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Sunday Night TV and Open Thread

The Critics Choice Awards are on A&E tonight. Why you should watch? T.J. Miller is hosting. I love TJ -- I carpooled him to school from the second grade until high school.

TJ got arrested early Friday a.m. in LA after his Uber driver claimed he swatted him in the back of the head after they disagreed about Donald Trump. T.J. said on Twitter today he'll discuss "the elephant in the room" during tonight's show. He really didn't, but he did talk about how movies and TV can bring us together.

We are one television, one couch, one potato.

His only reference to the UnPresident-Elect:
"Trolls did well this year. Not the movie. The ones on the internet. One got elected president."

He'll be on James Corden Tuesday night with Jennifer Lawrence. His latest movie, Office Christmas Party, with Jennifer Anniston, opened Friday.

Congrats to James Corden and the Late Late Show which won best talk show.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome, TV related or not.

< SNL: Walter White Will Head the DEA | "El Mochomito" (Beltran-Guzman) Arrested in Jalisco >
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  • Display: Sort:
    With all this Russian (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by KeysDan on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 06:08:34 PM EST
    hacking and calls for investigation, can we  expect a blizzard of 3 in the morning Trump tweets--attacking movie stars and late night comedians?  Look at the shiny object over here strategy.

    Tonight's deflection is . . . (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:22:48 PM EST
    that the large orange lout is calling off the promised press conference this week -- the first since early summer -- on his plans for his "ethical" (yeh, I am laughing at typing that term about him) handling of his businesses until . . . mid-January.

    So, the Electoral College won't have those answers, either, when it is to act next week.  Heck, the House won't even have those answers when it is to act in the first week of January.

    Newsweek's excellent Kurt Eichenwald just tweeted that the delay is due to the lout's camp finding out that Newsweek is out tomorrow with a report on an investigation into the lout's businesses. . . .

    And remember this:  

    It isn't just about what the large orange lout owns.  

    It's also about what the large orange lout owes.

    And the latter includes an estimated (without his tax returns, of course) many hundreds of millions owed to overseas businesses, bankers, and more.

    Parent

    Yes, that (none / 0) (#106)
    by KeysDan on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 11:10:25 PM EST
    promised press conference on handling his business affairs is likely to be postponed until that time he releases his tax returns.  Best, too, to wait until he is the president for more effective bullying.

    Parent
    Today's defection is (none / 0) (#137)
    by KeysDan on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 05:36:20 PM EST
    Kanye West.  No more media questions about his dry spell in press conferences, Russia, why the "postponement" of his not so blind trust. The media fell for the visit with Kim's husband and they talked about "life."  

    Parent
    Sadly, not a defection, apparently, (none / 0) (#141)
    by Peter G on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 06:40:55 PM EST
    but rather, a deflection.

    Parent
    And when one is a celebrity who's now famous for being known as Mr. Kim Kardashian, one will do practically anything to feed that jones of notoriety -- which includes embarrassing one's self as only a real fool can.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:31:36 PM EST
    now Trump's business interests are interfering with national security. Erdogan is attempting to blackmail Trump over his partner in Trump Towers in Istanbul to get some cleric who resides in PA back in Turkey.

    GOP trolls he's your problem and you are going to have to do something about it.

    This is literally (none / 0) (#128)
    by CST on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 02:24:23 PM EST
    My worst nightmare.

    Parent
    Trump actually (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:45:06 PM EST
    went ahead and picked Putin stooge Tillerson for SOS. How many Putin stooges and Neo Nazis are we up to now? I have lost count.

    Actually Tillerson (none / 0) (#110)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 06:04:28 AM EST
    Is getting some good reviews, Robert Gates, James Baker,  and Condi Rice give him a thumbs up.

    Stooge? So, you are telling me that Tillerson knowingly and willingly negotiated with Russia to the detriment of Exxon ? That he did Putins bidding?
    What planet are you from?
    I would say Tillerson cleaned Putins clock, that company has been an impressive success. They have more offices, in more countries, and more employees than the State Department.
    And , I dare say, he will not keep classified e mails on a private server.

    Just because someone has business dealings with Russia, lol, does not make them a stooge. In fact, it is an asset, they know the playing field.

    Parent

    Did you know (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by mm on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 12:34:26 PM EST
    Gates, Baker and Condi are all paid consultants for Tillerson/Exxon?  

    Parent
    Rice, Hadley and Gates, (none / 0) (#125)
    by KeysDan on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    is a consulting firm that includes Exxon as a client.  Miss Rice has long been involved in oil and gas, having had a 129,000 ton oil tanker, The Condolezza Rice, named after her by Chevron.  Exxon, (Standard Oil of New Jersey) and Chevron (Standard Oil of California), before the Supreme Court breakup of John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil, still have certain relationships such as some integrated operations.

    Parent
    Tillerson (none / 0) (#111)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 07:05:59 AM EST
    received the Order of Friendship from Putin. He has close ties to the Russian state run oil company Rosneft. He stood against the US and with Russia regarding the sanctions regarding Crimea. And people like Condi Rice and James Baker have ties to Exxon. So them supporting him should be taken with a grain of salt.

    Seriously. After all the news that Trump has ties to Putin it would seem the last person he would want as SOS is someone with ties to Putin.

    Apparently you are okay with Putin running the US. I am not.

    Parent

    Your little Cuban (none / 0) (#112)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 07:43:59 AM EST
    fellow says being a friend of Vladimir is not a good thing. ROTFLMAO. Private server? ROTFLMAO. Hillary was smart because Putin couldn't get in her server. Tillerson won't need it because he'll just be handing top secret information directly over to Putin. Trump already has that server from Trump towers going directly to the Kremlin. Tillerson can just send it on Trump's server.

    Parent
    Don't be (none / 0) (#113)
    by FlJoe on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 07:49:41 AM EST
    silly,
    So, you are telling me that Tillerson knowingly and willingly negotiated with Russia to the detriment of Exxon ?
    Of course not! I expect Exxon to do what's good for Exxon and Putin to do what's good for Putin. I will give you one guess who was left out of that equation.

    Somebody is indeed going to have their clock cleaned, and you can bet your bottom dollar it won't be the oligarchs of any nationality.

    Looks like you are still living on planet email.

    Parent

    Sigh (none / 0) (#140)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 06:34:38 PM EST
    Quite simply, Tillerson is very accomplished, and has acquired a unique skill set negotiating with many foreign leaders, and operating a behemoth of a organization.

    He will now take that skill set and put it to good use for the United States of America.

    The Senate hearings will be interesting, I fully expect him to win the confidence of the American public after those hearings.

    Parent

    Do (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by FlJoe on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 06:44:43 PM EST
    we get to see his emails ?

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 07:17:13 PM EST
    I expect the film of him toasting champagne with Putin to be run in a loop along with talk of him siding against the US.

    I would not be surprised to see Tillerson not get out of committee with some of the pictures. Can you imagine those senators having to go back home and run for reelection with ads running with Tillerson toasting champagne with Putin and they voted to put Tillerson in? Also Putin hanging a Fried of Russia medal on Tillerson. You know the saying about a picture being worth 1,000 words.  

    Parent

    This (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 10:22:03 PM EST
    article explains deeper the Trump Russia connection and talks about the contacts the Trump campaign made with the Russians. According to this article there is some serious intel on Trump and what we have seen so far is just the tip of the iceberg.

    Finally, a wonderful Cabinet Appointment: (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by KeysDan on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 01:43:16 PM EST
    Rick Perry, former governor of TX and former Republican candidate for president, has been nominated to be Secretary of Energy.

