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Obama Endorses Hillary, Sanders Marches to His Own Drum

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2016
Posted on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 07:45:07 PM EST
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Bernie Sanders didn't quite get the reaction he wanted by his Washington trip. He got eclipsed in the name of Democratic party unity.

Bernie Sanders remains insistent on competing in the D.C. primary. He says after that, he'll work to defeat Trump. Bernie Sanders is tone-deaf. His view of his self-importance is very inflated. He is not the story any longer. The story is Hillary vs Trump. [More...]

Memo to Bernie: Don't bother. We don't need you or your supporters. I don't know anyone that isn't just rolling their eyes by now when Sanders name comes up. We're so, so tired of you.

Elizabeth Warren endorsed Hillary Clinton today when speaking to the Boston Globe.

“I’m ready,” said Warren in an interview with The Globe Thursday evening. “I’m ready to jump in this fight and make sure that Hillary Clinton is the next president of the United States and be sure that Donald Trump gets nowhere near the White House.”

“I’m supporting Hillary Clinton bc [because] she’s a fighter, a fighter with guts,” Warren said.

Sounds like the interview was by email or instant message. Warren is also expected to endorse Hillary Clinton tonight on the Rachel Maddow show on MSNBC.

The media is shockingly negative about Hillary Clinton. It gets harder every day to find a neutral or positive news article about her. At first it was disappointing. Now it's predictable and just another sign about how tenuous the relationship between the media and journalism has become. Everybody wants to be the National Enquirer. Why? My theory: Because attacks get more social media mentions, which drive advertising dollars, like website hits used to do. Since Millenials drive social media, the media tries to attract them, and that means keeping Sanders' story alive and trashing Hillary. Just my view.

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    Obama Endorses Hillary, Sanders Marches to His Own Drum | 195 comments (195 topical)

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    I share your view (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 07:48:15 PM EST
    Entirely

    The Warren interview (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 08:38:07 PM EST
    On Maddow is really great.  Well, Warren is great.  

    Ha (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 08:39:23 PM EST
    If you were chosen to be Vice President do you feel you could do that job.

    Yes I do.

    End of interview.

    Parent

    I'm pretty sure (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by pitachips on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 09:06:20 PM EST
    We do need Sanders supporters. At least most of them. Otherwise we don't win.

    Hillary Clinton is the nominee (3.67 / 3) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 09:10:35 PM EST
    Donald Trump is the other nominee.  Any one who would even consider voting for Trump or even staying home is to stupid to get one more second of attention.   The choice could not be more clear.  If they don't want to make the sane choice, fu@k um.  We can win without them.

    Parent
    Gov Stevens, every thinking person will vote for.. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 09:39:58 PM EST
    Madame I need a majority.

    Applies here too

    Parent

    You really think Hillary is Adlai Stevenson (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:03:57 PM EST
    And Trump is Eisenhower

    We will have a majority.

    Parent

    I think nothing is for certain (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:38:37 PM EST
    And anything can go wrong, usually at the worst possible moment.

    Even when Donald Trrump is the opponent.

    Parent

    Agreed. (4.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:10:41 PM EST
    As I've told one earlier today, who offered condescendingly that he would "hold his nose" and vote for Mrs. Clinton:

    "Please understand that we're going to win in November, regardless of whether or not you choose to join us. If you decide to vote for Hillary Clinton, it will be due to the fact that you've determined it to be in your own very best interest to do so, and not because you're seeking to be charitable to your moral inferiors."

    The vast majority of Sanders supporters fully realize what's at stake here, and will join us to ensure that Donald Trump never sees the inside of the White House except by public tour.

    As for the Bernie Bros, the Clinton campaign's door is open and if they want to join us, then they'll be welcomed with open arms. But if they think anyone is going to chase after them to kiss their a$$es and beg for their support, they'll be in for a very long wait.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Yes. (1.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Towanda on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:25:31 PM EST
    Yawn.  #FeelTheBoredom, Bros.

    Parent
    I was watching video (1.00 / 1) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:46:54 PM EST
    Of him earlier this evening at this rally in DC.  Talking about all the things he was going to do when he was president.  Literally in those terms.

    It's really beyond laughable or boring at this point,  it's become sad and embarrassing.  

    Parent

    plenty more comments (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 06:00:33 PM EST
    to troll rate downthread.  what happened?   run out of "1s"

    Parent
    It's time to lay off (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by FreakyBeaky on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:44:02 PM EST
    This party unity thing looks like it's happening quicker and more painlessly than I dared hope. Anything further aimed at Sanders is friendly fire.

    Really? (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:51:36 PM EST
    Watch him in DC tonight and tell me about all this unity.

    LINK

    Parent

    NYTimes (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:54:38 PM EST
    a speech of striking stubborness

    Parent
    It's over (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by FreakyBeaky on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 09:50:34 AM EST
    It's been over. Barack and Liz have spoken. Time to move on.

    (And don't read the comments.)

    Parent

    It's over when Bernie says it's over (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 09:57:54 AM EST
    He has made that very very clear.  Sticking my head in the sand and saying it's all good  is not my usual thing.

    Parent
    It's as if (none / 0) (#44)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:34:25 AM EST
    The Toronto Raptors were to say they will be NBA Champs this year even after losing in the semis.

    Parent
    You cede the man far too much power (none / 0) (#116)
    by FreakyBeaky on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 04:43:05 AM EST


    Parent
    Here's a better link (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 11:03:56 PM EST
    To the "simply amazing" speech.

    LINK

    the comments are fun to.  And just sloppin over with unity.

    Parent

    I have (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 04:32:07 AM EST
    a friend that started out as a Bernie supporter who now constantly refers to him as "Crazy Bernie".

    The media toured his home in Vermont and he had a statue of Don Quixote. How appropriate.

    Parent

    The game is won (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:52:10 PM EST
    ...in the fourth quarter.

    Trump is not going to know what hit him.  The combined political weight of a popular incumbent who wants to assure his legacy along with several powerful women supporting HRC will be levied against a cowering, sniveling RNC that can't even bear to put their presidential candidate's name on their website.

    Elizabeth Warren has obviously been given the green light and the task of lobbing the grenades.  Since she is female and far smarter than Trump, this will push all his buttons.  He can't help himself, he has to respond, and he will further embarrass the GOP.

    Gee, even I know that.  Pretty sure the Democratic campaign knows it too.

    It's going to be a rout.

    To quote Oliver Cromwell: (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 11:10:41 PM EST
    "They are coming down; the Lord hath delivered them into our hands."

    Parent
    Great quote, (none / 0) (#35)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 09:33:38 AM EST
    Bad example.

    Parent
    Given that we're not talking about Cromwell, ... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:57:32 AM EST
    ... or comparing anyone we're talking about to him, that would be both obvious and irrelevant.

    Parent
    You should be writing for Trump. (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:38:57 AM EST
    I didn't quote Cromwell; you did.

    I just showed what happened to him.

    Own it, Donald.

    Parent

    Cromwell liked to beseech people (none / 0) (#55)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:10:14 AM EST
    "in the bowels of Christ", which might be an appropriate quote when the consider the significance that properly functioning bowels assume for Hillary's largest demograph of supporters.

