home

Saturday Open Thread

Our last open thread is full, here's a new one, all topics welcome. Please try not to hog the thread so everyone has the opportunity to start new discussions. There's no reason for anyone to comment 20 or 30 times in a single thread. It's called blog-clogging. And no insults to each other please.

< The West "Just Doesn't Get" ISIS | "El Chapo" Escapes From High Security Prison >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Trump (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by magster on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:00:49 PM EST
    Conservative columnist Krauthammer called Trump a "rodeo clown" who was destroying the GOP's prospects at winning in 2016. In response, Trump said "And then I get called by a guy that can't buy a pair of pants"

    I just found out that Krauthammer is paralyzed from the waist down, so Trump is now mocking disabled people too? He's unbelievable.

    Krauthammer (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:24:54 PM EST
    wouldn't recognize a clown if one was standing in front of him. Ted Cruz is every bit as much a clown as Trump is but I don't remember him actually speaking about it.

    The only reason Trump is "killing their chances" is because he's actually saying what the GOP thinks and what the GOP base wants to hear. A little self examination by Krauthammer and why he supports these failed policies would be a lot more interesting than him talking about Trump being a clown. Earth to Krauthammer: they're all clowns. Trump is just louder than the rest of them.

    Parent

    Not defending Krauthammer.... (none / 0) (#20)
    by magster on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:44:05 PM EST
    just bashing on Trump more.

    Let's see that's 5 comments this thread. Only 25 more to go! :)

    Parent

    Oh, I understood (none / 0) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:53:34 PM EST
    what you were saying. I just found it ironic that Krauthammer was calling Trump a rodeo clown when the truth of the matter is Jeb is as much a clown as Trump with his statement that Americans need to work more but somehow Krauthammer only sees Trump as an idiot.

    Parent
    I believe that Trump... (none / 0) (#16)
    by desertswine on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:24:42 PM EST
    was referring to the repulsive Jonah Goldberg and not the odious Krauthammer. Here's video.

    Parent
    I thought it was in response to Krauthammer... (none / 0) (#19)
    by magster on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:42:29 PM EST
    It's a pretty bizarre insult that only makes sense as to Krauthammer. Why can't Goldberg buy pants?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:54:13 PM EST
    if you follow the link it seems no one knows what Trump meant when he was talking about pants and Goldberg.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#25)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 01:03:31 PM EST
    it was directed at Jonah Goldberg.

    Which makes it less despicable, but ?

    Parent

    What does the insult mean, then? (none / 0) (#26)
    by magster on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 01:11:25 PM EST
    Who cares, really? (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 01:51:43 PM EST
    You shouldn't overanalyze a carnival sideshow.

    Parent
    He may have picked up (none / 0) (#28)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 02:01:29 PM EST
    on a nickname of Jonah's amongst the America-hating Left is the Doughy Pantload, but that would require some familiarity with the Internet.

    Parent
    The only clue I found was a reference to (none / 0) (#34)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 04:35:39 PM EST
    Goldberg having called Trump, "Lonesome Rhodes in a $10,000 suit."

    Lonesome Rhodes was the pop demagogue played by Andy Griffith in the film, A Face in the Crowd.  Griffith plays a late 50s era jailbird guitar player.  Patricia Neal turns him into a TV star.  From there he turns into a thoroughly self serving and professional crap artist/opinion maker.

    Once a year or so you can watch it on TCM.  


    Parent

    Nothing (none / 0) (#37)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 05:24:51 PM EST
    tops "short fingered vulgarian". I don't even know what it means but it fits Trump to a tee.

    Parent
    "A television star famous for (none / 0) (#38)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 05:39:29 PM EST
    his `billionaire' character who makes a good living licensing his name after failing in the casino business"

    - Alex Pareene, Salon, 2011

    There may be some truth in this.

    i Chumps 4 Trump

    Parent

    It's (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 06:06:26 PM EST
    beyond clown car into WWE territory.

    GOP Thursday night RAW! Fox Aug 6th.
    Featuring:
    Donald "the Vulgarian" Trump
    Jeb "the Smart one" Bush
    Marco"Cotton Mouth" Rubio
    Scott"Union Buster"Walker
    Chris"the Big Bully" Christie
    Rand"Aqua-Budda"Paul
    and more!
    It's a wonder they are not putting it on pay-per-view.

    Parent

    "The Smart One" (none / 0) (#60)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 10:44:26 AM EST
    If Jebya wins I predict the whole Bush gang will appear on the revised Ten dollar bill.  

    They'll be lined up like Moe, Larry, and Curly.

    Parent

    "Face" is a frightening film. (none / 0) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 07:08:07 PM EST
    What's amazing is that this cinematic indictment of a Red-baiting and pandering media was directed by Elia Kazan, who was none too popular at the time with his contemporaries in Hollywood due to his willingness to testify before the House Un-American Activities Committee -- not to mention a national television audience -- and identify colleagues for alleged past and present associations with the Communist Party and its members.

    It's been common wisdom for quite some time amongst film critics and historians alike that Andy Griffith deserved at least an Academy Award nomination as best actor for his ferocious portrayal of the demagogic Lonesome Rhodes, if not the actual Oscar itself.

    But alas, the remarkable and still-contemporary "A Face in the Crowd" was completely shut out of the 1957 Oscar race altogether, whereas the now-terribly dated melodrama "Peyton Place" received nine nominations, including best picture and best actress for a syrupy turn by Lana Turner. This was in great part due to Academy voters' distinct antipathy toward Griffith's director, and likely accounts for one of the most memorable and egregious snubs in Oscar history.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Another excellent Griffith portrayal..... (none / 0) (#104)
    by unitron on Tue Jul 14, 2015 at 01:44:35 PM EST
    ...of an absolutely chilling character was opposite Johnny Cash in the 1983 made for TV movie "Murder in Coweta County".