     A fitting successor to DR. Ernest Monez,  (Ph.D, theoretical physics, Stanford University), former department head of physics and director of Bates Linear Accelerator Center, MIT.

     While not as academically qualified, Perry does now wear rather smart looking eye glasses and showed a great deal of energy in his last job, "Dancing with the Stars."  And, he has been reported to have eaten an energy bar, from time to time.

    Perry's nomination may recall his "oops moment," in that the Department of Energy was the third and senior moment department he vowed to get rid of, if he could only remember which one it was.

     Of course, Perry does come from an oil and gas State, so he has all that expertise--if only he was nominated for Secretary of Interior--oops, once again, since the Department of Energy deals so much in Nuclear Security.   But, still, it a good Texas nomination since it could have been Louie Gohmert.

    DOE rebuffs witch hunt... (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by desertswine on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 10:38:57 PM EST
    The U.S. Energy Department said on Tuesday it will not comply with a request from President-elect Donald Trump's Energy Department transition team for the names of people who have worked on climate change and the professional society memberships of lab workers.

    It's going to be a rocky transition for Mr. Oops.

    Parent

    Yeah, that dip (none / 0) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 02:03:00 PM EST
    wad can saw oops, I hit the wrong button and blew up my home state of Texas.

    Parent
    ... has a Ph.D in theoretical physics from Stanford. Next month, it'll be THIS GUY.

    Parent
    Sigh -- My anger continues to boil over re: this (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Cashmere on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 02:35:38 PM EST
    election.  I have read your posts above...  my depression looms.  I have several high school friends from a suburb of Portland, OR that I grew up in (Gresham, OR), and it leans conservative.  As such, many (even two of my best girlfriends) voted for Trump.  It has resulted in some tense Facebook posts and perhaps the loss of said friends.  I've made some comments I'm not proud of,  Oh well, we haven't been that close for a long time.  I really can't tolerate people that voted for Trump and are now ecstatic over his election.  I just don't care to associate with people that believe in the big orange lout (I got this from someone on this site)...  if they believe in the likes of the Donald..  they are not my kind of people.  I will still tolerate family, but long lost friends..  not so much.

    I think it (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 02:56:43 PM EST
    has been that way for a lot of people. Seriously this is like the civil war where families and friends were pitted against each other. The good news is that there are more of us that supported Hillary than anybody else. The bad news is we have a Putin stooge entering the oval office unless the GOP does something to stop it from happening. Seeing how cowardly and craven the GOP has been I certainly expect them to do nothing but make excuses for Trump and to do nothing about the Putin interference.

    Parent
    I know, I know. . . . (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Towanda on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 08:56:45 PM EST
    Hey, I'm only a block away right now from a right wingnut rally -- and only a few miles away from tonight's stop on the"Thank You Tour" rally, where idiot Rep. Sean Duffy just said that my state turning red went "over the edge" on election night for the large orange lout.

    The colloquialism is "over the top," idiot Duffy.

    (p.s. I suspect you picked it up from me; glad you like it! I came up with it when my spouse started the day after the election with a rant, and I asked that he never again do so before I have a cup of coffee -- and, indeed, join me in not allowing that name in our house. So, if we must discuss what is happening in our world, we use this term. . . .)

    Parent

    Yes - It was you, and "large (none / 0) (#157)
    by Cashmere on Wed Dec 14, 2016 at 05:27:04 AM EST
    orange lout" was the correct term... so much better than big orange lout.

    Parent
    The Assad regime along with Russia (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 03:42:23 PM EST
    Have taken Allepo. Reports that everyone is being slaughtered including the children.

    Sorry...Aleppo (none / 0) (#132)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 03:43:06 PM EST
    So, the safe passage agreement (none / 0) (#144)
    by caseyOR on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 06:51:17 PM EST
    fell apart in Aleppo ?

    Parent
    Safe passage begins at 11 pm EST (none / 0) (#152)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 09:16:02 PM EST
    6 am in Aleppo. Who knows how well it will go.

    Parent
    And no dice CST (none / 0) (#159)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Dec 14, 2016 at 07:33:36 AM EST
    I sort of figured when Russia said they were monitoring by drone and 100,000 escaped. Such a nice high feel good round number. We were being told bullshit. Assad wants them all dead, all of them, even their children.

    The rest of the country is Sunni, and he's going to mass execute Sunnis? Such a fool. And Russia aided him. It's really going to be on now. Full on war, Sunni vs them. They probably think Trump will join them or just watch, the US won't be at the UN shaking the walls after January 20th.


    Parent

    everything (none / 0) (#148)
    by linea on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 07:29:46 PM EST
    that is happening is caused by the america proxy war and those americans who are pro-military. the 400,000 killed, the refugees, all of it. the usa funded the "good" jihadists, provided high-tech weapons, provided training, and covertly assigned cia military advisors through every part of this. this was instigated, funded, and managed by the usa military and usa political leaders.

    from nytimes.com:
    Some of the rebel groups boasted at the time that powerful TOW antitank missiles provided by American and Saudi intelligence operatives were a key to their success. For several years, the C.I.A. has joined with the spy services of several Arab nations to arm and train the rebels at bases in Jordan and Qatar, with the Saudis bankrolling much of the operation.



    Parent
    Nope (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Yman on Wed Dec 14, 2016 at 10:45:22 AM EST
    It's not.  The war was ongoing long before the US decided to aid the rebels.

    But just out of curiosity,  what would you have the United States do?  Nothing?  Sit by while Assad continued to massacre his own people?  While ISIS did the same?

    BTW - "Pro military" is not a synonym for pro war.

    Parent

    I Would Love to See the Data (none / 0) (#161)
    by RickyJim on Wed Dec 14, 2016 at 12:38:25 PM EST
    that shows how US military interventionism saves more lives than it costs.  Do we have anything like that from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?  For example, how many would Saddam Hussein have killed if we had not removed him from power, versus the number we killed in doing it?  Is life expectancy any greater in Afghanistan and Iraq now than before our interventions?

    Parent
    Data that can't exist (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Yman on Wed Dec 14, 2016 at 01:15:17 PM EST
    By definition,  it would be impossible to know the numbers from an alternate reality.  You can look at the life expectancy numbers from before and after,  although I'm not sure that's a fair comparison.  I just Googled Afghanistan numbers,  and it's higher now than before the war,  for whatever that's worth.

    Parent
    Life expectancy in Iraq (none / 0) (#163)
    by Yman on Wed Dec 14, 2016 at 01:23:16 PM EST
    Slightly up,  FWIW.

    Parent
    What Yman said. (none / 0) (#164)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 14, 2016 at 04:48:51 PM EST
    How would you gather data regarding an alternate scenario which might have happened had we not acted?

    Per the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, I don't think anyone is under any illusions regarding what the Taliban and Saddam Hussein's Baathist regime were capable of doing to their own respective nations and peoples. But how exactly would we calculate what damage and harm they might have caused prospectively in the absence of U.S. intervention?

    With regard to NATO's military intervention in Libya -- which, contrary to some people's thinking, was a French-led initiative and not a U.S. one -- the likelihood that the Khadafy regime would have instigated a widespread slaughter of inhabitants in the rebellious province of Cyrenaica was quite high, given its leader's past behavior when suppressing similar outbreaks.

    In the end, any decision as to whether or not to intervene militarily in a given country region is entirely a judgment call on the part of our nation's leaders, to be made on a case by case basis.

