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Trumpapaloooza Tonight!

All I have to say is if Trump tries to come all statesman tonight Ima be pissed. Not what I signed up for.

Talk amongst yourselves.

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    The donald (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:14:03 PM EST
    is killing it in this debate and all he's doing is being himself. LOL.

    Walkers' (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:34:20 PM EST
    numbers should drop from this debate along with Jeb.

    Walker's got that Fargo accent goin' on. (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:44:46 PM EST


    I don't know how much more of this (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:49:45 PM EST
    I can take.

    Donald Trump is just unbelievable.  And not in a good way.

    These people are nuts.

    They are just (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:03:15 PM EST
    coming off as crazy. This is worst than 2012 as far as candidates.

    They keep listing all the things they (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:10:17 PM EST
    want to do, but none of them seem to be aware that those things just don't work.  Basically, it's a prescription for sending millions more into poverty, enriching those who already own most of everything.

    They keep saying, "get rid of Obamacare and replace it," but none of them actually have a plan.

    Listening to these people, I guess I understand what's wrong with the Fox crowd: the more you watch, the dumber you get.

    And can I just say that the hooting and hollering crowd is getting on my nerves.

    Parent

    I just told (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:23:34 PM EST
    a friend of mine you could put the debate in one sentence: return to the policies of George W. Torture, more wars, tax cuts for the wealthy etc. etc.

    And frankly they did not even make a good case against Hillary. They just made themselves look bad and her look reasonable and sane.

    Parent

    Jesus...the people who are falling all over (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:30:44 PM EST
    themselves trying to out-pro-life each other apparently don't see the irony of being what amounts to warmongers who approve of torture.

    I have a headache.

    Or going ape sh!t about (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:32:52 PM EST
    constitutional rights of children.   Until they are born.

    Parent
    That whole (none / 0) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:38:23 PM EST
    segment was downright creepy. It was like they were some kind of bedroom police. Kind of taliban-ish. Ugh.

    Parent
    One word, Anne: (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 12:07:15 AM EST
    Margaritas.

    Parent
    Omarosa on Trump (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 01:49:15 PM EST
    this is the bit I mentioned in the earlier thread

    This is so great.  This woman gets it.   This is entertainment.  We are democrats.  Trump is a gift from God to democrats.  Stop overthinking it and make yourself a cocktail and sit back an enjoy it.

    The very best part is the utter stupifaction of the host and panel.   Except for Michael Steel who admits she is right.  After some other funny stuff.

    Debate (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 05:57:40 PM EST
    BINGO

    Each time this page is accessed, our state-of-the-art servers will shuffle and spit out 25 buzzphrases in convenient 5×5 tabular format. Print one out for everyone in the room, have fun, and play nice, not like that Christie kid from Jersey who wants to punch teachers in the face!

    Could probably also be a drinking game

    So glad (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 06:04:56 PM EST
    you put this up BTD!!

    I have no intention of watching, BTD. (none / 0) (#3)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 06:14:10 PM EST
    I'm glad you are, so that you can spare me the agony of watching the GOP collectively pander to our country's lowest common denominators.

    Per CaptHowdy's drinking game, I think you guys should do a shot of your favorite tequila or whiskey every time a candidate says "We need a better deal" or variations thereof, relative to any panel questions about the proposed nuclear arms agreement with Iran.

    In the meantime, I'll be watching John Stewart's send-off. Have fun.

    I think morning Joe (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 06:26:50 PM EST
    is going to punch Tweety.  Would you watch that DfromH

    No, I wouldn't. (none / 0) (#8)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 06:41:19 PM EST
    The only pundit named Joe whom I want to see on cable TV is BTD's guest from this past Sunday's podcast, Joe Conason.

    Parent
    "[John Stewart] has a bitter view ... (none / 0) (#5)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 06:35:06 PM EST
    ... of the world," says Roger Ailes, the man who repackaged Richard Nixon for public consumption in 1968, and later covered up Ronald Reagan's early struggles with Alzheimer's disease during the 1984 election.

    Yeah! What could Stewart possibly be bitter about?

    Well (none / 0) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 06:35:13 PM EST
    I have watched the clips from the kiddie table and talk about brain dead. The GOP deserves its reputation of being for dumb people judging by that debate. You could predict what they are going to say even before they said it. Same old recycled talking points.

    Joe Scarborough (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 06:42:09 PM EST
    just said basically the same thing.  Saying it explains why Trump is rising.   It was canned and predictable and people hate it.  

    But the fight between Tweety and Joe is hilarious.  Mean, ugly, if they put it on the web you need to watch it.

    The fight started because Tweety wanted to be in a snit that Carly called Hillary a liar and Joey wanted to acknowledge she was the best in the early cpdebate.  Which is actually true.

    It was one of those rare live TV moments.  So rare MSNBC probably won't pit it in the web.   But someone will.


    Parent

    Charlie Pierce has questions for (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:14:47 PM EST
    each of the candidates:

    Jeb (!) Bush: In 2003, you intervened in a private family matter in contravention of a state law that had been enacted several years earlier. How many life-and-death decisions are you preparing to make for individual American families after you are president?"

