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Bernie Changes SuperDelegate Stance

Bernie Sanders has moved from trying to convince superdelegates to vote for the "will of the people" to asking superdelegates in states he lost to vote for him anyway. The AP asks if he's trying to have his cake and eat it too.

What’s behind this tactical shift? One possibility is that the Sanders camp realized they would need the votes of at least some superdelegates even in the states he didn’t carry. As the Washington Post points out, caucus states, where Sanders has done the best, tend to have fewer superdelegates to award, so Clinton would still lead Sanders by several hundred superdelegates, even if you gave Sanders all of them in the states he won.

538 says Hillary has a 99% chance of winning the New York primary. Nationally, the AP says, despite his last 7 wins, Hillary still leads both in pledged delegates and popular vote totals.

The Washington Post reports Bernie's latest cake-fest is a long-shot. [More...]

I have always thought Bernie and his supporters' "will of the people" argument is lame. They seem to conflate "will of the people" with "will of the Democrats." Bernie's never run as a Democrat before, and I wonder how many of his supporters are Democrats, as opposed to having registered as one this year solely to vote for Bernie. The Dems aren't obligated to nominate a party hijacker, which his how I view Bernie.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Not even will of the Democrats (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 07:31:18 PM EST
    Hillary has something like 2 million more votes than he does. Just because some of her states happened to come earlier in the cycle does not mean they count less. He wants to judge 'the will of the people' as the 'will of the people in the states I won'.  He seems to think people did not have time to get to know him. Or something.

    But fine, let him talk. He's not doing himself any favors.

    2.4 million (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by CoralGables on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 07:33:54 PM EST
    so far, it would appear that the (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by cpinva on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 07:39:48 PM EST
    "will of the people"/"will of the democrats"/will of those who voted-caucused has demonstrably been in favor of Ms. Clinton. were it not, she presumably wouldn't be leading in the delegate/vote count. the supporters you describe (newly registered as D's), are the same crowd vowing to not vote for Ms. Clinton, should she be the D nominee.

    Ms. Clinton, whatever you may or may not think of her, has played by the party rules this primary/caucus season, as has Sen. Sanders to this point. now, not only does Sen. Sanders ask us rank & file D's to accept him as one, he also wants to change the rules of the game, because he's clearly losing. no dice.

    Bernie will need to (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 11:29:08 PM EST
    fully endorse Hillary and work to get her elected.

    Hillary set the bar very high in 2008 when she nominated Obama from the convention floor with a smile on her face.  I was very impressed as an Obama partisan.

    Bernie needs to kiss the ring by convention time.

    Parent

    I don't know that he wants to do (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by sallywally on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 12:36:44 AM EST
    that. I'm afraid he has drunk his Kool-aid about himself, and that of the Right Wing regarding Clinton, and he is not going to come out of that Kool-Aid state of mind. Until she beats him, hopefully very soundly, I don't see this changing. He may actually have the soul of a revolutionary and not really care what gets damaged in his crusade.

    Parent
    see (none / 0) (#15)
    by linea on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 12:49:27 AM EST
    everybody makes nice.

    and this was after she said:

    "I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House," she declared on March 3, 2008. "Sen. John McCain has a lifetime of experience that he'd bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."

    same will happen this year with bernie and hillary.

    Parent

    Except this year (none / 0) (#35)
    by sallywally on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 01:36:32 PM EST
    Hillary is Obama; last time she was more progressive than Obama. The vote went to the less progressive candidate, Obama, in 2008. Since Hillary is not a socialist, she is less "progressive" than Sanders, even though their voting records are almost completely the same. If people vote for the less liberal candidate, as they did in 2008, they will vote for Hillary.

    Parent
    Maybe the Sanders people need (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 07:55:00 PM EST
    Hillary supporters also (none / 0) (#26)
    by Steve13209 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 12:39:02 PM EST
    If Sanders becomes more electable than Clinton any time between now and the nomination, the SD will switch over to him. Why not keep running? Sanders has no reason to bow out now when Hillary has not won enough delegates to take the nomination. It would be a disservice to his supporters to stop voicing his (and their) policy positions until then. As someone said above, Sanders has kid gloves on compared to the GOP and can only help pull Clinton a little more left to positions that more Democrats will embrace.