    One can only hope that they don't arrive at such decisions recklessly, as happened in Iraq, but rather with all necessary due deliberation, during which we also keep firmly in mind the astute observation of one of our country's most notable pacifists, the late U.S. Congresswoman Jeannette Rankin (R-MT):

    "There can be no compromise with war; it cannot be reformed or controlled; cannot be disciplined into decency or codified into common sense. You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Wonder Woman out as UN Ambassador (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by McBain on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 04:19:04 PM EST
    People will complain about anything
    "It is alarming that the United Nations would consider using a character with an overtly sexualized image at a time when the headline news in United States and the world is the objectification of women and girls," the petition read.

    I thought Wonder Woman was the only good thing in the terrible Batman vs. Superman movie.

    And speaking of Soviet influence (3.50 / 2) (#117)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 09:26:25 AM EST
    Kennedy's message was simple. He proposed an unabashed quid pro quo. Kennedy would lend Andropov a hand in dealing with President Reagan. In return, the Soviet leader would lend the Democratic Party a hand in challenging Reagan in the 1984 presidential election.....

    First he offered to visit Moscow. "The main purpose of the meeting, according to the senator, would be to arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems.....

    Then he offered to make it possible for Andropov to sit down for a few interviews on American television. ......

    Link

    I suppose (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by FlJoe on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 11:04:36 AM EST
    you spent the entire 80's believing everything the KGB said.
    Face the facts Jim, your boys are in now in bed with Putin(ex-KGB) there's nothing you can do Jim, you might as well close your eyes, lay back and enjoy it.

    A sad end for a brave cold-warrior if you ask me.


    Parent

    The right wingers (5.00 / 3) (#133)
    by KeysDan on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 03:51:40 PM EST
    and white nationalists have placed the old Sovietskys on the shelf, and have taken their shine to Putin's Russia--as they see it, the bulwark for white, Christian civilization.

    Putin will save the world from all that political correctness and multiculturalism, including the Muslim onslaught. They seem to like and want to import Putin's illiberal, authoritarian ways so as to make America Great Again, according to their lights.

    Russia is the model. Putin's dislike of freedom of expression, freedom on the press, women and gay rights, political accountability, and his resuscitation of the Russian Orthodox (Christian) Church, are to be their building blocks for the restoration of the America. America is no longer to be sidelined by modernity. Putin is their man. And, Trump admires his leadership.

    Parent

    Let's do a catch up...been working outside almost (none / 0) (#136)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 05:07:43 PM EST
    all day mulching leaves and fixing the bird feeder...

    GA, I didn't know Forbes was working for the Soviets

    Composed in 1983 by Victor Chebrikov, the top man at the KGB, the memorandum was addressed to Yuri Andropov, the top man in the entire USSR. The subject: Sen. Edward Kennedy.

    Towanda:

    You need to read better sources.

    The USIC and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) assess....

    I guess they are right when you and Donald agree with them and wrong when you don't.

    Yman: He wasn't "helping Hillary".  He was checking

    Sure he was. lol.

    FLJoe:

    I guess you spent the entire 80's believing everything the KGB said

    Didn't have to. Had the Venona Papers.

    And a book Venona
    Decoding Soviet Espionage in America
    By JOHN EARL HAYNES and HARVEY KLEHR
    Yale University Press"

    BTW - The Cold War is over. And watching you folks  try and act hawkish is soooo delicious.

    Parent

    So now your'e (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 06:07:50 PM EST
    taking the word of the KBG. Alrighty then. Yes, we are quite aware of how conservatives now love Russia since they are authoritarian, anti-gay, anti-woman and Putin reconstituted the Russian Orthodox church. And you have to go back almost four decades and use the KBG propaganda. ROTFLMAO. Yes, I'm quite aware that this was the apologia being shopped on talk radio after this story broke. Sorry but none are the same as actually having a Russian stooge as president which is what WE ARE GOING TO HAVE. And he's loading up the government with Putin stooges to boot.

    Parent
    ... the "Vichy mentality," not unlike those right-wing Frenchmen who willingly served Marshal Henri Petain's puppet regime HQ'ed in Vichy, FR in the aftermath of the French surrender to Nazi Germany in June 1940, and then used their positions to persecute their pre-war adversaries.

    Basically, it's reflective of people whose hatred for their perceived domestic opponents is at such a fevered pitch that they'd actively invite and welcome the intervention of a foreign power, in an effort to assume control themselves and purge their rivals.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Congratulations (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by jondee on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 08:51:06 PM EST
    on discovering, sixty years after the fact, that the Russians spied on us back then.

    Though, considering your recent celebrating of Trump's "opposition" to the Iraq invasion, it seems like your speed at grasping the obvious has improved somewhat.

    It's soooo delicious to see.

    Parent

    That IS funny (none / 0) (#143)
    by Yman on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 06:48:37 PM EST
       Yman: He wasn't "helping Hillary".  He was checking

    Sure he was. lol.

    Wow - that's the best you can do in trying to form an argument?

    Heh.  That IS funny.

    Parent

    Say "Goodnight, Dick." (none / 0) (#155)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 10:33:45 PM EST
    GA, read the book. It is completely non political.
    And printed by that Far Right publishing company, Yale Press.

    Yman, I was gonna ask for some proof but that seems to be a no-no on this subject. You know, like an article about Trump that he submitted and what he changed when he was told he was wrong.

    jondee, thank you. I never knew the Soviets were spying on us. Now I know why I had to have all those background checks and was warned about going to prison if I screwed up handling classified material.

    Donald so now it's

    the "Vichy mentality,"

    Nice psychobabble... But I saw the reason Trump won yesterday on TV. It was a shot of the "activists" at Ohio State protesting against the policeman who shot the radical muslim who ran over and stabbed 11 or so people.

    Enough is enough is enough.

    Now, gotta get some sleep. Big Xmas po$er tournament in the AM.

    Parent

    And now the omnibus replies begin (none / 0) (#158)
    by Yman on Wed Dec 14, 2016 at 05:31:35 AM EST
    Spanked for thread clogging,  you resort once again to rolling multiple rookies into one,  long post.

    Oy.

    BTW - The evidence was provided.  But like Trump, if you don't like facts,  you ignore them and pretend they dont exist.  

    Parent

    The federalist (none / 0) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 12:07:45 PM EST
    is Putin propaganda.

    Parent
    And you wonder why media approval is (1.00 / 1) (#116)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 09:11:23 AM EST
    zip????

    Politico's Glenn Thrush, who was exposed in WikiLeaks emails sending stories to Hillary Clinton staffers before publication, will be joining the New York Times to cover the White House, The Huffington Post reported Monday.

    Link

    So we the NYT hiring a man who broke all the rules to help Hillary reporting on the WH?

    The water is poisoned immediately. If he actually found something bad many people will not believe him.

    The same media (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 09:44:13 AM EST
    that went after Hillary 24/7? Don't worry. Trump's approval rating is the lowest ever for an incoming president. Coming in 2nd place with the voters has consequences plus being a Putin stooge doesn't help.

    Parent
    It's called "fact checking" (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Yman on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 10:12:59 AM EST
    He wasn't "helping Hillary".  He was checking to make sure his facts were correct before publishing,  something he and his editor confirmed he did with has all his stories with sources from both sides.

    If the Cheetah learned to do this,  perhaps he wouldn't be setting records for false claims among every fact checker.  Or, he'd ignore the facts and continue to make false claims.

    Parent

    "Broke all the rules" - heh (none / 0) (#145)
    by Yman on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 06:51:50 PM EST
    So we the NYT hiring a man who broke all the rules to help Hillary reporting on the WH?

    You realize that "rules" are things that exist outside your own imagination, right?  He broke absolutely no "rules".  Your claim that he did is a joke.

