished polemic. They do, after all,  need something other than Poland Springs or a woman reporter to snap at, to keep them going.

    The bit about the author (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 11:47:20 AM EST
    who speaks in the voice of a neutral journalist is mystifying and maddening.  Is he?  No, according to Ms. Chozick's description of his resume. But then again, her "coverage" of HRC is very quick to highlight the negative.

    Parent
    The Press is anti-Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 11:50:45 AM EST
    It looks like the anti-Hillary attitude of the press will backfire, however....

    Hillary does well to run her campaign without trying to please the press.

    Not only can you not please the press, (none / 0) (#174)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 10:54:18 AM EST
    they have no incentive to be pleased.  That's why each campaign is pretended equal credibility.  Few candidates are pilloried for lying or misinformation.  

    Why?  Because of the advertising revenues.  If you knock a candidate out of the race his ads go away and his opposite spends less as well.  Media needs the biennial and quadrennial campaign billions.

    There is as little incentive for a candidate to be truthful as there is for a journalist to seriously question a candidate's truthfulness.

    The journos know this, and more to the point, so do their publishers.

    Parent

    Oh, good lord (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 02:33:33 PM EST
    You should google this author. He's a big time conspiracy theorist. The NYT is foolish to get into an agreement with this nut. They are going to end up having major egg on their face.

    Scrambled or easy over? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 03:25:31 PM EST
    ;-D

    Parent
    Rachel Maddow agrees with Armando (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:19:51 PM EST
    Just watched the segment on her show showing the background of the propagandist, and voicing surprise that the NY Times is involved in this stuff....

    BTD is right about 1 thing. (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 10:04:25 AM EST
     The issues surrounding the Clinton Foundation and its subsidiaries are not new. There has been a decent amount written in a broad range of publications over the years. That doesn't mean these issues have received the scrutiny they will (and should) receive now.

      Denial, deflection, discrediting and all the "circle the wagons" tactics will work fine with the people committed to Hillary come hell or high water. It very much remains to be seen whether they will work with those not so committed, and it is worth noting that the inalterably committed will not constitute a majority. It's very unlikely too that most people will find plausible that every person or entity that has or will write about these issues is a partisan hack. Some limited background:

     NYT 2008

    TNR 2013

      WSJ 2/15

    New Yorker 2/15

    NPQ 4/15

    CSM 4/15  

    Vox, today

    Oh, the (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 10:08:53 AM EST
    4 D's of the GOP talking points so that any defense or using logic will try to be undercut by the GOP.

    Are you aware there was an audit done when Hillary because SOS?

    You're trying to write the rules of the discussion I see.

    Parent

    Really? (none / 0) (#70)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 11:20:41 AM EST
      State Dept. did not review donations to Clinton foundation

      State apparently only reviewed bill's requests to take huge speaker's fees from overseas and to engage on business deals. There appears to have been a tendency toward approval.

    Parent

    here (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 11:24:22 AM EST
    ya go:

    audited statement

    There is an audited statement. Judge for yourself. The state department is not in the business of auditing statements silly.

    Parent

    That's just a routine (none / 0) (#73)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 11:50:07 AM EST
      independent audit. It has nothing to do with reviewing the Foundation's activities for conflict of interest between the Foundation's or Clinton's personal financial activities and the duties of a high ranking government official.

      Obviously, the audit would not provide information as to whether a donor expected to or did benefit from more than goodwill by donating to an entity controlled by the Clintons.

     

    Parent

    Are you (none / 0) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:09:31 PM EST
    aware that they took no donations from foreign countries during Hillary's term as SOS? Apparently not from what you are saying.

    The SOS office is not in the business of doing audits.

    And frankly there are a number of GOP candidates who are being funded by only one person. So that's okay I guess?

    Look there's no proof that anything was done. It's all about creating "smoke" just like the eghazi garbage which the GOP seems to have given up on for now. Conspiracy theorists are going to believe that no one gives money without strings attached and the basic premise that the Clintons got rich off of their foundation is completely dispelled in the financial reports showing how much Bill is actually paid from the foundation.

    The GOP is in really bad shape. They are going to try to throw anything they can at her. They have nothing to lose.

    And if you buy into this theory you also have to believe Obama is their toady which I'm guessing you also believe that too.

    Parent

    No, (none / 0) (#79)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:23:04 PM EST
      I know for a fact that the foundation did accept contributions from foreign governments while she was SOS, including one that was in direct violation of the agreement between the government and the  Clintons.  Link

      I also do not believe that it is only donations directly from foreign governments that raise massive ethical questions. In fact, donations from individuals or corporations seeking either to curry favor with the Clintons, or more concerning still, to get an advantage in dealing with foreign governments by demonstrating ties to the Clintons, can be even more of a problem.

    Parent

    Curry favor with foreign governments (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:49:02 PM EST
    by donating to CGI?  What a stretch.  Actually makes no sense.

    See, the advantage to conspiracy theories is that you need no proof or logic, just the ability to go off on flights of fancy.  You can always say there is one more questions that needs answering.....

    Parent

    Dear GOP (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:33:09 PM EST
    there is only one that is a problem. There was an agreement made and that one was problem and the agreement was made in 2008. So only one qualifies as what you are saying. So you can yell quid pro quo all you want but unless you have any proof that it formed policy which you dont go full on with the conspiracies.

    But the GOP being funded by one individual is all right with you. Gotcha.

    And Obama was a clueless dupe in this evil scheme of the Clintons. Right? And the CGI controls the global economy. Right? LOL.

    You are reeking of desperation.

    Parent

    But all of them (none / 0) (#88)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:42:58 PM EST
     demonstrate the utter falsity of your misinformed assertion the Foundation did not accept foreign government donations while she was SOS.

      Which was, of course, the point. Again, you demonstrate the worst qualities of discourse here.

     

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:47:47 PM EST
    I forgot to add "that was a problem" to the sentence but carry on with your conspiracy theories.

    Parent
    And Obama just went along (none / 0) (#95)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:55:31 PM EST
    and facilitated the bribery scheme?

    This is a great theory for you guys--you get to indulge all your baseless, knee jerk hatred against both Clinton and Obama.  A twofer.

    Parent

    An audit will also not provide (none / 0) (#81)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:28:43 PM EST
    ... information about the Easter Bunny's location.

    Where is your actual evidence?

    Parent

    There (none / 0) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:49:15 PM EST
    is none. It's just that there had to be SOMETHING because it's Bill Clinton, you know.

    We've been there done that 1,000,000 times from the GOP. There's a reason no one listens to them anymore.

    Parent

    The GOP loves dead horses (none / 0) (#97)
    by nycstray on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:59:20 PM EST
    I didn't say it would. (none / 0) (#94)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:54:33 PM EST
     I was merely pointing out the foolishness of trying to claim the audit means no impropriety exists.

       As to evidence of impropriety,  that will be in the eye of the beholder. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that many here will claim anything less than proof positive  of criminal conduct means there is nothing of concern.

      Some might, though, think the standard for being President should be a bit higher. Personally, I don't think there needs to be a quid pro quo (even ones that don't make the conduct criminal) for activities to be improper.

       A family that is essentially dependent on the "kindness of strangers (who want to become friends)"  to give  7 and 8 figure donations and 6 and 7 figure speaking fees should be highly scrutinized when their other business is seeking elective office.

       

    Parent

    Whooooossshhhh .... (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:22:04 PM EST
    Yet you STILL cite no evidence of any wrongdoing, because you have none.

    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:58:45 PM EST
    Then do you think Obama should resign his office over these allegations? If they are so serious and somehow the CGI influenced Obama as this conspiracy theorist posits then you should be wanting him to be examined and out of office too.

    Parent
    That is exactly what they want (none / 0) (#99)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:02:34 PM EST
    This is a great conspiracy theory for them--they can falsely accuse both Obama and Hillary at the same time.....

    Give them some time, they will make up some reason why Obama is on it.  No need for facts, just accusations that "need answering."

    Parent

    some reason "Obama is in on it" (none / 0) (#100)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:03:10 PM EST
    Yes (none / 0) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:04:41 PM EST
    and when the answer comes in they will move the goal posts again and make up another conspiracy theory they want justified. No answer will be sufficient unless it justifies their conspiracy theory and unless it justifies their conspiracy theory it's a "lie".

    Good grief. It's to the point where this whole thing is becoming comedy.

    Parent

    No you conflate speaking fees with CGI (none / 0) (#98)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:59:41 PM EST
    Nice sideswipe.....

    The Clintons benefit financially from speaking fees.

    They do not benefit financially from CGI.

    There is a difference between the two.  

    The speaking fees are just making money.  So what?
    I assume that Hillary won't charge speaking fees when she is President.

    Parent

    Read the New Republic article I linked (none / 0) (#102)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:10:17 PM EST
     and you will see the conflation was often done by Bill's (former) right hand man at the Foundation. It sure seems access to Bill was often conditioned on obtaining speaking fees and Foundation donations from the same persons at the same time.

      Even many in the Foundation (and to her credit Chelsea when she cam on board) had concerns.

       It also seems rather disingenuous to suggest that payments from the recent past are of no moment as long as they refrain from taking them once in office.

       The fact that almost immediately upon Hillary leaving State, the Clinton Foundation resumed carte blanche foreign  fundraising, and only suspended it when she was ready to announce and that it enjoyed much success during the interregnum can be perceived by the cynical among us as part of a preconceived plan. Get while the getting is good, so to speak.

    Parent

    What you do not mention (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:24:32 PM EST
    is what CGI does:  help sick kids and the poor.  It used to be that Republicans were all about replacing government with private charities.

    To take a charity such as CGI and turn it into something nefarious is quite something. So what if CGI was fundraising?  Just how does that personally benefit the Clintons?

    I'll just say: "scoreboard, pal."  Trying to investigate the Clintons has never worked, not legally, not politically.  But knock yourself out.

    And, you will need more than statements of "it sure seems...."  Are you saying that Bill demanded speaking fees as a condition to CGI accepting a contribution?  That makes no sense.  Are you saying that Bill demanded that part of his speaking fees be donated to CGI?  Oh, that would be terrible, no?

    And, are you saying that Obama was in on it?  Good grief, how attenuated can you get?

    The theories here make no sense.....But you guys always say, "it sure looks bad."        

    Parent

    "Seems"? Heh (none / 0) (#155)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 10:21:18 PM EST
    Does it really?

    To you?

    Heh.