    There are no Reagan Democrats, or moderate Republicans. Triangulation will no longer work, so the Democratic nominee needs to get the most votes from Democrats and those left of center.

    Parent

    What is going to (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    make Sanders suspend is money. He's blowing through it like crazy and he's in very expensive media markets now.

    Parent
    You sure do know a lot about Sanders, (none / 0) (#32)
    by Steve13209 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 01:21:36 PM EST
    his campaign and his supporters. If he starts to run out of cash, his millions of supporters will chip in another $5 each and fill his chest again.

    Sanders will not have to suspend his campaign due to lack of financial support. I would guess he will suspend it if/when HRC gets 1/2 + 1 of all the pledged delegates.

    I was at the Sanders rally in Syracuse yesterday, and while he spent a bit of time differentiating his positions with Clinton's, about half the speech was aimed at the GOP. That seems to be a bit of a change.

    Parent

    It's public (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 01:34:38 PM EST
    record. I'm not saying anything that isn't already known. And yes, Republicans will continue to come up with money to support him maybe but he's going to probably have to return a lot of money too. So we'll just have to watch and see what happens.

    Well, I'm glad to hear he's finally going after the GOP instead of constantly whining about Hillary.

    Parent

    Whining? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Steve13209 on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 12:29:36 PM EST
    It isn't whining, if you are not a Hillary supporter.

    Parent
    I guess (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 01:03:34 PM EST
    you didn't listen to all the whining about the NYDN "interrogation" then.

    Parent
    Differentiating their positions (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by sallywally on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 01:46:10 PM EST
    i.e., spouting Republican lies and his own innuendos about her that make her out to be "trashy" and corrupt. He knows better but he continues his passive-aggressive attacks on her.

    Parent
    Bernie has his own subjects (none / 0) (#48)
    by Steve13209 on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 12:32:11 PM EST
    Which GOP lies are you talking about? I was at his rally and he went after her policy positions on trade, Wall St, and military interventionism. I doubt there is much in those subjects that the GOP object to.

    Parent
    His (none / 0) (#51)
    by FlJoe on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 01:14:50 PM EST
    attacks on her speeches is straight out of "Clinton Cash".

    Parent
    in that case, ANY attack would be inappropriate (none / 0) (#55)
    by Steve13209 on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 01:36:35 PM EST
    amirite? The speaking fees in regard to actual, recent, documented actions HRC has done (not GOP made up sh!t). He says she's wrong for lining her pockets with Wall St (and Verizon) cash, but not letting the public know what she said for all that $$.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 02:00:49 PM EST
    first of all she earned by money when she was a private citizen but get back to us about it when Sanders releases his tax returns.

    Parent
    To be fair... (none / 0) (#54)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 01:25:22 PM EST
    GOP objects to anything that comes out of anyone with a D after their name's mouth Steve...but those are policies they support, to be sure...they just aren't comfortable ever agreeing with Democrats openly, that's strictly for behind closed doors while making the sausage their paymasters paid for.

    Parent
    We are well aware of that (none / 0) (#39)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 02:07:43 PM EST
    Having lived through 2008 when it was exhaustively discussed.


    Parent
    At this point (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 08:18:11 PM EST
    I think a lot of what Sanders and/or his campaign is saying is to keep the money flowing in. Some of what he's saying to keep the money flowing in like he wants a contested convention is definitely not good.

    BTD has the apropos tweet (5.00 / 5) (#22)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 09:43:48 AM EST
    "When Ben Carson did it, we called it grifting".

    Parent
    Not fair at all (none / 0) (#24)
    by Steve13209 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 12:32:42 PM EST
    Bernie Sanders is taking in money and spending it to get his message out at rallies, TV commercials etc. I don't see all the donated money going to consultants with big expense accounts, like with Carson.

    Parent
    You haven't (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 12:36:52 PM EST
    looked close then. Tad Devine took in around a million in March alone. There's big money in placing those ads called commissions and right now Bernie is basically making the his consultants and family members rich off his campaign if he's paying family members like he did when he ran in Vermont. The irony is he has spent a ton of money and he's still losing.