    Parent

    How is it that a teen magazine ... (none / 0) (#1)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Dec 11, 2016 at 10:48:06 PM EST
    ... has the cojones to print an uncomfortable, inconvenient but nevertheless very real truth, while the New York Times and the overwhelming majority of mainstream media continue to stare back at us like deer frozen in place by the headlights?

    Teen Vogue | December 10, 2016
    Donald Trump is Gaslighting America - "The CIA officially determined that Russia intervened in our election, and President-elect Donald Trump dismissed the story as if it were a piece of fake news. 'These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction,' his transition team wrote in a statement. 'The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It's now time to move on and "Make America Great Again."'

    "It wasn't one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history, so presumably that's another red-herring lie to distract from Trump treating the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States like it is some rogue blogger to be cast to the trolls. A foreign government's interference in our election is a threat to our freedom, and the President-elect's attempt to undermine the American people's access to that information undermines the very foundation upon which this country was built. It's also nothing new.

    "Trump won the Presidency by gas light. His rise to power has awakened a force of bigotry by condoning and encouraging hatred, but also by normalizing deception. Civil rights are now on trial, though before we can fight to reassert the march toward equality, we must regain control of the truth. If that seems melodramatic, I would encourage you to dump a bucket of ice over your head while listening to 'Duel of the Fates.' Donald Trump is our President now; it's time to wake up."

    Definitely worth a read.

    The idea of renegade electors (none / 0) (#8)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 12:25:05 PM EST
    I am getting gung ho on the idea of the electors voting against Trump.  Donald (of Hawaii), I know this is next to impossible, but there is some recent buzz.

    And, theoretically, since we have the GOP constantly telling us that the popular vote does not matter, that we live in a representative republic, not a democracy, and that the Electoral College was put in place to avoid the crazed masses of democracy, I say, okay, I'm all for it.

    So, screw the popular vote in Pa., Mich. and Wisconsin, and let's let the wise men Electors decide--just the way the founders envisioned. It is only the custom that the electors vote the way their state voted.  The Russians and Comey rigged this election.  The GOP lost the popular vote.  I can't think of a more apt reason, or a better situation, for the Electors to exercise their independent judgment.

    Heck, I'd even entertain a deal whereby Dem Electors agree with enough GOP Electors to elect a hybrid ticket of Romney/Kaine.  (Too much of a lift to get GOP Electors to vote for a Dem for POTUS.)    

    Parent

    Well, there certainly are a few rumblings. (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:39:30 PM EST
    As reported by The Hill this morning, 10 electors have penned a letter to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, requesting that they be fully briefed by the Intelligence Commmunity regarding its findings, before they cast their votes next Monday.

    It's still very much a longshot as far as I'm concerned, but if it's to be given a chance at all, Democratic elected officials themselves really need to get off the Schnied and start pursuing this matter with a far greater sense of urgency that has been apparent at present. And yeah, I'm looking at you, Chuck Schumer:

    "That any country could be meddling in our elections should shake both political parties to their core. Senate Democrats will join with our Republican colleagues next year to demand a congressional investigation and hearings to get to the bottom of this." (Emphasis is mine.)

    Next year. Really, dude? Because if these allegations of Russian interference and / or collusion with the Trump campaign are true -- and frankly, none of us have any valid reason to assume that they're not given the source -- this likely represents the most serious compromise to national security to have occurred in our own lifetimes, and the biggest threat since the Cuban missile crisis of 54 years ago.

    The notion that any further discussion of this matter can wait until after the Electoral College's formal ratification of Trump's victory, the Christmas holidays and the convening of a new congressional session on January 3 of next year, sort of boggles the mind.

    The folks in Washington, D.C. have truly lost their moral compass bearings.

    Parent

    Electors (none / 0) (#19)
    by KD on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:24:26 PM EST
    Don't you think any electors who rebel will be risking their lives? I mean these are people who threaten violence against the object of Trvmp's last tweet. I believe it's the patriotic thing to do, but I also believe if it were me, I'd be scared to death.

    Parent
    KD, have you met Ga6th? Ga6th, KD. (none / 0) (#20)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:29:04 PM EST
    So you think they wouldn't be? (none / 0) (#30)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 02:23:41 PM EST
    Because that's funny.

    Parent
    Social Media Bullies... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 02:46:12 PM EST
    like all bullies, are cowards at heart.  Just look at the coward-elect for a prime example!  

    There may well certainly be loons who would try to harm defector-electors...but they won't be the ones making all the noise with their keyboards...that's just the Russians, or maybe the Chinese, or simple Americans laying in bed who weigh 400 lbs.

    Parent

    Yeah, but then you have the odd (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 02:52:28 PM EST
    keyboard warrior who shows up at a pizza place with a loaded gun..

    Parent
    Exceptions to every rule.... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 02:59:04 PM EST
    if every internet knucklehead who threatened the thing did the thing though, we'd have more murders than od's and traffic fatalities put together.

    Parent
    You don't need every one ... (none / 0) (#36)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:06:39 PM EST
    ... of them to act.   It only takes one.   People have received dozens or hundreds of death threats for much less.  To laugh them off and ignore them would be foolish.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:13:32 PM EST
    all things considered, it's nothing short of a small miracle we haven't had more incidents involving lone nuts who've been set off by all the fake news and the Alex Joneses of the world..

    Especially when you consider how easy it is in some places for people to procure guns and ammo.

    Parent

    Don't let all the noise fool ya... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:27:24 PM EST
    half decent yet maybe a little crazy still far outnumber the violently indecent and totally f*cking crazy by a wide margin.

    Sh*t even the irrational hate lane on the disinformation superhighway can be something to live for...and that's all it takes, something to live for.

    Parent

    I called my rep (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:48:40 AM EST
    and both of my senators about Russian hacking and interference in the election. My rep is pro-Putin all the way. Johnny Isakson is taking the news very seriously and David Perdue is ducking saying anything right now.

    Treason charges (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 10:42:25 AM EST
    being filed against Giuliani, Comey, McConnell & Trump so far. We'll see where this goes.

    By who? (none / 0) (#6)
    by BTAL on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 12:22:03 PM EST
    Source of such nonsense?

    Parent
    link (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 12:55:31 PM EST
    here

    The GOP sure is freaking out about Putin interfering these days. Certainly those who were in that meeting are compromised in some way since they knew about the Putin interference from the CIA back in September.

    Parent

    Congrats (1.00 / 1) (#17)
    by BTAL on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:08:15 PM EST
    You've officially become a denizen of Crackpot-ville.  

    Parent
    Seriously (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:53:27 PM EST
    I heard the same thing when I was talking about Putin influencing the election from conservatives. Now the CIA is saying the same thing. I guess conservatives are going to embrace the Putin agenda and not resist it. Whatever. It's your choice. I fill fight foreign agents taking over our government. You are certainly welcome to embrace it.

    Parent
    There are (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:33:48 PM EST
    facts that do show a big problem.

    The CIA has said Russia interfered in our election.  Trump has been very close to Putin; he has surrounded himself with Putin friendly people.

    The facts are on the side of those who are very concerned.  That is not being a crackpot.

    Parent

    But those facts (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:35:15 PM EST
    paint a picture so surreal that many have hard time focusing on how dangerous what just happened is.

    Parent
    Seriously, GA6? You've joined (none / 0) (#7)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 12:24:08 PM EST
    the "lock 'em up" crowd? And have you forgotten the uniquely narrow American constitutional definition of "treason"?

    Parent
    I would not lock them up (none / 0) (#9)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 12:27:10 PM EST
    Just banish them to a golf course of their choosing.

