Sunday Open Thread: The Shame of America

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 11:50:09 AM EST
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I have had nothing to say about Donald Trump or his Administration the past few days. He's become a boring distraction, and an non-entertaining one at that.

In the long run, Trump won't make a bit of difference in the world, unless he manages to get us all blown up with his bloviating and incompetence.

It is beyond disappointing that each of his trips to his hotel in Palm Beach cost the U.S. $3 million in security, and beyond selfish that security costs for his wife and son who can't be inconvenienced to change schools in the middle of the year cost taxpayers $1 million a day. The two reactions the man and his family provoke: wanting to shower or retch. [More...]

Trump from his first book.

"I play to people's fantasies...People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration – and a very effective form of promotion."

America should be so ashamed this man has a chair, let alone a desk, in the oval office.

Feel free to discuss him if you want, just skip the potentially libelous name-calling.

Far more worth my reading time this week:

Mexico:: The prison escape of five Sinaloa cartel guys from a state prison in Culiacan. Not surprisingly, the prison security chief (who is now missing) and 10 guards have have been dismissed.

DOJ won't be pleased. It has been trying to extradite two of those who escaped to face indictments in San Diego (Rafael Guadalupe Félix Nuñez, "Changuito Anthrax", and Alfonso Limón Sánchez). Another escapee is the son of the probably (but not confirmed) deceased co-founder of the organization, Juan Jose Esparragoza Moreno, "El Azul." The son, Juan Jose Esparragoza-Monzon, had no charges in Mexico-- he was arrested in January and detained on a U.S. request for extradition. The other escapees are Jesus Peña González, "El 20", former security chief for Sinaloa co-leader Ismael Zambada-Garcia, who was arrested days after El Chapo's first arrest in 2014, and Francisco Javier Zazueta Rosales, "Pancho Chimal" whose last job was reportedly head of security for El Chapo's son Ivan Archivaldo Guzman-Salazar. Mexican authorities believe Chimal led the ambush on a military convoy in Culiacan last September that killed five members of the military. (Previously authorities blamed the ambush on El Chapo's sons, and then on Alfredo Beltran-Leyva's son, Mochomito, who had been fighting with another brother of El Chapo named Guano, until Mochomito's arrest in December.

ISIS: In other news, Long War Journal reports that ISIS released a 30 minute propaganda video showing it's skill at transforming various makes and models of ordinary cars into vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices (VBIEDs). No link to the video, but LWJ has big photos. Another part of the video shows how ISIS is using computer software to find targets for drone strikes in Mosul.

Again, this is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< R.I.P. Chuck Berry | Congress Should Reject Trump's $33 Billion Supplemental Budget Request >

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Sunday Open Thread: The Shame of America | 87 comments (87 topical)

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Trump (5.00 / 2) (#1)
by Ga6thDem on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 12:49:52 PM EST

is basically a carnival barker. When you look at him that way a lot of what he does makes sense. He's a master at fleecing the rubes which seems to be his sole talent.

Military Tracy: The other day when you were talking about cucumber sandwiches I thought hmm, that sounds really good. So I went on the internet and found what looked like a good recipe for Benedictine spread. So I seeded and coarsely chopped the cucumbers and then put them in the food processor to get them finely chopped. The next part of the recipe was to put the ground up cucumbers in a cheesecloth and squeeze all the water out of them. Well, I did not have a cheese cloth and these paper towels I have claim they are as strong as a cloth so I went with using them. One squeeze and ground up cucumber blew up all over the kitchen. I don't know what I was thinking.

: You were thinking you wanted a delicious sandwich (none / 0) (#10)
by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 02:57:59 PM EST

Darn!
I did the thinly shaved cukes salt sweated, drained, with butter and pepper. It was especially nice with red wine :)

: Trump is a standard (none / 0) (#14)
by MKS on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 03:49:34 PM EST

issue real estate developer. There are lot of those guys, and many who are better and brighter than Trump.
Just uses b.s. all the time.

The folks here in Aspen (5.00 / 6) (#3)
by fishcamp on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 01:17:10 PM EST

are totally pi**ed of that any of the Trump's are coming here. I've been through several presidential visits in the past, and it totally freezes the town. Once I was stuck at the grocery during a Clinton visit, but they had a liquor store, so I bought a case of beer, and we had a tailgate party waiting out the limo passby.

