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Labor Day Weekend Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Sep 01, 2017 at 08:46:00 PM EST
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The Rolling Stones and Guns 'N Roses singing "Salt of the Earth." My favorite song for Labor Day.

Here's one of my favorite statue/sculptures, in downtown Omaha, at the Lewis & Clark landing, along Omaha's Missouri River Walkway. If you're ever there, it's well worth a visit. It's the second-largest labor monument in the U.S. Two-hundred-fifty tons of cement and 39,000 pounds of steel were used in its construction. It's by Matthew Placzek.

Larger version here.

I haven't checked the news in about a week. I missed Hurricane Harvey, and the sham border wall talk. Best of all, I haven't heard anyone mention Donald Trump's name. I'm trying to figure out how to ask the jury whether they agree with his position on the border wall without using the P. word. I've never referred to him that way on TalkLeft, and I can't imagine saying it out loud without choking.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Labor Day Weekend Open Thread | 200 comments (200 topical)
    Shelley Berman has passed away... (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 01:20:15 AM EST
    The now mostly forgotten stand-up comedian was 92. At one time he was the cat's meiow.

    Shelley Berman should absolutely not be forgotten (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by hilts on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 06:41:40 PM EST
    just as Mort Sahl, Ernie Kovacs, Lord Buckley, Tom Lehrer, Godfrey Cambridge, and The Firesign Theater should not be forgotten.

    Parent
    Shelly Berman mined (none / 0) (#11)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 06:04:23 PM EST
    some different veins of humor, as with his assessment of University of Chicago students--still a funny zinger for an alum (from the NYTimes obituary, Sept 2, 2017).

    "If you've never met a student from the University of Chicago, I'll describe him to you.  If you give him a glass of water he says: This is a glass of water.  But is it a glass of water?  And if it is a glass of water, why is it a glass of water?  And, eventually he dies of thirst."

    Parent

    Watched a bizarre documentary about (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by McBain on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 01:51:40 PM EST
    the unsolved JonBenet Ramsey murder called "Casting JonBenet".  The film consists mostly of interviews with local actors auditioning for a role in a film about the murder.  Little girls audition for the role and JonBenet, adults for the roles of her parents and local police and they give their opinions of the case and some personal experiences with tragedy and living in the Bolder area.

    At times it almost looks like a Christopher Guest mockumentary or an episode of The Office where comedic actors improvise dialog while looking into the camera.  One guy talks about his night job as a sex educator and goes into detail about flogging. Perhaps a better comparison would be the movie Borat where actors/extras get exploited and made fun of.  

    It wasn't a very good documentary.... no new evidence, just more of the same.... people thinking the Ramsey parents must have something to do with their daughters death because they didn't act right.  It was more of a film school experiment.

    People react to tragedy and grieve in different ways.  Reaching a conclusion about a murder case because of a TV interview is incredibly stupid, yet people do that all the time.  

     

    Why did you bother? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 02:22:22 PM EST
    At times it almost looks like a Christopher Guest mockumentary or an episode of The Office where comedic actors improvise dialog while looking into the camera.

    I saw the hype for the program.  It was clearly an attempt to cash in on the case, without providing anything new.

    Maybe you could explain to us why you fell for something so transparently obvious.

    Parent

    Trump sees "a lot of happiness" (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Anne on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 03:11:39 PM EST
    I kid you not.

    In a visit to one of Houston's designated emergency refuge areas, the NRG Center, Trump told reporters he is seeing "a lot of happiness."

    "It's been really nice," he said, according to the traveling press pool. "It's been a wonderful thing. As tough as this was, it's been a wonderful thing, I think even for the country to watch it and for the world to watch. It's been beautiful."

    The president also said of the children he visited who had been displaced by the storm, "They're doing great."

    When asked about the devastating flooding still covering much of the region, he replied: "The flooding? Oh, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of water, but it's leaving pretty quickly. But there's a lot of water, a lot of water, but it's moving out."

    While handing out meals to survivors of the flood, Trump paused to inform the press that his hands were too big for the sanitary plastic gloves.

    Leaving the shelter, Trump told the survivors and gathered reporters to "have a good time."

    In a subsequent visit to the First Church of Pearland in the Houston suburbs, Trump reminded flood survivors that he had declared Sunday a national day of prayer.

    "So go to your church and pray and enjoy the day," he said.

    Trump's light-hearted tone contrasted sharply with reports from the ground, where the death toll continues to climb.

    All that was missing was the observation that "this is working out really well for them."

    [rolling eyes and wondering how it is even possible for someone to be this clueless]

    my thought exactly - shades of Barbara Bush (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 07:22:07 PM EST
    Come to think of it, she might be the closest soulmate to Trump in recent political history. She was probably cheering him on calling Jeb 'Low energy' - "I ALWAYS told him that!!! Why didn't he listen to his mother?"

    Please Trump, these people have suffered enough, leave them the f*** alone.

    Parent

    From the soulless imbecile who can't distinguish (none / 0) (#21)
    by vml68 on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 12:23:43 PM EST
    between real life and reality TV.

    As tough as this was, it's been a wonderful thing, I think even for the country to watch it and for the world to watch. It's been beautiful."


    Parent
    He talked about the size (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by caseyOR on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 03:40:53 PM EST
    of his hands? Seriously?

    You'd like to think he was joking (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by jondee on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 07:08:16 AM EST
    but don't I remember Trump ever saying anything intentionally funny.

    Parent
    Nor for that matter (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Nemi on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 06:26:15 AM EST
    self-deprecating ... ever.

    Parent
    Heartbreaking. (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 10:03:25 PM EST
    The Boston Globe | September 2, 2017
    A hockey pro dies, and the coach he said raped him is free - "He was 38, once the epitome of a clean-living collegiate and professional hockey captain, an adoring father respected by countless people whose lives he had touched. But only a few knew of his personal torment. According to his family and Suffolk County prosecutors, Gove never escaped the anguished memories of his treatment by an influential Boston hockey coach who recognized his talent and took him under his wing, then allegedly raped him repeatedly over several years, beginning when he was 13. [David] Gove died two months before he was scheduled to testify in Suffolk Superior Court against the coach, Robert G. Richardson, who faced three counts of child rape. Now there will be no trial. Prosecutors have lost their victim and chief witness against Richardson, who 12 years ago was acquitted of raping another youth hockey prospect."

    May Davis Gove have finally found the peace he so very much sought, but which relentlessly eluded him for nearly his entire adult life.

    Aloha.

    it's infuriating (none / 0) (#15)
    by linea on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 11:40:24 PM EST
    coaches are abusing children and it's being covered up. in the recent gymnastics child sexual abuse scandal, it's been reported that USAG board members covered up sex abuse allegations. there is something rotten with the adults involved in sports; like when sports fans protested the removal of the bronze lenin-esque Joe Paterno statue.

    Parent
    If people protest the removal (2.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jondee on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 07:03:43 AM EST
    of statues of slave-trading traitors put up during the height of the KKK revival, why wouldn't they protest removal of the Paterno statue?

    Plus, one shouldn't forget that the abuse of innocent children is as American as apple pie -- all one has to do is witness the unashamed efforts of the vaunted, patriotic Heritage Foundation to cut poor kid's food stamps.

    Parent

    Not one but two (none / 0) (#23)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 03:38:47 PM EST
    completely inapposite comparisons.

    Parent
    Inapposite (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 06:04:23 PM EST
    now there's a word you don't see in print often. And I'm fairly well-read.

    I see taking food out of the mouths of children in need as a form of child abuse as egregious, or nearly so, as what transpired at Penn State. If you don't, possibly you need to get out in real world a little more often.

    Parent

    English is a wonderful, rich language (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 09:04:45 PM EST
    with an enormous range of words that have subtle differences of meaning. None of us has command of more than a fraction of all of them in our vocabulary. No reason not to use the ones that we do know to convey the  message we mean to send as nearly as we can. Nothing I wrote suggested how I rank different forms of mistreatment of children. As if I would ever think to. Nor did I state my opinion of Paterno, or what I think of the Penn State adulation of him.

    Parent
    Texas's Republican Governor, (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by KeysDan on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 11:02:35 AM EST
    Greg Abbott, claims that the state's "Rainy Day" fund (present corpus is $10 billion) will not be used for Hurricane Harvey relief.  While the fund's description would appear to apply to Harvey, access to the fund before the regular session, in 2019, would require the governor to call back the legislators for a special session.

     Use of the "Rainy Day"     fund is, also, somewhat of a political hot potato, and, calling for a special session would be, no doubt, an inconvenience.  And, of course, there is the prospect of federal funding which has, unlike the case of Hurricane Sandy,  the support of the Texas senators.

    Texas Special sessions appear to be reserved for more critical issues, such as a transgender bathroom bill (e.g., special session earlier in the summer of 2017).

    RIP, Walter Becker (1950-2017). (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 01:40:15 PM EST
    The bassist-guitarist and co-founder (with Donald Fagen) of the seminal jazz-rock band Steely Dan, whose crisply produced albums became an integral part of the classic FM radio soundtrack in the 1970s, has died of an undisclosed cause at age 67.

    After an extended hiatus of 15-plus years, Steely Dan finally returned in the late 1990s to critical acclaim. The group's 2000 album "Two Against Nature" garnered Becker and Fagen four long-deserved Grammy Awards, including Album of the Year.

    I came of age with Steely Dan, and all their albums, such as "Can't Buy a Thrill," "Pretzel Logic" and "Aja," remain part of my CD collection. Their 1972 song "Dirty Work" was used in the 2015 film "American Hustle" and reintroduced the band to an entire new generation of fans.

    If I absolutely had to pick a favorite song of theirs, it would be "My Old School" from the 1973 album "Countdown to Ecstacy." Or maybe it would be "Rikki Don't Lose That Number." Or "Kid Charlemagne."

    Walter Becker will be very much missed. But as his creative partner Donald Fagen noted in his public statement about his friend's passing, we'll always have his music.

