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Monday Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 11:41:15 AM EST
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Sorry, doing lawyer things.

Open Thread.

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    Monday Open Thread | 222 comments (222 topical)
    I'll open with (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 12:08:47 PM EST
    ...a statement I read on another blog.

    "Nobody will win the Republican nomination. The Republican candidate will be the one who doesn't lose it."

    Or (none / 0) (#2)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 12:28:10 PM EST
    The Republican nomination will follow Iowa by going off the deep end. Here are the top 3 in the latest Iowa GOP poll out today by Monmouth:

    Trump 23%
    Carson 23%
    Fiorina 10%

    Parent

    I saw a Carson bumper sticker yesterday (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:41:48 PM EST
    The better vote, the more informed vote, is Deez Nutz!

    Parent
    Sorry...Candidate Deez Nuts (none / 0) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:46:59 PM EST


    Parent
    Easy to see why Ben Carson (none / 0) (#27)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:17:45 PM EST
    runs so well with Republicans.  What may seem crazy --not so much with this crowd:   "No war on women, there may be a war on what's inside of women.."  (no clarification needed, perfectly clear, it is just the internal anatomy that is being warred against. So it is OK).   "Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery, worse than World War II, the Great Depression, or 9/11."   (yes, giving Americans health care is easily worse than any horror of history). And, who better to reflect this thinking, "  there is no racial injustice, conflict is just the nature of people."    Carson/Gohmert--2016,  'Asparagus a day keeps the psychiatrist away."

    Parent
    Why Ben Carson Is Surging: (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:01:08 PM EST
    CSM

    Intriguing. "Blacker than Obama" [raised in Detroit not Hawaii and mother isn't "white"], has done fetal tissue research, against abortion and same sex marriage. And the GOP can counter the accusation the party is racist.

    Parent

    Why Iowa? (none / 0) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:45:19 PM EST
    A question for Republicans? Is Iowa for Sale?  Some Iowa Republicans fear  that their wholesome, deep-fried butter stick eating voters may feel that their image is tarnished.  

    After the sordid jump of Kent Sorenson, chair of Michele Bachmans Iowa campaign, to Ron Paul's bid in 2011, giving rise to Sorenson's pleading guilty in federal court for taking $70,000, and the charging of three former Paul aides for violating federal laws, including Jessie Benton, a Paul relative by marriage, a new head-spinning mount/dismount has gained headlines.

    Rick Perry's Iowa campaign manager, Sam Clovis, quit the Perry campaign (which was broke) and quickly went to work for Trump as national campaign chair.  Clovis needed a job which is understandable, but this is the same Sam Clovis who just recently said Trump " had no moral center,"   Clovis had much to say about Trump--none flattering.

    Trump's discounting of McCain because he was captured, was greeted by Clovis saying he was offended by a man who sought and gained four deferments to avoid the draft and has never served this nation a day.."  And, since Trump has not asked for God's forgiveness, Clovis said he has "no foundation in Christ."  

    Gee, it is so confusing, last week, it was Perry, now Trump.  And, Perry said Trump was a "cancer"   What is a poor Republican in Iowa to do?   Well, my advice for voters everywhere, outside of Iowa, would be to ignore Iowa.  Or, at least, put it into perspective.

    Parent

    There was a lot of publicity (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:01:24 PM EST
    a few years ago about Koch money behind a candidate in a local race in IA. He lost. Iowans are wary.

    Parent
    What do you think? Would building a wall across (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 12:29:10 PM EST
    our border w/Canada thwart Democrats from fleeing north if the GOP candidate becomes our Pres.?

    I think a 10 foot high sea wall (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 12:39:15 PM EST
    on the east coast is needed.

    Parent
    And then, there's this, from (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:19:26 PM EST
    Andy Borowitz:

    As America's bridges, roads, and other infrastructure dangerously deteriorate from decades of neglect, there is a mounting sense of urgency that it is time to build a giant wall.

    Across the U.S., whose rail system is a rickety antique plagued by deadly accidents, Americans are increasingly recognizing that building a wall with Mexico, and possibly another one with Canada, should be the country's top priority.

    Harland Dorrinson, the executive director of a Washington-based think tank called the Center for Responsible Immigration, believes that most Americans favor the building of border walls over extravagant pet projects like structurally sound freeway overpasses.

    "The estimated cost of a border wall with Mexico is five billion dollars," he said. "We could easily blow the same amount of money on infrastructure repairs and have nothing to show for it but functioning highways."

    [...]

    While some think that America's declining infrastructure is a national-security threat, Dorrinson strongly disagrees. "If immigrants somehow get over the wall, the condition of our bridges and roads will keep them from getting very far," he said.

    Hard to believe it's satire, isn't it?

    Parent

    That's not high enough either... (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:12:38 PM EST
    you and fishcamp better get crackin' on an Arc, Noah.

    Parent
    Not near high enough (none / 0) (#28)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:18:22 PM EST
    A bike path I used to ride as a kid down near Biscayne Bay was a foot under water when I ran near it last week. Those dastardly Europeans will be able to float over a ten foot Atlantic wall and have their anchor babies here someday.

    Parent
    I knew that climate change... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:30:12 PM EST
    and rising oceans was a leftist European liberal plot to float their pregnant mistresses over here so we can feed their bastard children, so they can smoke cigarettes and drink wine and make love in non-biblical ways all day and night.

    Thanks Obama;)  

    Parent

    - and the downside? (none / 0) (#39)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:17:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Scott Walker's characterization that (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:14:40 PM EST
    a Canadian border wall was a "legitimate issue" to be discussed prompted this from Charlie Pierce:

    Leave aside the basic impracticality of the entire idea - What the hell are you going to do about that part of the border that runs through Lake Superior? Submarine nets? Sonar? Volunteer muskie fishermen with AK's in their boats? Yikes. Forget I said that last part. - and concentrate solely on the fact that, what Walker believes makes this a "legitimate issue for us to look at" is the fact that "some people" at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire brought it up to him. I will pay anyone a shiny buffalo nickel if they will show up at a future town hall meeting in New Hampshire and ask Scott Walker if we should fire sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads into synchronous low earth orbit to prevent undocumented immigrants from Zontar from entering the country. It probably would be declared a "legitimate issue for us to look at."

    (And this is not even to mention the fact that, apparently, Walker is opposed to people crossing our Canadian border but has no problem at all with the world's dirtiest fossil fuel being pumped across that same border and through the richest farmland in the United States. Tar sands don't kill people. People kill people.)

    I hope Walker doesn't read Charlie's column - it might give him some ideas...

    Parent

    All we need in Lake Superior (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:42:12 PM EST
    are genetically modified freshwater Great White Boat Eating Sharks

    Parent
    I've been hopping fences and walls... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:50:45 PM EST
    since I could walk...fences with razor wire even. Directly behind my childhood backyard was a factory with a razor wire fence...me and my crew of rapscallions were not deterred.  There isn't a wall high enough to overcome the human spirit.

    Give me land, lots of land, under starry skies above...Don't fence me in.

    Besides, the Great Wall of Fear is old hat, Chris Christie wants to track visitors to our country like UPS Packages.  


    "Thank you for calling ICE.  What would you like to do today?  To track a human being, press 1.

    Ok, track a human being.  Please enter or say your tracking number after the tone.  

    I'm sorry, I didn't catch that.  Please enter or say your tracking number after the tone.

    Thank you.  Your target was last scanned at the 7-11 buying milk and bread at 123 Main St. at 1:53 E.S.T. on August 30 2015.

    What would you like to do now?  To dispatch a surveillance drone to the last tracked location, press 1.  To speak to a Storm Trooper, press 2."  



    Parent
    Notice how Christie, Trump (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:55:00 PM EST
    and their talking parrots never suggests how the people who send jobs out of the country should be punished..

    Parent
    You're funny... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:10:55 PM EST
    Punished?  That's patriotism.  

    "I pledge allegiance, to the note, that bears a pic of Ben Franklin.  And to the republic, from which it came, f*ck you pay me."

    Parent

    I still remember Al Gore explaining (none / 0) (#30)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:26:13 PM EST
    what a marvelous thing it would be for our workers to be able to buy such inexpensive things made in China..

    You know it's getting bad out there when the top Democrat sounds like a self-serving WSJ Op-Ed..

     

    Parent

    And his partner in crime Bill Clinton... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:47:11 PM EST
    with that NAFTA mess.

    Divide and economically conquer...a tale as old as time.

    With a working persons party like this, who needs enemies!  And pay no attention to that crotchety old clown Bernie Sanders...he's just a distraction.

    Parent

    I hate (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:07:45 PM EST
    to tell you but companies were leaving the country for years before NAFTA came about. At one time all the clothing mills in New England moved south for cheaper labor. Then after that they have been moving around for years. At one point in time it was the Dominican Republic. Then it was places in South America. Now it's China and India.

    Parent
    That's just the way it is.. (none / 0) (#61)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:02:54 PM EST
    Some things'll never change..

    The question is, does the investor class here have any civic responsibility over and above parasitizing it's temporary host-nation?

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:10:18 PM EST
    that's a different argument. The problem is not trade policies per se so much as the business model most of these companies use. As long as they continue to use the cheap labor model this is going to happen. This is going to take some thinking outside of the box and getting people to realize that employees are valuable resources and not expendable.

    Parent
    No doubt... (none / 0) (#88)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:09:07 PM EST
    NAFTA just made it worse.

    The problem will exist until people have the same freedom to go where the getting is good, same as the freedom money has. Till then money will go where the people are desperate and trapped. And brave people will continue to break unjust laws to escape that trap.

    Don't forget Haiti and all the fine work the Clinton Foundation did in building sweatshops there.