This little mining town is just too cutesy and expensive for me. I'll be very glad to get back to the shabby Florida keys where my fish live. BTW the film presentation went very well even though I was terrified on stage at halftime. It was supposed to be a q and a, but turned into story telling. The other guys went into the theory of film, but I just told humorous stories about making ski films in Europe during the 60's and 70's. Lots of old friends.

: I'm so glad you are having a great time (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 02:54:51 PM EST

And thank you for letting me know how p*ssed the Trumps have made Aspen. I feel less alone :)

You say comma, I say coma. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by KeysDan on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 02:22:52 PM EST

What's the difference? A lot. And, how they are used, too. In 2014, truck drivers sued Oakhurst Dairy, seeking four years worth of overtime pay that had been denied.

Maine law requires workers to be paid 1.5 times their normal rate for each hour worked after 40 hours. But, the law carves out some exceptions: The overtime rules DO NOT apply to: the canning, processing, preserving, freezing, drying, marketing, storing, packing for shipment or distribution of: (1) agricultural products; (2) meat and fish products; and (3) perishable foods.

The question: Does the law intend to exempt packing for the shipment or distribution of them? Delivery drivers distribute perishable food, but they don't pack the boxes themselves. Whether the drivers were subject to a law that denied them thousands of dollars a year in overtime depended entirely on how the sentence was read.

If there is a comma after "shipment," it might have been clear that the law exempted the distribution of perishable foods. But, the US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, sided with the drivers, saying the absence of a comma produced enough uncertainty to rule in their favor, and reversed a lower court decision.

It is the lack of the "Oxford" or serial comma that was the culprit. In a list of three or more items, e.g., beans, potatoes and rice, some would put a comma after potatoes, and some would leave it out. The Court questioned, discussed, and decided in favor of the drivers. And, the use of the comma.

This is where legislative intent or ... (none / 0) (#15)
by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 04:39:00 PM EST

... in this particular case, its lack thereof, plays a crucial role in the court's deliberations.

If the Maine legislators who initially drafted and enacted this particular statute failed to make clear their expressed intent for the measure in either the committee reports or their own floor comments for their respect chamber's Journal, they effectively left it up to the judges to decide for themselves what the law actually means.

And since this law was likely first drafted by legislators at the behest of representatives of Maine's agricultural, dairy and fishing industries, any "blame" for what transpired in the courtroom properly resides with all of them, and not with the judges who ruled in favor of the truckers.

I can pretty much guarantee that a new bill to amend the law accordingly, by inserting the required punctuation will be introduced in the state's next legislative session.

Aloha.


Well, correct construction (none / 0) (#18)
by Towanda on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 06:50:05 PM EST

of that clause, if the Oxford comma were intended, would have called for usage of "or" before packing . . . but don't tell the court, as I am happy with the ruling, for the workers' sake.

(When serving as president of our faculty senate, I also served as grammarian, it seems, as I saved us from similar problematic constructions, many a time, that would have allowed administrative latitude to do the opposite of what we intended.)


Mary Norris has a typically delightful (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Peter G on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 09:57:51 PM EST

comment on the case in The New Yorker.


Peter, any opimion of Toobin's (none / 0) (#51)
by oculus on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 12:59:38 AM EST

(New Yorker, I think) article re federal judges considering campaign rhetoric re Trump travel bans?


I usually think Toobin is pretty smart (none / 0) (#62)
by Peter G on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 03:28:19 PM EST

and well-informed -- particularly recognizing that he is not a law school graduate -- but I was not impressed with that particular article. Missed a lot of key points, it seems to me.


What key points? (none / 0) (#67)
by oculus on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 10:08:12 PM EST

(I did not realize Toobin is not a lawuyer.).


Me neither (none / 0) (#68)
by NYShooter on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 10:44:13 PM EST

CNN

Previously, Toobin served as an assistant U.S. attorney in Brooklyn. He also served as an associate counsel in the Office of Independent Counsel Lawrence E. Walsh, an experience that provided the basis for his first book, Opening Arguments: A Young Lawyer's First Case--United States v. Oliver North.

Toobin earned his bachelor's degree from Harvard College and graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law School where he was an editor of the Harvard Law Review.

And Wikipedia

Toobin was educated at Columbia Grammar School, which later changed its name to Columbia Grammar and Preparatory School, a private preparatory school in New York City. Toobin graduated from Harvard College. At Harvard, he covered sports for The Harvard Crimson,[5] where his column was titled "Inner Toobin." In 1982, he graduated magna cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts degree in classics, and earned a Truman Scholarship. In 1986, he graduated from Harvard Law School magna cum laude with a J.D.; he had been an editor of the Harvard Law Review.[6]


"Inner Toobin"! (none / 0) (#72)
by oculus on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 08:28:28 AM EST

So clearly I was wrong about what I thought (none / 0) (#73)
by Peter G on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 09:04:30 AM EST

I "knew" about his credentials! I should have checked before hitting "post."