    Aloha.

    As fans of Beat Literature, (none / 0) (#46)
    by KeysDan on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 04:03:46 PM EST
    Fagen and Becker chose the name "Steely Dan," from the term used by William Burroughs, in "Naked Lunch," for a d#ldo.

    Parent
    Steely Dan also recorded the title track ... (none / 0) (#61)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 01:18:37 AM EST
    ... "FM (No Static at All)" to the 1978 film "FM," an amusingly offbeat but otherwise pretty forgettable movie which nevertheless has an engaging and memorable film score. As a soundtrack double-album, "FM" quickly topped the charts.

    In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if "FM" the soundtrack actually earned the producers more money than "FM" the movie. Listening to it today, its sound still evokes the mid-'70s era in which its music was produced, rock's last creative period before disco throttled the music scene, obliterating everything and everyone in its path.

    Aloha.  

    Parent

    In the land of milk and honey (none / 0) (#56)
    by ragebot on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 10:59:43 PM EST
    you must put them on the table

    From "Do It Again"

    Now you swear and kick and beg us
    That you're not a gamblin' man
    Then you find you're back in Vegas
    With a handle in your hand
    Your black cards can make you money
    So you hide them when you're able
    In the land of milk and honey
    You must put them on the table

    Hard for me to pick only one song from the Dan but this one is a real goodie.

    Parent

    You been tellin' me you're a genius (none / 0) (#57)
    by ragebot on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 11:03:46 PM EST
    From "Reelin' In The Years"

    You been tellin' me you're a genius
    Since you were seventeen
    In all the time I've known you
    I still don't know what you mean
    The weekend at the college
    Didn't turn out like you planned
    The things that pass for knowledge
    I can't understand

    God they were so good.  One of my favorite bands.


    Parent

    Eulogy (none / 0) (#58)
    by ragebot on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 11:16:53 PM EST
    from "Kings"

    We seen the last of Good King Richard
    Ring out the past his name lives on
    Roll out the bones and raise up your pitcher
    Raise up your glass to Good King John

    Parent

    I love this one, just always makes me smile (none / 0) (#106)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:19:19 PM EST
    I remember the thirty-five sweet goodbyes
    When you put me on the Wolverine up to Annandale
    It was still September
    When your daddy was quite surprised
    To find you with the working girls in the county jail
    I was smoking with the boys upstairs when I
    Heard about the whole affair, I said oh no
    William and Mary won't do
    Well, I did not think the girl
    Could be so cruel
    And I'm never going back
    To my old school


    Parent
    Nuclear war on the way? (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by caseyOR on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 05:39:41 PM EST
    I have been watching the news off and on today. Lots of talk about North Korea and its bomb test yesterday. Lots of talk about Trump's reactions to that test. None of this news is at all reassuring.

    Trump and Kim Jong-Un, perhaps the most irrational, impulsive, ill-informed leaders in the universe of nuclear capable countries, are practically daring one another to start a war.

    I grew up in the fifties and sixties. I could duck and cover with the best of them, and I have never been this afraid of a nuclear war breaking out.

    Roy Blunt was (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 06:53:33 PM EST
    on one of the morning shows talking about this.   there is a part where he is describing Kim in the most frightening unflattering ways he could think of.  unstable, spoiled, venal and vengeful.

    the funny part was if you did not know who he was describing every single thing he said was a perfect description of Trump.

    Parent

    Yes, with (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 06:12:49 PM EST
    all the other craziness going on the last thing we need is a d*ck waving contest between those two.

    Parent
    oh dear, (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by leap on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 06:33:49 PM EST
    like this...? If they could just keep it to that particular dispute.

    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 08:24:31 PM EST
    I need some brain bleach.

    Parent
    The Most Incredible Thing About Kim Jong-Un (none / 0) (#28)
    by RickyJim on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 08:09:42 PM EST
    is that the US is far, far more upset about his nuclear capabilities than China and Russia or even South Korea and Japan.  If you can explain that to me, then you can probably figure out why China and Russia would not love to have the Koreas unified with the US withdrawing its forces from the peninsula as part of the bargain.

    Parent
    Hurricane Irma (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by fishcamp on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 11:35:54 AM EST
    is still 1,900 miles away from Key West and the news people are frantically scaring everybody with their predictions.  It's still too far away for the hurricane hunter airplanes to check it out and get back home.  I will post daily reports.  My Cuban weather site is one of the best.  Hope it turns north and skips us.

    My homie Levi (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by ragebot on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 11:22:26 PM EST
    runs what I consider the best sight for tropical weather; Tropicaltidbits.  He is a post dock guy at FSU which has one of the better metrology departments around, especially for stuff like hurricanes which tend worry folks in Florida.  While he does repeat some stuff in his vids his explanations are more understandable than anything else I have seen.

    Parent
    Spell check got me (none / 0) (#60)
    by ragebot on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 11:28:29 PM EST
    sight = site and dock = doc

    Parent
    Trying to process that I actually (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 01:19:37 PM EST
    wake up every day wondering if we're at war with North Korea...."massive military response" is not what I want to hear from those who are supposed to be reining in this horrible "person."  

    Also trying to process just how small and devoid of humanity and heart someone has to be to punish almost a million people - and their families - by ending DACA.  Oh, he loves the Dreamers (suuuure he does) but his hate for anything Obama supported burns hotter than a thousand suns and apparently cannot be extinguished.

    And so, we suffer this little man's psychological deficits, which are escalating in their intensity and danger.

    I'm a little scared and a lot angry.

    i have been noticing (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:51:32 AM EST
    the furst ladys baseball caps.  

    they have become topical.  

    she should get one that says TROPHY

    or (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 10:06:31 AM EST
    I'm with Stupid
      <--------

    Parent
    als (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 10:21:51 AM EST
    she, as a result of the DACHA announcemnt, should start national video conferences on "how to become a citizen"

    Parent
    Why? (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 11:06:32 AM EST
    It would just be one sentence "marry an American".

    Parent
    If a person enters the country without going (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 11:28:18 AM EST
    through customs and immigration, the "marry an American" does not work.
    This is not directed at you, but I have read comment after comment from people saying if these dreamers/their family have been in the US for 10-20 years, they had enough time to become citizens. Few realize that if you enter the country illegally then the avenues to residency and eventually citizenship are almost non-existent.

    Parent
    And that sad fact is why Obama (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 11:48:47 AM EST
    signed that executive order in the first place, because when you're a child, you don't have any way to control what your parents do: they're your parents, this is your family, so you go where they go.

    The man with the Obama complex doesn't care that he's playing with people's lives, consigning good, hard-working people to exile just to be able to stick it to Obama (who I understand said he would have something to say about this if Trump went through with it).

    He isn't fit for this - or any - office.


    Parent

    76% v. 15% (none / 0) (#109)
    by linea on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:54:42 PM EST
    76% of americans think it's a great idea that children (brought here by their parents when they were under 15 year old) who have been raised and educated in the u.s. and have "completed high school or... have been honorably discharged from the armed forces" should recieve LPR or u.s. citizen status.

    Morning/Consult Poll

    A majority of voters, 58 percent, think these undocumented immigrants, also known as Dreamers, should be allowed to stay and become citizens if they meet certain requirements -- a sentiment that goes well beyond the existing DACA program. Another 18 percent think they should be allowed to stay and become legal residents, but not citizens. Only 15 percent think they should be removed or deported from the country.


    Parent
    melania (none / 0) (#101)
    by linea on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 07:49:32 PM EST
    It would just be one sentence "marry an American".

    melania had LPR status in 2001 and became a u.s. cotizen in 2006. that's the full five years. her marriage to donald trump in 2005 made no difference to her status nor expedited her petition for u.s. citizenship.

    Parent

    You state that as a fact (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:32:27 AM EST
    ... when, in reality, you have no way of knowing.  Leaving aside Melania's inconsistent claims about the type of visa she obtained in 1996 and when she began working here, even the Trump organization attorney who said he helped her get a green card in 2001 said it was "based on marriage."

    Parent
    On August 5, 2016, (5.00 / 5) (#131)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 12:34:54 PM EST
    during the campaign, Trump said that Melania would be having a press conference "in the next few weeks, to prove that she came in totally legally."  Publication of nude photos introduced the potential discrepancy in her story.  So, any day now, this will all be cleared up, straight from the horse's mouth, so to say.

    Parent
    who cares! (1.00 / 1) (#181)
    by linea on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 08:20:53 PM EST
    what's your obsession?

    also, she's a model - your attempt at shaming with your 'nude photos' comment is childish.

    Parent

    The comment was about his lying (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 09:31:08 PM EST
    and hypocrisy, Linea, not about her modeling.

    Parent
    I do (5.00 / 4) (#183)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 09:33:29 PM EST
    Not about the nude photos, but everything else.  She pushed her husband's candidacy which included a crack down on immigration, while her own immigration is, at best, questionable.  She chose internet bullying as a cause, while promoting the candidacy of the biggest internet bully.  Not to mention lying about her education and marrying Trump for his money.

    Parent
    The photo shoot (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 10:54:06 AM EST
    of Melania Trump (nee Knavs) is cited through a link in the CNN article.  The particular nude photos were deployed as a marker date for a discrepancy in her immigration history---a controversial history as raised in the TL discussion.

     And, of course, where is the missing press conference of Mrs. Trump to set matters straight , as promised by Trump?

     Trump's (not to mention Sessions') hostility, if not obsession, with immigrants from selective Hispanic origins, reinforces the warning that those who live in stone houses should not throw glasses. Or, there will be glass to clean up.

    Parent

    why? (none / 0) (#107)
    by linea on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:21:03 PM EST
    why should she get one that says 'trophy?' i didn't see anything wrong with her 'flotus' bassball cap nor do i see her baseball cap as a reason to spit the 'trophy wife' perjorative with the implied 'gold-digger' denigration.

    by CaptHowdy
    she should get one that says TROPHY


    Parent
    Why not? (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:35:13 AM EST
    It's accurate.  Plus, I doubt "Gold Digger" would fit on a hat in a font large enough to be legible from any distance.