    Parent

    You are so right (none / 0) (#173)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 01:40:10 AM EST
    When I moved to San Diego I worked for a very high tech company that made parts for IBM,HP,Raytheon,etc. Everyone of those computers needed many  many parts. This was early 80's. General Dynamics and SAIC were the biggest employers, oh, and the military. I did not know a thing about building parts in Mexico. I was a number cruncher. When you are a manufacturer of labor intensive products, you look for the most reasonable labor. Do you remember the first PC's price? $3k+ for the IBM. We had several plants in Ireland as Ireland offered you grants if you put in plants there. Basically they built the plants for use of so many years. But Mexico was the good deal with ideal locations to the border. There was no Nafta, etc. I believe Reagan was POTUS and Deukmejian a GOP governor of California. Then the 90's came along and all the manufacturing went from Mexico to China. And this was under Bush Sr before Clinton. People have such a short memory of who was in charge when it comes to Republicans. When Clinton came to office and they closed down certain military bases, companies like GD just moved their plants out of San Diego. The CEO said, what do you expect, that we should just make refrigerators? They actually leveled these plants because they were in high real estate zones. No thought was given to the labor force in the city. So yes, you are so right about products being built in Mexico long before NAFTA. And in hindsight, it would have been better being built there than in China. And if you had a job in Mexico there was no reason to leave home looking for work. That might sound callus, but the people I worked with who had me to their homes in Mexico were the most generous and proud I have met. And, they would come across the border not to work but to buy products from here. In 2000 it was time for me to cross back to the NE. Colder here but I do love the country.  

    Parent
    I don't remember what Bernie said (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:19:55 PM EST
    but I do know that Ross Perot opposed it... I think he was the one who coined... "That vast sucking sound..."

    Parent
    This was in answer to GA6 (none / 0) (#174)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 01:42:08 AM EST
    Sorry Kdog, we disagree on this one on NAFTA.

    Parent
    Dammit, kdog, now I've got (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Peter G on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:53:11 PM EST
    an earworm of Cole Porter (ref #17). Although I readily acknowledge that it could be worse.

    Parent
    kdog, I get your point. Walls only work (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:31:13 PM EST
    when you have guards to watch them.

    BTW - I take it you use a computer and talk to customers. Have you considered that your job could be done by someone in India with the picking/shipping done by people who the authorities don't know are here?

    The small town I retired to use to have 6 factories that employed about 7000 people. It now has 2 that employ about 1200 people... The local schools are near collapse, downtown looks like 1929 and much of the old middle class homes section is bad shape.

    But it does have 2 Mexican restaurants and a Walmart.....

    Parent

    Jim, have you considered (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:07:53 PM EST
    that for ten years here you've been unashamedly shilling for the side that continually crows that what unfettered market forces do is always for the greater good?

    Parent
    No jondee (none / 0) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:30:45 PM EST
    That is not correct and you are just making things up.

    Parent
    Remind Me... (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:49:38 AM EST
    ...what wall actually kept people out/in in all of human history ?  

    But Trump has the magical wall Mexico will fund...

    It would be nice if the idiots that brought us the trillion dollar war that would pay for itself would learn from their mistakes and not get sold another 'someone else will pay for it' fiasco that has zero chance of succeeding.

    Parent

    Funny you should mention that.... (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:01:29 PM EST
    One of our large accounts outsourced their purchasing dept. to India...they have no clue what they are purchasing, and our manufacturers are making a killing in restock fees because of it.  RGA after RGA...lol. Whether it's a net loss/gain to the greedy f#ck who owns the place I don't know, but it's comical to witness...and drives his local employees bonkers.

    One manufacturer we rep tried outsourcing their tech support to India...didn't last a year. Sales plummeted...it might fly in some industries, not water heaters. No plumber in the USA wants to troubleshoot an electronic ignition heater that won't ignite with some schmuck with a script in India who's never seen our product.

    As for my gig, they are welcome to try (came here looking for a job, leave here looking for a job) but I doubt it would work...local reps gotta be local.
    And I'd feel bad for the poor slob in India who had to deal with some of the winners I deal with daily;)

    Parent

    Wisconsin media are calling it (none / 0) (#160)
    by Towanda on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 09:51:29 PM EST
    . . . "the Poutine Curtain."

    (Poutine is popular in Wisconsin, not that Walker knows any history -- or he would know that the state, for more than a century before it became part of the U.S., was part of Nouvelle France.  And many of us are descendants of French Canadians.)

    A few more national media finally appear to be figuring out that Walker is a pandering fool.  

    Parent

    Oh (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 07:01:45 AM EST
    my that is freaking hysterical.

    Parent
    In "Heck of a Job," (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:05:42 PM EST
    Paul Krugman (NYT August 31), offers a lesson of Katrina--image and reality of Republican politicians.  After 9/ll Bush posed as a strong leader who kept us safe, so long as he keep talking tough about terrorists.  But, he didn't. The domestic disaster of New Orleans unveiled the cronyism and incompetence of his administration for all to see. It only took owning or having access to a television set.

    Political poseurs with nothing to offer besides bluster can fool many people into being strong leaders--something to note for 2016.  And, yes, Dr. Krugman is talking about Trump, but also, Christie, whose tough guy act played well until it didn't.  Now, he is just pathetic, says Krugman. "he did not change, he just came into focus."

    And Jeb!  What happened to him? asks Krugman. The best governor ever, the smart Bush.  He never existed.  As can be seen by his campaign.  And, then there is Scott Walker, the man to watch.  And, the brilliant Bobby Jindal.

    Just  "a cult of personality built around undeserving politicians."   "Someday, Trump will have his Katrina moment when voters see him for what he is. but don't count on it happening anytime soon." opines Krugman.
    .

    In case you have forgetten (2.00 / 1) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:12:38 PM EST
    The Demo mayor wouldn't call for evacuation until it was too late...hundreds of school buses which could have been used weren't, the governor wouldn't cooperate with the Feds and the screaming about the Superdome was all lies.

    Here, educate yourself.

    Link

    Parent

    Educate yourself (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:00:10 PM EST
    Pilots were ready to leave Ft Rucker and stage in Mobile when the Bush administration told them to stand down. Everyone was shocked. Active duty had been dropping food and diapers and baby formula in the midst of extreme weather events inside the United States for years. They had been picking up the sick and injured and taking them to hospitals during such events for years too.

    The reasoning the Bush administration gave for why active duty military and the largest rotary wing fleet in the military would stand down was that the Iraq War planners felt committing to Katrina would interfere with their unhampered war effort.

    When everything went completely to hell and they had to call Honore in, he basically executed the plan that those who cared and were at Ft Rucker proposed, with staging in Mobile.

    Parent

    Of course people were quite dead by then (none / 0) (#84)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:00:45 PM EST


    Parent
    Approximately 1,833 of them ... (none / 0) (#122)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:26:59 PM EST
    ... were in New Orleans alone, although truth be told, we will probably never know the exact number of lives lost along the Gulf Coast that week. As some local residents have noted, there were whole families who were simply swept away in the maelstrom, with nobody left to report them missing.

    Parent
    It makes my hair feel like it's (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:55:06 PM EST
    Standing on end, and tears well in my eyes remembering. Some things I will never be able to deal with.

    Parent
    The Bush administration's initial nonresponse ... (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:41:59 PM EST
    ... to Hurricane Katrina stands as one of the truly great horror shows of our adult lifetimes, because it demonstrated conclusively what can happen when those who profess an obvious disdain for government are actually placed in charge of our governance. While it's an experience which I hope to never see repeated personally, sadly, there are far too many who live in official denial of what happened for clearly political reasons.

    Parent
    Bush (none / 0) (#45)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:31:59 PM EST
    had the full force of the federal government behind him many more resources than either the mayor or the governor had at that time but he chose to sit around with his thumb up his butt and let a horse lawyer run the show for FEMA. I'm sorry but the GOP is not going to get over that embarrassment for quite a while.

    Parent
    The only people who ... (none / 0) (#128)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:54:05 PM EST
    ... escaped New Orleans as Katrina approached were the people who could actually afford to leave and had the personal means to do so. No effort at all was made to help everyone else -- the working poor, the indigent, the needy and the sick -- who were simply left to fend for themselves as best they could.

    The sheer size and power of that approaching hurricane alone, relative to the region it was about to decimate, undoubtedly should've clued those back in Washington that local state and municipal authorities would be very quickly overwhelmed by both the extraordinary urgency of the situation, and the obvious magnitude of the effort needed to evacuate an entire city of 500,000 from harm's way, amongst others.

    Yet, the Bush administration inexplicably decided to stand down and do nothing, to their everlasting infamy and shame. And so, the impending natural disaster that was due to occur anyway was compounded manifold into an unspeakable tragedy by an almost willful neglect.

    It was an act of incompetence and dereliction so stunning in its breadth and scope that it likely bordered on criminal. In the end, even the normally accommodating folks at Fox News were compelled to scream at George W. Bush to do something, in the face of the obvious horror which was unfolding before everyone's eyes.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Oops. Wrong link. Sorry. (none / 0) (#137)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:26:56 PM EST
    Here's what I intended to link.

    Parent
    The Bush administration tried but was blocked (none / 0) (#143)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:57:41 PM EST
    by the state.

    Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday (8/27/05 - 32 hours before landfall), the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

    The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

    WaPost

    You see Donald, the state must request help. The Demos in charge were so eat up in politics they wouldn't.

    And who can forget all those buses just setting there. Empty while the mayor dithered.

    At 5:00 PM EDT,(Sat 8/27 about 36 hours before Katrina hit) New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin announced a state of emergency and a called for a voluntary evacuation. He added that he would stick with the state's evacuation plan and not order a mandatory evacuation until 30 hours before the expected landfall.

    What a shame. How criminal.

    Parent

    Nobody here is saying ... (none / 0) (#153)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:52:06 PM EST
    ... that Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin don't deserve their own respective criticisms for their mishandling of the initial response. But the Bush administration had a moral and ethical obligation to take charge in the face of the obvious looming threat posed by both Katrina's size and its power, which had been amazing everyone well before the storm even first made landfall.

    We all knew that this was the mother of all monster hurricanes, the biggest and most potent in a generation. Yet for whatever their reasons offered in retrospect, the president and his staff stood down and failed to act, and then continued to do so even as the levees broke and the city of New Orleans flooded. The guy even flew off to Arizona to attend a political fundraiser, rather than attend to the emergency!

    We all saw and remember what happened, Jim, and we all remember how President Bush and his cabinet had to literally be shamed into action. And given the bipartisan nature of the criticism that was leveled at him from practically all quarters, it's quite obvious that partisanship had nothing to do with it.

    George W. Bush proved that week to be every bit as ignorant, incompetent, reckless and reality-challenged, as even his most vociferous of opponents had heretofore accused him of being in the years prior to Katrina.