    Scott Walker: Why do so many of the people who work for your campaigns wind up in jail?

    Chris Christie
    : Do you still believe that so many people in New Jersey won't vote for you for president because they want you to remain governor? If so, have you sought professional help?

    Marco Rubio: Whatever happened to that immigration-reform bill of yours? Is it buried in the backyard, under a rake?

    Mike Huckabee: Please explain, in detail, how an arms deal with Iran is similar to the doors of a crematorium?

    John Kasich: Please explain, in detail, how a Balanced Budget Amendment would have allowed the United States to win World War II. Please show your work.

    Ben Carson: Please explain, in detail, how is the Affordable Care Act like slavery--specifically, illustrate the similarities between the Middle Passage and a Bronze-level plan.

    Rand Paul: How long have you been afflicted with invisibility and is it a chronic condition?

    Ted Cruz: What if I want sausages with my waffles instead?

    Donald Trump: Dude, seriously?



    Parent
    ... why would anyone ever want to work for him, and subsequently risk criminal indictment?

    Parent
    Yes, (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:26:26 PM EST
    Donald Trump: Dude, seriously?

    It appears that no DC centered Repub and certainly no Demo grasps the total frustration that many folks  out in "fly over country" have with big P politicans.

    They don't care that Trump may taken positions in the past for single payer insurance or abortions or wallowed the "Obama wasn't born here" story or any thing else.

    He looks real.

    He looks like he will do what he says and it appears believable that he can do it.

    The rest of them seem to be mealy mouthed. Afraid of their own shadows and unable to stand up and fight.

    Does this mean Trump will be the Main Dude???

    Don't know. But I do know he is the replacement for the "None of the above" crowd.

    Parent

    It's believable (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:58:21 PM EST
    That Trump will build a wall and make Mexico pay for it?

    Seriously?

    Parent

    El Chapo (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 07:54:49 AM EST
    is meeting with his architects as we speak. On the surface it will look like the Great Wall of China but underneath the wall will be a underground interstate with exits and restrooms. Oh yeah, that will work.

    Parent
    Howdy and I (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:31:44 PM EST
    completely understand. Hes' the id of the GOP. he says all the things that republicans around here say all the time like "all hispanics are criminals"

    Parent
    None (none / 0) (#28)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:41:46 PM EST
    of the above is a spot on analysis Jim' Republicans hate their politicians.
    For Dems it's more of a love/hate relationship.

    Parent
    "He looks real" (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:51:56 PM EST
    seriously?  Real what?  

    This is the most silly conventional wisdom about Donald.

    Real?  He looks angry.   He is channeling the unfocused anger of the country.  (Notice I dodnt just say republicans?  I was talking to some registered Dem fans today).  He doesn't seem real he seems angry.   They don't care about policy or ideas or anything really except someone who will say the hateful things they want to hear.

    Real.   Pffft.  Tell that to his hair.

    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:55:48 PM EST
    Obama killed off the unity pony shooting moonbeams and rainbows for everybody.

    Parent
    He looks angry? He looks real? (none / 0) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 10:32:07 PM EST
    Yes and yes. His supporters are angry. You say "registered Dem." If you meant Repub, then I say attend some local Tea Party meetings and meet the people who care very much about policy...they just disagree with you.

    Parent
    They Are Angry... (none / 0) (#104)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 09:40:59 AM EST
    ...because they keep getting swindled into thinking these nonsensical things coming out of their leader's mouths can actually happen.  And when they don't their promised non-sense, they get angry.  Call them Independents, or Tea Partiers, or Palin/Tumpanites, it the same idiots be sold the same tired garbage.

    Trump is just the male citified version of Palin.

    How many times are republicans going to get sold on making abortion illegal, reducing the government, repealing Obama Care, eliminating the IRS, marriage amendment, wall on the border, gays-minorities-women not deserving of what everyone else has, and on and on.

    There are so many candidates because it's the same garbage, just pull out the last 5 election debates if you want to know the future of the GOP.

    Parent

    So (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 09:48:59 AM EST
    ...because they keep getting swindled into thinking these nonsensical things coming out of their leader's mouths can actually happen.  And when they don't their promised non-sense, they get angry.

    They rally to a guy who says he's going to build a wall to isolate Mexico and make Mexico pay for it, "make" China stop stealing our jobs and have the most attractive first lady(s) ever.
    Well, ok, he can deliver the last part but seriously, we are going to need more popcorn.

    What would be awsum is if Donald helps the right wing sheep understand that FOX has been the one shearing them for decades.  Maybe they will begin to understand that FOX has an agenda that has nothing to do with their welfare or being "fair and balanced".

    That would be ironic wouldn't it.

    Parent

    et al (1.50 / 2) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 06:24:52 PM EST
    Watching you folks try to describe why Trump is so popular with many people is like I think it would be for a person from the Middle Ages to be transported into the present and have them describe what they see.

    They couldn't as you can't because neither of you have a base that permits it.

    And I'm not being nasty. That doesn't make you "bad." Just incapable.

    Parent

    I think you're 100% right, Jim (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 07:39:59 AM EST
    Although a better analogy would be transporting a sane, rational, logical person to a psychiatric ward.