    Parent
    Really nice (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Nemi on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 06:57:02 AM EST
    and gracious piece by Sally Kohn, a Bernie voter, who despite her own preference as a woman acknowledges that having a female nominee is a really big deal:

    Hillary Clinton is the first woman to win a major party's nomination for president. Whatever your political leanings, whatever your gender, whatever your perspective on the merits of feminism, this moment is a big deal. There have only been 56 other presidential elections in all of American history and none of them have included a woman candidate leading a major ticket.

    I want to celebrate it. Bask in it. Grin and hoot and holler. I don't want to wrestle, at least not yet, with the ideological tensions and contentions that I, as a Bernie Sanders supporter, know bubble just beneath the surface. Nor do I want to heed the admonitions of the anti-Obama, anti-identity politics, anti-political correctness backlash Donald Trump is fomenting and exploiting around the country, admonitions designed to make us feel guilty for even acknowledging the glass ceiling. I don't want to process my own unarguable residue of internalized anti-feminism that makes me afraid to "play the gender card."  I just want to grab the damn card and wave it proudly.
    Another nice one (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Nemi on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 07:40:03 AM EST
    -- they really are out there :) -- this from The Baltimore Sun, The shattered ceiling:

    The glass ceiling metaphor is going to be invoked a lot this week and rightly so. With her double-digit victory in California and her overwhelming lead in both the popular vote and the delegate tally, Hillary Rodham Clinton has broken a 240-year-old barrier to become the first woman to hold the title of presumptive nominee of a major U.S. political party.

    No matter what one may think of the former first lady (and there is clearly no shortage of haters out there), this was a major barrier to be shattered. She acknowledged as much in her rousing speech Tuesday night in Brooklyn that invoked the women's rights movement from the Seneca Falls Convention to present.

    [...]

    But make no mistake, this is big. As of today, the whole parent-daughter chat about "you can grow up to be anything you want to be including president of the United States" sounds a bit more credible than it did the day before. And few candidates better embody the struggles women have faced in the last half-century -- from balancing motherhood to career to be accepted in the various male-dominated professions -- than the presumptive Democratic nominee.
    [...]

    [Hillary Clinton] has consistently been treated more harshly by her opponents and the press than her peers -- whether that's because she's a woman or a Clinton may depend on one's point of view. And given the nature of this campaign, one suspects the most vile and misogynistic attacks are still to come.
    [...]

    Women have made considerable progress in the U.S. since the days of suffrage but not without a struggle. Even with Ms. Clinton's achievement, the ultimate glass ceiling barring women from the Oval Office, has not been shattered quite yet. That it took nearly full nine decades after the passage of the 19th Amendment to come this far perhaps demonstrates how the U.S. came to rank so miserably in electing women to political office.

    Something I didn't think about until someone pointed it out to me: Hillary Clinton wearing white as a shout out to the suffragettes? :)

    Parent

    So, late at night (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Nemi on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 07:04:36 AM EST
    after hours of waiting and many in the audience having already given up and left, after Hillary Clinton had been declared the winner of California ... too, after she had made her speech as the first female presidential nominee for a major party, a speech that parents across the country let their young daughters stay up to see, to witness history in the making, some even contemplating waking up their toddlers, after she had called him - yes, she, the winner, called him! - and apparently long after his yawning grandkids' bedtime, Bernie Sanders finally arrived at the venue where he was expected to make his (stump?)speech, and was introduced with these words

    Ladies and Gentlemen please welcome the next President of The United States ... Bernieee Sandeeers!

    Now, was that really necessary ...

    Oh! Just noticed that the 'meme' apparently continues. [deep sigh]

    I empathize with the (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:14:01 PM EST
    Bernie Bros who say that since Sanders did not win, they will vote for Trump.  The other day I was in Publix and they did not have my favorite beer, so I bought a cold Drano.  But, trying to make Bernie proud, keeping jobs here, I did get domestic rather than imported. But, then, I may not be able to vote for Trump, having to stay home.   Same thing, I think.

    I empathize with the Bernie Bros... (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 02:17:42 PM EST
    who say that since Sanders did not win, they will vote for Clinton.  The other day I was in ShopRite, and they won't have the local sweet and delicious Long Island corn till harvest time in August, so I bought the big-agri corn brought to us by Monsanto, because I can't f*cking stand beets and all they had was big-agri corn and beets.

    Parent
    I empathize with (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 02:49:56 PM EST
    Bernie Bros who thought Bernie would go for environmental justice, but sponsored a bill to send Vermont's nuclear waste to the poor, Latino community of Sierra Blanca, near El Paso, TX.  Jane did get put on the Texas Commission on Radioactive Waste Disposal.  So there is that.

    Parent
    You don't want a shady dealing... (none / 0) (#92)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 02:57:19 PM EST
    swinging d*ck match K.D...you know you don't!

    I'm well aware Bernie has his baggage too...not every supporter deified the guy, just saw him as a far better option.  But we're talking a duffel bag vs. a full set of Samsonite.  

    Parent

    I like you, Mr K but my money is on (none / 0) (#93)
    by vml68 on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 03:06:08 PM EST
    KeysDan (and Hillary) on this contest.
    Remember, we are talking Bernie vs Hillary not Bill.
    As much as some posters here would like to pretend that they are one and the same person (supposed Liberals, at that) they are not :-)

    Parent
    I'm aware... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 03:36:10 PM EST
    I hold Bill too much against Hil, and that's my failing. We talk about the disappointment and disillusionment of young voters, and for me that phenomenon is personified by that s.o.b. Bill.  In 1992 I bought into the Dems good/Republicans bad paradigm without thinking, and by 2000 I was appalled to have voted for the guy.

    But don't kid yourself, Hillary has her own set of luggage, not as packed as Bill's but far heavier than Bernie's...imho.

    And if you'll be fair in kind, if Hillary is going to count her husbands terms as accomplishments on her resume, she must take the good with the bad. I think of her as his primary and most trusted adviser for those two terms, is that not fair?

    Parent

    Your (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 05:24:08 PM EST
    hatred of the Clintons blinds you to history. Bill Clinton governed as promised, a centrist in a center right country, give him and all his fellow Democrats a break. Like it or not political parties must go where the votes are, in theory that's the essence of  Democracy.

    Time and time again the Naderites, Greenies and Berners ignore that one immutable fact, you mistake your passion as consensus. Your ridiculous white knight theories and calls for revolution is just pissing into the winds political reality.

    Maybe you're the problem KDog, your young fee fees were hurt by the cold harsh reality of history and you and many more like you ave the FK up, rather than stay in for the long fight and join the long struggle to change the arc of history.

    Frankly with all your sideline bitching and name calling, useless protest votes and refusal to besmirch yourself by checking a fking box even when your Unicorn is finally on the ballot makes me think of you as a political coward.

    Rant off


    Parent

    It wasn't so much my feelings hurt... (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by kdog on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 08:08:30 AM EST
    as my freedoms hurt. My country. The left's cave to the right on crime got me and too many friends/acquaintances arrest records, the left's cave to big money left too many of my generation, and more so the one behind it, running to stand still. The left's cave to the right on unnecessary war left many casualties.