    That hurricane ripped the blinders off a lot of Americans, and for the first time they finally saw Bush for what he truly was, a clueless phuque who had absolutely no business being in the Oval Office. A mere handful of words spoken on national TV served to reduce his arrogant swagger to a pathetic lame-duck irrelevance -- "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

    And no amount of post-event revisionism on your part will ever change that.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Let me see (none / 0) (#204)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 11:02:53 AM EST
    But the Bush administration had a moral and ethical obligation to take charge in the face of the obvious looming threat posed by both Katrina's size and its power, which had been amazing everyone well before the storm even first made landfall
    .

    Did you really read my comment?

    Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday (8/27/05 - 32 hours before landfall), the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

    How do you suggest that Bush should have done that?? Air strike or just an armored attack?

    Who is to blame? Bush for trying to take charge and fix, or the Demos?

    Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

    Good Lord!!!!! The locals rejected it because of pure politics. They didn't want take the chance that they might be blamed. I have seen CYA's but that is a most damning example.

    Think, Donald. If your claim that Bush's actions could have saved people is true ....then the Demos's actions to refuse help killed people.

    And while FEMA wasn't perfect, the response to Katrina was faster than the response to Andrew. Proving that bureaucracies are slow learners, but they do learn. Naval assets, hospital ships and helicopters followed close behind Katrina and were rescuing people within hours of Katrina passing.

    I hate to pop your bubble but helicopters don't operate well in very high winds.

    Katrina was deadly. Its winds affected people well up the Mississippi flyway, hundreds of miles away. I lost two trees myself and another remains bent at a 60 degree angle. Local resources were taxed and communication between responders was hampered by a lack of a common frequency plan and a fractured command and control system made worse by LA's playing CYA games.

    Parent

    Gee whiz, maybe you (none / 0) (#53)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:42:55 PM EST
    actually have something.  After all, President Bush did win an award regarding Katrina, and as he battled criticism over the incompetent response, his mother also liked what he did--having his back describing his work as a success. "the evacuees were under-privileged anyway, so this is working out quite well for them."  

    Parent
    Nobody (none / 0) (#62)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:04:33 PM EST
    has ever suggested that the whole chain of government failed from top to bottom, but Bush's cavalier, clueless reaction was a spectacular example of dereliction of duty. Almost as bad as his "ok, you covered your ass" moment.

    BTW your link is pure fiction.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:07:45 PM EST
    I agree with Krugman. Sooner or later something is going to happen with Trump but it might not be until after he loses a general election.

    Parent
    Per executive order, and in advance of ... (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:33:59 PM EST
    ... his upcoming trip to Alaska, has President Obama has restored the original native Alaskan name of Denali, which at 20,237 feet tall is North America's highest peak. Predictably and tiresomely, Republicans are already criticizing Obama for removing the name of Mt. McKinley as an act of executive overreach.

    But the actual fact of the matter is that the mountain has always been called Denali by most Alaskans, native and non-native alike. The mountain and its vicinity were designated a national Park by Congress in February 1917, but only on condition that both be officially renamed after our nation's most imperialistic president, which has been a particular sore point with Alaska's native peoples.

    With the passage of the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act in 1980, the name of Mt. McKinley National Park was officially changed to Denali National Park and Preserve, when its parklands were combined with those of surrounding Denali National Monument. However, the U.S. Board on Geographic Names refused to recognize any such change in the name of the mountain itself, and so it officially remained Mt. McKinley until today's executive order.

    Kudos to Obama for doing the right thing.

    And you haven't the slightest (1.00 / 1) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:16:16 PM EST
    understanding why Trump is winning.

    I bet he could have hugged Obama's neck when he heard about this latest bit of arrogant stupidity.  

    Parent

    He might be winning the (none / 0) (#43)
    by CST on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:28:21 PM EST
    Republican nomination.

    He won't be the next president.

    There's more of us than there are of you.

    Parent

    No, there's not. (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:33:32 PM EST


    Parent
    wanna bet? (5.00 / 0) (#49)
    by CST on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:35:27 PM EST
    He's losing every single head-to-head poll.  You've lost the last two presidential elections against a black guy with the middle name Hussein who has been painted as an evil dictator by everyone on the right wing.

    You can lie, but the numbers won't.

    Parent

    Fool me twice (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:55:10 PM EST
    same on me....

    You ain't gonna do it again.

    Parent

    Bet you we will (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 07:18:36 AM EST
    Literally ... I'll bet you.

    C'mon, Jim.  You sound so confident, and you like to gamble, soooo ...

    Parent

    even the republican (none / 0) (#50)
    by CST on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:37:48 PM EST
    house and senate lost the popular vote in the last election.

    So while you may have the seats in congress - you certainly don't have the voter numbers.  And gerrymandering won't help win presidential elections.

    Parent

    The number of mid term voters, (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:58:32 PM EST
    I will guess, ks always less than a presidential election.

    Both McCain and Romney were not popular with the Repub base. But even so, had as many Repubs voted for Romney as they did McCain, Romney would have won.

    The real question is, what else will Obama do to help get the base out??

    Parent

    I can't (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:33:01 PM EST
    speak for anybody else here but I know the reason why. It's called "white power".

    Parent
    So that is why the Deputy was assassinated?? (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:35:05 PM EST
    You gonna take some blame for that?

    BTW - I see that no one around here has even mentioned it.

    Parent

    Oh, yes (none / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:38:14 PM EST
    Fox News lying to you again. so what else is new? And you are once again totally missing the point. Pointing that kind of thing out is what white power people do.

    Jim it's never going to be 1950 again where you're going to be on the top of the heap because of the color of your skin. Where you get special privileges because of the color of your skin and everybody else knew "their place".

    Parent

    The video lies??? Really??? (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:53:03 PM EST
    Even for you that is a bit much.

    Surveillance video from the gas station showed Goforth, 47, had just come out of a convenience store after he had pumped gas and that Miles got out of his red truck, she said.

    "He runs up behind Deputy Goforth and puts the gun to the back of his head and shoots. Deputy Goforth hits the ground and then he continues to unload his gun, shooting repeatedly into the back of Deputy Goforth," Anderson said.

    Goforth was shot 15 times and a witness saw the shooting, Anderson said. She said the shell casings match the .40-caliber Smith and Wesson handgun found at Miles' home.

    Link

    Do police lives matter?

    And I missed out on all those special deals and so did the rest of the poor people of all colors.

    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by vicndabx on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:30:18 PM EST
    Was talking to my wife about this very attitude.

    The point of BLM is not that any life matters less. The hashtag reppresents the idea that there are issues faced in black communities that are not faced elsewhere.

    Advocacy for specific issues is just that. I'd think you would understand that.  That's what our representative democracy is about.

    Parent

    I have no problem with single (1.00 / 2) (#148)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:20:13 PM EST
    issue advocacy but when the chant is

    Pigs in a blanket - Fry'em like bacon

    It appears that the advocacy is to kill cops.

    Parent

    C'mon Jim (none / 0) (#163)
    by vicndabx on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 10:34:37 PM EST
    I agree the choice of words is a poor one.  Surely you researched the chant further and discovered statements that confirmed what they actually meant. No need to infer.

    The meaning is police should be subject to the same scrutiny as those they police.

    Parent

    How (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:11:43 PM EST
    is this different then this or this The police are facing unprovoked attacks from many directions.

    There is a creeping anarchy spilling into our streets, with the police sometimes fighting it, sometimes contributing to it and sometimes paying the ultimate price for it.

    It's a little late to start pointing fingers at anybody for the random acts of violence that has enveloped us.

     

    Parent

    Quit selling guns to every (none / 0) (#99)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:25:24 PM EST
    homicidal maniac that can pony up the dough. How about that?

    Parent
    Please explain why Trump is (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:13:40 PM EST
    winning amongst the GOP candidates so far.

    Parent
    No, let's please don't. (none / 0) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:07:29 PM EST
    This is about Denali, not Donald Trump.

    Parent
    The parent of my comment (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:40:32 PM EST
    is about Trump.

    Parent
    To answer your question (none / 0) (#141)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:32:40 PM EST
    Trump is leading among potential GOP voters because Republicans have come to realize that their GOP politicians aren't very good.

    Parent
    Becuase Trump voices (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:15:48 PM EST
    the racist, bigoted and misogynist attitudes that predominate in the Republican Party's base.

    Parent
    Why does Obama hate America (none / 0) (#13)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:44:35 PM EST
    Coming to a Fox news broadcast near you.

    Parent
    Now the Pres... (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:54:17 PM EST
    is just f8cking with them, and I love it!

    Another 16 months of this please!  And don't forget the 500,000 presidential pardons.

    Parent

    Now, to get rid of the name Mount Rushmore (none / 0) (#16)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:49:54 PM EST
    and go back to the original Six Grandfathers. And while they're at it, get out the dynamite and sandblasters..

    Parent
    FYI: The little tunnel behind Mt. Rushmore (none / 0) (#21)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:56:01 PM EST
    is the George Dubya Bush monument.

    FYI.  Little known.

    Parent

    They should make it a vertical tunnel (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:08:19 PM EST
    and put a little seat over it.

    Parent
    lol. What you meant and what I meant (none / 0) (#188)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 09:41:58 AM EST
    are intimately connected.

    Parent
    I prefer that we leave both Mt. Rushmore ... (none / 0) (#118)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:14:48 PM EST
    ... and Stone Mountain standing, so that future generations of Americans can likely see them exactly for what they truly are -- misguided monuments to our own self-righteous sanctimony, derived at the expense of mother Nature herself.

    Parent
    Kudos to the Pres. (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:16:54 PM EST
    But I must confess I had never heard of the term "Athabascan people."  

    It's interesting that McKinley was the nominee, not the elected Pres. when the gold-standard loving prospector "discovered" and named the mountain. But Boehner asserts "McKinley" was chosen to honor McKinley's legacy as Pres.  

    BTW, the NYT comments re the GOP protest are very amusing. Such as: let them name Ohio for McKinley!

    Parent

    Campbell Hill in Ohio (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:29:21 PM EST
    Soon to be named Mt McKinley.

    in Ohio, Republicans have started building a brick wall to keep immigrants from scaling the hill

    Parent

    LOL! (none / 0) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:18:08 PM EST
    Somehow, and this is truly sad, I can see them actually doing something stupid like that.

    Parent
    McKinley's mountainless legacy: (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:11:37 PM EST
    Washington Post

    Parent
    I've never understood how ... (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:14:43 PM EST
    ... a white man could "discover" a mountain in 1897 that native people have known about for a millenium. It's like the notion of Captain James Cook as the great explorer and navigator who "discovered" Hawaii, when the Polynesian people had been regularly voyaging across the Pacific to there and elsewhere for well over 1,000 years.