    Parent
    Huh. Sounds like your hat should read (none / 0) (#128)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 12:07:55 PM EST
    "Jelly."

    Parent
    Mmmmm, ... no (none / 0) (#130)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 12:34:49 PM EST
    I tend to prefer women with a little more substance/intelligence/independence, not to mention those who aren't young enough to be my daughter so that we share common interests.  Plus, I have little respect for the kind of women  who marry for money.  Might be why I'm going on 26 years in my only marriage, rather than on wife number 3.

    But I understand that some men are jealous of Trump and project their feelings.

    Parent

    Congratulations! (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 03:41:14 PM EST
    Yman: "Might be why I'm going on 26 years in my only marriage, rather than on wife number 3."

    You're doing much better than my three siblings and me, who have ten marriages between us. The only one who has only one marriage is my younger sister -- and she's been separated from her husband for almost four years now.

    I'm nine years older than my spouse, and we've been married for almost 27 years. I have to admit that when we first started dating, I was 28 and she was 19, and I very much noticed the age differential with regards to our respective tastes in music, TV, etc.

    We first met at the University of Hawaii at Manoa when I was a graduate T.A. in the History Dept. and she was in the freshman World Civ. lab section I taught during spring semester. But we didn't start dating until the fall, when we ran into one another at a Young Democrats function and I asked her out.

    And she was conscious of our age difference as well, because her girlfriends in college all ribbed her for dating an "older" man -- and a T.A., yet! That's perfectly understandable, of course. I remember when I was 19, and 28 seemed a lot older to me at the time.

    Now that we're both older ourselves, that differential represents a smaller proportion of our life spans than when we first met, so it doesn't matter much at all any more.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Speaking of projections. (3.00 / 2) (#132)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 01:05:31 PM EST
    Not unexpected, of course...

    Parent
    It shouldn't be unexpected (none / 0) (#143)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 05:45:25 PM EST
    You get what you give.  When you try to put words/motivations in the mouths/minds of others, don't be surprised when you get it thrown back in your face.

    Parent
    Heh. So that is what you are telling yourself. (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 06:55:47 PM EST
    Very amusing.

    Anyway, ftr, you do not know that Meliana is a "Gold Digger."

    You think you know. You want to know. You want to think you know. But you don't actually know.

    It was this, your "put(ting) words/motivations in the mouths/minds of others" that I initially responded, in kind, to.

    Didn't realize it would hit such a tender nerve in you...

    Continue to flail away wildly at this if you like, never give up!

    Parent

    Of course I don't "know" it (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:46:16 PM EST
    Not for a fact certain.  But the problem with your failed comparison is that your ridiculous speculation about me is based on absolutely nothing, while my description of Melania is based on facts.  But you're right.  There is always the possibility that Melania - in her mid-twenties - was just overwhelmed by Donald's handsomeness.  Or perhaps it was the alluring physique of a man her father's age who loves fast food and hates to exercise.  No?  Well, no doubt she was attracted to the challenge of a serial womanizer and philanderer and enjoyed the prospect of being the third wife.  No doubt his billions were not even a consideration and she would have been just as attracted to him if he was a dishwasher making minimum wage while they lived in a 5th floor walk-up efficiency.

    Heh.

    Parent

    You forgot to mention (5.00 / 4) (#153)
    by Peter G on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:58:27 PM EST
    his charming personality, scintillating intelligence, and wit. Plus he knows the words to Crosby Stills and Nash songs ... which Melania had in all likelihood never heard of.

    Parent
    It could've also been ... (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 09:27:38 PM EST
    ... well, you know.

    ;-D

    Parent

    There was absolutely no need to inflict (none / 0) (#196)
    by vml68 on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 02:06:17 PM EST
    that mental image on us. Bleaaagh.

    Parent
    some men are jealous and project their feelings (1.00 / 1) (#184)
    by linea on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 01:33:30 AM EST
    by Yman
    Plus, I have little respect for the kind of women  who marry for money.  Might be why I'm going on 26 years in my only marriage, rather than on wife number 3.

    you don't get to judge the choices women make.

    Definition of self-righteous
    :  convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others :  narrow-mindedly moralistic

    Definition of petty
    :  marked by or reflective of narrow interests and sympathies :  small-minded

    Definition of bitter
    :  harshly reproachful bitter complaints  :  marked by cynicism and rancor  :  was still bitter about not being chosen

    Parent

    Everyone judges, linea, in one form or (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 04:49:48 PM EST
    another; right now, you're judging Yman for making judgments about Melania, aren't you?

    People marry for their own reasons. If Melania married for money or security or power and it's working for her, well, good for her.  I've been married for 37 years and know that had I married for those reasons, it wouldn't have lasted long - it's just not who I am.  I guess I think about who I know myself to be, and look at someone like Melania, and if those were her reasons, it does make me form some opinions about her and about her character.

    Especially, because they have a child together.  If you think kids don't know or feel when their parents have more of a business arrangement than one of love and affection, you'd be wrong.  And I'm sorry, but marriage-as-a-business arrangement is not what I wanted our children to absorb for themselves, which is likely what poor Barron will do himself.

    Whatever I think of Melania has nothing to do with what she thinks of herself; clearly, she feels no need to defend her choices - she likely doesn't care what we think, which is fine - she doesn't have to.

    But here's something I think I know about these people based on what they do and say and show the public: they are selfish, small, petty and mean.  They say one thing and do another.  They think it's all about them, all the time.  They justify some real ugliness in order to protect their arrangement.  I don't think defending Trump for his own ugly sexist remarks and actions is part of being a supportive life partner.  I don't think staying silent when her husband demeans and belittles and excoriates people is defensible.

    He's an ugly-at-his-core person, and it says something about her that she's okay enough with that to stay married to him - because the financial benefits are too great to give up.

    Yeah, I'm judging.  I can't see into their petty little minds, but what I can see absolutely allows me to have opinions about them.

    Parent

    Vanity Fair makes a judgement (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 05:24:22 PM EST
    Vanity Fair outrage: Michelle Obama, not Melania Trump, makes International Best Dressed List and people blame politics

    (FOX NOOZE link)

    Parent

    I don't find (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 06:28:26 PM EST
    what she wears particularly noteworthy. I thought best dressed was supposed to be a "trend setter" of which Melania is not.

    Parent
    Some women are jealous and superficial (3.00 / 2) (#195)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 12:51:38 PM EST
    Actually, not only do I get to do it, I - in fact - just did it.  But I was specifically judging the choices and actions of Melania Trump, a public figure, something we all do on a regular basis to both men and women, including you.  The fact that she's a woman is completely irrelevant except that it once again illustrates how you're incapable of forming a coherent argument without resorting to laughable false accusations of sexism.

    Definition of superficial
    :shallow; not profound or thorough:
    insubstantial or insignificant

    Definition of hypocrite
    :a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

    Definition of ditz
    : slang.airhead

    Parent

    "Trophy wife" is a dig (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Peter G on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 11:33:11 AM EST
    at him, not at her, imho. (From the mouth of the woman in question, its usage would most likely be taken or intended as ironic.) "Golddigger," on the other hand, would be an accusation against her. I have to assume that what attracted him to her, and what he wanted from her, was balanced by what attracted her to him and what she wanted from him. A well-balanced relationship that she seems to be handling well.

    Parent
    Urban Dictionary defines "trophy wife:" (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 11:41:08 AM EST
    A young, attractive woman married to an older, more powerful man.

    His role in the relationship is to be her sugar daddy and provide her with power and material wealth. Hers, beyond providing sex, is to remind others that he is powerful or rich enough to be desirable to such a woman despite his age and thus to serve as a marker of this status -- hence the "trophy" part. A specialized type of gold digger.

    Seems accurate to me!

    Parent

    Are you telling me she fell in love (none / 0) (#110)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 09:03:17 PM EST
    with Donald Trump?

    Parent
    pfffft (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 07:07:39 AM EST


    Parent
    damn (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 07:34:54 AM EST
    now i cant get this out of my head

    sorry,  i have not slept and my brain is making strange connections.  still, it is jay and the AMERICANS

    Parent

    And yes (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:47:21 AM EST
    the GOTG remix is better.

    But it's not the one stuck in my head.

    Parent

    Here's the thing (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 09:45:50 AM EST
    I do not think Ms Trump Sr is asleep at the wheel.
    She strikes me as a fu#king amazing book, a and b possibly the only person in this entire cluster f#ck/sh!storm who seems to know EXACTLY what she is doing.

    I could start a Melanie fan club before this is over.

     

    Parent

    I don't think there's anything (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:33:28 PM EST
    wrong with marriages of convenience that both partners agree to. And come to think of it, they don't even really pretend to any big love story. I hope Melania has gotten her payout in installments because there's not going to be much left when it all goes down.

    Parent
    What bugs me about Melania (none / 0) (#154)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 09:04:26 PM EST
    is she makes virtually no noticeable attempt to be First Lady.....Maureen Dowd wrote some drivel about her looking good at the dinner table once.

    Man, I miss Michelle.....

    Parent

    LOL! (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 09:15:41 PM EST
    Here, MKS, this is for you.

    Parent
    Let's play a game. (none / 0) (#146)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:31:59 PM EST
    ruffian: "Are you telling me she fell in love with Donald Trump?"

    I'll provide the picture, and you supply the caption, such as "Hold hands, you lovebirds!"

    Every time I see the Trumps together, I think of Tony Montana (Al Pacino) and Elvira Hancock (Michelle Pfeiffer) in "Scarface."

    ;-D

    Parent

    Ok, I'll play! (none / 0) (#148)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:44:22 PM EST
    "Barron, take off the 'I'm a Dreamer' t-shirt"

    I've never seen Scarface...which more and more seems like a serious hole in my education!

    Parent

    Then you don't know (none / 0) (#152)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:51:22 PM EST
    ...the immortal movie line:

    "Say hello to my leettle friend!"