That happens to the worst of us too, (none / 0) (#81)
by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 03:27:35 PM EST

Peter G, but more often.

That said, you, repack, oculus, and fishcamp remain the most securely grounded of all the posters here. There's never any b/s from you four. No puffery. No self inflation or faux expertise. What you write is grounded and it shows.

That's the highest compliment I've got.


Wow. I'm humbled. (5.00 / 2) (#88)
by oculus on Thu Mar 23, 2017 at 09:51:01 PM EST

Hey Mr Natural (none / 0) (#85)
by NYShooter on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 06:01:24 PM EST

3 out of 4,

not bad.


I'm losing my touch, shooter. (none / 0) (#87)
by Mr Natural on Thu Mar 23, 2017 at 09:50:16 PM EST

In my prime I would have said they were four of the five, leaving the identitifying of the fifth to everyone's ego. I might have thrown you into the mix despite the unpopularity, at times, of your opinions. Popularity sucks. I could have thrown kdog and jondee in because they have kept their sense of humor, a quality that got rare fast during the last election campaign. And yes, I still miss the eviscerations delivered by Anne. (Was that her name?)


: I'm still Flakey Foont (none / 0) (#89)
by jondee on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:27:49 AM EST

to your Mr Natural.
Devil Girl and I ended up gettin' hitched. Didn't see that comin', didja?

With the Oxford comma: (none / 0) (#42)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 04:22:46 PM EST

We invited the strippers, JFK, and Stalin.

Without the Oxford comma:

We invited the the strippers, JFK and Stalin.


Eats, shoots and leaves. (5.00 / 2) (#50)
by oculus on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 12:57:29 AM EST

Nice. Short and sweet. (none / 0) (#55)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 10:53:34 AM EST

Terse. (none / 0) (#82)
by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 03:28:30 PM EST

: Cryptic :) (5.00 / 2) (#86)
by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 11:54:01 PM EST

The Oregon Ducks are in the Sweet 16, (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by caseyOR on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 12:41:18 AM EST

and I am thrilled. They played a tough game against Rhode Island tonight to get there. Go, Ducks!

And I am delighted that Duke is out having lost to South Carolina.

The ACC received nine tourney bids. (none / 0) (#28)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 12:58:47 AM EST

Only one of those teams, South No. 1 seed North Carolina, made it out of this weekend alive. Even then, the Tar Heels blew a 17-pt. lead against Arkansas today and found themselves down five with only three minutes to go in the game. They survived, barely. But if their game tanks again for a long stretch against Butler, UCLA or Kentucky, they won't make it to Phoenix.


Michigan made it also. Go Blue. (none / 0) (#52)
by oculus on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 01:02:14 AM EST

: And Maize? (5.00 / 1) (#77)
by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 01:51:11 PM EST

Jimmy Breslin passed away... (none / 0) (#2)
by desertswine on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 01:02:57 PM EST

"At 5:00 at night at the New York Daily News you couldn't see from on end of the city room to the other because of the smoke. Tremendous scene. Looked like an old fight club. And the noise of the typewriters was loud, like subway trains running through. And out of all this noise and smoke came nervous energy. Words in a newspaper are made of nervous energy."

Breslin was old school. He began his career as a copy boy working his way up to a hard -bitten reporter.

: Director Spike Lee also cast Jimmy Breslin ... (none / 0) (#8)
by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 02:27:54 PM EST

... as himself to both introduce and close Lee's 1999 film "Summer of Sam." Long known for making movies with a distinctly African-American perspective, Lee had departed from his M.O. this time to instead weave a tale of Italian-American residents who inhabit one particular block in a fictional Bronx neighborhood.
"Summer of Sam" is Lee's only film with a predominantly white cast, and its story takes place during the sweltering summer of 1977, when serial killer David Berkowitz, aka Son of Sam and the .44 Caliber Killer, was then terrorizing New York City -- which is where Breslin comes in.
22 years earlier, while working for the New York Daily News during that long hot summer, Breslin had received two rather chilling handwritten letters from Berkowitz, who by that time had already killed five people. In them, he openly taunted NYPD: "P.S.: JB, Please inform all the detectives working the case that I wish them the best of luck." It was the scoop of the year.
At the urging of city authorities, the Daily News allowed Breslin to publish one of Berkowitz's letters, slong with the columnist's personal appeal to him to surrender, in the ultimately futile hope that the killer could somehow be induced to reply with a third handwritten note and perhaps leave his fingerprints on it.
Instead, "Son of Sam" struck twice more before he was finally captured. Ironically, he tripped himself up as a result of his own parking violation at one of his crime scenes, which led detectives to quickly track him down through the resultant citation he received.
Aloha to an often cynical yet highly observant chronicler of our times.