    Further, it's not as Denali is some obscure geographic point off the beaten path. the mountain is so massive that it can be seen from Anchorage, which is 150 miles away. And if you doubt that, then please check out this webcam from Denali Towers in Anchorage, because it's a bright, beautiful and clear day up there and there it is, rising in the distance.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The more important question (none / 0) (#52)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:41:06 PM EST
    What does Sarah Palin think? Damn it, Obama did something Alaskans reverted to long ago and the Republicans in Alaska are very happy today.

    "For decades, Alaskans and members of our congressional delegation have been fighting for Denali to be recognized by the federal government by its true name. I'm gratified that the president respected this." - Sen. Dan Sullivan, R-Alaska

    "I'd like to thank the president for working with us to achieve this significant change to show honor, respect, and gratitude to the Athabascan people of Alaska," Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska


    Parent
    Donald, if you weren't so busy looking (none / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:43:31 PM EST
    for something to apologize for in regards to European culture even you would understand.

    e.g. Columbus discovered America because his culture didn't know it existed. Some white guy discovered Mt  McKinley because no one from his culture knew about it.

    Think of someone telling you, "Hey, there's this great restaurant over at the yacht basin that I just discovered."

    Parent

    There never was one "European Culture".. (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:26:15 PM EST
    some of the Spanish worked the Indians to death in the mines, while Spanish Dominican Brothers protested the appalling conditions and disgusting treatment the Indians endured..

    Parent
    Okie Dokie (none / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:46:37 PM EST
    The Spanish culture was different from the English... that doesn't change my point.

    Parent
    You do not know (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 08:37:01 AM EST
    anything about Spanish culture.   You said that you visited "Latin America" when you went to the Bahamas.....

    And, it does seem that Trump is the perfect xenophobic candidate for you.

    Parent

    My point was that there wasn't one Spanish culture (none / 0) (#109)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:56:13 PM EST
    or one English culture..

    As upsetting as that reality may be for you one-religion, one-language, one-party, one-race folks..

    Parent

    If you've ever seen Roland Joffe's film ... (none / 0) (#166)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 12:08:38 AM EST
    ... "The Mission," its plot is based upon some very real history -- namely the Jesuits' ultimately unsuccessful attempt to prevent the brutal subjugation and enslavement of the native Guarani people in South America by Spanish and Portuguese colonial interests during the mid-18th century, which sometimes involved the forced removal of those Jesuits by summary execution.

    The myth of cultural homogeneity is often touted by those persons whose primary goal or desire is the demonization and / or marginalization of entire groups or sub-groups of people, for the former's own perceived personal benefit. Sad to say, it's a tactic which has repeatedly proved successful throughout history.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    De Las Casas (none / 0) (#149)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:21:26 PM EST
    protested the violent conversions of the Conquistadors.  He proposed a peaceful outreach to the K'ekchi Maya.  They had been to fierce to conquer, but De Las Casas won their friendship peacefully.  The land he did this is in the Guatemalan province Alta Verapaz (land of true peace.)  I used to live there.

    Parent
    So what, Jim! (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:44:28 PM EST
    Comparing the renaming of Denali as Mt. McKinley as somehow analogous with someone's restaurant recommendation is truly stupid and inane, even for you.

    And it simply typifies the problem you pose here. You barge headlong into other people's conversations with ad hominem provocations, without every really pausing to actually consider what anyone is actually saying.

    Your mindlessly confrontational behavior, and your generally unpleasant demeanor which accompanies it, serves only to degrade and coarsen the overall quality of the dialogue here. And quite frankly, it's beyond tiresome.

    I've got better things to do than dance to your tune.

    Parent

    Donald, we both know that you see the (none / 0) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:53:37 PM EST
    point and understand why people say Cook discovered Hawaii. And yes, somewhere and sometimes in the past some Polynesian person came back and said, "You guys should see the islands I discovered!"

    The point is that you are so strung up over diversity that everything the Europeans did is bad and evil.

    Guess what. By our standards today they were mean. But they didn't do human sacrifices and they didn't practice ritual cannibalism.

    Parent

    Go burn your cross in someone else's yard. (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:00:55 PM EST


    Parent
    Everything Europeans did.. (none / 0) (#115)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:08:50 PM EST
    Jim, if that ludicrous straw man were any bigger, it would be rampaging through Tokyo..

    You're singing a little wildly there, aren't you, fella?

    Parent

    swinging.. (none / 0) (#117)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:11:33 PM EST
    like Michael Savage, Beck and company..which is probably where you get that sh*te from..

    Parent
    Donald, you like to write about your family (none / 0) (#145)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:12:30 PM EST
    so let me remind you that I saw my father toss a supposed friend out of our home for using the N word when he had been asked not to.

    That took quite a bit of courage in the early '50's.

    That you don't want to discuss the bad things that the Native Americans did is just another demonstration that the Left must always apologize for and blame America.

    No wonder Obama immediately launched his apology tour after being sworn in and can't find it in himself to attack ISIS in frontal and effective manner.

    He is his Mother's sun.

    Parent

    Well, Jim, good for your father. (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 11:37:19 PM EST
    But given the crap you regularly write here, it's long been readily apparent to me that you love to harp incessantly on the awful things which people of color can do to white people, to the near-exclusion of the opposite. Today's been no exception.

    To be sure, some native people's practices of cannibalism were absolutely abhorrent. But really, how is that any worse than, say, the old English custom of drawing and quartering one's enemies, both real and perceived, or burning alive at the stake those persons who were accused of sorcery and witchcraft?

    You impart a wholly false sense of moral superiority when you imply otherwise, through your deliberate omission of comparable facts which fail to meet the standards of your desired narrative. Further, you consistently fail to grasp who was and is in the position to exercise ultimate social control. Newsflash: it's not black people, regardless of the fact that the current president is African-American.

    After all, it wasn't the native peoples of the Congo who slaughtered half the population of Belgium between 1880 and 1910. It wasn't the native kingdoms of Africa which divided the entirety of Europe into respective colonial holding and spheres of influence. And it wasn't African-Americans who enslaved white Southerners. Rather, it was all vice versa.

    That some white people occasionally fall victim to wanton violence perpetrated by people of color, while completely inexcusable, does not therefore mitigate the prevailing circumstances by which the white people of this country continue to freely deny non-white people their humanity and their dignity as fellow human beings.

    It makes one wonder if your preferred focus isn't on suppressing the most superficial aspects of racism, such as calling black people the N-word, while willfully ignoring racism's far more corrosive and potent latent effects, which can otherwise lead people to view entire demographics of "others" with an undue collective suspicion.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Guess them history-learners ain't ... (5.00 / 1) (#220)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 09:39:20 PM EST
    ... doin such a good job in TN.

    Europe's Hypocritical History of Cannibalism

    Early Europeans Practiced Human Sacrifice

    Oops (again!), Jim!

    Parent

    They burned people at the stake (none / 0) (#124)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:27:59 PM EST
    broke them on the rack and expelled all the Jews from Spain..

    Now admittedly, by our standards, it wasn't very civilized, but at least they waited awhile before perpetrating the Holocaust and inventing the atom bomb (top that, Injuns!)

    Parent

    And the Moors were run out also. (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 12:27:16 AM EST


    Parent
    It is not about (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:24:23 PM EST
    apologizing for European culture but honoring Native American culture.

    You poor white guys really feel persecuted, no?

    Parent

    Columbus gets credit (none / 0) (#126)
    by ragebot on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:48:20 PM EST
    for documenting his voyage in a widely understood written language.  He also gets credit for dogged research into previous Viking trips to North America.  There is some reason to believe he actually was on one of the Viking voyages as he mentions things like a bay with 50 foot tides which matches the Bay of Fundy.  Columbus also used Johan Muller's ephemeris to scare the Indians by predicting an eclipse.  He had instruments on board commonly used in conjunction with the ephemeris for navigation.  His log, or at least the best reproduction we have of it, lists some what strange stops that can be explained by planet conjunctions on the dates of those stops.  If the truth be known Columbus was the greatest navigator of his time using the best technology combined with better historical data than anyone else.  As with others of the time he described one harbor as large enough to hold all the ships of Christendom and saw part of his duty as converting non Christians.

    Not taking anything away from the early sailors in the Pacific.  Maybe the best book on the subject is A Song For Satawal

    The early native sailors used songs along the lines of "sail towards the setting sun till the waves break on the port quarter then turn right till you see flying birds and then follow them".  To help remember the song they used a string of different colored and shaped shells.

    But the bottom line is the European sailors around the time of Columbus were developing methods of navigation that allowed them to replicate their voyages and the ability to communicate where they had gone for history, something the Pacific natives really could not do.

    Parent

    Puhleeze (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 01:00:12 AM EST
    But the bottom line is the European sailors around the time of Columbus were developing methods of navigation that allowed them to replicate their voyages and the ability to communicate where they had gone for history, something the Pacific natives really could not do.

    The Polynesians were the greatest navigators who ever sailed a vast and undifferentiated ocean.  They found every speck of land in the Pacific, with the notable exception of the Galapagos.

    The idea that they found every island, and DIDN'T find the Americas is ludicrous.  Chicken bones have been found in Peru that pre-date Columbus.  Chickens are native to southeast Asia.  Sweet potatoes, native to Peru, are now grown in Tahiti showing that the Polynesians were able to bring this new food item back across the Pacific.

    The Chumash Indians of the California coast used fishing and boat building methods not used by any other Native Americans, but which are used by Polynesians.  One cultural similarity could be a coincidence, but two maritime similarities suggest communication.

    Parent

    The early Pacific sailors (none / 0) (#177)
    by ragebot on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 06:42:19 AM EST
    probably did reach the Americas, same for sailors from China.  There is also some DNA evidence that supports Thor Heyedahl's claim that rafts from South America were used to populate islands in the Pacific.  His trip on https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expeditionhttps:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition is well documented.

    But the key to world navigation is rounding the great capes and no one I know of has claimed anyone but Europeans were the first to do that.

    Parent

    That's simply not true. (none / 0) (#164)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 11:03:34 PM EST
    ragebot: "But the bottom line is the European sailors around the time of Columbus were developing methods of navigation that allowed them to replicate their voyages and the ability to communicate where they had gone for history, something the Pacific natives really could not do."

