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Fight Night: The Final Debate

The third and final debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump begins in a few minutes.

I don't think it's Trump's last chance -- he had that a while ago. I hope Hillary does well.

Here's a thread to discuss it.

Update (the end): Trump was horrible. If he prepared, it didn't show. There were no hand shakes at the beginning or end. Shorter version: Trump may not accept the results of the election.

He certainly does not have the temperment to be President. He doesn't know how to debate -- he only knows how to name-call. He called Hillary "such a nasty woman." He also said, "John Podesta said some terrible things about you and boy was he right." He says Sanders says she has bad judgment. Hillary responds that Bernie is supporting her and that Bernie said "Trump is the most dangerous person to run for President in American history."

Trump is losing this debate badly. He limped into it and he didn't help himself. [More...]

Update 7:57: Trump is now off the rails. He said Hillary's "sleazy" campaign is behind the 9 accusations of sexual misconduct against him. He interrupts her constantly, to pipe in things like "wrong." He said all 9 of the women are lying. He's not apologizing because he didn't do anything wrong. Then he adds, we should be talking about her emails.

Update 7:51: Trump just cursed. "What the hell..." This was after Hillary pointed out that he used Chinese steel to build the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas. Hillary is strongly responding to his insults. Trump also called her a "liar" at one point. Now he's saying she and Obama gave us ISIS. Trump repeats himself.

Update 7:33 pm: It took a half hour but Trump's lost his cool. He's back to being the Interrupter in chief who wanders all over the place. He's totally off script now. [More...] Earlier Updates: Update: Donald Trump sounds like he's imitating Alec Baldwin. He's got his low and monotone voice on. Hillary's response on the Supreme Court sounded a little scripted at the beginning.

Update: Hillary believes in an individual right to bear arms. While I oppose restrictions on the Second Amendment (and any other right in the bill of rights), that's good enough for me.

Trump will put pro-life justices on the Court. He says the issue will then go back to the states. Hillary confirms she's a strong believer in Roe v. Wade. She will defend Planned Parenthood. We've come too far to turn back now on a woman's right to choose her own health care.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Hillary killing it... (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:59:35 PM EST
    discussing Donald's dirty.

    Trump gets giggled out of the room practically.

    The longer this segment goes the better.

    OMG - I am shocked (5.00 / 6) (#13)
    by Peter G on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 09:08:44 PM EST
    that he wouldn't say he will accept the results of the election. I'm astonished.

    Perhaps (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 10:30:56 PM EST
    the most un-American thing a presidential candidate has ever said at a debate.

    Parent
    He has to wait and see Peter (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 11:09:06 PM EST
    Because he's some sort of privileged Lord

    Of War

    Parent

    Didn't Bush steal (none / 0) (#25)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 05:47:17 AM EST
    the 2000 election

    And again in 2004 in Ohio?

    Don't many still believe that today.

    Plenty has been written about it.

    The simple fact is that the American people already believe that elections are rigged and stolen.

    Trumps campaign has stated that they will accept the results of the election, but The Donald did say last night, that he would wait and see.

    Parent

    So? (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Yman on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 07:54:24 AM EST
    People can "believe" whatever they want.  What you have here is a US Presidential candidate making an accusation of voter fraud - before the election has occurred and with no evidence - then refusing to say he will accept the results.  

    He - and those defending him on this - are a joke.

    Parent

    "Can we just stop, just for a second, because that was absolutely, completely and totally insane!"

    LINK.

    Parent

    Hmmmmm...whatever it takes to be a Trump (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 07:57:58 AM EST
    Apologist Trevor. So let us go back in the way back machine. Oh yes, Broward County had issues. And since my grandmother worked elections, let us keep in mind that recounts happen. A very close race triggers an automatic recount in some states. Al Gore made his concession speech and phone call congratulating Bush though. That was all considered part of the norm even if a recount was occurring.

    People who we thought were residents began protesting the recount. Later we would discover they weren't Broward residents, they were GOP operatives bussed in. For the sake of the stability of the Democracy the Supreme Court ruled to stop the recount and call the election for Bush.

    Later, a couple of major newspapers would gain permission to recount and they discovered that Al Gore had won. Nobody took up arms though or threatened people, we moved on for only one reason, the stability of the democracy.

    In 2004 when some did attempt to Go There on DailyKos, Markos threw them off the blog. He would not have it.

    So uhhhhm no Trevor. You couldn't be more false in this equivalency.

    Parent

    And just who are you, exactly, ... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 10:20:08 AM EST
    TrevorBolder: "The simple fact is that the American people already believe that elections are rigged and stolen."