    Parent

    I feel sorry for the guy (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by NYShooter on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 12:05:15 AM EST
    Having spent some glorious time in my office, within the rarefied atmosphere of "Mahogany Row," the suite of offices occupied by the Senior Executives of a certain Dow 30 Company, it's amusing to observe Recon as he stands outside, nose pressed up against the smoked, triple plated, armor resistant glass walls, wistfully gazing at the power brokers inside.

    Yes, Recon, very accomplished, very rich & powerful people, do lead lives quite different from yours. But, much to your dismay, it seems, it's not illegal. Your poorly hidden jealousy, and your pathetic need to mock, and cast doubt & suspicion on those who have managed their lives in such a manner that their mere presence commands many thousands of dollars per minute from willing admirers is just a cross you'll have to learn to live with. Movie stars, rock stars, Silicon Valley Entrepreneurs, Palo Alto Venture Capitalists, all share that fortunate place in the sun where their time truly is money.

    Man up, wish them luck, congratulate them on their successes, thank them for their incredible generosity, and unparalleled philanthropy. Most of all, balance what the Clintons have done with their time through their foundation, having so greatly improved the lives of so many indigent people around the world, and saved the lives of countless thousands of once-hopeless sick people, from infants, pregnant women, to geriatric elders. But, shamefully, you've aligned yourself with muckrakers, failed souls, who slither through their days expounding the well-worn bromide, "no good deed goes unpunished."

    You want them brought down? Fine, that's your choice, and your right. So, go get the proof of their alleged corruption, file the appropriate charges, adjudicate the case in the courts, where it belongs. But, don't throw a hissy fit when they don't leap up and help you in this attempted slander.

    Maybe someday, eh?  

    Parent

    Wow!!! (none / 0) (#165)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 09:28:56 AM EST
      I'll give you credit for being honest which separates you from most of the swarming gnats here.

      You think this class warfare and you choose to side with the upperemost of the upper class. Fair enough, you should vote according to your convictions and I have no quarrel with anyone doing that.

      You inadvertently, though illustrate my point, perhaps better than I have done.

      I have different convictions than you have and believe when it is an indisputable fact that the family of a presidential candidate chooses not just to align with but become part of the 1% of the 1%, that those locked out of even the top 10% would be very wise to deeply and thoroughly scrutinize the interrelations of  between the candidate, her family and those "very accomplished, very rich & powerful people."

       I believe those relationships and the hows and whys of their formation should be of concern to everyone. I also believe it is not necessary for the relationships to have involved illegal conduct for their existence to be an important factor for people to consider in questioning whether someone is truly seeking to promote their interests or those of the very rich and powerful.

      But, that's  just me being motivated by class envy. I must be a bad person to prefer a candidate whom I believe is less beholden to my superiors.  

    Parent

    um, all Presidential Candidates come from the 1% (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 09:35:44 AM EST
    Unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by FlJoe on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 10:19:47 AM EST
    with the huge influence money has on modern politics anybody who wishes to run with must dance with the 0.1 % devils. It's ridiculous that many people get upset with charitable donations from the rich and powerful to the Clinton's foundation while shrugging off the huge amount flowing to candidates directly and through dark money donations. Of course anytime huge amounts of money are changing hands there should be questions, but most times charity is just charity while contributions of huge sums of money to get your preferred candidate election seems to point to the donors "expecting" something in return.

    Parent
    Who says anyone is (none / 0) (#171)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 10:44:03 AM EST
      "shrugging off" the huge amounts flowing into campaign coffers and "independent" PACs, etc.

       I'd agree that is a BIGGER problem because it is systemic rather than specific to a limited number of candidates. The belief that one thing is worse does not dictate the belief lesser problems are not highly important.

       At a certain point, you get the government you passively accept let alone the government you actively encourage by defending the big money when it flows to "your side."

       I'm not naïve (I'm no Donald, of course, when it comes to knowledge and brilliance, but few soar in that rarified air) but I believe there is no chance of reducing the influence of money and those who have tons of it until we actually try to do it. Does anyone really believe the best first step is sheepishly supporting, from the get go, the candidate whose history is marked by tremendous ability and willingness to raise huge sums from the super wealthy by any means not constituting a violation of the lax laws?

       It's actually possible that if large numbers of potential voters showed that they consider the money machine wizards to be suspect precisely because of that wizardry  other candidates would have a better chance. We'll never know if we don't try. What do we really have to lose even if a less wealthy, less well-funded challenger loses? If nothing else even limited success could be the  first riser on a staircase that will over time lead to someone winning who hasn't sold out to the rich before the game even began.

    Parent

    I (5.00 / 3) (#176)
    by FlJoe on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 11:19:05 AM EST
    guess that's my point. Why question charitable donations to CGI which, on paper at least, offer no direct benefit to the Clinton candidacy and only offer only "possible" quid-pro-quo expectations from the donors while ignoring the quite "probable" expectations from  direct political donations? In my book the NYT is doing a front story on the organ grinders monkey while ignoring King Kong climbing the Empire State building

    Parent
    I'm sure there will be plenty of stories (none / 0) (#177)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 11:38:51 AM EST
     from the NYT and many other publications that will report on the direct political donations to campaigns and the "independent" and "non-coordinated" spending to support candidates.

       It's also a fairly decent bet that the reports of Rich Guys X, Y and Z pumping tons of money to support Republican candidate Q will be unable to document "smoking gun" evidence of wrongdoing, quid pro quos, or commitments to favor the interests of X, Y and Z to the detriment of those who didn't provide big bucks

      Some of y'all geniuses should probably pause to consider how the arguments you are making now will be the exact same ones that XYZ and Q will make to defend their activities.

      If your arguments are valid defenses so will be their arguments.

       To do some serious metaphor mixing, birds of a feather flock together and you are flocking with the same people who will defend big Republican money; you also share those birds' hypocrisy and disingenuity because all any f the bids care about is whose ox is being gored.

    Parent

    Wrong (none / 0) (#178)
    by FlJoe on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 12:02:16 PM EST
    If I donate a million to CGI my expectations would be to help the third world poor and disadvantaged. Maybe get an extra big smile from Bill the next time I see him. If I donate a million to HRC's campaign I would hope to help her get elected with the expectations  she would pursue policies that I prefer. Two totally different organizations, with two totally different objectives.

    If you were looking for a "smoking gun" I think you would have better luck at the local MC hangout then at the local Rotary club even though there is no guarantee that the local Rotarians are totally legit.

    Parent

    Maybe that would be YOUR (none / 0) (#179)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 12:08:07 PM EST
     only expectation. Just because you would  be solely motivated by altruism does not mean that is true of everyone else. In fact, it seems rather unlikely that each and every donor is so selfless.

    Parent
    You (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by FlJoe on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 12:38:28 PM EST
    seem to be suggesting that a sizable amount of rich and powerful charitable donors are only in it to benefit themselves. It seems to me that there are many other more effective ways to use cold hard cash to advance an agenda.

    Parent
    Perhaps... (none / 0) (#181)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 12:40:18 PM EST
      but with enough money one can cover many bases including the relatively less effective. Less effective does not mean ineffective.

    Parent
    I provided this link already (none / 0) (#182)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 12:49:03 PM EST
      but I'm assuming few have chosen to read what they have preemptively decided is just anti-Clinton propaganda. The others are worth a read as well, if one really wants to do more than dismiss anything that does not provide glowing endorsements of the Clintons as "hack" jobs.

    After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton

    Parent

    We read it back in 2008 (none / 0) (#190)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 02:35:02 PM EST
    Giustra is a longtime Democratic activist and donor, as well as a philanthropist.  Yet another specious claim with absolutely no evidence of any wrongdoing.

    Yawn.

    Come back when you have some evidence of some kind of wrongdoing.

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#196)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 03:04:35 PM EST
      Are you arguing that the fact a person has a long history of donating large sums helps prove he is not doing it for personal benefit?

      I find that rather hard to swallow.

      Are you also suggesting that despite what the foreign officials involved state on the record in the article that Clinton tagging along for his business meeting was not of value to Guistra.

      Are you suggesting that the fact both Guistra and Clinton initially denied one of the meetings even took place until the Times reporter informed them that others had already confirmed the meeting and then both managed to improve their memories isn't suggestive.

       Or, are you suggesting that even if Clinton did a favor to help a donor close a big deal with a foreign entity that is not a matter of public interest when his wife is running for President (and was a U.S. Senator at the time)  ?

       As I have said repeatedly, I believe the standard needs to be higher than what was done isn't a crime for it to be very important for people to weigh in making judgments.

      If you disagree and think as long as something isn't a crime, anything goes, just say so.

     

    Parent

    The most vacuous tactic (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 04:18:59 PM EST
    ... to respond to an actual argument is to restate/misstate a statement in the form of a "question".  But since you're either using that tactic or have difficulty with reading comprehension, I'll spell it out in simple sentence for you:

    1.  Giustra is a philanthropist with a long history of donating to numerous philanthropic causes, of which the CGI is just one.

    2.  Giustra is a friend of Bill Clinton.

    3.  Clinton accompanied Giustra on his trip to Kazakhstan in September, 2005.

    4.  The President of the mining company clearly stated that while Giustra's relationship with Clinton made an impression, his company chose to form a partnership with Mr. Giustra's company based solely on the merits of its offer.

    5.  Giustra donated to the CGI.

    Now slow down and read carefully here so you don't get "confused" again, because this is the important part.

    1.  You have absolutely zero evidence that there was any form of quid pro quo in their relationship of in the donation to the CGI.  Giustra has a long history of making donations to many charitable organizations, including CGI.

    2.  You also have absolutely zero evidence that Bill Clinton did anything illegal by going with Giustra or by CGI accepting his donation.

    3.  You also have absolutely zero evidence that Bill Clinton did anything unethical by going with Giustra or by CGI accepting his donation.

    4.  You stated your assumption (you're full of those) that no one read you link because ... blah, blah, blah (insert Reconstructionist's latest straw argument).  People ignored it because these same silly claims have been circulated/investigated since 2006, with the very same lack of any evidence of wrongdoing of any type (illegal, unethical, immoral or fattening).

    5.  See above - same for Hillary Clinton.

    6.  Your desperation is beyond pathetic.  You have absolutely no evidence to back up your allegations, so you phrase them as "questions" and misstate the very clear statements of others.  Your real issue is you don't like the fact that the Clintons are now wealthy and you object to the way they made their money.  But you have no evidence they did anything wrong by any standard - other than violate your own (silly) personal code of conduct, so you claim to be asking "questions" that should be investigated, despite the fact that the same claims have been investigated many times for many years.

    In short, you're a CDSer with no facts and no evidence, so you just make $hit up.

    Was that clear enough for you?