: I grew up on Jimmy Breslin... (none / 0) (#34)
by kdog on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 11:30:25 AM EST

in The Daily News...that man was NYC personified, through and through. And one helluva newspaper man, they don't make them like Jimmy no more.

movie on netflix (none / 0) (#4)
by linea on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 01:54:43 PM EST

The Great Gilly Hopkins
highly recommended

Here's a short but interesting interview with (none / 0) (#5)
by desertswine on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 02:01:53 PM EST

Yuval Noah Harari, for those who have a mind to.

I would like to defend (none / 0) (#11)
by KeysDan on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 02:59:17 PM EST

Trump and his frequent trips to Mar-a-Lago. As a 70-year old man, he can use relaxation time so as to guard against "Low Energy" such as he saw in JEB! and as is reported for Secretary Rex Tillerson.

Besides, he does get a lot of work done there, for example, multi-tasking with the Prime Minister of Japan and orchestrating strikes on Yemen all while dining al fresco.

Trump needs to re-charge his batteries after a tough week of cutting benefits for the poor and cutting taxes for the rich. The Club's environs and membership dues by his high rollers surely improve his mental state, which is a good thing.

The costs of these golfing trips may be on a par with other presidents' excursions, such as George W. Bush's wood chopping, brush-clearing adventures, but they are still substantial. But, they are costs well worth it. Every moment he is on the links, there is potentially less opportunity to do damage to the country.

I believe Budget Director Mick Mulvaney could effectively use these arguments for that "single mother in Detroit" or "West Virginia coal miner," as rationale for needing to cut food stamps, meals on wheels, and, of course, Sesame Street.

Doubt it (none / 0) (#13)
by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 03:03:43 PM EST

We once protected 4 Obama's that did most evetything together. Now we protect 30 emotionally and psychologically enmeshed Trumps all over the place on all given days.

Zorba reminded me that adult children of Presidents often rescind secret service use. The Trumps abuse everything they can. They act as if they are all an extension of the Presidency.

The taxpayers are paying for Trump (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by caseyOR on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 05:24:49 PM EST

And Melanie and Barron, as we should. But that is not enough for the Trumps. We are not only paying for the Secret Service to protect Trump's adult children, we are also protecting their spouses and Trump's grandchildren.

I believe Trump is the only president whose adult children and their families have been given Secret Service protection. How many on the budget chopping block federal programs could we fund if the Trumps were a little less greedy?


the comments you are replying to (none / 0) (#16)
by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 04:49:46 PM EST

were deleted. Do not post potentially libelous comments, particularly about Trump's son. And don't repeat false stories here.


As a general rule, one should strive to avoid ... (none / 0) (#20)
by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 07:06:21 PM EST

... offering any negative commentary about the minor children of politicians and celebrities, particularly if or when such caustic remarks are otherwise motivated primarily by one's own personal animus toward their parent(s).

Trump, his current wife Melania, his three 30-something children by first wife Ivana, and his 23-year-old daughter by second wife Marla Maples are all fair game, given their roles in the Trump campaign and their garish attempts to capitalize personally on the Trump presidency with related family businesses and ventures.

11-year-old Barron Trump is not. Kids don't get to pick their moms and dads, and they should not be ridiculed, berated or abused either aloud or in print because of who their parents so happen to be. And unless parents choose to publicly disclose the nature of their child's illness or disability, if any, it's otherwise and absolutely none of our business.

then please stop referring to (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 12:26:42 AM EST

it, even as "if any."


: Sorry. (none / 0) (#27)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 12:48:11 AM EST

That should've been in a separate paragraph, because I was speaking about anyone's minor child, generally.
My point is that unless or until parents themselves choose to share details about their children publicly, regardless of subject, we ought to respect a family's right to privacy. Gossip is harmful.
Aloha.