    ... that you would presume to speak on behalf of the entire nation like that? Because you most certainly don't speak for me or anybody else here, whether it be on this issue or any other matter under discussion.

    To the extent that some citizens have lost faith in the integrity of our electoral processes, the blame and responsibility for such suspicions can be fairly laid at the feet of white Republicans like yourself, with your fact-free assertions and baseless accusations about voter fraud -- which are almost always leveled at people of color, BTW -- and your wholly undeserved airs of political entitlement, which lead you to believe that your specious points of views are somehow representative of the American people.

    You speak only for yourself.

    Parent

    "The American people believe.." (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 11:17:11 AM EST
    is almost always, invariably, the beginning overture to a rushing tidal wave of right wing bullsh*t..

    It's somewhat related to Jim's famous standby "everybody knows."

    Parent

    To be fair... (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 11:27:28 AM EST
    I had my doubts in 2004 and Diebold, and correct if I'm wrong, so did many others here in the TL comments section at that dark time.

    Meanwhile, while some folks get all worked up about uber-minor voter fraud allegations here or there...the two ton pink elephant of undue influence rigging our elections goes unmentioned....THE MONEY!  

    Parent

    You won the point, kdog (none / 0) (#40)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 01:17:43 PM EST
    Follow the money.  Always.

    Personally, I'm eagerly awaiting the Clinton Foundation's return to Haiti.  So Bill can once again make the rubble safe for Wireless.

    Parent

    And turn the rubble to gold... (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 01:56:13 PM EST
    for connected non-Haitian contractors.

    Why give a Haitian ten grand his or herself a simple dwelling when you give a foreign-based contractor corp. 100 grand to build a dwelling Haitians don't want to live in?  And the sweatshops, nothing like a natural disaster to pave the way for new sweatshops.

    Parent

    Kerry lost the 2004 election ... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 01:41:45 PM EST
    ... because he failed to stand up for himself when he got swiftboated. A mere seven words would've likely been sufficient for him to put Bush away that year: "Mr. President, you are a damned liar." That's what many voters were waiting and longing to hear, yet he was either too nice or too afraid to utter them, even when his own character and reputation were being falsely slurred and despicably smeared by Bush's right-wing toadies.

    Both the 2000 and 2004 elections should've rightly been slam dunks for Democrats, had only Al Gore and Kerry had the cojones to do to Bush and Cheney what the Republicans ended up doing to both of them. That both races wound up being close enough to steal -- assuming that was indeed the case on either occasion -- is entirely on us.

    As the late House Speaker Tip O'Neill once rightly observed, politics ain't beanbag. All our whining ex post facto about Diebold and hanging chads and Brooks Bothers riots took us nowhere then, and gets us nothing now. We got the results we deserved, because we didn't have it in us to do what it takes to win. And let that be a lesson to us in perpetuity as we move forward.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Drumpf has made it clear (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 09:32:42 PM EST
    he has absolutely no clue about economics or the makeup of our own government. He claimed Roe vs. Wade would be overturned "immediately." He doesn't understand how the court works. The Prez doesn't pick what's decided on. A case has to to make it's way through the court system and accepted by the Supremes to even be considered. He doesn't know what GDP is. But unfortunately most of the people who will vote for him don't know this stuff either.

    It goes beyond him and his voting base. (none / 0) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 09:56:44 PM EST
    GOP elected officials don't understand how government works either. This became obvious to me during the 11 hours of Benghazi hearing.

    Parent
    "Such a nasty woman." (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 09:40:53 PM EST
    Let the landslide begin.

    But, but ... (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Peter G on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 09:48:11 PM EST
    No one respects women more than he does. No one. Just ask him. But don't ask any women.

    Parent
    Text from my mother to my spouse: (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 10:38:55 PM EST
    NASTY WOMEN OF AMERICA: Just a reminder to please attend our upcoming coven on October 31, where we will discuss current plans to canvass cemeteries for Hillary and raise 4 million voters from the dead. RSVP.

    Parent
    Could it be that Tr*mp is secretly (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Peter G on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 07:42:21 PM EST
    a Frank Zappa fan? His comment may refer to the lyrics of "Brown Shoes Don't Make It." At least when you consider the comment about Ivanka he made to Howard Stern.
    She's a Teenage Baby and she turns me on
    I'd like to make her do a nasty on the White House lawn
    Going to smother that daughter in chocolate syrup
    And boogie till the cows come home

    Can't believe it's the 50th anniversary of the release of that album. I left my high school senior prom early, with my date and another couple, to hear the Mothers play in some basement club in NYC.