    Parent

    You are correct (none / 0) (#184)
    by FlJoe on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 01:19:45 PM EST
    up to a point, it's just human nature. I would donate to my boss's favorite charity "hoping" to curry favor while "expecting" nothing. I suspect that same dynamic also plays out on a larger scale, maybe with some validity. After all it is always a good idea to be on the good side of the rich and powerful.  However without an actual quid-pro-quo agreement any benefit to the donor would fall into the "hope" category.

    If all influence peddling and purchasing flowed through charitable donations the world would surely be a much better place. Cheers.

    Parent

    I think there is a selfish... (none / 0) (#183)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 12:51:29 PM EST
    angle to all charitable giving...when I give a panhandler a dollar, one of the reasons is it gives me joy.  That's a selfish angle.  And I believe in karma...selfish angle.

    And that's just a dollar, never mind a million...though a million to some of these players is like less than a dollar to me.  

    And like I mentioned before, when my boss gives 5 grand to a customer's favorite charity there is a serious selfish angle.  He does it with the expectation of keeping that customer, and a tax write-off, ...they day they start buying brand x is the day that charity stops getting checks from him.

    What's the harm in acknowledging this?  

    Parent

    Hmmm ... Does that mean (none / 0) (#185)
    by christinep on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 01:47:45 PM EST
    that those concerned about the reality of money distribution in our society should not work in the campaign of one--such as Hillary--who has a certain level of $$$$ now and/or that one should abstain from voting for a Democrat like Hillary because she and her husband are wealthy? Are we talking purity here OR are we talking about tamping down the vote among those who may care about the reality of unequal distribution?

    Part of your argument, Reconstructionist, have a pull ... in terms of initial theory.  But, unless its purpose is classic wedge in the opposition party (Democrats here) in order to dampen enthusiasm and tamp down the vote ... unless there is some practical purpose to the lament, the problem is that this argument seems to be a version of they-are-all-the-same in that there is little if any differentiation between/among the secular "sin" to which you refer.  "Sins" in a religious or spiritual sense are not all the same ... e.g., mortal and venial have different levels of import and consequence. Likewise, there are levels of concern regarding secular wrongs as well--whether in a general ethical sense or in a criminal sense--and, those levels do and should have different consequences.  In the political sphere and in all life, we confront ethical questions frequently ... in the matter of how one amasses $$$$ and what is done with those $$$$, as an example.  

    What I do not see you confronting in a practical sense is how you prioritize from the most negative acquisition of $$$$ to the most positive ... nor even really acknowledging that there are differences in how we might perceive and treat $$$$ acquisition short of throwing up our hands and saying "it stinks."  IMO, throwing up one's hands and walking away saying something stinks is not a solution; nor is getting intellectually paralyzed by the world's realities a solution.  For me, the one who can deal with what is and prevail to make things better--in spite of sometimes getting roughed up and even a tad grimy in the process--is the real hero/heroine.  

    As for the available evidence about the force and effect of CGI--not the obsessive "there must be dirt, where is it" emotional conclusion--what I observe is that the Foundation, through distribution of its funds and resources, appears to improve the lives of many less fortunate in the world and appears to do so consistent with a non-profit entity.  That many people, from all walks and economic levels of life see fit to contribute because they admire the work of the Clintons is primarily a testament to the good will and important purpose to which they have chosen to put their emphasis.  

    OTOH, there are wealthy families in and around politics that seem to plough their $$$$$ into ends that seem to lack societal benefit.  That type of secular sin, in my estimation, is as different as night from day when compared to the Clintons efforts at charitable work.

    Parent

    Damn straight... (none / 0) (#186)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 02:02:08 PM EST
    those concerned with income inequality and the distribution of wealth should abstain from voting for Hillary Clinton, and any Republican for that matter.  Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein if she declares...those are your horses if that's your issue.

    Not because the Clintons are rich, but because of their record on economic issues, and their close ties to the Wall Street Mafia. FDR was rich, and he was a called a traitor to his class.  He welcomed the scorn of the 1%, while the Clintons panhandle from them.  

    Parent

    What is Hillary's actual Senate record (none / 0) (#192)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 02:50:51 PM EST
    on issues of income inequality and distribution of wealth?

    Parent
    Am I saying I reject (none / 0) (#187)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 02:07:49 PM EST
      "vote for the lesser evil" as a principle?

      No, in fact the huge majority of all votes I have ever cast fall into that category.

      I am saying that it's still early enough to possibly have one of the choices in the general election be either someone who could be supported on positive grounds or at least one who can claim a wide disparity of "relative evil" between him or her and the Republican.

       I am also saying I disapprove of the obvious pretense that Clinton both carries  negative baggage apparent to anyone with an open mind and is far from an ideal candidate from a liberal/progressive perspective. The argument it is not possible to do better does not persuade me.

       Does that mean I think she won't get the nomination  if a credible challenger runs? No, but I know she will get it if that doesn't happen.

       I also don't buy the premise she is the only Dem who can win. I find it perplexing that so many who mock, ridicule, etc. the Republican field seem very much to think that we should all support Clinton for the nomination despite the many warts because doing otherwise will lead to a Republican win. If the Republicans really are nothing but a "clown show" why can't we win with a different, better,  candidate?

       

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 02:18:17 PM EST
    if you truly believe that then will you quit shopping the stupid GOP conspiracy theories here and start talking up whoever you want. It's all gloom and doom and it's the end any day. I hate to tell you there's not going to be some magical candidate to show up any day on their white horse. You know who's running so far so find one to support. None of them are going to spout magical unicorns and fairies out of their butts either.

    You sound bitter, small and petty but I hate to tell you that the truth is all candidates have baggage and feet of clay. Just because you don't like Hillary doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people who actually do.

    And the condescending crap you spew is not going to win you any converts. You come across as smarmy and condescending as the tea party.

    Parent

    No (1.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 02:47:20 PM EST
      I will write anything I choose and I could not care less whether you approve. If what I write so upsets you and you see no value in it, I have a solution.

      Don't read it.

    As you never seem to understand what people write in any event if it goes deeper than, "my guy good, them bad" you don't have to worry about missing anything that would actually cause you to think.

      If you can't figure out which posts are mine despite my name being attached, then at least don't respond to your  posts and the squeal like a stuck pig when I reply back.

      I have come to question my own  judgment in responding to someone as foolish and incapable of rational discussion as you. I will henceforth ignore you because you waste everyone's time with your inanity.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 02:54:57 PM EST
    Puh - leeeeze.

    Ga6th runs circles around your inane, illogical and specious claims, and you should be the absolute last person to criticize someone for shallow thinking.

    BTW - Still waiting for a single citation to any law, regulation, ethics code or scout promise that was violated by any of this, but I guess we've finally clarified that the only violation you have any evidence to support is your own, personal ethical standards.  Or, in short, ...

    ... nothing.

    Parent

    It's Like Reading Jim... (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 03:49:39 PM EST
    ...before he went senile.

    My head hurts and read most of the responses a couple days ago.

    Parent

    Your sample size is now (1.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 03:35:04 PM EST
     sufficiently large for me to conclude that the possibility of you writing something that isn't stupid is also so low as to warrant being ignored.

    Parent
    Promise? (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 04:21:51 PM EST
    I guess if you can't respond with actual facts, evidence or logic, that's probably a good way to avoid looking like a clueless coward.

    Parent
    The point (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 02:55:04 PM EST
    is you aren't winning any converts. It doesn't upset me in the least. If you want to buy into every crackpot conspiracy theory out there from everybody looking to fleece you out of some of your money hey--go ahead. However Jeralyn is not too keen on people who constantly shop GOP conspiracy theories. Mostly you just hurt yourself with the nonsense you put out there. You're the one whining and squealing and all gloom and doom not me. Most of us here are frankly laughing at you. You sound a lot of Ted Cruz who we like to make fun of.

    Parent
    Recon (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 09:55:33 AM EST
    i do like you but let's be honest.  I would prefer a 6 figure retirement salary and to sleep on a bed of kittens who's box I did not have to smell or change.  Which is as likely as a presidential candidate from the not 1%.

    Privileged people sometimes do great thins for the unprivileged.  FDR.

    Parent

    Not all Presidents (none / 0) (#169)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 10:25:22 AM EST
      even in relatively recent times have been very rich. Heck, Bill Clinton was not rich in 1992 or even 2000, by Hillary's own account. Nor were Truman, Eisenhower were not rich. Depending upon where one draws the line Nixon, Carter and Obama were not rich and certainly not in the Clintons' current league. Johnson was born relatively poor and to the extent he was rich, he became that way by trading on his influence. Among failed Democratic nominees Humphrey, McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis were not rich. the general point being we do have choices beyond acceding to the belief only the rich can run successfully for the nomination or presidency.

      With the Clintons, it's the very fact that Bill, with Hillary's presumed blessing, chose to parlay his status into extreme wealth by hobnobbing and transacting with the super-rich that should be cause for scrutiny.

       Sure, wanting to be rich is not a "sin" (colloquial not religious meaning) nor is using one's status and perceived influence to get there. But, it does tell something about one's character and values. It's also not a sin to have  values that include the position trading on status to attain riches. Were the Clintons not heavily engaged in electoral politics their choices would be very much their private business and one's feelings about them of little moment.

       If, however, you choose to make money in that manner and continue a political career then them manner in which your wealth was accumulated should be fair game.

    Parent

    Soooo ridiculous (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 02:17:58 PM EST
    Sure, wanting to be rich is not a "sin" (colloquial not religious meaning) nor is using one's status and perceived influence to get there. But, it does tell something about one's character and values.

    Really?  Do tell?  Yet you don't even want to specify what it "tell's about one's character and values.


       If, however, you choose to make money in that manner and continue a political career then them manner in which your wealth was accumulated should be fair game.

    Sure - why not?  Let the silly haters hate.  OTOH - That has absolutely nothing to do with the complete lack of evidence to back up your CGI claims.

    Parent

    That was then (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 10:44:47 AM EST
    this is now. Sadly.

    Parent
    You know (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 10:51:18 AM EST
    you can't argue with people who are obsessed with personality politics.

    When Bill made $35K a year as govenor of AR he was "white trash unworthy to clean the toilets at the white house".

    Now they are "unworthy" because they are wealthy.

    Same sanctimonious condescending BS either way.

    Parent

    As near as I can tell, the political (none / 0) (#193)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 02:53:21 PM EST
    world, the campaign finance/PAC world, the financial sector, the lobby shops and PR firms, and a significant portion of the corporate world, are a veritable orgy of pay-for-play, quid pro quo, mutual back-scratching, ego-stroking and general masturb@tion that has largely turned its back on, and a deaf ear to, the average person who just wants to live a decent life.