    Parent
    I love this (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by sj on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 03:29:30 PM EST
    article on Bernie Sanders. He has been so active for so long -- it's a miracle that he just never gave up.

    Okay, maybe I just like the article. But I love the picture.

    Incredible (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by sj on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 01:46:21 PM EST
    Sadly (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 03:46:06 PM EST
    i cant say unbelievable.  But stunning.

    Parent
    What is Unbelievable... (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 04:16:00 PM EST
    ...is the cops didn't do a damn thing.  Cops in a small town in the south took a pass on harassing black folks who bothered white folks.

    Who says we aren't making progress.

    Parent

    Torture, another American exceptional hypocrisy (none / 0) (#1)
    by Palli on Sat Jul 11, 2015 at 08:00:23 AM EST
    Time to re-read Oath Betrayed: America's Torture Doctors by Stephen Miles.

    There has always been a group of doctors in the professional organization working against the silence & self-censorship imposed on American culture during the Cheney illegal war years. We have names of the torture designers and the practitioners, many made big money from government contract. First among the them are Jim Mitchell and Bruce Jessen who hoodwinked the military brass into their "scientific approach" to what was essentially sado-masochistic criminal assault.
    http://tinyurl.com/nqcnsly

    Now these doctor and soldier torturers have melted back into society, universities, hospitals & businesses as if they never had a hand in the Evil. The lasting effect of their efforts can be seen in our popular culture and our law enforcement and the heavy personal health toil this illegal war has taken from the honest and good soldiers of our military. Like slavery, Cheney Torture  will eat away at our culture for years to come. Our inability to "own" it in the past and defend and compensate the victims added to our political failure to single out the policy makers has infected us all. May gods have mercy on us, as they say.

    This story surfaced again several days ago. (none / 0) (#21)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:49:42 PM EST
    The New York Times obtained a copy of the American Psychological Association's investigation into their complicity.  Ugly stuff.  Depravity normalized.  

    Here's the Newsweek story.  It contains links to the NYT piece, the "obtained" report, etc..

    Parent

    Yes, and as we know, (none / 0) (#29)
    by Zorba on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 02:33:45 PM EST
    MD's were involved in the torture and force-feeding of Guantanamo detainees.
    Link.

    This is, indeed, disgusting.  It amounts to war crimes.
    Any clinical psychologists and physicians that participated in this should, at the very least, lose their licenses to practice.
    Well, as far as I am concerned, all of them, but in particular Cheney and the others in the Bush administration, as well as the military officers who allowed this to go on, should all be facing a war crimes tribunal in front of the International Court at The Hague.
    But we all know that ain't gonna happen.

    Parent

    Of course, some of them (none / 0) (#45)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 11:13:19 PM EST
    may actually have been doing those things out of a distorted (demented?) sense of patriotism.

    Parent
    So... (none / 0) (#82)
    by sj on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 02:13:23 PM EST
    ... some of them might think being an American trumps being a human being?

    Parent
    mmm, worse than that I'm, afraid (none / 0) (#89)
    by NYShooter on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 03:39:06 PM EST
    some of them might think, as GWB devotees, committed acolytes, ardent disciples, and/or, fanatic followers that Bush defines what traits a real  American possesses, and, as to humanity, are not at all concerned at its conspicuous absence.

    Parent
    Serena! (none / 0) (#2)
    by magster on Sat Jul 11, 2015 at 09:59:03 AM EST
    Serena Williams now owns all 4 grand slam titles. This has only been accomplished 5 times in the Open Era.

    Yep (none / 0) (#7)
    by smott on Sat Jul 11, 2015 at 01:23:14 PM EST
    Tennis is odd that way....they don't call it a Grand Slam unless you win all 4 in a calendar year.....
    However I'll go on record that Williams takes the U.S. Open and wins a Calendar Slam in September too.

    These are the times of year that I truly miss Justine Henin. There is no one left on the WTA tour who has either the game much less the mentality to touch Williams. A strange paradox, she's so good, her dominance actually isn't that good for the game. But until someone is willing to step up significantly mentally and physically, Serena  Rules. And good for her.

    Henin was the only one in recent history who could beat Serena on her own terms when Williams was playing well.  

    Parent

    Meet the (none / 0) (#3)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 11, 2015 at 11:52:27 AM EST
    New Bush same as the Old Bush
    Big syllable words and lots of fancy conferences and meetings and - We're not leading. That creates chaos.
    None of that sissified diplomacy stuff for us, no siree, it's back to the good old days of cowboy diplomacy. Your'e either with us or against us, bring it on, yee-haw.

    Jeb (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 11, 2015 at 12:19:43 PM EST
    thinks he can sound like his brother, advocate for the same policies as his brother but yet not be his brother. LOL.

    Parent
    JEB! (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jul 11, 2015 at 12:22:14 PM EST
    should work longer hours if he's to set an example for the rest of us peons.

    Parent
    Jeb! has been working (none / 0) (#6)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 11, 2015 at 12:50:41 PM EST
    really long hours this week. Trolling for cash.  300 top donors assembled in a retreat in Kennebunkport, ME.  The highlight was for the donors to be put on trolleys and taken to the Bush mansion on the Atlantic ocean.  The Bush compound, in addition to Daddy Bush's place on the promontory of Walker point, is the newly constructed home for Jeb!