No adult children of presidents (none / 0) (#19)
by Towanda on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 07:00:45 PM EST

have had Secret Service protection before this, I read that the Secret Service said, when one of the Trump son's overseas business trips cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And, of course, no presidential spouse refused to move to DC, requiring millions more in taxpayer costs -- for three White Houses, in New York and Florida, as well as Washington.

And now that we have paid for a helipad and more in Florida, we will have to pay yet more for the fourth White House, as the lout likes to do his weekends in spring and summer at his golf course there.

Note: his golf course. No president has cashed in at his private properties to make millions off taxpayers.


Yeah, I don't remember.. (none / 0) (#22)
by desertswine on Sun Mar 19, 2017 at 11:25:51 PM EST

that Billy Carter had Secret Service protection. Or was it Billy Clinton(?). I can't remember. one of them. Or maybe both. I don't know.


None of George H.W. Bush's (none / 0) (#23)
by caseyOR on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 12:12:49 AM EST

adult children had Secret Service protection, nor did his grandchildren.

Only the Trumps have chosen to fleece the Americanpeople in this way. And it is not like they cannot afford to pay their own security people. The family has billions, right?


You been chugging your stash of Billy Beer again? (none / 0) (#25)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 12:34:12 AM EST

;-D Bill Clinton's brother is Roger Clinton. And while I'm not sure if he had full-time protection while his brother was president, Roger did manage to earn the Secret Service codename "Headache" due to his well-publicized personal behavior. The guy does like to party. He's had two DUI convictions since his brother left office, most recently in June 2016.


: We've been celebrating St. Paddy's Day... (none / 0) (#29)
by desertswine on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 01:00:42 AM EST

today. We were unable to give it its due on the 17th. But we're making up for lost time.

Great Expectations (none / 0) (#30)
by TrevorBolder on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 06:10:30 AM EST

http://tinyurl.com/ksk52zz

Are being tamped down

Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia Collusion

Glenn Greenwald

The principal problem for Democrats is that so many media figures and online charlatans are personally benefiting from feeding the base increasingly unhinged, fact-free conspiracies -- just as right-wing media polemicists did after both Bill Clinton and Obama were elected -- that there are now millions of partisan soldiers absolutely convinced of a Trump/Russia conspiracy for which, at least as of now, there is no evidence. And they are all waiting for the day, which they regard as inevitable and imminent, when this theory will be proven and Trump will be removed.

Morell and Clapper both say, there is no there there

Media figures have similarly begun trying to tamp down expectations. Ben Smith, the editor-in-chief of BuzzFeed, which published the Steele dossier, published an article yesterday warning that the Democratic base's expectation of a smoking gun "is so strong that Twitter and cable news are full of the theories of what my colleague Charlie Warzel calls the Blue Detectives -- the left's new version of Glenn Beck, digital blackboards full of lines and arrows." Smith added: "It is also a simple fact that while news of Russian actions on Trump's behalf is clear, hard details of coordination between his aides and Putin's haven't emerged."

For so long, Democrats demonized and smeared anyone trying to inject basic reason, rationality, and skepticism into this Trump/Russia discourse by labeling them all Kremlin agents and Putin lovers.

Nah, that would never happen

Oh, good lord (5.00 / 2) (#31)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 07:09:48 AM EST

You're quoting Greenwald who has been nothing short of an apologist for Putin these days? He's already been wrong saying there was nothing there and now he's moved the goalposts to there is something there but it's not much. Whatever.

Schiff says there is circumstantial evidence of collusion right now but real evidence of an attempt to cover up the collusion.


Greenwald is a waste of time on this subject. (none / 0) (#45)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 05:13:49 PM EST

His own ties with WikiLeaks preclude me from taking him at all seriously here. If he desires otherwise, he first ought to come clean himself regarding that relationship, which represents a potential conflict of interest that compromises the integrity of his work product.


: Hear hear Donald (none / 0) (#48)
by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 07:00:22 PM EST

Comey (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by FlJoe on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 10:00:06 AM EST

confirms that Trump's links to the Russian hacking are currently under investigation.

"I have been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission, is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. And that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia's efforts,"

: Sure hope that no one (5.00 / 2) (#47)
by KeysDan on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 05:41:44 PM EST

in the Trump campaign or administration is accused of being such bad hombres. Counterintelligence, spies. Trump has no truck with these types. There will we swift action: Trump has said that Snowden should be executed, Sgt Bowe Bergdahl should be executed, and he was "troubled" just by the commutation of sentence for Chelsea Manning. And, we know that tough guy, Trump, does not mess around. Trials and other such niceties be dammed.