    That there may be no small amount of this kind of thing going on at CGI would not shock me, but what does tick me off - or would tick me off - is the feeling I sometimes get that coming to the aid of the downtrodden hides the vast wealth and power that all these deals that have engendered large charitable contributions are securing for those behind them.  

    Which is not to say that there is anything illegal about any of what CGI is doing, but that also doesn't mean that this particular system isn't being to some extent gamed either.  

    But that is somewhat off the subject of the way the media is going about their approach to the CGI; as near as I can tell, they are simply dishing out speculation and rumor in lieu of doing any actual investigative journalism,and the net effect is people who are reading the NYT's Cliff Notes version of some alleged scandal are perceiving it as truth.

    But to give the morass of entangled interests across the spectrum of money and power the kind of thorough examination it should get is just too hard; so much easier to just take as fact what someone else with a documented agenda has cobbled together and never question either the truth of the facts asserted or the agenda itself.

    The state of journalism is...execrable.

    Parent

    Releasing Audited Financial Statements (none / 0) (#93)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:53:22 PM EST
    and Tax returns......Not everyone does that.  

    Will the Koch brothers release their financials?

    Okay, how did the Clintons benefit financially from the charities?   Without financially benefitting, you need a convoluted, illogical theory to support any kind of bribery theory.....

    Parent

    Don;t comment in my posts (1.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:54:37 PM EST
    Banned.

    You have (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:04:07 AM EST
    to suspend reality when reading that too if you look at the financial statements of the CGI which shows the salary Bill has taken from CGI.

    Also (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:04:50 AM EST
    remember the NYT has been in the business of doing stenography for the NYT for quite a while. Judith Miller anyone?

    Oh, well...haven't you heard? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 11:01:36 AM EST
    Judith has a new book out outlining how she did look around all corners, checked under all beds, shook the closets for skeletons and scouted nooks and hideaways thoroughly before she printed any of her Scooter Libby luncheon menus.  She DID preform textbook journalism...and the textbook investigative journalism all said invade Iraq.  She has suffered being unjustly singled out and is also a victim of unjust public scorn.

    Parent
    I saw her on Morning Joe (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 02:27:57 PM EST
    this morning getting very tough questions from W's former press secretary.

    Ya, journalists all.

    Parent

    David Sirota has also been tweeting (none / 0) (#4)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:41:21 AM EST
    about the Colombian free trade deal and writing with others in his IBT articles. At first read is seems like there could be some there there, but the more I read it the vaguer it gets.

    All trade deals are a just that -deals. Without inside information that is not provided in these articles, there is no way to know how easily stronger protection for labor rights were bargained away, or how hand-on Clinton was in doing any of it.

    The problem with the theory (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:55:48 AM EST
    is the idea that anyone but Obama decides these issues.

    Parent
    You have got to read this: (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by NYShooter on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 06:18:58 AM EST
    Major piece in Crooks & Liars

    "Swiftboat 2016: Why Buy The Ad When You Can Get The Press For Free?"

    Man, this thing is uglier and filthier than any "Yellow Rag" journalism you could imagine. I just can't believe The NYTimes would put its imprimatur on such obvious partisan hackery!

    All Hillary has to do is expose the members and organizations that comprise this Hit Squad, and the whole country will run to take a hot shower.

    I just have a feeling that The Times is going to rue the day it decided to go down this road, and, it might just be the unhappy recipient of the biggest backlash a so-called Newspaper ever received.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 11:14:19 AM EST
    but when you are talking to irrational Republicans that's not how they think. They think the CGI is control of the world economy and that Obama is just a puppet of Bill Clinton.

    Parent
    Can you cite an example of someone saying that? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Payaso on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 12:53:07 PM EST
    Other than a nut like Alex Jones?

    Parent
    WND (none / 0) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 01:49:23 PM EST
    has been shopping that line along with other conservative sites.

    Parent
    The Press is anti-Hillary (none / 0) (#11)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 11:54:14 AM EST
    It looks like the anti-Hillary attitude of the press will backfire, however....

    Hillary does well to run her campaign without trying to please the press.

    The good news is (none / 0) (#12)
    by NYShooter on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 12:40:47 PM EST
    that this story came out this early in the campaign. And, inasmuch as Hillary must have known this was coming we'll get to see how She & her Team handles it.

    I hope she has a system in place like her Husband, Bill, had when he was running. Y'all remember Bill & James Carville's "War Room?" That was when they instituted a rapid-response team to handle all the crap thrown at him during the campaign. The idea being that letting accusations linger was a bad idea, so hitting back, and hitting back hard right away, pretty much neutralized the negative attacks.

    Anyway, it was pretty much common knowledge that the Clinton Foundation was going to be a major topic of attack by the GOP. It will be interesting to se how the Hillary organization handles it.

    Psst (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 01:14:43 PM EST
    this story is years old.

    Parent
    I know that (none / 0) (#103)
    by NYShooter on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:11:03 PM EST
    But, what's your point?

    Parent
    The Clinton Foundation is a ... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 03:21:33 PM EST
    ...  501(c)3 nonprofit organization, and not a for-profit corporation or a political action committee.

    People who believe otherwise in the absence of facts are mistaken.

    People who insist otherwise in the face of evidence to the contrary are delusional.

    People who imply otherwise by misstatement and omission of facts are duplicitous.

    I won't be baited into arguing with others about this manufactured issue, because I simply refuse to acknowledge the validity of their baseless contentions.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    How does (3.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 03:30:00 PM EST
     the Foundation's tax status have anything to do with the question of whether "we will see a pattern of financial transactions involving the Clintons that occurred contemporaneous with favorable U.S. policy decisions benefiting those providing the funds[?]"

     

    Parent

    It has nothing to do with it...... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 04:32:35 PM EST
    ....and quit pointing out such things.

    Parent
    Jim, what a coincidence! (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 07:15:53 PM EST
    Here I was, just talking to someone in my office about Clinton Derangement Syndrome, and you show up. Time and again at TL and in other threads, you've proved yourself to be a more than willing conduit for the reckless dissemination of baseless and often venal right-wing allegations against Barack Obama, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Democrats in general, Muslims, people of color, etc. In such matters, you're nothing but a bad joke in perpetual search of its own punchline.

    Parent
    The Clintons do not benefit (none / 0) (#50)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 09:51:14 PM EST
    financially if money is donated to a charity that is a non profit.

    Parent
    Actually the success of the foundation is (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 09:56:49 AM EST
    very important to the Clintons.

    It provides a base for supporters to be employed in.

    It provides valuable PR work.

    Can you imagine the fall out if it collapsed or had to drastically pull back?

    I haven't read the book but I will and I look forward to it being challenged rather than just attacked because of the politics of the author.

    Parent

    Yes, just because (none / 0) (#66)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 10:00:02 AM EST
    he regards libruls as dirt, is no reason whatsoever to question his objectivity.

    Good to know.

    Parent

    Can't both be true? (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 10:53:29 AM EST
    Even a hopelessly biased arsehole can stumble upon a nugget of truth once in awhile.

    And a pro-bias can be just as blinding to the truth as an anti-bias.

    Either way, the media outlets in question should do their own research and report their own findings...but we really don't have many media outlets that practice the tenets of ethical journalism.  They're professional regurgitators for the most part

    If you're looking for ethics, I wouldn't look at the mainstream media business...or the politics business, for that matter.  Ethical is the exception to the rule on both fronts.

    Parent

    No, kdog, they can't both be true. (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 11:52:39 AM EST
    The Clinton Foundation exists for a specific purpose, which is clearly articulated in its mission statement and focuses on five specific areas of concern:

    • Improving global health;
    • Increasing opportunity for women and girls;
    • Reducing childhood obesity and preventable diseases;
    • Creating economic opportunity and growth; and
    • Helping communities address the effects of climate change.

    As you can note above, providing public relations services for the Clintons' political aspirations is not one of them. The family derives no direct or material benefit from the foundation. Just because Jim and Fox News loudly and obnoxiously insist otherwise does not therefore make it so.

    I can speak with some authority on this particular subject, because I happen to make my living primarily as a consultant to charitable organizations, foundations and philanthropists. I know both the federal 501(c)3 law, and how these organizations and individuals can operate within that. And quite obviously, Jim and Fox News do not.

    There are many wealthy individuals and families -- some prominent and well known, others not so much -- who have endowed foundations in either their own names or in the names of loved ones, as a means of channeling their charitable desires in a specific manner that can make a real difference in other people's lives, and can further continue to do so even after the founders have long since departed this world.

    That other individuals, organizations and corporations might voluntarily choose to contribute to and / or assist those efforts for whatever their reasons is something that's to be lauded and commended, and not maligned or viewed with unfounded suspicion due to one's own particular political orientation.

    Peter Schweizer has a well-documented track record as a "journalist" with a very clear agenda and as such, his book is a thinly veiled and scurrilous political hit piece. And shame on the New York Times and Washington Post for signing an agreement with him to further "develop" his book's dubious premise.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    OKlet me get this straight... (none / 0) (#75)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 11:58:30 AM EST
     your first assertion is that nothing the author writes can be possibly be true because he has a bias against the Clintons..

       On the other hand, anything the Clintons say about their own activities must be true despite having  bias in their own favor.

      You don't perceive a problem with believing both of those assertions simultaneously?

    Parent

    Yours is a specious allegation ... (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:17:41 PM EST
    ... in search of substantive proof that likely does not exist. You can no more conflate the Clinton Foundation's mission with Mrs. Clinton's presidential campaign, than you can the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation with Microsoft.

    Parent
    Gates has never held (none / 0) (#84)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:34:22 PM EST
     and currently shows no interesting in holding public office.

       Should he decide to run for office then his activities should be subjected to a very high level of scrutiny just as Clinton's should now.

       On the other hand, I would sound pretty silly if I tried to assert that the only critiques of Gates that should be taken at face value are the ones he or his minions provide.

      I don't think anyone would argue with a straight face that the only criticisms of Microsoft's business practices that can have merit are ones disclosed in Microsoft press releases.

    Parent

    BTD was right, Recon. (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:46:53 PM EST
    You really have no idea what you're talking about, and you quite obviously have an unspoken agenda here. To once again use a favorite if somewhat shopworn analogy of mine, you and your friend Peter Schweizer are the gorillas at the L.A. Zoo, flinging your own poo at your viewers to see what sticks.

    Admittedly, I too have an agenda, for that matter. The difference here is that I can't be bothered to hide my oft-declared political orientation behind some ostensibly high-minded folderol like "searching for the truth," as you do, or "political independence," as Jim does. I've stated openly both my biases and my position within the Democratic Party, so that others can take that into account when evaluating my writings and opinions should they choose to do so.