    That was the only redeeming aspect of the film.

    Parent

    Great cast, great director, great camp. (none / 0) (#156)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 09:10:30 PM EST
    "Scarface" is so over-the-top at times that it's laugh-out-loud cheesy funny. Every time I see Al Pacino in that film, I think of Ricky Ricardo hopped up on coke. Even its hyperviolence is often cartoonish, although admittedly, it's also not for the squeamish.

    In a warped way, I often wonder how Brian De Palma would've staged the catfight scene in "The Valley of the Dolls," another camp classic -- only this time, Patty Duke and Susan Hayward are armed with grenade launchers and chainsaws.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    CULT (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 03:48:11 PM EST
    AMERICAN HORROR STORY - CULT.  the seventh season starts tonight.  and yes, Virginia, its political.

    American Horror Story: Cult (FX, 10:00 p.m.) - Season seven of American Horror Story is back and ready to give us all nightmares. This season's been rumored to revolve around President Donald Trump so it makes sense that Sarah Paulson's character is so traumatized by the election results that she begins seeing deranged clowns everywhere she goes. The fact that a spree of murders has taken place in her neighborhood, her wife voted for Jill Stein, she's got a pair of creepy new neighbors, and a blue-haired Evan Peters is rallying deplorables to help him take advantage of the new Trump regime doesn't make things any easier. As satirical and ridiculous as it sounds, we're still going to offer a trigger warning because it's just too soon.
    Oh hell yeah (none / 0) (#100)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 07:49:02 PM EST
    I'm watching it, and I don't like AHS. It was too chaotic and subliminally bruising. It didn't match my life enough for how much it poked and cut me. My life is a chaotic terrorized hell though now. I didn't sleep the night of ACA repeal vote, now dreamers are terrorized with threats of a new repeal vote. Being terrorized, only one aspect of dealing with a certain leader. Life matches AHS now. There will be no fresh bruises on my psyche from watching American Horror Story.

    Parent
    holy crow (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 07:09:14 AM EST
    i just watched it.  busy last night.

    A M A Z I N G

    "I dont believe anything until i hear Rachel Maddow say it!"

    Parent

    ok (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:05:41 AM EST
    i watched it again.

    and read some reviews.  this is special.  IGN -

    The earliest reports for American Horror Story's seventh installment had it centered around an election. Not just any election - THE election. Last year's presidential run between Hillary and Donald. And while it remained unclear what the actual horror aspects of that would be, there were many jokes to be made about how those months of campaigning didn't need anything extra to make them terrifying. Even traumatizing, to get more specific.

    This is where American Horror Story: Cult takes its cues. Not just from the truly polarizing aspect of the American political and social landscape right now, but from the true dread and fear that many Americans fear over losing their freedoms, rights, and citizenship in the name of a group of hateful citizens who somehow think the country belongs to them more than it does to others. Cult seems to be, at the outset here, a heightened examination of the aftermath. As always too, with a healthy smattering of satire - half hacky, half gourmet.

    There were only small glimpses of a "cult" in the first episode of Cult, "Election Night," as a more apropos title for the season after this first chapter could simply be "Fear," but the opening credits were filled with enough bees and hives to suggest a "dangerous shared ideology." So far, after one episode, it doesn't look like we'll be dealing with cults in the way we all tend to think of them: secret societies and/or backwoods religious doomsday compounds. This season seems to have planted roots in a terrifying social experiment started by a young, slovenly sociopath named Kai (Evan Peters), who seems to admire the fact that society may start to fall in line and hand over their rights because they're afraid.



    Parent
    While Sessions, (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 03:53:58 PM EST
    on behalf of Trump (who was hiding behind one of Spicey's bushes) put a Tiki torch to the DACA program, details (usually unheard of for this administration) were being set forth on its administration.  That six months delay, applies to those Dreamers in the program; but no new applications will be accepted as of now.

    Also, the key issue of what the Administration will do with the information Dreamers gave as part of their applications--information that amounts to an admission of having entered the country illegally, albeit, without their knowledge, since they were children at the time.  The Citizenship and Immigration Services. which administers DACA, has guidelines that state: "information provided in this request is protected from disclosure to ICE pr Customs and Border Patrol."  

    The information was divulged by trusting Dreamers expecting that their information would not be shared (e.g.,  date of initial entry, length of stay, addresses,school information, social security numbers).  

    The White House and DHS now say ICE can use DACA information in the process of finding and deporting Dreamers.  While the Citizenship and Immigration Services will not be proactive, if ICE asks for information, the agency will comply.  

    they can (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 04:04:24 PM EST
    to be still more clear.  i do not think the protections will be taken away from these people.  i said in my other comment they will be terrorized and victimized.  thats terrible.  but in the end they will win.

    THAT said.  other things have happened that seem impossible.  yeah, i have noticed that.  heres what i think.

    IF they really do this, IF they use the information as you say, there will be a democratic wave in 2018 the likes of which have rarely been seen.  its already building.  this would supersize it.

    that is why i believe it will not be allowed.  more than anything i trust a man, or woman, who is working in their own interest.  allowing this would not be in the interest of most republican office holders.

    Parent

    Yes, I believe (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 04:28:25 PM EST
    you are correct...you might have thought Trump and the hapless Republicans would have learned something from trying to take away health insurance coverage.  The dreaded Obamacare was not so bad after all.

    But, then, here we are. Pardon for Arpaio, nightmares for the Dreamers.  There was no pressing need to take this step, no court challenges, nothing other than to bolster the base's desire for cleansing. Particularly at this time, with Trump and Kim being nuclear playmates,  metro Houston climbing out of flood waters and dealing with exploding chemical plants, the north west on fire, and a Cat 5 barreling toward the Florida/SE coasts.

    I am wondering if the Democrats 2018 campaign shouldn't be a stated pledge to put impeachment on the table....or at the very least, a stated pledge to curb their vile enthusiasm in some explicit ways, pledging no bipartisanship until all the espionage/corruption/and abuses of power are dealt with.

    Parent

    not to be overlooked (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 04:47:31 PM EST
    Mueller is closing in.  i repeat,  indictments befor winter.    that this is happening now, as you say for no obvious reason, is not a coinkydink.

    this is all theater.  tragic theater.

    i do think some here are going to be surprised at the way the republicans deal with Trump now that they are back.

    Trumps dead.  he is a walking dead man.  this is known.  its about to get really interesting and i am so sorry these innocent kids have to be swept up in it.

    Parent

    You made my day. (none / 0) (#95)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 05:02:27 PM EST
    Sure hope so.   That may explain why Trump sent the most gleeful Sessions out to do the dirty deed: makes Sessions all the more despicable, and the easier to do what is on his mind: fire him. But, it is too late for Trump to go in that direction, although he probably does not recognize it.

    Parent
    Sessions was so disgustingly happy (none / 0) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 07:53:20 PM EST
    It was nauseating how happy he was just $h*tting on innocent people. He's an effing sadist.

    Parent
    Unfortunately, (none / 0) (#103)
    by NYShooter on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:01:03 PM EST
    You know what Presidents, historically, have resorted to when they've found themselves in big political doo-doo.

    Let's hope our pathologically narcissistic "Winner" of a President doesn't look at Kim Jong Un as his "get out of jail" ticket of last resort.

    I didn't like reading what our National Security Advisor, General McMaster, had to say about North Korea: "U.S. Prepared to Launch `Preventive War."
    I had thought he was more of an intellectual, but, more and more, I'm getting the feeling he's a true Hawk.......just looking for a provocation.


    Parent

    I don't know (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 04:35:09 PM EST
    McConnell says he is not going to bring the legislation up for a vote. We shall see.

    Parent
    And then there is Paul....Ryan has been (none / 0) (#97)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 05:27:49 PM EST
    all over the map...for it before he was against it.  And, Ryan is still dealing with the Dennis Hastert Rule: the majority of the majority, before he can bring it up.  

    Parent
    Boston Sports in the news again (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by CST on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 11:21:37 AM EST
    For some dumb $hit.  Sigh.  Honestly of all the bad news, the thing about the owner of the Bruins is the worst of it.  Stealing signals from the Yankees is something we can all forgive.  Stealing from kids...  Despicable.

    The nytimes meanwhile is worried about Tom Brady's brain.  Personally, I might be done with football entirely.  It's hard to keep supporting something that is so terrible for everyone involved.

    At this point, it feels like rooting for the home team is like rooting for the night King.

    I love football. (none / 0) (#140)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 04:07:45 PM EST
    But hey, if the powers-that-be ever decide to ban the sport due to the now obvious detrimental health effects, I think I'll probably live.

    I'd be a lot happier, though, if the NFL would acknowledge its responsibility to former players who helped build the league into what it is today, and simply step up and take care of those who are in physical distress without having to first be prompted and shamed.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Spoken with the voice of that alien (none / 0) (#142)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 05:40:24 PM EST
    that kept Anakin's mother as a slave

    "no we won't!" cheating basteds

    something we can all forgive

    or is that bahsteds?

    Parent

    Anyone else worried (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by CST on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 12:00:29 PM EST
    About what it means to be a bystander right now?  

    I am worried that I'm not doing anything particularly productive about the current state of political affairs, and that I don't know what I should be doing instead.  I think in some ways that's part of why I took such a big break from blogging.  It all feels so useless.

    Me. After the election, I did not make it through (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 12:27:16 PM EST
    all of the five stages of grief. My fifth stage was not 'acceptance', it is rage and I have been stuck there. Not very healthy. I check the news headlines every morning in the hopes that it is going to say IMPEACHED across the page but it hasn't happened yet :-(.
    I have been avoiding political blogs/discussions as much as possible and focusing instead on things that are more conducive to good mental health!

    Parent
    I've been scanning (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 01:51:18 PM EST
    for an obituary. Impeachment is not enough.

    Parent
    So much anger (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by CST on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 02:01:28 PM EST
    And nowhere to put it.