    Parent
    Donald Trump is popular with people ... (1.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 08:15:06 PM EST
    ... who have No. 2 for brains. There is nothing sophisticated about his pandering to their lowest common denominators. All it requires is a willingness on his part to actually go there.

    Parent
    Archie Bunker with money (none / 0) (#110)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 09:01:38 PM EST
    And Donald, you lead the pack (none / 0) (#116)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 11:36:53 AM EST
    You have been pampered and sheltered all your life. And don't get your feathers ruffled. You worked and worked hard to do certain things. But your path was pretty well slotted.

    The people you insult, yet expect to govern and get tax dollars from, did not have that advantage.

    While their successes may be modest in the opinion of someone who lives in Paradise, flies hack and forth between the islands and the mainland, they are the next generation up from the miners, sharecroppers, truck drivers...et al... Originally Demo supporters by birth and background they have watched their party morph into something that doesn't have their best interests at heart and they see that party as un American at best, treasonous at worst. So they have left that party to search for something else.

    And they neither like or trust Trump. But they believe he will do what he says.

    And that is very important to people who consider calling someone a liar a heinous insult.

    Parent

    Class envy (none / 0) (#117)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 11:54:18 AM EST
    certainly defines you, Jim.

    Parent
    Class envy.. (none / 0) (#118)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 12:16:35 PM EST
    more like intellect and ethics envy..

    Also, notice the subtle, racist insinuation that only whites count as real working people..

    Perfectly par for the course.  

    Parent

    And one of the Koch brothers (none / 0) (#119)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 12:31:23 PM EST
    compares their struggle to the Civil Rights movement:

    Charles Koch told attendees of his California summit this weeked that he and his brother's conservative activism is akin to the anti-slavery and civil rights movements, the Washington Post reported.

    "Look at the American revolution, the anti-slavery movement, the women's suffrage movement, the civil rights movement," Koch said Sunday. "All of these struck a moral chord with the American people. They all sought to overcome an injustice. And we, too, are seeking to right injustices that are holding our country back."

    The remarks kicked off a session on strategy, as the Kochs look forward to a campaign cycle in which they, through their various organizations, vow to spend nearly $900 million. According to the Washington Post, Charles Koch's comparison Sunday comes along with a larger campaign to improve the image of the brothers' efforts among the public.

    "If we cannot unite the majority of Americans behind the vision, then we're done for," Koch said. "So that, to me, has to be our number one objective. But to do so, we've got to do a much better job of understanding what matters most to people and then to demonstrate that a free society gives them the best opportunity of achieving that."

    You can't make this stuff up. Unlike fiction, reality doesn't have to make sense.

    Parent

    Jondee, is that the best you can do??? (none / 0) (#122)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 02:12:41 PM EST
    You speak of envy, intellect and ethics yet all you do is make a false claim about race?

    Can you not discuss anything without claiming race??

    Why no. No you can't.

    Now, try again. Focus. Come on! You can do it!

    Parent

    You don't disput the part about class (none / 0) (#123)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 03:13:01 PM EST
    I'm focusing, schmendrick (none / 0) (#132)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 11:42:58 AM EST
    by claiming that "truck drivers and share croppers" all abandoned the Democrats, the implication is that the tens-of-thousands of AAs and Latinos that still vote Democrat don't work.

    You're promulagting Gingrich and talk radio's racist "food stamp president" meme..

    These lazy people don't work; they just want to sit around and collect a government check..

    Parent

    troll rated for gratuitious insult (none / 0) (#131)
    by sj on Mon Aug 10, 2015 at 12:16:43 PM EST
    That doesn't make you "bad." Just incapable.


    Parent
    if only. LOL (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:22:35 PM EST
    They could ask Jeb why he is considered a metrosexual purse dog while they're at it.

    Parent
    Kudos to actress Kathleen Turner, ... (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:33:01 PM EST
    ... who wrote an op-ed for Huffington Post in her capacity as board member for the People for the American Way Foundation, which was founded by "All in the Family" producer Norman Lear: "Jeb Bush is 'not sure' we need women's health funding; I'm not sure we need Jeb Bush."

    Parent
    Why (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 06:54:19 PM EST
    is tweety so upset? I mean it's the GOP. It's what they say all the time. I'm frankly surprised that Carly was the only one that said it.

    Carly is the poster girl for everything that is wrong with corporate America these days. Golden parachutes for failure.

    Parent

    He was upset because Joey (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:01:32 PM EST
    was gettin all up in his face and sh!t.  It got really personal.  And funny.  

    As for Carly, would it be sexist to say I liked her suit?

    Parent

    her suit (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:11:50 PM EST
    was nice. I guess it stood out because it had some color against all the gray.

    That being said someone should have pointed out that Fiorina is the poster child for all that is wrong with corporate America these days---golden parachutes for failure.

    Parent

    GA, really?? Failure?? (none / 0) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 11:20:55 AM EST
    Success at Lucent

    By 1998, when Fortune dubbed Carly Fiorina the most powerful woman in business, Fiorina was president of Lucent's Global Service Provider division, the company's core business unit. Selling products that made network communication possible, including networking systems and software for phones, Fiorina rode the rising tide of demand for network technology from American businesses. Under her watch, the company's market share increased in every region for every product.