    And in this particular instance, the facts are likely on BTD's side and not yours. To paraphrase Gertrude Stein's pithy description of Oakland, there is no there there in your oft-repeated and entirely specious insinuations about Mrs. Clinton, CGI and the Clinton Foundation.

    I'm through here. Good day.

    Parent

    So... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:16:56 PM EST
      you, with your vast experience and  unrivalled sophistication, can't conceive of any way a person could perform a favor for a prospective or past donor?  

       Even if the IRS had a space on the forms for all officers to disclose such things (it doesn't btw), believe it or not, there are people in the world who don't always follow all the rules.

      The IRS is not intended to and provides no oversight for situations where a donor wants a favor from an officer of a § 501 (c)(3). If  a donor requests that a person soliciting for a charity use his influence to help a business venture get approval that is not going to be apparent.

      If I donate $10K to the local build a house organization because the CEO happens to be the former mayor and appointed most of the zoning board and he  agrees to use his pull at City Hall to get me the zoning variance I need to build my new Car Wash, nothing related to any filing with the any governmental entity will make that evident. The lack of notice in the records, doesn't mean it didn't happen that way.

       I'm pretty sure you already knew that.

     

    Parent

    It is getting stale, Reconstructionist (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by christinep on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 03:05:34 PM EST
    As Donald suggests, your language can appear to be that of the high-minded seeker-of-truth, but your writings more and more appear to be that of the very partisan Repub hopping on any hint of anything that could be contorted into the next "scandal" involving the Clintons. Lots of supposition from contrived connections that are likely to exist for anyone, followed then by jumping quickly, quickly down the rabbit hole.

    Here is what I find: Your starting point seems to be a posture of trying to amass facts or some such; and, in the process, you ply with question upon question while you appear to stand back.  Not surprisingly, there is no movement from you in terms of "I see" or "Oh yes, but..." or "I take your point, but what if," etc. ... there is no acknowledgment or growth when you start the ostensibly questioning process with its set end-point that is quite predictable.  But then, there really can't be change/movement/shift/growth is the ostensible discussion that you initiate in these matters because your agenda is a political one.  

    The giveaway as to your political agenda for me came some time back when I finally recognized your conclusions-posing-as-questions as the classic attempt to lure others into a prove-the-negative game.  OTOH, if you were genuinely concerned that actions in the CGI or elsewhere flouted the law, then state with specificity--not supposition or possibles/could have beens/pipedreams--what specific action(s) ran afoul of what specific law ... rather than suggest or lead by innuendo that something must have happened so as to shift the burden by requiring proof of a negative.  

    IMO, nice try --- passable camouflage for you --- but, the game is not working for you anymore.

    Parent

    look (2.00 / 2) (#132)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 03:24:38 PM EST
      when you stoop to the level of Donald and the other silly sector folks and have no response beyond only a Republican would think that way, iy's your credibility that is at issue.

      Usually, you write with a fair degree of intelligence and insight and don't descend into the cesspool with the paranoid blowhards.

      Every attempted factual assertion so far has been easily refuted. Donations were made by foreign governments during her tenure; the audit of the Foundation sheds no light on the issues at hand; IRS disclosures do not encompass notice of other dealings between donors and the officers of the Foundation....

      If you chose  not to believe  every person  with large international financial interests and each foreign government  for whom the USA is obviously an important friend or foe donated solely because of altruism and just coincidentally donated huge sums  to the one outfit controlled by  the Clintons with no regard for their influence go right ahead.

     

    Parent

    Where's the beef? (5.00 / 4) (#143)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 07:58:19 PM EST
    And if you choose to use straw arguments, leaps of faulty logic, and specious accusations in the form of "questions", you'll be challenged to provide your own facts and evidence.

    So far, you've provided nothing.

    Parent

    Yes, Recon, you can (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:46:27 PM EST
    construct all kinds of hypotheticals that sound nefarious....but the problem is you have no evidence of any wrongdoing.

    And, the accuser you rely on, going back to BTD's point, has a terrible track record....

    Your basic assumption that all donors expect favors really condemns the Republicans....The only way out is public financing of elections.  Are you for that?  

    Yes, you can assert than any donor might want a quid pro quo....But then again making the accusation that the Clintons gave a quid pro quo is totally lacking.

    And, what do you exactly propose?  That CGI stop taking donations?

    Parent

    You just reminded me of a true story. (none / 0) (#118)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:29:26 PM EST
    Buddy of mine used to develop self-storage facilities. One that he had just finished had dark-blue doors. The city called him into a meeting and said the color conflicted with codes or CC&Rs or whatever.

    Doors are expensive, and self-storage facilities have dozens of them.

    My friend listened for a while and finally said "I may have neglected to mention this but as my facility is in this community I would like to give back in some way. Is there a local charity that I could make a donation to that would benefit the community?"

    Here it is, probably 20 years later, and that facility has dark-blue doors to this day...

    Parent

    My example (none / 0) (#123)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:45:10 PM EST
     was based on real life too. I wasn't the donor who wanted to build, it wasn't a car wash and the charity of the ex-mayor did something other than build houses for the poor, but otherwise that's what happened. It would never have come to light except there was an investigation into other things and one of the people caught up in that investigation snitched to help themselves.

       Moreover, even when it's not overt tit for tat, there can be problems. What if I'm being solicited for a donation and rather than me asking for positive action on my behalf, I am afraid declining to give will lead to a governmental entity with which I must deal to deny me something I need?

       It certainly isn't a crime if I feel compelled to give by my fear, but the official who is asking me is increasing his budget (and power and prestige) due to my belief his influence in other realms must be considered when I decide to whom and how much to give.

       I'm just using penny ante local examples but even at that level it creates an appearance of impropriety due to the inherent conflicts involved.

       On the stage on which the Clintons operate and the and with the dollar amounts involved, I don't think it is "conspiratorial" to suggest this is an important issue.

       

    Parent

    Without the slightest bit of actual evidence? (5.00 / 4) (#144)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 07:59:57 PM EST
     On the stage on which the Clintons operate and the and with the dollar amounts involved, I don't think it is "conspiratorial" to suggest this is an important issue.

    Yes, it is.

    Parent

    BTW - You're doing far more ... (5.00 / 4) (#145)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:00:40 PM EST
    ... than "suggesting it's an important issue".

    Parent
    Not just a bias (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:31:21 PM EST
    But a track record of not only being consistently wrong but also consistently making accusations against progressives without any basis at all.

    This author has no shame....

    Parent

    A "bias" - heh (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:36:13 PM EST
    Is that what they call it when a partisan hack  repeatedly makes specious claims about Democrats that end up being debunked/retracted/corrected when examined by fact checkers?

    Still no evidence?

    Parent

    Taking the mission statement... (none / 0) (#89)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:43:11 PM EST
    of the Clinton Foundation at it's word is as foolish as the NY Times taking Schweizer at his word...that's my point that I guess you missed.  Earlier you were spouting 501c3 status as "proof" of something...what exactly, I don't know.

    Personally, I don't care if the Clinton Foundation is 100% on the up and up because I can't vote for Clinton for the litany of reasons in her (and fair or not, her husbands) public service record.  I need not dig deeper to reach my conclusion on her candidacy that I can not in good conscience vote for her, absent a political and ideological metamorphosis, and mea culpa for past documented public record dirty.

    Parent

    I just had a word with my conscience... (5.00 / 3) (#164)
    by unitron on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 07:26:44 AM EST
    ...and it asked me what outcome of the 2016 Presidential election could possibly be worse than the GOP getting back into the White House that would cause me to pursue a voting strategy other than one based on trying to prevent them from doing so.

    And then it suggested a clothespin for my nose while in the voting booth if necessary.

    Parent

    kdog, you have no experience in this realm. (none / 0) (#105)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:21:57 PM EST
    kdog: "Taking the mission statement of the Clinton Foundation at it's word is as foolish as the NY Times taking Schweizer at his word...that's my point that I guess you missed.  Earlier you were spouting 501c3 status as 'proof' of something...what exactly, I don't know."

    Honestly, dude, if you don't know, then please refrain from commenting offhandedly on such matters. I would respectfully suggest that 501(c)3 law is one of them.

    In accordance with their designated tax-exempt status, not-for-profit organizations have to be open and transparent about their missions and business. Those organizations that deviate substantively from their respective missions run a serious risk of courting trouble with both the federal government and those states in which they are incorporated.

    If you have questions about how the Clinton Foundation conducts that business, a good place to start looking for answers is its 990 filings with the IRS, which by that aforementioned 501(c)3 law are public documents.

    Good day.

    Parent

    Perhaps... (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:32:29 PM EST
    you have too much experience in this realm, and it is clouding your objectivity.

    I've worked in business long enough to know there is an unspoken understanding when my boss donates money to any non-profit tied to his business connections..."you owe me a favor".

    Parent

    AGs love to go after (none / 0) (#121)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:39:16 PM EST
    people who abuse non profit status of companies....

    That is why if the Republicans really had something, an enterprising Republican AG of DA would have gone after them for abusing the non-profit status of CGI.....

    Parent

    Please read the Crooks & Liars (none / 0) (#124)
    by oculus on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:50:44 PM EST
    link in this comment, w/particular attention to the mission statement of the Government Accountability Institute:

    ny shooter

    Parent

    oculus: "Please read the Crooks & Liars link in this comment, w/particular attention to the mission statement of the Government Accountability Institute[.]"

    ... take a gander at the Government Accountability Institute's 990 filing with the IRS, specifically its answer to Question No. 4 in Part III on page 2, in which the IRS asks the organization to describe its program service accomplishments.

    And there are other interesting tidbits of information nestled in that document, as well. For example, as GAI's president and secretary-treasurer, Peter Schweizer received $161,539 in compensation for 2012. Others listed as officers on the nonprofit's payroll, and their respective compensations:

    • Stephen K. Bannon, Chairman -- $80,769
    • Richard White, Exec. Vice President -- $121,654
    • Stuart A. Christmas, Vice Pres. & Gen. Counsel -- $101,461
    • Wynton C. Hall, Communication Strategist -- $101,461

    That totals $566,794. Given that the rest of GAI's payroll was $585,369, while its revenues totaled $2,200,017 ($2.2 million in contributions, plus $17 in interest income), that means 52% of the organization's derived income went to directly to its officers and staff -- which strongly suggests that the management and employees of this particular "charity" are also, coincidentally, its primary beneficiaries.