    Parent
    Preferably on the island of St. Helena. (none / 0) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:01:32 PM EST
    ;-D

    Parent
    That is why (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 12:49:38 PM EST
    I said we'll see where this goes. Doesn't mean it will get past a judge.

    Parent
    Cite your source (none / 0) (#12)
    by BTAL on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 12:51:43 PM EST
    You know my heart is with you, GA6, but (none / 0) (#16)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:06:25 PM EST
    seriously, what are you even talking about? "Past a judge"? What is it you are suggesting that might get anywhere near a judge?

    Parent
    It might (none / 0) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:51:23 PM EST
    not but I guess we'll see.

    Parent
    ... calling themselves the Democratic Coalition Against Trump (DCAT). It's been picked up by various blogs and alternative news sites such as the New Century Times but as far as I can tell, not by any mainstream media outlets.

    Parent
    74th Annual Golden Globe Award nominations: (none / 0) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 10:45:13 AM EST
    Best Motion Picture, Drama:
    • "Hacksaw Ridge"
    • "Hell or High Water"
    • "Manchester by the Sea"
    • "Moonlight"
    • "Lion"

    Best Motion Picture, Musical or Comedy:
    • "20th Century Women"
    • "Deadpool"
    • "Florence Foster Jenkins"
    • "La La Land"
    • "Sing Street"

    Best Actor, Drama:
    • Casey Affleck, "Manchester by the Sea"
    • Joel Edgerton, "Loving"
    • Andrew Garfield, "Hacksaw Ridge"
    • Viggo Mortensen, "Captain Fantastic"
    • Denzel Washington, "Fences"

    Best Actress, Drama:
    • Amy Adams, "Arrival"
    • Jessica Chastain, "Miss Sloane"
    • Isabelle Huppert, "Elle"
    • Ruth Negga, "Loving"
    • Natalie Portman, "Jackie"

    Best Actor, Musical or Comedy:
    • Colin Farrell, "The Lobster"
    • Hugh Grant, "Florence Foster Jenkins"
    • Ryan Gosling, "La La Land"
    • Ryan Reynolds, "Deadpool"
    • Jonah Hill, "War Dogs"

    Best Actress, Musical or Comedy:
    • Annette Bening, "20th Century Women"
    • Lily Collins, "Rules Don't Apply"
    • Hailee Steinfeld, "The Edge of Seventeen"
    • Emma Stone, "La La Land"
    • Meryl Streep, "Florence Foster Jenkins"

    Best Supporting Actor, Any Motion Picture:

    • Mahershala Ali, "Moonlight"
    • Jeff Bridges, "Hell or High Water"
    • Simon Helberg, "Florence Foster Jenkins"
    • Dev Patel, "Lion"
    • Aaron Taylor Johnson, "Nocturnal Animals"

    Best Supporting Actress, Any Motion Picture:
    • Viola Davis, "Fences"
    • Naomie Harris, "Moonlight"
    • Nicole Kidman, "Lion"
    • Octavia Spencer, "Hidden Figures"
    • Michelle Williams, "Manchester by the Sea"

    Best Director, Any Motion Picture:
    • Damien Chazelle, "La La Land"
    • Tom Ford, "Nocturnal Animals"
    • Barry Jenkins, "Moonlight"
    • Mel Gibson, "Hacksaw Ridge"
    • Kenneth Lonergan, "Manchester by the Sea"

    The complete list of nominations is HERE.

    donald, please pick the ones (none / 0) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 11:08:04 AM EST
    you want us to know about and include the link to all, this is too long a list for comments. Comments are for your thoughts. Thanks, but no one is going to want to scroll through it to get to the next comment or empty space to post a comment.

    Parent
    Okay, Jeralyn, here's the repost: (none / 0) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 12:58:37 PM EST
    74th Annual Golden Globe Award nominations were announced this morning in Los Angeles:

    Best Motion Picture, Drama:

    • "Hacksaw Ridge"
    • "Hell or High Water"
    • "Manchester by the Sea"
    • "Moonlight"
    • "Lion"

    Best Motion Picture, Musical or Comedy:
    • "20th Century Women"
    • "Deadpool"
    • "Florence Foster Jenkins"
    • "La La Land"
    • "Sing Street"

    The complete list of Golden Globe nominations, which is quite lengthy since it also includes television productions, can be found HERE.  

    Parent
    I've only seen two of those films.... (none / 0) (#26)
    by McBain on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:56:17 PM EST
    Hell or High Water was solid but not spectacular.
    Deadpool was a lot of fun.
    I've heard good things about Manchester
    My favorite film of the year was The Lobster

    Parent
    I agree about "Hell or High Water." (none / 0) (#29)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 02:23:35 PM EST
    It was a very good effort by everyone involved and I enjoyed it, but I don't think it rises to the level of "Best Picture." Been there, seen that with "No Country for Old Men." But that said, I do think Jeff Bridges deserves his Best Supporting Actor nomination.

    We saw "Manchester by the Sea" on Friday night. It's a very good and engrossing story, and both Casey Affleck and Michelle Williams deliver outstanding performances which, if the critics are any guide, likely place them both among Oscar's early frontrunners. Although the film does clock in at 137 minutes, it moves briskly enough that you don't quite notice its length, or at least won't mind it too much. Other than that rather small quibble, I do highly recommend it.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    As a NY Football Giants fan (none / 0) (#10)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 12:29:10 PM EST
    I'd like to point out that "Dallas" is spelled with two "L"s.

    From the 1977 comedy "Semi-Tough": (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 02:03:17 PM EST
    Staring at a large sign in the stands which clearly reads "DALLUS SUCKS!", a pro football team employee admires his handiwork prior to the Super Bowl as the owner Big Ed Bookman (Robert Preston) and his daughter (Jill Clayburgh) approach.

    "Excuse me, but isn't that sign misspelled?" asks Big Ed.

    The employee stares back at the sign again for a second, and then responds, "S-U-C-K-S. Sucks. No, sir, that's right."

    ;-D

    Parent

    Great movie! (none / 0) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:43:35 PM EST
    And a great book (none / 0) (#114)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 08:52:34 AM EST
    Great defensive effort (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 02:30:31 PM EST
    on the part of the Giants last night, though they were lucky to get a win with that ultra-conservative play calling..

    They weren't acting like they had a lot of confidence in Eli. What was with all those running plays they kept calling on third and long?

    Parent

    Jet fans... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:09:25 PM EST
    have a name for the draw on third and long...we call it The Joe Walton Special.

    Good day for NY football all around...the graybeard rec league team added another fall league 'ship to out belt and left a squad of younger men shaking their heads thinking "how'd those old f*cks beat us?"

    Old Guys 27, Young Guys 13...our defense shut them sob's out in the second half forcing two turnovers.  Yip yeah!

    Onto the Winter League...pray for my knees and ankles;)

    Parent

    Awesome. (none / 0) (#44)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:45:02 PM EST
    No one has a lot of confidence in Eli. (none / 0) (#42)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:44:12 PM EST
    Except for Patriots fans (none / 0) (#45)
    by CST on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:45:44 PM EST
    The little $hit.

    Parent
    That's why he will always be the... (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:52:01 PM EST
    the # 1 Manning in our hearts, if not the record books;)

    Parent
    Ha! He does have a way of figuring out how (none / 0) (#47)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:49:04 PM EST
    to win big games, that is for sure.

    Parent
    Try a few years of (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 04:15:53 PM EST
    of JP Losman, Trenton Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, EJ Manuel, and Tyrod Taylor and head coach who drains the talent out of quarterbacks the way Dracula drained his victims, then come back and talk to me.