    Pacific islanders didn't just wander the oceans aimlessly, stumbling upon islands in haphazard fashion. They knew exactly where they were going and further, they made repeated trips of vast distances between various island groups.

    Polynesian, Melanesian and Micronesian cultures have also enjoyed longstanding traditions of oral histories, which they used to meticulously document indigenous knowledge, skills, and past events in their respective people's lives through the generations.

    In Hawaiian culture, there's Papakū Makawalu, a rather revolutionary methodology for its time which fully integrates traditional language and cultural practices within a discipline of astute observation of the world around you. Papakū Makawalu encourages you to understand the universe holistically, and examine and grasp the relationships of various segments in a given ecosystem, rather than merely examine each in a wholly arbitrary and piecemeal fashion, as though they've nothing to do with one another.

    That white people didn't (and don't) understand the indigenous languages or refused to recognize native accomplishments in navigation and other fields doesn't mean that therefore, Pacific islanders were incapable of recounting their own histories or documenting / understanding the world around them -- which is actually a rather insidious form of racism, if you think about it.

    Further, place names often provide specific reference points to their navigational skills and prowess. For example, the westernmost point of the Hawaiian island of Kaho'olawe is called Ke'ala'ikahiki, which literally translates in English as "the way to Tahiti."

    Lawe mai i ka ma'alea a ku'ono'ono. Take wisdom and let it run deep.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Donald did you really read my post (none / 0) (#176)
    by ragebot on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 06:33:57 AM EST
    the part where I linked to this book.  I also said the book was the best I knew of on the subject of early navigation in the Pacific.

    Or did you read the part about Johan Muller who produced a well respected ephemeris many of the early European navigators relied on.  This is the key to why early European sailors could navigate.  It was possible to do it using the stars for navigation when combined with basic instruments.

    Columbus, and other early European navigators also relied heavily on the Viking history (mostly oral but some written) of trips to North America.

    I am not taking anything away from the early Pacific sailors.  Just pointing out they did not have a reliable ephemeris or knowledge of the movements of stars, planets, and moon.  They also did not have a standard written language to document their travels or describe to others their methods of navigation.

    The Europeans not only had an advantage in methods of navigation due to having an ephemeris and knowledge of how things moved in the heavens they also had much more seaworthy boats and ships.  Again I am not taking anything away from early Pacific sailors, just noting that a larger more seaworthy ship with better knowledge of the heavens are big advantages in traveling the oceans.  And a written language that survives the ages is also an advantage in keeping knowledge of navigation and discovery alive.

    If you bother to read A Song For Satawal you will note the writer points out the sailors in Carolina today (and the author as well) are sadden by the fact that the songs the islanders use for navigation are being forgotten along with the bead strings used to help remember how to navigate.  One of the things the book tries to do is keep this knowledge alive.  That was one of the reasons I liked the book so much, it was an attempt to save the culture of early Pacific sailors.

    Parent

    long (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by sj on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:53:39 PM EST
    comment.

    Parent
    Although I'm loathe to defend Speaker Boehner, ... (none / 0) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:12:39 PM EST
    ... I can see why he would think that, since Congress itself officially renamed the mountain when it authorized the creation of the national park in 1917. Before that, the name "Mt. McKinley" was entirely unofficial, and the congressional sanction was no doubt to the consternation of native peoples who took exception to some white prospector's re-designation of Denali as such.

    But in Feb. 1917, when the park was created, President McKinley's assassination at the hands of anarchist Leon Czolgosz 16 years earlier was still fresh in the minds of many Americans, particularly in Washington. In "the Age of Imperialism," he was seen by a lot of people as some sort of political martyr. Therefore, the formal renaming of Denali as "Mt. McKinley" was part of the natural order of things as they existed at the time.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The natural order of things (none / 0) (#70)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:20:42 PM EST
    was also responsible for the names Leningrad and Stalingrad and many other names down through history near and dear to the might-makes-right, the-winners-write-history crowd..

    Parent
    Exactly. (none / 0) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:36:09 PM EST
    To the victors belongs the spoils, which includes the historical record -- at least for the immediate time being, anyway. Suffice to say that later generations may not look so kindly upon those victors once the full light of that history is shone upon them. And so there is our occasional reckoning with what we were told happened, as opposed to what actually occurred.

    Pervasive skepticism amongst the predominately white scholar class about the Polynesians' ability to sail between distant island groups throughout the Pacific and Indian Oceans during the first millennium, A.D., was only finally dispelled in 1976, with the first trip to Tahiti of the Hawaiian twin-hulled voyaging canoe Hokulea, a remarkable feat which was accomplished solely by the crew's reliance upon the ancient Pacific Island art of navigation by the stars.

    As a direct result of that accomplishment, as well as subsequent voyages undertaken by Hokulea which continue to this very day, western academia has begun the painstaking reassessment of the history of Pacific Islanders, by examining and assessing Malayo-Polynesian oral histories as recounted by native 'oli (chants), such as the Hawaiian Kumulipo.

    Because as local native historians and cultural practicioners such as John Osorio, Han-unani Kay-Trask, the late Mary Pukui and the late 'Iolani Luahine have long contended, the true history of indigenous peoples long predates the white man's "discovery" of them.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    LBJ (none / 0) (#112)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:05:26 PM EST
    renamed Cape Canaveral as Cape Kennedy by executive order, that lasted 10 years until the State of Florida got it changed back. Longstanding historical names should never be forsaken for the latest political hero or martyr.

    Parent
    Oculus don't feel bad (none / 0) (#74)
    by fishcamp on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:26:18 PM EST
    About not knowing about the Athabaskan people or any of the other strangely named American and Canadian Indian tribes and people.  One almost has to be from the Pacific Northwest to get used to those names.  Many rivers in Oregon and Washington have names like Skamakawa and Snoqualame.  There are literally hundreds of small tribes up there with those types of names.  Many of them are the people that make totem poles, which always fascinated me as a kid.

    Parent
    From the Editorial page (none / 0) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:57:38 PM EST
    of the Columbus Dispatch recently:

    Ohio's congressional representatives should let Denali be Denali. It's time to end the perennial defensive action against Alaskans who want to allow one of their state's grandest natural features to be known officially by its real name....The mountain has sacred significance that long predates the United States. Ohio should gracefully concede.

    Parent

    Senator Lisa Murkowski (R) (none / 0) (#63)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:04:37 PM EST
    speaking today on the change back to Denali

    Parent
    More (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:38:16 PM EST
    The renaming of Mt. McKinley has got the people over at the Millard Fillmore Rest Stop very nervous #next

    -- Scott Paulsen (@heymrpaulsen) August 31, 2015



    Parent
    I think they dislike it (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:56:46 PM EST
    because it sounds suspiciously African.

    Parent
    It fits perfectly into their (none / 0) (#107)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:53:29 PM EST
    paranoid anti-multiculturalism narrative..

    Liberal elites trying to make American children ashamed of their heritage..blah blah

    Texas PTA stuff..

    Parent

    As I noted earlier, Alaskans temselves have ... (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:47:06 PM EST
    ... long called the mountain by its proper name. Right now, I'd say that it's only the GOP leadership in D.C. which has a burr up its butt over this, and that's likely more due to their own anti-Obama reflexes than anything else.

    And of course, the Ohio congressional delegation perceives today's reversion to the mountain's original name as some sort of slight to the state's native son William McKinley, when it's really got nothing at all to do with either Ohio or the 25th president.

    It was simply the right thing to do.

    Parent

    But a friend in Ohio reports (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Towanda on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 09:59:45 PM EST
    that some Ohioans in her town are d*mned mad about this insult to McKinley, because he was the great explorer of Alaska!  And that's why the mountain was named for him!  And they swear that it says so in the books, because they were taught that in grade school!

    The stoopid is hurting at record levels today.

    Parent

    My nephew (none / 0) (#123)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:27:45 PM EST
    ...and his future wife met while working at the Denali National Park.  They called the mountain Denali.  I have been to Alaska six or seven times.  I have never in my visits to Alaska heard it called by any other name.  Everyone in Alaska seems proud to call it Denali, almost make a point of it.

    Admittedly anecdotal and a small sample, but there you go.  I don't think even Sarah Palin will argue this one.

    Parent

    Predictably and tiresomely, (none / 0) (#82)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:59:52 PM EST
    you misstate the truth.

    Predictably and tiresomely, Republicans are already criticizing Obama for removing the name of Mt. McKinley

    From your own link:

    The Ohio delegation's disappointment at the decision cut across party lines.

    "We must retain this national landmark's name in order to honor the legacy of this great American president and patriot," Democratic Rep. Tim Ryan, whose district includes McKinley's hometown of Niles, in eastern Ohio.



    Parent
    It's Fox News, dude. (1.00 / 0) (#103)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:37:40 PM EST
    Nuf ced.

    Parent
    And rather than quote Fox News ... (1.00 / 0) (#110)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:59:05 PM EST
    ... from my link as though what they say is somehow gospel, you ought to read THIS, THIS and THIS. Now, that's all I'm going to say to you on this subject.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Gawd, you're ridiculous. (none / 0) (#114)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:08:25 PM EST
    From your The Atlantic link:

    Democratic Representative Tim Ryan, who like McKinley was born in Niles, [Ohio,] is also unhappy.

    And from the NYTimes:

    Senator Lisa Murkowski, Republican of Alaska, introduced legislation in January to rename the peak


    Parent
    Some Republicans heads (none / 0) (#104)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:43:03 PM EST
    will explode.  They wanted to re-name it Mt. Reagan.

    Parent
    The Fox Effect continues (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 02:23:41 PM EST
    Why Hasn't Black Lives Matter been labeled a Hate Group?

    During a segment on the Black Lives Matter movement on Monday morning, "Fox and Friends" host Elisabeth Hasselbeck suggested that the organization be labeled a hate group.

    Fox brought on conservative African-American writer Kevin Jackson to discuss the Saturday Black Lives Matter protest at the Minnesota State Fair and the Friday shooting of a Texas sheriff's deputy.

    "Kevin, why has the Black Lives Matter movement not been classified yet as a hate group?" Hasselbeck asked Jackson during the segment. "How much more has to go in this direction before someone actually labels it as such?"