: Joaquin Castro, Joaquin Castro (none / 0) (#40)
by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 03:10:36 PM EST

If you want it laid out concisely check that young man's questioning. Comey was the least talkative of anyone questioning him. He was up against the wall frozen. Not one softball he could catch.

FBI Director James Comey thinks otherwise. (5.00 / 2) (#35)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 02:28:33 PM EST

He's confirmed this morning that there is indeed a federal investigation into the Trump entourage's ties to Russia.

And given his own close connections to Wikileaks, Glenn Greenwald's credibility on this issue is suspect. He'd be doing his company a big favor by recusing himself, and assigning somebody else at The Intercept to cover the story.

: Comey confirmed (none / 0) (#44)
by KeysDan on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 04:54:00 PM EST

that there is a federal investigation.... Lock them up, Lock them up!

Is that all you have? (5.00 / 2) (#36)
by Repack Rider on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 02:33:45 PM EST

By including this quote:

...you invalidate your post. It has never been the liberals who accused everyone who listened to Pete Seeger's music or contributed to UNICEF of being a communist. The "Red Scare" the "WMD Scare," "the Obama wants your guns scare" and all such bogus fear tactics have all originated with conservatives.

I noted that Rep. Schiff opened his remarks by reading everything we know about the case that is in the public record, and it is damning for the Tru*mp people.


My Guess Is (none / 0) (#32)
by RickyJim on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 08:17:35 AM EST

that the Trump campaign did not give the Russians any material to be delivered to Wikileaks. I wouldn't be surprised if they were tipped off ahead of time about what was to come. Probably that wouldn't put them in legal danger.

If there is a real problem for Trump, it would be with his business dealing with Russia over the years.


It's not necessarily the act itself that's ... (none / 0) (#37)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 02:41:26 PM EST

... brought renewed public attention to the Trump-Russia connection, but the repeated and blatant attempts by administration officials and Trump himself to mislead everyone regarding the nature and extent of the campaign's communications with the Kremlin and the FSB. If there's truly nothing to any of this, then why did both Trump's National Security Advisor and his U.S. Attorney General lie about it? (And yes, they lied.)


I Don't Know (none / 0) (#59)
by RickyJim on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 01:41:33 PM EST

To say something that makes sense on the matter of the Flynn and Sessions talking with the Russian ambassador, I would have to know the following:

How many and how often did they meet (talk) with ambassadors of other countries during the period in question?
What was actually discussed during the meetings with ambassadors, Russian and otherwise.

: What part of "they lied" ... (none / 0) (#70)
by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 05:09:25 AM EST

... do you not understand? Why are you moving the goalposts to "make sense" of what Flynn and Sessions did, when it's perfectly clear what they did?
They both claimed to have not met with the Russian ambassador, period. Well, in both instances that turned out to not be true. And in Sessions' case, he further volunteered his misleading statement while under oath.
Whether or not either of them also met with other ambassadors in completely immaterial, given that the only ambassador of interest here is the one from Moscow.
Don't start qualifying their statements ex post facto in order to grant them a mulligan. You do that, and you'll only end up confusing yourself.
Aloha.

I guess you missed the actual hearing (none / 0) (#39)
by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 03:08:16 PM EST

: If you look (5.00 / 2) (#41)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 03:29:36 PM EST

at the time stamp you'll notice that Trevor posted that before the hearing was held. You know you can always count on him to be shopping Trump apologia attempting to preempt anything that happens. LOL.

I have taken in the wiretap hearing in pieces (none / 0) (#38)
by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 03:07:37 PM EST

Joaquin Castro!!!! Don't miss his questioning. That is all.

911 dispatcher suspended for 8 days (none / 0) (#43)
by McBain on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 04:24:28 PM EST

for not disclosing important info right before the Tamir Rice shooting.

The city's internal disciplinary charges accused Hollinger of failing to tell the dispatcher who sent the officers to the rec center that the man who called 911 about "a guy" pointing a gun at people also said it could be a juvenile and the gun might be a "fake."

Not sure I understand (none / 0) (#46)
by Repack Rider on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 05:35:27 PM EST

Does that make it okay to shoot a kid?


no. it makes it sad (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by linea on Mon Mar 20, 2017 at 08:51:30 PM EST

and a horrible tragedy that a boy was killed.

but it also shows that the police were reacting to specific information rather than being racists who eagerly and maliciously gun-down african american children as some here seem to assert.

united states supreme court - graham v. connor

The "reasonableness" of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.