    Some sins you can shrug off, some you shouldn't, and some should never ever vote for.

    End rant in kind.

    Parent

    Having (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 12:42:45 PM EST
    a majority of your fellow citizens vote for politicians you disapprove of is NOT infringing on your rights in any way.

    Parent
    And what's this "your fellow Democrats"? (none / 0) (#143)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 01:59:34 PM EST
    Millions of Democrats voted for Clinton, that doesn't automatically mean that their hearts and minds and ideals were all in exact synch with all of Clinton's maneuverings.

    You sound like you're making an appeal to some everybodies-doing-it Lemming instinct..

    Get with the program, before you get left out in the cold..

    Probably the country moved to Right in the first place was, in part, because
    we've had leaders like Clinton who were ashamed of where they came from and disdainful of the poor and working class of reminded them of it

    Parent

    Don't agree at all with (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:34:40 PM EST
    your assumptions about Clinton and the country's move to the right.  Have you read David Brock's Blinded by the Right, or, Carl Bernstein's bio of Hillary.  Bernstein set out to do a hit piece, but in 500+ pages and extensive investigation he could come up with pitifully little to criticize and recognized the predicament the Clintons were in during the 1990s with a hostile right Congress.

    Parent
    ad hominem is definitely your strong suit (none / 0) (#109)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 09:25:30 PM EST
    when it comes to polite debate.

    Parent
    Interesting (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Jane in CA on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 06:14:15 PM EST
    I was just the opposite -- voted reluctantly for Clinton in 1992, feeling that he was way too conservative. Thought him one of our best presidents ever by 2000.

    I agree with the poster below that party had to move to the center to survive. And I am someone my (very liberal) manager once called "the most liberal person (he) had ever known in real life."

    I guess I'm just becoming more of a pragmatist. The Clintons are incrementalists, for sure. Hillary too. But I don't necessarily accept that as bad. You take the little steps when you can and wait for the timing for the next step. Eventually you get to where you want to go, even if it doesn't happen overnight.

     

    Parent

    Incrementalism ain't bad necessarily... (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by kdog on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 08:21:06 AM EST
    It's all about what you're compromising away, and what you're really working incrementally towards. I'm not convinced it's a positive incrementalist path as far as economics and foreign policy is concerned.

    Good news is I think the country is going left, and the third way is dying, and we're 8 years away from a very liberal president presiding over a more liberal Senate. And if we can ungerrymander the House by then we will really be cooking with oil!

    Parent

    I Don't Disagree With You (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Jane in CA on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 03:26:48 PM EST
    About the economy. It puzzles me still that the things Bill Clinton did that lifted the boats for everyone in the country were essentially the same acts that allowed following presidents to cede so much power to Wall Street.

    Bottom line: they only worked in favor of our economy with someone like Bill Clinton himself at the helm. Dangerous precedent, to give yourself powers that your successors can also use, and one of the reasons that candidate Obama so appalled me when he switched his vote on telecom immunity once he realized his presidency was almost certain. I feel the same about many of his executive privileges.

    They may be well and good right now, but what happens if we get a President Trump in office? That is the one lesson Bill Clinton taught me. Just because he made something work doesn't mean future presidents would have the same desire or ability.

    I think often of how FDR's changes were institutionalized, more or less, in the same form he envisioned them, and how Clinton's were corrupted. I don't have any answers, it's just something I think about a lot. Would a Gore presidency have institutionalized the changes Clinton envisioned for all Americans? If so, than the loss of the 2000 presidency becomes even more painful ...

    Parent

    Got me, kdog. (none / 0) (#94)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 03:12:20 PM EST
    But (a) you are not a Bernie Bro, and (b) there is more to that match than the swing. And, I like Bernie in many ways and would have voted for him if he won.  He will not win, having lost. Time for his supporters to swing to Hillary.

    Parent
    Some of us can't Man... (none / 0) (#96)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 03:24:57 PM EST
    some us would never even consider a Democrat if not for a select couple of them with their fingers really on the pulse on issues that matter deeply to us, and a track record of walking the walk.  

    Flip the ticket to Warren/Clinton at your convention and I'm all in.  Sh*t if she had thrown her hat in instead of Bernie I think that would be the ticket.

    Fantasies aside...I see more conservatives will be coming your way than liberals going the other way, so your horse is sitting prettier than that other horse who will be lucky if he isn't sent to the glue factory before the big race, and will sure to be sent there after.    

    Parent

    Hoping NY is deepest blue. But what if (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 01:30:20 AM EST
    Trump is elected and NY eneded up a win for him?  

    Parent
    Well then (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 08:09:47 AM EST
    Hillary just didn't work hard enough to convince to people of NY to vote for her obviously.

    Parent
    You do what you think is right... (none / 0) (#122)
    by kdog on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 08:11:38 AM EST
    and come what may Oc.

    Parent
    You know (none / 0) (#123)
    by Nemi on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 08:14:56 AM EST
    what you did there is what Al Giordano - the guy who will challenge Bernie Sanders in 2018 if he, Bernie, doesn't reign in his 'Dudebros' and himself before the Democratic Convention - calls 'chicken-littleing' and does not allow from his followers on Twitter. :)

    Parent
    Not going to happen (none / 0) (#171)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:35:48 PM EST
    No way Trump gets more votes than Hillary in NY.  

    Parent
    Malia Obama (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 05:45:40 PM EST
    graduated from high school today at Sidwell Friends. I hope she's excited about the future. I believe Sidwell Friends is the same one Chelsea Clinton went to.

    Hillary gave another great speech today, (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by vml68 on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 12:10:11 AM EST
    this time at Planned Parenthood.
    Sorry, I can't link right now but it is easy enough to find and well worth doing so.

    Here you go (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 07:35:38 AM EST
    Hillary Clinton 6/10/2016

    Parent
    Yes, it was a great (none / 0) (#152)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 03:42:53 PM EST
    speech. Don't understand the comments that Mrs. Clinton is uninspiring; this presentation was awesome in it content and context.  

    Parent
    Same thing about her "unfavorability" (none / 0) (#173)
    by sallywally on Sun Jun 12, 2016 at 02:12:47 AM EST
    ratings. She got more votes than anyone else on either side in the primaries, how much could people be feeling unfavorably about her? The whole bit about her being uninspiring is a mystery to me as well. She is a singularly impressive person. Again, her vote total shows that she has inspired quite a lot of people, more than the other candidates.....

    Parent
    Interesting (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 10:27:24 AM EST
    article on the racial divide created by Sanders. FWIW it's politico.

    From the ridiculous talking point file... (5.00 / 4) (#157)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 04:24:51 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton would not want to campaign with a  more personable and popular E. warren or B. Obama for fear of being upstaged....

    This being said about a woman who has been married to Bill Clinton for 40+ years....

    Oh, good lord (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 05:44:44 PM EST
    He must not have seen Elizabeth Warren's "unfavorable" numbers when she was running for the senate. I guess if she was the VP we would be hearing all about that. I saw an article in the NYT that talked about how imperious she is. The only solace I get out of that kind of statement is it's not just Hillary that gets that kind of treatment.