    "Well they should do it, but unfortunately it's being financed by the leftists," Jackson said in response. "Ironically it's people that have nothing, really no concern at all about black lives."

    I don't know which is worse, Hasselbeck's question, or Jackson's answer.

    If I were a glib, highly articulate, A*****e, (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:25:40 PM EST
    I could be a FOX commentator too.

    I do not agree with the easy dismissal of FOX talent, that they are stupid.  

    They're not stupid, and that's worse.  

    Parent

    I dunno (none / 0) (#131)
    by lentinel on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:03:17 PM EST
    about those Fox hosts not being stupid.

    They may indeed be worse than stupid, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not plain stupid as well.

    Parent

    kdog (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:21:52 PM EST
    I've found a reason for you to take up running.

    The 420 Games 5K in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park on August 16th awarded $500 in marijuana credit to the male and female winners.

    I run all the time man.... (none / 0) (#93)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:13:44 PM EST
    60 feet to first base, 80 yards on kickoffs, 84 feet on a fast break.

    5k? F#ck that I'll buy my own weed;)

    Parent

    That could be (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:16:07 PM EST
    a very funny race

    Parent
    The Crazy Chicken (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:34:17 PM EST
    you can't make this stuff up.

    the pic is priceless

    I think they should go with The Crazy Chicken Brothers.

    (Breaking Bad joke)

    Lol (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 09:50:48 PM EST
    Josh works so hard in school and his extracurricular things, when he asked to sign up for a monthly delivery of something called Loot Crate I couldn't say no. It's about $25 a month, and it's a box of you name it trinkets from video games and the latest movies. The first crate came a few nights ago, and Josh brings me something from his crate he doesn't want. It's an apron that said Los Pollos Hermanos on it. It looked familiar but I couldn't place it. I made and served dinner in it though, just to be in the spirit of things. After dinner he looked it up because he couldn't place it either. It is an apron from the chicken restaurant in Breaking Bad. I will cherish it always :)

    Parent
    Soup Man! (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 12:40:52 AM EST


    Parent
    Loot crate (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 07:00:59 AM EST
    Yes, mine wanted that too but I don't remember if it was last year or the year before. There must be a secret society of teenage boys where they learn about such things :)

    Parent
    I would love (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 08:32:40 AM EST
    a Los Pollos Hermanos apron.

    Parent
    I think you are incorrect (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:54:24 PM EST
    if it's a joke it's a running joke.  I've been reading about this guy for a while.

    Parent
    From the comments to the story (none / 0) (#86)
    by ragebot on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:05:13 PM EST
    It's sad when you have to look at the tags in an article to see if it's satire or real

    Parent
    I prefer to believe it (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:12:54 PM EST


    Parent
    fiction, humor, satire (none / 0) (#95)
    by ragebot on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:17:16 PM EST
    as tags for the story would give me second thoughts about just how real it was

    Parent
    Oh. It's not. Apparently. (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:20:37 PM EST
    it is a running joke because I remember reading about Taco Bell.

    Still.  I PREFER to believe it.  If the right wing can do it do can I.

    Parent

    Very sad (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:06:09 PM EST
    Wes Craven, RIP: The Mild-Mannered King Of Our Nightmares

    Nightmare On Elm St is a work of art

    Truly a bummer. He attended my college, (none / 0) (#96)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:20:19 PM EST
    Clarkson U, in Potsdam, NY, way upstate. Rumor is that some of his early college films and the Nightmare on Elm St series are named after the Elm St in Potsdam. I lived on Elm St for 3 years.

    RIP

    Parent

    I have special affection for that movie (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:25:50 PM EST
    there are so many brilliant moments.  I remember dragging a friend to see it in a theater (like, the third time for me) and embarrassing him by laughing out loud in all the wrong places.   Like when the EMT arrive for Johnny Depp and the cop says, "you don't need a stretcher.  You need a mop."

    It's like a master class in cheep effective special effects.

    Parent

    Ya, in some ways a younger version of (none / 0) (#116)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:11:14 PM EST
    Roger Corman.

    Parent
    Apparently (none / 0) (#190)
    by CST on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 09:47:02 AM EST
    he was also a part time bird columnist.

    "Schneider suggests that fans read Craven's last column, which ran in June. It's a tale that has Craven flying with the birds, using an ultralight that allows him to travel through time. Schneider says it was a fitting and "elegiac" final piece.

    Schneider said, of his friend, "He was the sweetest sort of avuncular character you could care to meet. I don't know anyone who knew him who didn't feel lucky to know him. And his imagination was so unique."

    He added, "We will not soon find another bird columnist like him.""

    Parent

    final stall/appeal denied (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by Peter G on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:37:01 PM EST
    for Rowan County, Kentucky clerk. Justice Kagan wisely referred the defiant clerk's shameless lawyers' motion to the full Court rather than rule on it herself first (which would have allowed them to waste more time seeking full court review). Not a single Justice dissented. Nor did anyone see any need to write a word beyond "Denied."

    What's her next step (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:53:25 PM EST
    to maintain her ten minutes of infamy?

    Parent
    Martyrdom, would be my guess (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by Peter G on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 09:07:43 PM EST
    Keep refusing. Force the federal judge to hold her in contempt. The judge can impose a fine that kicks in every time she refuses to comply with his injunction, or even jail her until she resigns the office she refuses to carry out, or else agrees to comply with the law. Sadly, she had forced it to come to that.

    Parent
    The Infamy Continues This Morning (none / 0) (#181)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 07:45:16 AM EST
    MOREHEAD, Ky. (AP) -- On Tuesday morning, Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis' office denied the licenses to at least two couples. At first, Davis remained in her office with the door closed and blinds drawn. But she emerged a few minutes later, telling the couples and the activists gathered there that her office is continuing to deny the licenses "under God's authority."


    Parent
    Hopefully (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 08:20:38 AM EST
    someone will point out to the sanctimonious idiot that God does not sign her damn pay checks and if she would like them to continue she will do her damn job.

    Parent
    Moron wants to be a martyr? (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 08:24:38 AM EST
    give her what she wants.  

    In a separate development, the Kentucky attorney general is mulling whether to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate whether she violated the state official misconduct statute when her office refused to issue a license to a Rowan County gay couple.

    Official misconduct is a misdemeanor punishable by up to 365 days in jail.

    A public servant is guilty of it when, "with intent to deprive another person of a benefit," he or she refrains "from performing a duty imposed upon by law or clearly inherent in the nature" of his office or "violates any statute or lawfully adopted rule or regulation" relating to it.



    Parent
    Someone needs to inform (5.00 / 3) (#193)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:05:42 AM EST
    this wackjob that 'god' does not sign her paycheck. I'm a bit frustrated with this job. What good is a court order if there are no consequences for disobedience. Bankrupt this woman with fines. Lock her self-righteous a$$ up in the county jail.

    Parent
    A video of (none / 0) (#187)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 09:17:48 AM EST
    Clerk Davis of Rowan County, KY, refusing to issue marriage licenses.

    Parent
    Is there some reason she can't (none / 0) (#189)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 09:44:11 AM EST
    be fired, now that the Court has spoken and she is still refusing to do her job?

    It's all well and good that she believes she only answers to God, but He doesn't sign her paychecks.

    In other legal news:

    A federal judge in Washington on Monday exempted the group March for Life from ObamaCare's controversial contraception mandate, which the group touted as a victory for secular, not just religious, objections to the rule.

    U.S. District Court Judge Richard Leon, an appointee of President George W. Bush, ruled that allowing exemptions to the birth control rule only for religious groups violates the Constitution's guarantee of equal protection.

    March for Life praised the ruling as "the first one to be granted in favor of an organization opposed to the mandate for pro-life reasons based on science and moral convictions rather than religion."

    How significant is this?  

    [does it matter that the so-called science March of Life relies on is junk science?]

    Parent

    I read somewhere (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by CST on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:02:35 AM EST
    She's an elected official, and would need to be impeached.  Which is unlikely to happen under current political circumstances.

    Parent
    But the judge can levy fines (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:09:09 AM EST
    to bankrupt her. Hefty fines. Take everything she owns. Kind of hard to come to work when you're homeless. Just ask the homeless. Jail will make her a larger martyr in the eyes of supporters (though I advocated that earlier). Observation has shown me that christians worship the almighty dollar as much or more than 'god'. Take her money. All of it.

    Parent
    The lawyers for the couples agrees (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:23:42 AM EST
    they have asked the judge to not put her in jail since she would continue collecting a salary but hit her with financial penalties "increasingly onerous".  This could happen today.  

    I would bet, looking at the video, this person is one of those "nondenominational" fanatics.  Like my former boss.  It's the hair.  I've never seen her feet but I would bet the skirt is long.

    Parent

    Her and all her deputy clerks (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:33:38 AM EST
    ordered to appear in court for a contempt hearing 11am Thursday.

    Parent
    Hefty fines, I hope (none / 0) (#197)
    by Towanda on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:22:49 AM EST
    . . . as her salary is $80,000 a year.  That's a lot in that area.

    Unfortunately, so I read, the next in line is another in her family, which has controlled the patronage position for years.  They all want to be martyrs to their cause -- and keep that salary in the family.

    Time to send in the troops, as Ike had to do, to finally enforce a Supreme Court ruling in the recalcitrant areas still fighting the War Between the States?

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:24:51 AM EST
    i hesitate to use the language but this person should be made an example.

    Parent
    It doesn't take much to bankrupt most (none / 0) (#201)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:41:30 AM EST
    Americans.  The FED released a study recently showing that about half of us could not come up with $400 without the help of a credit card.

    This little drama will be interesting to watch.

    Parent

    Oh...that does change things a bit. (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:11:23 AM EST
    I guess the principle of doing God's work on government time takes priority over the principle of not taking the government's money for not working.

    Parent
    Okay, this is psychic weird (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:01:54 AM EST
    Okay, this is psychic weird. Twilight zone stuff. Two days ago, for some reason, as my usual daily poem for my wife, I felt like writing the lyrics for an imaginary Pogues song. The lyrics are below. But then yesterday I learned that, literally, at the same time I was getting that odd inspiration and writing out the chops, the actual leader of the Pogues, the face of the band, effed up uber-drunk singer/lyricist Shane McGowan, was breaking his pelvis in what is described in the paper as "a complicated dance move." McGowan is made of alcohol, is the biggest imbiber on the planet, so just what constitutes "a complicated dance move" for him is my greatest curiosity. For Shane, on most inebriated nights, a complicated dance move would be taking two steps forward.(link) Anyway, so oddball coincidental, but such is life. And here's the lyrics to that imgainary Pogues song that I wrote:

    At death's door I shouted
    I knocked and I pounded
    I demanded the lock
    Be unbolted for me.