    Parent
    "Some call you the elite" (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 04:38:08 PM EST
    "I call you my base."

    - Dubya Dubya Dubstep II, aka "Jeb"

    Parent

    ... was visiting the Bosnian town of Srebrenica today to attend a remembrance ceremony on the 20th anniversary of the massacre of 8,000 Muslim men and boys by Serbian forces, was compelled to flee the scene by angry crowds of Bosniaks, who booed him and pelted his entourage with rocks and bottles.

    It should be noted that Vucic is a former radical Serb nationalist who served under Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic in the late 1990s. Last Wednesday, he managed to secure support from Serbia's Russian ally Russia to veto a UN resolution calling the events in Srebrenica a genocide. While the Bosnian government subsequently apologized for the incident, Belgrade denounced it as an "assassination attempt."

    I can appreciate the Serbian prime minister's desire to both make peace with his neighbors, and shepherd his country's re-entry into the European community as a member of good standing.

    But in light of his government's effort earlier this week to secure that Russian veto of the UN resolution on Srebrenica, where feelings are understandably still extremely raw over the tragedy that took place there 20 years ago, Vucic's appearance today in that town was quite startling and very insensitive, if not actually foolish from the standpoint of his own personal safety.

    Aloha.

    Harper Lee's long-lost first novel ... (none / 0) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:05:46 AM EST
    ... "Go Set a Watchman," which is expected to be sold out in advance before it even hits the bookstore shelves this next Tuesday, is already causing a real stir in the literary world.

    Specifically, critics are abuzz with the apparent revelation that the upstanding and noble Atticus Finch of "To Kill a Mockingbird" was not exactly the rock-ribbed pillar of moral rectitude which actor Gregory Peck embodied to tremendous and almost devastating emotional effect, in his Oscar-winning turn for the 1962 film version of that novel.

    "Watchman" takes place twenty years after "Mockingbird" at the dawn of the civil rights movement, and the now grown-up Jean Louise Finch -- who's since dropped her childhood nickname of Scout -- returns to Macombe, AL from her home in New York for a visit, only to discover to her utter dismay that her now 72-year-old father is clearly not the man she once so idolized as a child, and whom several generation of readers have now come to know and love in the nearly 60 years since "Mockingbird" first caused a sensation.

    Rather, the Atticus Finch of "Watchman" is a white Southerner who's very much the vestige of a soon-to-be obsolete era. As I would understand from the reviews, he appears to much more resemble Rod Steiger's Chief Gillespie of "In the Heat of the Night," that is, a man who is struggling to grasp and understand the rapidly changing times in which he now finds himself, but is simply unable to adapt as quickly as some would hope and demand.

    I have to admit, I'm now very intrigued.

    I'm not intrigued. I'm depressed. (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by magster on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:40:45 AM EST
    I'm not going to read it. As this was written before To Kill a Mockingbird and then was never released, I'm going to believe that that was a deliberate choice by Harper Lee as the character of Atticus evolved in her creative mind, and that the Atticus of this novel, released 58 years after the fact is a variation or lump of clay to the later finished project.

    The character of Atticus in the book and movie were so inspiring, I'm not going to ruin it.

    Parent

    While I understand, (none / 0) (#11)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 01:56:04 AM EST
    and, respect your feelings, I hope you change your mind, eventually.

    I have to admit that when I first heard about "Watchman," and, how radically different it was from "Mockingbird," I had similar emotions about reading it. But, after the shock wore off, and rationality crawled back into my head, I thought, "How nuts am I?" How unfair to Ms. Lee am I, a literary illiterate, to have the unbridled hubris of thinking that suddenly I belong in the Pantheon of the greatest authors in history: Hemingway, Dostoyevsky, Goethe, and, therefore possess the requisite qualifications to sit in judgement of a truly great mind; "Oh, Lordy, Lord, how will you ever forgive me, Ms. Nelle Harper Lee?"

    Joking aside, there is a risk in reading this new novel, and having a wondrous bubble carried around in my brain for over 50 years go, "poof." But, that's a risk every time a favorite book, or, movie I've enjoyed comes out with a sequel. On average (I'm only guessing here) more often than not, I'm disappointed. But, every once in a while, if the author is really, really good, and, really honest with him/her self, he/she recognizes whatever tiny flaws the original work might have had, and goes on to build upon, and, improve on the original, leaving us with the after-thought, "I didn't think he/she could top the first one, but.....................wow!"

    Having given us, "To Kill A Mocking Bird," Harper Lee has so earned my continuing support, and, gratitude, I feel a little embarrassed at having hesitated, even for only a minute.  


    Parent

    I'm hoping that "Watchman" ... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 05:11:46 AM EST
    ... offers us an Atticus Finch who's clearly evolved over time. He's human and he has flaws, as do us all. Perhaps he could afford to be charitable and magnanimous toward black people in the 1930s, when "Mockingbird" took place, because as a white man of sterling reputation he was secure in his own position in the community.

    We should probably also remember that the Atticus Finch in "To Kill a Mockingbird" was a character in a childhood memoir, as seen through the eyes of a young girl between the ages of 6 and 9. She obviously idolizes her father, and so perhaps she's looking back at him through rose-colored glasses as she recounts the story.

    In "Mockingbird," the civil rights movement was still a long way off. But now, as "Watchman" opens two decades hence and that movement is kicking into high gear, the suddenly very real prospect of the old order actually giving way must have been quite frightening to a lot of Southern whites. After all, they hadn't ever really known and experienced anything else up to that point.