    Parent
    Yes, this was Bill Mlaher's (none / 0) (#159)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 04:43:10 PM EST
    line on his show last night. Wondered aloud if people would not feel it should be a Warren/Clinton ticket.   It seemed to get dead air from his audience...as if this was something that did not occur to them.   Since Bill was offering some reality therapy for the Bernie supporters (whom he says he is one) that Hillary won "fair and square," this may have been a transition nod to the broken hearted.

    Parent
    According to the Washington Post, Sanders (4.00 / 3) (#3)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 08:32:45 PM EST
    will challenge the California vote tabulation.

    I ONLY LOST BY (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 08:37:14 PM EST
    SINGLE DIGITS.  ITS A CONSPIRACY!

    Parent
    HEY! IF TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS ... (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:14:58 PM EST
    ... THE ONLINE EQUIVALENT OF SHOUTING, then how does one similarly convey the wagging of one's finger and the chopping of air for effect?

    ;-D

    Parent

    What is wrong (4.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 08:54:52 PM EST
    with him? I saw that earlier today and thought why????

    Maybe Hillary will beat him by 15 points instead of 13 points.

    Well, maybe he can go out to California and sit in an empty room and count them all by himself. That should keep him busy for quite a while.

    Parent

    There's an easy explanation ... (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:43:17 PM EST
    ... for the disparity between the polls and the final results in California. While election day was Tuesday, absentee voters had received their ballots in the mail over a month ago, and could start returning them as of May 10, four weeks earlier. Further, early voting started in mid-May.

    The Clinton campaign specifically began targeting potential early voters in California last January, long before the Sanders campaign ever turned its attention there. So, even though statewide polls were closing rapidly in the final days before the California primary, it looks nearly 40% of all Democratic ballots in California had already been cast via absentee or early voting. And further, most of those early voters were right in Mrs. Clinton's demographic wheelhouse, i.e., people who are age 50 and older.

    That's why those surprising early returns showed Clinton so far ahead by 25-26 points. Yet it was really not a surprise to the Clinton campaign and more importantly, it was a deficit which Sanders was never going to make up on June 7 alone. And it further looks like she even won the same-day voting, albeit by a significantly lesser margin of only 2-3%, which is what the late polls were telling us in the final days.

    That accounts for the percentage differential between the two candidates closing to 13 points at the final count. If you watched the raw numbers of votes cast as they were rung up on Tuesday night, Clinton kept gaining in the overall vote tally even though that differential started to narrow.

    Effectively, the Clinton campaign had already won California via vote-banking, thanks to the staff's targeted efforts to drive early voters to the polls, which happened well before the Sanders campaign ever laced up its running shoes for that leg of the race. And I suppose that'll now be offered as a reason why we need to get rid of early voting.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You know (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 04:29:49 AM EST
    there were plenty of polls that were correct like SUSA for example and there also was one that was on the money but I don't remember who it was. Just because the stupid media found 2 polls that said it was close and that's all they reported doesn't mean their reporting was correct. If they had been truthful they would have put CA as an uphill climb for Bernie simply due to demographics and the fact that Hillary won CA in 2008.

    Parent
    But of course he will, lol :) (none / 0) (#28)
    by Nemi on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 06:52:12 AM EST


    Parent
    I wonder (3.50 / 2) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 08:07:23 PM EST
    if anything will change on that account once Bernie drops out. The tiresome thing is Bernie has more or less become a useful idiot for the media and Trump to hide behind.

    MSNBC in the tank for Sanders/Warren (none / 0) (#8)
    by sallywally on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 08:57:29 PM EST
    who they see as very close in world view/approach, etc. is that actually correct? i thought Warren was as close to Hillary as to Sanders, effectively.

    Don't seem to know Sanders is back in the weeds.

    Maddow, Hayes, Reid want Warren as vp to save the govt from Hillary, I guess.

    Then what about saving Warren's Senate seat ... (none / 0) (#19)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:47:31 PM EST
    ... from Massachusetts GOP Gov. Charlie Baker?

    Parent
    Special election will be called. (none / 0) (#167)
    by midcenturymod on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 08:57:40 PM EST
    The MA Dems think they can win it.

    Parent
    The MA Dems thought they could (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:26:06 PM EST
    win it when Ted Kennedy's seat came open. Instead we got Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA).

    Charlie Baker would have a good chance of winning if Warren's seat opened up. Too risky.

    Parent

    The media is ridiculous (none / 0) (#25)
    by texpolitico on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 11:56:49 PM EST
    The beat down BS got in CA should show them that Clinton has a firm command of her campaign.  And that the steady drum beat of negativity will turn against them. Make no mistake, Warren and other surrogates will come out against the media and their tiresome anti-Clinton commentary.  There will be a course correction probably after Labor Day when things get really hot.  

    I don't know J... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 08:34:04 AM EST
    in my circles, the eye rolls come when the beholder realizes it's Clinton or Trump in The 2016 Unfavorable Sweepstakes.  

    Bill Maher is always talking about the GOP loyals living in a bubble...I think the Dem loyals got a little bubble brewing too.    

    Bernie (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:15:55 AM EST
    supporters love to quote favorables but that would be gone in a NY minute once the GOP got a hold of him.

    Besides the polls have been so messed up and even if people tell Bernie they "like" him they sure can't be bothered to show up and vote for him. I guess they like him until a game of beer pong comes up and then it doesn't matter.

    Parent

    The GOP got a hold of him.. (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:58:34 AM EST
    Right. Because so far, if nothing else, the GOP has just proven themselves So fiendishly brilliant and strategic in running this campaign and appealing to the hearts and minds of the masses..

    A force to be reckoned with those folks are.

    That's why they nominated a crash test dummy with a mouth to issue such a daunting challenge to Mrs Clinton.

    Parent

    Are you (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:06:31 AM EST
    kidding? He's an unknown that would be easily defined by the GOP. If the GOP created a candidate in a lab to run against it would be Bernie. Heck, he couldn't even handle the mild jabs Hillary gave him without whining. Just because Hillary who has been fighting them for 25 years or more knows how to do it doesn't mean Bernie can do it. A crash test dummy unfortunately would be able to take Bernie down.

    Parent
    Right.. (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:20:54 AM EST
    I forgot. Hillary always responds and misspeaks, Bernie always "whines" and lies.

    All the same stuff you said about Obama..

    What a waste of time.


    Parent

    I've been and met... (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:44:16 AM EST
    some homers in my day, but our friend GA takes the cake.

    I felt the same way about Jimmy Superfly Snuka.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#65)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:44:22 AM EST
    I don't have anytime for purity politics and politicians as Jesus. I'm glad to know you are privileged enough where you can let purity make your decisions for you.

    Parent
    Like most things "purity" (2.33 / 3) (#71)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:02:25 PM EST
    is a matter of degree.

    But, I don't think we should always be forced to "settle for", as if we were all married to well-connected serial gropers who we need to advance our careers.  

    Parent

    I wonder (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:06:05 PM EST
    If you even realize who you sound like.

    Parent
    Not Lionel Barrymore? (none / 0) (#77)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:26:04 PM EST
    The Chinese used to say if the wrong man says the right thing it means nothing.

    But I did think No One Left To Lie To was pretty on-target..