Reacting to info, i.e. their eyes were faulty (none / 0) (#53)
by vicndabx on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 09:23:57 AM EST

It is extremely hard to tell most 12-14 year old kids from an adult, especially when you roll right up on them.

Or maybe, their preset bias kicked in and their bodies responded accordingly.


Tamir Rice was a very big kid (none / 0) (#54)
by McBain on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 10:25:48 AM EST

The main problem was the gun. The cops had no way of knowing it was a toy. Even if the dispatcher had told them about the "probably fake" description, they wouldn't have known that for sure.


Now that you explain that the sky is green... (5.00 / 1) (#57)
by Repack Rider on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 12:19:44 PM EST

Tamir Rice was a very big kid. The main problem was the gun. The cops had no way of knowing it was a toy.

Okay, it was the kid's fault for growing too fast. Not sure what Tamir could have done about that. Do you have a solution to the problem of a kid looking like an adult? Who bears the blame for a kid who grows early?

The gist of your comment was that police obviously assumed that Tamir was an adult, and that the gun was real. This would have been totally within the law in Ohio, which is an open carry state. Why would a police assumption that Tamir was not breaking any laws lead them to shoot him?

Why, for example, did they not assume that he was a "good guy with a gun" doing his civic duty by responding to the "threat" described in the radio call?

My cynical response is that the Second Amendment only covers white people. John Crawford was shot for carrying a toy guy that he had just picked up off a shelf IN A TOY STORE. Also in Ohio, where it would be legal for him to be carrying a real one.


Same old (none / 0) (#58)
by McBain on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 01:09:14 PM EST

The gist of your comment was that police obviously assumed that Tamir was an adult, and that the gun was real.

Yes, especially the part about the gun.

This would have been totally within the law in Ohio, which is an open carry state. Why would a police assumption that Tamir was not breaking any laws lead them to shoot him?

We go over this every time. It was reported he was pointing the gun at people in the park. You're not allowed to do that even in an open carry state.


"I'm looking for an honest man" Diogenes (none / 0) (#60)
by Repack Rider on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 01:41:51 PM EST

We go over this every time.

...that you make a ridiculous statement defending murder by police.

It was reported he was pointing the gun at people in the park. You're not allowed to do that even in an open carry state.

Is a "report" the same as a conviction, or is a subject considered innocent until proven guilty? If you know.

The questions you studiously avoid responding to are an indication that you can't answer them.

Once again, how did the police know that Tamir was the one reported, and was not in fact a responsible good guy with a gun attempting to deal with the situation?

Why didn't the police assess the situation before issuing a death penalty for what you claim appeared to be a misdemeanor?

Also, while you justified the shooting by suggesting that Tamir was big enough to be mistaken for an adult, you didn't identify who was to blame for the growth that, according to you, led directly to his death.


Whenever we talk about a police shooting (none / 0) (#61)
by McBain on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 03:22:26 PM EST

You let emotion cloud your judgement.

There wasn't a murder in this case. Same with most police shootings.

how did the police know that Tamir was the one reported, and was not in fact a responsible good guy with a gun attempting to deal with the situation?

The police didn't know what Tamir's intentions were. If you're a "good guy" in possession of a gun when the police show up, you better be ready to put your hands up quickly and comply. Tamir didn't do what the cops wanted and, tragically, he lost his life.

The driving officer pulled up to close to Tamir, putting the shooting officer in an impossible situation. Not much time to assess. The time factor is something you and many others don't get. Probably brain washed by Hollywood.

All the officer had to do was open his eyes (none / 0) (#63)
by vicndabx on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 04:52:17 PM EST

and observe the subject.

You keep acting like a 12 year old kid should know to act like an adult when the police arrive.

If you're a "good guy" in possession of a gun when the police show up

He was a big kid playing with a pellet gun. A 12 year old kid is a "bad guy" in your mind? You're all critical of the kid's actions but have nothing to say about the ADULTS.

Maybe, just maybe, better training and a little observation before jumping the gun:

The driving officer pulled up to close to Tamir, putting the shooting officer in an impossible situation.

Glad you can admit some error occurred. Progress.


: I've said many times (2.00 / 1) (#65)
by McBain on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 08:42:42 PM EST

this would be a civil case not a criminal case. I said many times mistakes were made by the police. The reason it was never likely to be a criminal case is because you can't blame the shooting officer for the actions of the driver and dispatcher.
However, you can sue the police department for the combination of actions that led to this tragedy. I don't agree with the $6 million settlement. Like other high profile settlements, it's way too much.