    Also - worried about what it will bring.  If there's one thing I've noticed about the Trump supporters I know it's that they actually don't seem to care at all about policy, the one thing they know is that they're angry at liberals.  I don't want to turn into the complement of that.  But some things should make you angry.

    Impeachment, or even an obituary, might make Trump go away, but it won't make the problems of the American electorate go away.

    Parent

    You are correct. (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 02:12:10 PM EST
    But it's a good start.

    Do not go gentle into that good night,
    Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
    Because their words had forked no lightning they
    Do not go gentle into that good night.

    Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
    Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
    And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
    Do not go gentle into that good night.

    Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
    Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    And you, my father, there on the sad height,
    Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    -Dylan Thomas

    Parent

    Trump cut a deal with Pelosi and Schumer (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 04:47:51 PM EST
    On the debt ceiling and Texas aid. I knew he was fickle enough to do it. I am delighted, but glad I'm not having to deal with this President daily. He plays everyone against each other. But I think he'll work with Dems on DACA.

    Parent
    Being kind to each other... (4.50 / 2) (#133)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 01:19:51 PM EST
    and being a living example of the political change you seek is enough...and we all know you're doing that old pal, so don't be so hard on yourself.

    Plenty of avenues of "change" are equally as useless as blogging...though I prefer to not think of it as useless.  Speaking and listening is never useless, though it can feel that way too often.

    Now Congress, they're pretty f*cking useless;)  

    Parent

    Remember the sub-prime borrower nonsense? (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 05:46:13 PM EST
    Well lookie-here:

    Mounting evidence suggests that the notion that the 2007 crash happened because people with shoddy credit borrowed to buy houses they couldn't afford is just plain wrong. The latest comes in a new NBER working paper arguing that it was wealthy or middle-class house-flipping speculators who blew up the bubble to cataclysmic proportions, and then wrecked local housing markets when they defaulted en masse.

    Link

    But of course, that's exactly what happened. (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:47:13 PM EST
    The sheer size of the crash made that painfully self-evident to anyone who knows anything about macro-economics. Poor people don't have the financial capacity to speculate in the markets on such a scale like that, and never had the resources and / or leverage to bring the entire house down around our ears.

    But our pugnacious punditocracy simply finds it to be so much easier and a lot more fun to blame poor people, since they're mostly helpless and can't fight back. And if they're also people of color, why, so much the better. That's worth double points on "Fox and Friends."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Lawrence O'Donnell is great on this (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 09:06:16 PM EST
    Debt ceiling 'negotiation' today that I didn't get a chance to follow in real time. Wow, what a great deal maker. The look on MConnells face was priceless.

    Wish I were having drinks with Schumer and Pelosi tonight.

    this is a very interesting development (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 07:38:48 AM EST
    is it another distraction?  is it a new strategy?

    consider this, Trump has been getting pummeled for getting nothing done.  its pretty clear that the republicans are going to continue to do nothing.  or as close to nothing as they can manage.  what if Trump suddenly decides to do the "tax bill"  with the democrats.  and do what he said he would do on taxes while campaigning?  what if he decides to go with the moderate/democrat efforts in the senate to fix Obamacare and actully help people get healthcare like he promised while campaigning?  what if he decides to do an infrastructure bill with the democrats?

    we know this man has no core.  he has no plan.  he has no ideology.  he wants to say he won.  something.  anything.  

    and you know what, if he did those things im pretty sure his approval numbers would crawl right out of the toilet.

    i agree with the idea that its very easy to "overthink" this deal with the democrats.

    just sayin.

    Parent

    he's just winging it (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by CST on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 07:51:10 AM EST
    and he'll continue to do so.  And I think Pelosi and Schumer are just better at playing him than the Republicans in congress.

    I don't think there's any grand strategy.  That doesn't mean it won't somehow succeed anyway.

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 08:09:56 AM EST
    Trump really has no strategy.

    Parent
    winging it (none / 0) (#163)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 08:12:43 AM EST
    yes.  thats what i think.  yesterday was clearly not planned.  IMO he just did what his alligator brain said to do and made the best deal.  for him.  in that moment.

    i think all the rest is afterthought.

    but i dont think i am the only one to think it.

    Parent

    UPDATE (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 09:12:50 AM EST
    banner on MSNBC

    PELOSIE CONTROLS TRUMPS TWITTER FEED

    Parent

    Boom boom boom (none / 0) (#199)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 06:27:17 PM EST
    I agree, there is no strategy, just what gets him through the next 15 minutes, as one writer said. He needs popularity and approval and I have no doubt 'Chuck and Nancy' know how to pour it on when they need to.

    This was probably a one-off, but it was for the right cause. No 'drift right' to make a deal with him as some fear will happen in the future.


    Parent

    Yes, I think (none / 0) (#171)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 11:13:13 AM EST
    he won, along with Nancy and Chuck. And, the country.  For him, the win was coming out of the Oval Office meeting being able to say that he achieved Harvey relief funding, and kept the government funded and raised the debt ceiling.  

    To come out of that meeting with Nancy, Chuck and those other unnamed (or hard for him to remember the names of) Republican leaders empty handed would have been unfathomable to him. Mitch and Paul still appear not to have caught on to him. And, besides, he was no doubt becoming restive and bored after a few minutes.

     After all, Ivanka was waiting to accompany "Daddy" (he said he likes being called Daddy; a little curious for a non-Southerner, but less so than Pence's "Mother") on his barnstorming promotion of his yet to be crafted tax cut plan in North Dakota.

    The sight of Ivanka freaked out those Republican leaders, since her entry signaled the end to the "negotiations."  As for the three months and do it again part, for Trump three months is long range thinking. The only thing different about this  meeting was the new wallpaper in the Oval Office.

    Parent

    Leslie Van Houten granted parole (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 09:46:53 PM EST
    I agree and hope she continues helping people outside of prison, as she has inside.

    Does Jerry Brown still have veto power over (none / 0) (#164)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 08:26:59 AM EST
    the parole? I believe another of the Manson women was granted parole in the past and he squashed it. Can he still do that this time?

    Parent
    Leslie Van Houten was the one whose parole ... (none / 0) (#186)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 05:40:32 AM EST
    ... Gov. Brown blocked. This is her second go-round. And yes, he still retains that authority.

    I'm not sure how I feel about it. No doubt, Van Houten has been a model prisoner for the better part of four decades, and she was only 19 years old when the LaBianca murders -- for which she stands convicted -- occurred. She's now 68 and very unlikely to re-offend.

    On the other hand, surviving LaBianca family members are still traumatized emotionally by that wanton slaughter 49 years ago, and Van Houten's release will rip the scab off a very painful wound. Shouldn't Gov. Brown take their feelings into account? My head says no, he shouldn't, but my heart isn't so sure. After all, she committed the crime and as crimes go, this one was particularly horrific.

    Either way, I'm glad it's not my decision.

    Parent

    From our "Cooking with Solar" file: (none / 0) (#2)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 02:35:48 AM EST
    It was 106 degrees in downtown San Francisco today. This easily breaks the all-time record high of 103, set 17 years ago. And in a city where the average daytime temperature in the summer is in the 60s and most residences don't have air conditioning, the Tucson imitation was definitely noticed and not necessarily enjoyed.

    The East Bay was even worse, with temperatures in Oakland, Walnut Creek and San Ramon rising above 110, which compelled school districts and interscholastic athletic officials to either cancel scheduled football games tonight, or delay kickoff until well after sunset.

    Here's hoping that Bay Area residents catch a break this weekend.

    Meanwhile, back at Crazy Ranch... (none / 0) (#4)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 01:56:53 PM EST
    Trump nominates Oklahoma congressman and climate change denier Jim Bridenstine to head NASA.

    If the Senate confirms the 42-year-old former Navy flier, he would be the first elected politician to hold a job that's been the purview of scientists, engineers and astronauts


    Parent
    Really... I love it. (none / 0) (#8)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 03:54:36 PM EST
    Don Jr. will be speaker at the University of North Texas, at Denton, TX (metro Dallas/Ft.Worth, enrollment 36,000).

      According to the speaker's agreement    , released by the students, Don Jr. will be paid $100,000 (a mix of private donors/sponsors/University Pres. Office & 20 other University units) along with a travel allowance of $5,000 for the over-night visit (the University will provide hotel accommodations).  

    The agreement calls for a 30 minute speech and a 30 minute Q&A, however, questions must be provided ahead of time.  Secret Service protection is on the taxpayers.  

    While not a former Secretary of State, or US Senator, or former President, Don Jr. does have complex presidential campaign experience with Russians.  Perhaps, his topic will be Russian adoptions.

    I absolutely love how these shameless (5.00 / 9) (#9)
    by Peter G on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 04:46:18 PM EST
    grifters do each and every one of the same things for which they viciously and baselessly criticized the Clintons.

    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#32)
    by Nemi on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 06:59:13 AM EST
    it seems, totally unaware that that is exactly what they are doing! Talk about self-delusion. Or maybe it is just stupidity?

    Parent
    They don't care. (none / 0) (#33)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 08:31:00 AM EST
    Really, it's just that simple: they don't fking care.

    If called on it, they deflect, obfuscate or just don't answer.  Or, they will tell you it's just not the same, and you're the stupid one for not being able to see that.

    They do what they want to get what they want and simply do not care who it hurts or how much damage it does.

    They are perfectly willing to deal with the pushback because, ultimately, they got what they wanted, and they know people will eventually stop yammering about it.

    Parent

    i'm sorry (3.00 / 2) (#16)
    by linea on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 12:57:07 AM EST
    i hate the entire Dima Yakovlev v. Magnitsky Act diskusion but the russian adoption issue is a sincere issue for many good americans. it shouldn't be a punchline.

    just my feelings.

    Parent

    Not a joke, (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by KeysDan on Sun Sep 03, 2017 at 07:50:56 AM EST
    hence, not a punch line.