    Tenure at Hewlett-Packard

    In the summer of 1999, Hewlett-Packard took note of Fiorina's exceptional ability to manage growth in the quickly changing technology field and tagged her to replace retiring president and CEO Lewis Platt. Fiorina holds the notable distinction of being the first woman to take the lead at a Fortune 100 company.

    Note the date.

    Carly Fiorina quickly became a highly visible CEO making several major changes at HP: she streamlined operations combining several different units into fewer, more manageable units. She shook up the sales staff with the mandate "shape up or ship out." In the wake of the dotcom bubble bursting Fiorina announced a controversial merger with Compaq Computers, a move opposed by HP founders' sons Walter Hewlett and David Packard. Fiorina also helped make HP a leader in charitable giving. She launched HP's "Technology for Teaching" program and established programs in other countries to "help bridge the digital divide between technology empowered and technology-excluded communities."

    A year-and-a-half after the Compaq merger, Fiorina claimed victory announcing that HP was a cutting edge company and industry leader in all business categories. But business analysis observed that HP really hadn't changed all that much. Eighty percent of profit still came from the printer division. Morale was down, not up and in 2004, several top executives left the company.

    Link

    Something called the tech bubble burst. And all the suppressed hatred between ex Compaq and HP employees came roaring out.

    And the HP people, who had fought tooth and nail against the merger but had failed to develop new products and markets thus making the merger necessary, took their revenge.

    And they won. That happens. I survived 4 major mergers in my career and while I wasn't a "player" I was close enough to see what was happening and why. Now, did Cary help the company or hurt it?

    "What people fail to comment on is the fact we doubled the size of the company, took the growth rate from 2 percent to 9 percent," she said. "We tripled the rate of innovation to 11 patents a day and went from lagging behind to leading in every product category. We grew jobs here in the U.S. and all over the world. You can't just leave those facts out -- they are as vital to the record as the fact that yes, indeed, I had to make tough calls during tough times. Tough times that many technology companies didn't survive at all."

    Link

    Of course she has had her detractors, fueled by her run in CA all the power of the Demo Left has been used on her. That she has survived is a tribute to:

    What does not kill me makes me stronger.

    That you don't like her is understandable.

    But by any standard she has been a success. She has been in the arena while Hillary has been in the stands.

    And I find it amusing and oh so instructive to watch female leftists attack a woman who has actually accomplished things.

    Can't get off the reservation, eh??

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 02:12:04 PM EST
    Jim. It's well documented that Fiorina was nothing short of a disaster at HP.

    Fiorina said all women of all political stripes owe a debt of gratitude to Hillary. So she was an admirer until she wasn't lol.

    Go back and start screaming about the demon sheep Jim. LOL

    Parent

    GA, demon sheep?? (1.00 / 1) (#124)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 03:48:27 PM EST
    Say what???

    I won't try and explain Carly to you again because...besides being a partisan Democrat, you don't have the background to understand. So just believe what the Lefties tell you...

    And yes, all women owe a debt of gratitude to Hillary. Not only did she validate "Stand by your man" she taught us that she was brave enough to land in a plane while under fire, smart enough to be named for a hero who wasn't yet a hero, and clever enough to lie and not worry about not being caught.

    Parent

    OK Jim... (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Aug 10, 2015 at 09:18:29 AM EST
    ...the idea that you have the background is laughable, but I am pretty sure I do, but more importantly I have the internet with access to people who most certainly do.  I also live here and was here when she was CEO.

    She was a failure in every aspect and was rewarded for her malfeasance very handsomely.  Before her, most people didn't even know what a parachute plan was.  She created a mini-housing collapse in Copperfield, the area where most of the HP employees lived, and very close to the HP compound.  It remains a broken neighborhood, but was once the pearl of the suburbs.

    Instead of looking at what she has to say about her own record, how about Googling people who understand these things, and trust me finding someone who thinks she did good, is the hard search.  The consensus is that she failed at her position with HP.

    A decade after her departure from HP, her legacy is far more questionable than that line suggests. By the time she was forced out of HP after 5 1/2 tumultuous years -- and one long, bruising proxy battle to cement the ultimately unsuccessful mega-merger with Compaq Computer -- HP's shares were worth less than half what they had been when she took over. A devastating 2005 analysis by Fortune's Carol Loomis concluded that Fiorina's merger with Compaq had failed to deliver value for shareholders and failed to position HP to compete better in a rapidly evolving tech world.

    "This was a big bet that didn't pay off, that didn't even come close to attaining what Fiorina and HP's board said was in store," Loomis wrote. And a competing website that Fiorina's camp neglected to register -- CarlyFiorina.org -- on Monday featured row after row of frown-face emoticons to represent the 30,000 people Fiorina laid off in her time at HP.

    LINK

    Jim as a lover of the free market, even you can understand the significance of the price of HP going up the day she left.  Wall Street, presumably, the professionals at grading performance basically said HP is better off without Fiorina.  

    Parent

    I don't know the time frame (none / 0) (#133)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 01:05:39 PM EST
    you speak of but I remember hearing of golden parachutes back in the mid 80's with all the hostile takeovers, etc.