    Parent
    but it can't be easy being a Bills fan.

    Parent
    You know there's something awry (none / 0) (#57)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 04:43:39 PM EST
    with the culture when Doug Marrone leads them to a winning season and then leaves after one year to become Jacksonville's offensive line coach.

    That just would never happen with an organization like the Giants or Dallas.

    Parent

    Lived through (none / 0) (#109)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 05:50:54 AM EST
    the Tarkenton trade (at least they were fun to watch), to the Pisarcik fumble. Too many sorry excuses.

    Since the Parcells era, they occasionally flash across like a meteor and grab greatness, but have had a problem putting a sustained winning team on the field.

    Am so in awe of the Master. Belichek , (should have been the Giants head coach over the card counter) , they consistently put a winning product on the field

    Parent

    Still (none / 0) (#54)
    by FlJoe on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 04:37:07 PM EST
    waiting for the next  Dan Marino here.

    Parent
    Sh:t... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 04:39:34 PM EST
    I'd settle for the next Ken O'Brien.

    Parent
    But dammit all if he didn't coach the Giants to not just one, but TWO rather improbable late-season Super Bowl runs and victories. Still don't know how he did it, but I can't argue against success.

    Parent
    Thats called (none / 0) (#108)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 05:41:37 AM EST
    Trusting your Defense

    The Offensive line almost got Eli killed.

    Parent

    A tainted election, (none / 0) (#23)
    by KeysDan on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:51:31 PM EST
    Dr. Paul Krugman, NYTimes, December 12,2016. "Did the combination of Russian and FBI intervention swing the election?  ....This election was an outrage and we should never forget it."

    One former (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 01:55:49 PM EST
    CIA agent said on CNN that we might need to revote. I don't know what's going to happen but the one thing I do know is that the GOP will not defend the country against Putin's interference.

    Parent
    And if anybody knows about coups, (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 02:56:42 PM EST
    black ops, and false flag ops...it our C.I. Motherf*ckin' A.

    Masters of the dirty art them Langley boys.


    Parent

    They used to call a gun (none / 0) (#40)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:40:09 PM EST
    the great equalizer between combatants, and now cyber aptitude and warfare has become the great equalizer between nations..

    Talk about the chickens coming home to roost.

    Parent

    If there is hope... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:46:00 PM EST
    it lies with the proles without access to wifi.

    Parent
    without access to wifi (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 04:07:49 PM EST
    and with access to their own minds, books, and maybe a little Ayahausca.

    Parent
    Fiorina as Director of National Intelligence. (none / 0) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 02:14:58 PM EST
    Fiorina visited with Trump today and is reported as being considered for Director of National Intelligence.

      Either a Romney-esque groveling and humiliation or an actual interview. While too ugly to be president, she, apparently, is OK enough in the looks department to be chief spy.  In fact, any other qualification for the job is elusive, save for being a loser.

     And, Fiorina, who would have to resign as vice president from the Cruz Administration, no doubt looks forward to serving as Director of National Intelligence so as to gain more intelligence on Planned Parenthood and track down that live fetus on the table, heart beating and legs kicking.

    Steelers caught with deflated balls (none / 0) (#43)
    by CST on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 03:44:59 PM EST
    No investigation forthcoming.

    The Bill's d-line played (none / 0) (#51)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 04:23:31 PM EST
    like they had deflated balls - in the parlance of our times - yesterday.

    Parent
    You mean coitus? (none / 0) (#55)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 04:38:15 PM EST
    You remember Alex Van Pelt.

    62 Days...Pitchers and Catchers.

    Parent

    It can be a natural, zesty enterprise (none / 0) (#76)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:53:27 PM EST
    NFL: "All footballs were in compliance (none / 0) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 04:34:27 PM EST
    and no formal complaint was filed by the Giants with our office."

    Parent
    Rigged (none / 0) (#58)
    by CST on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 04:51:45 PM EST
    Obviously.

    Parent
    proof (none / 0) (#78)
    by linea on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:55:30 PM EST
    that football (?) is a rigged game likely contolled by mafia bosses. i see no alternative other that a nation-wide ban and the removal of all televisions from every club and pub and bar in america.

    Parent
    WI Recount (none / 0) (#59)
    by BTAL on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 05:05:21 PM EST
    Wisconsin recount completed.  

    Net result:

    1,557 votes added (net increase 837 ballots)
    Clinton gained 713 votes
    Trump gained 844 votes

    For those that may have donated to Jill Stein's foolhardy gambit - you just collectively paid approximately $26,300 for each additional Trump vote.

    Forgot to add link (none / 0) (#60)
    by BTAL on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 05:06:04 PM EST
    More than 5,000 Trump votes disappeared (none / 0) (#61)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 05:17:51 PM EST
    before the recount, due to diligence by (non-Wisconsin) eagle-eyed citizen journalists.  The major media in Wisconsin have yet to report that, as they have been snarking about the silly recount. . . .

    But that "computation error" (yeh, d'ya think? that doesn't explain it) was a reason for support for the request for a recount, in addition to the serious concerns raised by a cybersecurity expert.

    Not that those concerns were sufficiently addressed, with denial of a hand recount.  Some hand recounting occurred, but not where most votes were cast.

    And the state elections commission's daily report on errors discovered is astonishing in amount and array.  A lot of election officials don't know what the heck they are doing.  This Wisconsin voter is not reassured that my vote counts, not at all.

    Parent

    Your state (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 05:55:29 PM EST
    has been shown to be a complete mess when it comes to voting along with Michigan. These should be issues for the next candidate for governor. Of course, in Michigan the policies that led to citizens being poisoned by lead are absolutely shameful.

    Parent
    The problem is not our governor (none / 0) (#71)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:29:05 PM EST
    who is a progressive (if less-than-firebrand) Democrat. Because statewide, we have a substantial liberal-Democratic majority. (Hence, because they are also elected statewide, we also have a solid Dem-liberal majority on the state Supreme Court, most of whom are also well-qualified judges ... which is kind of amazing considering the political nature of judicial-selection process.) The problem is the Legislature, which thanks to extreme partisan gerrymandering, commands a veto-proof conservative Republican majority in both houses. They have no interest in laws that would promote or ensure fair elections. In fact, they are actively opposed.

    Parent
    Peter (none / 0) (#81)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:59:01 PM EST
    thanks for the reply but I was not talking about PA. I was talking about WI and MI in replying to Towanda. I know PA has some archaic laws that would have stopped a recount regardless of who the governor was or is.

    Parent
    Because your question appeared after (none / 0) (#89)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:28:44 PM EST
    and just under mine, I misread it (#81) as a response and question to me. I wish it were the practice here to identify specifically what comment (perhaps by #) someone is responding to, as it is on some other sites. Water under the bridge, I fear, however.

    Parent
    click Parent? (none / 0) (#91)
    by linea on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:31:21 PM EST
    The Stein legal team cannot beat (none / 0) (#62)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 05:40:47 PM EST
    Pennsylvania's byzantine anti-recount law. Case dismissed today by the federal judge for six separate reasons. IMHO, the cases in PA state court will surely be dismissed as well.

    Parent
    Maybe Detroit made up for (none / 0) (#135)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 04:37:45 PM EST
    those that "disappeared."

    Voting machines in more than one-third of all Detroit precincts registered more votes than they should have during last month's presidential election, according to Wayne County records prepared at the request of The Detroit News.