    Parent
    People are donating to a presidential (none / 0) (#28)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 12:59:45 PM EST
    election campaign, not a foundation.

    Parent
    Ooops, hit enter too soon (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 01:01:18 PM EST
    I understand he has the stance that he can still win, somehow, so technically it is still a campaign. But if all he is really wants to do is get a message out, he should have crowdfunded a lecture circuit or something.

    Parent
    Technically? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Steve13209 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 01:12:30 PM EST
    Nobody has secured the nomination. I understand that you all might be afraid of another 2008 collapse and want this to just be over, but how about we let the rest of the states vote. At least until HRC gets 1/2 + 1 pledged delegates. Until then, there are two candidates running for the Democratic nomination.

    It ain't over til it's over.

    Parent

    Fair enough (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 02:00:38 PM EST
    then Bernie supporters need to stop saying he just wants to get a message out, or drive the party to the left. Either he wants to be president or not.

    Parent
    Oh, we wants to be President. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Steve13209 on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 12:34:14 PM EST
    and you want Hillary to be President. And this relatively genteel primary is a little of an annoyance to you, right?

    Parent
    No one is telling him to get out of the race (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Valhalla on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 02:10:48 PM EST
    But his campaign has gotten off course if he's supposed to be using all that money to get his message out.  He and his key campaign staff, plus surrogates have stopped talking message and now focus on criticizing and attacking Clinton.  He left the high road a wways back.

    And whle it's not mathematically impossible for him to win the nominiation (yet), it is practically out of the question.

    Parent

    Is criticizing Clinton... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 02:36:04 PM EST
    in relation to his message, not also getting the message out?

    It is fair to say Bernie has gotten sucked into the sport of this elections thing more than I thought he would, and I don't particularly care for it (or that Tad character, I think he's a political hustler), but is it not the nature of the beast?  Nobody expected this kind of success and resonation from the Sanders campaign, least of all Bernie. Brave new world for those of us who used to be called the fringe...fringe gone mainstream and it's a difficult adjustment when you actually have a chance.  Personally, I'm used to supporting candidates who poll at 5% nationally.  This sh*t is surreal.

    And as far as tightly contested primary seasons go, to both candidates credit it's been far more civilized and issue-based than most...definitely better than '08, or those Republicans who like mud more than pigs.

    Parent

    NY Daiy News Interviews of Bernie/Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Coral on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 08:29:39 AM EST
    If you read or listen to both--available at NY Daily News web site--it becomes clear that Hillary is far more knowledgeable.


    Daily News editorial
    endorsing her yesterday is well worth the read.

    There is a coordinated effort to (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by ExPatObserver on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 08:29:14 AM EST
    obscure this point in the comments sections of new articles. The Sanders supporters all strongly aver that Bernie only wants the delegates from states where he won.

    He's just trying to win (2.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Realleft on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 08:50:41 PM EST
    I wouldn't make too much of the rest of it.  

    I'd like to see him win. Hillary lost me a while back due to the usual things, superpac, wall street speeches at 35K a minute, being a hawk, not caring about surveillance, etc.  And I think Sanders has been an unbelievable bit of fresh air, and is saying things that are very important, so I like the dream.  But in the end, for Sanders or Clinton, I'll surely vote for the Democratic nominee as I have in every other election of my life.  I just don't like people acting like he shouldn't seek the nomination with full gusto.  Both candidates are breathing some fire each other's way, and that's fine with me.  Nothing he is saying is shocking enough to hurt Hillary in the election.  The R's have their whole bank of ways of painting her as far worse than anything he's said.  And I don't really mind her challenging him, either.  If he were to win, nothing she is saying about him will come close to what the Republicans will say. So let them duke it out a bit, and let the winner take the support of most of the voters behind the other one.  Some won't cross to Clinton, and if the winds should turn, some won't cross to Sanders.  Overall, though, I think the Democratic nominee will be in a good position come the fall.

    Full gusto (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by sallywally on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 09:20:20 PM EST
    is not what's going on in the Sanders campaign. A 6-year-old's logic is. Reminds me of my friend's little girl, who liked to play "Mickey Mouse Packy." The rules? We each turn over a card from the top of the deck and mine wins. Period. Every time.