    Parent
    Frank Zappa is definitely an acquired taste. (none / 0) (#53)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 08:15:01 PM EST
    I only acquired it because a UW dorm mate was really into Zappa in my junior year, and he played his music all the time while we were passing the bong. I initially didn't care for Zappa and the Mothers, and it took some prolonged exposure before I finally began to see and appreciate the genius in his work.

    Parent
    don't give him any ideas.. (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 08:56:42 PM EST
    maybe he could go with Frank's flight of fancy in Magdalena to cover her in mayonnaise and kaopectate and take her down to Hollywood Boulevard to walk by the stars that say Jon Provost and Leo G Carroll..

    Parent
    Is your mother interested in adoption? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 11:06:27 PM EST
    I am an orphan you know. With a mum like that, sky's the limit! I could realize my full potential.

    Parent
    I'm proud to say that all the women in my family -- including the Republicans -- are planning to vote for Hillary Clinton. In fact, they're now eager to do so. Trump's disgraceful and disrespectful behavior has pi$$ed them off royally, and he's turned this into a statement-making election for them.

    Parent
    "'Cause privacy is my middle name,
    My last name is Control.
    No, my first name ain't 'Baby,'
    It's Hillary.
    Mrs. Clinton, if you're nasty."

    "LINK.

    Parent

    No handshake (none / 0) (#1)
    by Peter G on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:05:48 PM EST
    Not even a move in that direction.

    So far, half hour in, (none / 0) (#2)
    by Peter G on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:30:46 PM EST
    Tr*mp is exercising self-control. Not interrupting, not stalking, not making faces. Can he maintain this? His people gave him good advice and somehow he seems to be taking it (again, so far).

    you were 3 minutes too soon (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:35:12 PM EST
    He's lost it now

    Parent
    Yes, for about five minutes (none / 0) (#9)
    by Peter G on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:46:01 PM EST
    but then he got back to the strained self-control (relatively speaking). Except for the tendency to interject, which he really cannot control.

    Parent
    Nice little Fox-jab, Wallace.. (none / 0) (#7)
    by jondee on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:36:41 PM EST
    "in a speech you were paid 250 thousand dollars for.."

    Parent
    She went a cruisin'... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 11:29:39 AM EST
    for that lil bruisin'...just sayin'.  

    I got all excited when I heard she was for open borders...I'm for open borders. Though I'm sure my definition differs from the business class definition of open borders.

    Parent

    Open borders and closed union shops (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 11:45:43 AM EST
    is what I'm for.

    Parent
    Now we're cooking! (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 12:03:29 PM EST
    This Is What She Actually Said (none / 0) (#33)
    by RickyJim on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 11:41:28 AM EST
    "My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere."

    Can anybody explain what in the world she meant?  I don't get the connection between green sustainable energy and open borders.

    Parent
    The Land of Oz? (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 11:53:44 AM EST
    This "growth" magical mantra needs to be deconstructed as well..

    In actual historical practice, it doesn't always coexist well with "green and sustainable"..

    Parent

    I took it to mean extending our energy grid (none / 0) (#37)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 12:06:53 PM EST
    into places in Mexico to help facilitate development in underserved areas.

    Parent
    Our grid? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 01:20:53 PM EST
    That's yesterday's oligopoly news, vic.

    Mexico abounds in sunlight, high altitude sunlight.

    Solar's getting cheaper and they don't need gringo handouts or exploitation.

    Parent

    I had to guess... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 12:07:16 PM EST
    she means open borders for money...not people.

    Ya know, so the hemispheres banksters & grifters can hide the loot from the various taxmen or iou holders, and park it in New York & San Francisco Real Estate when the markets go ka-blooey.

    Parent

    And Instead of Explaining What She Meant, (none / 0) (#42)
    by RickyJim on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 01:36:35 PM EST
    Hillary used the "open borders" quote to launch a diatribe against Trump for being a Putin puppet for daring to read the Wikileaks account of her speeches. For me, that was her worse moment of the debate.

    Parent
    But Trump IS a Putin puppet, Ricky Jim. (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 01:58:08 PM EST
    How very sad and utterly pathetic it is that so many conservative Americans are all too ready and willing to place their political faith in a Russian intelligence operation that was launched against their own country, merely because they so desperately want to believe its purported revelations can tilt an election in their favor, or at least win that day's news cycle for their side.

    And then they have the phuquing chutzpah to wrap themselves in the American flag and impugn other people's patriotism. Hillary Clinton is going to need a much bigger basket.

    Oy.