    Parent
    Speaking of "the boys" (none / 0) (#31)
    by Nemi on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 06:54:04 AM EST
    in an interview with The Guardian Salman Rushdie gives this description of "same":

    Rushdie recalls sitting next to [Donald Tr*mp] in Madison Square Garden many years ago, at a Crosby, Stills & Nash concert, accompanied by "the then much younger Ivanka and the disgusting boys" ...

    That's how I see them too, but it always surprises me how Ivanka seems to get a -- deservedly? I think not -- pass with most critics of the family.

    And not on the topic but to finish the Rushdie-quote above:

    ... "And the thing that surprised me was that he was on his feet and knew all the words to all the songs. Donald Trump knows the words to "Woodstock"?!"


    Parent
    I Liked Even Better This Quote (none / 0) (#34)
    by RickyJim on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 09:02:04 AM EST
    "A big chunk of white America has been unable to stand the fact that for eight years there was a black man in the White House. Couldn't stand it. And unfortunately Hillary was a bad candidate, and I think everybody underestimated, including me, the incredible hatred for her, including among leftwing people, young people and women."
    My opinion is that the hatred of Hillary is more widespread than that for Obama and I believe the polls back me up.

    Parent
    25 years of wingnut smears, lies ... (5.00 / 8) (#35)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 09:06:40 AM EST
    ... and conspiracy theories tend to have an effect - not to mention sexism.  You have to fight it, not give in to it.

    Parent
    Look (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 09:17:14 AM EST
    at Elizabeth Warren's numbers. She's below Hillary. Blaming Hillary for what is basically an institutional problem is going to do nothing to solve the problem.

    Parent
    If one doesn't like (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Nemi on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 01:38:17 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton I can see why one would "like even better" that small part of an otherwise long, interesting conversation. But Salman Rushdie also mentions that his very last tweet, before he stopped tweeting altogether, read

    Looking forward to President Hillary.

    So when he mentions that she unfortunately was a bad candidate my interpretation is that he refers to how the hatred against her build up through decades turned out to have too much of a negative effect than maybe anticipated and not that she was bad as in unqualified or the tiresome, endlessly repeated "flawed", "with baggage", "didn't bring out enthusiasm".

    Parent

    Jeralyn many thanks for the Rolling Stones clip (none / 0) (#10)
    by hilts on Sat Sep 02, 2017 at 05:58:29 PM EST
    In response, I'd like to offer one of my favorite performances by The Who. This comes from The Who Live at Hull  

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xApvvkVPUxY

    @Anne Just when you thought Trump couldn't say anything more idiotic, he does. The man is a knuckle dragging neanderthal and hopefully, Mueller's investigation will lead to his removal from the White House.

    Dreamers lose protection (none / 0) (#37)
    by MKS on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 10:45:50 AM EST
    to placate "the base."  The "base" sounds like fairly hideous people to me.

    They are deplorable (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 11:28:30 AM EST
    We are seeing more and more Hillary was right. Too bad being right wasn't enough to fight off the Russians and all the other crap.

    Parent
    Dark Days (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 03:24:38 PM EST
    I cling to what Jon Stewart said. If we make it through this we will know who we are.

    Parent
    @jorgeramosnews on Twitter (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 03:02:15 PM EST
    Has requested DACA stories to be retweeted to Trump since Twitter is a way to reach him. Had to take a break for awhile. Became too sad. But I shall return in a bit to continue retweeting. I would not have known he was hosting the stories though if that evil Hillary Clinton hadn't opened her damned mouth to let me know this was happening today. If only she would sit down and shut up.

    Truly a Labor Day of mourning though.

    I have a niece who is a Dreamer (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 03:43:33 PM EST
    (well, the wife of a first-cousin-once-removed [i.e., son of a first cousin] of my wife's, which is effectively a niece). She came here from Mexico, without papers, as a toddler. She is a graduate of a southern state university and has a Master's degree in urban planning. She is employed as the city planner for a midsize municipality in the Mid-Atlantic region. Why would this country -- why would anyone -- want to deport her? It's all so sick, and so stupid.

    Parent
    I wrote when Trump won (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by MKS on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 08:48:45 PM EST
    that I would hide Dreamers in my home.  After a couple of days, it did seem a melodramatic thing to say.

    Not anymore.  

    Parent

    If I knew (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 07:07:37 AM EST
    any I would too. When my husband and I went shopping in the Hispanic grocery store a while back we got looks and when we left I told my husband they probably thought we were from ICE or something. Sad that so many now have distrust and suspicion where there was none before.

    Parent
    My mother- and father-in-law were undocumented. (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 02:51:12 AM EST
    They were brought over the border in 1959-60 as migras by Texas agricultural interests and stayed, eventually settling in Corpus Christi and raising 10 children. They got the opportunity to become citizens during the 1986 immigration reform, and took advantage of it.

    I'm going to keep my own comments about DACA and immigration to a minimum, because the issue is very personal to my family and I'll go off on a rant right now if I get started. Suffice to say that the proposed change in policy is grievously myopic and terribly cruel.

    But then, Trump apparently revels in cruelty.

    Parent

    my state (none / 0) (#48)
    by linea on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 05:14:20 PM EST
    Washington Attorney General Bob Ferguson Vows to Sue Trump if He Ends DACA
    Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson on Monday promised to sue President Trump if he ends Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, the Obama-era program that protects some undocumented youth from deportation.


    Parent
    Well, yay (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 03:59:50 PM EST
    for Hillary putting it up there so maybe their message can make it to the press.

    This is absolutely the most evil thing he has done and that is saying a lot.

    Parent

    But once again, it takes the focus (none / 0) (#47)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 04:52:58 PM EST
    off Russia, and new and dreadful appointments and executive orders that always happen when the attention shifts to the latest horror.

    Plus, he's throwing this back at Congress and making them put their name on it; will The GOP caucus get on board legislation that will allow the Dreamers to stay? Can they get enough to be able to override Trump's veto? Will the GOP put something in the legislation to force Dems to fish or cut bait?

    Guess we'll see soon enough, unless this has been a giant head fake from Trump.

    Parent

    The focus (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 05:35:53 PM EST
    is never going to be completely off Russia. Ever since last year the story has ebbed and flowed and when something new comes out it is blasted everywhere. Everyday it's five or more horrible things.

    The GOP does not want to handle this hot potato so the only way I see this getting passed is by Ryan allowing it to come to a vote with majority Democrats. If he tries to blame Democrats he's going to look foolish. If the GOP can't pass something all by themselves or work with the Dems to cut out the free dumbers then it's going to be all on them.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 06:04:38 PM EST
    We can all walk and chew gum, cry while we fold laundry. Trump might do this for that reason, but that doesn't stop the investigations moving forward.

    Parent
    Trump knows Congress (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by MKS on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 08:50:40 PM EST
    will pass nada, zip, zero to help the Dreamers....

    That is the point.  He gets points with his rabid base, and he can tell the so-called centrists that it is all Congress' fault.

    Diabolically ghoulish.....Very sick.

    Parent

    Relief for "dreamers" supposedly has (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 04, 2017 at 08:57:20 PM EST
    something like 70% popular support. I refuse to abandon hope that this might conceivably mean something to Congress.

    Parent
    i think (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:50:26 AM EST
    this is pure theater.  he will likely accounce today he is not actually announcing anything today but MIGHT in 6 months if congress does not act.

    in other words nothing.

    the dreamers order will not go away.  as you say its way to popular.  

    this is just a sop to the craziest of his base so they will not notice that post Harvey the wall is gone.

    the really sad part is what it will do to the lives of these people and everyone whp cares about them by all the uncertainty and grief it will cause.

    Trump is a soleless piece of work.

    Parent

    Howdy, I saw this over at digby's place, (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 09:15:02 AM EST
    and immediately thought of you (my bold):

    An emotionally damaged president, a West Wing run by Batman henchmen, the Russian government, the Russian mafia (same thing?), money laundering, armed militia in body armor, "free speech" white nationalists waving Nazi and Confederate flags. It feels as if we are all extras in the next Joel and Ethan Coen film. We know somebody's going into the wood chipper. It's just a question of who and when. Maybe the country?

    Whole thing is worth a read.

    Parent

    Unfortunately, you turned out (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 10:46:10 AM EST
    to be wrong on this. I wish it were not so.

    Parent
    And I fear that what happens next will be (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 11:30:29 AM EST
    some version of what we saw in the repeal-and-replace debacle, you know, where the Republicans who had all been on the record as opposed to Obama's executive order when they couldn't undo it, now being faced with a chance to put up or shut up by either going with the overwhelming public support for DACA and crafting a legislative solution that maintains the program, or pandering to the ever-shrinking base by going in circles and "agonizing" over the lives to be affected, and effectively doing nothing, which in six short months from now means allowing to stand Trump's decision to rescind the order - and starting the deportation of some 800,000 people  - people who by all accounts are contributors to the economy, and not criminals and rapists.

    Sorry for the run-on sentence...emotion overtook me.  

    It's all just so unnecessarily cruel and petty, but given that this is who Trump is, not at all surprising.  I'd refer to him as a toad, but that would be unfair to toads.

    But, yeah - he does love him some Dreamers, doesn't he?  

    Parent

    im pretty sure (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 11:32:43 AM EST
    that was exactly what i predicted.

    6 months.  this will not happen.

    write that down.

    Parent

    to be clear (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 11:36:26 AM EST
    congress will not allow any of the described horrors to happen.

    just the uncertainty and the bullying.  2018 is an election year already energized.

    once more.  congress will not allow this in any way Trump seems to want.

    Parent

    The described horrors (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by vicndabx on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 02:27:51 PM EST
    are already happening.

    There's been a significant uptick in arrests overall and a more than double increase in arrests of those with no criminal history.

    People are getting arrested shopping with their kids, if the quote from this story is to be believed.    

    DACA people are already getting deported.

    Congress punted twice on immigration under Obama.  