    Parent
    Idealism is an important and necessary ... (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 11:36:07 PM EST
    ... ingredient in our individual and collective consciousness, for it allows us to envision better lives and outcomes for ourselves, our families, our nation and our world. But from my own perspective, idealism that's unaccompanied by plan and purpose -- that is, a fantasy scenario which is offered without any realistic means, goals and objectives to accomplish one's stated desires -- is nothing more than an impractical and ultimately frustrating exercise in ideological self-indulgence. From Rolling Stone's "Hillary Clinton for President," by Jann S. Wenner:

    "[I]t is not enough to be a candidate of anger. Anger is not a plan; it is not a reason to wield power; it is not a reason for hope. Anger is too narrow to motivate a majority of voters, and it does not make a case for the ability and experience to govern.

    [...]

    "It's easy to blame billionaires for everything, but quite another to know what to do about it. During his 25 years in Congress, [Sen. Bernie] Sanders has stuck to uncompromising ideals, but his outsider stance has not attracted supporters among the Democrats.

    [...]

    "Every time Sanders is challenged on how he plans to get his agenda through Congress and past the special interests, he responds that the 'political revolution' that sweeps him into office will somehow be the magical instrument of the monumental changes he describes. This is a vague, deeply disingenuous idea that ignores the reality of modern America. With the narrow power base and limited political alliances that Sanders had built in his years as the democratic socialist senator from Vermont, how does he possibly have a chance of fighting such entrenched power?

    "I have been to the revolution before. It ain't happening.

    "Hillary Clinton is one of the most qualified candidates for the presidency in modern times, as was Al Gore. We cannot forget what happened when Gore lost and George W. Bush was elected and became arguably one of the worst presidents in American history. The votes cast for the fantasy of Ralph Nader were enough to cost Gore the presidency. Imagine what a similar calculation would do to this country if a 'protest vote' were to put the presidency, Congress and the Supreme Court all in the hands of the extreme right wing that now controls the Republican Party.

    "Clinton not only has the experience and achievements as first lady, senator and secretary of state, but a commitment to social justice and human rights that began for her as a young woman. She was one of those college students in the Sixties who threw herself into the passionate causes of those times, and she continues to do so today.

    [...]

    "You get a sense of 'authenticity' when you hear Sanders talking truth to power, but there is another kind of authenticity, which may not feel as good but is vitally important, when Clinton speaks honestly about what change really requires, about incremental progress, about building on what Obama has achieved in the arenas of health care, clean energy, the economy, the expansion of civil rights. There is an inauthenticity in appeals to anger rather than to reason, for simplified solutions rather than ones that stand a chance of working. This is true about Donald Trump, and lamentably also true about Bernie Sanders.

    [...]

    "Elections have consequences. Bush brought us into a war that still plagues us today; he authorized massive tax cuts for the rich and the corporations; abandoned the Middle East peace process; ushered in the worst financial crisis since the Depression; and totally neglected the climate emergency.

    "This election is even more consequential, a tipping point like none since before the Civil War. We are at the culmination of a decades-long effort by the right wing to take over the government. ... The House, the Senate and, until a month ago, the Supreme Court are under the thumb of special interests and the extremely wealthy, who seek to roll back decades and decades of legislative progress that have furthered 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.' And most horrifying of all, they would stop the world's last-minute effort to fight climate change, where the stakes are the fate of civilization as we now know it.

    "When I consider what's in their hearts, I think both Clinton and Sanders come out on the side of the angels; but when I compare their achievements in the past decades, the choice is clear. This is not the time in history for a 'protest vote.'"

    (Emphasis is mine.)

    I, too, will support our Democratic Party's nominee, whoever she or he may be, to the very utmost of my abilities. But given the present choice before us this primary season, I agree with Ms. Wenner and Rolling Stone:

    "[Hillary] Clinton is far more likely to win the general election than Sanders. The voters who have rallied to Sanders during the primaries are not enough to generate a Democratic majority in November. Clinton will certainly bring them along, and add them to the broad coalition that Democrats have put together in the past to take the presidency, as did Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

    "On the question of experience, the ability to enact progressive change, and the issue of who can win the general election and the presidency, the clear and urgent choice is Hillary Clinton."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    realleft, I agree (4.88 / 8) (#11)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 10:31:59 PM EST
    with you about voting for whoever is the ultimate Dem. nominee and that some won't cross no matter what. I also think Bernie should decide when to fold, and Hillary supporters shouldn't demand he stick to any timetable. His "gusto" is commendable.