    Parent

    A rather odd comment. (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:47:42 PM EST
    From all accounts, Hillary Clinton is smarter than her husband.  And, when they got married, neither of them was "well-connected."

    Parent
    Hey, jondee, that's a cheap shot. (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:58:08 PM EST
    One that should be beneath you.

    Parent
    I cheap shot.. (none / 0) (#127)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:31:08 AM EST
    But you never make a peep when your cohorts regularly shred Jane Sanders and insult the thousands of female Sanders supporters by calling them "Bros".

    Don't get me started.

    I calls 'em like I see 'em, brother.

    Parent

    Please (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:41:02 AM EST
    Share the gender neutral term for Bernie Bros.

    Parent
    Bernie Peeps? (none / 0) (#135)
    by RickyJim on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 10:19:45 AM EST


    Parent
    Tell it like it is bro (bra?) (none / 0) (#145)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 02:18:01 PM EST


    Parent
    Nobody here calls female Sanders (none / 0) (#162)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 05:28:58 PM EST
    supporters "Bros." Nobody. Nobody anywhere calls female Sanders supporters "Bros." What are you talking about?

    Parent
    the condescending (none / 0) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 01:16:05 PM EST
    smarm and sexism just reeks in that statement. Of course she has no opinions of her own, she doesn't matter, it's all about Bill. This primary has proven that the further left you go the more right you are as these are all circular. Yes, Jondee things were great before Bill came on the scene losing three landslide elections in a row. And all during that time the nihilistic prophecies of the Naderites were left unfulfilled.

    Parent
    Yes... (none / 0) (#89)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 02:32:39 PM EST
    thank god for Bill, who saved us from another bitter Democratic defeat by abandoning the ideals that made one a Democrat.

    Never again would anyone accuse him of being soft on crime!  No ma'am, Democrats can kill a man just as dead as a Republican can.  And knock a single mother off of public assistance as heartlessly as a Republican.  Or print Wall St. more licenses to steal with just as fine a print as any Republican.  Just win baby!
     

    Parent

    So you would (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 03:17:11 PM EST
    be glad to have at least two more Anton Scalias on the court? You would be glad for people who changed jobs to lose their health insurance? You would be glad for middle class children with special needs children to be taking it on the chin with no help? You would be glad for the wealthiest in the country to be paying less taxes instead of more? You would be glad the country had gone to voucher care and voucher schooling? You would have been glad for the county to have started the Iraq War in the 90's instead of after 9/11? The list goes on and on.

    Welfare reform was supported by 90% of the county Kdog. Even people who were part of that system said it needed reform.

    You don't get purity with any candidate.

    Parent

    All those female Bros (none / 0) (#128)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:37:45 AM EST
    have no minds or opinions or status of their own either.

    They're just there to do "the boys" bidding, as Gloria CIA Steinem says.

    Speaking of condescension at it's most loathsome.

    Parent

    Only (none / 0) (#132)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:53:42 AM EST
    you would think that someone was including Bernie's female supporters with the word "bros". FYI the Bernie bros refers to Bernie's male supporters. As far as I know Bernie's female supporters have been treated as bad by the bros as Hillary's.

    Parent
    By referring constantly to the Bros (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 10:18:49 AM EST
    you just erase the females from reality and history and from any relevance, just the same way the Taliban would do it.

    They just don't matter. What they think doesn't matter. All their hopes and dreams don't matter.

    Believe me, I get it.

    Parent

    No, you don't get it. (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 05:30:32 PM EST
    On this subject you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

    Parent
    In the final analysis (none / 0) (#138)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 10:33:25 AM EST
    it's just a cheap smear.

    And another way of psychologically bullying the Real Women into mindlessly supporting Hillary.

    Because, you know, leaving women to make up their own minds is just a waste of time.

    Parent

    You seem to not know what the (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 05:27:14 PM EST
    term "Bernie Bros" means. It has nothing to do with women. Nothing.

    Bernie Bros refers to a specific subset of Sanders supporters. These are young white males, or people claiming online to be young white males. who stalk and harass and insult anyone they think is either a outright Clinton supporter or insufficiently in the bag for Bernie.

    These are the people who attacked Warren's Facebook page and Twitter feed because she did not endorse Sanders before the Massachusetts primary, thus being the reason,in the minds of the Bros, for Sanders loss in the Bay State. These are the guys who left voicemails and texts threatening the chairwoman of the Nevada Democratic Party.

    These are men. No women, at least no one who identifies themselves online as a woman.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with bullying women who support Bernie or not allowing them to make up their own minds. Nothing.

    Parent

    There has been some discussion (none / 0) (#164)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 05:31:32 PM EST
    On HuffPo for one about female Bernie Bros.   Apparrently there are certainly females who fit the profile as far as the attacks on Hillary supporters and even who use the hash tag.

    Parent
    Oh (none / 0) (#165)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 05:34:12 PM EST
    And reading about my question upthread about the gender neutral term, it's Apparrently #Bernieorbust

    Parent
    oh my god (none / 0) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 10:35:29 AM EST
    Seriously?  

    Parent
    Yes, It took till 2007 2008 (none / 0) (#133)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 10:04:34 AM EST
    for the fruits of nihilistic Wall Street deregulation to come to fruition.

    I fail to see how saying the country's on the wrong track and making recommendations to get it on the right track qualify as nihilism.

    Let's not rewrite the lexicon, the way conservatives try to do. Nihilists say that nothing matters and that destruction for it's own sake is the only meaningful act.

    You calling Nader a Nihilist is like Christians calling non-Christians devil-worshippers or Hillary calling poor mothers on welfare deadbeats.


    Parent

    Koch Brothers funded (none / 0) (#172)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:41:46 PM EST
    pro-Bernie, anti Hillary ads earlier in the primaries because they knew Bernie would be easier to beat if he were the Dem running for President and the full weight of Repub oppo research was brought to bear against him.  

    Parent
    We are motivated by love; (none / 0) (#33)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 09:25:43 AM EST
    They are motivated by hate.

    Good vs Evil.  It's simple.  It's elemental.

    It is important.

    Parent

    Holy hell (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 09:30:55 AM EST
    Please define "we" and "they".

    Because if you mean what I think you mean it has to be sarcasm or irony or freaking something because you can not possibly be serious.

    Parent

    You are wrong. (none / 0) (#39)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:16:57 AM EST


    Parent
    Whatever man (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:21:28 AM EST
    Believing yourself to be the "good" involved in a battle of "good vs evil", if it's democrats vs republicans, Hillary vs Bernie or Islam vs the Infidels is often a sign of a delusional mind.

    Just sayin.

    Parent

    That's rich, coming from you, (1.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:34:07 AM EST
    given the nonstop excoriation and spittle flecked invective that you and your pals have devoted your last few months to projectile vomiting toward that scary old man from Vermont and his few remaining supporters.

    Parent
    IN that case (1.00 / 1) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:48:11 AM EST
    Allow me to clarify.

    I am not "good".   Not even fuc@ing close.  

    Bernie and his supporters are not evil.  Misguided, uninformed, ridiculous and possibly delusional.  Not evil.

    Parent

    Howdy, Bernie is over. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:04:57 AM EST
    It's over.