    Atticus is apparently among them. Scout's Rock of Ages from childhood has been swept away by the tides of social change, and replaced by a frightened and perhaps even somewhat befuddled older man, who's unable to quite grasp the reality which is intruding upon and enveloping his world.

    The notion of Negro equality with the white race, which sounded perfectly reasonable (if almost completely unattainable) to Atticus 20 years prior as an abstract concept, now doesn't appear to be quite so attractive, bringing with it as it does a wholly uncertain future.

    Given your comment, Shooter, I would also note that "Go Set a Watchman" was actually written well before "To Kill a Mockingbird." As I said in my original post, it is literally Harper Lee's long-lost first novel.

    Her editors had asked her to essentially re-work "Watchman" in its entirety, and instead re-orient her story's focus upon Scout's reminiscences about Atticus from her childhood, rather than her present conflicts with him as an adult. It took Ms. Lee two years to accomplish that task, and what she and her editors ended up with was an entirely different book altogether, which became "Mockingbird."

    "Watchman" was placed in a file cabinet at her publisher's offices, where it was soon forgotten amid all the ensuing hoopla over "Mockingbird." It apparently remained in that same file cabinet drawer for over 50 years, until another editor accidentally stumbled upon it, while that file cabinet was being moved to another location.

    Prior to its re-discovery by that editor, Harper Lee had assumed that "Go Set a Watchman" had been lost, because what had been locked in that file cabinet all these many years was the only draft copy of her original manuscript.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Art is meant to be viewed & thought about (none / 0) (#14)
    by Palli on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 07:57:04 AM EST
    Essentially there are 3 iterations of the story line of TO KILL A MOCKING BIRD.

    We may never read #2. But the issues are so significant in Southern American social history that we all owe it to our collective conscious to read Lee's first literary interpretation of the theme. I wrote elsewhere: To Kill a Mocking Bird is the stuff of American myth, perhaps To Set a Watchman is closer to the more difficult American Truth.
    I for one will read "Watchman" as soon as possible, ruminate, and then puzzle out the artistic, editorial & sociological motivations and consequences on the thinking populace of the USA.

    Parent

    Yeah, Donald, I got my timeline (none / 0) (#46)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 11:22:43 PM EST
    screwed up; that's what I get for trying to make sense in the middle of the night.

    But, other than that, the more I read the reviews & commentary regarding Watchman the more I'm liking this unexpected twist to the original story line. All of a sudden reality has entered in, contrasting with, and, IMO, improving upon the fantasy, Cinderella-like flavor of the original Mockingbird.

    Parent

    I'm looking forward to reading it. (none / 0) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 01:11:14 AM EST
    When we read "Mockingbird" in 9th grade English class, I said during a class discussion that Atticus Finch was always a little too morally upright and remotely perfect for me, because I had a hard time believing that he even goes to the bathroom.

    The other kids laughed, which of course was my intent. But to my surprise, my teacher didn't disagree with that sentiment, and said that mine was an entirely reasonable viewpoint.

    But in doing so, she was the one who also cautioned me to remember that this was a childhood reminiscence of a young girl who adored her father, and suggested that perhaps this was the reason why Atticus was presented as such. At that point, "Mockingbird" became much more relevant and accessible to me.

    The revelation about "Watchman" makes Atticus even more human to me, to know that he's a guy who can break wind and then blame the dog.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Going by what has been leaked (none / 0) (#18)
    by Redbrow on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:29:10 PM EST
    Harper Lee portrays Finch as an historically accurate southern democrat, warts and all.

    After all, from it's inception and through the decades when it was a powerful and relevant political orginization, the KKK was almost exclusevly democrat.

    Parent

    And what a relief it was that the right wing (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 12:54:43 PM EST
    took it off our hands.  

    Parent
    And this is both revelatory ... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 02:51:41 PM EST
    Redbrow: "After all, from it's inception and through the decades when it was a powerful and relevant political orginization, the KKK was almost exclusevly democrat."

    ... and relevant -- how, exactly?

    Look, most everyone here is fairly well educated. By and large, we're quite aware of the fact that the prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965, a rather large bloc of the Democratic Party -- the so-called "Dixiecrats" -- was comprised of racist Southern white conservatives. We also know that after LBJ signed those two aforementioned acts into law, the Dixiecrats started to abandon the Democratic Party in droves.

    Those Dixiecrats first supported George Wallace's independent presidential candidacy in 1968, delivering several southern states and about 45 electoral votes to him in that election, before eventually joining the Republican Party at the expressed invitations of President Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, per their respective initiatives under the GOP's odious "Southern Strategy."

    So what's your point in stating the historically obvious, other than to make what you likely perceive to be a dig at current Democrats? We were talking about Harper Lee's "Go Set a Watchman," and not about the KKK and the Dixiecrats, or even about politics in general.

    Anyway, as Mr. Natural said, these yahoos are now your party's problem, and not ours. Republicans sowed the wind by openly courting white malcontents with racist dog whistles, and they can now reap the inevitable whirlwind which has long accompanied the presence of those nativist kooks.

    Good luck with that.

    Parent

    The GOP (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 03:10:13 PM EST
    keeps trying to erase the last 50 years of their history because just now it has become embarrassing. They handed this issue over to liberals 50 years ago, they made the choice to welcome people like Strom Thurmond into their party, they made all these bad decisions but now somehow it's the Democrat's fault. Frank Luntz has said that if you repeat a lie 5 times that people will believe it. He must have been talking about the GOP base when he said that. The GOP needs to deal with their own self created demons and trying to erase everything they have done is not going to work and even more so their unwillingness to deal with their history is going to make things worse.

    Parent
    This is how (3.00 / 3) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 04:13:34 PM EST
    Donald writes:

    and relevant -- how, exactly?