    I was not found praying
    But shivering and saying
    It's colder in heaven
    When you're just passing through.

    The wonder it faded
    The voice it restated
    It's colder in heaven
    But much warmer with blues.

    At death's door I shouted
    I knocked and I pounded
    I demanded the lock
    Be unbolted for me.

    Rich as a bird
    Free as a word
    Beaten into the air
    By a fresh young wing.

    Claws round a wire
    A visual choir
    As loud as a stare
    As drowned as the spring.

    At death's door I shouted
    I knocked and I pounded
    I demanded the lock
    Be unbolted for me.

    Yes truth wants to be told
    But not `til it's so old
    That's most of the witnesses
    Can't hear anymore.

    It likes to be stroked
    To be mirrored and smoked
    That's why I am beating
    Upon this deaf door.

    At death's door I shouted
    I knocked and I pounded
    I demanded the lock
    Be unbolted for me.

    I demanded the lock
    Be unbolted for me
    But those sensitive bastards
    Will not let me in yet.

    Pope Francis recognizes ... (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 01:30:09 PM EST
    ScottW714: "I will never understand the appeal of Christianity, I understand the implied threat of hell, but doesn't seem why most worship. Kudos to the Pope for actually practicing the teachings of jesus, seems like the others could learn a thing or two about mercy."

    ... a basic human foible and conundrum that's long plagued mankind, which is that one can be entirely and adamantly religious without ever being at all spiritual.

    Although I'm a practicing Roman Catholic, I also personally subscribe to the belief that there are many paths to the same destination, and therefore it is not at all necessary for one to subscribe to any particular religious dogma in order to attain spiritual enlightenment.

    And sometimes in matters of personal faith, it is eminently advisable to keep one's own counsel and act as one sees fit personally, and not as another might otherwise insist or direct according to said dogma. That's why we each have a conscience.

    Aloha.

    Scott - here's the thing about the Pope: (5.00 / 1) (#211)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 02:44:04 PM EST
    For some reason, even though he is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, and not the entire Christian world, the media and popular culture seems to treat him as if he speaks for all Christians.  As if Catholic dogma had a position of primacy within the Christian world.

    I don't much understand all the judgment at the earthly level when, presumably, all is forgiven at the next level.  Maybe religion is still assuming and presuming that we mere mortals cannot on our own exercise good moral judgment without the fear of the fires of hell; to me it's just way too controlling, and seriously messes with people's minds.  Maybe it's supposed to, I don't know, but sometimes I think it borders on abusive.

    With respect to abortion, what the pope said was:


    he will allow priests "discretion to absolve of the sin of abortion those who have procured it and who, with contrite heart, seek forgiveness for it" during the holy year beginning December 8.

    Charlie Pierce - a Catholic himself - had these observations/thoughts:

    OK, all the usual disclaimers apply. It's only for a year.

    It's based on the idea that a woman who chooses to have an abortion needs absolution in the first place, which is pretty damned patronizing and paternalistic all on its own. It assumes that they need to be "contrite." In sum, it is indeed the smallest splinter of a smidgen of an iota of change. All of that is true.

    However, and this is a big however, this is anything but a tiny change in the way that HMC does her daily business. Papa Francesco has taken this decision away from the bishops--including those American wingnuts who want politicians who support a woman's right to choose refused communion and/or excommunicated--and placed it in the privacy of the confessional, where it is between a woman and her parish priest.

    Papa Francesco is not stupid. He knows that it was in the confessional where Paul VI's egregiously wrong and egregiously anti-human encyclical banning artificial birth control, Humanae Vitae, crawled off and expired. It died in hundreds of thousands of whispered conversations between parishioners and priests who were embarrassed by the document. HV is a dead letter among most Catholics because of millions of individual acts of private subversion on the part of clergy and laity.

    In many ways, this is the pope recognizing that a right to privacy is inherent in the decision. Moreover, the subtext of this latest pronouncement is that Papa Francesco feels he has bigger fish to fry than policing the sexytime of his flock, and that he doesn't fully trust the members of the Clan of the Red Beanie with the job, either. This remains a very interesting auld fella.

    [I broke what was one long paragraph into smaller chunks to make it easier to read, and the bold is mine, too]

    ruffian (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:18:54 PM EST
    i just saw Ex Machina.  So good.  Great Oscar Issac performance as the mad scientist.

    The same subject as HUMANS but far more compellingly handled.

    Interesting WaPost op-ed on advisors in (none / 0) (#5)
    by Green26 on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 12:50:13 PM EST
    Iraq including forward air controllers. "Why U.S. generals don't want advisers on the front lines in Iraq". The discussion on the number of people, logistics and issues is interesting. Article.

    "A controller operates as part of a team of a dozen soldiers, plus vehicles, plus reinforcements on alert, plus aircraft for evacuations, plus logistics. To insert controller teams into the battles for Fallujah or Ramadi requires a commitment on the order of thousands of Americans."

    Also tucked in the op-ed is this quote: "The Iraqi government dismissed them [the right Iraqi officers] after our forces left in 2011. The Sunnis were then oppressed, and the Islamic State surged in."

    Written by Bing West--former assistant secretary of defense and Marine who has written several books about the Iraq war.

    The tragic story of Oliver Sacks's celibacy (none / 0) (#18)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 01:51:55 PM EST
    - Washington Post.

    (Sigh!) That was sad. (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:13:32 PM EST
    I don't know why, but now that I've read it, Dr. Sacks's story really bummed me out today. While he obviously struggled to rationalize his mother's rejection of his homosexuality as reflective of the times in which he was born and raised, at least he attained some sense of personal fulfillment and happiness late in life with his partner Bill. Still, it's scary to consider the emotional damage we can potentially inflict upon our offspring with a potent combination of ego and ignorance.

    Parent
    A wonderful (5.00 / 3) (#170)
    by sj on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 12:54:35 AM EST
    interview with him here. His last of many for Radiolab. His humor and kindness, as always, shine through.

    Parent
    Homosexuality was a crime in England when (none / 0) (#168)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 12:39:22 AM EST
    Sacks' mother said this. He and she were in contact until she died and he speaks of her admiringly and frequently in his memoir On the Move.  He also states he was in therapy for many years.

    Parent
    I don't really know what to say about this (none / 0) (#36)
    by CST on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 03:14:10 PM EST
    Other than - Trump's either the best thing or the worst thing to happen to this election season.

    And possibly both.

    "Republicans Wary of Donald Trump's Populist Tone on Taxes"

    Link

    I'm honestly coming to the conclusion that Trump is possibly the least-bad Republican option - and not just because he'd lose the general election in a landslide.

    I find him personally racist and sexist and an abhorrent human being.  And I think he's the best the GOP has to offer.  What a state of affairs we are in.

    The Great Thing (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 01:10:45 AM EST
    ...about Trump's tax populism is that it will force a response from his rivals.  How will the others respond to this liberal approach?  Should be interesting if he forces the discussion in that direction.

    Parent
    The hands up don't shoot lie bears fruit. (none / 0) (#64)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:06:43 PM EST
    The best thing about Obama is the racial healing.

    The suspect criminal (none / 0) (#69)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:19:21 PM EST
    history may shed some light on his unprovoked murder of this uniformed law enforcement officer.

    Parent
    And the hits just keep on comming (none / 0) (#72)
    by ragebot on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 04:22:56 PM EST
    150 more questionable emails

    At some point (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by mm on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:27:35 PM EST
    You're going to have to make up your freaking mind.  Do you want to see every single email to and from Secretary Clinton while serving her country or don't you?  Because if you do, there is going to be parts redacted.  This is just normal.  Ask a real journalist (if you can find one) what they get back from their FOIA requests sometime.

    What is happening now is extraordinary and unprecedented.  You're getting to see four years worth of fairly recent emails from the Secretary of State.  You should be happy.  Bob Woodward was delighted when he heard the news.  Because this never happened before.  Because her name is Clinton the media must do a thorough anal exam.

    Parent

    This can't be good (none / 0) (#91)
    by ragebot on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:11:48 PM EST
    I know it is Brietbart, but some of the claims are very specific and seem to be backed up by solid sources.

    Hillary's network problems

    Parent

    SEEM to be backed up by solid sources.. (none / 0) (#98)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:21:52 PM EST
    always keeping in mind that the hallmark of a good Nixonian dirty trickster - or a climate denier, or a conservative televangelist - is to embellish and twist actual facts in the service of manipulating perceptions..

    Parent
    DSN logs (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by ragebot on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 05:37:35 PM EST
    show that Hillary's server, Bill's server, Chelsea's server, and the Clinton Foundation's server were all on the same network.  Bill and Hillary's server also had the same SSL certificate and same ISP address.

    There was a sizable list of folks employed by the Clinton Foundation who had email accounts on the network.

    I view calling someone Nixon like almost as bad as calling them Hitler like.

    Bottom line is not only did Hillary take a hit with 150 more redacted emails being found but her server is also less secure than before due to its network architecture.

    Parent

    Do you even read the links you cite? (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:09:37 PM EST
    Under intense questioning, Toner conceded that the review of about 7,000 pages of emails in the latest batch has uncovered the 150 communications 'that have been subsequently upgraded classified.'

    He emphasized that 'the information we've upgraded was not marked classified at the time the emails were sent.' But Toner seemed to hedge his bets against future decision-making inside the U.S. Intelligence Community.

    [...]

    Toner also said he did not know of any cases of emails that were already released undergoing another round of scrutiny with an eye toward identifying more classified documents.

    'That's not our belief,' he said. 'We stand by what's been released.'

    The Associated Press reported that all of the newly classified material in the latest batch was upgraded to 'confidential,' not to the higher 'top secret' level that applied to two emails identified a month ago.

    So...e-mails that were not previously marked or deemed classified have NOW been deemed so.

    But, hey - thanks for treating us all to the Daily Mail, a tabloid rag that is so clearly biased, so clearly trying to make news out of nothing, that it's obvious why you've gravitated to it.

    And why my reaction to this non-news is more or less, "so what?"