    Parent
    Seriously... (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:19:07 AM EST
    Hard to let go of a boogeyman I guess, even a dead and buried one.

    If Bernie decides to walk the Appalachian Trail, he better leave a body-double or party loyalists will be lost without a dog to kick.

    Parent

    If Bernie says he's walking (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:27:31 AM EST
    the Appalachian Trail, I'll presume he's in Argentina.

    Parent
    The man does deserve... (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:35:55 AM EST
    a fine grass-fed beef steak drowning in chimichurri after all he has accomplished.

    As long as he comes back to help feed President Clinton II radical leftist legislation from the Senate;)


    Parent

    There was another piece on income inequality (none / 0) (#66)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:45:45 AM EST
    last night on NPR Marketplace.

    There's always a piece on income inequality on NPR.

    Parent

    As long as (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:40:11 AM EST
    The trail doesn't end before he's ready it should all be good.

    Parent
    kdog: And, your boogeyman would be (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by christinep on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 06:49:18 PM EST
    ... let me guess ... the Clintons.  In all honesty, you do seem to be rather compromised by your own configuration of monsters when it comes to Hill & Bill.  But, you know that.  Boxing one's self in can be tough after awhile.  

    Parent
    I never claimed I was immune... (none / 0) (#140)
    by kdog on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 11:58:48 AM EST
    Everybody got a boogeyman...mine ain't so much Bill & Hil as those who cut them checks. The Clinton's are more like my boogeyman's henchpersons. Obama, Reid, Pelosi, & let's not forget Chuckie Schumer too.

    Parent
    Darn, kdog ... I wish (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by christinep on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 02:15:53 PM EST
    that you could get beyond what appears to be your blinders' noose of limited focus to look at the full range of issues facing everybody ... especially, the ramifications for the broader public --the full range of economic and social issues that can smack us on a daily basis --and the significance of a president's Supreme Court selections.  They matter...today, tomorrow, the next day--and, the thing is that the practical reality it our voting choice this November makes a real difference beyond ourselves.  We face that directly or back away from it.

    And, it is too bad that--looking at your check-cutting definition of "boogeyman," I have been and expect to always be within your definition.  Well ... it was nice, as they say ...Boo! from the boogeyman.

    Parent

    Odd that the boogeyman (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 02:21:11 PM EST
    didn't involve Bush or McConnell or Ryan or Boehner or Trump or ...etc etc

    Parent
    Very odd, indeed (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by christinep on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 02:39:12 PM EST


    Parent
    Thought that goes without saying... (none / 0) (#182)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 13, 2016 at 08:30:45 AM EST
    I was talking about Brand D boogeymen.

    Parent
    It's been over for months (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:09:43 AM EST
    You might want to tell Bernie.

    Parent
    If you want to show a genuine interest (none / 0) (#47)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:55:37 AM EST
    in discussion, wait for an answer when you've asked a question.

    If you don't, keep doing what you're doing.  Vanquish a straw man and proclaim your triumph.

    Please define "we" and "they".

    I've defined who I am and who "we" are with every post I've written, or tried to.  This isn't some freakin' game.

    As a glittering generality, it may be true that Democrats vs. Republicans doesn't rise to the level of good vs evil.  But in the case of Clinton vs. Trump, it does.

    Parent

    So you believe (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:04:43 AM EST
    Hillary and democrats are motivated by "love"?

    If you say so.

    Parent

    It's love alright.. (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:42:40 AM EST
    just very tough love.

    Like when the Dominicans burned people to save their souls..

    Probably because those people "whined" too much and talked too much with their hands..

    Parent

    I consider my self a democrat (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:52:35 AM EST
    I am not motivated by love.  I believe love is over rated.  Personally I am motivated by the desire to drive my enemies before me, crush them utterly and hear the sweet music of the wailing of their widows.

    Parent
    YOu know (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:05:01 PM EST
    Howdy somehow you and I seem to be on the same wave length with a lot of this stuff. Maybe it's the states we live in and what we see everyday. I don't know. However i can't imagine living in a political world where you can wait to reserve your vote until the white shining knight shows up at your doorstep to "save" you. Politics is a blood sport where you knee cap your opponent.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 05:21:31 PM EST
    I get two thumbs up, 3 if you count jondee "5", and a 1 from Dan.  Since I was joking I'm not sure which is more troubling.

    That said, I am all for stabbing them in their sleep.

    Parent

    Captain, my apologies. (none / 0) (#174)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jun 12, 2016 at 11:43:18 AM EST
    I read your comment and wondered what you meant in reference to me.  Looked up and saw that "1" ..have no idea how that happened. Can't imagine giving a low mark to anything you comment upon, as I seem to be of the same mind although you often express it better. I have corrected it to the "5" that was originally intended.  Can I sleep well tonight?

    Parent
    as far as expressing (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 12, 2016 at 11:50:28 AM EST
    back at ya.

    we both sleep untroubled.

    Parent

    I knew there was something I liked (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:17:45 PM EST
    about you.

    I couldn't put my finger on it until now.


    Parent

    No, there's no good vs. evil (none / 0) (#78)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:29:59 PM EST
    attitude in that vile mashup of Byron and Conan.

    Parent
    I liked it (none / 0) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:51:39 AM EST
    When you had a sense of humor.

    Parent
    Agreed Howdy. (none / 0) (#180)
    by fishcamp on Mon Jun 13, 2016 at 06:44:26 AM EST
    We already know love is just a second hand emotion...

    Parent
    fish comes strong (none / 0) (#192)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 14, 2016 at 02:06:31 PM EST
    with the Tina Turner reference

    Parent
    And btw (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:08:57 AM EST
    As I have said many times, I know many Trump supporters.  They may be misguided, uninformed or possibly delusional.  They are not evil.

    Believing they are and you are good is not one bit less nutty than the first interpretation.

    Parent

    As I said before (none / 0) (#42)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:31:45 AM EST
    a lot of this bitterness is like the cantankerous of old cats who just want to sit in a familiar warm spot in the corner and lick their butts and find all the energy and  exuberance and sudden change and new ideas going on around them nothing but irritating.

    They know what they know and there's nothing more to know and goddam the person who tries to tell them any different.

    I'm just worried about how it'll effect the election outcome if too many of these folks expire or lapse into irreversible dementia before November rolls around.

    Parent

    Are you talking about Bernie and the (5.00 / 6) (#87)
    by vml68 on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 02:13:58 PM EST
    Bernie bros here?

    They know what they know and there's nothing more to know and goddam the person who tries to tell them any different.

    Jondee, you have been following the posts here and you know that for the most part the Hillary supporters here don't have issues with Bernie's ideas. But, he has proven that once you get past the sloganeering and the stump speech, he does not have much to offer. No sane person, can say that he is anywhere near Hillary Clinton's equal when it comes to actually having a plan and being able to explain it (see NYDN interview as only one example).
    As for temperament, we already have one thin-skinned nominee (see Donald J. Trump) who is always calling foul when things don't go his way, we do not need another.

    You are no fool, so the only explanation I can think of for the nature of your comments is extreme CDS.

    Parent

    CDS.. (none / 0) (#141)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 12:35:43 PM EST
    I voted for Bill twice, but that doesn't count because unlike you I don't view him the way Tom Cruise views L Ron Hubbard.