    Look, most everyone here is fairly well educated. By and large, we're quite aware of the fact that the prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965, a rather large bloc of the Democratic Party -- the so-called "Dixiecrats" -- was comprised of racist Southern white conservatives. We also know that after LBJ signed those two aforementioned acts into law, the Dixiecrats started to abandon the Democratic Party in droves.

    The relevancy is that the Democratic Party accepted the southern block for years and years.  They can and do now complain but the hypocrisy is plain to see.

    And while the Southern Democrat voted Repub in the presidential election they remained solidly Democratic in congressional and state/local elections for years and years. They actually moved toward local Repub representatives very slowly starting in the mid/late 70's.

    Who can forget Sen Byrd, Democrat  of W Va and is infamous "white n..." statement? He was  defended in this blog. See comment 19

    Byrd recanted his former connection to the KKK. End of story.

    Yet none of you seem willing to forgive Forrest who resigned from the KKK and tried to do better in his later years.

    I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen.

    Link

    It is also very difficult for me to believe that the author only had 1 copy. Even back then paper and carbons existed that gave easy copies. Plus, I see no way an author would willingly accept that it was "lost" unless they wanted it lost.

    So what we have is a "found" draft that surely has been edited. We should not accept that it represents what she wrote.

    Parent

    It was my intent to spark a conversation about her new book, not argue about the Dixiecrats and their history with the Ku Klux Klan.

    You want to talk about the politics of Sen. Byrd, Nathan Bedford Forrest, and other myriad Confederate and post-Civil War southern figuresstuff, then go start your own sub-thread on the subject. It's certainly a topical subject but otherwise, none of that really has anything to do with either "Go Set a Watchman" or "To Kill a Mockingbird."

    As far as your doubts about there having been only one remaining original manuscript of "Go Set a Watchman," I'll take the word of Harper Lee and the publisher over your uninformed opinion on the matter. I mean, why would anyone make that up if it wasn't true? I certainly hope you're not implying that there's some sort of 58-year conspiracy that's afoot here.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Donald, I don't know your intent but you led off (3.50 / 2) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 07:07:41 PM EST
    with the KKK. And since her book isn't released I am unsure how it can be debated with any hope of accuracy.

    No, what you want to do is start a smear contest and when Redbrow seems to agree with you we find that the KKK is no longer relevant yet a TV show is.

    Well pass the biscuits and red eye gravy.

    Yes, Donald. If you and GA are going to talk about the Dixiecrats and the Repubs "Southern Stratefy" you are going to have to include all of it. And in the South 20 years after TKAMB the time would be the mid 50's and there was no Southern Strategy and the Democratic Party was rock solid segregationist and a Repub President was getting ready to send troops to Little Rock.

    I put it as plain as possible. The Democrats used the solid South for those 20 years and only found religion when pushed by the Repubs.

    To suddenly find sin when the other side does the same thing is hypocrisy.

    You opened the door. I have merely shown what is behind it.

    And no, I am not claiming a conspiracy, which is always the first defense of someone from the Left whenever a question is raised. It is known as "that is obviously ridiculous defense."

    I just have trouble believing that someone as private as Harper Lee was would be satisfied that the only copy of her novel was "lost."

    Sadly, this news is not without controversy or complications. Harper Lee's sister Alice Lee, who ferociously protected Harper Lee's estate (and person) from unwanted outside attention as a lawyer and advocate for decades, passed away late last year, leaving the intensely private author (who herself is reportedly in ill health) vulnerable to people who may not have her best interests at heart.

    link

    Back in the day I spent a lot of time in Ms Lee's home town of Monroeville, AL. Although I had read the book I had no idea she was from there. It pains me to think I might have been able to meet her.

    Parent

    Oh, for crying out loud, Jim! (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:41:04 AM EST
    Reading comprehension is your friend. Try exercising it sometime. I led with Harper Lee. Redbrow is the guy who first brought up the KKK and the fact that early Klansmen were Democrats.

    To which I then responded that none of us here needed a history lesson from him, because what he said was hardly a revelation, and not at all relevant to the subject of discussion. You're the one who's since been carrying on about Southern politics, not me.

    Why can't you just discuss something like literature or music in a pleasant manner, without always seeking to make everything about YOU and YOUR partisan politics? What a shallow life you must lead, if that's what you live for.

    And quite frankly, that's pretty much the only side of you we ever see here. You're like the rude and obnoxious in-law at a family gathering who knows it all and has to have the last word, and that's exactly why so many people here cringe whenever you show up.

    In the meantime, you can knock yourself out having that last word, because I'm going to take Zorba's advice from the prior open thread, and cease talking to you.

    :-|

    Parent

    Uh Donald, you can discuss (none / 0) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 09:22:32 AM EST
    whatever you want but when you launch into hypocritical attacks don't be surprised that they get pointed out.

    Donald, you want to have it both ways. If you had just said that the other Democrats had been happy to use the Southern Democrats for years and years I would not have disagreed.

    Go back and read your comments. You opine about the Dixiecrats but ignore that they had been good Southern Democrats for the 20 years after TKAMB.

    Parent

    Nobody cares about your hissy fits (none / 0) (#54)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 09:33:24 AM EST
    here.  

    Parent
    Apparently, (4.00 / 4) (#56)
    by NYShooter on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 10:07:21 AM EST
    you do.

    Parent
    Thanks for noticing (2.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 03:28:54 PM EST
    Folks.

    Parent
    You knew he would (1.00 / 1) (#96)
    by sj on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 04:45:40 PM EST
    be unable to resist responding, right?