    But I also think he's not in it for the right reasons any more. Since it's apparent to almost everyone he won't win, and he's already made his mark with his single-themed economic message (albeit mostly with young voters and Clinton haters), I wish he would accept the praise already bestowed and bow out now, in the interest of party unity and shoring up support against Republicans. That he won't, suggests to me what I've been writing all along, he doesn't have the Democrats' interests at heart.

    Parent

    Thanks for the friendly reply (none / 0) (#52)
    by Realleft on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 01:22:35 PM EST
    I haven't been on here in a longggggg time and I didn't know if my comment would be considered trolling here, even though I didn't mean it to be, and I appreciate the response.

    Honestly, I would have loved to see Elizabeth Warren get in the race, but that's neither here nor there at this point I suppose.

    But "apparent to almost everyone he won't win" isn't quite how I see it at this point, since there are op-eds still almost daily calling the nomination for him, not just endorsing, but predicting. I doubt they're right but I don't write them off either. I don't expect the FBI to charge Hillary with anything, but that's still an open case at this point, and could change the dynamics significantly even if they were BS charges or claims.  And though Hillary is ahead in both votes and delegates, that race isn't sewn up yet either, especially if you subtract the soft commitments of super-delegates from the numbers.

    Now what I expect is that Hillary will win New York next week, and make a strong run on the following next super-ish Tuesday and things will largely tip her way after that.

    But Bernie not have the Democrats' interests at heart?  I suppose that begs the question of which Democrats?  The party leaders, string-pullers and big donors? Or the workers along with principles that the Democratic party has historically rested upon?  If you're like me and see the pro-corporate, pro-militaristic, pro-hidden government, meh-worker drift of the party over the past 25 years as not in the best interests of either Democrats or all American citizens, then that leaves a different picture from one where the focus is on the party machinery.  

    I consider myself a Democrat, and have never voted otherwise.  And I appreciated Bill Clinton bringing the party back from the post-Carter slump, but to me, enough is enough and it's time to refocus on reclaiming our traditional principles and speaking the truth, rather than playing wedge politics and not getting caught saying things that are true but the corporates/military/spies don't want to be said.

    Still as I said to begin with, I vote in November for the Democrat on the ticket, even if the unthinkable would happen and Hillary wins the nomination while Sanders goes on to run as an independent.  I don't expect that, but even in that case I'd vote for Hillary as I'd rather support a Democrat to win than an independent to lose, whatever my core beliefs.

    Anyway, thanks again.

    Parent

    Left out something (none / 0) (#53)
    by Realleft on Thu Apr 14, 2016 at 01:24:23 PM EST
    When I said which Democrats?  Because one thing I don't like about Sanders is his weak, if any, commitment to Democrats downstream.  Hillary is much better on that front, supporting other Democrats running.

    Parent
    There's trying to win more or less (none / 0) (#8)
    by ExPatObserver on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 08:57:03 PM EST
    fairly, and then there's trying to win, Vermont Socialist style. I don't care for the latter.

    Parent
    I'll vote for whoever is the nominee in Nov (none / 0) (#33)
    by ding7777 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 01:33:32 PM EST
    but if Bernie was not in the race, I would probably sit out the primary in my state this month

    Parent
    If you are willing to sit out the primary if Sen. Sanders wasn't in the presidential race, then we can safely assume that you don't feel those other contests are important enough to merit your personal concern and consideration.

    The question begs: Why?

    Seriously, you and a good many others need to wise up, look beyond the Cult of Bernie, and realize that every single election and every single race and question on your ballot is important, whether it's for the presidency, Congress, governor, comptroller, state legislature, city council, county commission, or the authorization of a new bond issue for your local school district.