    Ya gotta love that "CDS" though..It's so Russia circa 1937..if you don't swear unquestioning fealty to the Clinton's, the lunatic asylum is the best place for you.

    Parent

    Hillary Clinton and (5.00 / 3) (#147)
    by christinep on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 02:21:26 PM EST
    Bill Clinton are actually different people (just as I am different from my husband)...just a teensy reminder.

    Parent
    I am not going to argue with you, (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by vml68 on Mon Jun 13, 2016 at 02:35:52 PM EST
    with gems like these, it would be pointless.

    unlike you I don't view him the way Tom Cruise views L Ron Hubbard.

    if you don't swear unquestioning fealty to the Clinton's, the lunatic asylum is the best place for you.

    So, you've decided that you are going to blind yourself and stick with your narrative no matter what anyone else says to the contrary.
    I thought we only had one JimakaPPJ, now we have two!


    Parent

    Good comparison (none / 0) (#184)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 13, 2016 at 02:47:05 PM EST
    jondee and jim are the yin and yang of each other.  Both ridiculous in their views, yet neither can exist in this world (TL) without the other.

    Parent
    Ha. When are the new ideas coming? (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:24:49 PM EST
    That would be interesting.

    Parent
    Jeralyn, I Would Like to Know (none / 0) (#41)
    by RickyJim on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:31:28 AM EST
    how you reconcile your enthusiastic support for Hillary with her record of hawkishness, neoconism and interventionism, starting with her stint as first lady and continuing right through this campaign as documented by Doug Bandow here, as well as many other places.  Is it simply, "I don't like that aspect of her policies but consider the alternative etc."?

    Wait (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:36:41 AM EST
    you mean THAT Doug Bandow?

    Parent
    You nailed it... (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:41:26 AM EST
    speaking for me, the lion's share of enthusiastic support boils down to "you think she's bad, get a load of this guy!".  Same as every other presidential election in my lifetime.

    And breaking the glass ceiling, which (despite my concerns about the individual) will be totally f*ckin' awesome, and I will celebrate it for exactly one day like when Obama broke the last ceiling.  Then I'll be back to my regularly scheduled "surely we can do better than this sh*t".

    Parent

    Kdog (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:46:53 AM EST
    though you couldn't even be bothered to check a box for Bernie.

    Parent
    Not when it requires... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:01:03 PM EST
    checking a box stating I'm a Democrat.  I like Bernie, but not at that price!  And the re-register/un-re-register dance is, to quote the real king of rock-n-roll, "too much monkey business for me to be involved in".

    Parent
    Purity (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 12:04:07 PM EST
    trolls must protect there purity at all costs, lest they be cast out of their hermetically sealed paradise.

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    Hardly... (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 01:14:31 PM EST
    I pay taxes Brother, if there's a hell I'm going on that score alone.  All them bombs and corpses, all them prison cells. Forgive me lord, even if I know what I do...it's hard out here to know what is right sometimes.

    Henry David Thoreau...now there may have been a purity troll, with the prison record & hermitically sealed hermit cabin on the pond to prove it.  

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    Good luck with that (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 08:10:53 PM EST
    I tried it.  Nope.  Still got taxes.

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    A Thoreau comparison? (none / 0) (#148)
    by christinep on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 02:29:04 PM EST
    I loved the theory of Thoreau.  From what you often write, tho, you seem to get out & about a lot more than he did ... and, seem to enjoy the benefits of big city life a lot as well.

    When I was in school and visiting my about-to-be in-laws in Massachusetts, we all went to Walden Pond so that I could behold it.  Based on what I saw then, kdog, the tranquility must have gone elsewhere after the commercialization in the area. I still like the writing, tho.

    Parent

    Purity trolls.. (none / 0) (#126)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:24:07 AM EST
    How original.

    Over at the Cato Institute site they call them do-gooders.

    All these people who place doing the right thing ahead of portfolio decisions and being "emotionally validated" and "empowered" by superficial symbolic victories while the party incrementally moves backwards.

    Parent

    So, jondee, dispensing with (none / 0) (#149)
    by christinep on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 02:33:42 PM EST
    demotions & symbols, etc., do you have thoughts on how our nation of 300+ million people can best move forward.  What steps should we take? How do we get enough people to agree with the steps proposed? How long should that take?

    Those would be my opening questions ... not for fun, nor for sarcasm, but for real.  

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 01:22:42 PM EST
    you are more or less proving politicians right that voters like you are not worth the time and effort.

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    Yes... (none / 0) (#84)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 01:27:45 PM EST
    voters that don't respond to threats and fear tactics are too much effort for Democrats and Republicans to court.  They know one sales pitch..."vote for Brand D/R or suffer Brand R/D".

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 01:51:26 PM EST
    I'm talking about Bernie and you not voting for him in the primaries.

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    Didn't sound like it... (none / 0) (#90)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 02:35:25 PM EST
    you said politicians...but I probably should have known you were talkin' 'bout the boogeyman.  The SDS here rivals the CDS elsewhere.

    We're all deranged in our own way.

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    How the h did you become (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 07:44:24 PM EST
    "The Other" on TL?

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    Ya forgot '08 already? (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by kdog on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 08:25:46 AM EST
    I was accused of being a Republican back then, with my carping of how lackluster both Obama and Clinton were. At least this silly season I'm a revolutionary leftist, a much more savory faux label.

    5 more months and silly season is over, thank goodness.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 07:55:50 PM EST
    isn't Bernie a politician?

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    That was a low blow (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 08:09:38 PM EST


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    lol; that's a healthy attitude, kdog. (none / 0) (#68)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 11:49:48 AM EST


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    It is glaringly apparent (none / 0) (#86)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 02:10:42 PM EST
    why some Republicans cannot abide Trump--a con man and a fraud.  He should be a better Christian, such as David Perdue (R.GA) who gave a prayer this morning at Ralph Reed's Faith and Freedom Summit, from Psalm 109.8.  With an irreverent chuckle, Senator Perdue asked that President Obama's days be few, may his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.....    

    Wonder how the Republicans ever got Trump, as for Perdue, he needs to update his material, from the old testament to the new.

    Did you see this story in the NYT (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 04:16:47 PM EST
    spelling out his casino dealings? It's worse than I could have ever imagined.

    This guy ...brought to you by the party that spent $25 million tax dollars investigating the Clinton's Whitewater deal.  We could spend $200 million investigating Trump and never get to the bottom of it.  Can't even comprehend the hypocrisy.

    Parent

    Amazing (none / 0) (#102)
    by Nemi on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 06:42:26 PM EST
    interactive charts of estimated turnout and support of various voter demographics in the general election 2012.

    Explanation at the link to 'Article', which ends

    Notes: The figures on this page are imperfect estimates. (Because the ballot is secret, the truth is unknowable.)

    I like that: The truth is unknowable. :)

    Charles Pierce (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 08:51:51 PM EST
    Today

    at this point we only need 2 words from Bernie Sanders.  I lost


    Bernie Sanders left his meeting with President Obama Thursday, his refusal to exit the Democratic race garnering him a great deal of attention, both positive and negative. That attention is, more and more, the only justification conceivable for the continuation of his campaign.