    Before her, most people didn't even know what a parachute plan was.

    And if you will read my comments carefully you will see that I haven't lauded her performance at HP. What I laud is the fact that she got there.

    As I noted she was east coast and HP was a paternal west coast organization. But the fact that the BOD went outside and hired her says that there were problems. There was an obvious lack of new products in the pipeline. That led to the Compaq purchase with all the overlap of people.

    Having been involved in such "mergers" I truly understand what happens. It is bad, sad, etc., but that is what happens.

    I also have seen the culture battles. She notes that she should have fired some people sooner. I have seen that happen. A VP level dude doesn't buy in and poison spreads. The best mergers I have seen were fast, decisive and the folks remaining were told very bluntly, "If you don't like it and don't join then you will be fired."

    What I have seen are complaints about what would have happened no matter who was the boss when the merger happened. And remember. The BOD approved it.

    So I give her E for Effort. She did what was needed to do but wasn't able to fully close the circle. The complaints against her are mostly politically based. You are afraid of her.

    The real question is, did she learn? I think the experience made her stronger and she would be a better leader because of them.

    As for the "professionals" grading her...well, many of them were the same ones that helped ramp up the NASDAQ to unheard of highs by March of 2000 only to see the bubble burst and it run down 50% by March of 2001.

    Parent

    Afraid of her.. (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 01:59:13 PM EST
    the last time you said people were afraid of a candidate it was in regard to that famous baseball groupie Sara Palin.

    Parent
    And you were scared spitless she would (2.00 / 1) (#136)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 03:16:31 PM EST
    be elected.

    And I love your reference to the supposed comic who finally half way apologized.

    But, like GA, you don't have the background to appreciate what was going in HP on so you glom on to whatever the Leftie press tells you to believe.

    What a dog's life you must live. Always watching and waiting to find what you must say and do.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#137)
    by FlJoe on Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 04:21:59 PM EST
    will be having spit coming out of my eyes and.."wherever" if any Republican becomes president.

    Carly's tenure at HP is widely considered a failure, the opinions range from your:

    So I give her E for Effort.
    to abject incompetence:
    A consummate self-promoter, Fiorina was busy pontificating on the lecture circuit and posing for magazine covers while her company floundered.

    Just like any Republican she has her having her past whitewashed. Her bottom line at HP was total fail, there is nothing  political about it.

    Parent

    Really? She was never even (none / 0) (#138)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 05:41:46 PM EST
    close in the polls here.

    Fiorina campaigned as an anti-abortion advocate in 2010, a position that put her at odds with many voters in California, where the state's Constitution protects women's reproductive rights. On the national stage, Fiorina's position could help her in states where being socially conservative is a pre-requisite to even be a part of the Republican political conversation.

    "Never once did she say let's do a poll and see what Californians think about this and I can speak out in a way that I can get the most [votes]," (former campaign staffer-Ed)Davis recalled. "When campaign officials like me would like her to temper her voice ... she won't do that."

    Fiorina struggled with Latino voters, too, particularly after she voiced support for the controversial Arizona law that requires Latinos to carry proof of citizenship, a law that critics say invites rampant discrimination.

    "Latino voters are a growing part of the electorate in California and around the country and Carly Fiorina and the [outside group] supporting her made a major effort to appeal to Latino voters on issues like abortion," Kapolczynski told msnbc. "But in the end, Latino voters looked at her views on immigration and her record of shipping jobs overseas and rejected her."

    You really aren't familiar with her record, are you, Jim?

    Parent

    Oh, (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 06:55:36 PM EST
    man she supported the driving while brown law in AZ. She's as nutty as Sarah Palin only Sarah actually won an election.

    Parent
    He likes women who talk tough (none / 0) (#140)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Aug 12, 2015 at 12:43:42 AM EST
    but haven't done jack sh*t for anything except their own bottom line, as with the case of the Divine Ms. Sarah and the epitome of success, Ms. Fiorina.

    Parent
    A has-been businesswoman (none / 0) (#135)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Aug 11, 2015 at 02:36:01 PM EST
    who ran two companies into the ground and lost her run to become a Senator from California.

    Remember, jondee, it was that Leftie reporter Katie Couric who dared derail Ms. Sarah with unfair questions like what newspapers she reads, a dastardly plot against her by the Lamestream Media that hates everything good and true about this country.

    Expect to see similar complaints about their treatment of he Demon Sheep candidate in the next few months.

    Parent

    Demon Sheep (none / 0) (#125)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 03:54:06 PM EST
    refers to this commercial that was made and never aired when she ran against Tom Campbell in California.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 06:48:59 PM EST
    that's not what Fiorina said. She just flat out said every woman of any political stripe owes Hillary Clinton a debt of gratitude. Nothing about the other stuff you're talking about. I'm sure Hillary has it on tape and you'll be hearing a lot of her saying that should she be on a ticket.

    She was spying on employees at HP and all kinds of stuff Jim. You did a cut and paste from her website but you have no desire to find out the entire story and prefer to live in your fantasy world I'm quite sure.