    Parent
    NYShooter? (2.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 09:35:57 PM EST
    Yes, he's one of a number of paragons of self-control around here.

    Parent
    Here you go (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by sj on Tue Jul 14, 2015 at 12:10:35 PM EST
    another banal comment for you to show how compulsive you are about responding to everything.

    Here is what I expect: you (m88) will rate this a "1" and then you will write something that you think is clever, but is really small and spiteful.

    And you will be pathologically unable to prove me wrong and let this comment remain unanswered.

    So on that note, I'm done. For now.

    Parent

    Jim (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 06:29:02 PM EST
    no Democrats are calling themselves Dixiecrats these days, no candidates are calling themselves Robert Byrd Democrats but there are plenty of Republicans calling themselves Ronald Reagan Republicans which means they support Jim Crow, Apartheid and voting restrictions. So take responsibility for where the GOP is now because you're one of the ones that helped take it there.

    Parent
    RR republicans (none / 0) (#71)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:41:13 PM EST
    The truth is that I have religious background and I tend to think that both parties are bad and corrupt . . . but what is a Ronald Reagan Republican and how does that mean restricting voting rights of AAs?

    I also think that God puts some people in as president . . . sometimes Rep such as RR and sometimes Dem such as Truman in 48 . . . Truman in 48, in order, among other things, to support AAs . . .  though I will tend to be pretty miffed about "W" if God himself influence things to put in W rather than just thievery . . .

    Parent

    Ronald (none / 0) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:58:31 PM EST
    Reagan was a supporter of Apartheid in South Africa, was against civil rights legislation and the voting rights acts all of which freed up African Americans from under Jim Crow among other things.

    W. was a shyster who knew how to couch everything in evangelispeak during his first term. His second term he actually started doing what they wanted him to do and blew up the GOP in the process.

    Parent

    GA, talk to me about Reagan's racism (1.00 / 1) (#87)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 03:23:58 PM EST
    when you are also willing to condemn Senator Byrd and demand all the buildings named after him be renamed.

    Parent
    Jim (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 05:47:57 PM EST
    Byrd wasn't president first of all and second of all there's no Democrat calling themselves a Robert Byrd Democrat but there are plenty of Republicans calling themselves Ronald Reagan Republicans aren't there?

    Your false equivalency is downright funny.

    Parent

    The Dixiecrats... (none / 0) (#105)
    by unitron on Tue Jul 14, 2015 at 02:44:47 PM EST
    ...started in '48.

    Remember Trent Lott talking about how much better it would have been if Ol' Strom had been elected then?

    Parent

    Absolutely true (none / 0) (#43)
    by Yman on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 07:18:43 PM EST
    Yesterday's Dixiecrats, today's Republicans/Tea Partiers.

    Parent
    I'm about 100 pages in. (none / 0) (#106)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jul 15, 2015 at 12:01:25 PM EST
    The story has taken a sharp turn away from the warm fuzzies of "Mockingbird."

    Parent
    El Chapo escapes... again. (none / 0) (#12)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 03:27:55 AM EST
    CNN:
    Guards at the Altiplano Federal Prison discovered that Guzman, known as "El Chapo," was missing during a routine check on Saturday.

    Guzman was captured in early 2014 after having eluded capture for more than a dozen years.



    Ray Donavon (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 06:44:52 PM EST
    Masters of Sex and The Strain all starting new seasons tonight.

    Shuffling Sunday night time slots on the DVR is back.

    In other nooze (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 12, 2015 at 07:21:51 PM EST
    trailers for fall season 6 of Walking Dead and the spinoff Fear the Walking Dead which starts next month and looks very good.  Good cast.  

    Parent
    Ray Donavon (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 05:55:05 PM EST
    is off and running.  Looks like a good season.

    Parent
    Good News (none / 0) (#49)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 05:43:44 AM EST
    Opus is coming back! Finally a sane and sober voice added to our national discourse.

    Rumor is Bill the Cat will throw his hat into the GOP ring soon.

    Or has he (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 06:47:35 AM EST
    I often wonder (none / 0) (#51)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 07:00:13 AM EST
    if I'm the only person in America with an Opus tattoo.

    Parent
    Crickets! (2.00 / 1) (#66)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:16:25 PM EST
    You have a tattoo of crickets? (none / 0) (#76)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 01:32:17 PM EST
    BTW (none / 0) (#78)
    by sj on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 01:41:02 PM EST
    Thanks for live-blogging the SC confederate flag debate.

    Parent
    The NYT has an op Ed re Jerrerson Davis. (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 01:46:30 PM EST
    There is a statue of him in the U.S. Capital. Why?

    Parent
    Because, (none / 0) (#81)
    by NYShooter on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 01:51:54 PM EST
    at the time America was not yet 100% free of racism, as it is now.

    I guess they don't teach history in Law School.

    Pity.

    Parent

    Well, constitutional history. (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 04:17:14 PM EST
    Because (none / 0) (#84)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 02:20:51 PM EST
    jbndc: "Because [Jefferson Davis] was a Senator, a Representation be, and the Secretary of War before becoming president of the Confederacy."

    ... that came very close to destroying the country itself, and which ultimately cost the lives of 10% of all American males between the ages of 16 and 45.

    And for all that, Jefferson Davis is honored with his likeness placed in the U.S. Capitol's Statuary Hall.

    What oculus said. Why?

    Parent

    Lots of less-than-admirable people were (none / 0) (#94)
    by sj on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 04:44:00 PM EST
    accomplished. Should they all have a statue in the US Capitol?