    Parent

    For what it's worth, Ryan Grim at (none / 0) (#81)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 12:36:03 PM EST
    the Intercept agrees with you.  He thinks - and "sources" say - that Trump really didn't want to end the program, that if he did, he would have made the announcement himself and he wouldn't have given it a 6-month window.

    He also thinks it's possible that if nothing's been finalized in 6 months, he will quietly extend it.

    I guess we'll know soon enough how this is going to go; I think it will be a case of whether his hate for all-things-Obama will override his "love" for the Dreamers.

    I'm not really sure we can put money on it one way or the other.

    Parent

    but we are not talking (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 12:42:15 PM EST
    about russia.

    or even korea.

    Parent

    I for (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 01:15:33 PM EST
    one am glad we are not talking about Korea.

    Parent
    Maya Angelou (none / 0) (#123)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 11:11:11 AM EST
    when someone tells you who they are, believe them....

    Dear god, I hope you are right, BUT....

    Parent

    You'd hardly be blamed for changing ... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 05:28:48 AM EST
    ...  the channel with four minutes to go in the third quarter of last night's Texas A&M-UCLA contest at Pasadena's Rose Bowl, particularly since the Bruins were both trailing the Aggies by 34 at that point, 44-10, and looking hopelessly outclassed in every phase of the game.

    But if you did, you missed whay Fox Sports broadcasters called "an instant classic," a truly faerie tale ending which is destined to become part of the Rose Bowl stadium's fabled lore. And if you're an Aggie fan, that ending proved to be your very worst football nightmare come true.

    In one of the greatest comebacks in college football history, UCLA QB Josh Rosen threw for 292 yards and 4 TDs in the 4th quarter as the heretofore hapless Bruins suddenly roared to life, scoring on their final five possessions to stun Texas A&M and practically everyone else, 45-44 -- including the go-ahead score with only 43 seconds on the clock.

    It's already being dubbed "The Arroyo Miracle." Here's a 36-minute synopsis of last night's Fox Sports gamecast on YouTube. The UCLA rally starts at 21:45. It certainly left me slackjawed.

    Aloha.

    Hurricane Irma update (none / 0) (#65)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:29:14 AM EST
    Thanks ragebot for the excellent hurricane website Tropicaltidbits.  Irma is still 1,643 miles from my house and 250 miles east of Antigua.  They say it has jumped from 140 mph to 175 mph, which is unbelievable.  It will slow down when it hopefully hits the mountains of Hispaniola and Cuba, if it goes in that direction.  It's way too early for an accurate prediction.

     The frantic Florida TV weather people like to show big red blobs and speak of very high winds.  They're saying it could hit the Florida keys with 150 mph winds.  They don't know and I'm labeling them alarmists.  When it finally does get here I'm hoping for 100 mph winds or less, which is enough danger for me.

    I guess the problem is that there (none / 0) (#66)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:46:46 AM EST
    are always those people who don't feel alarmed enough, and decide that somehow, they can prevail over a hurricane even when they've just seen what happened to people in Texas who thought the same thing.

    But I also think there's nothing the media likes more than drama - it sometimes seems they are rooting for disaster.

    Looking at the map, I just hope Irma doesn't decide to head between Cuba and Florida and head on into the Gulf.  Not that it would be "better" if Irma hit Florida and headed up the east coast, but I can't even imagine the Gulf area taking another hit when they are just barely beginning to recover from Harvey.

    Keep us posted - and thanks to you and ragebot for the Tropical Tidbits site; lots of info there!

    Parent

    Speaking for myself only, Hurricane Iniki ... (none / 0) (#88)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 04:01:49 PM EST
    ... on Sept. 19, 1992 -- a Category 4 storm which devastated Kauai and West Oahu, and wreaked havoc over the rest of our island -- pretty much dissuaded me of whatever thoughts / delusions I might have otherwise harbored at the time about prevailing in a contest of wills with Mother Nature.

    In our east Honolulu neighborhood alone, the storm surge along the coastline -- one-half mile from our townhouse -- destroyed over 50 homes. And we were fortunate, because the wind gusts in Kuliouou Valley never exceeded 50 mph. It was the homes along the waterfront which bore the brunt of the surge, although waves washed across the highway and isolated our valley from the rest of the island for about 18 hours. Forty miles to the west of us along the Oahu's Waianae coast, the winds were close to 100 mph and ripped the roofs off of about one-quarter of the homes out there.

    But Kauai took a direct hit, as Iniki's eye passed right over the island with sustained winds of 165 mph on the south shore and 135 mph of the east shore, and occasional wind gusts of over 200 mph at the upper elevations in places like Koke'e. On the island's south shore, the entire resort community of Poipu was all but wiped off the map.

    As bad as Iniki was, we were lucky in the respect that it was an abnormally fast-moving hurricane, tracking in a northerly direction at 35 mph at the time it struck. And so the storm itself rolled right over the western half of the state and was over in about three hours. The morning was beautiful with clear blue skies (even as civil defense sirens started wailing away at 5:00 a.m.), and the afternoon turned dark and hellacious, but by 6:00 p.m. it was clearing up again.

    But it took Kauai the better part of four years to recover from those three hours of hell; 75% of the island's structures were severely damaged or destroyed. About half of Kauai's population of 48,000 was effectively displaced. Along with many other of my fellow legislative staff members, I had volunteered to be part of the Red Cross relief effort, and I was awestruck by what had happened on Kauai. I never want to see anything like that in person ever again. Miraculously, only six people died in the maelstrom.

    Graveyards are full of people who believed they knew better than the experts. When the state and local civil defense authorities tell you to evacuate in the face of an approaching monster hurricane like Irma, please heed their instructions and do so. You're really no match for 165 mph winds and 25-ft. storm surge, and there's no more helpless feeling than being at the mercy of the elements.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    stay safe (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:52:11 AM EST


    Parent
    Underground weather, (none / 0) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:52:59 AM EST
    tropical, shows all models along with a consensus of the models: turns a hard right and heads north toward Homestead, Miami and up to Mar a Lago. But, still early and still dangerous.

    Parent
    Fish, I'm worried about you! (none / 0) (#98)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 06:08:11 PM EST
    And I'm not a hurricane wuss.

    Parent
    I tend to agree about the alarmists (none / 0) (#108)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:31:15 PM EST
    It is especially bad with he horror of Houston still ongoing. There is no indication at all that it will be anywhere near Orlando, still I am told bottled water is sold out at all the local stores, and people at work are starting to freak out.

    The bottled water thing makes me insane. I guess if I had more than one person and dog to worry bout it would make sense. I can fill all the containers in the house with plenty of water 2 days before the storm and be good to go for a long time, at least as long as all the bottle water I would buy. But if I had a house full of people it would be different.

    Anyway, best we can do is keep an eye on it and do what seems best.

    Parent

    My Aspen people (none / 0) (#87)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 03:56:31 PM EST
    seem to be worried about my hurricane shutters, and when am I planning to put them up.  Mine are the Bahamas type of shutters that merely drop down and click in.  They are only there to stop flying palm fronds from breaking windows.  People think they are to stop flying coconuts, so I tell them if you have flying coconuts your roof is already gone and so are you.  

    Stay safe (none / 0) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 04:37:08 PM EST
    Fish.

    Parent
    will you evacuate (none / 0) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 04:42:05 PM EST
    if it is recommended?

    Parent
    Be ready to get out, Fishcamp. (none / 0) (#96)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 05:04:37 PM EST
    Hard to know where to go, but out of Florida. Evacuations tomorrow for tourists (you know it is bad, when the innkeepers/bars, are ready to turn down customers), later for residents.  

    Parent
    Yes you're right KeysDan, (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 07:37:51 PM EST
    and I'm packed and ready to leave, but they have the thing going all the way up the middle of Florida.  MIA is closing tomorrow, and they have just recently announced mandatory evacuation for residents, but they can't make us leave.  

    Yes Donald I do respect Mother Nature, but Irma is still 1,500 miles away and it will slow down after it crosses Puerto Rico, Hispaniola, and Cuba.  My generator is running fine, and I have a fire dept. three blocks away.  What could possibly go wrong?  My house is an overbuilt cement building with extremely heavy cement roof tiles.  It's a stilt house twenty feet above the water level.  I also have a VHS radio and everybody talks on channel 74.  

    I'll be fine and I hope you will too KeysDan.

    Parent

    Truly (none / 0) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:05:50 PM EST
    how do you evacuate the keys? I mean it must take literally hours and hours before you get to Miami. Do they at least make all the highways one way? I just can't imagine how you could get everybody out unless there was a notice of a couple of weeks.

    Parent
    They can't evacuate the keys entirely. (none / 0) (#112)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 09:38:31 PM EST
    Many people, like me refuse to leave.  About half of highway 1 down here is two lanes, one each way.  There are long stretches of four lane, but all 42 bridges are two lane.  I could probably get to Miami in my little boat faster than by car.  

    Parent
    Another problem with evacuation (none / 0) (#105)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 08:06:50 PM EST
    is they don't let you return home for several days.  This has happened every time they have a mandatory evacuation.  Then at some unknown time on the narrow road out of here they stop you and make you unhitch your boat along side the road, never to be seen again.  I'm staying right here.

    Parent
    Forget your troubles and enjoy (none / 0) (#111)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 09:09:07 PM EST
    this family in Ireland trying to get a bat out of their kitchen.

    Hysterical.

    The Irish... (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 09:44:00 PM EST
    The very people who sided with the English against we Scots at the battle of Colloden.  Nae nae lassie.  Freedom!

    Parent
    Sure and it was (none / 0) (#150)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 08:46:59 PM EST
    My Irish and English forebears, ye wildling.

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#139)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 03:59:30 PM EST
    In the very early dawn hours at San Francisco Int'l Airport about ten years ago, on the tail end of a business trip, I had just returned my rental car and boarded the shuttle bus which would take us to the main terminal and the various airline check-ins. As the bus suddenly lurched while pulling out into traffic, a startled bat flew out from the rear of the cabin where I presume it had been roosting, which then startled the rest of us as well. The poor thing was frantically flying up and down the aisle trying to find a way out, and it certainly didn't help that people were screaming in near-panic. The driver pulled over, opened the front door and the bat flew out, flapping its little wings to get away from the bus as fast as it could.