    Parent

    GA, how about some links??? (none / 0) (#127)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 07:34:40 PM EST
    She went to HP and was determined to change its culture which was laid back west coast stuff. Having lunch with the worker bees sounds wonderful and looks oh so nice to writers who hate capitalism but it is time better spent with development teams working on new products.

    Read the bio of Jobs. He was bounced. No one liked him. But he was driven to make Apple a successful tech company, not a social circle.

    You can see the beginning of what she wanted when she told the sales group to shape up or ship out. No more of the "plank owner" excuses/mentality. As for Grandson's complaints, why wasn't he in there years ago learning the business and leading it? I mean being the mayor of Carmel isn't exactly a position of note.

    But if you want to understand her talents, go back and look at where she came from. The tech industry wasn't known to be female friendly, or for that matter, anything but succeed or ship out. That was true from top to bottom. Who you knew, where you went to school, what you had done last quarter...all of that was meaningless. The question never changes.

    What have you done lately?

    And if Carly had not have gone into politics none of this would be discussed.

    As for Hillary playing Carly's compliment the perfect come back will be:

    ... What difference at this point does it make?

    link

    Parent

    Nice spin job (none / 0) (#128)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 08:00:31 PM EST
    Troll rated for gratuitous insult (none / 0) (#130)
    by sj on Mon Aug 10, 2015 at 12:14:21 PM EST
    besides being a partisan Democrat, you don't have the background to understand.


    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#18)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:14:59 PM EST
    think her gender helped freshen up the same old boilerplate talking points.

    Parent
    No, it isn't sexist. (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:39:57 PM EST
    CaptHowdy: "As for Carly, would it be sexist to say I liked her suit?"

    But that's only because it was empty.

    Parent

    OK!! (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:18:36 PM EST
    up at Brietbart

    No, really.

    This was not your typical cable banter.  For one thing, it was mentioned very early that Scarborough was supposed to be back in the second block.  He sort of walked off with both of them yelling insults and so far he has not been back.

    SCARBOROUGH BATTLES MATTHEWS OVER FIORINA CALLING HILLARY `A LIAR'


    Parent
    Crooks (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:28:37 PM EST
    & Liars

    "I am against candidates calling other candidates liars," Scarborough insisted forcefully. "Have I made that clear?"

    "The trouble is there was an initial support of her position tonight," Matthews argued.

    Scarborough disagreed: "The great thing is this is all on tape! I was... No, no, no! All I said was she did very well in the debate. Her weakest line was her last."

    "Let's get one point clear," Matthews shot back. "If I accuse a person of lying three different times in a row, are you calling them a liar? Three times in a row. She lied, she lied, she lied. Is that calling someone a liar?"

    "You got that," Scarborough grumbled. "You got that to put in your pocket and go for a couple of nights."

    As the segment ended, Matthews warned viewers to "beware" of MSNBC in the morning.

    "The vampire rises at dawn!" he shouted.



    Parent
    Thanks Capt (none / 0) (#98)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 07:21:32 AM EST
    Since I watched Jon and his final show, I at least know what the Tweety/Joe rift is about. They were just trying to inject some excitement into the evening. Even Project Runway was more fun. Make it work people. Heh.

    Parent
    It was nauseating (none / 0) (#7)
    by smott on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 06:38:24 PM EST
    Fiorina handed them their arses though.
    Funny tweet from Gingrich : "they should invite Carly Fiorina back for the 9PM debate".

    That woman ... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:02:12 PM EST
    "She did damage to a great company, and I don't want to see her do damage to a great country."
    - Jason Burnett, grandson of David Packard, HP co-founder,"Carly Fiorina's HP legacy looms large over her 2016 ambitions" (CNN, May 4, 2015)

    ... has no business running for president -- or for that matter, being placed in charge of anything else ever again.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    BUT (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:08:01 PM EST
    I think (none / 0) (#10)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 06:51:02 PM EST
    Fiorina came off the best I think, low bar though. Graham, Santorum and Jindahl are just pathetic. Perry really, really tries but you know, the other two um, um can't remember ,oops.

    Parent
    Oh God the bar was low (none / 0) (#14)
    by smott on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:06:34 PM EST
    Graham was basically spittle flecked raving about war.
    Santorum did his usual gay-bash bit (I gave him points for a remark on increasing manufacturing jobs....)
    Jindhal was meh.
    I thought Perry came off like an idiot....THIS is the guy that was supposed to be at the big kids' table?

    Fiorina may have trashed HP, but she walked away with this debate tonight by a wide margin. Will be interesting to see if she gets any traction in polls.


    Parent

    Perry (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:25:45 PM EST
    is an idiot but it seems Texas loves idiots.

    Parent
    BTD, somehow I don't think any Repub (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:16:24 PM EST
    will care.

    All I have to say is if Trump tries to come all statesman tonight Ima be pissed.

    lol

    What? (none / 0) (#30)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 07:53:45 PM EST
    There is at least some of his supporters who want him to come out swinging. Personally I think Trump will throw his punches at Hillary and Obama and only counter punch if needed.

    That being said, someone will probably take a shot at him. That leaked call from the Big Dog is a hanging curve ball for someone to lay into.