    But this one, I think, is a deliberate poke in the eye by the political machinery of Mississippi.

    Parent

    Because, Jefferson Davis (none / 0) (#85)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 02:42:31 PM EST
    labored hard to destroy the USA.  Some people liked that. Some still do, but don't think of it in that way.  (e.g., Tea Party, Republicans).

    Parent
    Many hours (none / 0) (#86)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 02:49:35 PM EST
    of stories of Pitt's grandpappy was a challenging sit through, but the eventual highs and lows and outcome late in the night were worth it.

    Parent
    I am so loving watching (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 07:37:08 AM EST
    the republican mouthpieces on tv try to untie the Gordian Knot that is Donald Trump.   Every word they say illustrates how completely clueless they are about the republican base they have fleeced and disrespected for decades.   They are not going to know what hit them.  The patience of the rubes is gone.

    Donald understands them.  

    It's hysterical (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 09:53:39 AM EST
    A billionaire from NYC is able to understand the GOP base better than the people that have been fleecing them for decades.

    Now Trump is saying that all the other Republicans and Hillary would be giving El Chapo amnesty. LOL. Whenever you think it can't be taken up another notch, The Donald does it.

    Parent

    Two Things... (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 10:20:26 AM EST
    ...the first, almost every major new station ran some form of 'people believe' that Guzman escaped to go after Trump.  I can only assume these were jokesters and the media needed something.  LINK

    Secondly, Trump thinks he can physically kick the kingpins @ss.  Trump tweets:

    Can you envision Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton negotiating with 'El Chapo', the Mexican drug lord who escaped from prison? ....

    ...Trump, however, would kick his ass!
    LINK

    He kept it classy with:

    Mr Trump added on Twitter: "Mexico's biggest drug lord escapes from jail. Unbelievable corruption and USA is paying the price. I told you so!"
    LINK

    I love when dbags use 3rd person to brag about how great they are, but the idea that Trump could kick anyone's @ss is especially funny.

    And while his proclamation is funny, the idea that he told people Guzman was going to escape with racist comments about Mexicans is especially funny.  Now I guess told is going to get credit with his idiot followers for every crime committed by a Hispanic. This was a crime in Mexico, 1000 miles form the border an yet Trump told us so.  Mexicans are a problem.

    I guess he missed the prison break by two white fellas a month ago.

    There is little doubt why the republican base loves this guy, he is a complete moron with a large side or brown people hatred.  The same exact qualifications one needs to be in the republican base.

    Parent

    I have been saying for more than a year (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 10:33:32 AM EST
    that the tea party base was not going to take their medicine this time.  That there would be a crazy right wing candidate that would capture their imaginations, such as they are.
    I think we now know who that is.  Donald is running for president.  If not as the republican nominee, which becomes less unimaginable by the day, he will run as an independent.  Which I have also been saying for many months.

    I think the reason Mitch and Boner are avoiding saying anything bad about him is that they know it's not impossible he will win.   And they know he would run the nastiest filthiest lowest campaign in the long sad history of nasty campaigns.

    And I think they are fine with that.

    Parent

    How Do They Call Out Trump... (none / 0) (#61)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 11:07:55 AM EST
    ...without upsetting the base who already thinks Boehner and McConnell are RINO's.

    They aren't saying anything because there is nothing they can say that won't alienate the base, which is now understood to be the Tea Party lunatics who believe republicans are losing elections because the candidates are bowing to the liberal PC BS agenda.

    They truly believe they are the 'silent majority' too dumb to realize they are neither and instead of placing the blame where it belongs, on them, it's going to every R that isn't dedicated to Trump type platforms, aka real republican ideals.

    Parent

    Yeah, Trump would negotiate... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 11:41:45 AM EST
    But only to make a profit.  The Sinaloa Cartel could license his brand:

    El Donaldo cocaine.  
    El Trumpo heroin.
    El EgoBloato Smugness Reduction Clinics.

    Parent

    I am now convinced it is more serious (none / 0) (#62)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 11:29:12 AM EST
    for the GOP than I thought. Over the weekend I posted this link to a very funny (I think) Trump view of the world map to facebook, with a diplomatic comment that I trusted none of my friends would be serious Trump supporters, so everyone can enjoy.

    Got back a diatribe from my cousin who is Republican, but not normally a loon, that "we need a businessman in the WH, blah blah blah lost money with the  current moron....take back the country..."

    I did tell her I lost more money with the previous moron...but that is as far as I took it. I am facebook conflict averse.

    So funny...yep, he is gaining a following and it is going to be highly amusing.

    Parent

    I am hearing the same (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 11:49:10 AM EST
    and the funny part is the stratgerists think they will just be able to trot out some tried oppo research and finish him off.

    It won't work.  They are "them". His supporters won't believe anything bad about him the beltway says.   "They" are just out to get him.   Or will rationalize it some other way.  Another part of the monster they created.

    Parent

    I'm happy with him splitting the vote. (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 11:59:13 AM EST
    Now all we've gotta do is get Bernie selected, elected, and an enduring monument to real liberalism erected.

    Parent
    The Good News... (none / 0) (#67)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:17:41 PM EST
    ...Trumps highest poll numbers among republicans is in regards to 'I would never vote for him.'  Which remains around 59%.  LINK(page 9)  The next runner up is Christie at 37%.  Everyone else is below 25%.

    Trump has a ceiling on his popularity, and while I don't think it will be at 41%, it will never be enough republicans or Hispanics to even make it competitive.