    Parent

    The Evidence is Weak (none / 0) (#48)
    by RickyJim on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 03:09:36 PM EST
    I can't imagine Trump taking orders from anybody but himself.  Clinton's use of an updated version of red baiting contributes to the unease I have with how she will conduct herself as POTUS.  Of course, I fear a Trump presidency much more.  But even Hillary's most devoted fans shouldn't be so certain that her judgment will be impeccable, especially as regards to foreign affairs.

    Parent
    It wouldn't necessarily mean Trump (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 06:12:45 PM EST
    is "taking orders"..it would more than likely be a you-scratch-my-back-I-scatch-your-back, mutually beneficial arrangement with Putin..

    "taking orders from Putin-Stalin-
    Lenin" is just typical silly season hyperbole tailored to cast Trump in the worst possible light.

    Parent

    The term is "quid pro quo." (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 07:47:43 PM EST
    And in this particular case, Putin helps Trump get elected president, and then Trump works to undermine the NATO alliance.

    Ain't it funny how the quid isn't really a pro for Republicans, if the quo so happens to be on their side?

    This is no trivial or laughing matter.

    Parent

    I agree... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 01:51:47 PM EST
    the original hacker source of the wikileaked materials, and their intentions, is another story, and an important one.

    But that was not the question.  She pulled a Patches O'Hoolihan's Five D's on that one...dodge, dive, duck, dip, dodge.  Or what Trump does with every question he's asked;)

    Parent

    Hillary has a history (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 05:58:16 PM EST
    of exploiting and abusing that other magical-mantra-word "open"..

    In her debates with Bernie, she went to bat for Kissinger by claiming he helped "open" the 1984ish surveillance society China with it's thousands of political prisoners.

    Open is this case meaning opened mainly for the investor class, who (theoretically) trickle down their stream of beneficence on the rest of us -- from a considerable height.

    Parent

    What's with Donald squinting all the time? (none / 0) (#3)
    by sallywally on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:32:55 PM EST
    His eyes look like angry, evil-eyes. Does this illustrate his difficulty with concentration?  His face is remarkably red and tense and he is sniffing again.

    I think that's his defensive posture (none / 0) (#6)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:35:59 PM EST
    He is always in defensive mode when Hillary speaks, and he squints

    Parent
    im not watching (none / 0) (#5)
    by linea on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:35:37 PM EST
    the whole thing obviously. too boring.

    • third debate and he finally "pivots to presidential" (months late).
    • hillary loves guns too but wants "sensible" legislation.
    • trump will appoint pro-life justices.
    • i like hillary's cream-coloured jacket.
    • hillary doesnt like countries that force women to have children "Like they used to do in Romania." odd choice as an example because it's what they do now in saudi arabia.
    • hillary wants border security "i voted for border security" but doesnt want to separate families that are already here.
    • trump says he will speed up the process for legal immigration.
    • moderator quotes one of hillary's paid speeches, "My dream, is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders."
    • trump is losing his presidential.


    Pennsylvania can't fill (none / 0) (#8)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:43:23 PM EST
    the jobs we have available here. Drumpf doesn't know what he's talking about.

    But, he's been talking to people (none / 0) (#10)
    by jondee on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:50:05 PM EST
    in Pennsylvania..Ohio..Florida..

    Parent
    debate notes 2 (none / 0) (#11)
    by linea on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 08:53:27 PM EST
    • trump discusses nafta and the suffering of american families.
    • hilary criticises donald for buying chinese steel.
    • trump says hillary lost 6-billion dollars while at the state department.
    • hillary says she helped african american kids.
    • trump says "she gave us isis."


    debate notes 3 (none / 0) (#14)
    by linea on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 09:13:21 PM EST
    • donald being boorish is the topic.
    • trump rebuts by bringing up hillary's emails.
    • trump is very frown-y.
    • moderator asks clinton about special access for donars and "pay to play."
    • moderator interupts because she isnt answering the question.
    • trump mentions 25-million dollars to clinton foundation from saudi arabia.
    • bill and hillary helped haiti.
    • hillary is troubled that donald hasnt released his tax return.
    • trump plugs trump tower.
    • moderator asks donald about "rigged" elections.

    that's it for me. blah blah. from my perspective, all anybody needs to remember is that there is a open position on scotus: hillary will appoint a pro-choice justice and donald will appoint a pro-life justice. other than naming justices, presidents dont really get much done do they?

    Ru-roh... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 19, 2016 at 09:13:24 PM EST
    I denigrate our democracy a lot.

    Not the good spirit, just the shady execution.

    and then there's this unscripted moment (none / 0) (#39)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 20, 2016 at 12:18:26 PM EST
    Not a good night