    Parent

    He denied the call. (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 10:23:25 PM EST
    Am watching Luntz now interview a picked group of Repubs who are stabbing Trump over the fact that he won't a agree to support whatever Demo lite the DC crowd runs.

    Parent
    This is the guy who contributed (none / 0) (#92)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 10:28:28 PM EST
    to Hillary's Senate campaign.

    As you like to say, he can run, but can't hide from his past.

    Parent

    Did I hear some "boos" for Christie? (none / 0) (#33)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:05:05 PM EST
    Sure seemed like it.

    I don't know who wrote the material for the panel, but man, do they ever suck.

    Trump's not taking the initial bait, and won't pledge not to run an independent campaign.

    Oh, man (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:05:21 PM EST
    what a disaster of a debate already. They're making them pledge to not run as independent candidates.

    And Donald takes center stage (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:07:21 PM EST
    from the get go

    Parent
    Oh, Jesus - this is gonna be a food fight. (none / 0) (#35)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:06:17 PM EST
    Am guessing this is going to get out of control very quickly.

    gotcha (none / 0) (#37)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:07:37 PM EST
    question for Trump off the bat, Rand jumps in

    After watching (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:10:55 PM EST
    10 minutes of this debate Hillary should start measuring the drapes for the oval office.

    Meghan swings and (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:14:18 PM EST
    misses

    Parent
    Fox (none / 0) (#42)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:17:45 PM EST
    reporters are throwing some heat.

    Parent
    So far (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:15:44 PM EST
    the questions are pretty good.

    I know (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:24:28 PM EST
    and it is showing how sup bar the candidates really are.

    Parent
    Dunno (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:26:16 PM EST
    i liked Rands answer.  I liked Kasichs answer.

    Jeb just committed suicide.  

    Parent

    Please be more specific (none / 0) (#45)
    by Peter G on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:29:40 PM EST
    for those of us who cannot stand to watch and are therefore depending on this thread to tell us what's happening.

    Parent
    He totally stood by his (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:32:16 PM EST
    "Mexicans cross the border for love" thing.  And a path to legal status.

    Parent
    Oh and Rand (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:33:53 PM EST
    said we should stop arming crazies in the ME.  And Kasichs gave a great defense of expanding Medicare.

    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:34:37 PM EST
    MEDICAID

    Parent
    He did (none / 0) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:35:04 PM EST
    and he probably killed off his chances in the GOP primary.

    Parent
    What is Kasich doing (none / 0) (#55)
    by smott on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:37:25 PM EST
    In a Republican debate?

    Parent
    What was Kasich doing in a GOP debate? (none / 0) (#97)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 02:20:53 AM EST
    Probably being the only sober adult in the room. That ought to go over really well with the Republican base.

    Parent
    I still think Kasich (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:39:30 PM EST
    may be one of the last standing.  

    Parent
    Kasich could be trouble (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 06:06:27 PM EST
    He is much better than the Rubio Walker lightweights.

    The rabid base will not settle for the Mr. Rogers-like Jeb Bush....They may settle, however, for Kasich if they cannot have a Rubio, Cruz or Walker right wing nutcase.

     

    Parent

    Not sure about that. (none / 0) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 06:41:24 PM EST
    Mostly because he took the Medicaid expansion and they did that with Romney. If Obamacare is such a job killer as the GOP claims and Kasich is saying that he created jobs despite signing onto Obamacare then I don't think that's going to fly.

    He's also claiming he balanced the budget when he voted against Clinton's budget reconciliation act. So on the surface you are right but like all the others once you dig deeper you see they are full of it.  

    Parent

    Only (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:41:57 PM EST
    if they can get past him expanding Obamacare in Ohio.

    Parent
    If (none / 0) (#112)
    by FlJoe on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 07:16:14 AM EST
    I was the grand poobah of the GOP I would appoint Kaisch right now. He is like all the rest, but he wears a thin veneer of humanity. Great resume and little apparent baggage. Also Ohio is often the ultimate swing state.

    Parent
    They don't seem to have a Grand Poobah (none / 0) (#114)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Aug 08, 2015 at 08:48:57 AM EST
    They're running around like Archie Bunker bobbleheads in a kintergarten glass with no teacher.

    Parent
    He did. (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:30:36 PM EST
    Kasich at least stood up for himself. Rand probably helped himself some though not in the GOP primary.

    Again, the only reason Jeb is still in is because he has a ton of money. J-E-B is the way you are going to be spelling bad investment from now on.

    Parent

    Rubio (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:31:51 PM EST
    is not impressive at all.

    How about Cruz, (none / 0) (#61)
    by Peter G on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:45:04 PM EST
    the Harvard debater and former U.S. Supreme Court advocate?

    Parent
    You mean Mr. Haney? Green Acres Ted? (none / 0) (#63)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:47:41 PM EST
    The man's a loon.

    Parent
    lol. Which one's Hank Kimble? (none / 0) (#66)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:53:42 PM EST
    Chris Christie can be Arnold.

    Parent
    Huckabee (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:55:35 PM EST
    definitely

    Parent
    Kimble was my favorite character. (none / 0) (#76)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:05:50 PM EST
    Well, not my favorite character...