    Detailed reports from the office of Wayne County Clerk Cathy Garrett show optical scanners at 248 of the city's 662 precincts, or 37 percent, tabulated more ballots than the number of voters tallied by workers in the poll books. Voting irregularities in Detroit have spurred plans for an audit by Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnson's office, Elections Director Chris Thomas said Monday.

    Detroit News

    Parent

    Your concern for the cost ... (none / 0) (#65)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 06:32:37 PM EST
    ... to the Stein supporters is duly noted and given all the weight it deserves.

    Parent
    Guess (none / 0) (#67)
    by BTAL on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:00:27 PM EST
    you was one of the those that donated to Stein's $7M recount war chest.  Yet, she could only raise/spend $2.5M on her election.  Just out of curiosity aren't the Dems the biggest advocates against big $s in politics?  

    AKA:  Citizens United (which also empowers Big Unions), PACs (to include those on the left), HRC spending approx. $1.6B (where as Trump spent approx. half that) and finally the Jill Stein scam.

    Parent

    The your "guess" ... (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:22:48 PM EST
    ... would be as false as most of your claims.

    Just out of curiosity, aren't you Repubs the ones that gave us Citizens United?  You should be more careful about what you wish for.

    Parent

    Would someone here please (none / 0) (#68)
    by BTAL on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:08:10 PM EST
    Provide specific and verified evidence that the election was changed by the much reported Russian hack.

    Seriously, only facts, not news reports which include "unnamed sources".  Actual factual data.

    Along that line, a question.  If this administration and its tentacles of power (many times much maligned here) of the CIA, NSA, DIA, etc. are so damn smart - why have they not come out with evidence, actions, charges, sanctions (the list goes on) against either the Russians, Trump, the Trump campaign, etc. etc. etc.

    If (and here's the $64K question) - since Obama is in still in charge why did he state there was not influence or effects of Russian foul play.

    Trump is not yet POTUS, Obama is.  If there is a serious threat to our country then why is there not official actions.

     

    Oh, for cripes' sake (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:17:20 PM EST
    you want your answers with a bow on top?  

    Why do you know more than a dozen intelligence agencies (only in this country; more overseas)?

    Why do you think even GOP congressmen now are calling for release of the findings from the investigations?

    But I will give you this, re your last sentence:  Yes, it may be that Obama's concern for his legacy, for a peaceful transition of power, will turn out to be remembered in the history books as weakness . . . and a peaceful transition of power to Putin's puppet.

    Parent

    Yes, for cripe's sake (none / 0) (#74)
    by BTAL on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:36:22 PM EST
    (as a mid-west boy I know that expression)

    So do you know more than a dozen intelligence agencies?

    So do you agree with Obama that a peaceful transition of power is more important than national security?  That is frightening - in fact you should then be tossing unsubstantiated accusations at Obama.

    Will again state my earlier question.  Please provide factual proof of Russian actions that changed the course of this election.  

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:57:18 PM EST
    there are plenty that have been tossed at Obama and a lot from Clinton. She tried and tried to get him to release the information before the election. The senate intelligence committee has asked him to release the information about the election. Finally the CIA just flat out leaked the information to the Washington Post.

    One of the goals of the Putin propaganda was to play the Bernie supporters as victims of an evil DNC conspiracy to deny Bernie the nomination. That one seems to have worked judging by how many people around here fell for it. Putin's goal was to split off enough votes into 3rd parties to get Trump a win.

    Parent

    Ah,, yes, moving the goal posts (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:16:26 PM EST
    out of the stadium, past the parking lot and into the next county.

    Demand a burden of proof so high, you can tell yourself nothing amiss happened.

    We have the CIA reports.  That is good evidence.

    Parent

    Using your standard of proof (none / 0) (#87)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:21:16 PM EST
    is, I suppose, how one can say that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese; or it has never been scientifically proven that cigarette smoking causes cancer.

    Wonderful sleight of had to deny reality, and to argue that black is white.....

    Parent

    We have CIA reports (none / 0) (#88)
    by BTAL on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:22:08 PM EST
    Then, post the facts and evidence.  Not much to ask actually.

    Parent
    C'mon (none / 0) (#94)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:04:19 PM EST
    You're asking for the results of the work of more than a dozen agencies, from hundreds of news stories.  Stop the foolishness.

    Parent
    and blog-clogging (endless repetition) ... (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:23:02 PM EST
    and the "just asking questions" gambit ... Enough is enough. Or, as they say in Italian, "Basta!"

    Parent
    WTF (4.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:55:10 PM EST
    does your first sentence even mean?

    Forget it, not worth my time; you are a fool.

    Parent

    refers to (none / 0) (#82)
    by linea on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:06:54 PM EST
    the usage of "cripes sakes" as a common midwestern argot.

    where "cripes" is a polite word replacement for christ, like "jeebus" is a polite word replacement for jesus. there is an english term for this sort of polite word substitution but I can't recall it at this time.

    you're welcome.


    Parent

    No (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:02:23 PM EST
    No, that line was a phrase.  It was followed by a sentence -- thus the first sentence.

    By the way, sentences start with capital letters.  Try it.

    Parent

    Please look at linea's reply (none / 0) (#86)
    by BTAL on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:20:18 PM EST
    While we are on opposite sides of the aisle.  I do read and respect your comments here.  However, you're "you are a fool" comment is out of bounds.

    Care to discuss the topic as the person I try to respect or do you want to take the low road.

    Seriously, my opinion is that you are better than that.

    Parent

    Seriously funny (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:25:04 PM EST
    You think the intelligence agencies should reveal their sources and methods to satisfy you, because you won't believe it unless you see the raw intelligence.

    Heh, heh, heh ...

    Parent

    best as i can figure (none / 0) (#75)
    by linea on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:46:39 PM EST
    the allegation is that the russian government hacked the DNC server and handed those emails over to wikileaks.

    i believe they are refering to those embarrassing emails that (many people feel) show that the DNC was not acting in good faith with bernie sanders.

    please correct me if i'm wrong.


    Parent

    "Many people feel" (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:34:02 PM EST
    i believe they are refering to those embarrassing emails that (many people feel) show that the DNC was not acting in good faith with bernie sanders.

    "Many people feel" that global warming and evolution are hoaxes.  They would also be wrong.

    Parent

    Please go read, for yourself (none / 0) (#79)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 07:55:49 PM EST
    reporting on this in all major media now.

    Parent
    i listen (none / 0) (#84)
    by linea on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:13:20 PM EST
    to NPR daily which also features CBC and BBC news. i also read a european news and opinion site and do extensive reseach on the english-language wiki.

    Parent
    Here you go. (none / 0) (#90)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:29:34 PM EST
    For starters, here's the Joint statement from the Dept. of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence (October 7, 2016):

    "The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow -- the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.

    "Some states have also recently seen scanning and probing of their election-related systems, which in most cases originated from servers operated by a Russian company. However, we are not now in a position to attribute this activity to the Russian Government. The USIC and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) assess that it would be extremely difficult for someone, including a nation-state actor, to alter actual ballot counts or election results by cyber attack or intrusion. This assessment is based on the decentralized nature of our election system in this country and the number of protections state and local election officials have in place. States ensure that voting machines are not connected to the Internet, and there are numerous checks and balances as well as extensive oversight at multiple levels built into our election process." (Emphasis is mine.)

    The fact that both the DHS and USIC continue to stand by this contention will have to suffice for now. The information you seek, if it exists, remains classified because its likely an ongoing investigation.

    If that's not good enough for you, well, too bad. You can fuss and fume all you want. The world isn't going to stop and turn on your individual opinions, any more than it will on mine. And you don't get to set and define the parameters by which everyone else must determine what's acceptable evidence and what is not.