    Parent

    Trump is serving as the (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 01:34:57 PM EST
    canary in the mineshaft of 2016 Republicanism.  And, the canary is singing beautiful music to their ears.  While that canary will inevitably implode, it will not be for the tunes--for the volume.  The music has always been a part of each and every Republican candidate, but Trump's canary has taught them that sotto voce is passe. They have stepped forward to  inherit the windbag and be as one.

    After all, Jeb has now surpassed Trump and made Mitten's "47 percent and takers" claim seem quaint,  with his "Americans need to work longer hours and through their productivity gain more income for their families."  

    Or, Jeb's blatant anti-intellecualism in his "..this guy--this president, Secretary Clinton and Secretary Kerry--when someone disagrees with their nuanced approach, where it's all kind of so sophisticated it makes no sense.  You know what I'm saying--big syllable words  and lots of fancy conferences and meetings--but we're not leading, that creates chaos, it creates a more dangerous world."  

    Yes, big words, complete sentences, and meetings make a more dangerous world.   Republicans want little words, like bombs, understandable  sentences like: cut food stamps for the poor, and frugal meetings at his new home on Daddy Bush's Kennebunkport oceanfront estate.   Keep it simple, it is a simple world. And, cast no aspersions on the American asparagus.


    Parent

    But his numbers are high enough to (none / 0) (#68)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:20:27 PM EST
    possibly dampen enthusiasm for whoever really gets nominated.

    I mean, how do you get excited about Scott Walker when Donald is your truthteller??

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:34:19 PM EST
    that's the rub. Unless another Republican picks up the mantle of Trump there's going to be serious disappointment.

    Parent
    Actually Scott Walker is the one I see that is (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:38:36 PM EST
    craven enough to do it.

    Parent
    Ted Cruz (none / 0) (#72)
    by Zorba on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:46:30 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#74)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:52:57 PM EST
    agree, Walker will pick up the slack when and if Trump flames out.

    Parent
    For the love of .... money. (none / 0) (#73)
    by christinep on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 12:51:19 PM EST
    One of the saddest sociological studies that I actually remember from years ago (circa 1970s?) had to do with a certain percentage of individuals without means/$$$$ wanting to be like and aspiring to be those with means/$$$$.  That study included findings that--for example--receptionists in doctors' offices identified more with the doctors than the other lesser paid staff; and, that receptionists/secretaries in top business offices identified more with the company executives situation than those of the non-management staff; and, that representatives from the lower economic class in the South identified more with whites that had more $$$$ than themselves than they identified with lower paid )and similarly situated) Blacks. Etc.

    In recent years, an example of playing on the $$$$ fears and envies of white voters has been deftly demonstrated by the craven Governor Walker in Wisconsin.  When he drove the wedge between public employee unions and other union members, he played on a strong, deep envy when $$$$$ can be king ... and, when people will follow the money.  

    I believe that Trump is playing to that not-so-complex set of attitudes--greed mixed with envy-- among his present supporters.  While the "ego" or whatever plays a role, there is an aspect of dumb-like-a-fox that energizes his torrent of I'm-so-rich bravado that relates to strategy.  IMO, that strategy starts with understanding that a sizeable portion of the very conservative voters whom he seeks equate $$$$$ with smarts.  That segment also equates $$$$$ with being an outstanding businessmen ... and, further, that segment equates the mythical top-down business with knowing how to run a strong government.  It is the old "what is good for business is good for the country" carried too far ... see, e.g., the periodic attempts by conservative Repubs to privatize almost everything but the Dept. of Defense.

    Add to that: If Trump convinces a sizeable conservative segment that he is good-for-the-country because he has big bucks (and all that means to them), he could stand out as the go-to rightwing favorite in the early primaries.  BTW, at that point if not before, the Repub big financiers will be forced to dump a load of $$$$$ themselves to undermine his claim(s).  Ultimately, the history of that party's primary maneuverings, say that he will be pushed aside.  

    Whatever happens, I wish for a Perot-type repeat on Trump's part.  What an absurdly rewarding fest that would be ... for Democrats all the way around.

    Parent

    Police Union Contracts Comparative Study (none / 0) (#57)
    by Palli on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 10:09:48 AM EST
    A comparative study of municipal police Union contracts has been initiated. If anyone has access to these documents from American cities please contact: http://www.checkthepolice.org.
    There is a list of major focus contracts on the site.

    There is a goldmine of Law Enforcement data & documents that should be available to the public for our informed consent to be governed.

    For example: St Louis Police Officers do not wear body cameras. Union strongly objects. Is it in the contract?

    Interesing project (none / 0) (#83)
    by sj on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 02:16:28 PM EST
    I recently read that one of the major newspapers (NYT maybe?) was going to start tracking the stats on shooting of civilians by LEO. I looked briefly for the article but didn't find it immediately.

    All this extra work because police departments have put so much energy into remaining unaccountable.

    Parent

    The Guardian posts a daily count (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Palli on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 04:28:30 PM EST
    The most recent (5:20 pm) number is 607 people killed by law enforcement this year.

    http://www.theguardian.com/thecounted  

    Parent

    Thank you (none / 0) (#97)
    by sj on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 04:51:37 PM EST
    yes, I think this is what I was looking for. I hadn't seen the site yet, just heard it was coming. I think this is great work. My only quibble is that looking at the synopsis of any victim returns you to the top of the web sit.

    Parent
    Other sources for Deaths by Law Enforcement (none / 0) (#95)
    by Palli on Mon Jul 13, 2015 at 04:45:27 PM EST
    Washington Post data offers a different number & uses different criteria
    http://tinyurl.com/WaPodeathbycop

    The count compiled by citizen journalists:
    http://www.fatalencounters.org
    http://killedbypolice.net