    Nice work if you can get it, huh? :-D

    Parent

    It looks to me like GIA should not be (none / 0) (#140)
    by oculus on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 04:55:47 PM EST
    tax-exempt but is. Am I missing something?

    Parent
    ... to challenge GAI's tax-exempt status, given that a 501(c)3 designation generally precludes an organization from engaging in any sort of partisan political and / or electoral activity. If Peter Schweizer's work product doesn't cross that boundary, it certainly crowds the frontier.

    Parent
    Man (none / 0) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:59:40 PM EST
    what a bunch of sleazebags. You definitely will need a shower. Ugh.

    Hey anybody that wants to get in bed with those people go ahead. Slime an organization that does good things like help the Aids Crisis in Africa and these sleazebags are using their 501C money to spew slime.

    Parent

    I agree, kdog (2.00 / 1) (#133)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 03:26:34 PM EST
    but with Mondriggian, yman, Donald and others, if you disagree with any single point then you are a bad person.

    And Mondriggian reveals what he is when he quotes Runyon:

    The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.

    Plainer, ethics don't manner and anyone who points out Hillary's baggage must be attacked.

    Which is the reason that neither the Left or the Right can expand past a certain point. There are still too many people in the world who don't care who brought the "facts," just if they are or are not "facts."

    Parent

    Jim, don't you mean to say (5.00 / 3) (#138)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 04:13:28 PM EST
    it doesn't matter who provides the facts, as long as they're proven facts?

    Or was that another Freudian slip?

    Parent

    Quit being an insukting (none / 0) (#134)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 03:29:04 PM EST
    pr*ck, Jim, and then maybe people here will treat you with the respect you think is your due.

    Parent
    He Didn't Mention Me... (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 04:28:14 PM EST
    ...I feel slighted.

    Parent
    Ah Mondriggian, my dear shadow (2.00 / 2) (#149)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:23:18 PM EST
    I make no claim on you, or anyone, for respect.

    I am who I am. I write the truth as I see it.

    If you don't like me, fine. But don't pretend that you don't attack anyone who doesn't agree with you 100%. We both know better.

    For example, you went ballistic against me when I stated my opinion on why Mexico and CA countries have failed so miserably in providing a stable country for their citizens.

    And we have just watched you make things up I never said, even when what I said was on the same thread.

    Parent

    No, Jim, you said Latino culture is inferior (5.00 / 4) (#150)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:34:39 PM EST
    and said that you had visited Latin America when you went to the Bahamas.....

    You know nothing about Latino culture.

    Parent

    Oh, Jim, you poor thing! (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 10:36:04 PM EST
    Did all the big bad liberals here hurt your feelings? If you'd like us to quit, then you should stop being such a self-righteous ignoramus and prig. I mean, really, your inner child is just begging me to hunt it down during recess, kick its little white-wing a$$, and then steal its lunch money.

    Parent
    Jim, get off the cross (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 11:35:00 PM EST
    somebody else could use the wood,

    Parent
    Just for Jim (none / 0) (#197)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 03:26:39 PM EST
    You bring up an interesting possibility (none / 0) (#71)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 11:22:21 AM EST
    and there may be a modicum of truth in his writings, but, as Damon Runyon put it:

    The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.



    Parent
    Yes kdog, they can both be true. (none / 0) (#107)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:24:29 PM EST
    I can speak with some authority on this particular subject, because I happen to be on the boards of two 501(c)3's, one of which I set up.

    Parent
    But but but... (none / 0) (#110)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:52:27 PM EST
    it's a 501c3!  The mission statement clearly states!

    Allrighty then...that settles that! lol

    Parent

    Ha! Let's just say that any (none / 0) (#111)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:15:48 PM EST
    rich, powerful, famous person's non-profit clearly benefits the founders in numerous ways that aren't named in the mission statement.

    Parent
    So you are opposed to rich (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:49:53 PM EST
    people setting up non-profits because they benefit in other vague ways?

    Good grief.  Clinton's charities help poor people and sick kids....Get a grip.  This is a good thing....

    Parent

    Oy. (none / 0) (#160)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 01:40:53 AM EST
    Who ever said... (none / 0) (#170)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 10:29:01 AM EST
    there is no such thing as shady for a good cause?

    No one here has claimed that the Clinton Foundation doesn't do wonderful charitable work.  All some of us are curious about is at what cost those donations are made.

    Y'all can believe every donation to the foundation is 100& altruistic with no strings attached...but I think you're fooling yourselves.

    Not to say a lil quid pro quo is necessarily a bad thing...if the Foundation feeds starving people in exchange for minor unspoken foreign policy considerations, I could possibly get down with that. Like I said, shady for a good cause.  Like the legend of Robin Hood....everybody loves Robin Hood.

    Parent

    The problem is assuming a quid pro quo (none / 0) (#199)
    by MKS on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 03:42:20 PM EST
    To get a change in foreign policy would require Obama to go along....

    That is quite a mountain to climb....to prove that both Hillary and Obama were willing to change foreign policy for a contribution to CGI.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#201)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 04:07:42 PM EST
    it could possibly be a such-and-such-will-happen-after-Hillary's-elected arrangement, couldn't it?  

    After all, didn't out-of-office Repubs cut deals with the South Vietnamese in '68 and the Iranians during the hostage crisis?

    This hyper-defensive attitude regarding the unimpeachable virtue of the Clintons in all circumstances is a little bit ludicrous.  

    Parent

    That IS ludicrous (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 04:20:12 PM EST
    Then again, straw arguments usually are.

    Parent
    I would (none / 0) (#112)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:16:13 PM EST
    frankly be glad to tighten up the rules on 501c's. The problem here is the supreme court decided that they should be able to do whatever they want to do and take unlimited money from people. And the odd thing is that they were using Hillary Clinton as the reason to open up the money spout and now they're the ones complaining about the money spigot being open and Clinton taking advantage of it. She wants to overturn Citizen's United and I think she will try. It's personal with her.

    Parent
    This really has nothing to do with (none / 0) (#117)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:26:39 PM EST
     the broad parameters for organizations to qualify as § 501 (c)(3)s.

      No one is asserting that the money raised by the Clinton Foundation is not used for worthy causes (although as with many such outfits there are concerns about amounts eaten up on "overhead" and PR).

       The issue isn't whether the organization does charitable work as most people would view it regardless of tax laws. The issue is whether it obtains the money it uses for charitable work by trading on the actual or perceived ability of the Clintons to help donors who want help in gaining an upper hand with the U.S. or other governments because and whether the Clintons ever provide such help.

    Parent

    Recon: "The issue isn't whether the organization does charitable work as most people would view it regardless of tax laws. The issue is whether it obtains the money it uses for charitable work by trading on the actual or perceived ability of the Clintons to help donors who want help in gaining an upper hand with the U.S. or other governments because and whether the Clintons ever provide such help."

    ... you offer absolutely no proof to that effect, save for your own increasingly scurrilous innuendo.

    Sorry, but you have no standing here to be constantly redrawing the yard lines or moving the goal posts in this particular game.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I'm not saying i have proof (2.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 03:02:07 PM EST
      I'm saying, quite clearly, that it is wrong to attempt to explain these issues as nothing about which to be concerned because the complaints come from Clinton foes.

       Why don't we all wait until the information is disclosed (and I am certain there will be reports from many more than Schweizer) and then attempt to evaluate what it shows and doesn't show with some degree of impartiality.

       Leaping to defend before you know what the evidence will show, is a dangerous proposition.

    Parent

    And making accusations (5.00 / 4) (#146)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:03:17 PM EST
    ... without the slightest bit of evidence is even more dangerous.

    Parent
    If you have no proof, (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:51:25 PM EST
    then stop making implied accusations.....

    Parent
    With all due respect, sarc, ... (none / 0) (#122)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:40:43 PM EST
    sarcastic: "I can speak with some authority on this particular subject, because I happen to be on the boards of two 501(c)3's, one of which I set up."

    ... while I'm sure that your nonprofit organization has a good mission that's eminently worthy of public and private support, you are hardly Bill and Hillary Clinton, and yours is not exactly the equivalent of the Clinton Foundation --which is the nonprofit organization I was specifically discussing.

    (Disclosure: I also serve on the boards of two nonprofits, one here in Hawaii and one in SoCal, in addition to my financially compensated work with others.)

    Yes, there are and have been charitable organizations with a dark side, but they are few and far between, and when they deviate widely from their stated mission, they are invariably discovered and often shuttered. Is that to be the inevitable fate of the Clinton Foundation?

    Hardly. Rather, given the high profile of its founder -- not to mention his relative notoriety in some influential circles -- I would offer that the Clinton Foundation and its 501(c)3 subsidiary CGI have to be particularly meticulous and transparent with regard to how they conduct business.

    Therefore, neither organization is very likely to ever become a front for some nefarious purpose benefitting members of the Clinton family, as some here have been repeatedly suggesting without foundation.

    Were that to ever actually be the case, now or in the future, there are so many people currently vested in the foundation's stated mission and its success that any Clinton found to be subverting that mission would probably be summarily shown the door by the board of directors.

    And yes, that does happen. MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) fired its own celebrated and high profile founder, Candy Lightner, in 1985 over conflicts between that organization's mission and her own undisclosed activities as a paid lobbyist in Sacramento, which of course threatened its 501(c)3 status with the IRS.

    As with so many things in life, one size does not necessarily fit all. It's wrong to conflate the stated mission of the William J. Clinton Foundation with the declared political aspirations of its founder's spouse.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Influence is influence. (3.50 / 2) (#126)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:57:57 PM EST
    imo, denying that the existence of this particular 501(c)3, or any non-profit founded by a rich and powerful person, has the potential to be influential, just makes the denier look silly.

    Parent
    Then I guess it's a good thing ... (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:04:40 PM EST
    ... absolutely no one is doing that.

    Parent
    Ahh, but there's that (none / 0) (#159)
    by NYShooter on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 12:25:36 AM EST
    ever-tempting, teasing, inviting, "Potential."

    And, THERE"S your proof.

    Parent

    Double oy. (2.00 / 1) (#161)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 01:41:54 AM EST
    Truth hurts? (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 06:26:28 AM EST
    Absolutely no one is claiming a 501(c)(3) doesn't have the "potential" to be "influential".  The issue is whether there was any wrongdoing in this case.  Youi have no evidence, so you have to resort to these ridiculous types of general/straw claims.

    Parent
    Well, gee, sarc! (4.67 / 3) (#162)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 04:29:15 AM EST
    sarcastic: "imo, denying that the existence of this particular 501(c)3, or any non-profit founded by a rich and powerful person, has the potential to be influential, just makes the denier look silly."