    Parent
    I have to remark... (none / 0) (#114)
    by desertswine on Tue Sep 05, 2017 at 10:41:54 PM EST
    on the beauty of the moonrise tonite.  There is smoke in the air from some forest fires to the west, and the moon was a beautiful pinkish-amber color as it rose over the Sandias, as large and as silent as a broken heart.  For ten full minutes I didn't give a thought to the disaster named trump nor to the floundering US.

    My LTE ran today (none / 0) (#138)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Sep 06, 2017 at 03:49:03 PM EST
    I went over to pick up my 97 y.o. mom for our monthly shopping expedition. Seniors like me or my mom, get 10% off at a market on the first Wednesday of every month.  First time I took her there, I said to the clerk, "If you don't believe she's 96, she can show you her driver's license."

    They no longer ask.  We also pick up the local weekly free newspaper, just for the trivia quiz inside, which we do as we drive back to her house.  She got me on Goya, the Spanish painter, I got her with Russian Roulette ("Popular gambling+large country=deadly game."), we both whiffed on Lichtenstein but we both knew what the chemical symbols Au, Pb, Fe and K were for.

    When I got to the house to pick her up, she mentioned that she had seen my LTE that morning.  I couldn't remember what it was about!  I didn't even remember sending it. It was pretty much the same stuff I post here. I won't bother with the link, I'll just quote the letter.  Note that the title the editor added is not at all accurate.

    Officials took a long time to respond to nurse firing [sic]

    The incident in which a Utah nurse was arrested for refusing to do an unlawful blood draw took place more than a month before the video went viral.

    After millions of people saw it, the mayor and police chief of Salt Lake City apologized to the nurse, and the officer was suspended.

    This seems like an obvious question, but I have not seen it asked. Why did they wait so long?

    Why did it take a public embarrassment for them to do what they should have done in July?

    (Repack Rider)
    North Korea (none / 0) (#165)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 08:55:57 AM EST
    is talking about another missle test.  not news.

    what could be big news is i think the may shoot this one down.

    its been being hinted at for weeks by various folks they have this ability and might do it.  i think they might do it.

    i hope there are cameras on Kim when it happens.

    Latest WSJ/NBC Poll (none / 0) (#166)
    by RickyJim on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 08:56:09 AM EST
    Lots of interesting stuff, for example:Lots of Interesting Stuff, for example:

    SUMMARY TABLE OF IMAGES - BY D/S (POSITIVE - NEGATIVE)
    TOTAL
    POSITIVE
    TOTAL
    NEGATIVE D/S
    Barack Obama ....................................................... 51 35 16
    George W. Bush ..................................................... 45 30 15
    Bernie Sanders ...................................................... 44 30 14
    The Democratic Party............................................. 34 40 -6
    Donald Trump ........................................................ 36 52 -16
    The Republican Party ............................................. 29 45 -16
    Hillary Clinton ......................................................... 30 53 -23
    TABLE RANKED BY % WHO SAY IMPORTANT
    Gun rights or gun control ........................................ 35
    Environmental issues ............................................. 30
    Immigration ............................................................. 28
    Abortion ................................................................... 17
    Legalization of drugs or penalties for drug use ...... 15
    Religious issues and issues of faith ....................... 15
    Gender equality issues ............................................ 12
    Gay rights ................................................................ 10
     All of these (VOL) ................................................. 6
     None of these (VOL) ............................................ 3
     Not sure ............................................................... 1


    "Gun rights and gun control" (none / 0) (#168)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 10:13:29 AM EST
    ...are opposing views, but lumped together.  That's a lot like saying 96% of voters preferred Hillary or Donald.  Not illuminating at all.

    Parent
    The Question Was "Is It Important?" (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by RickyJim on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 10:27:23 AM EST
    Not, "What side are you on?"  That only about a third of the country thinks it is an important issue is of some interest, I think.

    Parent
    But if you don't know how it (none / 0) (#174)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 12:53:48 PM EST
    breaks down, you can just make the number mean whatever you want it to.

    35% say gun rights OR gun control are important.  Is that 30% who think gun rights are important and 5% who think gun control is important?

    Or is it the other way around?  Or is it even?

    Now, maybe there is a better breakdown, but as you have presented it, it doesn't mean anything.

    Even those issues without an "or" don't mean anything.  "Abortion?"  Does that mean being against it, or being in favor of having the right to one?

    I know you really, really wanted these numbers to mean something, but as you have presented them, they don't.

    Parent

    Or, put another way (none / 0) (#176)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 01:03:43 PM EST
    ... of all the possible issues outside of foreign policy, national defense and the economy, this issue ranked the highest among respondents, with 41% saying it was important enough to affect their vote.

    Parent
    I don't even get the hoopla (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 10:30:57 AM EST
    over guns. There has been absolutely no effort to take anyone's guns away in my lifetime. I've owned the same handgun for 40 years. No one has tried to take it way. No one (other than a Canadian border agent) has asked about it. This is one of the biggest BS issues pushed by the right and the NRA. I have never had an issue buying ammunition. Never felt I could not go buy a new gun. Essentially in the last 40 years of adulthood, I have not at any single time, felt my second amendment rights were in danger. Now, my 4th, 5th and 15th amendment rights, that's another story.

    Parent
    Welp, off the top of my head, (none / 0) (#173)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 12:43:14 PM EST
    there was the AWB of 1994, there's been talk of banning semi-autos, a couple years ago the ATF recommended reclassifying "green tip" ammo such that it would no longer be available to the public. etc.

    Parent
    I'm pretty sure I can go out today (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 02:02:40 PM EST
    and buy enough AR-15s to start a war. At Cabela's no less.

    Parent
    Exactly the type of comment that supports (none / 0) (#178)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 02:50:11 PM EST
    the hoopla.

    Parent
    Centrist vs left, class vs identity (none / 0) (#172)
    by vicndabx on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 12:07:06 PM EST
    I encourage allies to learn our history so we can understand where the problem with the electorate comes from.  To wit, here's an excellent article IMO on understanding that which plagues the "centrist" vs. the "left" divide.

    The way forward is not in focus primarily on class, rather the reenergizing of that big tent coalition through ideas & plans that will address individual grievances that impact those within the coalition.  

    Good article (none / 0) (#175)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    I don't think a lot of people really understand or want to understand what went on last November.

    Parent
    I will never understand this man (none / 0) (#179)
    by CST on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 03:16:59 PM EST
    But could we possibly actually be seeing the "Trump Pivot"?

    Say it with me - medicare for all.

    Imagine if his base actually got behind that one.

    Somehow I find it unsurprising that Schumer and Pelosi seem to "get" this man better than Ryan and McConnell.  He's just another rich, conceited, @sshole from NYC.  Schumer should be used to that at least, and I doubt the San Fransisco rich, conceited, @ssholes are much different.

    Schumer (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 01:44:57 AM EST
    has known Trump for a long time and probably knows where the bodies are buried so to speak. So it was no surprise to me that he got a deal out of Trump. He probably just told him that if he signed onto this deal it would be awesome and flattered him.

    Parent
    I don't think so CST, not a pivot (none / 0) (#187)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 07:11:31 AM EST
    I view Trump as our family member who has a similar personality issue now. IMO, he feels most alive amid chaos and he's going to get some positive strokes from his haters too for this. He's going to love this for a bit. He was really suffering, But it will grow old. Then he needs some chaos, and he'll stab the Democrats hard in the back.

    I hope Dem leaders have some psychological consultants. They have a window right now, and he's afraid (right now) of "the people" if DACA is destroyed. The window will close though. We need to get as much done as we can before he decides he has to pivot again for attention.

    Parent

    Totally unsurprising... (none / 0) (#188)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 08:42:58 AM EST
    social circles wise, Trump is a much better match with Schumer & Pelosi than McConnell & Ryan. Schumer has been hitting Trump & Family up for their dirty money since 1996.

    Parent
    I worked a luncheon once (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by CST on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 09:09:51 AM EST
    Where Chuck (hitting people up for money) gave a speech.  

    He was the epitome of a smarmy sounding politician, pretending with a bunch of wealthy people like he wasn't use to that kind of thing, when it was abundantly clear that it was right up his alley, but he's patting himself on the back for being a Democrat and helping the poors.  There were 5 senators there, and they all spoke, but the absurdity of Chuck's manufactured populism amidst all that wealth is definitely what stood out.  I guess it's better than a 47% speech ala Romney.

    Somehow this doesn't surprise me at all, and frankly, reminds me a bit of Trump.

    Although I also agree that Trump will turn on him as soon as the whim to do so hits him.

    Parent

    You nailed it... (none / 0) (#190)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 09:25:57 AM EST
    "epitome of smarmy", "absurd manufactured populism"...that's our Chuckie!

    Parent
    i just saw IT (none / 0) (#180)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 07, 2017 at 03:34:20 PM EST
    go and see it.

    Here's one of my favorite statue/sculptures, (none / 0) (#192)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 11:03:46 AM EST
    Here's one of my favorite statue/sculptures, in downtown Omaha, at the Lewis & Clark landing, along Omaha's Missouri River Walkway.

    Both Lewis and Clark, of course, were slave holders.

    Probably should take this monument down.

    So was Washington (5.00 / 3) (#193)
    by CST on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 11:20:12 AM EST
    There's a huge difference between honoring people for their other deeds who also owned slaves, and honoring people for the action of defending slavery.

    Maybe we shouldn't honor any slave owners, but that's not the conversation about monuments that's actually happening today unless you're Donald Trump and deliberately trying to conflate things.

    Personally I wouldn't mind seeing something like this in the future.

    Parent

    Ok, fair enough. (none / 0) (#194)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 11:54:58 AM EST


    Parent
    Labor Day Weekend Open Thread | 200 comments (200 topical)