    Parent
    Pretty (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:48:37 PM EST
    lacklustet

    Parent
    great to hear (none / 0) (#67)
    by Peter G on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:54:52 PM EST
    tnx

    Parent
    Lackluster (none / 0) (#71)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:01:30 PM EST
    He had no good response to him calling McConnell a liar.

    Parent
    Very detailed in his answers (none / 0) (#90)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 10:26:06 PM EST
    He probably picked off some of Trump's base.

    Parent
    I would (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:36:39 PM EST
    have to say I would be embarrassed to be a Re Republican after this debate and that statement has nothing to do with The Donald.

    Holy (none / 0) (#62)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:46:25 PM EST
    Crap , DOCTOR Carson just endorsed torture ???

    Parent
    And taxes are like (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:54:54 PM EST
    Tithing?  WTF.

    Parent
    Did he mean... (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by unitron on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 12:48:52 AM EST
    ...that they're a moral obligation, or that they shouldn't be more than 10%?

    Parent
    Embarrassed to be an American (none / 0) (#111)
    by Palli on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 09:36:17 PM EST
    God no... (none / 0) (#54)
    by desertswine on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:36:56 PM EST
    I can't watch anymore.  That's it for me.

    Holy crap (none / 0) (#56)
    by smott on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:39:29 PM EST
    The gloves are off!!!

    This is why (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:40:21 PM EST
    we watch.

    Parent
    Jeb! (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 08:57:22 PM EST
    is starting to look a little desperate.

    I watch Jeb only in the hope that I'll catch (none / 0) (#74)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:04:34 PM EST
    the giveaway planar, dual reflection off his glasses - the telltale that they're props.  So far I haven't noticed it.  They may be legit, even if Jeb isn't.

    Parent
    Kasich (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:02:47 PM EST
    talked about reaching out to minorities and people who are suffering in this country. The audience was silent.

    Republicans lack empathy (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by smott on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:04:57 PM EST
    That's a personality disorder isn't it?

    Parent
    The only (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:06:27 PM EST
    one that has one scintilla of empathy for the suffering in this country is Kasich. The rest of them talk about the people in this country like they are varmints.

    Parent
    I'm waiting for one of them to champion (none / 0) (#78)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:09:52 PM EST
    Soylent Green.

    Parent
    It will be (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:14:36 PM EST
    Carson.

    Parent
    The moderators are gunning for Donald (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:14:10 PM EST
    as so far no one has laid a glove on him.  

    At least in any way his fans will care about.

    His ego is bulletproof. (none / 0) (#82)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:17:05 PM EST
    Nope (none / 0) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 09:25:31 PM EST
    he's still standing and I expect his numbers will either stay the same or increase from the debate.

    Parent
    Trump is done! (none / 0) (#91)
    by coast on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 10:27:52 PM EST
    now we can all move on to better things.

    Was there two different debates? (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 06, 2015 at 10:32:12 PM EST
    thats not the one I saw.

    Parent
    I made it through about 10 minutes (none / 0) (#100)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 08:04:13 AM EST
    I read about Huckabee's comment about the military's purpose being to kill people and break things.

    Jee-bus.

    I guess I thought more of those in uniform.

    This from the guy who reveres life... (none / 0) (#101)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 08:19:04 AM EST
    words fail.

    Parent
    But it mostly is :) (none / 0) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 09:01:11 AM EST
    We only adopted Petraeus' warm fuzzy to civilians of other countries policies because everyone was getting killed and we were losing :)

    Parent
    I haven't watched the debate in full (none / 0) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 07, 2015 at 08:33:41 AM EST
    But I have seen clips. I just watched Huckabee answer the military transgender question and show off how he has no understanding of meeting military mission, even though his redneck audience cheered like he was a God.

    What went down that fast tracked the lifting of DADT had nothing to do with using military culture to change American society.  Military Intelligence officers had for years warned that DADT made those serving in MI vulnerable. Originally they feared that anyone in MI having same sex sex could easily be blackmailed.  What happened with Chelsea Manning revealed layers of vulnerability though. And it was Manning that blew DADT out of the water. Manning had a female gay commander abusing him and no place to turn, because when he explained things as they stood to a counselor, he was relieved of duty for admitting he wasn't straight. Double betrayal of the system he belonged to.  When you read the Lamo logs it's all there.  So...we can't have soldiers easily isolated or made vulnerable simply for being human beings.  Chelsea Manning was a young very decorated analyst who based on past preformance should have had a long and very successful career.

    Secondly, discussing whether or not the military will pay for transgender medical treatments.  This is once again something the military will contemplate for mission reasons.  There is nothing warm and fuzzy about the discussion that will take place.  It is about retention and keeping the best and brightest until their full potential has been used by the Pentagon.  The military power structure really isn't capable of caring deeply about American culture, it really doesn't give a shit (at least Huckabee got that part right). They are a selfish institution that lives a lizard brained survival instinct existence.

    In the same fashion that the military decided to foot the bill for couples dealing with infertility to figure out how to have ONE child, one soldier settling accomplishment focusing wee dependent, the military will now discuss transgender medical treatments. We have ex SEALs running around in high heels.  The military isn't NOT going to have this conversation.