    You want to see silly, then take a look in your bathroom mirror. Because last I heard, being powerful and influential is hardly sufficient grounds for criminal indictment -- never mind the tag-team slander in which you and Recon have inexplicably chosen to engage, like a couple of malicious old biddies who just can't help but gossip.

    I'll say the same thing to you that's been said repeatedly to Recon by numerous people here these past few days. If you have actual proof of illicit quid pro quo on the part of Mrs. Clinton and certain donors to the Clinton Foundation and CGI, then lay it out and let's see it. If you don't, then please cease with your innuendo to that effect.

    These repeated suggestions of "potential" illegal influence peddling on the part of the Clintons, based upon nothing more than your own hypothetical supposition and conjecture, are unseemly, unethical, and ultimately corrosive and damaging to our larger body politic.

    And after two-plus decades of having to endure this phuquing bull$H!+ -- and trust me, it IS phuquing bull$H!+ -- many of us are simply tired of hearing it, and are no longer willing to suffer such high-handed jackassery lightly or in silence.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You have claimed over and over, (none / 0) (#175)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 11:13:24 AM EST
    at great length, that nothing, er, untoward, could possibly happen w/respect to their non-profit. 'Cuz, you know, its mission statement. Or something.

    You certainly know high-handed jackassery.

    Parent

    Come On Mordiggian... (none / 0) (#87)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:40:23 PM EST
    ...you think Jim actually reads books.  His objectivity will be whatever Fox News tells him is in the book.

    If Jim read, we would not have these inane conversations about everything he knows to be true that most 5th graders know to be non-sense.

    Parent

    CGI makes the Clintons look good, (none / 0) (#80)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:28:14 PM EST
    so that is why they would accept bribes?

    Quite a stretch.

    CGI cannot pay for Clinton PR or expenses.

    And, Obama just went along with the Clintons' desire to accept a bribe and Obama changed U.S. policy to benefit CGI?  Really???

    Will you apply the same standard as to the Kochs and their candidates?

     

    Parent

    It not only can (none / 0) (#86)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 12:39:50 PM EST
      but does cover certain of  Clinton's expenses. Bill has traveled the world on the Foundation's dime and as some of the links I have provided below indicate, he has at least on occasion engaged in activities unrelated to the Foundation's philanthropy while on "Foundation missions."

        And, yes, obviously, the Kochs' political largesse troubles me greatly.

      I'd suggest it's not a real good approach to defend the Clintons by equating them with the dark money GOP patrons.

       

    Parent

    And is Bill Clinton running for any (none / 0) (#106)
    by oculus on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:22:16 PM EST
    political office?  Did CGI exist when he did run or held any government office?  

    Parent
    Well of course it covers his expenses (none / 0) (#119)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:32:49 PM EST
    So that is it?  Some of Bill's expenses were personal and should not have been covered by CGI?  Pretty thin gruel.

    And how does this fit within the conspiratorial narrative that Hillary and Obama were bribed by CGI donations?

    Have you looked at the financials?  It is pretty big outfit.  No one donation would seem all that significant.

    Glad you are so concerned about the Kochs.

    Parent

    Actually, that is not correct. (none / 0) (#104)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 01:21:42 PM EST
    The Clintons (or anyone who sets up a non-profit) do not (directly) benefit financially if money is donated to a charity that is a non profit - only if they don't take a paycheck or any other financial disbursement from the non-profit.

    I have no idea if the Clinton's take money from their Foundation. I would assume not.

    Parent

    That is what I said (none / 0) (#120)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:35:39 PM EST
    That is the point.  An allegation of bribery, and that is what this is, regarding donations to a non profit seems to be an illogical concept to begin with.

    Parent
    Probably not much (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Yman on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 06:39:41 PM EST
    Then again, it doesn't have anything to do with the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus or a host of other specious fairy tales.

    Parent
    Because the writer's allegations ... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 06:58:05 PM EST
    ... are intended to mislead low-information readers into believing that the Clinton Foundation is some sort of PAC founded primarily to support Hillary Clinton's presidential aspirations. He is further implying -- without outright saying it in print, which would be both libelous and actionable -- that the Clintons and foundation donors have an illicit quid pro quo relationship. And that is simply duplicitous and wrong.

    BTD is right. This is nothing more than a low-brow hit piece.

    Parent

    I have a question . . . (none / 0) (#32)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 04:27:40 PM EST
    If that were the case, where were the Republicans when it was happening in real time? They have NEVER passed up an opportunity to 'get' a Clinton, especially her.  Are all these clowns now just noticing? Were they not paying attention while she was SoS?

    Parent
    The story is either true or it's not. (none / 0) (#14)
    by Payaso on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 12:56:14 PM EST
    I am more concerned with the truth (or falsity) of the matter asserted than who is doing the asserting.  This would not be the first hit-piece on the Clintons to fail miserably.

    Schweizer is a partisan hack ... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Yman on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 07:38:20 PM EST
    ... who has a long history of making discredited claims against Democrats:

    1.  Claimed Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse benefited from a stock sale because of his position in the U.S. Senate - forced to retract when there were numerous factual problems with his claims, including the fact that Whitehouse wasn't even a member of the committee that Schweizer claimed.

    2.  Al Gore - he claimed Gore was receiving $20,000/year in zinc mine royalties from a mine that was, in fact, closed.  USA Today had to issue a correction

    3.  Obama - Claimed Obama skipped more than half of his intelligence briefings.  Schweizer got 3 Pinnochios for this silly claim.

    4.  Pelosi - attacked her as a hypocrite for using non-union workers at her vineyard, despite the fact that she hired workers who were paid a higher rate than union workers and it would have been illegal (as the FWA noted) for her to even discuss a union contract - the only way to upply union workers.

    5)Obama/Sebelius - He falsely claimed that Obama met with Sebelius once in 3 1/2 years.  Easily debunked by basic fact checking.

    6)  Rep. Jim McDermott (D) - Falsely claimed that Jim McDermott committed insider trading related to a Bioterrorism bill.  Debunked in follow-up pieces by the Seattle Times - "unfair, "Inaccurate" "specious"

    And numerous examples where his "sources" didn't match his claims or didn't exist.

    Need more?

    Parent

    Oh, come on... (3.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 01:09:31 PM EST
     and get with the program. It doesn't matter whether the book (that no one here has read)contains the truth. Why should we care about that?

      Obviously, nothing the Clintons do can be considered dubious let alone ill befitting a Presidential candidate.

      Surely, if anything they do were to raise legitimate questions a book would be written by  a Democratic supporter of Ms. Clinton because her supporters care far more about truth and propriety than they do anything else and they would be the first to call attention to anything that might be considered troubling if someone other than the Clintons did it.

       The very fsct the book was not written by one of her supporters is all the proof you should need to know it cannot possibly contain anything but lies.

     

    Parent

    Oh, come on (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Yman on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 06:42:09 PM EST
    The accusers credibility - or complete lack thereof - are always an issue.

    But your straw arguments are almost amusing.

    Parent

    Oh it's you (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 01:14:19 PM EST
    Whether the story is true or not is something reporters determine on their own, not based on a hack's book.

    But hey ru so yea hack team! right?

    Parent

    But, you're not following that (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 01:20:50 PM EST
    You've already decided that because it's written by a "hack" that it's just part of the conspiracy to deny Clinton the Presidency.

      When you preemptively attempt to discredit something you have not read for purely partisan hack reasons, it seems a bit hypocritical  to accuse others.

    Parent

    Reading is fndamental (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 01:24:45 PM EST
    IF the New york Times does actual, you know, reporting, and breaks a story, then let's evaluate it.

    That's not what happened. Thyey instead made a deal with a hack to develop his storylines.

    This is unethical journalism.

    Apparently this simple fact defies you.

    Parent

    And you know (none / 0) (#20)
    by Reconstructionist on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 01:41:25 PM EST
     the NYT did no independent fact-checking prior to publishing?

      You also know  the Editors don't really believe that there is any merit to any of the facts asserted or any inferences drawn from those facts? You already know the NYT just wants to destroy Hillary because otherwise it would not publish unflattering information?

       

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 01:48:34 PM EST
    you have to also realize that the NYT was the one selling the bogus Whitewater stuff. So yeah, they have a history of falling for hoaxes from the GOP. Beyond Clinton you can go back to them swallowing lies for the Bush Administration. So why would you automatically believe someone who has shown that kind of problem before?

    Parent
    New York Times actually has a so-so record (none / 0) (#51)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:01:24 PM EST
    The New York Times supported the Iraq War.....

    I would not be surprised if it has always supported the war de jour, including the Vietnam War, at least in the beginning.

    My eyes were opened regarding an obscure event in history.  The New York Times was in favor of toppling the democratically elected Arbenz Government in Guatemala.  The N.Y. Times fell for and advanced the idea that Arbenz was a Communist, when he was not (and so what?)  The Guatemalan Ambassadors to the U.S. and the U.N. desperately tried to avoid the coming U.S. invasion.  The UN turned its back.

    The Nation, however, got Guatemala exactly right and editorialized against the overthrow of Arbenz.

    I do not trust The New York Times on issues of war and peace.   It is not just Judy Miller.  It tends to supports the administration (even Republican ones) on defense policy.

    Parent

    A lot of people here (none / 0) (#58)
    by NycNate on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 07:51:16 AM EST
    Liked the NYT reporting in the Zimmerman/Trayvon, Eric Garner affairsThe NYT supported Obama and many Democrats. But now you guys don't like it because of its piece on Hillary.  

    Is it that the article is unfair or is it that you just don't want it reported?

    Parent

    If you want to comment in my threads (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 07:56:03 AM EST
    please read the posts.

    I'll make an Open Thread now if you want to discuss something else.

    Parent

    Because it's"unfair" (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:04:53 AM EST
    More importantly, a baseless, specious attack by a partisan hack with a long history of making BS claims.

    Anything else?

    Parent

    Did you read the story? (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 01:49:43 PM EST
    Try reading the story so you know whats in it.

    Parent
    Chipotle! (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 02:15:01 PM EST
    I'll see your Chipotle!, and raise you ... (4.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 03:24:42 PM EST
    ... a BenGHAZEEeee!!!

    ;-D

    Parent

    Love the "questions" (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by Yman on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 06:47:23 PM EST
    The last resort of someone with no evidence to back up their claims.

    Parent
    The NYT board, some years back (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 03:11:00 PM EST
    also ran with reporter Jayson Blair's stories that he later admitted were either fabricated or plagiarized.

    And MKS is exactly right about the "paper of record" having a history of being journalistic fellow travelers of the U.S military industrial complex.