    There was recently a conscious failure on the part of many Sanders voters in Wisconsin to even consider the other race on the ballot that primary election day. What was the point of voting for Bernie, if they were going to simply hand a ten-year term on that state's Supreme Court to a right-wing bigot and crackpot through their own benign neglect, by leaving the rest of the ballot blank?

    If you're going to vote, then embrace the concept fully and participate wholeheartedly. That means educating yourself about the other races taking place, and then making informed choices. Don't just jump on Bernie's bandwagon like some dilettante because it's currently the trendy thing to do, to the virtual exclusion of everyone else who's running for state and local offices.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Why not poll people in Africa, (none / 0) (#7)
    by ExPatObserver on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 08:55:05 PM EST
    Asia and South America, too! The US is a global leader and as such, don't you think that leadership decisions which affect billions of people should take into consideration the will of those
    people? Of course people outside of the US can't vote, but for the sake of humanity, superdelegates could consider polling results from other countries---as long as those polls have the correct tilt, of course.

    there was an ISIS supporter (none / 0) (#10)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Apr 12, 2016 at 10:20:43 PM EST
    who tweeted that today -- since the U.S. is calling the shots in the Middle East, middle easterners should get to vote in the November election.

    Parent
    Wonder who would lead (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 08:26:45 AM EST
    That poll

    Parent
    Who is the (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Steve13209 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 12:39:56 PM EST
    Get the US totally out of the Middle East, candidate?

    Parent
    Out of curiosity, what's Sanders' (none / 0) (#43)
    by ExPatObserver on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 04:26:23 PM EST
    position on humanitarian intervention? Has he ever expressed an opinion about Rwanda?
    If Isis starts using nerve gas in Damascus, will he be happy to keep the US out?

    Parent
    Bernie (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by FlJoe on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 04:41:12 PM EST
    voted in support of regime change in Iraq and Libya, voted for intervention in Bosnia, voted for the 2001 AUMF that enabled the invasion of Afghanistan (which actually gave Bush more sweeping power than the 2002 vote), he is not a pacifist, that's for sure.

    Parent
    I don't know if it's good or bad (none / 0) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 09:11:37 AM EST
    That he's still in. He's a distraction. The wild clans of the Republican base cannot unite in their Hillary hate cuz whatabout Sanders....and all those states he won in a row?

    I KNOW I'M SICK AND WRONG TO EVEN THINK IT BUT IT'S GOING TO BE 24/7 HILLARY HATE AROUND ME SOON ENOUGH. And this tiny voice in my head whispers, "Thanks Bernie."

    But I live in the crazy crap zone where when she's it, I won't be able to walk down the street or through a grocery store in peace.

    Maybe (none / 0) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 09:23:01 AM EST
    their heads will explode from all the conspiracy theories.

    Parent
    It's going to be awful (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 09:29:05 AM EST
    You know what's going to be THE WORST for me? All the Southern women in my age group who will full throated and from their diaphrams pronounce her bossy...not feminine...not woman like.

    And the Bill thing, she just let him treat her like trash. Ahem, Alabama had THE MOST Ashley Madison male owned accounts per capita of any state in Union.....sigh.

    What the Deep South does to a woman is pretty dispicable, you are so divorced from reality you become the thing you say you hate.

    Parent

    Oh, yeah (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 10:13:42 AM EST
    but it was going to be ugly no matter what where you are living. If Bernie was the nominee you would hear the constant talk about how his wife looks like she walked out of homeless shelter and continuous lectures on socialism. Of course with the odious candidates in the GOP they are probably going to focus more on Hillary.

    In the south everything is the woman's fault and too many women think that same way. It's very sad but it also exposes that they really don't believe in personal responsibility do they?

    Parent

    And then I'll do something horrible and say (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 09:32:34 AM EST
    That doesn't bother me so much, she's been in bed with a few Generals. She called Petraeus and McChrystal by their first names when she was at State.......and Oh....Oh....then heads will splode

    Parent
    You bad girl! (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by sallywally on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 01:48:53 PM EST
    Trump in Pittsburgh tonight (none / 0) (#42)
    by smott on Wed Apr 13, 2016 at 03:37:23 PM EST
    Reddit posts have armed Trumpsters patrolling Oakland to stop protesters blocking traffic.
    Pgh Police are not pleased....