You keep acting like a 12 year old kid should know to act like an adult when the police arrive.

A 12 year old should know better than to take the orange tip off a realistic looking pellet gun and point it at strangers.

You're all critical of the kid's actions but have nothing to say about the ADULTS.

Which adults are you talking about? I already criticized the police. I don't blame the person who called 911. Do you blame Tamir's mother for letting him play unsupervised? I don't.

Maybe, just maybe, better training and a little observation before jumping the gun:

Maybe. It's easy to judge after the fact. Not so easy to make life and death decisions on the spot. Police aren't robots. They sometimes get nervous and make mistakes. Most cops go through their careers without needing to discharge their firearms.

The cop was a coward (none / 0) (#64)
by Chuck0 on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 08:32:59 PM EST

More drivel. (none / 0) (#56)
by Chuck0 on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 11:32:32 AM EST

From TLs chief police apologist.


white house protection??? (none / 0) (#66)
by thomas rogan on Tue Mar 21, 2017 at 09:26:32 PM EST

Since we just had a couple of single people who made it through white house security, obviously forty terrorists could do a suicide mission. I don't blame Melania and Barron for wanting to live somewhere else.

The troll awakens (5.00 / 1) (#69)
by Chuck0 on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 04:57:49 AM EST

: And thinks 'Designated Survivor' is real. (none / 0) (#71)
by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 05:16:09 AM EST

Bahahaha (none / 0) (#78)
by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 01:52:31 PM EST

Pay no attention to all those snipers on all the rooftops


Attack at UK Parliament. (none / 0) (#74)
by vml68 on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 12:33:58 PM EST

Husband is in London right now, so I panicked for a second when I saw the news. Then, rational mind took over and I calmed down because he is in the Financial District which is a couple of miles away.

Can't imagine the panic people whose loved ones are in the area are feeling.

I know how you feel. (5.00 / 1) (#75)
by caseyOR on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 12:49:04 PM EST

I have family living in London. When I heard the news my heart seemed to skip a beat or two. Fortunately, they are all okay.

It appears motor vehicles are now a popular weapon.


Glad your peoples... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
by kdog on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 01:22:46 PM EST

are ok Ladies.

Cars and knives...what can you do about those? Nor much we can do about the sick warped minds that yield the guns, cars, knives, bombs, hateful rhetoric, etc.

Fruitless wish...I hope the resident clown in the WH can muster some compassion, class, and dignity when he comments on the crime. Even if only for 5 minutes.


I agree but it has contributed to some (none / 0) (#79)
by vml68 on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 02:06:17 PM EST

Nor much we can do about the sick warped minds that yield the guns, cars, knives, bombs, hateful rhetoric, etc.

stressful days.

Husband's travel has been giving me some heartburn lately. First the shooting in FLL at a time and day when he is usually at that airport, then he was flying back to the US from the middle-east during the first travel ban (luckily he was only hassled a little bit) and now London.

Then you have the recent "get out of my country" shootings of Indian-American men mistaken for arabs. It all adds up to me feeling a bit anxious about the safety of my brown man. I am far from being a worry wart, so this is unusual for me.


: I can only imagine... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
by kdog on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 02:16:51 PM EST

like Louis CK said...

I'm a very, you know, lucky guy. I've got a lot going for me: I'm healthy, I'm relatively young, I'm white...which, thank God for that sh1t, boy. That is a huge leg up. Are you kidding me? Oh, God, I love being white. I really do. Seriously, if you're not white, you're missing out. Because this sh1t is thoroughly good. Let me be clear, by the way. I'm not saying that white people are better. I'm saying that being white is clearly better. Who could even argue? If it was an option, I would re-up every year.

: Your worry makes perfect sense, vml. (5.00 / 1) (#83)
by caseyOR on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 03:31:35 PM EST

I worry these days about my own family members who travel, and we all have white-as-can-be Irish skin. So concern for your brown-skinned husband strikes me as a very reasonable response to our current situation.

John Dean: "Cover-up" (none / 0) (#84)
by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 03:37:56 PM EST

Former White House council to Richard Nixon John Dean said the White House's decision to distance itself from the testimony signals a "cover-up."
"There's just never been any question in my mind about that. I've been inside a cover-up. I know how they look and feel. And every signal they're sending is: 'we're covering this thing up'," Dean said.
"Experienced investigators know this. They know how people react when they're being pursued, and this White House is not showing their innocence, they're showing how damn guilty they are, is what we're seeing."