    Parent

    Eric Alterman (none / 0) (#202)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 04:13:18 PM EST
    reminded me yesterday that the NYT also spread the story that the OKC was perpetrated by Arab terrorists before McVeigh and Nichols were arrested..

    Parent
    Would It make a difference (none / 0) (#31)
    by NycNate on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 04:23:14 PM EST
    if it could be proven true?  

    Not to my post (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:55:35 PM EST
    I'm curious, did you read it?

    Parent
    Unlikely (none / 0) (#53)
    by MKS on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 10:22:54 PM EST
    It seems illogical that you would bribe a public official by donating to a non profit charity.  Especially when the public official does not benefit financially.

    The premise makes no sense.  The Clintons take nothing financially from CGI....Well, I think Bill gets a bupkis salary.

    Parent

    Other reports surfacing that (none / 0) (#34)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 05:18:42 PM EST
    The Washington Post did not enter into such an agreement despite the mention that the WP also went down the NYT road on this one.  I saw that claim today in--of all places--Politico.  Also now mentioned in TPM is that ABC and "60 Minutes" turned down a similar arrangement with the author. Note: So far, there have been no return comments from those purportedly denying such an arrangement.

    Given NYT's peculiar history beginning with "Whitewater" et al and chuckling at the newer we-didn't-go-there tidbits alluded to in my first paragraph ... and stirring it in the hype cauldron ... we might have to wonder who will schnooker whom in the end :)

      And then there's this: The Clinton Foundation hasn't been established for all that many years and, whatever one's position as to Bill and/or Hillary, almost everyone acknowledges that the political and governmental duo are smart (very smart.) The reality is that there is no motive for either Clinton to have been less than totally above-board in all things Foundation; rather--at this stage in the lives of these two very smart and experienced people in the ways of DC & much beyond--there is every reason from the get-go to be squeaky clean. IMO, this latest attempt at smear and dirt will reveal that the real motive is partisan dotted with the individual author's base attempt to rack up sales with a bit of orchestrated throwing-c$@p-on-the-wall-to-see-if-anything-sticks.

    Update re:WashPo confirmation (none / 0) (#35)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 05:40:26 PM EST
    Washington Post has since confirmed (E.Wemple) that it secured a deal with the author in order to have access to allegations before book's publication.
    Competition is tough, I guess, in the news business.

    Parent
    Lol!~ Just saw the cover of the book . . . (none / 0) (#43)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 07:53:05 PM EST
    If this doesn't scream hair-on-fire-bull-sh!t, I don't know what does . . .

    You'd think he could find a better cover design if he wants anyone but the nut jobs to take him seriously . . . NYT just went all the way down the rabbit hole . . . again?

    It's Jerome (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 08:22:00 PM EST
    Corsi redux. But you have to realize that the cover is very effective in fleecing the rubes. I'm sure that the conservatives who post on this site will be running to the bookstores to buy this. You know the story about a fool and their money etc.

    Parent
    It really looks like something (none / 0) (#49)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 09:33:20 PM EST
    I would design as a joke . . .  thankfully, I worked in children's books and never had to deal with that kinda crap coming through my office . . . even on the art end, we read all the books as they were in progress, several times for visual edits, etc . . .

    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 08:28:44 PM EST
    "Customers who bought this also bought...."

    Is good

    I expect the reviews will be too

    Parent

    That cracked me up (none / 0) (#48)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 09:29:17 PM EST
    and 2 of his previous books are going for 2 bucks+change :P

    Parent
    Ahem, who is your Republican candidate (none / 0) (#47)
    by christinep on Mon Apr 20, 2015 at 09:25:16 PM EST
    for President among the bunch that are running (or expected to run)?  After all, it is always nice to get a read on someone's perspective....

    Is This True: (none / 0) (#61)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:28:37 AM EST
    Judge Gladys Kessler of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia ordered the State Department to produce passenger manifests from 47 overseas trips that Mrs. Clinton made as secretary of state.

    Citizens United requested the manifests last July through a Freedom of Information Act Request.

    There seems to be a solid connection between:

    (1) donors to the Clinton Foundation,

    (2) companies receiving contracts from foreign countries,

    (3) and Clinton Foundation donors receiving favorable treatment from the State Dept.

    <><> 60 companies contributed $26 million to the Clinton Foundation.

    <><> 44 of those companies also contributed to a $3.2 billion dollar fund established at the Clinton Global Initiative (a wing of the foundation).

    <><> At least 25 companies made contributions to 15 private/public partnerships set up by ex-Pres Clinton;

    And who administered all of them?.......the State Department w/Hillary at the helm.

    Maybe so (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:33:53 AM EST
    But that's not germane to my argument.

    Stick to what my post is about please.

    Parent

    Please explain (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by NYShooter on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 09:20:57 AM EST
    1. Companies contributed money to the CGI.(a private non-governmental philanthropic foundation.

    2. Yet, the United States of America, Department of State administered them? With Hillary Clinton at the helm, no less??

    Please explain how that works?

    And, a link would be helpful.

    Parent

    How??? (none / 0) (#64)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 09:43:39 AM EST
    Please explain how that works?

    I wish I or someone else could do that but Big Tent Democrat has spoken

    Parent

    ... an unbiased party here, somehow interested only in preserving the integrity of our governmental processes. One needs only to refer to the original court case so infamously ruled upon by the U.S. Supreme Court, to realize this fact.

    As such, I would take any such allegations about Mrs. Clinton from that particular source with a very serious grain of salt.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The only criticism of the NYT's (none / 0) (#115)
    by oculus on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 02:23:54 PM EST
    "Deal" is by the head of MediaMartters.  He is labelled a "Hillary Clinton surrogate."

    I eagarly await NYT Public Editor Margaret Sullivan's input.

    Baa waa waa (none / 0) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 03:20:18 PM EST
    Schweizer makes clear that he does not intend to present a smoking gun, despite the media speculation. The book relies heavily on timing, stitching together the dates of donations to the Clinton Foundation and Bill Clinton's speaking fees with actions by the State Department.
    Schweizer explains he cannot prove the allegations, leaving that up to investigative journalists and possibly law enforcement. "Short of someone involved coming forward to give sworn testimony, we don't know what might or might not have been said in private conversations, the exact nature of the transition, or why people in power make the decision they do," he writes.

    The guy who wrote the book even admits there is no proof. He even admits that he just linking up dates and pretty much making stuff up.

    And he's already been found to have fallen for a fraudulent accusation regarding the keystone pipeline.

    Pop the popcorn.

    This is not a court of law (none / 0) (#135)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 03:40:14 PM EST
     it's a political campaign.

       and, as any lawyer will explain to you circumstantial evidence is evidence and people get held liable in civil actions and even convicted of crimes based on reasonable inferences drawn from circumstantial evidence.

      Short of someone coming forward and admitting they gave money to curry favor and gain the benefit of the Clintons' influence or the even less likely event of the Clintons or someone who was present with them when donations were brokered stating a favor was offered in exchange for a donation obviously there will be no "smoking gun."

       I think you guys are too wrapped in the cocoon to understand that circumstantial evidence of unseemly (but not criminal) conduct will be a factor many people who are undecided will weigh in making their decision.

       It's going to take a good bit more than the 300th rollout of "they're just out to get us" to respond persuasively.

    Parent

    You (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 03:51:49 PM EST
    got punk'd by this guy. Now it's a "court of law"?  Lol. Moving the goal posts again.

    What you don't seem to realize is that the GOP is the one in a cocoon claiming that everything is going to be "SOMETHING".

    These tactics of slinging mud is apparently pure desperation. I seem to recall eghazi was going to be the "end" and her numbers went up.

    Your concern trolling is duly noted.

    Parent

    Concern trolling? (none / 0) (#141)
    by nycstray on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 05:14:15 PM EST
    I thought it was more like blog clogging . . .

    Parent
    And, it will take a bit more than (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by christinep on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 05:56:12 PM EST
    the 300th (or more) bellowing of "scandal" from the Repubs and their known employees/associates (aka the putative author in this matter) to get and maintain the public's interest.  

    You ask for reason--and, of course--you should, Reconstructionist.  Part of reason involves a real standing back and looking through the eyes of a non-partisan, a non-political junkie.  Here is what we know, reasonably, about all the allegations of scandal from the Repubs & friends:  They go nowhere ... "sound & fury signifying nothing."  Okay. Let's say that in itself is fine with the party stalwart ... but, I'm guessing that what isn't fine is that each bout seems to end in a/the Clinton(s) being more respected, gaining more power, and more.  Now, for Democratic political types like myself, that really is fine. I must say, tho, that the basis for Repub crying-wolf-scandal-mongering that almost always ends nowhere--and, is often counter-productive--makes little sense.  

    I'm sure that you realize that the significant majority of Americans who vote already have an opinion about Hillary--most of it positive, as preliminary polls show (especially when compared to potential challengers.) My frustration, to be honest, is my inability to understand why you all keep going down the same losing path.  OTOH, I recognize that circumstances can change; and, that when you have little, you play the hand that you have ... with gusto.  Question, tho: When do you fold them?

    Parent

    What ridiculous BS (5.00 / 4) (#148)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 at 08:12:21 PM EST
    This isn't evidence of any type of wrongdoing.  We all know what circumstantial evidence is, and this is evidence of nothing.  I think you're too wrapped up in your CDS and Clinton conspiracy theories and have to resort to ridiculous leaps of faulty logic, specious claims and innuendo.  It's going to take a good bit more than the 3,000,000th rollout of

    "Clintons!"

    to make your tinfoil claims stick.

    Parent

    Ludicrous.. (none / 0) (#206)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 04:35:59 PM EST
    they're not your mommy and daddy..

    "CDS". Get over it. Nobody's accusing them of killing Ron Brown and Vince Foster..

    Jesus, what are they? spiritual avatars who've utterly transcended forever the sins of the flesh and old fashioned American quid pro quo politics?

    They're not? (none / 0) (#207)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 22, 2015 at 04:54:13 PM EST
    Wow - are you actually capable of forming an argument that doesn't include silly, specious, straw claims?  

    Tell you what - you produce some evidence - any evidence - that backs up these specious claims.  Until then, it IS just more CDS bu/$hit.

    Or I'll respond to the bu/$hit as I choose, and you can "get over it".

    Your choice.

    For review, more hackery (none / 0) (#208)
    by Reconstructionist on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 11:31:02 AM EST
    Not "hackery" .. unlike Scweizer (none / 0) (#209)
    by Yman on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 12:50:52 PM EST
    But alas, STILL not evidence of ANY type of wrongdoing.

    Sad face.