    Parent

    Canadian wall (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:21:16 PM EST
    Mexican wall.   What's the over under on how long it takes for someone to suggest a DOME?

    OTOH (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:24:28 PM EST
    the Canadians might pay for it.  I know Canadians who have wanted a wall for years.

    Parent
    Maybe that Canadian (none / 0) (#144)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 08:03:10 PM EST
    wall is not such a good idea after all.  At least, until Walker's next interview.

    Parent
    New National Poll from Morning Consult (none / 0) (#127)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 06:50:29 PM EST
    GOP:

    Trump 37
    Bush 9
    Carson 9
    Huckabee 6
    Rubio 6
    Walker 5
    ...and so on

    Dem:

    Clinton 52
    Sanders 23
    Webb 2
    O'Malley 1
    Chafee 1

    This is interesting (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:00:46 PM EST
    The real story is contained deeper in the poll. In May, when the Register last polled, 27 percent of likely Iowa GOP caucus-goers viewed Trump favorably while 63 percent regarded him unfavorably. In the new poll, which was released Saturday night, Trump's favorable number is at 61 percent and his unfavorable at 35 percent.


    Parent
    This is a national poll (none / 0) (#134)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:20:28 PM EST
    not an Iowa poll

    Parent
    Right (none / 0) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:26:50 PM EST
    i just pointed that out because it was being said his unfavorables was showing he had a low ceiling.   The ceiling seems to be rising.

    Parent
    Agreed (none / 0) (#139)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:30:29 PM EST
    The Trunp ceiling isn't where the talking heads thought it was.

    Parent
    How reliable (none / 0) (#132)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:08:10 PM EST
    is this poll? It seems to be pretty much in line with other national polls though.

    Parent
    The only way to know for sure (none / 0) (#135)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:24:19 PM EST
    if a poll is reliable, is if the election were held tomorrow and backs up their results.

    Parent
    But the most recent Q Poll from a week ago (none / 0) (#138)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 07:28:35 PM EST
    had Trump up 16 and Clinton up 23 vs this MC poll with Trump up 28 and Clinton up 29.

    Parent
    PPP Poll to be released in the morning (none / 0) (#157)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 09:26:18 PM EST
    National Poll has:

    Trump leading Carson by 14
    Clinton leading Sanders by 35

    Parent

    In other Supreme Court news (none / 0) (#158)
    by Peter G on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 09:45:03 PM EST
    former Virginia governor McDonnell has won a rare stay of sentence (continued bail) pending the filing and eventual consideration of a Supreme Court petition questioning the recent affirmance of his conviction. This order is a strong indication that at least four Justices question the interpretation of the federal law used to convict him, even before receiving his formal petition for review.

    That's great news, Peter! (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 31, 2015 at 10:14:32 PM EST
    Now, Bob McDonnell can be exonerated by the high court just in time to declare his candidacy for the 2016 GOP presidential nomination.

    ;-D

    Parent

    More good news for Donald (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 08:35:51 AM EST
    Donald Trump would defeat Kanye West in a hypothetical presidential match-up, according to a survey released Monday.

    Market research firm Echelon Insights said Trump leads in every age demographic, except for the 25-34 bracket, which voted in favor of West by an 8-point margin.

    The poll of 500 adults using Google Consumer Surveys has the real estate tycoon drawing 38 percent support and the hip-hop mogul finishing with 21 percent support; 41 percent remain undecided:
    Meanwhile (none / 0) (#194)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:07:00 AM EST
    Russian jets take to Syrian skies to combat IS

    Russia begins military intervention against IS in Syria

    Russian fighter pilots, jets and helicopters will begin arriving in Syria in the coming days to join in the offensive against the Islamic State (IS) ...

    According to Western diplomats, Russian expeditionary forces have already arrived in Syria to set up camp in an Assad-controlled airbase near Damascus ....

    Since there's no upside to anything (none / 0) (#202)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:48:18 AM EST
    involving IS, there may be no downside to Russian intervention.

    This was discussed on the Dianne Rehm show the other day.  Seems Russia and the U.S. are talking again.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend. (none / 0) (#205)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 11:05:25 AM EST
    An Arabic proverb attributed to a prince who was betrayed and decapitated by his own people.

    -Mr Spock

    Still, it's a helluva quote.

    -Kirk

    Pope Tells... (none / 0) (#206)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 12:43:17 PM EST
    ...priests to pardon women who have abortions.  

    You mean they are actually going to forgive other Christians for their 'sins', and this is news.  Thought the entire appeal of g.o.d. was the forgiveness.

    I never really got why people would worship a place that is very judgmental, so much so that few probably pass their standards, including many of their own.  If it was a relationship, it would be an abusive one.

    Lot of self-loathing brought on by low self-esteem form the judgmental church.

    I will never understand the appeal of Christianity, I understand the implied threat of hell, but doesn't seem why most worship.

    Kudos to the Pope for actually practicing the teachings of jesus, seems like the others could learn a thing or two about mercy.

    The Jeb2016 anti Trump ad on YouTube (none / 0) (#207)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 12:54:23 PM EST
    Did you see this one?   It really had the Trump quotes for Hillary. When asked if he was Dem or Republican, he said he did not know. Then identified with the Dems and Pro Choicers. Now, all these snips took place during the last 10 years or so, but for Jeb, it is a good ad. But commenters said they liked Trump even more.

    As seen on Yahoo: Jeb Bush hit back at Donald Trump on Tuesday, releasing a scathing campaign ad that reveals the "real Donald Trump."

    The 90-second attack ad shows Trump over the years endorsing single-payer health care, raising taxes on the wealthy and Hillary Clinton as a good negotiator against Iran.

    "Hillary Clinton I think is a terrific woman," Trump is shown saying. One clip shows Trump identifying as pro-choice -- a no-no in Republican politics; he's also shown saying he identifies more as a Democrat.

    The one who requires forgiveness (none / 0) (#209)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 01:42:01 PM EST
    is a God whose created scheme of things includes girls who can concieve at eleven and twelve and pubescent boys with a powerful urge to procreate..

    Some set up..

    Donald... (none / 0) (#210)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 02:04:02 PM EST
    ...I understand all that, what I was saying is that why can't I get it, when nearly everyone on the planet seems to believe in some form of a being that judges them.

    Believe me, some days I wish I could push my stress onto something greater or that all the bad people in life will eventually get theirs, or that when I die I don't become worm food, but I can't.

    My GF says, just think how surprised you will be when you wake in heaven.  I don't have the heart to tell he than me version of an eternity in bliss would in no way include her.  Just kidding.

    For the record, I do actually believe that something we would consider organic created everything, but I don't believe it/they gives a S what we or any other creature does.

    I want to expand on a point (none / 0) (#212)
    by caseyOR on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 02:55:23 PM EST
    Pierce makes in the section Anne quotes. This is not a change in the Catholic Church's position on abortion. It is a technical change in how forgiveness is administered in the sacrament of confession.

    Previously, bishops determined what, if any, priests under their control in each individual diocese, could provide absolution to a women confessing to what the Church still believes is the sin of abortion.

    Now, Pope Francis has said, all priests may provide absolution for this sin without first getting approval from their bishop. Getting an abortion is still a sin for which a woman must be grievously sorry. A sin she intends to never again commit.

    I do not think this is as big a change as Pierce seems to believe. It is an administrative change, not a theological change.

    Anne (none / 0) (#213)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 03:16:52 PM EST
    Not only is the Pope head of the Catholic Church, he is also a head of state (unlike most other religions).

    And actually, Catholic dogma DOES have a position of primacy in the Christian world, as (according to the Pew Research Center ), 50.1% of all Christians are Catholic. Approximately 1.2 billion people on planet Earth are Catholic.  While many Catholics (especially in America) may disagree with some or all of the teachings, it doesn't change the fact that the Church us still a player on the world stage, more so than say Lutheranism.

    So yeah, when the Pope speaks, people tend to listen.

    Found elsewhere... (none / 0) (#214)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 04:05:02 PM EST
    Donald Trump trick-or-treats the tea party.

    Perfect (none / 0) (#215)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 05:35:58 PM EST
    I just read the KY freak who imagines herself the last righteous defender of marriage has been married 4 times.

    Btw (none / 0) (#216)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 05:47:31 PM EST
    just saw her feet on local news.  

    Long skirt.

    I told you so.

    Barn Babe (none / 0) (#217)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 05:52:15 PM EST
    I just watched the Jeb ad against Trump. Feh, is what I would say. I mean none of this is an unknown. Will it affect the tea partiers? Don't know.

    Yeah, Howdy she sure looked like one of those wackos because of the hair. However, now that you have seen the entire outfit, you can tell she's part of the Duggar cult.

    On Trump (none / 0) (#218)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 05:59:54 PM EST
    this morning they were discussing recent polling.  They said one of the things they have been asking is is he a 1.) conservative 2.) moderate 3.) liberal.
    These are likely republican voters.  60+ of his supporters said he was a moderate.  
    In other words, they know who he is.  They know about his "past statements and positions" and they don't care.
    jb, when I say "primacy," I'm not (none / 0) (#219)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 06:38:03 PM EST
    referring to the sheer numbers of Catholics in relation to the rest of the Christian world; what I mean is that the Pope is treated by the media as if what he says applies to everyone, not just Catholics.

    I'm not Catholic.  What the Pope says or decrees may be interesting, or thought-provoking, but as the saying goes, "he's not the boss of me."

    So, how long before we start repaying (none / 0) (#221)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:12:32 PM EST
    the Russians for their help in Syria with higher oil prices?

    Oh I forgot it is all supply and demand, market rules....

    riiiight.....

    To be clear i think we have handled Russia (none / 0) (#222)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:15:19 PM EST
    really well, no bellicose rhetoric, just sticking it to them where it hurts until we get what we want.

    Some call it leading from behind, I call it kicking them in the rear.

    Forgot Oscar was in that. Really need to see it. (none / 0) (#224)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 10:26:23 PM EST
    Have not caught the end of Show Me a Hero yet. Maybe I should go do that instead of trying to figure out if the US really wants Assad deposed or not. I think at this point we just want the conflict decided and IS beat, and are ok with Assad staying in power.

    just saw her feet on local news.... (none / 0) (#225)
    by desertswine on Tue Sep 01, 2015 at 11:03:32 PM EST
    Harr...  that brightens up my evening Capt.

    Monday Open Thread | 222 comments (222 topical)