    Save perhaps for admittedly partisan motivations, I've no rationale for not taking the USIC at its word at this juncture, and neither do you. I know it's currently fashionable in some circles to say why should we trust the IC now when it was wrong about Iraq and WMD, but that's just the result of the GOP rewriting its own sorry chapter of history and then believing its own bullschitt.

    The fact of the matter is that the IC wasn't wrong about Iraq; George Tenet and Colin Powell were, because the Bush administration chose to cherry-pick select data from what information there was in order to spin a case for war. And then when their premise was exposed as false, they hastened to blame and scapegoat the IC analysts.

    If the IC says that the Russian government was behind an effort to tip the election, we ought to take that very seriously, regardless of whoever's in charge of the White House. Who's to say that the Kremlin won't attempt to do the same thing to the GOP next time around, if Putin find it in his regime's best interest to screw the Republicans' pooch?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    blah blah - too lomg (2.25 / 4) (#92)
    by linea on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:40:15 PM EST
    The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts.

    like i previously wrote, russia is being accused of hacking the DNC servers and then handing wikileaks those embarrassing emails showing how badly the DNC was treating bernie sanders.

    are there other embarrassing hacked clinton emails i'm not remembering? feel free to list them here.

    Parent

    First of (5.00 / 3) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:24:16 PM EST
    all you don't even know if the Russians altered the emails. Secondly you are actually proving with your statement that Russian propaganda worked on you because it's intent was to drive a wedge in the party and since Putin knew that a lot of left wingers put their faith in Wikileaks he knew to shove out propaganda through them.

    Parent
    5 paragraphs is "too long"? (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:27:04 PM EST
    Geez, does everything have to be dumbed down for you? The pseudo-salacious contents of those DNC emails -- NOT "Clinton emails," since her foundation's server was never hacked -- are completely beside the point here.

    (And as far as the DNC's purported treatment of Bernie Sanders is concerned, that was only one short email thread between two staffers. So what! You're offering a distorted observation about something you haven't even bothered to read.)

    What's far more important, from the standpoint of national security, is that the DNC servers were even hacked in the first place, and who was behind it.

    Stop looking to be entertained and start taking these matters more seriously, if you wish to be taken at all seriously in such discussions.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    i don't understand (2.33 / 3) (#104)
    by linea on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:45:58 PM EST
    what your disagreement is.

    i'm not revisiting the clinton vs. bernie issue. i'm trying to express the essential features of the allegations against russia succinctly.

    Parent

    The challenge to our national security is who hacked the emails in the first place. Focus on that.

    Parent
    If it's "too long" ... (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 09:28:03 PM EST
    ... for you, stop reading it.  No one is forcing you to.

    BTW - Speaking of "too long", the whining over the DNC is getting old.  It wasn't true then and it's not true now.

    Parent

    The facts be... (none / 0) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 09:04:11 AM EST
    The USIC and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) assess that it would be extremely difficult for someone, including a nation-state actor, to alter actual ballot counts or election results by cyber attack or intrusion. This assessment is based on the decentralized nature of our election system in this country and the number of protections state and local election officials have in place. States ensure that voting machines are not connected to the Internet, and there are numerous checks and balances as well as extensive oversight at multiple levels built into our election process."

    Thanks. I feel better now.

    Parent

    Nope. Machines connect to the Internet (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Towanda on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 12:59:04 PM EST
    even if not all the time; they connect to download sample ballots before elections, and often reconnect afterward to report results.  Especially at the first connection, malware can be installed on the machines.

    You need to read better sources.

    And for numerous checks and balances, also read the daily reports from the state elections commission throughout the Wisconsin recount.  Even if not affecting the final result at the presidential level -- although we don't really know, with denial of a hand recount -- there were hundreds of errors in ward and precincts, the most basic errors from officials providing "nonstandard pens" to tampering with ballot bags and boxes to not being able to do arithmetic and more, all affecting thousands of votes that could have impact in Congressional and local races.  

    I cannot ever count on my vote being counted.

    Parent

    And once again, you take one paragraph ... (none / 0) (#123)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 12:46:09 PM EST
    ... completely out of context and misrepresent it as somehow reflective of the whole, or even remotely reflective of what the core issue here really is, which is Russian interference in our election. And again, what you're doing here is an intellectually dishonest hallmark of a troll.

    I'm not going to discuss this any further with you because of that, so you can take your Russian apology tour someplace else. If you actually believe the crap you bring here then I feel very sorry for you, because you have a demonstrably innate and infinite capacity for sincere and conscientious self-delusion.

    Adios.

    Parent

    UPDATE: The New York Times has just ... (none / 0) (#138)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 05:44:44 PM EST
    ... published a rather lengthy summary of what happened at the DNC, and why this should concern all Americans across party lines and orientations. The hyperlink provided below is through the MSN newsfeed, to avoid any problems people here night have with the NYT paywall:

    New York Times | December 13, 2016
    How Moscow Aimed a Perfect Weapon at the U.S. Election - "When Special Agent Adrian Hawkins of the Federal Bureau of Investigation called the Democratic National Committee in September 2015 to pass along some troubling news about its computer network, he was transferred, naturally, to the help desk.

    "His message was brief, if alarming. At least one computer system belonging to the D.N.C. had been compromised by hackers federal investigators had named 'the Dukes,' a cyberespionage team linked to the Russian government.

    [...]

    "It was the cryptic first sign of a cyberespionage and information-warfare campaign devised to disrupt the 2016 presidential election, the first such attempt by a foreign power in American history. What started as an information-gathering operation, intelligence officials believe, ultimately morphed into an effort to harm one candidate, Hillary Clinton, and tip the election to her opponent, Donald J. Trump.

    "Like another famous American election scandal, it started with a break-in at the D.N.C. The first time, 44 years ago at the committee's old offices in the Watergate complex, the burglars planted listening devices and jimmied a filing cabinet. This time, the burglary was conducted from afar, directed by the Kremlin, with spear-phishing emails and zeros and ones.

    "An examination by The Times of the Russian operation -- based on interviews with dozens of players targeted in the attack, intelligence officials who investigated it and Obama administration officials who deliberated over the best response -- reveals a series of missed signals, slow responses and a continuing underestimation of the seriousness of the cyberattack."

    Definitely worth a read.

    Parent

    Yes. And sadly (none / 0) (#151)
    by Towanda on Tue Dec 13, 2016 at 09:08:46 PM EST
    . . . owing to his overriding concern for his legacy, that may be the ruin of it for Obama.  

    The history books may record that "the White House's reluctance to respond forcefully meant the Russians have not paid a heavy price for their actions, a decision that could prove critical" for the President who knew about this, who caved to McConnell . . . and even ordered the Democratic candidate to concede for the sake of his "peaceful transition of power" -- to a Putin puppet.  

    Parent

    Wronfully convicted man struggling to (none / 0) (#83)
    by McBain on Mon Dec 12, 2016 at 08:12:00 PM EST
    receive monetary compensation from state of Tennessee.
    A Memphis, Tennessee, jury convicted McKinney of rape and burglary in 1978....
    In 2008, DNA testing of evidence scientifically excluded McKinney as a suspect.

    Despite this, McKinney  has been denied an exoneration  hearing which could help him receive up to 1 million dollars.  
    "In an exoneration hearing we have to have a lot of evidence, clear and convincing," said Patsy Bruce, who served on Tennessee's parole board for 12 years and heard McKinney's first exoneration case....
    "I have not been convinced he is innocent"

    Wouldn't being excluded as a suspect be good enough?