    It was amazing when he didn't quit two months ago, after it became nearly impossible that he could win the nomination. It was astonishing when he didn't quit on Tuesday, when it became actually impossible for him to win. And Thursday, after the President and the leader of his party asked him to throw his support to Hillary, it has become borderline insane that he won't call it. Suddenly, a new and freshly horrifying question has appeared on the horizon of this election:

    What if the Democratic Party becomes as batsh!t as the Republican party?
    Leader of his party? Not really. (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 10, 2016 at 10:17:16 PM EST


    Parent
    Wait (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:50:05 AM EST
    You don't thnk the twice elected president is the leader of his party?

    Parent
    Yes I sure do (none / 0) (#155)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 04:17:54 PM EST
    I just don't think Bernie really considers himself part of that party.

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    Ah! (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 04:24:40 PM EST
    My bad.  Yes, we agree completely.   Who should be the leader of Bernies party?  Bernie I guess.

    Parent
    Kind of like the leader of the (none / 0) (#169)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 09:28:44 PM EST
    "Connecticut for Lieberman" party

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    You know (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 06:42:18 AM EST
    I'm not sure he can say those two words. He sure hasn't said them every time he's lost a primary.

    Parent
    Posted that to make the point (none / 0) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 04:26:13 PM EST
    That even Bernie supporters have had it with Bernie.  

    Parent
    OTOH, (none / 0) (#115)
    by FreakyBeaky on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 04:24:54 AM EST
    Maybe not

    President Barack Obama handed the political baton to Hillary Clinton today, with an endorsement that was telegraphed before the 2016 presidential campaign even began. In a few weeks, at the Democratic convention in Philadelphia, he will symbolically hand over leadership of the party, as well.

    This transition is structured, anticipated, consistent, orderly and boring. Which is one way of saying that the Democratic Party is a coherent, well-functioning political institution that bears little resemblance to the cascading disasters that define the Republican Party and yielded Donald Trump as its likely presidential nominee.



    Parent
    Good point (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 06:16:52 AM EST
    But to some passing the baton in an orderly fashion sounds suspiciously like 'annointing'.

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    Please stop (5.00 / 6) (#136)
    by smott on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 10:27:22 AM EST
    With the "anointing" bs.  It's the same as coronation and all the other demeaning references to Clinton winning, by votes by delegates by every measure fair and square.

    It's grossly insulting because it implies that HRC did not have to work for her position.
    There's no one who works harder or has put up with more attacks.
    Nobody earned it more. It's absolutely a well deserved accomplishment .

    You want to see entitlement, try looking at Sanders.

    Parent

    I know she did work for it and I'm with her (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 11, 2016 at 04:12:09 PM EST
    But I can see where the annointing stories get started if stories like the above were going around.

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    Bill Maher: Socialism vs "Santa-ism" (none / 0) (#176)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jun 12, 2016 at 02:19:14 PM EST
    "And, look, no one is arguing that millennials haven't gotten a rotten deal in this economy but they've also gotten used to getting shit for free," he explained.

    "If you're a millennial you may never have known the concept of paying for things that all of us used to pay for," Maher said Friday. "I'm a baby boomer; I think the natural order of things is to pay for music that I like."

    "To do less than that doesn't make you a revolutionary, it makes you a person who goes to the bathroom when the check comes," he said.

    David Brooks:

    I still sense people will be sick of Donald Trump and they will go for her. At least she will be competent and she will be normal.

    Trump is a flawed messenger, but if Clinton could grab some column A from the left column and some unpredictable things from the right column that could appeal like to the family we just saw in Kai's piece, suddenly, that's a real message.

    But, as I say, a lot of this is characterological. We just haven't seen imagination from her over the course of her political campaign. We have seen determinedness, industriousness, but we haven't seen the unexpected.
    - Neal Gabler @ Bill Moyers dotcom: (none / 0) (#177)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jun 12, 2016 at 04:55:10 PM EST
    Payback or not, Sanders and his supporters are justified in saying the mainstream media have not been entirely fair to him. But that isn't because Sanders was anti-establishment or because he has attacked the media's monopolistic practices or because he claimed to be leading a revolution or even because he was impatient with reporters who asked idiotic questions -- though he had done all of those things.

    Sanders was the victim of something else: the script.
    Good grief. (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 12, 2016 at 05:00:44 PM EST
    And the media was so nice to Hillary--not. It seemed to me that they were fluffing Bernie all over the place. The only time he got any tough questions was the NYDN interview and he completely blew it.

    The media in this country is just simply awful. I'm not going to defend them but to say Bernie was a victim of it really defies reason.

    Parent

    Pffft (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 12, 2016 at 06:28:21 PM EST
    "Did the press take down Bernie Sanders"

    Um, no.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#181)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 13, 2016 at 08:06:00 AM EST
    Voters took down Bernie Sanders.

    Sonce no one had more negative media attention than Hillary Clinton, it appears that the author is in the denial stage of grief, or delusional.

    Parent

    It seems Hillary has adopted the (none / 0) (#185)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 14, 2016 at 06:54:12 AM EST
    'don't say the terrorist's name' approach to Trump. I like it.

    On the other hand (none / 0) (#186)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 14, 2016 at 08:13:29 AM EST
    Trump mentioned her 19 times in a speech yesterday (and only uttered 'terror', 'terrorism', or 'terrorist' just five times).

    Parent
    Look on the bright side (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 14, 2016 at 08:23:47 AM EST
    At least he wasn't accusing her of being complicit in the murder of 49 people.  Like he did the president.  Yet.

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    The GOP (none / 0) (#188)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 14, 2016 at 09:33:58 AM EST
    has become some weird sort of stalkerazzi when it comes to Hillary. In one of their debates they basically talked about her the entire time.

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    That obsession started in 1992 (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 14, 2016 at 09:41:15 AM EST
    I guess they were prescient back then. Knew who the Dem candidate would be the year the GOP destroyed itself.

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    Prediction (none / 0) (#190)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 14, 2016 at 10:11:16 AM EST
    You are going to start seeing some UNendorsements.  Maybe not many.  At first.  I think Graham was maybe the first?   I've said before Morning Joe is a good republican barometer.  They are beginning to understand moving into the final stage of grief, acceptance, is not the way to go.  IMO.

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    I don't think Graham ever endorsed at all, did he? (none / 0) (#191)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 14, 2016 at 11:20:57 AM EST
    Doesn't matter about him, overall I agree with you. I don't think this thing is over.

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    He did (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 14, 2016 at 04:04:31 PM EST
    after Ted Cruz dropped out. I mean he sounded positively dreadful while endorsing him. It was like well, I guess I have to vote for Trump because he's the nominee and he's not Hillary. I'm sure he was looking for any way to get out of endorsing him and of course Donald delivered. LOL.

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    SHOCKER (none / 0) (#194)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 14, 2016 at 07:56:42 PM EST
    Hillary wins DC

    who could have predicted that? (none / 0) (#195)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 15, 2016 at 06:50:08 AM EST
    Oh yeah...EVERYONE.

    Parent
    Obama Endorses Hillary, Sanders Marches to His Own Drum | 195 comments (195 topical)

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